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Major Aglaea
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Posted - 2008.09.09 01:26:00 -
[61]
ok here's the thing, i don't care if other players salvage wreaks IF they find them with no one around. no since in the wreaks and salvage just disapearing, on the other hand i do have a problem with someone warping in on another player while they are still in the middle of the damn mission and start to salvage. Some players don't have the luxury or the skills yet to maintain all the guns on their ship, a salvager and/or tractor beam, and stay alive. Personaly I think the problem could be solved with a simple color correction. seeing the wreaks stay in space for roughly two hours why not make them blue or green or any other color for 45 min to an hour as to say "mission runner still has rights to these cans" any individual trying to salvage these colored cans will face the same consequences they would if they were to loot them. after the 45 min to an hour pass the cans turn white again and its fair game. That way the mission runner has a chance to collect what they want, if they want it and the salvagers have a chance to take what they want if its left behind or the mission runner runs out of time.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 03:42:00 -
[62]
The only times I was ever bothered by ninja looters was when I was grinding up standings in highsec a while back. I'm in the middle of a mission with full aggro and in comes a small ship that begins to salvage my wrecks.
Ive got an overview full of flashing red to deal with so I cant race him to the wrecks. I'm tempted to pop the wrecks loot and all but I decided against it. Short of destroying my own isk, there is nothing I can do to stop him and that was what frustrated me.
Yes CCP has said loot is fair game but I cant see how it isn't stealing if I'm right there still working away, producing more wrecks. In that situation he should at least be flagged. He wants my stuff? Fair enough. If he can dodge my antimatter and outrun my drones its his
The simple solution would be to flag anyone who loots a mission while it mission is still active. Had the guy waited until I was done, everything would have been fine. I didn't even have a salvager fitted.
Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew! |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.09 05:35:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 09/09/2008 05:41:08
Originally by: Major Aglaea ok here's the thing, i don't care if other players salvage wreaks IF they find them with no one around. no since in the wreaks and salvage just disapearing, on the other hand i do have a problem with someone warping in on another player while they are still in the middle of the damn mission and start to salvage. Some players don't have the luxury or the skills yet to maintain all the guns on their ship, a salvager and/or tractor beam, and stay alive. Personaly I think the problem could be solved with a simple color correction. seeing the wreaks stay in space for roughly two hours why not make them blue or green or any other color for 45 min to an hour as to say "mission runner still has rights to these cans" any individual trying to salvage these colored cans will face the same consequences they would if they were to loot them. after the 45 min to an hour pass the cans turn white again and its fair game. That way the mission runner has a chance to collect what they want, if they want it and the salvagers have a chance to take what they want if its left behind or the mission runner runs out of time.
Miners also need a module that lets them "claim" an asteroid belt, giving him killrights on anyone who mines any ores from it until he leaves.
Oh, and explorers should be able to drop a signal reducer that makes it impossible for other explorers to find the site
Salvaging is its own profession in EVE, and unlike missioning, it's a competitive one. Deal with it.
Quote: The simple solution would be to flag anyone who loots a mission while it mission is still active. Had the guy waited until I was done, everything would have been fine. I didn't even have a salvager fitted.
Salvaging /= looting. As stated before, it's a separate profession and just because he beat you to it doesn't mean he's done anything wrong.
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Major Aglaea
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Posted - 2008.09.09 06:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 09/09/2008 05:41:08
Miners also need a module that lets them "claim" an asteroid belt, giving him killrights on anyone who mines any ores from it until he leaves.
Oh, and explorers should be able to drop a signal reducer that makes it impossible for other explorers to find the site
Salvaging is its own profession in EVE, and unlike missioning, it's a competitive one. Deal with it.
ok now your just being stupid, missions are given out to an individual not the entire solar system so the individual should have rights to their own missions salvagables. of course the only reason you don't want it changed is becase you can legally steal someone elses hard work and get away with it. if things were changed then poor little you would actually have to find a way to make your own isk. you wanna take someones salvage fine grow a pair and do it in lower sec. the reason people like me are in high sec is because we enjoy playing eve without pvp and would like to continue to do so without having to deal with ppl like you. salvaging is not a "competitive profession" is a sorry way of using the system to get something for nothing. as i mentioned before you wanna salvage thats fine, at least wait until ppl finish their missions or go find a place where their are no players.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.09.09 07:40:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 05/09/2008 10:22:35
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Just get it through your head, that you don't have an salvage rights. First come, first serve.. so get there first.
