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Faction Warfare is going downhill fast.

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oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 15:58:00 - [1] http://fwstats.eve-ic.net/ and I mean literally "downhill" - look at the graphs for number of players. The whole wardec mess has meant that (at least for Caldari) many of the best corps and FCs have gone. The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. If the lines on the graph continue their trend, FW doesn't have long. CCP need to sort this out fairly quickly, or "Empyrean Age" is gonna mean nothing at all.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:00:00 - [2] Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? - DesuSigs
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:02:00 - [3] Edited by: oilio on 25/08/2008 16:02:30 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? I LIKE FW!!!! What is bothering me is that the graphs show far more players leaving than joining. IF THAT CONTINUES, FW IS DEAD!!! I DON'T WANT FW TO DIE!!! So CCP need to make it more attractive - so that we keep players in FW.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:05:00 - [4] It doesnt have lasting value since you do the same thing every time. Join a blob. Get killed or kill something. Usually both. But its a start. CCP can develop it and make it more interesting. --- Originally by: Roguehalo Can you nano Titans?
Zephyr Rengate dearg doom	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:06:00 - [5] On a side note: EVE IS DEAD!!
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:06:00 - [6] Originally by: oilio I LIKE FW!!!! What is bothering me is that the graphs show far more players leaving than joining. IF THAT CONTINUES, FW IS DEAD!!! I DON'T WANT FW TO DIE!!! So CCP need to make it more attractive - so that we keep players in FW. That wasn't directed at you personally. I see it a lot in militia chat. Drives me nuts. People leaving is a problem, and I really don't want FW to die, it's the only PvPing I do. But CCP is never going to reward you for participating. FW is basically consensual PvP, paying you to participate crosses the line into WoW in space. Changing other mechanics, like the wardecs, might be a good idea. They may also choose to reward plexing. - DesuSigs
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:08:00 - [7] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? I don't know, how about a reason (apart from "fight for the sake of the fight") for both you and said targets to fight ? Yeah, there's plenty of PvP to be had in FW. But because it's meaningless, the "uuuh, shiny" effect is waning fast. Unless they introduce some MOTIVATION into it (i.e. tangible benefits for doing well and hindering the enemy from doing well), it won't be long before most people decide that FW is not for them afterall. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:12:00 - [8] Understood Crumplecorn. I don't quite know what CCP need to do to make FW more attractive, but I think it's a great asset to Eve. Problem is, it only works if you have lots of people involved. If numbers dwindle too much then all those great battles are going to stop, and that would be a DAMN SHAME in my opinion. Anyway, the purpose of the topic was to appeal to CCP to look at FW and try to make it more attractive to players... somehow. The wardec thing would definitely be a start, I think.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:13:00 - [9] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 25/08/2008 16:14:47 Originally by: oilio stuff Agreed. I would hate to see FW die. And you are right, if the numbers drop below a critical mass, it will. But I don't see what can be done other than turning it into completely lossless (or maybe even profitable) PvP. Originally by: Akita T I don't know, how about a reason (apart from "fight for the sake of the fight") for both you and said targets to fight ? Yeah, there's plenty of PvP to be had in FW. But because it's meaningless, the "uuuh, shiny" effect is waning fast. Unless they introduce some MOTIVATION into it (i.e. tangible benefits for doing well and hindering the enemy from doing well), it won't be long before most people decide that FW is not for them afterall. If people want 'meaning' in their PvP, that's what 0.0 is for. The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. When you want a reason to fight, other than fighting for the sake of it, go join an alliance. Anyway, if the idea of fighting for a player-built and player-run alliance doesn't draw people, what NPC-based objectives possibly could? - DesuSigs
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:14:00 - [10] Linkage Stuff like this... from the "live devblog" that never happened. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:14:00 - [11] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate On a side note: EVE IS DEAD!! No, that wasn't my suggestion at all. I put the link to the stats graph which clearly shows continually declining player numbers. This isn't opinion - this is fact - shown by the graphs.
Kulmid The Elear FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:15:00 - [12] CCP should just make it so that if you war dec a corp in the Caldari militia you are then a possible target to the entire Caldari militia but cannot fire upon anyone but the corp you dec'd unless fired upon first. You would think CCP would have added things like, "Amarr", "CCP", "Microwarpdrive", etc. to their forum dictionary.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:16:00 - [13] I don't see the problem here, we wanted no hassle easy to get into pvp. We got tedious blob warfare in empire space. The way I see it, the more people leave, the more attactive it is as the smaller and easier the gangs are to manage without omgwtfbbq kills and laghelldeath.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Kulmid CCP should just make it so that if you war dec a corp in the Caldari militia you are then a possible target to the entire Caldari militia but cannot fire upon anyone but the corp you dec'd unless fired upon first. The problem with wardec solutions like this is that you could end up with corps hiding from wardecs in the militia, since being the militia has very little effect on highsec operations. - DesuSigs
Grarr Dexx Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:18:00 - [15] You know, PVP just isn't rewarding at all. It's a way to blow off steam, not a way to gain 'rewards'.
Kelli Flay	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:20:00 - [16] I am not sure I buy the "FW is dying because the rewards are non existent" argument. What I am seeing are the people leaving are those who just wanted to try it and those who were new to PvP and didn't realize how difficult pvp was going to be on their wallets. The PvErs went back to high sec. This is evident because when you get into a pvp encounter in FW now, it is typically a much more difficult fight than it was a month ago. In other words, the players staying always knew what they are doing and probably won't be leaving anytime soon. Then again, I agree that FW needs to be fleshed out more if it is going to be successful in the long run. All I am saying is the recent loss of players may be from the noobs leaving because of the lack of isk in their wallets after a month of getting blown up over and over.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 25/08/2008 16:21:55 Originally by: 5pinDizzy I don't see the problem here, we wanted no hassle easy to get into pvp. We got tedious blob warfare in empire space. The way I see it, the more people leave, the more attactive it is as the smaller and easier the gangs are to manage without omgwtfbbq kills and laghelldeath. Except on weekends the blobs are smallish, lagless and fairly fast moving. On a related note, it is possible that there is a core of people in FW who (like me) have no intention of dropping it, so the numbers will drop to a base figure as the people attracted by the novelty leave, but it will never completely die. Originally by: Kelli Flay All I am saying is the recent loss of players may be from the noobs leaving because of the lack of isk in their wallets after a month of getting blown up over and over. Another interesting possibility. It's amazing that people go broke in FW. It's not like you need big or well fitted ships. - DesuSigs
Joe Starbreaker AnTi.	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:21:00 - [18] A lot of people just signed up to check it out. They checked it out, and obviously not everybody found it was for them. It's no surprise that FW will settle on a normal level of participation somewhat lower than in the first few weeks. Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
Winterblink Body Count Inc. The Requiem	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:21:00 - [19] What, the respect isn't enough reward? :D warp drive active \| nature vraie
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:22:00 - [20] There is a reward all right, its called loot, you just don't see alot of it when blobbing... Support the introduction of well thought out Amarr solutions! I believe rats should avoid you if you have high standing with them.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. [...] Anyway, if the idea of fighting for a player-built and player-run alliance doesn't draw people, what NPC-based objectives possibly could? And here I was, thinking that the whole idea of FW was that people that would never bother GETTING RECRUITED into 0.0 alliances and moving to live there would be able to try their hand at PvP objectives alongside many other players who think the same... nowhere did the terms "meaningless" or "anything-free" come into mind. Hmm, what NPC objectives possibly could ? Well, how about winning and losing LP for the militia corp as your FLEET wins/loses FW plexes, not just missions so far away nobody actually bothers doing ? Or, heck, the ability to request and turn in FW missions remotely, from within enemy territory, without even needing to dock ? What about militia-corp-only LP shop items that are actually desirable, as opposed to the same run-of-the-mill items you get in all regular LP stores ? How about FW-only obtainable privileges, like, say, highsec moon miners or highsec moonmining charters ? How about SERIOUS multipliers for all possible rewards depending on your empire's occupancy status ? The more systems your empire holds, the higher the offensive multipliers... the lower number of systems you hold, the higher the defensive multipliers... You know, a REASON to actually FIGHT the enemy except the fact "he's the enemy". _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:31:00 - [22] TBH I would expect this kind of falloff regardless of whether they were passing out rewards or not. Normal "Ooo Shiney" expansion rush followed by the inevitable decline in numbers as people get bored with it and go back to other stuff. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:35:00 - [23] CCP should just make all racial members, of warring factions and members of Corps/Alliances in Empire space, red and flashy to each other. Give players the option to "turn-coat", so as to support the faction they choose. This should apply to anyone not in a 0.0 alliance, as 0.0 players are not part of empire. 0.0 Alliances should have hugh tarrifs applied when trading with the Empire factions, in order to support the particular Empire faction's war machine. That would be true and consequential, (an EVE favorite), FW.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:38:00 - [24] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 25/08/2008 16:39:28 Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. [...] Anyway, if the idea of fighting for a player-built and player-run alliance doesn't draw people, what NPC-based objectives possibly could? And here I was, thinking that the whole idea of FW was that people that would never bother GETTING RECRUITED into 0.0 alliances and moving to live there would be able to try their hand at PvP objectives alongside many other players who think the same... nowhere did the terms "meaningless" or "anything-free" come into mind. Because getting objectives handed to you is the same thing as empire building, amirite? Fighting for an NPC corp/alliance/whatever is always going to be meaningless. Originally by: Akita T Hmm, what NPC objectives possibly could ? 1. Well, how about winning and losing LP for the militia corp as your FLEET wins/loses FW plexes, not just missions so far away nobody actually bothers doing ? Or, heck, the ability to request and turn in FW missions remotely, from within enemy territory, without even needing to dock ? 2. What about militia-corp-only LP shop items that are actually desirable, as opposed to the same run-of-the-mill items you get in all regular LP stores ? 3. How about FW-only obtainable privileges, like, say, highsec moon miners or highsec moonmining charters ? How about SERIOUS multipliers for all possible rewards depending on your empire's occupancy status ? The more systems your empire holds, the higher the offensive multipliers... the lower number of systems you hold, the higher the defensive multipliers... You know, a REASON to actually FIGHT the enemy except the fact "he's the enemy". 1&2. Reward glorified mission whoring. Great idea for a PvP mechanic. When all the pure PvPers who keep bothering the plex fleets leave, FW can finally take its place as another variety of low sec missioning eh? 3. Tie up yet more industry/research resources in completely unrelated mechanics? Great. These are all basically mission objectives/rewards. There would still be no meaning to FW. It would just add an element of a grind to it. - DesuSigs
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:46:00 - [25] I dont know if you read CCP's comments on faction warfare, but they expected a large drop in players after the novelty wore off, so I don't think they will be alarmed. Faction warfare is (or was) fun if you're just looking to get more PVP experience on an ad-hoc basis. It isn't a viable playstyle longer term though in terms of sustainability since like you say the ISK rewards from enemy loot/salvage do not match the risks. Especially when there's the issue of fleets of non-faction players in salvaging/looting noobships following all FW fleets around stealing the loot from all wrecks and being protected by sentries from any reprisals. Thats one element that sucks, though my understanding is that you're not supposed to make any real ISK from FW anyway - it is an ISK sink like most PVP, and CCP will probably be quite pleased about the impact it is having. Another issue of FW is the fact that there are some abusers of the spirit of FW in the militias. Wardeccing other corps/FCs/people in the militia, trolling in channels and generally being idiots and undermining any credible structure forming in the militias. These are just two things that I personally loathed about FW and a large part of why I left it. I'm sure many others share my views as the initial novelty wears off and the issues become apparent. This doesn't mean it'll die - plenty of folks will be hardcore FW folks "warts and all" and good luck to them. Re-examine the stats a year down the line before you start saying "FW is dying/dead".
