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murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 08:59:00 - [1] Edited by: murder one on 04/09/2008 09:03:49 Edited by: murder one on 04/09/2008 09:03:36 Edit for spelling. Allow me to explain- I was watching some people play WoW the other day (shudder) and I started asking some questions. About their little quest thingies and their PVP and all that. And come to find out that their end game NPCing that they do for their higher level stuff from quests (not raid instances) is in the Eve equivalent of lowsec and 0.0. So then I got to thinking and asked a few questions. Like 'Um, so you can be attacked while doing your end game quests out in level 70 land?' 'Yeah sure, rogues suck because they sneak up on you'. Hmm. Interesting. So then I started asking about how much of the NPCing and 'questing' was done in the relatively safe areas. I soon found out that it was little to none. All the 'important stuff' (as deemed by the WoW players I was talking to) occures in 'very dangerous areas' they said. 'You don't want to go out there unless you really know what you're doing or you'll get killed' they said. At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever. In WoW, if you want to kill high level NPCs, you have to go out into what is for the WoW weenies the most dangerous areas in WoW, which is our equivilant of 0.0/lowsec. So yeah, it makes me want to vomit, but WoW is actually more dangerous than Eve when it comes to running missions/quests and accessing end game NPC content and PVPers have more access to NPCers in WoW than they do in Eve. That's disgusting. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Sythyss Twilight Trading Twilight Imperium	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:00:00 - [2] it isn't dangerous as you don't lose anything when you die --------------------------- Public EvE Mumble Server -- Free Killboard/Forum/Voice Comm Hosting; Websites at a price
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:02:00 - [3] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:05:04 No. No no no. NO! That might be the case in the PVP server where it's free for all to gank you in cities, woods, your own house and steal your cat. The only danger to "nublets", in normal servers, in those "high danger areas" of questing is, the NPC. Same as with EVE. Except that in EVE, there's no choice if you want to be safe(pve server) or not (pvp server). My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
AlienHand	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:05:00 - [4] Posting in a thread where Sheriff Jones posted... EVE music by me : AlienHand.dk - now with mailling list
Sabrin Kulu Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:05:00 - [5] Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. This is the main difference between WoW and EVE, why are you trying the exclude this from your argument? In WoW if you get killed whilst doing your PvE stuff at worst you will have to spend about 2 minutes walking back to your body, whereas in EVE you could spend a full week or even longer recovering from your financial loss. And in EVE, even if you are doing your PvE in 'safe zones', funnily enough, you are actually still far from safe. -----
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Sheriff Jones No. No no no. NO! That might be the case in the PVP server where it's free for all to gank you in cities, woods, your own house and steal your cat. The only danger to "nublets", in those "high danger areas" of questiong is, the NPC. Same as with EVE. Except that in EVE, there's no choice if you want to be safe(pve server) or not (pvp server). Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm referring to PVP servers, not PVE. On PVP servers, the most dangerous entity to any player is another player from the opposite faction. Assuming he's twice the level... and geared up... and isn't blind... and and and... [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:07:00 - [7] Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 04/09/2008 09:03:49 Edited by: murder one on 04/09/2008 09:03:36 Edit for spelling. Allow me to explain- I was watching some people play WoW the other day (shudder) and I started asking some questions. About their little quest thingies and their PVP and all that. And come to find out that their end game NPCing that they do for their higher level stuff from quests (not raid instances) is in the Eve equivalent of lowsec and 0.0. So then I got to thinking and asked a few questions. Like 'Um, so you can be attacked while doing your end game quests out in level 70 land?' 'Yeah sure, rogues suck because they sneak up on you'. Hmm. Interesting. So then I started asking about how much of the NPCing and 'questing' was done in the relatively safe areas. I soon found out that it was little to none. All the 'important stuff' (as deemed by the WoW players I was talking to) occures in 'very dangerous areas' they said. 'You don't want to go out there unless you really know what you're doing or you'll get killed' they said. At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever. In WoW, if you want to kill high level NPCs, you have to go out into what is for the WoW weenies the most dangerous areas in WoW, which is our equivilant of 0.0/lowsec. So yeah, it makes me want to vomit, but WoW is actually more dangerous than Eve when it comes to running missions/quests and accessing end game NPC content and PVPers have more access to NPCers in WoW than they do in Eve. That's disgusting. effort 10/10 nice troll, would read again. The only numbers I care about are 3-2-1-launch..
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:07:00 - [8] In WoW there is NO pvp "death Penalty" NONE. Its a rather significant point that you tried (and FAILED) to gloss over. Play nice while you butcher each other.
Agent Kira	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:07:00 - [9] Agreed.... The fact that you dont loose anything when you die means there is no risk. Cant be danger without risk. Unlike eve, where you can loose SP if you have no clone, implants that can cost millions and take time to regain, same for ships, modules, and pretty much everything in eve. Even loosing a barge with ore means you have to go out and mine it again. Some stuff sits in the wreck, but not always that much. Sometimes you loose the lot and the wreck drops the cheapest crappyest mod you had fitted. Cap ships, and Outposts too.
Maria Kalista	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:08:00 - [10] Quote: At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. And thus you leave out the most important thingy, why? Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???

murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Sabrin Kulu Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. This is the main difference between WoW and EVE, why are you trying the exclude this from your argument? In WoW if you get killed whilst doing your PvE stuff at worst you will have to spend about 2 minutes walking back to your body, whereas in EVE you could spend a full week or even longer recovering from your financial loss. And in EVE, even if you are doing your PvE in 'safe zones', funnily enough, you are actually still far from safe. Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:10:00 - [12] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:14:13 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:11:18 Originally by: murder one Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm referring to PVP servers, not PVE. On PVP servers, the most dangerous entity to any player is another player from the opposite faction. Assuming he's twice the level... and geared up... and isn't blind... and and and... Then you can't compare FULL EVE to PVP servers. PVP servers are free for all, anywhere, anytime, kill who you want and laugh. That's the equivalent of 0.0 in EVE. But what makes EVE evne "worse" then WoW, is that in our PVE server, high-sec, you CAN get suicided, killed, slaughtered and so forth. Our high-sec, WoW pve. Our nulsec, WoW PVP. WoW has strict boundaries between the two. EVE has none. Or very flimsy, wooden, ductaped together boundaries. So you can see, when we add the fact you lose something when your ship goes kaboom, EVE is more punishing and your original post falls a bit on its face. If you want to compare multiple different server types to EVE, then do it with some form of consistency. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:10:00 - [13] Then please go play WoW if that makes you happy. Honesty, I know Blizzard would love to have you. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Tippia on 04/09/2008 09:11:15 Originally by: murder one My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever. There are a couple of problems with this statement. First, there is no end-game. Second, even if there was, L4s are certainly not it. Third, the really high-end NPC-killing is done in low- and nullsec (profitable ratting, L5s, higher-level complexes).
Franga NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:10:00 - [15] OP argument fails by omission. ----------
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Agent Kira Agreed.... The fact that you dont loose anything when you die means there is no risk. Cant be danger without risk. Unlike eve, where you can loose SP if you have no clone, implants that can cost millions and take time to regain, same for ships, modules, and pretty much everything in eve. Even loosing a barge with ore means you have to go out and mine it again. Some stuff sits in the wreck, but not always that much. Sometimes you loose the lot and the wreck drops the cheapest crappyest mod you had fitted. Cap ships, and Outposts too. It's 'lose', not 'loose'. I'm talking about gameplay mechanics here, not relative cost to the player. WoW noobs cry just as much over getting killed as Eve players do when they get killed. They're just a softer, weaker group of people. Dare I say it, more 'sensitive'. That isn't the point. The point here is how the end-game PVE plays out and about how the PVE/PVP interaction in WoW is superior to that of Eve. Which is upsetting. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Sythyss Twilight Trading Twilight Imperium	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:15:00 - [17] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sabrin Kulu Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. This is the main difference between WoW and EVE, why are you trying the exclude this from your argument? In WoW if you get killed whilst doing your PvE stuff at worst you will have to spend about 2 minutes walking back to your body, whereas in EVE you could spend a full week or even longer recovering from your financial loss. And in EVE, even if you are doing your PvE in 'safe zones', funnily enough, you are actually still far from safe. Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. exactly, the point of the discussion is how safe end-game PvE is compared from eve to wow, and since you don't lose anything in wow, it's completely safe with no danger. --------------------------- Public EvE Mumble Server -- Free Killboard/Forum/Voice Comm Hosting; Websites at a price
Tao Han Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:16:00 - [18] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sheriff Jones No. No no no. NO! That might be the case in the PVP server where it's free for all to gank you in cities, woods, your own house and steal your cat. The only danger to "nublets", in those "high danger areas" of questiong is, the NPC. Same as with EVE. Except that in EVE, there's no choice if you want to be safe(pve server) or not (pvp server). Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm referring to PVP servers, not PVE. On PVP servers, the most dangerous entity to any player is another player from the opposite faction. Assuming he's twice the level... and geared up... and isn't blind... and and and... The most annoying thing that can happen to you in WoW is when a bored lvl 60+ walks by, molests you and then decides to sit on your corpse for a while. But all you lose is time (and some cash incase you decide to release but its hardly noticable). The great thing about EVE is that there are no lvl 70's out corpse camping you, and anyone who isnt a complete tool has a chance to actually fightback or escape if he chooses to do that. The high skillpoint character has an advantage in items and skillpoints but he isnt invincible as the lvl 70 would be to a lvl 20 in WoW.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:16:00 - [19] Originally by: murder one The point here is how the end-game PVE plays out and about how the PVE/PVP interaction in WoW is superior to that of Eve. Which is upsetting. But it isn't. It's different. On a very specific place. EVEs top missions don't stop at level 4 highsec. EVEs top mining places aren't in highsec. there is no end-game in EVE. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:18:00 - [20] Originally by: murder one The point here is how the end-game PVE plays out and about how the PVE/PVP interaction in WoW is superior to that of Eve. …and the point fails due to where the high-end PvE in ≡v≡ is located: in low/nullsec.

