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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.28 16:06:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Ricdics
(after the three Swedish girls in the bathtub ofc)
Much like a Capital Blob Engagement in EVE, you spend much of the night unaware of everything that is going on around you and then everyone highfiving each other at the end assuming everyone had fun.
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Letrange
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.28 16:21:00 -
[62]
Just a side comment here:
Do any of you find it amusing how CCP likes to make occasionally radical changes to ships and combat, but is scared bloodless by any changes to industry? We've gotten to the point where even the newbie industrialists (and I'm still that) are screaming "Do anything!!!". I mean come on, the Shuttle change and the drone alloy composition change were the last "biggest" changes to Industry. Both of which stabilized after what? a week? Where are the likes CCP Fear and CCP (whichever one tried to introduce the carrier nerf) with their bold ideas for the industrial side?
(not a slam at CCP Chronotis - I just wish the rest of the devs weren't so scared of the industrial side - oh and Dr. E: next time no halfhearted measures please? If you're going to fix price cap or the ore compression problems, do it from A to Z - establish some parameters and run some automated adjustment to the modules/npc-sold refinable goods following those parameters and let the tacks fall where they may).
Mind you they've done so little for so long most of us will probably greet a modest change as earth shattering .... for about a week ....
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 17:15:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Amrumm
'Trusted site' also reveals your current location and corp roles, which I'd rather keep confidential (and yes, I know about locator agents).
And visiting the site, at all, reveals your IP and (likely) your geolocation as well. Honestly, so what? If you are going to interact with trust and goodwill it is a two way street. If you can't trust the site enough to feel comfortable with what information they are looking for, don't visit it. But I do kind of agree with you in some regard. Most IGB websites do a poor poor job of trust disclosure. Most still use the standard code for initiating "trusted" and I know for a fact that it only takes minutes to insert description text informing the visitor what is going on. Also, most immediately require trust before displaying anything. Again sloppy code design as I prefer allowing people to visit and then make an informed decision by clicking a link to initiate trust. Doing it with trust upfront is the number 1 reason I don't bother with IGB sites, it's like saying give me your money first and then I might give you what you are here to see. (I also fully support full disclosure about what information the site captures as well.) But from the commentary that has been posted/blogged the current IGB is slated for death. Which is not a bad thing mind you just the dilemma of what is to be birthed in its place. The IGB is even more a bastard child in Eve than we often claim about our industry segment. (Not an accusation mind you, there is so many aspects of Eve - something has to suck hind tit.) My closing point is: It is unlikely something like this is in MIDAS or is really considered "industry focused". This topic is a digression best served in the Ideas forum or in some sort of CSM thread. (Mind you I also think the CSM forum is being overly used for things better posted in Ideas but tell that to all the lemmings that just can't live without attention.)
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Treenara Mazouk
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Lost Sheep Domain
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Posted - 2008.08.28 17:41:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Letrange
Just a side comment here:
Do any of you find it amusing how CCP likes to make occasionally radical changes to ships and combat, but is scared bloodless by any changes to industry? We've gotten to the point where even the newbie industrialists (and I'm still that) are screaming "Do anything!!!". I mean come on, the Shuttle change and the drone alloy composition change were the last "biggest" changes to Industry. Both of which stabilized after what? a week? Where are the likes CCP Fear and CCP (whichever one tried to introduce the carrier nerf) with their bold ideas for the industrial side?
[...]
Mind you they've done so little for so long most of us will probably greet a modest change as earth shattering .... for about a week ....
I guess it goes to show you that making industry changes in EVE's virtual economy has far more implications than say nerfing battleship, or nanos. The tentacles must be far complex in order to understand what the results will be if they modify ABC or add an XYZ feature.
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Letrange
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:49:00 -
[65]
The only problem I have with that is that it usually takes a few months for the true "flavor of the year" to show up after any combat changes. Because of the ease of through put on the market as it stands, the market can absorb changes within a MUCH shorter period of time.
The ease with which the market can absorb changes and react to them, shows that it is much more robust than they give it credit for. As much as CCP says that they are pleased with the supposed "re-invigoration" of the T1 market, I'm not sure that they followed the market data closely enough. Total time to adjust to FW: 1-2 weeks. That's it.