That would be fine if it were true.
What is not true? It's the definition of salvage. What is not true, is your perception of it.
So, to reiterate, get it through your head, and all problems are solved .
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 11:43:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes What is not true? It's the definition of salvage. What is not true, is your perception of it.
So, to reiterate, get it through your head, and all problems are solved .
First come first serve isn't true. I could be there fighting and salvaging my rats at the same time, and some ****head will still show up and try to salvage my wrecks right out from under. Had it happen twice now.
I just blow up the wrecks and let them have agro, but then I don't get the wrecks and usually it ****es the other person off so they harrass me, IN MY MISSION, until it's complete.
Griefer tactic ftw.
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Aiko Intaki
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Posted - 2008.09.09 12:53:00 -
[67]
CCP's stated position is that ninja looting is intended. People comparing wrecks and salvage to mission loot cans or asteroid fields aren't really comparing apples to apples; wrecks and salvage are their own entities. Consider wrecks "player spawned global content" as CCP does, and just learn not to be too terribly irritated by it.
Where CCP fails with respect to ninja salvaging is in the meta-gaming which allows it to be performed virtually without consequence. I don't particularly mean flagging folks who salvage your wrecks; doing so would just lead to more fishing for missioner ships on the part of pirates and much, much more forum whining. I specifically am annoyed by how free ninja salvagers are from building persisting, negative reputations among missioners for their actions. As it's currently implemented, ninja salvaging has a low barrier to entry, allowing for trivially disposable alts and alt corps. The character investment in mission-crashing for wrecks needs to somehow be raised, such that ninja looters invest more in their characters, becoming less disposable.
One proposal to this end which I've made in the past is to allow missioners to use the hacking skill to lock acceleration gates in missions such that it would provide a time sink to would-be ninja salvagers as a deterrent, while also adding the hacking skill as another SP investment for the ninja salvaging profession.
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Immersive
Immersive Technology Solutions
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Posted - 2008.09.09 14:48:00 -
[68]
Got a corp harassing your space? War Dec! --- New to the API? GrabRaw XML
It's coming...
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:12:00 -
[69]
disclaimer
i am just in high sec missioning until i get standings high enough to happy my r&d agents happy.
i was making more isk just running the l3 missions than i was after i took the time to loot and salvage and getting my standings up faster. I asked several people in local if they wanted to salvage or loot my extrazaganza missions and they declined. you might try offering to let people come in an loot your missions and see if they think you are trying to scam them and leave you alone. or you could warp back to teh start and leave them with aggro. or you could do all that and then fit a claok so when they come back to the first room they give up when they don't find you after they had to warp out to.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:54:00 -
[70]
Quote: ok now your just being stupid, missions are given out to an individual not the entire solar system so the individual should have rights to their own missions salvagables.
So? Just because they're given out to an individual means that you own the entire deadspace? Shit no.
Quote: the reason people like me are in high sec is because we enjoy playing eve without pvp and would like to continue to do so without having to deal with ppl like you.
If you don't like PVP maybe it's time to admit you don't like EVE. You already CAN avoid PVP, just only do missions. You're voluntarily engaging in PVP by trying to salvage. If you don't want to PVP, don't salvage.
Quote: salvaging is not a "competitive profession" is a sorry way of using the system to get something for nothing.
Yes it is. I have to compete with other people and the missionrunner himself for the salvage. And it's not "getting something for nothing" any more than missions are.
Quote: First come first serve isn't true. I could be there fighting and salvaging my rats at the same time, and some ****head will still show up and try to salvage my wrecks right out from under. Had it happen twice now.
Okay? You evidently didn't get to the wrecks before he did otherwise you would have salvaged them.
Quote: I just blow up the wrecks and let them have agro, but then I don't get the wrecks and usually it ****es the other person off so they harrass me, IN MY MISSION, until it's complete.
No, chances are they find your complaining very entertaining and want to extract as much of it as they can
Quote:
Griefer tactic ftw.
Tis not griefing. They're telling the missioner that it's pointless to pop the wrecks so that they can ensure the future of their profession. It's no different than lowsec pirates who always honor ransoms.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:36:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 09/09/2008 17:48:08
Originally by: Immersive Got a corp harassing your space? War Dec!