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:48:00 - [26] Edited by: Le Skunk on 25/08/2008 16:49:56 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Well as many people pointed out - consequence free PVP is dull as dishwater. People who were being advised to "buy 20 t1 insured frigates and go out and fight!" soon realised It didnt matter one jot if they went AFK in the middle of a fleet fight, as they would just hop back into another ships at no cost Killing the enemy, meant similiarly little, as they would only drop crap loot, which would be stolen by your gang mates anyway. It was difficult to really work up a "hate" against the enemy - despite strained humerous attempts to call each other funny names - as all you stood to gain was a name over a system which meant nothing Also - CCP gave out a lot of free game time on accounts (as i said at the time) to falsely bolster the impact of FW. As this time ran out - people didnt bother to resub. This combined with the dreaded LAG (which was obviously going to be a fctor in Faction Warfare and which was strangely missing for the promotional material CCP sent out to sucker people into it) SKUNK
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:49:00 - [27] Edited by: Highwind Cid on 25/08/2008 16:49:58 Originally by: Zephyr Rengate On a side note: EVE IS DEAD!! No..NO it can't be aglhhhhWTFgdfBBQfds9000f%3spuddinpops*69GTFOdn[garmingj&%$3mnano5523level4gjketoomuchiskaghg!!1111!
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:50:00 - [28] Edited by: Akita T on 25/08/2008 16:51:38 Originally by: Crumplecorn Because getting objectives handed to you is the same thing as empire building, amirite? Because fighting in a fleet with an opposing fleet is the same wether your alliance leader or a non-descript NPC agent gives you the objectives. Quote: Fighting for an NPC corp/alliance/whatever is always going to be meaningless. Playing the game is meaningless, if you want to get existential. Quote: 1&2. Reward glorified mission whoring. Great idea for a PvP mechanic. When all the pure PvPers who keep bothering the plex fleets leave, FW can finally take its place as another variety of low sec missioning eh? Isn't EVERYTHING in EVE about getting and spending ISK ? At least this way you get a chance to earn those ISK WHILE doing something you'd now usually just spend ISK to engage in. Quote: Tie up yet more industry/research resources in completely unrelated mechanics? Great. You can't do that now at all, it's merely yet another way FW participants can gain ISK with. Besides, didn't you just grumble something about empire building a few sentences ago ? Quote: These are all basically mission objectives/rewards. There would still be no meaning to FW. Hmm. Are we actually working on the same definition of the word "MEANING" here anyway ? Meaning. Purpose. A goal. Something you desire and set forth to acheive. PvP is the instrument you use to do that, not the goal. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.08.25 16:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Crumplecorn But CCP is never going to reward you for participating. FW is basically consensual PvP, paying you to participate crosses the line into WoW in space. I don't see why rewards would be a bad thing, so long as they can't be used outside of FW, or the 'reward' is you don't get the penalty of being on the losing side. All CCP has to do is make occupancy actually mean something useful to get people more interested. Also the wardec mess does need an in-game solution. But I've already said all I'm going to say on that in other threads. ---
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:04:00 - [30] Edited by: oilio on 25/08/2008 17:04:48 Maybe have deadspace areas with valuable resources that can only be accessed by militia who's faction control the system? The wardec thing is a mess, of course, and discourages corps (especially good ones, with good FCs) from joining FW. Thinking about it... If there was something really good to be gained from being in a militia that controls territory, people might flock back to FW in droves. I really hope CCP can work something out, because FW looked like it was going to be a great alternative to all the political hassles of nullsec alliance warfare - rather than some flash-in-the-pan sideshow. This could still be so. I really hope CCP are looking at FW and how it might be boosted.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Le Skunk Well as many people pointed out - consequence free PVP is dull as dishwater. People who were being advised to "buy 20 t1 insured frigates and go out and fight!" soon realised It didnt matter one jot if they went AFK in the middle of a fleet fight, as they would just hop back into another ships at no cost Killing the enemy, meant similiarly little, as they would only drop crap loot, which would be stolen by your gang mates anyway. It was difficult to really work up a "hate" against the enemy - despite strained humerous attempts to call each other funny names - as all you stood to gain was a name over a system which meant nothing Also - CCP gave out a lot of free game time on accounts (as i said at the time) to falsely bolster the impact of FW. As this time ran out - people didnt bother to resub. This combined with the dreaded LAG (which was obviously going to be a fctor in Faction Warfare and which was strangely missing for the promotional material CCP sent out to sucker people into it) SKUNK If you don't like consequence free PvP ofc you will be bored by FW. However: 1. FW was supposed to be an easy introduction i.e. it is supposed to be largely consequence free, and if there is only a small demographic looking for that, then FW is doomed anyway. 2. Given the number of people I hear whining about going broke, it obviously isn't consequence free for some. 3. You could always fly expensive ships to increase the risk. Many people do. Killing the enemy is what the mechanic is there to allow you to do. Just easy kills. Greater meaning can be found elsewhere. Hating the enemy, again, it's about easy PvP, not fighting for a real purpose. Also, if you are Gal militia, the squids give you plenty of reasons to hate them. - DesuSigs
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:25:00 - [32] Maybe CCP could extend FW to allow claiming of 0.0 systems for the various Empires _______ People like that don't have friends just temporary common interests.
Cruel Crow	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:26:00 - [33] I'm going to say this once more I cant help that people can understand this FW Should have been started when EVE Went live
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Cruel Crow I'm going to say this once more I cant help that people can understand this FW Should have been started when EVE Went live Fair enough, but it wasn't. It was started a couple of months ago. What we need now is a mechanism to KEEP PEOPLE IN FW!
Berand The Scope	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:30:00 - [35] People leaving FW was probably inevitable around this time. At first it was new and shiny, so everyone wanted to try it. Now that everyone has tried it, a portion are going to filter back to 0.0, or piracy, or high sec corps, or what have you. In other words, the numbers were artificially high to begin with simply due to the novelty. A downswing as the novelty wore off was unavoidable.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:31:00 - [36] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Crumplecorn Because getting objectives handed to you is the same thing as empire building, amirite? Because fighting in a fleet with an opposing fleet is the same wether your alliance leader or a non-descript NPC agent gives you the objectives. Or whether you have no objectives at all. Originally by: Akita T Quote: Fighting for an NPC corp/alliance/whatever is always going to be meaningless. Playing the game is meaningless, if you want to get existential. Blah. Null point. You know what I meant. Sandbox Vs. Themepark. Originally by: Akita T Quote: 1&2. Reward glorified mission whoring. Great idea for a PvP mechanic. When all the pure PvPers who keep bothering the plex fleets leave, FW can finally take its place as another variety of low sec missioning eh? Isn't EVERYTHING in EVE about getting and spending ISK ? At least this way you get a chance to earn those ISK WHILE doing something you'd now usually just spend ISK to engage in. Then why not make ISK rewards for all PvP in the game? Then no-one would ever have to grind! All we'd need to do then it all gather in FD and we'd basically be on the test server. Originally by: Akita T Quote: Tie up yet more industry/research resources in completely unrelated mechanics? Great. You can't do that now at all, it's merely yet another way FW participants can gain ISK with. Besides, didn't you just grumble something about empire building a few sentences ago ? But, if implemented, you will be able to do it, but those who would want to take advantage of such things as more than just a reward for plexing would be forced to take part in the unrelated FW mechanic to get them. Just like how highsec POSes are tied into mission whoring for standing (for all those mission ***s who run POSes in their free time I suppose?). Originally by:** Akita T Quote: These are all basically mission objectives/rewards. There would still be no meaning to FW. Hmm. Are we actually working on the same definition of the word "MEANING" here anyway ? Meaning. Purpose. A goal. Something you desire and set forth to acheive. PvP is the instrument you use to do that, not the goal. Being told 'go kill squids FOR THE FEDERATION!!!!eleven' by an NPC is no different than 'here, have a free wardec'. Adding rewards won't change it. PvP is the instrument for objectives which are found out in 0.0. In lowsec, you do it for the lulz. - DesuSigs
Matthias Reid	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:32:00 - [37] Faction Warfare is fine, and exactly as advertised. No strings PVP. If u come home and got 30 mins to waste before dinner u can hop on and try and kill some stuff. It doesnt take the dedication and foresight of a 0.0 operation. But its been said verbattim, that if you want your PVP to mean something and have a point and a tangible reward, Join a Player corp in a 0.0 alliance. Giving FW pilots free shit and rewards is a slap in the face to every player empire that is and has ever been. The guys out in 0.0, whom fight every day to protect their space dont get any special reward from CCP. Why would it be in anyway reasonable to give these weekend warrior types. Your reward is the the PVP.
Cruel Crow	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Berand People leaving FW was probably inevitable around this time. At first it was new and shiny, so everyone wanted to try it. Now that everyone has tried it, a portion are going to filter back to 0.0, or piracy, or high sec corps, or what have you. In other words, the numbers were artificially high to begin with simply due to the novelty. A downswing as the novelty wore off was unavoidable. You said it NOVELTY EVE Is a Sandbox and always will be. The only thing CCP could do is improve in the system and graphics. Once they break EVE it will die like so many other MMO This is possible FW still should been started in the beginning!
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:48:00 - [39] FW really should be the progression path from mission running. Mission running should be the "training" for combat pilots. Those who want to continue on from it should join the militia. It's the natural progression. FW should have earning potential similar to L4-L5 missions paid in both isk and "war booty", if your faction is "winning" (i.e. gaining more systems than they are losing). From a RP point of view, this makes perfect sense. Capsuleers are being hired by the factions as "Privateers". They should be paying them well when they get results. The idea of FW should be to move combat pilots from mostly NPC combat when they are noobish (missions) to mostly PvP combat when they are more experienced (FW). They should then have the option to jump to alliance warfare, with a good deal of PvP experience under their belts, or stick with FW if they don't play enough to be a valuable member of an alliance. It's a progression path that makes sense and would serve the long term interests of the game well. I hope CCP considers it.