AlienHand	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:18:00 - [21] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:14:13 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:11:18 Originally by: murder one Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm referring to PVP servers, not PVE. On PVP servers, the most dangerous entity to any player is another player from the opposite faction. Assuming he's twice the level... and geared up... and isn't blind... and and and... Then you can't compare FULL EVE to PVP servers. PVP servers are free for all, anywhere, anytime, kill who you want and laugh. That's the equivalent of 0.0 in EVE. But what makes EVE evne "worse" then WoW, is that in our PVE server, high-sec, you CAN get suicided, killed, slaughtered and so forth. Our high-sec, WoW pve. Our nulsec, WoW PVP. WoW has strict boundaries between the two. EVE has none. Or very flimsy, wooden, ductaped together boundaries. So you can see, when we add the fact you lose something when your ship goes kaboom, EVE is more punishing and your original post falls a bit on its face. If you want to compare multiple different server types to EVE, then do it with some form of consistency. How about a ding ding right here? Cheers EVE music by me : AlienHand.dk - now with mailling list
Sabrin Kulu Caldari O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:18:00 - [22] Originally by: murder one Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. I would never consider level 4 missions to be EVEs 'end game' PvE content. EVEs 'end game' PvE content is out in 0.0 space in the form of officer spawns and exploration. Because of this, EVEs PvPers have just as much access to the PvE players as they do in WoW. -----
Sythyss Twilight Trading Twilight Imperium	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:23:00 - [23] sorry OP you fail --------------------------- Public EvE Mumble Server -- Free Killboard/Forum/Voice Comm Hosting; Websites at a price
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:25:00 - [24] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:14:13 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:11:18 Originally by: murder one Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm referring to PVP servers, not PVE. On PVP servers, the most dangerous entity to any player is another player from the opposite faction. Assuming he's twice the level... and geared up... and isn't blind... and and and... Then you can't compare FULL EVE to PVP servers. PVP servers are free for all, anywhere, anytime, kill who you want and laugh. That's the equivalent of 0.0 in EVE. But what makes EVE evne "worse" then WoW, is that in our PVE server, high-sec, you CAN get suicided, killed, slaughtered and so forth. Our high-sec, WoW pve. Our nulsec, WoW PVP. WoW has strict boundaries between the two. EVE has none. Or very flimsy, wooden, ductaped together boundaries. So you can see, when we add the fact you lose something when your ship goes kaboom, EVE is more punishing and your original post falls a bit on its face. If you want to compare multiple different server types to EVE, then do it with some form of consistency. I can compare whatever I want. Total server environment to total server environment. Heck, Eve is even more watered down due to the fact that in high sec, you are effectively in a PVE server because they only way anyone can engage in non-consentual combat is to flag themselves by can flipping or whatever, which is exactly the same thing as what occures on a WoW PVE server. How horrible is that? WoW has little towns with guards (Concord) that defend the players in there from the other side, but once you leave the city (undock) to go do anything real/useful (kill any sort of NPC, do quests etc.) then you're fair game. No, I don't want to play WoW, I'm not leaving Eve etc. etc. etc. I'm just pointing out that as far as game design goes, Eve is a lot softer than it should be when it comes to high level NPCing and missions. 0.0 NPCing (ratting) does't hold a candle to empire mission running. All those triple 1.85m BS spawns everyone raves about? Yeah right. Those occur in a handfull of -1.0 true security systems, and thats about it. WoW's cities are the equivilant of Eve's stations. Anything outside of that is considered lowsec/0.0 for the purposes of PVP/PVE. Hell, maybe we should consider having a PVP server, and a PVE only server. Maybe then all the PVE whiners would stop messing up the game. They'd have their own server to ruin. Just think, no macro miners. A real economy not driven by mission running farmers... ahh, one can dream... [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:25:00 - [25] Level 4 missions are high level PvE content? You must be delusional, seek help. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
P'uck	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:27:00 - [26] Edited by: P''uck on 04/09/2008 09:27:17 Originally by: Sythyss sorry OP you fail yup, he was much funnier when he tried to convince us that megas are ships for the "elite".
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:30:00 - [27] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 09:32:01 Originally by: murder one I can compare whatever I want. Total server environment to total server environment. Heck, Eve is even more watered down due to the fact that in high sec, you are effectively in a PVE server because they only way anyone can engage in non-consentual combat is to flag themselves by can flipping or whatever, which is exactly the same thing as what occures on a WoW PVE server. How horrible is that? Forgot ganking, suiciding, etc, once again; Our PVE server is one where you can get killed without consent. WoW PVE server is where you can go into duel mode. Our PVP server is where anyone can die anywhere. WoW PVP server is where anyone can die anywhere, except in safespots. Wow = safer. And... Originally by: murder one I can compare whatever I want. You sure can, but that makes you as equally interesting as a fly in sand and even grass, growing up slowly on a warm sunny day, thinks "Damn that guy is boring." Also, did you know that drinking milk and watching you rant about WoW being bestest game, is equally stupidlooking from space? Also you know nothing aobut apples and oranges 'cause your dad was a vegetable salesman. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Strill	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:32:00 - [28] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sheriff Jones No. No no no. NO! That might be the case in the PVP server where it's free for all to gank you in cities, woods, your own house and steal your cat. The only danger to "nublets", in those "high danger areas" of questiong is, the NPC. Same as with EVE. Except that in EVE, there's no choice if you want to be safe(pve server) or not (pvp server). Yes yes yes yes yes. I'm referring to PVP servers, not PVE. On PVP servers, the most dangerous entity to any player is another player from the opposite faction. Assuming he's twice the level... and geared up... and isn't blind... and and and... umm... no? The most dangerous entity to a player is a mob spawning on top of you. The only penalty for being killed by another player is the time you spend running back to your body. If you get killed by a mob you have to spend a small amount of money to repair your armor and weapons.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Caldari Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:32:00 - [29] I agree - level 4s should be in extreme low sec and level 3s in low sec, level 1 and 2s in high sec. . . that would spice things up a bit. Saddly the whinage would be too great for CCP to handle. ---- GO BLUE!!
Confuzer Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:35:00 - [30] I was playing WoW during the downtime of eve for the first time, and an Alliance rogue came into the start land for the Orcs and killed the Razor Hill tavern guy. 20 minutes later I returned and it had respawned. So no fun really. They should be gone for 24 hours at least! :P ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.

Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:36:00 - [31] Originally by: Felix Dzerzhinsky I agree - level 4s should be in extreme low sec and level 3s in low sec, level 1 and 2s in high sec. . . that would spice things up a bit. Saddly the whinage would be too great for CCP to handle. So instead of having them whining we have you. Fair trade. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:40:00 - [32] Originally by: murder one My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever. High level end-game missions are level 5 i 0.0 - Carebear Pirate -
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: murder one My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever. High level end-game missions are level 5 i 0.0 Anyone actually do those? Last I heard the payouts were terrible. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Hungo Minmatar Research And Tactics	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:47:00 - [34] Originally by: murder one In accurate crap I have played wow for 3 years and i am not ashamed of it, what i shouldnt play it? why? Because u think it's lame? because it's for kid's? Im 23, married with two children n i still play wow, so does my wife and i have two eve accounts. Stop comparing WOW to the cess pit that we love called EVE YOU CANNOT COMPARE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE IN NO WAY RELATED OR HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON WOW is wow, it is a brilliant game, EVE is eve and again it is awsum, i have about 18 friends from my guild who are doing trial accounts on EVE thru me and are thinking about playing. So bloody just stop it, i think the entire population is sick of it
Cryxx Minmatar Blindsight Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:53:00 - [35] Comparing WoW to EVE...fair enough (I guess), comparing a part of WoW to the whole of EVE...now this dosnt work. WoW is a game more based on PVE (dont want this to blow into another discussion) the expansions blizz releases are mostly based on PVE content: higher levels, new instances, new purples for people to grind for so if you wanna compare wow to eve, do it proberly. Also, on a pvp server there are safe places, your PVP tag goes away when you're in a starter zone (I think op till lvl 16 or some such) and as it's been said before, the only thing you lose when you die is a few minutes and perhaps some gold for armour repair. Anyways, comparing games, music, movies etc to others of the same have always, to me, been stupid, if you like it then thats great, theres no need to start comparing it to other things of the same nature, just enjoy playing/listening/watching it. Cryxx ---------------------------------------------- I like to loot it loot it
Andrea Skye Caldari The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:56:00 - [36] Played wow for 3 years. Once you hit 70, theres nothing to do. There is no "end game" for pvp. Once you get the gear you wanted thats it. Nothing to do. And they made it very very very easy to get gear now, so game gets boring very fast. NPC quests are mostly daily quests at 70, which means you do the same quest everyday once. Which is boring as hell and theres no vairiation. The PvE endgame is instance/raids and these are INSTANCED so you can never get ganked in those. Only people in your group can enter. WoW is balls, Eve is awesome, the end.
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:56:00 - [37] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sabrin Kulu Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. This is the main difference between WoW and EVE, why are you trying the exclude this from your argument? In WoW if you get killed whilst doing your PvE stuff at worst you will have to spend about 2 minutes walking back to your body, whereas in EVE you could spend a full week or even longer recovering from your financial loss. And in EVE, even if you are doing your PvE in 'safe zones', funnily enough, you are actually still far from safe. Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. Lvl 4's are not PvE end game. You still got lvl 5's and complexes in 0.0. That you can call PvE end game, as the best loot drops there and not in lvl 4's. Besides, the real true PvE end game in WoW are instances. You got no access to those running them when they are inside. But you do in EvE. Nice try though.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:57:00 - [38] Unless something massive has changed to WoW since the 2+ years I've been playing EVE, a lot of WoW PvE is instanced. That means you spawn your own instance of a dungeon and only your people can go in it. Not to mention if you die in WoW, your priest just comes over and resses you + throws on new buffs in about 15 seconds so no real loss there. The one thing I will give WoW, is that if you want the best equipment, you have to throw your character/raid group out on the line in a long, sometimes very hard dungeon. In EVE, you can solo grind a faction BS of your choice with zero risk. But all in all, PvP in WoW and WoW-clones like Warhammer are pretty sickening. I was almost believing Warhammer hype on SHC, but then I saw some Raid PvP Warhammer vids and I wanted to throw up. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
RagnhildR tu Caldari Rognvald Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.04 09:57:00 - [39] Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! What are you doing in my pod? GTFO!