I may not be an expert in the T2 or Battleships markets but before recent events that enabled me to pursue some Pew Pew, I was a T1 frigate and module supplier in the Heimatar and then Metropolis regions. I worked with a product line: 3 mini frigate hulls, all T1 weapons and ammo for said hulls and various other frigate sized modules that round out the supply. Most of it was priced competitively and allowed for reasonable one stop shopping outside of the market hubs for your frigate needs.
I saw an increase in business during the first week as demand for these hulls/modules went up significantly. Then the market reacted and I went back to my previous rate of sale on these items as the increased supply from other moving into this market made themselves felt. From an industrialists point of view FW was basically a road bump, a fluffy animal that became instant road kill the to the tractor trailer rigs that are the EvE industrialists. The market forces were in full swing. What I'm trying to point out here is that in the macro sense the industrial side of eve is basically idling. Yes there are ramifications, but the market they have developed is so robust thanks to the single server paradigm that even the ramifications can be absorbed in a week.
I think part of the problem is that existing industrial systems were added in an ad-hoc fashion without too many guiding principals in place. And of course when they leave holes that can be exploited, everyone jumps on them and milks them for all they are worth. What I'm trying to point out is that there are still a lot of left over "training wheels" from the initial growth of the market (when the population of the server was too low and NPCs had to supply more than just the blue prints and the shinnies). I think however that the market and logistics forces have proven that they are mature enough that these left over vestiges of bygone days are no longer necessary and are in fact detrimental to the continued evolution of EvE's industry.
It's amusing that out of all of the requests for changes it's the industrialists that are either looking for advanced tools or wholesale massive changes (Dont' kid yourself removing T1 refinable loot from npc rats is a MASSIVE change - In a good direction I suspect) of the type that Noah indicated he was looking for out of the CSM conference, but the PvP guys are looking for ship adjustments.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:53:00 -
[66]
Wow, can I have your children?
That is pretty much everything I said about FW as it was being waved around as the next Industry godsend.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:01:00 -
[67]
Letrange,
I think that is why so many of us were so blindly hopeful when we were first informed that we were getting an Econ Dev. Although after viewing his first couple of blogs, and seeing his lack of willingness to particapate with the industrialist/trader community we came to see that he really wasnt our savior.
While he has done some intresting data mining, most of the conclusions are things that many of the MD vets have been saying for years, without the benifit of his inside DB access.
I think a lot of us were further disappointed by his lack to really understand why things work the way they do ingame. He might have all the facts and figures, but he seems to lack the in game knowledge of the mechanics that cause them. Such as his half hearted killing of the Trit Cap.
For me Chronitos is far more in touch with what we are all about, and I suspect that he has an industrial/trader background to some degree in game, in more than a hobbiest fashion.
--
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:05:00 -
[68]
and yes I am a harsh critic, deal with it.
IMO Dr.E has proved more a boon for CCP's PR machine than for the economic elements of the game. At least in his roughly first year of affiliation with CCP, that has been my impression.
--
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:11:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Treelox
and yes I am a harsh critic, deal with it.
IF that makes you a harsh critic, what am I when I said as much before the good Doctor showed up. Honestly, I tire of the fanboi club that waves anything coming down the pike as the "fix all" "uber addition" and "final solution". What may seem as cynicism is just a blunt delivery of observed realism. The good doctor has provided all that I ever expected of him. Well that is not true, he's not been doing anything public for us in a while and I did suspect that he might do something every so often. However, as I have long stated, his job is to help CCP get a deeper grasp of the economics from practiced, experienced, and educated modeling. If this is happening, behind the scenes, then he is aces in my book as that is all "an economist" would really be doing at any other company. He's not here for us. We just sometimes benefit from his presence. So lose the disappointment as you placed it upon yourself and see things for what they are. PS: Oh and that Eve is no longer the flagship product.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Treelox
and yes I am a harsh critic, deal with it.
IF that makes you a harsh critic, what am I when I said as much before the good Doctor showed up.
Hehe, I echo'd your doubts before his arrival.
I figured I might awell admit that some might percieve me as an ass. It seems neuter the fanboi's a bit when you tell them your aware of your "a-hole" status, and really dont care what they may think about that.