Pan Dora Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:48:00 - [40] CCP presented FW as an 'introdutory' PVP. Something you join when you want to try your hand in pvp but dont want(/its not prepared to del with) all the responsabilities of a 0.0 sovereignity, simple piracy or mercenary work (defense of territory, security status, wardec costs, ...). In this sense CCP planed FW to be transitory, something you do for some time and then move along. This said lots of people joined FW, now lots of people are leaving FW. ITS WORKING AS INTENDED. ITS NOT BROKEN, DONT NEED A FIX. The issue will become real when people stop to leave FW. My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:49:00 - [41] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine FW really should be the progression path from mission running. 10/10 I would rage if it wasn't so obvious. - DesuSigs
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:55:00 - [42] Originally by: Cruel Crow I'm going to say this once more I cant help that people can understand this FW Should have been started when EVE Went live right. but it wasn't. got anything constructive to bring to this? This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 25/08/2008 17:57:45 i really don't understand why people are so rabidly anti- the idea of getting semi-decent rewards for FW. I rarely see anyone asking to get rich, but what's so terrible about there actually being some kind of payout for taking part? even if it's something like 1k LP for each kill or something, there seem to be a lot of people (myself included) who would like to get some kind of reward for taking part. again, why's that so awful? This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 17:57:00 - [44] CCP really should have seen the war deccing thing coming. War decing a corp in the militia should have the same consequences as deccing a corp that is in a player alliance. It's the same thing. Deccing a corp in the militia should also make you subject to NPC Navy attack in that faction's high-sec space. You have, in effect, declared your corp/alliance to be an enemy of that faction by deccing their militia.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 25/08/2008 17:57:45 i really don't understand why people are so rabidly anti- the idea of getting semi-decent rewards for FW. I rarely see anyone asking to get rich, but what's so terrible about there actually being some kind of payout for taking part? even if it's something like 1k LP for each kill or something, there seem to be a lot of people (myself included) who would like to get some kind of reward for taking part. again, why's that so awful? Risk-free PvP. - DesuSigs
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Berand People leaving FW was probably inevitable around this time. At first it was new and shiny, so everyone wanted to try it. Now that everyone has tried it, a portion are going to filter back to 0.0, or piracy, or high sec corps, or what have you. In other words, the numbers were artificially high to begin with simply due to the novelty. A downswing as the novelty wore off was unavoidable. This IMO. On a side note, Certain aspects of FW (such as capping Plexs) don't have any meaningful reward and generally are incredibly boring to do. I hope CCP expands on it soon. - Infectious -
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:13:00 - [47] The rewards of FW should be in-line with all EvE reward systems (except mission running). What do 0.0 corps get by defending their territories? Access to resources, that's what. What should the rewards of FW be? Access to resources, not ISK on a platter. You could simply put some high-quality 'roids in FW complexes that require ownership to mine, or simply make it possible to bump a system up in security level by securing the plexes (thus opening up the system to exploitation). Make it so that pirate activity can lower an adjacent system's sec level as well, and designate a number of high-sec systems from all empires that can be affected in this way. This makes it so that: FW players are playing to open up more systems for their empire. They are rewarded by the increase in mission agents and (relatively) safe mining opportunities. Pirates are fighting to keep low-sec free for them to exploit (via piracy), and to increase the amount of low-sec space.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Crumplecorn Risk-free PvP. If FW was a "pay for results" system it wouldn't be risk free. You could PvP your ass off and lose a bunch of ships and get no pay if your faction came out on the short end that week. It certainly wouldn't be higher risk than sitting on a .4 gate camp with a noobship parked on the other side to make sure nothing was coming that can kill you. People are going to position themselves for risk-free PvP no matter what. That isn't really an argument for making the militias a paid profession.
Haywoode Jablome State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:23:00 - [49] Edited by: Haywoode Jablome on 25/08/2008 18:23:18 Well, seeing this, they might just buff-beef-up FW, so I'm asking Santa CCP for: 1. Big fat juicy loot tables in FW, and with that I mean really BIG FAT JUICY WATERMELON like loot, as in > officer and deadspace thingies 2. Ludicrous amounts of ISK for conquering stuff 3. An insane Standing increase for the faction you do your things with 4. A new bread of ships only to be flown by the FW people. 5. Uber DD like weapons as in the trailer. 6... A truck load of hookers for ambulation as an reward for your honorable duties. (Garmon doesn't need them, because he is faithfull to his wive, so you can give me them to me)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:23:00 - [50] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine People are going to position themselves for risk-free PvP no matter what. That isn't really an argument against making the militias a paid profession. Yes, it is. People avoiding risk is one thing. Intentionally removing it is another. But making the rewards so dependant on performance that you can come out at a loss if your militia does badly is a good idea. It would cause epic turmoil in the militias when the minmaxers and part-timers cross each other. - DesuSigs
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:26:00 - [51] Originally by: Pan Dora CCP presented FW as an 'introdutory' PVP. Something you join when you want to try your hand in pvp but dont want(/its not prepared to del with) all the responsabilities of a 0.0 sovereignity, simple piracy or mercenary work (defense of territory, security status, wardec costs, ...). In this sense CCP planed FW to be transitory, something you do for some time and then move along. This said lots of people joined FW, now lots of people are leaving FW. ITS WORKING AS INTENDED. ITS NOT BROKEN, DONT NEED A FIX. The issue will become real when people stop to leave FW. My point was that FW is losing players and IF the graph continues at its present rate of decline, FW will be dead before long. You say the issue will become real if people STOP leaving FW? So by your logic, FW will be a success when no-one plays it anymore? WORKING AS INTENDED!!! - yeah, alright, but the numbers are declining.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Reaver One Pirates are fighting to keep low-sec free for them to exploit (via piracy), and to increase the amount of low-sec space. This isn't the purpose of FW. It doesn't pit militias against pirates. It pits them against each other. Putting tasty resources in the plexes that require ownership to exloit is also a decent idea, however, how do you divvy them up? If you have some ABC ore in there, is it just a free-for-all until it's all gone? That would pretty much suck, tbh.
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:42:00 - [53] i haven't got into fw yet with my combat guy but my understanding was FW is sopost to be a noob entry too learn combat, on a meduim scope. its not too be a grand scale combat zone like 00 systems are but a starter at learning about combat for the weaker players who are new at it.. for now thats what it is, later it can be more.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 18:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Crumplecorn But making the rewards so dependant on performance that you can come out at a loss if your militia does badly is a good idea. It would cause epic turmoil in the militias when the minmaxers and part-timers cross each other. Yeah, it wouldn't make any sense as a game mechanic or with the back-story to make it just pay-for-participation. It would have to be pay-for-results, or, among other things, the wise-guys would exploit the hell out of it. There should be some combination of pay for enemy kills (individual) and pay for the achievement of larger, militia level objectives. Set the bar so that you'd need a pretty healthy k/d ratio to make a living at the individual level, and the big payoff (comparable to spending the same amount of game time grinding L4s) come from the achievement of militia level objectives (systems capped). This would hardly be "risk free". It's just a framework for making a living through PvP. If you're good at it, and if your militia is well organized and achieving something, you can make a lot. If you suck, and your militia sucks, you'll go backwards.
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:00:00 - [55] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine This isn't the purpose of FW. It doesn't pit militias against pirates. It pits them against each other. Wouldn't have to be direct competition...could be that a pirate organization simply checks a box to indicate that that's what they are, and then all kills they make create "destabilization" in the region...thus weakening the security level of local systems. To balance it out, make it so that when a pirate attacks someone in low-sec, they get aggro from the victim and from any militia members within a given radius (so that militias can "patrol" a sector to prevent pirate attacks). Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Putting tasty resources in the plexes that require ownership to exloit is also a decent idea, however, how do you divvy them up? If you have some ABC ore in there, is it just a free-for-all until it's all gone? That would pretty much suck, tbh. It would, but I really hate to see any game mechanics that divvy up loot or resources for players...too soft. You want the resources, bring the tools to get 'em out.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:13:00 - [56] Originally by: oilio Edited by: oilio on 25/08/2008 16:02:30 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? I LIKE FW!!!! What is bothering me is that the graphs show far more players leaving than joining. IF THAT CONTINUES, FW IS DEAD!!! I DON'T WANT FW TO DIE!!! So CCP need to make it more attractive - so that we keep players in FW. Well, alternatively, FW players need to make it more attractive then flying around in 30-40 man blobs Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:18:00 - [57] Originally by: Reaver One To balance it out, make it so that when a pirate attacks someone in low-sec, they get aggro from the victim and from any militia members within a given radius (so that militias can "patrol" a sector to prevent pirate attacks). Not only that, but make it so sentries fire on them if they come close and everyone can attack them for the next 15 minutes without security status hits. Oh, wait.... That already exists. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Reaver One Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:39:00 - [58] Originally by: Cpt Branko Not only that, but make it so sentries fire on them if they come close and everyone can attack them for the next 15 minutes without security status hits. Oh, wait.... That already exists. I'm talking about automatic two-way red flashy lift-your-skirts aggro, not just a timer.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:42:00 - [59] A change I would like to see is real map change - if the Gallnete capture a system it shows on the map not as an "occupation" but as a Gallente Federation system. Also if an enemy low sec system that borders high sec is captured all high sec systems surrounding the low sec system go down a sec status. 0.5 becomes a 0.4 and then you can capture the new 0.4 system and make some previously seemingly secure system lose sec status. Conquering low sec stations and cutting off access agents and faciltiies among the faction folk (and not just militia folk either). But I can dream...
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:44:00 - [60] Originally by: Cpt Branko Seriously, now, FW gave you so much (targets, no sec losses, etc) and you're still whining? FW could use more financial rewards, of course - but that's it. If you look at my OP, I am not "whining" that FW doesn't give me enough. I LOVE FW! But if the current downward trend in player numbers continues, there won't be much FW to love. My ONLY concern is how to keep the numbers up. I don't care how CCP do it - I just don't want FW to fizzle out. Stop trying to turn what I am saying into what YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO BE SAYING.