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:02:00 - [40] I wonder if I actually admit to trolling ppl if the post will get locked. When I get bored I write ridiculous posts to see what kind of responses I get. Is that trolling? On the flip side, there is some truth to the post as far as game design/game mechanics go, and yes, I'm picking/choosing my evidence to support an exaggerated point, but the point is still there. The vast majority of all PVE is done through level 4s, in empire, while completely safe. This is in effect the 'end game' of Eve PVE. Regardless of the fact that there are higher level missions in low sec/0.0. I'd like to see some numbers that prove otherwise. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships

Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:09:00 - [41] Yes you are trolling, it's been clear from the get go, admitting it..well...that's almost bannable i guess, in some places. Saying you create a post just for that. Anyway, the FACT is, level 4s aren't A: safe, B: Safe from other pople and C: Endgame of PVE. Firstly because there's no endgame. Second 'cause everywhere you go you can be killed. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Yes you are trolling, it's been clear from the get go, admitting it..well...that's almost bannable i guess, in some places. Saying you create a post just for that. Anyway, the FACT is, level 4s aren't A: safe, B: Safe from other pople and C: Endgame of PVE. Firstly because there's no endgame. Second 'cause everywhere you go you can be killed. You mean you can be killed if you turn on your PVP flag like in WoW. Right? [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:18:00 - [43] Originally by: RagnhildR tu Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! It's 'lose'. American english is the world standard for english ever since we pwned the English in the revolutionary war. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:23:00 - [44] The PVE part in wow is more fun than in eve. As already mentioned, you cannot compare them because they are too different. Get a grip.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:34:00 - [45] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 10:34:22 Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 04/09/2008 10:34:07 Originally by: murder one You mean you can be killed if you turn on your PVP flag like in WoW. Right? No. you can be killed anytime, anywhere, by anyone, with enough force before concord hops in. Called suiciding. One of many favorite past-times in the EVE Naughty Persons to-do list; EVE Naughty Persons To Do List Kill Kill. Kill. Canflip. Flame on Forum(fof of the month club) Kill. Kill. Do a mission. Suicide a hauler. Kill. Kill. Nap. More killing. Banter on Corpchat how cool killing is. Kill. Pod. Kill the person whining about podding. Gatecamp from 16pm-22pm (lots of killing) My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:34:00 - [46] dude...do the 10 day trial before shoving one foot up your rear and the other down your throat. no, there is no need for you to make another thread about wha thappens when they die. they just get a choice to go back out and respawn where they died OR forfiet that chance and take damage to their gear which they can then pay to have repaired rather cheaply. In eve if you want to pvp, you put your gear on the line. In wow, you can play in the arenas and never lose a single thing. I think even if you lose you still get wow's version of LPs. This thread fails, please contract all your stuff to me before you go play with the other faeries. thanks
Hungo Minmatar Research And Tactics	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:00:00 - [47] Originally by: murder one Originally by: RagnhildR tu Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! It's 'lose'. American english is the world standard for english ever since we pwned the English in the revolutionary war. lol stupid american, English, as in PROPER english from the United Kingdom is what you base YOUR ENGLISH on, just because you so degenerate you have to change certain words because you cannot comprehende logic doesn't eman the rest of teh world speaks like you do Go away gearge bush fan
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:00:00 - [48] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger High level end-game missions are level 5 i 0.0 Anyone actually do those? Last I heard the payouts were terrible. My corp does lowsec level 5's for two things: the LP and the fun. We do 10 missions per member every few days, cash in the LP and sell navy issue ships bought at the LP store. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Hot Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Hungo Originally by: murder one Originally by: RagnhildR tu Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! It's 'lose'. American english is the world standard for english ever since we pwned the English in the revolutionary war. lol stupid american, English, as in PROPER english from the United Kingdom is what you base YOUR ENGLISH on, just because you so degenerate you have to change certain words because you cannot comprehende logic doesn't eman the rest of teh world speaks like you do Go away gearge bush fan Quoted for epic irony. Well done that man.
Benedic The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:47:00 - [50] They are both pretty terrible games, I would also give wow the edge though.

Gonada Gallente Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:49:00 - [51] Personally I like to use the Loose instead of Lose, due to the fact that I am trying to draw out the word, as if I was standing right in front of you saying you loooooose, then driving my fist down your self rightous throat. Please, jump into traffic
Chrysos Colossus Technologies	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:49:00 - [52] Behold the future: World of Evecraft
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:50:00 - [53] Originally by: Andrea Skye Played wow for 3 years. Once you hit 70, theres nothing to do. There is no "end game" for pvp. Once you get the gear you wanted thats it. Nothing to do. And they made it very very very easy to get gear now, so game gets boring very fast. NPC quests are mostly daily quests at 70, which means you do the same quest everyday once. Which is boring as hell and theres no vairiation. The PvE endgame is instance/raids and these are INSTANCED so you can never get ganked in those. Only people in your group can enter. WoW is balls, Eve is awesome, the end. Truth tbc ruined wow with way too easily aquireable rewards. Should be much harder with more world pvp objectives that rewarded you and more player interaction on the game world.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Hungo Originally by: murder one Originally by: RagnhildR tu Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! It's 'lose'. American english is the world standard for english ever since we pwned the English in the revolutionary war. lol stupid american, English, as in PROPER english from the United Kingdom is what you base YOUR ENGLISH on, just because you so degenerate you have to change certain words because you cannot comprehende logic doesn't eman the rest of teh world speaks like you do Go away gearge bush fan Please tell me you were adopted by a human family. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Magnus MacDonald	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:54:00 - [55] Originally by: murder one I wonder if I actually admit to trolling ppl if the post will get locked. When I get bored I write ridiculous posts to see what kind of responses I get. Is that trolling? On the flip side, there is some truth to the post as far as game design/game mechanics go, and yes, I'm picking/choosing my evidence to support an exaggerated point, but the point is still there. The vast majority of all PVE is done through level 4s, in empire, while completely safe. This is in effect the 'end game' of Eve PVE. Regardless of the fact that there are higher level missions in low sec/0.0. I'd like to see some numbers that prove otherwise. I will take it one step further in calling you on your mouth spewing excrement: As if lvl 4s haven't been nerfed enough. I suspect that the only reason why you bring this up is that you secretly enjoy the idea of there being no options for players to make decent money without the ever present risk of getting ganked by you and your merry band of prostate pummeling pirates. Why look for a reasonably fair fight with willing opponents when you can **** PVE ships in your PVP ship builds. All those fresh newbies hiding in their safespace? How dare they! What? Not enough targets in low sec or 0.0 to sate your hunger? If that is the case, then clearly you have not been spending enough time there. I recommend that you try taking on the entire southern/northern coalition (maybe you go for the DP?). Let me know how that works out for you.
Flyer Empire Caldari New World Industries	Posted - 2008.09.04 11:57:00 - [56] I have played Wow for just over a year(sadly) & Eve for 4years. I have came back to eve after the fact at current content level in wow theres nothing else i can do once you've done end game raiding at 70 (and the pvps boring) - my guild & i have downed KJ etc but this is purely down to blizzard being lazy and poor service. If people complain about CCP's responce time then please go play Wow for a day and try and get a GM responce quicker than i ever could do ((8hrs of being logged) in or your petition closes) In my own opinion Eve > Wow based upon content, graphics (yes DX 6 wow graphics are a joke), community & most of all PVP.
Magnus MacDonald	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:12:00 - [57] Edited by: Magnus MacDonald on 04/09/2008 12:17:30 Originally by: Kaivos Another "nerf l4 missions" thread masked under warcraft > eve topic. amen, brother
Nocturnal Avenger Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:15:00 - [58] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger High level end-game missions are level 5 i 0.0 Anyone actually do those? Last I heard the payouts were terrible. You stated: "My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever." Since you compared the toughest WoW npc'ing with EVE, at least test it against what I guess is the toughest EVE npc'ing. - Carebear Pirate -
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:18:00 - [59] A stirling effort but obvious troll is obvious. Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:19:00 - [60] Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger Originally by: murder one Originally by: Nocturnal Avenger High level end-game missions are level 5 i 0.0 Anyone actually do those? Last I heard the payouts were terrible. You stated: "My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever." Since you compared the toughest WoW npc'ing with EVE, at least test it against what I guess is the toughest EVE npc'ing. This, tbh. Lord knows I have no love for hi-sec level 4s, but the OPs comparison Fails It. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Dratic Ascent of Ages Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:20:00 - [61] I've seen many of these threads pop up now and again and the arguments pretty much repeat themselves. In the end it really does boil down to stuff similar to getting people to play WOW or EVE because ZOMG i think this or that game is the greatest. I like it that there is a competitive MMO Market out there and they do differ and its great to try them out and see whats to offer. It just results in people failing to convince people to make INSERT OPs FAVOURITE MMO everyone else's favourite MMO.
TrulyKosh Gallente Solo for UNCLE	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:28:00 - [62] Originally by: murder one The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. End game PVE in EVE is 8-10/10 plexes or mining mercoxit and you won't find those in high sec. nice try, though
royal killer Amarr The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:32:00 - [63] Well, cancel subscription and go buy subscription at Blizzard. -------------------- ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w ding ding! Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners.
Lucas Avignon Avignon Associates Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:33:00 - [64] Edited by: Lucas Avignon on 04/09/2008 12:33:50 Originally by: Hungo Originally by: murder one Originally by: RagnhildR tu Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! It's 'lose'. American english is the world standard for english ever since we pwned the English in the revolutionary war. lol stupid american, English, as in PROPER english from the United Kingdom is what you base YOUR ENGLISH on, just because you so degenerate you have to change certain words because you cannot comprehende logic doesn't eman the rest of teh world speaks like you do Go away gearge bush fan I must point out to my dear American and English brothers, that "lose" and "loose" are two completely different words Ergo your arguing of the correct spelling is moot. Originally by: CCP Prism X Yeah, and while we're at it we can create a controlled environment around account hacking and credit card fraud and all the other EULA breaches..
Pilot Abilene Caldari Serpentine Dream Theory	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:39:00 - [65] End game in WoW is all instanced with 100% safety even on PvP servers.
Anti Protagonist Hiro Trade and Logistics	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:41:00 - [66] Wait...does this mean you stopped permacamping the Decon gate looking for easy cosmos-mission kills or did you just read the forums and come up with the whine that way? I need a sig....