Just a footnote to your above response. I swear Dr.E has been present at every industry trade show this summer season. At least ever industry website seems to have refered to a talk he gives at each show this summer.
--
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:22:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Treelox
Just a footnote to your above response. I swear Dr.E has been present at every industry trade show this summer season. At least ever industry website seems to have refered to a talk he gives at each show this summer.
If he's doing the job of being economist for the back end people (hehe calling devs backend - like that in a very diabolical way) it doesn't matter how much CCP pimps him for PR. Heck, I hope he gets feted very well. No harm in enjoying the perks for those who earn them.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Letrange
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.08.28 19:43:00 -
[72]
What can I say? the most exciting part of FW (for industry) was that we finally got that missing Amarr frigate...
Made some nice isk for about a day of that one.
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Chiralos
Epitoth Fleetyards
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Posted - 2008.08.29 01:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Macon Squaredealer
Long term, I dream of an Eve with player owned facilities (mines, factories, farms) that produces everything else we use (for example, the currently NPC provided trade goods) but that's so far away I don't want to even go there yet 
The "everything else we need" troubles me a bit.
I'm a great believer in the player economy; its one of the jewels of EVE. But let me offer another perspective on player built items and immersion.
I (and I bet many of you) played a little game called "X - Beyond the Frontier". Lovely little space trading game with really smooth animation and a good soundtrack. But one day, I was flying around, and I realised that every single space station and factory was to do with me and my ship. I get flung accross the universe in an experimental protoype ship, and just happen to end up in a place full of space stations ready to sell me a progression of products for upgrading my ship as, as soon as I can afford it. What are the odds ?
That's why I like the trade goods in EVE - they are a reminder that there is something else behind the furious cycle of pod-pilot ship creation and destruction; worlds with trillions of people who must have their own economy. I would love to see the role of trade goods expanded, perhaps as a key component of the mythical "planetary interaction" ... the problem being finding a way to do it without trade goods become a massive ISK inflation source.
Amarr Victor. |
Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.29 09:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Chiralos
I (and I bet many of you) played a little game called "X - Beyond the Frontier".
X2 and X3 are still on my hard drive actually. And while it may seem like this relates it does not. Referring back to a product so vastly different than Eve is inherently flawed. X is much smaller in scope, it is also single player. It is very very balanced to pace the game for one person while simulating life around that player. Eve is huge in scope and is multiplayer. Things that simulate other life, like the floating caravans, I think mislead player's experiences. For the most part the only life of significance to a pod pilot is other pod pilots. Eve's economy has grown to the point that it can be supported entirely by the players. People constantly worry about us hard core traders taking over but that's just bogeyman speak. The more stuff needed to be filled by players, the more players that will step up to fill. There will rarely be any product too small in profit that no one will sell. It's just like life, there will always be someone willing to do cheap work as long as it pays something. One of them "abhors a vacuum" thingey.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:01:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Midas Man
Not sure if it viable but an idea from an old game may be a good solution.
All NPC stations supply things but also demand things.
If it was set up a bit like Hardwar ie for a NPC corp to supply an item it first must have been supplied other items.
For exapmple Joint Harvest Corp supply "Heavey Water" but to make heavey water to sell they would need to be supplied with Hydrogen and Oxygen Isotopes.
This hopefully would mean NPC goods could be and item and isk sink.
Now if tech 1 loot was removed and replaced with the building blocks of NPC items, mission runners could still make money from selling to NPC corps or other haulage type players.
I think this would open up many opertunities for new trade/industrials by making the NPC trade goods much more dynamic and profitable. And would offset the loss of income for mission runners due to tech 1 loot removal and would also improve the manufacturing side of the game.
The money for buying good could come from the sales of NPC goods so no new isk is entering the system and the values can be modified at downtime like the current system.
ie NPC corp sells manufactured item C at 1000isk but buys 1 Item A at 250isk and 1 Item B at 250isk. So there would be an overall sink that can easily be modified to combat inflation/deflation.
I like this Idea.
I would also like to see BPOs for some NPC trade goods.
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Banni Vinda
Minmatar
Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:13:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Treelox
Just a footnote to your above response. I swear Dr.E has been present at every industry trade show this summer season. At least ever industry website seems to have refered to a talk he gives at each show this summer.