How many times do we have to cover this? Most ninja looters, salvager, ect hide in npc corps.
Gotta love game mechanics set up to reward pussies and cowards.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:43:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden No, chances are they find your complaining very entertaining and want to extract as much of it as they can
Tis not griefing. They're telling the missioner that it's pointless to pop the wrecks so that they can ensure the future of their profession. It's no different than lowsec pirates who always honor ransoms.
You just defined greifing. Actions in which the main goal is to bother someone else.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:56:00 -
[73]
Quote:
How many times do we have to cover this? Most ninja looters, salvager, ect hide in npc corps.
Gotta love game mechanics set up to reward pussies and cowards.
Yup. And it's not like missionrunners ever hide in NPC corps.
Quote:
You just defined greifing. Actions in which the main goal is to bother someone else.
It's not the MAIN GOAL. The main goal is to make ISKies salvaging. Hearing people ****, moan, and ***** is just the very very sweet, delicious icing on top. |
Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:10:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Yup. And it's not like missionrunners ever hide in NPC corps.
I don't support this either. Anyone who's been in the game three months or better shouldn't be immune to war decs. . .
Originally by: Kahega Amielden It's not the MAIN GOAL. The main goal is to make ISKies salvaging. Hearing people ****, moan, and ***** is just the very very sweet, delicious icing on top.
That's not what you said a couple minutes ago. Let me requote you "No, chances are they find your complaining very entertaining and want to extract as much of it as they can " We know exactly why you salvage other people's wrecks. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:16:00 -
[75]
Context, FMJ, Context
Quote: I just blow up the wrecks and let them have agro, but then I don't get the wrecks and usually it ****es the other person off so they harrass me, IN MY MISSION, until it's complete.
Is what you said. They don't do it because they're ****ed at you, they do it to a) preserve their profession by making it pointless to pop wrecks and b) Taste the delicious tears that missioners love to give as they pop said wrecks.
That's not why they salvage, it's why they sit there while the wrecks are popped and make you pop them all.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:27:00 -
[76]
I wouldn't give someone the satisfaction of telling them off in local. I pop the wrecks and just log sometimes, but if it's a mission where I have to retrieve an item and bring it back, I can't run the risk of someone else finishing it while I'm off line.
Waiting around in my mission is most definately griefing. Anyone who comes into my combat zone should be fair game.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:35:00 -
[77]
Why is it -your- combat zone? The game spawned a mission. If CCP wanted instanced missions they could have, but they avoided that for a reason Salvaging is not something you're entitled to, and it's no one else's fault that you refuse to do the mission without getting to keep the salvage.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 20:27:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Why is it -your- combat zone? The game spawned a mission. If CCP wanted instanced missions they could have, but they avoided that for a reason Salvaging is not something you're entitled to, and it's no one else's fault that you refuse to do the mission without getting to keep the salvage.
I keep seeing this argument and its just silly. Its the mission runner's combat zone because it was spawned for him for his mission. Those are his wrecks just the same as that is his loot. They exist because he turned npcs into those wrecks.
We all understand that CCP has called wrecks fair game but there is really no more reason for that to be so than there is to call the ore in miner's cans and the loot in a ratter's wrecks fair game.
The first come first serve mechanic is a great way to clear space of abandoned wrecks but they should be abandoned first.
Logistics deployables mean less grind and more pewpew! |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.09 21:30:00 -
[79]
Quote: Its the mission runner's combat zone because it was spawned for him for his mission. Those are his wrecks just the same as that is his loot. They exist because he turned npcs into those wrecks.
No, if it was the missionrunner's combat zone it would be instanced or the acceleration gate would require a key provided by the agent. It's not. People dropping by others' missions is an intended game mechanic because otherwise it would not function this way.
As for wrecks: Looting flags people because LOOTING is not a separate profession. Looting is part of the rewards for popping the rat (Although I don't think looting should flat people anyway). Salvage is a separate profession that just happens to use those wrecks. It's not loot.
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Major Aglaea
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:29:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: ok now your just being stupid, missions are given out to an individual not the entire solar system so the individual should have rights to their own missions salvagables.
So? Just because they're given out to an individual means that you own the entire deadspace? Shit no.
Quote: the reason people like me are in high sec is because we enjoy playing eve without pvp and would like to continue to do so without having to deal with ppl like you.