Havohej Comply Or Die G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.04 12:56:00 - [67] Originally by: MineralOel Steuer effort 10/10 nice troll, would read again. This is pretty much spot on. Originally by: CCP Explorer You can still steal their stuff.
Lucyfear	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:01:00 - [68] The highest level gear only comes from Arena and high level instances. There are 6 levels of gear you would need before getting to these items and it means 2 -3 days a week doing high level instances. Charaters level to 70 and from 70 - 125 (virual charater level) is gear. nuff said.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:21:00 - [69] Originally by: Havohej Originally by: MineralOel Steuer effort 10/10 nice troll, would read again. This is pretty much spot on. Two people giving me a 10/10 on a troll post? Really? I think I can retire from the forums a happy man. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:22:00 - [70] Originally by: Magnus MacDonald Edited by: Magnus MacDonald on 04/09/2008 12:17:30 Originally by: Kaivos Another "nerf l4 missions" thread thinley masked under warcraft > eve topic. amen, brother Fixed it for you. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships

Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:23:00 - [71] Originally by: Pilot Abilene End game in WoW is all instanced with 100% safety even on PvP servers. Nah there are many outdoor RAID bosses too... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:26:00 - [72] Originally by: Lucas Avignon Edited by: Lucas Avignon on 04/09/2008 12:33:50 Originally by: Hungo Originally by: murder one Originally by: RagnhildR tu Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:03:02 Edited by: RagnhildR tu on 04/09/2008 10:01:15 Originally by: murder one It's 'lose', not 'loose'. actually It Is 'Loose' The poster is using the correct English spelling. WoW is rubbish, crap, shite, when you die you have a choice come back as a 'Ghost' and make your way to your corpse, or if you died in a particularly tough area you can wimp out and be restored in the graveyard, where there is a slight penalty, Your armour and weapon take a hit to their durability. This is nothing at all like Eve, where if you get ganked you stand to loose millions, and for the newer player it takes longer than a trip to the local blacksmith to recoup those losses. I tried Wow just to see what all the kiddies were squeaking about, thought it was bloody terrible and left. People please send me all your old newspapers it's burn the Heretic time!!! It's 'lose'. American english is the world standard for english ever since we pwned the English in the revolutionary war. lol stupid american, English, as in PROPER english from the United Kingdom is what you base YOUR ENGLISH on, just because you so degenerate you have to change certain words because you cannot comprehende logic doesn't eman the rest of teh world speaks like you do Go away gearge bush fan I must point out to my dear American and English brothers, that "lose" and "loose" are two completely different words Ergo your arguing of the correct spelling is moot. No, I'm arguing with him that he is using the word 'loose' when he should be using the word 'lose'. Not the spelling of each. Therefore, your argument that our argument is moot, is moot. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Minimax Prime	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:29:00 - [73] You canÆt compare these two games. PvE in Eve is a profession to make some isk and you need isk for the fun stuff in Eve: Risk your ships in PvP whereas WoW is all about PvE (which is way more challenging than in Eve). Take a look at: www.bosskillers.com to get an idTe what I am talking about. Stop this silly thread and get a gate camp running!
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:38:00 - [74] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Sabrin Kulu Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. This is the main difference between WoW and EVE, why are you trying the exclude this from your argument? In WoW if you get killed whilst doing your PvE stuff at worst you will have to spend about 2 minutes walking back to your body, whereas in EVE you could spend a full week or even longer recovering from your financial loss. And in EVE, even if you are doing your PvE in 'safe zones', funnily enough, you are actually still far from safe. Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. The reason why I have not fitted a single faction fitting on my PVE BS is to make sure it doesn't get sucide ganked for the fittings. High sec is safe but not safe enough to fit billions onto a ship
Matrix Skye Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.04 13:59:00 - [75] Originally by: murder one ...some silly nonsensical rant... Dude, just get back to gatecamping.
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:01:00 - [76] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Pilot Abilene End game in WoW is all instanced with 100% safety even on PvP servers. Nah there are many outdoor RAID bosses too... He did said End-game. Those out-door bosses are hardly endgame, dropping loot of tier 4 quality. Compare that with destroying a Titan in Eve.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:33:00 - [77] First things first: Where in the hell did the 'OMG this is a pirate revenge thread' fanboi's come from? It only makes sense if you turn your head sideways, get up real close to the screen, and fart. THEN, and only then, do I see the secret agenda of the op. With that aside, lets' also clear up some mistakes. EvE PvE doesn't stop in hisec. In hisec, you can do level 1-4 missions, or maybe a 4/10 complex. In losec, you have level 5 missions and a couple complexes. In nulsec, you have pirate missions and LOTS of complexes. 'High End PvE' content in EvE is out in no-man's-land, bub. Secondly, these 'high end PvE' quests the op is referring to are often in PvP areas. Meaning, you have to go through the remote possibility of running into another player to reach them. They ARE instanced (once you get there), but the region around it can be dangerous. Even on a PvE server, attacking the wrong mob or accidentally attacking a player will flag you (I daresay you might even get killed without being flagged). WoW copied many of it's design principles from EvE, so it should be no surprise if you see similarities. The fundamentals of the games are separate, but the premise for many of it's designs are related to EvE's popularity with a certain hard-edged part of the playerbase. I hate playing WoW, but I have played it. I hate the attitude and stupidity of the playerbase, the forums are about 100x worse than ours ... heck, WoW felt more like a single-player game with chat interface than hisec EvE does. And, WoW requires almost no thought, effort or planning to accomplish anything. WoW is for IG-players, casual gamers, soccer moms and kids still in grade school. It's designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator of the playerbase, it's designed to play on the broadest ranges of machines and hardware, and it's designed to market Blizzard with millions of customers, many of which have never played a game before. It's MEANT to be easy. Easy to make money, easy to learn to use, easy to craft, easy to die and get back up. EvE is the opposite of that spectrum. Or, it was. Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Naga Elohim Amarr Forsaken Death Squad	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:43:00 - [78] FAIL! 0/10! Because In WoW there is no risk. you don't lost anything when you die. At all! If you get killed you just go back to where you were. In eve you have to update your clone and go find another ship (if you have the isk) Dont you ever in your life again make the comparison between the two. Doing so will result in a swift kick in the nutz! ...and a lengthy nerd flame rage....
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:44:00 - [79] Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 04/09/2008 09:03:49 Edited by: murder one on 04/09/2008 09:03:36 Edit for spelling. Allow me to explain- I was watching some people play WoW the other day (shudder) and I started asking some questions. About their little quest thingies and their PVP and all that. And come to find out that their end game NPCing that they do for their higher level stuff from quests (not raid instances) is in the Eve equivalent of lowsec and 0.0. So then I got to thinking and asked a few questions. Like 'Um, so you can be attacked while doing your end game quests out in level 70 land?' 'Yeah sure, rogues suck because they sneak up on you'. Hmm. Interesting. So then I started asking about how much of the NPCing and 'questing' was done in the relatively safe areas. I soon found out that it was little to none. All the 'important stuff' (as deemed by the WoW players I was talking to) occures in 'very dangerous areas' they said. 'You don't want to go out there unless you really know what you're doing or you'll get killed' they said. At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. My point here is this: In Eve all the NPCers can happily NPC in near complete safety doing all the high level end-game missions (level 4s) in high sec and never have to risk anything at all with respect to being in danger from other players. Over and over and over. Forever. In WoW, if you want to kill high level NPCs, you have to go out into what is for the WoW weenies the most dangerous areas in WoW, which is our equivilant of 0.0/lowsec. So yeah, it makes me want to vomit, but WoW is actually more dangerous than Eve when it comes to running missions/quests and accessing end game NPC content and PVPers have more access to NPCers in WoW than they do in Eve. That's disgusting. Oh, look. Another revenge thread. Evil empire dwellers have it too easy. Send them to low sec for a proper spanking. . I support log offs. There's just something about denying free electrons to my computer that appeals to my need for control.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:51:00 - [80] Edited by: Faife on 04/09/2008 14:51:57 you know murder1, i really thought you were one of the more cognizant and literate of the hardcore-pvp clique. i was really disappointed to read this because it makes you look really immature, shallow, and trolly. - -

Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.09.04 14:57:00 - [81] Edited by: Aodha Khan on 04/09/2008 15:00:29 Originally by: murder one So yeah, it makes me want to vomit, but WoW is actually more dangerous than Eve when it comes to running missions/quests and accessing end game NPC content and PVPers have more access to NPCers in WoW than they do in Eve. That's disgusting. How is it more dangerous if you lose NOTHING? Anyone who uses the phrase 'end game' deserves to be banished to WoW hell. Paratwa Recruitment
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:08:00 - [82] Hmmm, now what could be called end-game PVE in EVE? Lvl 5 missions, 10/10 plexes, hunting officers? What do you know, none of it is available in highsec. _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:09:00 - [83] Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. Using this logic, you could have made your OP much shorter: "WoW and EVE are identical. There are all the differences, but that's another story for another thread". - DesuSigs
Tiberius Maddox	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:13:00 - [84] Edited by: Tiberius Maddox on 04/09/2008 15:14:27 PvP in WoW consists of mindless ganking, nothing more. In EVE, you need to think before you shoot or you might just regret it. Big difference. EVE players rage against the people who farm ISK and exploit the game, which is understandable. But some of these same players want to farm defenseless newbies in high-sec, and they are upset that they will now be forced to think before shooting. "Is it worth it" or not, they are probably asking themselves. If the target is high value, then the answer may very well be yes. If it is just a mindless gank, then the answer is probably no. If you want mindless ganking and free-for-all griefing, you probably should consider a career outside high security space. Sort of like -- gasp -- criminals in the real world. Stupid criminals who commit mindless violence in hight security areas in the real world... die. All that said, I do agree that low sec needs to be expanded and seeded with more lucrative opportunities.