Pan Dora Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.25 19:52:00 - [61] (messed keybordoad, VV=W) Originally by: oilio Originally by: Pan Dora CCP presented FW as an 'introdutory' PVP. Something you join when you want to try your hand in pvp but dont want(/its not prepared to del with) all the responsabilities of a 0.0 sovereignity, simple piracy or mercenary work (defense of territory, security status, wardec costs, ...). In this sense CCP planed FW to be transitory, something you do for some time and then move along. This said lots of people joined FW, now lots of people are leaving FW. ITS WORKING AS INTENDED. ITS NOT BROKEN, DONT NEED A FIX. The issue will become real when people stop to leave FW. My point was that FW is losing players and IF the graph continues at its present rate of decline, FW will be dead before long. But you take the conclusion that the player leaving novv do it because of 'lack of revvard' vvhen in fact its a consequence of the high amount of people that joined it to 'try it' becaue as nevv and shiny. This player are leaving because of the fact FVV vvas not to their thing to start vvith. Quote: You say the issue will become real if people STOP leaving FW? Of course, more players then expected joined FVV. If this high amount of player stay in FVV this mean that the revvard of 0.0 spacing holding, lo-sec piracy among others otyher forms of pvp are not enougth to make people leave FVV and join others PVP activities. Quote: So by your logic, FW will be a success when no-one plays it anymore? Nice try to change my vvords. FVV vvill be a sucess hen people take part in this 'introductory' pvp (or 'pvp ligth') to more risk (and consequently more revvarding) forms of pvp. Of course players need to leave the safeguards of FVV to fully engage this forms of PvP. Quote: WORKING AS INTENDED!!! - yeah, alright, but the numbers are declining. Actualy CCP planed FVV to be more small gang pvp, but rigth novv its mainly blob vvarfare. So I apologize, its not vvorking as intended, the numbers need to decline more. To de point that blob vvarfare become the exception, not the rule CCP, please FIX FVV, e need less people involved. My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:00:00 - [62] Someone, quick, please ... Give Pan Dora a 'W' key. For the love of all that is holy!!! Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:07:00 - [63] A lot of nonsense being talked about here. We all know that unless you're some cloaking pansy PVP gang only engaging when you know you wont take losses cough <pre-edited for sake of alliance lol> cough, then PVP costs ISK. It makes me laugh when people say there's no rewards when those same people are the lazy ones who dont collect any tags or loot from the plexes. It might not be much compared to lvl 4 missions but its better than nothing - and you're also doing your militia a service - albeit not a PVP service. In terms of PVP, FW is unique. You can log in and join various sized PVP gangs within minutes on your way to fight targets - which just doesn't happen in 0.0 alliance warfare. You're as likely to spend 3 hours+ sitting and waiting at a POS only to get Doomsdayed 3 minutes into a fight as get a "good" fleet fight. FW players are in empire close to their lvl 4 agents - moaning for more ISK really is pathetic when you also consider this. I agree with comments that its all meaningless tbh, your decorations and rank are worthless currently. System occupancy really means sod all too, especially since its really based on glorified mission running (plexes). However this doesn't mean FW players need to stick to Empire. Some of the best fun I had in the Gallente militia was with Lucas Avignon, JLBane, Funkcickle and some other experienced FCs heading into 0.0 Syndicate which is only 3 or 4 jumps from Old Man Star (the Gallente base of operations). Its a nice feeling being in a rabble fleet and trashing pirate gatecamps and proven 0.0 alliance leaders wink Sajukaar. We all knew that regularly ran gangs of militia (20-30 members) ran through that part of space would effectively gain the militia effective control of the 0.0 entry space since most alliances can't deal with those numbers jumping through every hour or so. There was nothing to stop this happening or even the militias hiring themselves out as some sort of "meatshield" (lol) to 0.0 alliances, since almost all FW players want to do is fight and have fun. The potential was and still is there for cool stuff to happen with the militias, but it takes cooperation, which sadly due to the greifing element gets systematically undermined. Unfortunately without giving some sort of alliance style veto on signed up corporations/members there's no way to control the quality of the militias members - so its "leadership" will always be plagued and ineffective. Of course opening up some veto also leads to a new type of abuse when that power of veto falls into the wrong hands. So: Enjoy the quick to find, abundant fights. Collect all the tags you can. Run missions 1 or 2 days a week to fund the PVP. ....And stop complaining about FW - its a great addition to the game and "should" get better.
Pan Dora Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:12:00 - [64] Originally by: Ruze Someone, quick, please ... Give Pan Dora a 'W' key. For the love of all that is holy!!! But i love my 'V' key so much. My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post.
Megan Maynard Minmatar 7th Cav	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:12:00 - [65] LINK I have a CSM post started all ready. Total lack of focus regarding FW. No real reason to run missions. No clear way to tell progress. TOTAL lack of RP elements on CCP's side. Zero reward vs. Risk. Please post your support!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:13:00 - [66] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Pesky LaRue Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 25/08/2008 17:57:45 i really don't understand why people are so rabidly anti- the idea of getting semi-decent rewards for FW. I rarely see anyone asking to get rich, but what's so terrible about there actually being some kind of payout for taking part? even if it's something like 1k LP for each kill or something, there seem to be a lot of people (myself included) who would like to get some kind of reward for taking part. again, why's that so awful? Risk-free PvP. that wasn't an answer, it was a sound-bite - you didn't address nor answer why it would be so TERRIBLE to get rewarded for it? sure, there's risk-free PVP and that is truly awesome, but again, i'm asking you (or anyone) to explain why there should be NO reward and how that would be so, oh my GOD, so awful for them to get rewards? This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:16:00 - [67] Originally by: Matthias Reid Faction Warfare is fine, and exactly as advertised. No strings PVP. If u come home and got 30 mins to waste before dinner u can hop on and try and kill some stuff. It doesnt take the dedication and foresight of a 0.0 operation. But its been said verbattim, that if you want your PVP to mean something and have a point and a tangible reward, Join a Player corp in a 0.0 alliance. Giving FW pilots free shit and rewards is a slap in the face to every player empire that is and has ever been. The guys out in 0.0, whom fight every day to protect their space dont get any special reward from CCP. Why would it be in anyway reasonable to give these weekend warrior types. Your reward is the the PVP. I don't think people are asking to be handed free ships and faction ammo. I'd like the currently "paying" aspects of FW pay out according to the amount of risk they bear. Plexing NPC drops should be better, tags should be worth more and the missions should pay out higher. There's nothing radical about that, all that stuff is higher pay in 0.0 too. Because with risk comes reward and plexing/mission running in FW is higher risk than empire space. More importantly it takes more people, so it should pay commensurate to the amount of difficulty it entails. I'm sure its going to happen anyway. CCP just had to gauge how hard it'll actually be in live play. Reality is it needs to warrant the risk it takes. Right now no one does missions over level 2 in FW.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:16:00 - [68] Edited by: Po3tank on 25/08/2008 20:18:31 Fix lowsec pirating tech 2 mods arenÆt worth anything! All the good loot is in highsec and I cant get in there there is no good loot in lowsec, so I cant fuel my pirate life properly like the people that can go into highsec... I mean all i do is dangerous non consensual pvp but I dont get worth while loot! now tell me why FW, witch is pretty much scripted, and has no big risk should get a huge reward FYI if you lose large amounts of isk in FW you can still go to highsec and make tons of isk and fuel your need for pvp? edit:bad spelling Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Beltantis Torrence	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:17:00 - [69] Originally by: Matthias Reid Faction Warfare is fine, and exactly as advertised. No strings PVP. If u come home and got 30 mins to waste before dinner u can hop on and try and kill some stuff. It doesnt take the dedication and foresight of a 0.0 operation. But its been said verbattim, that if you want your PVP to mean something and have a point and a tangible reward, Join a Player corp in a 0.0 alliance. Giving FW pilots free shit and rewards is a slap in the face to every player empire that is and has ever been. The guys out in 0.0, whom fight every day to protect their space dont get any special reward from CCP. Why would it be in anyway reasonable to give these weekend warrior types. Your reward is the the PVP. I don't think people are asking to be handed free ships and faction ammo. I'd like the currently "paying" aspects of FW pay out according to the amount of risk they bear. Plexing NPC drops should be better, tags should be worth more and the missions should pay out higher. There's nothing radical about that, all that stuff is higher pay in 0.0 too. Because with risk comes reward and plexing/mission running in FW is higher risk than empire space. More importantly it takes more people, so it should pay commensurate to the amount of difficulty it entails. I'm sure its going to happen anyway. CCP just had to gauge how hard it'll actually be in live play. Reality is it needs to warrant the risk it takes. Right now no one does missions over level 2 in FW.
Salvar Ar'adim State Property	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:32:00 - [70] Right now FW is like a "special" massage without the happy ending. Sure its fun for a while, but its kind of disappointing when you realize there's no reward.... ______ Salvar Ar'Adim [RLLUP]State Property Originally by: CCP Wrangler Get Chribba to publically denounce Veldspar, then we can start discussing winning EVE...
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss A lot of nonsense being talked about here. We all know that unless you're some cloaking pansy PVP gang only engaging when you know you wont take losses cough <pre-edited for sake of alliance lol> cough, then PVP costs ISK. Tell that to Verone, or any other successful pirate out there. Isk can be made from PvP. Right now, being a pirate or, to a lesser degree, a mercinary is the only way to do it. The corps who engage in random war-decs with no political objective are just pirates by another name. They're just using the game mechanics to avoid the sec hits. Again, I think that CCP is missing a real opportunity with FW to transition new players from PvE combat (missions) to PvP combat as they gain experience. There's a big hole in the progression between being a noob running missions to being someone who would be able to pull their weight as a pirate, merc, or member of a 0.0 alliance.