He will also be talking next month at Austin GDC. This isn't a PR talk/conference, it is an game-development industry talk. Given by the industry, aimed at the industry. CCP is amongst the show's exhibitors (Booth #600 IIRC, just next to Valve's).
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:48:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Banni Vinda
This isn't a PR talk/conference, it is an game-development industry talk. Given by the industry, aimed at the industry. CCP is amongst the show's exhibitors (Booth #600 IIRC, just next to Valve's).
So, not being a PR event shall we expect there to be no news coverage? Didn't think so, ergo, it is a PR event. The good doctor is not a game developer, he is a professor of some note. Thus the reason for a non-developer to go to an industry gathering for developers is... >drumroll< ... to get some buzz about a game so complex it needs an economics professor on staff. Tada... PR.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.29 14:09:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Banni Vinda
Originally by: Treelox
Just a footnote to your above response. I swear Dr.E has been present at every industry trade show this summer season. At least ever industry website seems to have refered to a talk he gives at each show this summer.
He will also be talking next month at Austin GDC. This isn't a PR talk/conference, it is an game-development industry talk. Given by the industry, aimed at the industry. CCP is amongst the show's exhibitors (Booth #600 IIRC, just next to Valve's).
Still PR, just aimed at a tighter audience intially. You and I both know though, anything special that occurs at GDC though gets reported on MMO fansites after the fact.
--
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SencneS
Amarr
Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2008.08.29 16:00:00 -
[79]
Originally by: SencneS
I post the following as an Individual and not a representative of EBANK, BSA, either of the organization's members or their affiliates.
As a member of a corporation that produces upward of 400 T1 Items Mods/ammo/drone/probes etc, and sells them in various locations I believe I have a pretty good handle on what would happen if T1 was removed from Loot Drops. At least from a manufacture sense. --> NOTHING! <--
I'll tell you why, give it a week or two then everything will be back to normal anyway. So they remove T1 loot, for the most part Mission runners don't sell to the buy orders of that T1 loot because they can reprocess the loot and make ISK off the minerals. To test this theory I placed buy orders for some items in heavy Mission running systems on loot I know drops. (The T1 vanilla version not named) for the cost it would take for me to manufacture it minus 2%. Out of the 7 systems in 3 different empires I purchased 22% of my total orders I placed.
It's clear Mission runners don't care to click on each item and say sell then go over to accept. It just doesn't work that way, it too hard to select 100 different items separately and sell them, then it is to select 100 different items, reprocess them, sell the 6 Mineral groups.
Removing T1 loot drops doesn't mean the T1 industry will boom, far from it in my opinion.. What it does is make it so the only way you can get T1 items for producing T2 version is from manufacturing or buying items that are manufactured. Most of our sell orders are the lowest in the region simple because there is next to zero competition for T1 items. In several regions If you're buying T1 from the cheapest order, you're buying from us. There is a significant margin on a massive volume, but the ISK intake is low per item.
As someone who wants T1 loot to be removed from drops knowing that we already have a head start on some people because all our BPOs Researched up, have 30-50 copies of each, max run. We've already started pumping out our most popular items with the knowledge that T1 loot drops are probably going to be removed. We know that when that patch goes though there will be significant amount of competition as manufactures start producing T1 items.
In a way that patch is a double edge sword for a corporation like us. T1 no longer drops, GREAT! meaning we'll just be battling other manufactures who HAVE a cost to the item, Dropped loot doesn't have a cost, it's just a bonus. However the patch will also add a increase in competition. So it's a bitter sweet victory in my opinion.
Keep in mind that T1 is very much like T2. In which some items just hardly sell. 200mm Armor Plate II has just as much popularity as 200mm Armor Plate I.
Here is my prediction.. Limited variety.. As some items are worth way less then the time and effort to manufacture those items will not be manufactured. The problem is that something like Antimatter Charge S takes just as long to make as Antimatter Charge M or L. So why Manufacture Antimatter Charge S? Same amount of time burnt up making it for what, at most 600K per line for 3 days manufacturing.. I don't think so. Not when you can pump out 14mil per line for the same 3 days.
If they are going to rip T1 loot our, and I hope they do, they need to tack on production times for scale. There is no reason why the XL version of a charge should take the same amount of time as S.