Xevan Templar 7th Batavian Squadron	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:15:00 - [85] Originally by: Hungo I have played wow for 3 years and i am not ashamed of it, what i shouldnt play it? why? Because u think it's lame? because it's for kid's? Im 23, married with two children n i still play wow, so does my wife and i have two eve accounts. Stop comparing WOW to the cess pit that we love called EVE YOU CANNOT COMPARE THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE IN NO WAY RELATED OR HAVE ANYTHING IN COMMON WOW is wow, it is a brilliant game, EVE is eve and again it is awsum, i have about 18 friends from my guild who are doing trial accounts on EVE thru me and are thinking about playing. So bloody just stop it, i think the entire population is sick of it Same here, played WoW for nearly 3 years. I have a bit of a laugh at the OP. Great how people who never played the game seems to know all about WoW. 'I looked how other people were playing'. I did that with some friends of mine who play EVE, but that doesn't mean I know **** about EVE. It's obvious the OP is completely clueless (what a surprise).
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:18:00 - [86] Originally by: murder one ....At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol.... IE you realized you wasted your time in wow but are still thick enough to post this anyway. No Consinquence = not better than EvE. EVER! -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Syringe Morphine Inc	Posted - 2008.09.04 15:25:00 - [87] Then...uhh...go play WoW? --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
Candice Dice	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:15:00 - [88] Erm, what are you talking about, talking shit much OP? WoW Endgame NPC'ing is done in instances, a private world for the raid and the raid alone without the possability of Enemy Faction interferance.. there the biggest challenge is 'team work' and 'communication/tatics'. There is no real 'death penalty' in WoW, you can walk back to your body and continue, or res at the graveyard, hearthstone back to your city, make something to eat then go to another zone and carry on.... Plus, you can have 10 characters per server, so theres always something you can do on one of them...and theres non PvP servers. The fact you glossed over these just shows your full of crap. Have a Nice day, Can I have your stuff?
Locke DieDrake Human Information Virus	Posted - 2008.09.04 16:59:00 - [89] Originally by: murder one Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. Excuse me straw man, but you are the one putting up fallacious arguments. Let me make it simple for you. The reason there is more access to PVEers in WOW is because it doesn't actually hurt them to die. AT ALL. Can you imagine eve if you respawned, implants skills ships and modules intact every time you died? No I don't believe you can, but that is the point you seem to be missing so thoroughly. ______________________________________________ Goon FC(08/12/06):"its a trap" "that thing is fully operational"
Inquisitor Apoc	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:01:00 - [90] The biggest thing your forgetting is that WoW end game is almost entirely instance based. I've had max level characters on a PVP server and if I didn't want to get killed I didn't get killed. Take a flight path to my location then run into the instance. If I end up getting killed because a dozen people worked to snare me, oh noes, I lose nothing and can resurect even closer to the instance portal. Another thing is that in WoW even though you can kill people randomly in PVP servers most people still don't because you don't get anything out of it (Unless you have a very pathetic life and the game is really your only chance to feel like you have acomplished something). If someone wanted to PVP they hop in a battleground instance and slog it out with a bunch of other people for rewards.

Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:05:00 - [91] Originally by: Ruze First things first: Where in the hell did the 'OMG this is a pirate revenge thread' fanboi's come from? \ I think they showed up because this is a pirate revenge thread. .
Blastil	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:08:00 - [92] Mission running is easy thanks to risk/reward. when you die in a mission, its just the same as if you died to a player. While most grinding in WoW takes place against mobs, similarly most grinding in EVE comes from Missions and BS rats in belts. there is 'end level' PVP content in eve in massive complexes that have hundreds of ships and tooooo much laaaag!
Doctor Remulak	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:13:00 - [93] If I'm not mistaken, aren't the end-game parts of WOW done in separate dungeons where only the players involved can go. From what I know, enemy players cannot go there, in fact even friendly players cannot go there, they just get a new version of the same area. Also, from the little WOW I did play, on the pvp server, I can safely tell you there is no pvp in WOW. Pvp in WOW just amounts to wasting time. The person who dies has slightly more time wasted than the person who wins. That's about it. Conversely, in Eve, you can't do anything in absolute safety except sit in the station. So OP, you are totally wrong. Good troll though. I'd say 7/10.
Fyrkraag Caldari Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:28:00 - [94] I've played WoW for 3 years and now I'm playing Eve (1 year). I'm not gonna lie, WoW is better, but you do burn out of it eventually. So I'm playing Eve. Eve strengths over WoW: -Sandbox game philosophy trumps WoW's forced styles -High stakes PvP -Social depth plays a much more significant dimension in game strategy -No one is "invulnerable" (you can attack someone of the same race, etc..) -Skill system and T2 fittings cap WoW strengths over Eve: -An actual user interface -An actual system to customize your interface -Superior performance & quality from graphics engine. Hundreds of players everywhere and little to no lag, despite all the rendering that has to be done. -Twitch based combat. Always a delight to beat a superior geared player. -Blizzard actually does a remarkable job at getting a good fingerprint of its subscriber base's opinion layout and delivering. Although 10% of the time to its detriment (the masses arn't always right). WoW's greatest weaknesses: -Time spent -Poor quality players can ruin your day and your life, and you cannot kill them unless you work it out with the other faction :) -Class balance changes from patch to patch more "radically" than anything CCP has ever done with racial ships. This rollercoaster is not a fun ride. -Did I mention time spent? Eve's greatest weaknesses: -Software performance of network & graphics. -User interface -Patch deployment, bug removal, effective processes at improving the software. -Did I mention user interface? SMX - dedicated to faction warfare
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:38:00 - [95] Originally by: Fyrkraag -Superior performance & quality from graphics engine. Hundreds of players everywhere and little to no lag, despite all the rendering that has to be done. There is a good reason why AV is limited to 40 vs 40. 100 vs 100 isn¦t playable in WoW. Battles in EvE can be much bigger than that. The graphic in WoW is old, the game is 4 years old and it shows. It greatest strength is that is "mmorpg for dummies". Anyone can reach lvl 70, no matter how bad that player is, wich why pugs are so painful in that game.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:48:00 - [96] Edited by: Hyveres on 04/09/2008 17:49:28 Originally by: murder one Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. Utter complete bullshit. WoW endgame PvE happens inside closed instances where only members of the raid can enter. Back before TBC those were 40 man , they are now 25 man. They have added quite a few minigames later but if you want to be on top of the foodchain gearwise you will have to raid , the only "slight" danger comes when going to the instance to enter it , and worst case scenario is a 5-10 min delay while doing corpseruns to get in. But once inside its just you and the NPCs. There are ofcourse "PvP battlegrounds" and Arena but as interesting as some find them a 5v5 scrap in a backalley never appealed to me I always liked having a proper battle and the biggest you get them without getting severe lagissues is normally 40v40 in an enclosed area with no deathpenalty. Where people are not really "fighting" they are more "farming" to gain more "honour" and buy items. "I dont need facts when I have the truth"
Armoured C Gallente The Aztecs Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.09.04 17:49:00 - [97] wait what has WOW got to do with eve general discussion !!!!!!!! >>>>EVE<<< general dicussion cant you wow fad go and leave meh alone if i wanted to look at wow craposting i would of gone on there site Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Fyrkraag Caldari Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:07:00 - [98] Edited by: Fyrkraag on 04/09/2008 18:08:24 Originally by: Victor Forge Originally by: Fyrkraag -Superior performance & quality from graphics engine. Hundreds of players everywhere and little to no lag, despite all the rendering that has to be done. There is a good reason why AV is limited to 40 vs 40. 100 vs 100 isn¦t playable in WoW. Battles in EvE can be much bigger than that. The graphic in WoW is old, the game is 4 years old and it shows. It greatest strength is that is "mmorpg for dummies". Anyone can reach lvl 70, no matter how bad that player is, wich why pugs are so painful in that game. No, the reason why AV is limited to 40 vs 40 is because that's the maximum raid size which was what all the PVE content in the old days was balanced for. Consider there are hundreds of people in orgrimmar or ironforge. Their graphics engine is definitely superior, even the 2004 version (despite the fact it's been updated many times along the way). But even the old '04 version "as is" is STILL better. You are correct, however, about the pugs and that the game really is too easy despite the disturbing effect of how few ever get a grip on it. SMX - dedicated to faction warfare
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:12:00 - [99] Originally by: Fyrkraag Edited by: Fyrkraag on 04/09/2008 18:08:24 Originally by: Victor Forge Originally by: Fyrkraag -Superior performance & quality from graphics engine. Hundreds of players everywhere and little to no lag, despite all the rendering that has to be done. There is a good reason why AV is limited to 40 vs 40. 100 vs 100 isn¦t playable in WoW. Battles in EvE can be much bigger than that. The graphic in WoW is old, the game is 4 years old and it shows. It greatest strength is that is "mmorpg for dummies". Anyone can reach lvl 70, no matter how bad that player is, wich why pugs are so painful in that game. No, the reason why AV is limited to 40 vs 40 is because that's the maximum raid size which was what all the PVE content in the old days was balanced for. Consider there are hundreds of people in orgrimmar or ironforge. Their graphics engine is definitely superior, even the 2004 version (despite the fact it's been updated many times along the way). But even the old '04 version "as is" is STILL better. You are correct, however, about the pugs and that the game really is too easy despite the disturbing effect of how few ever get a grip on it. When those "100's" of players start killing eachother the entire server gets 5 minute lag followed by a complete servercrash that can keep the server down for hours. Vote against the nano nerf!
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:15:00 - [100] Originally by: Fyrkraag No, the reason why AV is limited to 40 vs 40 is because that's the maximum raid size which was what all the PVE content in the old days was balanced for. Consider there are hundreds of people in orgrimmar or ironforge. Their graphics engine is definitely superior, even the 2004 version (despite the fact it's been updated many times along the way). But even the old '04 version "as is" is STILL better. It is only fine as long as they are not doing anything like fighting, lag has been annoying in EvE in big battles but it killed prime time city raiding in WoW and it is the reason why it didn¦t return when dishonor kills were removed. "Superior" "better"? Compared to what? Everquest 1?