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.25 20:45:00 - [72] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Vyktor Abyss A lot of nonsense being talked about here. We all know that unless you're some cloaking pansy PVP gang only engaging when you know you wont take losses cough <pre-edited for sake of alliance lol> cough, then PVP costs ISK. Tell that to Verone, or any other successful pirate out there. Isk can be made from PvP. Right now, being a pirate or, to a lesser degree, a mercinary is the only way to do it. The corps who engage in random war-decs with no political objective are just pirates by another name. They're just using the game mechanics to avoid the sec hits. Again, I think that CCP is missing a real opportunity with FW to transition new players from PvE combat (missions) to PvP combat as they gain experience. There's a big hole in the progression between being a noob running missions to being someone who would be able to pull their weight as a pirate, merc, or member of a 0.0 alliance. Though I do like Veto & Verone - Read it again.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:00:00 - [73] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Though I do like Veto & Verone - Read it again. I got it the first time. The economics of eve combat are that you can't make a living at it unless you only engage when the fight is "unfair", or the reason you are PvPing in the first place is essentially a "land war" to secure access to resources that you intend to exploit. Picking your fights and stacking the deck in your favor isn't being a "pansy" if you're playing the pirate or merc, it's just plain smart. It's owing to the fact that a ship wreck isn't nearly as valuable as a ship. If it was, I'm sure you'd see more pirates slugging it out, because the only thing that would matter is who held the field (and the loot rights) after the fight. As it is, the only way to make a living as a pirate or merc is to kill or ransom many ships for every one you lose. Naturally they're going to take every advantage that the game mechanics allow to make that happen.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:19:00 - [74] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/08/2008 21:20:15 Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I got it the first time. The economics of eve combat are that you can't make a living at it unless you only engage when the fight is "unfair", or the reason you are PvPing in the first place is essentially a "land war" to secure access to resources that you intend to exploit. Picking your fights and stacking the deck in your favor isn't being a "pansy" if you're playing the pirate or merc, it's just plain smart. It's owing to the fact that a ship wreck isn't nearly as valuable as a ship. If it was, I'm sure you'd see more pirates slugging it out, because the only thing that would matter is who held the field (and the loot rights) after the fight. As it is, the only way to make a living as a pirate or merc is to kill or ransom many ships for every one you lose. Naturally they're going to take every advantage that the game mechanics allow to make that happen. This. Pirates who aren't careful and don't pick fights where they have a advantage (except in rare cases when you just need to fight, like someone trying to kick you out of your living space) generally end up having to fund themselves otherwise, and therefore cease to be pure pirates. As a pirate, you want to have such numbers and ships so that all three conditions must be satisfied to get the best results: (a) Winning without losses is the likely option (so ship losses don't eat your profits). (b) There is as little as possible ISK risked (so the least is lost in case your assessment of the situation was wrong and losses happen). (c) There are as few as possible people involved (so loot gets split on least players, thereby maximizing profit). (d) The potential ISK rewards are as high as possible (so you get the most loot in the first place). Satisfying all four (which go against each other, as overly insisting on A tends to mess up B and/or C and D, and overly insisting on C and D generally messes up constraint A (and/or B), etc. Finding acceptable balance between all four is necessary for maximizing your success as a pirate. And yes, I have fun pirating and make decent (nothing spectacular, but decent enough I have a preety sizeable financial buffer and can afford new toys when I want to) ISK while doing it, too. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:32:00 - [75] Said if before, saying it again, faction ships and faction modules only as a reward to those fighting for their faction. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Feilamya Minmatar Pelennor Swarm G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:34:00 - [76] Originally by: oilio I LIKE FW!!!! What is bothering me is that the graphs show far more players leaving than joining. Don't look at the graphs then. It might make you feel better.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:34:00 - [77] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/08/2008 21:35:02 Originally by: Danton Marcellus Said if before, saying it again, faction ships and faction modules only as a reward to those fighting for their faction. I don't 100% agree, but I do think that you should be able to get faction ships and modules more easily through being successful in FW rather then being a successful mission runner. Originally by: Feilamya Originally by: oilio I LIKE FW!!!! What is bothering me is that the graphs show far more players leaving than joining. Don't look at the graphs then. It might make you feel better. Your approach, I like it Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Semkhet Spartan Industries	Posted - 2008.08.25 21:50:00 - [78] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine I got it the first time. The economics of eve combat are that you can't make a living at it unless you only engage when the fight is "unfair", or the reason you are PvPing in the first place is essentially a "land war" to secure access to resources that you intend to exploit. Picking your fights and stacking the deck in your favor isn't being a "pansy" if you're playing the pirate or merc, it's just plain smart. It's owing to the fact that a ship wreck isn't nearly as valuable as a ship. If it was, I'm sure you'd see more pirates slugging it out, because the only thing that would matter is who held the field (and the loot rights) after the fight. As it is, the only way to make a living as a pirate or merc is to kill or ransom many ships for every one you lose. Naturally they're going to take every advantage that the game mechanics allow to make that happen. Branko has correctly defined the conditions which rule piracy profitability, and as usual, Akita identifies FW's main critical issues. There is nothing wrong to use game mechanics at your benefit. In fact, I am always amazed that there's always some genius raising the point implying that it's somehow unfair, when the concept of making the best out of what you have at disposal is the most basic requisite for survival, here and everywhere else. And concerning fights, every fight you attend till the outcome and which isn't developing in your favor only means: A) You got ambushed (quite difficult in EvE if you know how to play). B) You lacked guidance, wisdom or intel C) You are a noob D) Kamikaze The problem is not intrinsically unfair fights. The issue relates to all-out blobbing where at the end, it all boils down to throwing a few dices and usually handing over the win to the highest number. In blob warfare, there are only two things which really count: FC and Intel quality. Meaning that every other role can pretty much be absolved by John Doe, provided both blobs cumulate approximately the same SP average and the same level of gear. Of course, a BOB or TRI blob can handle an enemy blob despite being outnumbered 2:1 or more, but these are exceptions. It take years to train the skills and go through enough engagements which unfolded in a way which was constructive enough to allow you to learn from your demise and get better bit by bit the hard way. Cohesion is also of essence. A few guys who play together since long time will present a wing with overlapping and complementary abilities and fight like a well oiled machine. For the casual & random blob instead, the defining property is simply chaos. Superficial fun aside, a kind of skill-less "free for all" using cheap stuff with random FC's where you don't even have the time to understand who did what and how to blow you up will not provide the kind of material needed to become a good PvP'er. That's why IMHO, I sincerely really don't see how FW could attract a decent amount of competent PvP'ers. And these good PvP'ers are exactly the ones whose experience is needed if PvP newcomers, through FW, want to get a glimpse into what PvP can really be.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.08.25 22:04:00 - [79] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Pesky LaRue Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 25/08/2008 17:57:45 i really don't understand why people are so rabidly anti- the idea of getting semi-decent rewards for FW. I rarely see anyone asking to get rich, but what's so terrible about there actually being some kind of payout for taking part? even if it's something like 1k LP for each kill or something, there seem to be a lot of people (myself included) who would like to get some kind of reward for taking part. again, why's that so awful? Risk-free PvP. that wasn't an answer Yes, yes it was. - DesuSigs
Lemptie Gallente Glass House	Posted - 2008.08.25 22:23:00 - [80] Reward for FW have to be LP ,guy that did the most damage gets the most LP. And i think that will happen .
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.08.25 22:49:00 - [81] Originally by: Lemptie Reward for FW have to be LP ,guy that did the most damage gets the most LP. And i think that will happen . Insert alt into enemy militia. Kill. Rinse and repeat. Buy everything you want. No this will not work at least not as long as its not somehow tied to actual isk destroyed. Probably this is not gonna happen. Anyway my stance is that people should just accept the fact that you pvp for fun not for iskies. Doesn't mean you can't earn isk with pvp but only a few people will pull it off. Somebody has to lose the loot you earn, eh? People leaving FW? So what. Go back to your endless mission whoring but then don't complain you have no fun with pvp.
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.25 23:03:00 - [82] Originally by: Feilamya Originally by: oilio I LIKE FW!!!! What is bothering me is that the graphs show far more players leaving than joining. Don't look at the graphs then. It might make you feel better. Yes, that's a good idea. Ignore the problem and feel better. How clever!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.25 23:14:00 - [83] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 25/08/2008 23:14:31 Originally by: Crumplecorn Yes, yes it was. No, no it wasn't - no more than this glib retort is. risk free PVP doesn't (and shouldn't) exclude the possibility of rewards for taking part, and you still haven't explain why it would be so awful if rewards were given. again, not talking about something huge, just something (say, 1k Loyalty Points per kill) This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Ashlee Darksky	Posted - 2008.08.25 23:21:00 - [84] FW isn't going to die, stop testiculating (waving your arms around and talking b*llocks!)... FW initially attracted a load of people because it was new. So they've tried it, didn't like it, gone back to their corps or whatever. The point is that it will all level out onto a more stable takeup and drop rate. What you have forgotten is the people who are just trying it for the first time, which is why the initial signup numbers were high. Not everyone is going to leave it, thats just a silly assumption. Anyway, with people signing up every day you'll have lots of nice new noobs to prey on without getting ganked by the older players who've decided they don't want to do FW. Good luck with your fail warfare, I mean faction warfare --- I see fail everywhere, and it's like they don't even know they're failing ---
Lord Berk Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.08.25 23:25:00 - [85] FW is a good start, but there's a couple of ways to make it better. 1. Remove the (&^(^ Empire cops. They said FW was going to take place everywhere - so make it everywhere. If 200 FW heathen barbarians want to try to camp Amarr, let 'em try. Same thing if we wanted to have a go at common Rens pipes. There is far too little "neutral zones" to try to take FW to Empire. Open 'er up! 2. Spying = SOP intel. Hate to say it but competitive FC's have to have detailed access to what the other FW fleet is doing. Why? Cause you know the same damn thing is being done to you. A sad reality. Poor FC's have to try and direct a fleet while giving away as little info as possible to their own members. As least you can shoot the odd neutral following - a lot tougher to do when buddy is allied and you risk angering a corp over a possible spy. It's a ***** at the best of times and that easy access purple icon just made it worse. Don't ask me how to fix this one tho - can't see any easy way to do so. Rank 5 and above fleets or something...? --------------------------------
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 00:48:00 - [86] Somealtofmine, Branko: While your summaries of how to be a succesful pirate are no doubt accurate, you're missing the key point. Faction Warfare players are generally not pirates. The majority are newer players trying PVP for the first time. They will die, losses will cost them ISK until they become experienced PVPers and develop the skills for cost effective PVP or they go run missions to finance their PVP like plenty of other PVPers that PVP for fun, not ISK. Introducing some reward system greater than normal PVP rewards - and effectively nerfing piracy (I like a lot of pirates FYI - and use the term "pansy" with jocular affection) in my opinion is not fair to the rest of EVE, just to boost the FW player numbers. Comprendez vous?
Amoun Ra Caldari Soulless Armada	Posted - 2008.08.26 00:52:00 - [87] From my experience in FW i can see the problem with FW can be split into three parts: 1- FW as it is right now is a huge isk sink with zero reward which causes a lot of people to go broke sooner or later. 2- No tangible reward from occupying systems in FW thus discouraging people from trying to capture them so people just revert to the only thing they find interesting which is trying to fight each other which leads to problem number 1. 3-People don't want to risk loosing their ships so they don't like going in small numbers and just wait in high sec for a blob to form to reduce their chances of being shot so we now have massive blobs and less small gang pvp or even solo pvp which leads us back to problem 1. So here is what i think could solve this issue: First lets make killing another member of the hostile militia be worth something that way people will always be attracted into trying to pvp regardless of whether there is a blob or not and we should start seeing some small gang action. How do you say we can do that, simple how about if the server calculates the total cost of a players ship and places a percentage of that price as a hidden reward for his killing however only members of the hostile militia would benefit from that reward if they killed him.In case the player got killed by more than one member of the hostile militia the reward would be distributed based on amount of damage dealt. This would solve problems 1 and 3 by reducing the isk sink and providing a real incentive for players to go kill each other. Second let capturing systems be worth something for example what if when a system falls to a militia it becomes locked till next downtime and only members of that militia can jump to it, during that time random plexes start spawning every hour or so with each plex giving a reward of about 15 mil isk (so a perfect lockdown meaning the system is captured right after DT would bring only 360 mil isk). Of course the problem would be how to prevent militia members from killing each other for that system so a re look into the penalty for killing a fellow militia member will be needed. Well that's what i think will solve the issue any comments would be appreciated and i would love to hear a devs opinion on the possibility of implementing those ideas. We're Caldari. And we're in the right.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.26 02:35:00 - [88] Edited by: Onionico on 26/08/2008 02:35:49 Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/08/2008 19:40:53 In most Mmorpgs "roleplayers" are considered to be figures of fun and derision and way below the competence of "proper" serious professional players. Yet in Eve the roleplay fraternity is about as hardcore and accomplished as it gets and when we decide to begin a campaign to punish capsuleers who sign up with a space fascist dictatorship to oppress their own people we are greeted by a tide of whining, gnashing of teeth and beard-tugging that is almost cataclysmic in puerile intensity. Let me make it plain for you. Our roleplay intention is to break the Caldari Militia. We intend to ensure that no Caldari-aligned corporation can occupy a command and control and FC role in the militia through fear of anarchist free captains and sudden violent guerrilla strikes. From the intensity of complaints and apparent inability of the Caldari to organize any form of resistance it seems we're successful. Maybe you'd like to negotiate terms for surrender? Bull**** like this doesn't help either. Look at her try to defend it. Isn't she cute? Please jade, another 5 paragraph's on why you're not being a lame ass griefer. CSM delegate lulz
Pan Dora Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.26 03:17:00 - [89] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 26/08/2008 02:35:49 Originally by: Jade Constantine bla bla bla Bull**** like this doesn't help either. Look at her try to defend it. Isn't she cute? Please jade, another 5 paragraph's on why you're not being a lame ass griefer. CSM delegate lulz wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp. Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing. My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post.