Or here is an idea in case a Dev is watching.. Don't change the times, but change the amount to which the item is produced. Antimatter Charge S, 1 Run produces 400 rounds instead of 100, yeah it uses 4 times as much minerals but it also produces 4 times as fast.
I'm sure manufactures wouldn't have a problem with a Small Item BPO costing more to produce per run if they got more of the item. I should be able to produce 32, 50mm Steel Plates in the same time it takes to produce 1, 1600mm Steel Plate. Make it use 32 times more mins and call it good.
Amarr for Life |
Absimi Liard
Gallente
Confederate Miners Union of Eve
space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.08.29 16:29:00 -
[80]
As a fellow T1 manufacturer, mostly modules for me, I'll echo what ser SencneS has said.
I would like T1 drops gone, but once the manufacturers get into it more the competition will remain just as real as it is now.
Now, I'm happy playing in that field. But it's not going to magically make T1 into a windfall profit-center.
I'm more looking forward to other changes myself.
-abs
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.29 20:07:00 -
[81]
Originally by: SencneS
...
Part of the discussion was to remove T1 loot and introduce economy of scale items which reward manufacturers who can mass produce while at the same time providing niche markets to burdening industrialists. So in that regard, your operation would be duly rewarded with being able to bring items to the market faster, but at the same time allowing logistics to dictate that there will still be markets to take advantage of for the small guy.
In any event, the main goal of removing T1 loot is not to make T1 a boon industry but more to balance out the flaws in the mineral layout and the growth of risk/reward between empire and null sec. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:01:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Treelox on 29/08/2008 21:02:26
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
In any event, the main goal of removing T1 loot is not to make T1 a boon industry but more to balance out the flaws in the mineral layout and the growth of risk/reward between empire and null sec.
That really depends on the perspective of the person calling for this "nerf", and exactly how or even if, CCP does anything to compensate for those changes.
--edit
added to the sentence for better flame baitage
--
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:02:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Treelox
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
In any event, the main goal of removing T1 loot is not to make T1 a boon industry but more to balance out the flaws in the mineral layout and the growth of risk/reward between empire and null sec.
That really depends on the perspective of the person calling for this "nerf".
True, but you have to admit that it does have many other positive ramifications for the entire game. I mean its not the end all be all, since nothing will be. But it is a step in the right direction. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.08.29 21:08:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
True, but you have to admit that it does have many other positive ramifications for the entire game. I mean its not the end all be all, since nothing will be. But it is a step in the right direction.
No I fully support this change. I just think that all the sides that are calling for it wont find it to be the "Holy Grail" that they think it is. It will not be the silver bullet to fix all of their percieved problems.
Industrialist will eventually glut the market to compensate, leading to similar margins as now. Those crying for risk VS reward will find that it wont have as big a impact on mission runners, since now they can mission faster with less loot to gather. I also suspect that in some ways some in 0.0 will miss this, cause now they wont be able to stock their corp hangers with base mods as easily.
There are many Pro's and Con's to this change for all who are calling for it and those that arent. I think a lot of people just fail to see the big picture sometimes, and only home in on what will effect them directly in the short term.
Instant gratification sadly is something that many people hope for in this game, and one thing I have learned in eve is there really isnt such a thing.
--
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.08.29 21:11:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Treelox
Instant gratification sadly is something that many people hope for in this game, and one thing I have learned in eve is there really isnt such a thing.
Ding!
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.31 05:27:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Treelox
Instant gratification sadly is something that many people hope for in this game, and one thing I have learned in eve is there really isnt such a thing.
Quite true, but many of us who have and still are calling for this change have suggested additions into the change, since we all realize its not the silver bullet, but more just a small part in the first step towards correcting the balance.
I stress to not use fix, since really everything is working as intended. Its just that the resultant outcome is not to the majorities liking at the moment.
IMHO alternative mats (in the proper ordering) is a key secondary change in along with loot removal and drop rate changes that'll help bring a little more balance to the current equation. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.31 08:26:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
IMHO alternative mats (in the proper ordering) is a key secondary change in along with loot removal and drop rate changes that'll help bring a little more balance to the current equation.