Alora Venoda GalTech Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:36:00 - [101] not sure if it's been mentioned already... because WoW is sharded, the "dangerous areas" aren't nearly as crowded as in eve. there usually isn't much need to fight over resources. ofc most of the "real" content is instanced anyway, and population distribution can vary between shards. ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:52:00 - [102] Edited by: Hyveres on 04/09/2008 18:52:41 Originally by: Alora Venoda not sure if it's been mentioned already... because WoW is sharded, the "dangerous areas" aren't nearly as crowded as in eve. there usually isn't much need to fight over resources. ofc most of the "real" content is instanced anyway, and population distribution can vary between shards. Ahh to embelish a little. Most wow servers will based on experience never go over 15k total accounts with a far smaller percentage of players online at any given time. At least thats what any attempts at gathering a statistic as shown. "I dont need facts when I have the truth"
Sarin Adler Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.04 18:54:00 - [103] Originally by: murder one At that point I asked them what actually happens when they get 'killed' and if anything of any real concequence happens to them as a result, but that's another story for another thread lol. Big fail, that's an story that has a lot to do. Meaningless pvp does not mean nothing, he awesomeness of eve is you can destroy effort worth months in seconds. Big fail, but good try. --- Alts, the root of all evil.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.04 19:00:00 - [104] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Agent Kira Agreed.... The fact that you dont loose anything when you die means there is no risk. Cant be danger without risk. Unlike eve, where you can loose SP if you have no clone, implants that can cost millions and take time to regain, same for ships, modules, and pretty much everything in eve. Even loosing a barge with ore means you have to go out and mine it again. Some stuff sits in the wreck, but not always that much. Sometimes you loose the lot and the wreck drops the cheapest crappyest mod you had fitted. Cap ships, and Outposts too. It's 'lose', not 'loose'. I'm talking about gameplay mechanics here, not relative cost to the player. WoW noobs cry just as much over getting killed as Eve players do when they get killed. They're just a softer, weaker group of people. Dare I say it, more 'sensitive'. That isn't the point. The point here is how the end-game PVE plays out and about how the PVE/PVP interaction in WoW is superior to that of Eve. Which is upsetting. i love when people start getting backed into a wall they start up with the spelling and grammar Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 19:55:00 - [105] Originally by: Faife Edited by: Faife on 04/09/2008 14:51:57 you know murder1, i really thought you were one of the more cognizant and literate of the hardcore-pvp clique. i was really disappointed to read this because it makes you look really immature, shallow, and trolly. Dood, it's a joke post. I just like antagonizing the carebears. Read some of the replies I've made in the rest of the thread lol. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:13:00 - [106] Agreed tbh. And it seems by looking at everyones answers to this thread, EVE is better because when you die you lose a load of stuff. That appears to be the only counter arguement, especially the first reply. Pathetic. Seems that a lot of people get their self-aggrandising glory from saying "well when i die in MY mmo, i lose everything and have to buy it all again". Thats a bit weak. Sure you lose nothing in WoW except you eventually take damage to your kit and it needs repairing... I think the fact is that WoW remains to be more fun just because you dont have to **ing travel half the damn universe and then spend god knows how much getting your stuff back if you get blown up by some ** thats spent more time ticking over skills than you have. And if you do nothing but Solo-PVP then money sure as hell isnt going to flow from your ASS unless you buy GTCs, which seems additional cost you have to pay out of your real life wallet just to blow up more internet spaceships? I'm starting to question how this is a good thing when it comes to playing a game. Ops logic is sound.
Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:14:00 - [107] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: murder one Don't try and straw man the focus of the discussion here. The point of discussion: Eve end-game PVE is far more safe than WoW PVE, from a PVP perspective. WoW PVPers have far more access to WoW PVEers doing end-game PVE than Eve players do. That is the point of discussion. Not how much one loses from dying or whether or not it's a PVE or PVP server etc. Excuse me straw man, but you are the one putting up fallacious arguments. Let me make it simple for you. The reason there is more access to PVEers in WOW is because it doesn't actually hurt them to die. AT ALL. Can you imagine eve if you respawned, implants skills ships and modules intact every time you died? No I don't believe you can, but that is the point you seem to be missing so thoroughly. It takes time to get back to your corpse, you lose some buffs from consumables, and it's generally a hassle to die. At least WoW pvp requires more skill than "ohlol F1-F8 hope the lag gets him first."
Miss Uylear Caldari Uylears Dream	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:21:00 - [108] Originally by: Armoured C wait what has WOW got to do with eve general discussion !!!!!!!! >>>>EVE<<< general dicussion cant you wow fad go and leave meh alone if i wanted to look at wow craposting i would of gone on there site Hear Hear! WoW is WoW and EVE is EVE. The two are different. Its why they have different names, different developers and different players. You cant put these two in juxtaposition unless you're a complete and utter moron who thinks that comparing bread to cheese, milk to water is intelligent. They are tow different products! Hear Hear Armoured C, bravo! I see no man like man see's me.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:21:00 - [109] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex It takes time to get back to your corpse, you lose some buffs from consumables, and it's generally a hassle to die. At least WoW pvp requires more skill than "ohlol F1-F8 hope the lag gets him first." More skill? Sorry, but I got to know what you define as skill? Mobbing around in the middle of a battlegrounds making sure you only fight players of lower level, so you're guaranteed a win? Spamming fear as a warlock, or your mage spamming the sht out of fireballs? WoW PvP was the easiest I've ever gotten into and succeeded with. Lowly Hunter, just had to sit on a cliff and take pop shots, or go rogue hunting with flare and a couple traps. If all your doing is hitting F1-F8 in EvE, I feel for ya. Originally by:* CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:21:00 - [110] Originally by: Reven Cordelle Agreed tbh. And it seems by looking at everyones answers to this thread, EVE is better because when you die you lose a load of stuff. That appears to be the only counter arguement, especially the first reply. Pathetic. Seems that a lot of people get their self-aggrandising glory from saying "well when i die in MY mmo, i lose everything and have to buy it all again". Thats a bit weak. Sure you lose nothing in WoW except you eventually take damage to your kit and it needs repairing... I think the fact is that WoW remains to be more fun just because you dont have to **ing travel half the damn universe and then spend god knows how much getting your stuff back if you get blown up by some ** thats spent more time ticking over skills than you have. And if you do nothing but Solo-PVP then money sure as hell isnt going to flow from your ASS unless you buy GTCs, which seems additional cost you have to pay out of your real life wallet just to blow up more internet spaceships? I'm starting to question how this is a good thing when it comes to playing a game. Ops logic is sound. If I had my 20 sided die handy, I'd throw it at you... Hard. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint

Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:23:00 - [111] Well for me eve has 1 thing that no other mmo matches. Economic warfare the art of manipulating the market on a large scale. You dont see that anywhere else :) "I dont need facts when I have the truth"
Gojyu Ever Flow HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:35:00 - [112] When I die in WoW, I spend two minutes running back to my corpse. When I die in eve, with insurance, I spend an hour running missions. Omg, eve is clearly the superior mmorpg, as it has REAL consequences to death
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:38:00 - [113] end game NPC's = Officer Mobs, Not lvl 4 mission rats. _
SPIONKOP Caldari PIZZALUVERS	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:44:00 - [114] Oh god another eve sucks, this is WOW this is shit *****s ***s *****s. Enough of these posts already. Please. --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:49:00 - [115] WoW sucks the snot out of a mad cows nose. .
Xavier Zedicus Aliastra	Posted - 2008.09.04 20:59:00 - [116] Originally by: Fyrkraag Eve's greatest weaknesses: -Software performance of network & graphics. -User interface -Patch deployment, bug removal, effective processes at improving the software. -Did I mention user interface? Your doing it wrong... EvEs graphics pretty much kick WoW's graphics ass.
Creed Richards Minmatar H A V O C The Cadre.	Posted - 2008.09.04 21:12:00 - [117] Edited by: Creed Richards on 04/09/2008 21:13:00 You are comparing what is undeinably EVE's greatest weakness (and is not a focus) against WOW's greatest strength (and PVE is WOW's focus). It's not really a fair comparision The core to EVE endgame is taking, holding and improving territory, and nothing to my knowledge is comparable in WOW. WOW is it's own game and it's own strengths, as is EVE, I'd probably never play the former, but I respect it regardless.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.04 21:28:00 - [118] Originally by: Xavier Zedicus Originally by: Fyrkraag Eve's greatest weaknesses: -Software performance of network & graphics. -User interface -Patch deployment, bug removal, effective processes at improving the software. -Did I mention user interface? Your doing it wrong... EvEs graphics pretty much kick WoW's graphics ass. This. WoW's graphics are pretty mediocre. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:07:00 - [119] Originally by: Sythyss it isn't dangerous as you don't lose anything when you die It isn't really dangerous in EvE either if you know what you are doing. My biggest personal fear in eve is not so much losing my ship but the fact that I am going to have to through the lagged out market menus again to refit a new one. Once you make isk in this game, the supposed risky stuff seems like child's play and no different than games like Wow or Dark age of Camelot. The latter being a more fun pvp game than eve.
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:10:00 - [120] Originally by: Creed Richards Edited by: Creed Richards on 04/09/2008 21:13:00 You are comparing what is undeinably EVE's greatest weakness (and is not a focus) against WOW's greatest strength (and PVE is WOW's focus). It's not really a fair comparision The core to EVE endgame is taking, holding and improving territory, and nothing to my knowledge is comparable in WOW. WOW is it's own game and it's own strengths, as is EVE, I'd probably never play the former, but I respect it regardless. If economics is regarded as PvE then EvE is >>>>>>> WoW, try making money by building stuff with engineering in WoW. Not to mention WoWs biggest flaw, realms with unbalanced A/H ratio. A small fraction in WoW can have as low as 500 active players at Weekend evenings, EvE has up to nearly 40 000 characters online at most. The difference in how the economics works couldn¦t be bigger. Not to mention that WoW World pvp is dead when one fraction is much bigger than the order.

Adam Kirwen	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:22:00 - [121] Couldn't be bothered to read it all but...ROFL at the OP who thinks that end game in WoW is doing quests and end game in Eve is level 4 missions. I LOL'd! In end-game in WoW (raiding) it is completely impossible to get attacked by any player. Also, you can't die in WoW - you just get delayed from playing for about 2 minutes. So many other things were wrong too but it all made me laugh a lot. Good job at making yourself and your corp look ridiculous!
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:52:00 - [122] Originally by: Adam Kirwen So many other things were wrong too but it all made me laugh a lot. Good job at making yourself and your corp look ridiculous! Right, he should have hid behind an alt like you are.