Farrqua Minmatar Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.26 03:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Onionico Edited by: Onionico on 26/08/2008 02:35:49 Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 25/08/2008 19:40:53 In most Mmorpgs "roleplayers" are considered to be figures of fun and derision and way below the competence of "proper" serious professional players. Yet in Eve the roleplay fraternity is about as hardcore and accomplished as it gets and when we decide to begin a campaign to punish capsuleers who sign up with a space fascist dictatorship to oppress their own people we are greeted by a tide of whining, gnashing of teeth and beard-tugging that is almost cataclysmic in puerile intensity. Let me make it plain for you. Our roleplay intention is to break the Caldari Militia. We intend to ensure that no Caldari-aligned corporation can occupy a command and control and FC role in the militia through fear of anarchist free captains and sudden violent guerrilla strikes. From the intensity of complaints and apparent inability of the Caldari to organize any form of resistance it seems we're successful. Maybe you'd like to negotiate terms for surrender? Bull**** like this doesn't help either. Look at her try to defend it. Isn't she cute? Please jade, another 5 paragraph's on why you're not being a lame ass griefer. CSM delegate lulz Actually "she" is a dude. And I don't think you know what "Griefing" is with in the context of this game.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.26 03:34:00 - [91] Originally by: Pan Dora wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp. Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing. Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops.
Kyle Klanen	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:25:00 - [92] Direct rewards for FW would be bull cookies and WoW in space what FW needs is resources that can be fought over like in 0.0, what form it could take I'm not sure maybe some kind of complex with an acceleration gate that only lets corresponding militia members through and fill it with shiny BS rats or high end ores so it actually desirable enough to fight over but make the system for capturing the complex very fluid so no single side could retain the ability to the enter the plex without having to defend it. This principle would mean if the people in FW wanted the rewards they are going to have to fight for them not just shoot another ship and CCP drops ISK/LP/Honour points into their wallets.
Pan Dora Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:32:00 - [93] Originally by: Amoun Ra From my experience in FW i can see the problem with FW can be split into three parts: 1- FW as it is right now is a huge isk sink with zero reward which causes a lot of people to go broke sooner or later. compare it with low sec piracy: huge isk+security status+space where you can fly+reputation sink with 0 reward. Quote: 2- No tangible reward from occupying systems in FW thus discouraging people from trying to capture them so people just revert to the only thing they find interesting which is trying to fight each other which leads to problem number 1. Yeah, that is an real issue. Let hope what they said in dev blog become true: Quote: In future expansions of Factional Warfare we are going to look at linking additional functionality and rewards into ranks like (and these are not promises, just current ideas) tying them into dungeons in space and adding additional equipment and ships to the loyalty store that will only be available at certain ranks. Dev Blog Quote: 3-People don't want to risk loosing their ships so they don't like going in small numbers and just wait in high sec for a blob to form to reduce their chances of being shot so we now have massive blobs and less small gang pvp or even solo pvp which leads us back to problem 1. They dont risk ==>> they dont get the reward. Working as intended? My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:33:00 - [94] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 26/08/2008 04:33:58 Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Somealtofmine, Branko: While your summaries of how to be a succesful pirate are no doubt accurate, you're missing the key point. Faction Warfare players are generally not pirates. The majority are newer players trying PVP for the first time. They will die, losses will cost them ISK until they become experienced PVPers and develop the skills for cost effective PVP or they go run missions to finance their PVP like plenty of other PVPers that PVP for fun, not ISK. Introducing some reward system greater than normal PVP rewards - and effectively nerfing piracy (I like a lot of pirates FYI - and use the term "pansy" with jocular affection) in my opinion is not fair to the rest of EVE, just to boost the FW player numbers. Comprendez vous? I think we're trying to make the same point here. FW players don't play the way pirates do - hence they are not going to profit off PvP alone. So they shouldn't get any really special treatment. We want to promote cost-effective piloting (rather then the blobbing they do now, often with horrible lack of tactics). Originally by:* Farrqua And I don't think you know what "Griefing" is with in the context of this game. Intentionally murdering the Caldari militia and all related to it is not griefing. If anything, it's a job well done tbh. You all got guns, fight back ;) Just been on a funny leeroy op, btw. leeeroy the damn militias! Originally by:* Pan Dora compare it with low sec piracy: huge isk+security status+space where you can fly+reputation sink with 0 reward. My wallet, it disagrees. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Psydney	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:41:00 - [95] An angels gets its wongs when someone ends awhine poast with a... CCP SORT IT OUT!!!!!!
Pan Dora Caldari Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:45:00 - [96] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Pan Dora compare it with low sec piracy: huge isk+security status+space where you can fly+reputation sink with 0 reward. My wallet, it disagrees. Your wallet disagrees because you dont conduce piracy like the typical FW pilot. My posts DOES reflect the view of my corp and ally... ..or a mistake they did when let me post.
Naomi Halloran Industry Breakthrough	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:54:00 - [97] Eh, I'm not too bothered by it one way or the other, mostly because I'm still fairly new to the game. But I'll be keeping an eye open to see what happens with this. "Sarcasm is just another free service I offer. If something I said offends you... good, it was meant to."
Lrd Byron	Posted - 2008.08.26 04:58:00 - [98] Originally by: Matthias Reid Faction Warfare is fine, and exactly as advertised. No strings PVP. If u come home and got 30 mins to waste before dinner u can hop on and try and kill some stuff. It doesnt take the dedication and foresight of a 0.0 operation. But its been said verbattim, that if you want your PVP to mean something and have a point and a tangible reward, Join a Player corp in a 0.0 alliance. Giving FW pilots free shit and rewards is a slap in the face to every player empire that is and has ever been. The guys out in 0.0, whom fight every day to protect their space dont get any special reward from CCP. Why would it be in anyway reasonable to give these weekend warrior types. Your reward is the the PVP. Gotta say I agree. I joined FW for no other reason than I wanted to fight and it provided me with free targets who presumably also wanted to fight, which it did, so mission accomplished. The only thing that irks me a little is the ship type restrictions on the plexes. Its no wonder that nobody does them, who wants to PvP in a gay little t1 frigate? Not me at any rate. I guess I can understand the goal of encouraging people to participate even if the only ships they can fly and afford are hopelessly outclassed by more experienced pilots, but its not like 2 t1 cruisers won't have their way with a t2 cruiser that costs 10 times as much. Crap ships are already by far the most cost effective, they don't need any additional protection.
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.08.26 05:08:00 - [99] Originally by: Grarr Dexx You know, PVP just isn't rewarding at all. It's a way to blow off steam, not a way to gain 'rewards'. Signed in triplicate. -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
Jones Bones Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.26 05:22:00 - [100] I still don't understand why occupancy in FW really means jackshit. "Oh look we took Kourmonen back from the Minmatar!" Who cares? Minnies can still dock in stations in Kourm. Hell the factions can dock in their enemies' FW stations. I don't want money to fight, i fight for lulz. But having a reason to actually "conquer" systems would be nice.
Jones Bones Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.26 05:26:00 - [101] Originally by: Lrd Byron The only thing that irks me a little is the ship type restrictions on the plexes. Its no wonder that nobody does them, who wants to PvP in a gay little t1 frigate? Not me at any rate. I guess I can understand the goal of encouraging people to participate even if the only ships they can fly and afford are hopelessly outclassed by more experienced pilots, but its not like 2 t1 cruisers won't have their way with a t2 cruiser that costs 10 times as much. Crap ships are already by far the most cost effective, they don't need any additional protection. Completely disagree. The FW plexes provide a buffer for smaller gangs to engage larger gangs. Example: Mirrorgod assembles a typical 50 Minnie blob ranging from BS class ships down to T1 frigs. We can only muster 20 Amarr to fight them. Solution? Use a medium plex to keep out their BS and BC. The plexes add variety. If every plex was unrestricted Outbreak would cyno caps constantly. You want to deal with that shit? Go to 0.0.
techzer0 Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.08.26 05:33:00 - [102] Originally by: Grarr Dexx You know, PVP just isn't rewarding at all. It's a way to blow off steam, not a way to gain 'rewards'. Keep thinking that. And I'll keep reselling loot from kills ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar!
Tiberius Maddox	Posted - 2008.08.26 06:23:00 - [103] think I understand CCP's intent with FW, but it does seem like a bit of a waste in some respects. If you're going to risk your ship and your hard-earned ISK, why do it for something that appears to be pretty meaningless. After all, if you're spoiling for a PvP fight it's not like you're going to have great difficulty finding one. CCP wants a war between the races to spice up EVE -- fine. Then let's have a real war. A REAL war! Not some police action limited to a handful of systems where everyone is a volunteer and goes home for a brew after a hard day at the office. Instead, let the empires truly battle it out to the death. If one race gets crushed, then they get crushed. That might even result in former areas of empire space being overrun as part of an empire collapses and turned into 0.0. 0.0 alliances don't fight for fun, they fight for power, territory, and to impose their will on other people. That's the nature of war. So why should the empires be any different? FW is an obviously contrived gameplay mechanic that seems a little unrealistic at first blush. Perhaps CCP has big plan for it in the future, though.
Onionico Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.26 06:38:00 - [104] Edited by: Onionico on 26/08/2008 06:39:26 Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Pan Dora wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp. Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing. Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops. Thanks, I'm glad someone else noticed as well. Look at her fanboi's come to rescue her. For a peson who is supposed to give a crap about this game, this seems to be quite a conflict. Seems you'd rather score cheap kills and exploit the unrefined system to me. Allowed - sure. Lame? Big time.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.08.26 06:40:00 - [105] Sigh, yet another non-problem in search of a solution. OK, so there is that shiny new thing that has been hyped and therefore everybody and his sister were trying it out. Now numbers are gradually going down - as should be expected after the thrill of the new has worn off and a number of pilots go back to their 0.0 alliances or doing missions again or whatever else the usually prefer to do. Why is anybody surprised by such a natural phenomenon? What will remain after a while is the FW core of pilots who really like it beyond trying it out. Prediction: FW numbers will level off after a while and then fluctuate with overall playerbase and some other variables - going up and down at times. Everytime causing threads to appear that either will spread doom & gloom about FW or whine about FW detracting from "real" pvp out in 0.0. There's nothing more silly in statistics than taking a temporary trend and assuming it will continue forever until reaching some extreme end in short order. The only true constant in eve is threads in general discussions declaring the world as we know it is about to end (badly of course). --- ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Jade Constantine	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:37:00 - [106] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 26/08/2008 13:37:58 Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Pan Dora wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp. Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing. Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops. And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Utter and complete nonsense! You sir seem to be playing the wrong game. Eve is a single server you see. There are no shards or artificial instanced "battlegrounds" in Eve's single cluster. Faction warfare belongs to me as much as it belongs to you. It belongs to everyone - its content for all. Any eve player who wants to "influence" faction warfare is fully within their rights to come and shoot you in face - or rep your enemies or steal your loot, or scam your members, or infiltrate your corp and sell secrets, pass false intel, bump your ships out of dock range and so on and so on and so on. Some of the participants of Faction Warfare have this crazy idea that only the people signed up to factions should be interested in the future outcome of the war and the way the plotline develops. I have to tell you that you are absolutely wrong and its time to wake up and smell the roses on this issue. Yep thats right, you militiamen are there for MY amusement. Just as the Gallente and Matari Militia are there for yours. (and doubtless SF is there for the amusement of anyone who wants to shoot at anarchist freedom fighters). Everything is interconnected and there are no lines of demarcation determining which bit of content is allocated to which group of players. Learn a little bit about this game you are playing before posting on forums in future please. Star Fraction \| Dare to Dream!