The biggest problem I see with alternative Materials is the reprocessing angle. Build something with trit alternative, but it reprocesses with the noxc "main" variant. What would be the basis, the NPC(CCP offical) price base? We all know that mineral prices are not really tied to that.
I have brought this up before in private conversations, and someone suggested having that items unique id carry with it, what it was made from, so it can only reprocess back into that. Well I am sure that will be a huge burden on the DB, besides annoying those traders who are in the "buy and reprocess" business.
Another opition I have heard is just stop items from reprocessesing all together. I am sure that will go down well, NOT!
Once again, I must say this, cause I am sure someone will get their undies in a twist. I am all for some form of "alternate materials" construction, but at the current time I cant see a way that it could be introduced without either killing off huge sectors of the trade market, causing more lag (db being over burdened), or providing a potential Philosopher's Stone, that would be prone to serious explotation.
--
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.08.31 12:27:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Kazzac Elentria on 31/08/2008 12:27:20
Originally by: Treelox
Once again, I must say this, cause I am sure someone will get their undies in a twist. I am all for some form of "alternate materials" construction, but at the current time I cant see a way that it could be introduced without either killing off huge sectors of the trade market, causing more lag (db being over burdened), or providing a potential Philosopher's Stone, that would be prone to serious explotation.
I think the easiest fix would be to have an inherent loss built into reprocessing. Have the base reprocessing rate on an individual item level/type/size whatever you want and try to set the level below the 'Philosophers Stone' scenario you pointed out.
Or remove high ends from the reprocessing equation all together, and then at that point the focus becomes on mex and the only mineral we'd have to worry about.
And instead of allowing alternate mats at the point of construction. Place it before and add another manufacturing step. BPOs that allow specific amounts of one mineral to be processed into another.
Add however many layers of complexity you want to the situation, such as only doable in a POS station, lengthy build queue, etc...
*edited cause I can't close a tag to save my life this morning |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.08.31 13:18:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
I think the easiest fix would be to have an inherent loss built into reprocessing. Have the base reprocessing rate on an individual item level/type/size whatever you want and try to set the level below the 'Philosophers Stone' scenario you pointed out.
We already have an inherent loss built into the current reprocessing formula. Increasing it much further will annoy a large ammount of players. Not saying this is wrong, but the rabble rabble factor can be high on the list for something not to change.
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Or remove high ends from the reprocessing equation all together, and then at that point the focus becomes on mex and the only mineral we'd have to worry about.
Ok so what would happen to the roughly(roughly cause im doing it from memory) 8k zyd, 4k mega, 50k noxc, 200k iso that one "normally" gets in reprocessing a Abaddon these days? Would you get their "value", at established NPC prices, in Mex? This would be a little over 100M isk based at NPC price, or if you prefer 3,136,000 units of Mex. Which would be an increase of roughly 4 times as much Mex as we currently would get from reprocessing an abaddon. I see the price of Mex plummetting slowly if that is the case.
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
And instead of allowing alternate mats at the point of construction. Place it before and add another manufacturing step. BPOs that allow specific amounts of one mineral to be processed into another.
Maybe... Not very RL realistic, but that is not the issue. In eve though most things are reprocessable back to their base state, I assume under this idea one can never reprocess minerals back then?
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
Add however many layers of complexity you want to the situation, such as only doable in a POS station, lengthy build queue, etc...
While I love Eve for its complexity, this is T1 (entry) building we are talking about. One thing that will not be to high on the dev's list (IMO), is raising the bar of entry to crazy high levels of complexity, logistics, isk, training, and standings.
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
*edited cause I can't close a tag to save my life this morning
caffine is your friend, my brother. |
Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.09.01 02:59:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Treelox
We already have an inherent loss built into the current reprocessing formula. Increasing it much further will annoy a large ammount of players. Not saying this is wrong, but the rabble rabble factor can be high on the list for something not to change.
Not enough IMHO, there is almost zero loss with skills when you factor out time. One of the few things that are broken honestly.
There should be some random factor to melting down items, mitigated by skills, and removal or lowering of high ends for lower base items.
Meh who knows.... I had more to type but at the moment I'm about it 10 rum and cokes to lazy to type them out right now.
Quote:
caffine is your friend, my brother.
Yet problem is when mixed with booze they sorta negate each other |
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