Adam Kirwen	Posted - 2008.09.04 22:58:00 - [123] Nope this is my main. I wouldn't need to hide behind an alt just to point out what a ridiculous thread this is!
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:00:00 - [124] Edited by: Shagrath Neptune on 04/09/2008 23:02:04 Originally by: Adam Kirwen Nope this is my main. I wouldn't need to hide behind an alt just to point out what a ridiculous thread this is! Is it? I apologize then Edit: However, i do think he had a point that Eve isn't nearly as "cold and harsh" as people on the forums try to make it out to be. Like i said in my previous post, once you make isk, the risks become pretty minimal.
Adam Kirwen	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:20:00 - [125] Originally by: Shagrath Neptune Is it? I apologize then Quote: That's the difference between an Eve board and a WoW board right there!
Feilamya Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:32:00 - [126] Edited by: Feilamya on 04/09/2008 23:32:35 I never touched WoW ... I may be totally wrong, but I think the "high level danger areas" on the WoW PVP areas are similar to the Atlantis zones in DAoC on the PVP servers. That's where you had to go to get all the high end gear. Like WoW, DAoC had no death penalty (at least none that hurt). However, if you got ganked again and again and again while trying to get Atlantis artifacts, you couldn't get them, and you were doomed forever to PVP in crappy gear, which IS a death penalty of a sort. And as you can imagine, whenever one of the most wanted or most rare artifacts had spawned, all hell broke lose when everyone on the server rushed for it and all of them were beating the shit out of each other until the less patient groups logged off in frustration. With enough patience, anyone could eventually get the gear he wanted, but not without a lot of fighting. If you had a PVPer's attitude ("I don't need the shiny stuff to kill something"), you could have a lot of fun in this game. If you were a carebear ("Boohoo! I can't PVP because I can't get items because I always get ganked! Unfair!") ... well ... guess why the population of the server eventually dropped to zero, which is why I left. In EVE, everyone can get the gear he needs for PVP by grinding missions in safe space (highsec IS safe space for anyone who is not completely dumb) with an alt, so he can buy new PVP ships. That's fair! ... and boring. I don't know about WoW, but if the OP's point is that EVE is a carebear game, then he's right.
Shagrath Neptune Series of Tubes	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:58:00 - [127] Edited by: Shagrath Neptune on 04/09/2008 23:59:15 Originally by: Feilamya Edited by: Feilamya on 04/09/2008 23:32:35 I never touched WoW ... I may be totally wrong, but I think the "high level danger areas" on the WoW PVP areas are similar to the Atlantis zones in DAoC on the PVP servers. That's where you had to go to get all the high end gear. Like WoW, DAoC had no death penalty (at least none that hurt). However, if you got ganked again and again and again while trying to get Atlantis artifacts, you couldn't get them, and you were doomed forever to PVP in crappy gear, which IS a death penalty of a sort. And as you can imagine, whenever one of the most wanted or most rare artifacts had spawned, all hell broke lose when everyone on the server rushed for it and all of them were beating the shit out of each other until the less patient groups logged off in frustration. With enough patience, anyone could eventually get the gear he wanted, but not without a lot of fighting. If you had a PVPer's attitude ("I don't need the shiny stuff to kill something"), you could have a lot of fun in this game. If you were a carebear ("Boohoo! I can't PVP because I can't get items because I always get ganked! Unfair!") ... well ... guess why the population of the server eventually dropped to zero, which is why I left. In EVE, everyone can get the gear he needs for PVP by grinding missions in safe space (highsec IS safe space for anyone who is not completely dumb) with an alt, so he can buy new PVP ships. That's fair! ... and boring. I don't know about WoW, but if the OP's point is that EVE is a carebear game, then he's right. Interesting points you made about DAOC and Trials of Atlantis expansion. I would just like to add that if the EvE player base feels the carebears in this game are pathetic, they should have spent a year or two in DAOC and got a sample of the whimpy player base that game had. DAOC was a game that the only penalty you received when you died in pvp was a loss of buffs and you respawned back at the keep. That was all. However, they cried and cried about how unfair the game was and how they didn't like to die by being "zerged down" or that stealthers were too powerful ect ect ect........... I guess the only point I am trying to make is even though you view the carebears in EvE as being whiny, trust me, they are much much worse in other games. So give eve carebears a hug and stop hating on them so much.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.09.04 23:59:00 - [128] Frankly I think that a large number of the responses to the original post are quite amusing. I designed the OP with some obvious omissions and with quite a bit of sarcasm and exaggeration to make a point. Most amusing is how many people took the bait with all of their hyperbole and rhetoric. That so many people would respond like they did kind of proves my point. Most (if not nearly all) of the posts get bogged down in minutia about comparing the details of WoW and Eve and so on. Whas the OP inflammatory? Yes. Was it antagonistic? Yes. Did I leave out some obvious key points on both sides of the comparison? Of course I did, on purpose. I exaggerated the argument to make a (somewhat sarcastic) point. But on the flipside, I kind of like where the discussion is going, if only the posters would stop attacking me and telling me how stupid I am, and would actually have a discussion about Eve and it's PVE and how the game design is and how the majority of PVE players play the game. Notice that I said 'majority of PVE players'. Not 'end game', not whatever it is you want to define as what you do. Let's discuss how the majority of PVE players (dare I say, carebears) interface with Eve's game design. To wit: how they play the game. Are they in low sec and 0.0 doing high-end exploration content/farming high level plexes and running super challenging level five missions? Or are they doing something else? Then let's explore why they're doing what they're doing, and then let's do a cost/benefit analysis for this type of behaviour as it affects the game as a whole, when combining the end result with the rest of Eve's game design systems (PVP, mining, industry, market). I think it's really funny that nearly everyone gets hung up on the style and prose of the original post and argues details about it and tries to pick it apart instead of picking up on the overarching idea behind it and discussing that instead. I guess I give everyone on the forums too much credit and need to start spoon feeding concepts in the most simple fashion possible or it won't be understood. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Adam Kirwen	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:11:00 - [129] LOL. Oh dear
Sasha Renforth	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:20:00 - [130] Level 5 missions are in low sec. Any mission can be interrupted. Anybody can die anywhere for the right price. Go flip a can already...

Hieronimus Rex Minmatar Infinitus Sapientia New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:28:00 - [131] Edited by: Hieronimus Rex on 05/09/2008 01:32:26 Originally by: Ruze More skill? Sorry, but I got to know what you define as skill? Mobbing around in the middle of a battlegrounds making sure you only fight players of lower level, so you're guaranteed a win? Spamming fear as a warlock, or your mage spamming the sht out of fireballs? WoW PvP was the easiest I've ever gotten into and succeeded with. Lowly Hunter, just had to sit on a cliff and take pop shots, or go rogue hunting with flare and a couple traps. If all your doing is hitting F1-F8 in EvE, I feel for ya. Oh sorry I forgot I sometimes use alt F1-F5 as well. In any game you can kill noobs. This has nothing at all to do with the level of skill involved when the best players compete - in WoW this is 5v5 arena. There is a clear ranking so if you want you can quickly find the best pvpers (on a server). In EVE I have no idea how you'd find the most skilled pvpers (BoB maybe...who knows). Yeah...spam fear and then enjoy diminishing returns when it stops working the 4th time. Timing (reflexes) and position matters far more in WoW, skill required for EVE's EW pales in comparison to skill required for WoW's interrupts (you have to recognize more than just ship class). Originally by:* Xavier Zedicus Originally by: Fyrkraag Eve's greatest weaknesses: -Software performance of network & graphics. -User interface -Patch deployment, bug removal, effective processes at improving the software. -Did I mention user interface? Your doing it wrong... EvEs graphics pretty much kick WoW's graphics ass. Are you serious? Wow...I get to look at yet another nondescript gas cloud with a big bright light in the middle. Oooh, look some more generic rocks. I could enjoy the spaceship graphics...too bad everything is so far away you can't see anything in combat.
RaBiDdoG Evil ALT Corp Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.05 01:57:00 - [132] <- Posts in his very first epic thread. --- ohnoes!
Trathen Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.09.05 02:30:00 - [133] Originally by: Hieronimus Rex Oh sorry I forgot I sometimes use alt F1-F5 as well. In any game you can kill noobs. This has nothing at all to do with the level of skill involved when the best players compete - in WoW this is 5v5 arena. There is a clear ranking so if you want you can quickly find the best pvpers (on a server). In EVE I have no idea how you'd find the most skilled pvpers (BoB maybe...who knows). Yeah...spam fear and then enjoy diminishing returns when it stops working the 4th time. Timing (reflexes) and position matters far more in WoW, skill required for EVE's EW pales in comparison to skill required for WoW's interrupts (you have to recognize more than just ship class). Now that's a cheap shot. After all, EVE might be the only game where PvP has such little interaction that people can actually dual box PvP to each character's full potential. But that's like making fun of a baby for being stupid: everyone knows it. Its all about planning, man. _
Daily Essentials	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:31:00 - [134] Edited by: Daily Essentials on 05/09/2008 03:31:11 "In WoW, if you want to kill high level NPCs, you have to go out into what is for the WoW weenies the most dangerous areas in WoW, which is our equivilant of 0.0/lowsec." PvP and PvE are clearly seperated, even on the world PvP servers due to battleground and arena instances drawing the pvp action away. Back in the beginning days of WoW your above statement was very true, but those days have been gone for years now in WoW.