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:43:00 - [107] Originally by: oilio http://fwstats.eve-ic.net/ and I mean literally "downhill" - look at the graphs for number of players. The whole wardec mess has meant that (at least for Caldari) many of the best corps and FCs have gone. The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. If the lines on the graph continue their trend, FW doesn't have long. CCP need to sort this out fairly quickly, or "Empyrean Age" is gonna mean nothing at all. I cannot speak to the state militia, but it has dropped in sixe. I was enjoying the gallente militia right up until someone found a way to bring stupid inhouse political squabbling into it. It was supposed to be fun, no politics, no alliance BS, pvp. And for a time, it was..... ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.08.26 13:53:00 - [108] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Pan Dora wardecs against corps that looks like easy preys are nothing new. Unfortunately several FW corps looks like easy prey. If they cant stand a wardec, they are not ready to be a player corp. Yes, Jade's excuse its lame, but its more than enough to make it not griefing. Actually Jade making that excuse in public was kinda dumb. She could have said "hey, we just decced them because we don't like thier face!!". She's on record now as wanting to determine the outcome without actually joining the militia. Ooops. What are you crying about? The reason they declared militia corporations without joining the militia is that they've established an alliance and are serious about it, not like some merc corporations we know of who rotate in and out of their alliance like it was ballroom dancing. CCP made the mistake of holding out on RP activites that made sense, introduced the alliance format and made it almost essential to stay competative, then once everyone had adjusted to that reality they introduce this abomination of a system telling RP alliances to butcher their babies to be allowed in. Poor planning, poor execution, it's all on CCP not on the RP nationalists out there. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:20:00 - [109] I'd like to see missions along the lines of: "Go to a contested system and kill x enemy militia for x tags reward" or... have militia players drop milita tags which you cna sell or trade in for factional gear. The current missions of "Go 20 jumps through low sec to get ganked by a dessie gang for 20k ISK" don't really cut it! Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:26:00 - [110] Me and my corp quit faction war too. Main reasons in order. 3. All the people abusing the system. 2. The complete lack of care of who owned or conquered where. 1. The novelty wore off.
Mordekai Bloodwake Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:33:00 - [111] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. Quote: THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? LOL!. Try telling that to new players that lose their ships and modules after joining in on FW thinking its PvP fun, nothing fun about losing your stuff when your new. I only say this because time and time again i see new players come to Eve to then quickly get frustrated and leave due to the death penalty Eve has in PvP.
Level5	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:50:00 - [112] looks like CCP is pretty happy with FW... http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2156
NeoTheo Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.26 14:52:00 - [113] Originally by: Mordekai Bloodwake LOL!. Try telling that to new players that lose their ships and modules after joining in on FW thinking its PvP fun, nothing fun about losing your stuff when your new. I only say this because time and time again i see new players come to Eve to then quickly get frustrated and leave due to the death penalty Eve has in PvP. ld submitt to you that EvE isnt the game for them, sorry in new eden, things go bang. Neotheo Dark Materials Linkage
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:03:00 - [114] Originally by: Level5 looks like CCP is pretty happy with FW... Not so much happy with it, as, moving on to the next thing. Which is a bummer, I was hoping for a round of FW tweaks in 1.1. And there's not a word about that. :( ------------------ Ironfleet.com
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:16:00 - [115] Originally by: Level5 looks like CCP is pretty happy with FW... http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2156 and from the interview: "It has met its aim very well," Stuhrmann told us. "We had over 40,000 players sign up for factional warfare in the first few weeks and that trend has stayed strong." OK, so now let's look how things are eight weeks down the line: Caldari Militia = 5,824 Gallente Militia = 4,983 Amarr Militia = 2,909 Minmatar Militia = 4,393 Grant Total = 18,109 So if the original figures are correct, FW population is now less than half what it was two months ago. Hopefully, this downward trend won't continue at the rate it has been.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:26:00 - [116] The OP is dead on correct. FW is dieing and it is going to get worse over the next few weeks. CCP needs to do something to make it mean something. Right now it doesn't mean anything. Capturing complexes and systems doesn't mean anything. There is no pride, no ownership, no benefits, no penalties, no rewards. It was fun as hell at first and can still be fun at times even though the action is dieing down due to less players involved, but the prevailing opinion is that the fun is wearing off and it is basically a pointless waste of isk and time. *Rhaegor Stormborn* Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
OffBeaT	Posted - 2008.08.26 18:55:00 - [117] Originally by: Reaver One The rewards of FW should be in-line with all EvE reward systems (except mission running). What do 0.0 corps get by defending their territories? Access to resources, that's what. What should the rewards of FW be? Access to resources, not ISK on a platter. You could simply put some high-quality 'roids in FW complexes that require ownership to mine, or simply make it possible to bump a system up in security level by securing the plexes (thus opening up the system to exploitation). Make it so that pirate activity can lower an adjacent system's sec level as well, and designate a number of high-sec systems from all empires that can be affected in this way. This makes it so that: FW players are playing to open up more systems for their empire. They are rewarded by the increase in mission agents and (relatively) safe mining opportunities. Pirates are fighting to keep low-sec free for them to exploit (via piracy), and to increase the amount of low-sec space. they should put in 500k-1mil high end rats, so the fw fighters have some reason to hang out and make some coin.. the risk is high in fw space so the reword for ai hunting should be worth it.
Naomi Halloran Industry Breakthrough	Posted - 2008.08.26 19:31:00 - [118] I think they need to make it so that when you capture a system, you really capture a system. As in, in regards to the faction that you took the system from, it becomes a red-flag system to enter. I'd also be all for claiming some of the areas that you see in missions. For instance, I came across a Shipyard on one. Why not claim it in the name of your empire and corporation, and use it to help out? Just a couple thoughts from a clueless FW newbie, flame if you will. (I won't put on the suit, either.) --- "Sarcasm is just another free service I offer. If something I said offends you... good, it was meant to."
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:17:00 - [119] i think the real problem is just how much better the gallante militia is hehe.... this coming from a caldari who has defected to the gallantes http://gallente.net?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=45015
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:40:00 - [120] FW is a deeply flawed concept to begin with. The whole idea of boring, consentual, pre-arranged combat is completely unsuited to the incredibly complex game that is eve. Second, it encourages blobbing by design, which has made low sec more like 0.0 without bubbles. Actually, 0.0 has far less blobs.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:47:00 - [121] Edited by: Frug on 26/08/2008 20:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. It's not obligation free or consequence free. It's not "push button, fight, don't lose anything, leave and go about business as usual" You have to leave your corp or have your corp leave its alliance to even try it. All it is, is reward free. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
John Holt Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.26 20:58:00 - [122] Edited by: John Holt on 26/08/2008 20:59:11 I've left Factional Warfare because it's purpose was fulfilled in me. I've been introduced to pvp and low sec space. I like both. Now I've joined an alliance so I can continue to operate in low sec and so I can learn the ropes in 0.0. I see FW as a stepping stone, not a home. It's reward is introducing one to the best parts of Eve. I found it fulfilling. Carebear no more! John Holt My Personal Eve Site
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.08.26 21:01:00 - [123] Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 26/08/2008 20:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. It's not obligation free or consequence free. It's not "push button, fight, don't lose anything, leave and go about business as usual" You have to leave your corp or have your corp leave its alliance to even try it. All it is, is reward free. And here I thought the whole fun of EVE is that your actions have consequence. Quite frankly I'm finding the FW-lover rhetoric about it being fun and thats enough reward to be apalling. The idea that conquering systems has no material effect on the gameplay or FW in general (outside of who can conquer what) would be emberassing to me if I were CCP. We all know it and anyone who says otherwise is either stupid or lying (5..4...3....2.....1 till someone flames me for that, though they'd probably the first to post a "\o/" if ccp added rewards). I wouldn't complain if CCP would let us in on their thought process but their too worried about having their petunias scorched on the forums if the players don't like their ideas.... which leads to a nice, productive, viscious-circle -- Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
Vyktor Abyss IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:48:00 - [124] The real reward of Factional Warfare "should" be your efforts affecting the landscape of the game. NPC stations being destroyed, captured, planets conquered etc - That is what a real dynamic Factional War "should" be doing. But it is not, that is left to your imagination and fluff news stories. However when FW was conceived and talked about long ago all was pointing towards exciting stuff like flying with your Faction NPC in fleet operations, results affecting the macro-economies, and really making bold changes to the landscape of the empires like borders changing, stations burning etc. What was hyped, enthused about, long awaited and finally sold as a shiney Bentley... ...is in fact a Robin Reliant. Still however, just as fun to drive off a cliff and watch explode on the rocks below.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.08.27 01:59:00 - [125] Originally by: Jade Constantine And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Well, first, I told you what I thought was wrong with it. The publisher chose to exclude existing alliances from FW. They gave specific reasons for doing so. You're side-stepping it. It'll probably get rectified shortly, unless the publisher has changed their minds about wanting the faction militias themselves to do the fighting, and not have FW end up being dominated by existing alliances. Second, you seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit. I don't care about your RP. I don't care who comes out on the short end of FW. I think it's unfortunate that someone like you who should be setting an example is dodging the stated intent of the devs. At the end of the day, they'll either deal with you, or they won't. We'll see.
Zackay Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:05:00 - [126] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Jade Constantine And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Well, first, I told you what I thought was wrong with it. The publisher chose to exclude existing alliances from FW. They gave specific reasons for doing so. You're side-stepping it. It'll probably get rectified shortly, unless the publisher has changed their minds about wanting the faction militias themselves to do the fighting, and not have FW end up being dominated by existing alliances. Second, you seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit. I don't care about your RP. I don't care who comes out on the short end of FW. I think it's unfortunate that someone like you who should be setting an example is dodging the stated intent of the devs. At the end of the day, they'll either deal with you, or they won't. We'll see. Headshot. Incoming 5 paragraph lecture from Jade excusing her behavior. You're in the wrong Jade. Think about what you are doing and why, honestly.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:10:00 - [127] Originally by: Somealt Ofmine Originally by: Jade Constantine And whats the problem with that exactly. You seem to have the misapprehension that somehow wanting to influence the results of Faction warfare from the outside is "wrong". Well, first, I told you what I thought was wrong with it. The publisher chose to exclude existing alliances from FW. They gave specific reasons for doing so. You're side-stepping it. It'll probably get rectified shortly, unless the publisher has changed their minds about wanting the faction militias themselves to do the fighting, and not have FW end up being dominated by existing alliances. Second, you seem to have me confused with someone who gives a shit. I don't care about your RP. I don't care who comes out on the short end of FW. I think it's unfortunate that someone like you who should be setting an example is dodging the stated intent of the devs. At the end of the day, they'll either deal with you, or they won't. We'll see. Then letting corps join was wrong. Since we can't have corps immune to wardecs because they're in FW (that'd be outright absurd), the only way they cannot be wardecced is by not allowing corps in there either ;P And, no, we simply cannot have corps immune to wardecs because they're enrolled in FW. So that's not a option... what gives? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zackay Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.08.27 04:15:00 - [128] Edited by: Zackay on 27/08/2008 04:15:38 To the poster above me. Corps don't need to be immune from war decs at all. Quite a simple fix really - kill anyone in your own militia, war dec or not, and lose some faction standing. When it drops low enough, you're out of militia. I'm pretty sure that would deal with this entire problem.