If you don't like PVP maybe it's time to admit you don't like EVE. You already CAN avoid PVP, just only do missions. You're voluntarily engaging in PVP by trying to salvage. If you don't want to PVP, don't salvage.
Quote: salvaging is not a "competitive profession" is a sorry way of using the system to get something for nothing.
Yes it is. I have to compete with other people and the missionrunner himself for the salvage. And it's not "getting something for nothing" any more than missions are.
Quote: First come first serve isn't true. I could be there fighting and salvaging my rats at the same time, and some ****head will still show up and try to salvage my wrecks right out from under. Had it happen twice now.
Okay? You evidently didn't get to the wrecks before he did otherwise you would have salvaged them.
Quote: I just blow up the wrecks and let them have agro, but then I don't get the wrecks and usually it ****es the other person off so they harrass me, IN MY MISSION, until it's complete.
No, chances are they find your complaining very entertaining and want to extract as much of it as they can
Quote:
Griefer tactic ftw.
Tis not griefing. They're telling the missioner that it's pointless to pop the wrecks so that they can ensure the future of their profession. It's no different than lowsec pirates who always honor ransoms.
wow, i pushed someones buttons
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:43:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Why is it -your- combat zone? The game spawned a mission. If CCP wanted instanced missions they could have, but they avoided that for a reason Salvaging is not something you're entitled to, and it's no one else's fault that you refuse to do the mission without getting to keep the salvage.
Actually there are a few missions you can't get into without a key from a previous mission. Would it make you feel better if they gave a key out for every mission and only the player who accepted the mission could get in?
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:54:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden As for wrecks: Looting flags people because LOOTING is not a separate profession. Looting is part of the rewards for popping the rat (Although I don't think looting should flat people anyway). Salvage is a separate profession that just happens to use those wrecks. It's not loot.
As I recall, looting a wreck didnt use to flag you. Or was it just a very short flag duration? It's been a long time since I was a noob, and generally I respected other peoples wrecks so it didn't really matter to me. Point is, people used to consider "garbage man" to be a profession. They'd loot the wrecks left behind by other people. Now yer telling me it isn't and never was?
I'm not against "garbage men" or salvagers. I was actually disapointed when they made secure cans dissapear after 30 day of inactivity rather then making them hackable at that point. One mans trash is another mans treasure and all that. I however, like to claim my salvage.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:31:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Dotard on 10/09/2008 12:31:45 All this forum whining has attracted the two headed ninja salvaging monster.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Imperial Servants
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:03:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes What is not true? It's the definition of salvage. What is not true, is your perception of it.
So, to reiterate, get it through your head, and all problems are solved .
First come first serve isn't true. I could be there fighting and salvaging my rats at the same time, and some ****head will still show up and try to salvage my wrecks right out from under. Had it happen twice now.
I just blow up the wrecks and let them have agro, but then I don't get the wrecks and usually it ****es the other person off so they harrass me, IN MY MISSION, until it's complete.
Griefer tactic ftw.
That a mission is underway has no bearing on who is first on the salvage, as you don't get a que for salvaging. He was the first to successfully salvage the wreck, so he got the components. First come, first server still applies. That it's your mission only garantee you the loot, bounty and mission reward. By garantee, I mean you get an option to respond to loot/bounty thiefs and an option to share the rewards with friends.
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Joe Starbreaker
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:38:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Quicksail I would gladly fight for my claims. If the salvager is in a corp then we can do something. If he's not, there is nothing we can do except suicide gank him (if we can, though not really a viable option). Why should he be safe from us?
He should be safe because you are in high sec. That's why you're safe from him. You want to be safe from attack in your NPC corp in highsec but you want free right to kill people in defense of the "property" you "claim"?
The game has places for that, but they are not found in 0.5-1.0. Run missions in lowsec or 0.0 if you want to "claim" stuff in space and are willing to fight for it.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:47:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes That a mission is underway has no bearing on who is first on the salvage, as you don't get a que for salvaging. He was the first to successfully salvage the wreck, so he got the components. First come, first server still applies.
Keep it up. The more people you **** off, the faster change will come.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:48:00 -
[87]
Why is "P1ss" censored but not "shit"?
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Danjira Ryuujin
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:36:00 -
[88]
In deadspace, no one can hear you cry.
Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005 |
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