Taedrin Gallente 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:34:00 - [135] Bah! If you are going to claim that WoW is better than EVE, at least do it properly! WoW's strong points are NOT the fact that you can get killed by a level 60/70/80 rogue while trying to quest/grind. A few of WoW's strong points are: Elaborate storytelling Vibrant world with beautiful art Diverse range of combat abilities Storytelling: Seriously, if you actually read the text to those quests you are grinding, there's an interesting story to be learned there. You learn about the struggles that a particular faction is suffering through, and as you progress through the quests, you slowly solve their problems for them. The best example of this, IMO, are all the quests related to the "Defias Brotherhood" that the Alliance get. What appears on the surface to be no more than a band of brigands and bandits, turns out to be a treacherous coup d'etat planned by the builders of Stormwind. The closest EVE gets to this is with multi-step storyline missions. Vibrant world with beautiful art: OK, so this is more of a preference, but the art in WoW is beautiful. The scenery is breathtaking. They have a carefully crafted scene, designed to tell you the story of that particular zone/instance, and it sets the mood for that area perfectly. Here in EVE, we get a couple .BMP files that wrap around themselves. Diverse range of combat abilities: In WoW, each class gets a wide range of powerful abilities, that when used in the correct manner and at the correct time, can make or break your struggle to win. You have abilities that make your enemy run away, force them to stay still, abilities which can be interrupted, abilities which can't be interrupted, abilities which have to be positioned in a particular manner. Though EVE has been improving here over time, most of EVE's combat is composed of F1, F2, F3, etc... Now, obviously, EVE has it's saving graces too, but we all know what those are: Rich player-influenced history Territorial struggles that manifest themselves across huge areas An economy driven almost entirely by players from top to bottom Skill based system that lets even noobs contribute to the fight in meaningful ways and many other things that are just too numerous to mention.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:49:00 - [136] ummm 0.0 complexes where that a-type/x-type loot is anyone? oh right 0.0 is the safest place in eve
diabolic clone Amarr Anomaly Collective	Posted - 2008.09.05 03:54:00 - [137] End game EVE is seriously lacking and it caters way to much to casual players. I got drawn in because of its originality and sheer size was a very nice differance between the clone that all other games tend to be. After a while it gets stale, join corporation, gank noobs, listen to nerds scream PWNED and LULZ over voice comm at their computers over something they've done thousands of times. Pretty sure my account time is ticking off don't see myself renewing it anytime soon think I'll look for something that is supported by SwitchBlade software with a differant community where it isn't just 'hardcore' casual nerds pwning 'carebear' face.
Highwind Cid	Posted - 2008.09.05 04:05:00 - [138] Originally by: Feilamya Edited by: Feilamya on 04/09/2008 23:32:35 I never touched WoW ... I may be totally wrong, but I think the "high level danger areas" on the WoW PVP areas are similar to the Atlantis zones in DAoC on the PVP servers. That's where you had to go to get all the high end gear. Like WoW, DAoC had no death penalty (at least none that hurt). However, if you got ganked again and again and again while trying to get Atlantis artifacts, you couldn't get them, and you were doomed forever to PVP in crappy gear, which IS a death penalty of a sort. And as you can imagine, whenever one of the most wanted or most rare artifacts had spawned, all hell broke lose when everyone on the server rushed for it and all of them were beating the shit out of each other until the less patient groups logged off in frustration. With enough patience, anyone could eventually get the gear he wanted, but not without a lot of fighting. If you had a PVPer's attitude ("I don't need the shiny stuff to kill something"), you could have a lot of fun in this game. If you were a carebear ("Boohoo! I can't PVP because I can't get items because I always get ganked! Unfair!") ... well ... guess why the population of the server eventually dropped to zero, which is why I left. In EVE, everyone can get the gear he needs for PVP by grinding missions in safe space (highsec IS safe space for anyone who is not completely dumb) with an alt, so he can buy new PVP ships. That's fair! ... and boring. I don't know about WoW, but if the OP's point is that EVE is a carebear game, then he's right. That's one turn off about WoW to me is the "bigger is better" deal with no reflection on certain tactics/strategies for the 'underdog' to win. That in the ridiculous amount of grind you have to do to get certain pieces of gear. My friend briefly went over some honor system and pretty much laid out how much he makes per 'battle' thing and how much he needs to get a certain piece. The amount of 'battles' he would have to do was just too much for me to hold interest. Maybe I'm just more of an RTS guy, quick, rich, deep strategic gaming. After all Eve is good an all but sometimes I won't log since I don't wanna mission or run around by myself since most people run around for 2~3 hours.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.05 04:27:00 - [139] The OP has failed beyond belief http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Victor Forge Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.05 06:33:00 - [140] Edited by: Victor Forge on 05/09/2008 06:34:08 Originally by: Taedrin Vibrant world with beautiful art: OK, so this is more of a preference, but the art in WoW is beautiful. The scenery is breathtaking. They have a carefully crafted scene, designed to tell you the story of that particular zone/instance, and it sets the mood for that area perfectly. Here in EVE, we get a couple .BMP files that wrap around themselves. . You can take a screenshoot anywhere with any ship in the middle of it, and it is more than good enough to use as a wallpaper. Yes even Minmatar ships! When CCP promotes EvE they don¦t need to do movies Blizzard does, they simply shows off the graphic in the game. Things in WoW looks like something a axeman has made and that goes in particular for the surroundings. Round, circle shaped object in WoW like barrels, wheels etc. are not round or circleshaped, they are made up of octagons! Durotar, Barrens, Orgrimmar, Desolace, Thousand needles, beginners area for most Horde aren¦t what I will call "beutiful". The graphic is there to tell you that you are in area X and thats it. Combat in EvE is similar to raiding WoW, it is indeed F1-F8 but also one hell of a group effort. But unlike raiding in WoW "raiding" in EvE isn¦t vs scripted encounters, it is vs other players. And raiding in WoW doesn¦t really need many abilities, 3 buttons used isn¦t unusual in "high"-end raiding. The best dps-locks in Brutallus encounters used 1 button. They spammed shadowbolts for the entire combat. In EvE each ship has their roles, can¦t say that about classes in WoW. If you are bringing a battleship to the battle no one demands you to tackle or stay back and repair Carriers. Players have no influence in the storytelling in WoW, pvp there isn¦t moving any borders or crush any empires like it happens in 0.0 space in EvE. The of player chosen spots for pvp in WoW like Crossroads and Hillsbrad hasn¦t influenced the story at all. All this and a dead World pvp because of Blizzards incompentence, lack of will or "everything is fine" attitude, to make factions balanced. In EvE you chose your friends and to some extent your enemys. In WoW you faction can be outnumbered 3 to 1 and you have absolutly no influence over that. Blizzards responce to that has over four years been "those numbers aren¦t correct" or "working as intended". Such total ignorance can¦t CCP be blamed for. CCP can be blamed for listen to wrong people sometimes, but they DO listen.

Gamesguy Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:06:00 - [141] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton ummm 0.0 complexes where that a-type/x-type loot is anyone? oh right 0.0 is the safest place in eve You mean the ones that drop from exploration sites that yield less isk/hour than L4 missioning or ratting? Those plexes?
Ecks Orion	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:41:00 - [142] Originally by: murder one Originally by: Agent Kira Agreed.... The fact that you dont loose anything when you die means there is no risk. Cant be danger without risk. Unlike eve, where you can loose SP if you have no clone, implants that can cost millions and take time to regain, same for ships, modules, and pretty much everything in eve. Even loosing a barge with ore means you have to go out and mine it again. Some stuff sits in the wreck, but not always that much. Sometimes you loose the lot and the wreck drops the cheapest crappyest mod you had fitted. Cap ships, and Outposts too. It's 'lose', not 'loose'. I'm talking about gameplay mechanics here, not relative cost to the player. WoW noobs cry just as much over getting killed as Eve players do when they get killed. They're just a softer, weaker group of people. Dare I say it, more 'sensitive'. That isn't the point. The point here is how the end-game PVE plays out and about how the PVE/PVP interaction in WoW is superior to that of Eve. Which is upsetting. You're wrong about "endgame PvE" in WoW. Even on PvP servers, the PvE endgame is nearly devoid of PvP action, unless you actually go seek it out. PvE endgame is raiding, which takes place in instances where enemy players simply can't get to you. The only thing they can do is camp the instance entrances and hope you can kill people before they actually get to the instance portal. This is a minor inconvenience to the PvE folks, at the very worst. Missioning in high-sec in EvE is more dangerous than endgame WoW PvE on PvP servers, AND you stand to lose a lot more in EvE high-sec missioning as well. In short: fail.
Lily Sarman	Posted - 2008.09.05 23:50:00 - [143] Played WoW for several years and after reading the initial page thought I'd clear some stuff up... PvE Realms You can go anywhere without running the risk of being killed by another player unless you actually go into one of their capital cities. You have the option to become PvP flagged but this isn't usually recommended since it just gives the enemy the first strike. To unflag yourself you can either return to your factions territory and wait 5 minutes or die and wait 5 minutes. PvP Realms You are safe only when in your factions territory. As soon as you enter contested or enemy territory you become PvP flaggerd and are vulnerable to attack. You can only get rid of this by staying out of a contested or enemy area for 5 minutes. The lowdown for PvP Basically if you don't mind being killed and corpsecamped (They sit on your body waiting for you come run back as a ghost and res just so they can kill you again) endlessely then roll on a PvP server. PvP servers are fun because like Eve problems are solved through fighting BUT in WoW there are no real consequences to dying apart from a bruised ego. In some ways I find it a little tiring that I can't just get rid of some idiot by kiling him and have to resort to corpse camping until they get the point and move somewhere else. If someone blows up your ship in Eve then you've lost an investment of time and money forever that is only marginally made up for through insurence. Sure they could come back in another ship but thats probably unlikely unless they have something they can kill you with in which case good for them. Eve gives much more definite consequences in PvP than WoW can ever do. The lowdown for PvE I'm more of a WoW PvE'er myself and again you have it a lot easier in WoW than in Eve. In Eve if you mess up and die then you've lost your mission ship which can cost a fortune. In WoW if you die then at worst you'll pay a few gold at 70 to get your gear repaired and carry on. Raiding is mostly about dying until you get it right and making sure you have good enough gear for the content. In conclusion In the end there is no way that WoW is somehow less forgiving or harsher than Eve. Its basically an easy game which rewards time invested into it. Recent changes have made it possible for completely clueless players to get full epic gear and unleash their stupidity on competent players in Heroic instances (normal instances made harder)and raids with little or no consequences. Given I've just read that story about the dude in the raven taken down by a hawk its good to see that Eve still punishes the inexperienced for trying to run before they can walk.
Eskalin Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.06 00:07:00 - [144] come to delve we have a delightful systems of providing you with access to high level bloodraider missions and npc's. live in beautiful pr-, just one jump from that delightful dining destination NOL. there are multiple npc stations for your mission needs as well as your shopping pleasure, don't forget to pick up something Swedish for the wife, and her clones... delve eve's #1 tourist destination If babies weren't to be eaten they wouldn't be hibachi sized


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