Althus Treefingers Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:31:00 - [129] Edited by: Althus Treefingers on 06/10/2008 23:32:30 As for rewards, I think LP, access to state ships etc are unnecessary. Militia aren't the navy. Basically we're supposed to be hired guns (according to storyline), but for now we're just violent philanthropists. For some reason no one's paying us to fight except in the missions. Certainly no one's paying us to take territory. The Republic Fleet peons are probably getting more ISK than I am in this war. Solution: Militia bounties on enemy player ships. (don't need to be huge, maybe just comparable to NPCs of a similar class) Straight-up ISK bonus for capping plexes. (personally I think it should be a fixed reward divided among everyone in range of the plex, leading to more significant risk/reward considerations. Again, not huge, just meaningful) Straight-up ISK bonus for capping systems. (either divided among all in range, maybe weighted by damage dealt, or a mini payout for everyone in the militia) It's a militia. They're somewhere between armies and mercenaries. Militias are people that get payed to fight. I also think FW should have some real bearing on non-FW empire, like TLF stations only accesible by Minmatar Militia, like captured Amarr systems no longer being available to the 24th or to Amarr-based corps. That sort of thing. Real world correlation: I'm not relatively safe walking around an Afghanistan warzone just because I decided to quit the military that week. If I was to be perfectly honest I'd ask for the right (as Minmatar militia) to shoot any and every thing in Amarr space, noobcorp or no .
Mako Nova	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:39:00 - [130] Originally by: Akita T Well, how about winning and losing LP for the militia corp as your FLEET wins/loses FW plexes, not just missions so far away nobody actually bothers doing ? Or, heck, the ability to request and turn in FW missions remotely, from within enemy territory, without even needing to dock ? What about militia-corp-only LP shop items that are actually desirable, as opposed to the same run-of-the-mill items you get in all regular LP stores ? How about FW-only obtainable privileges, like, say, highsec moon miners or highsec moonmining charters ? How about SERIOUS multipliers for all possible rewards depending on your empire's occupancy status ? The more systems your empire holds, the higher the offensive multipliers... the lower number of systems you hold, the higher the defensive multipliers... You know, a REASON to actually FIGHT the enemy except the fact "he's the enemy". Let's make faction warfare far better than missions, pirating, mining, or 0.0 ratting!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Defence Force	Posted - 2008.10.07 03:49:00 - [131] Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 07/10/2008 03:53:13 bleh, what's the point ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Paramite Pies Minmatar Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.10.07 04:09:00 - [132] I love the concept of FW. Races finally duking it out. Even taking sides! But I think the way they put together FW just was all wrong. I think they should've waited an expansion or two before implementing this and putting more thought into it. I think the whole Factional Warfare thing needs to be cut, redone, and implemented again. Players need some sort of reward for their side doing good in FW, it also needs to be more fun. Etc Etc. It needs more big and small tweaks. I really dislike it. Ever since I moved away from my corporation that did FW, you can hardly tell there is even a FW feature in the game. __________________ "People die when they are killed." General Dripik's Main.
Miz Cenuij	Posted - 2008.10.07 06:03:00 - [133] FW was doomed when a certain Star Fraction CSM member abused thier power to ensure that corps would remain able to war dec corps within the militias. "Men are going to die... and i'm going to kill them"
Strill	Posted - 2008.10.07 06:32:00 - [134] Originally by: Akita T Quote: These are all basically mission objectives/rewards. There would still be no meaning to FW. Hmm. Are we actually working on the same definition of the word "MEANING" here anyway ? Meaning. Purpose. A goal. Something you desire and set forth to acheive. PvP is the instrument you use to do that, not the goal. I agree with you totally, but I thought I might point out that CCP Dionysus thinks the complete opposite. He says PVP is the goal since it's "fun", and that rewards are unnecessary.
Florio Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.10.07 06:34:00 - [135] I love FW, it is so much better than fleet warfare, but agree that there are big problems (especially the war dec one) that CCP needs to sort out. And it isn't a case of improving the current system, it's a case of fixing something that is broken.
abrasive soap HOMELESS. Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:15:00 - [136] Originally by: Florio I love FW, it is so much better than fleet warfare, but agree that there are big problems (especially the war dec one) that CCP needs to sort out. And it isn't a case of improving the current system, it's a case of fixing something that is broken. fw is already fleet/blob warfare
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:24:00 - [137] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? The one and only thing I think we will ever agree on. Side note: We left FW when the gallente corps tried to make politics where none were needed! So apparently there is no such thing as bullshit free pvp, or people will find a way to make bullshit. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:25:00 - [138] Originally by: Miz Cenuij FW was doomed when a certain Star Fraction CSM member abused thier power to ensure that corps would remain able to war dec corps within the militias. There's not much that I agree on with your certain SF CSM member, but on this one thing I do agree with him. The ability of a corp to declare war and be declared on are fundamental to its identity. And the two are the opposite sides of a coin. Were PIE not able to have wars outside of FW, we'd have to consider our future in the militia. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Smog890 Minmatar Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.10.07 07:38:00 - [139] Its great, I love FW, but rewards would be nice... Free ship for killing enemys? My low sec status character should be able to go into high sec Minmatar space!!! i'm killing ammarr for them for the love of god they should show some love Isk for kill amarr maybe???
Liam Liam	Posted - 2008.10.07 08:14:00 - [140] The easiest thing to implement would be an LP store of some sort
Dirk Massive Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.07 08:19:00 - [141] Edited by: Dirk Massive on 07/10/2008 08:21:10 Main thing I'd like to see is fix the missioning for FW, because currently it sucks. The other thing is to reward gaining faction. What I mean is, make it more rewarding. More people would do it if there was some reward for it. As things stand now most FW pilots only really care about the pew pew, and could give a rip about the plexes. Make it rewarding in some way, and nerf the amount you gain from each plex, so you actually have to earn whatever the reward is. Overall FW I think is going well. We have weeded out the weak, and have some real good pilots out there still doing it. And I've had some of the best pvp I've ever had in FW. So for the most part I'm very happy with it so far.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.07 08:35:00 - [142] Originally by: Crumplecorn HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS This is the most engaging phrase for me in this thread, at least so far. All I can imagine now is a giant faucet in space - that streams Velators. Thank you.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.07 12:47:00 - [143] broken game mechanic is broken -
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:00:00 - [144] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Most of the FW systems being .5 would be great. Right now it's mostly pirates trying to bait the FW gangs. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:44:00 - [145] Originally by: Frug Edited by: Frug on 26/08/2008 20:48:41 Originally by: Crumplecorn The whole point of FW is that it is an obligation-free consequence-free meaningless free for all. It's not obligation free or consequence free. It's not "push button, fight, don't lose anything, leave and go about business as usual" You have to leave your corp or have your corp leave its alliance to even try it. All it is, is reward free. It is consequence free relative to low sec piracy. It's also frequently all about the T1 at the moment which keeps it much more financially sustainable than other types of PVP. It's obligation free in that you can get into a PUG very easily without having to contribute anything prior to that. When I look at some of the terrible heathen things people in 0.0 corps have to do it seems utterly effort free by comparison.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.07 13:53:00 - [146] Originally by: Wendat Huron Right now it's mostly pirates trying to bait the FW gangs. I guess that's called a win, win situation.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:04:00 - [147] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: oilio The lack of rewards is starting to become apparent. Every time I see this I want to hit someone. THEY HANDED YOU CONSEQUENCE FREE BULLSHIT FREE PVP ON A PLATTER HOT AND COLD RUNNING TARGETS WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Run around in FW for a while. Its almost like the most logical thing to do is place a board somewhere where FC's can coordinate their times from enemy fleets so as to guarantee a good fight. With a limited number of FC's there's a lot of times when times just don't coordinate, so you have a 50 man fleet on one side and noone on the other or vice versa. Rewards are nice, staged events would be better in my opinion. Gives people a date and time that they can coordinate on, rather than roaming and hoping someone will be there to fight. CCP should stage weekend fights and hand out rewards to the FC who wins. That'd be very, very cool.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:06:00 - [148] How about skill point rewards. Depending on the ship it could go for a few thousand skill points to under that. You would see everyone and their mother join if that was the case. I think it's a very good incentive.
Vixisti dearg doom	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:13:00 - [149] If all FW was supposed to be was pvp, then how come CCP thought fit to add the PVE element and ownership of systems via plexes etc? How would giving LP or isk rewards for plexing make FW pvp'ing risk free? You'll still have several hundred opposition militia online at any one time trying to stop you from doing said plex. No one is asking for rewards to be comparable to 0.0 but some reward would be nice as lots of people like the pvp style of FW as compared to 0.0 life.
Johncrab Minmatar Typo Corp	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:54:00 - [150] A few things need to change in FW: - Systems are now near impossible to conquer. Plexes never were fun but at least people did them because it could get them some pvp and, as the ultimate goal, people could conquer systems. - Even if people manage to conquer systems, there's no actual advantage to it. CCP should consider something to motivate people to conquer systems. Like the losing faction being locked out of stations and things like that. - Finally, the pvp sucks now. At first, everyone came out. Solo, small gangs, big fleets, you name it. Everyone could have their style of fight going on. Now, there's only the wait to form fleets, the wait for the other side to form a fleet and then, you either fight or call it a night and go to bed, after all the waiting. If you like to go out solo or with a couple of friends... you better go stealth or super-nano, because otherwise all you manage is to get kill by the nearest blob.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2008.10.08 05:04:00 - [151] Originally by: fuze Originally by: Wendat Huron Right now it's mostly pirates trying to bait the FW gangs. I guess that's called a win, win situation. Except for the fact that the pirates are seasoned veterans that should have better things to do than ganking noobs, I'd called it a loss with a sprinkle of losers. These forums are FUBAR, upgrade this decade!
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.10.08 07:11:00 - [152] FW was a waste of time to begin with, only was ever going to be something a minority where interested in outside of inaitial casual interest. I feel that I have missed out on one of the 6 monthly content pushes, oh well, at least it gives pirates something to shoot at, it is not all bad.
Flash Bombardo Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.08 08:23:00 - [153] I just quit FW, its too expensive, theres no reward. I was doing a couple of days FW, got blown up then a week missioning to pay for it. It is damn good fun though.
Kade Jeekin Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.10.08 08:48:00 - [154] FW is going strong. Considering CCP's proclaimed objective of making it a stepping stone to PVP. I've seen a lot of people coming in who thought that PVP was full of 'leet players. They've enjoyed the transistion. However, quite a few of them move on again, and not to 0.0, because they can't sustain their ship losses, even though it's 'just' a cruiser, battlecruiser, whatever. Like other here, I'm not suggesting that FW income opportunity should be on a par with 0.0 but it could be competitive with highsec mission running. As to making it more meaningful in-game, I trust that this is going to happen down-the-line. We are only in the first iteration of a pre-nerfed game mechanic. I look forward to its further development. PS These plex mechanics could well be the future of 0.0 sovereignity... --------------------------------------- Outface the depths of evil with clarity ---------------------------------------

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