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[Proposal] let Jump Freighters Jump back to high sec

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Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 07:40:00 - [1] Proposal: let Jump Freighters Jump back to high sec from low sec. Why does one have to risk a 4 billion isk ship that is not capable of fitting a tank? Offcourse you can drag all your corp mates to the high sec border system for some defense so you can jump back to high sec using tha t gate. I think JF's should be able to jump back to high sec using a JF cyno similar to the covert ops cyno gen. Or use the same one but then being able to create a cyno in high sec. There are game mechanics and restrictions, i know. but still, isnt this not something that could be taken into consideration?
Mr Laden	Posted - 2008.09.23 07:58:00 - [2] /signed
white kight SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs Coalition of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:10:00 - [3] agreed this needs to be done Originally by: CCP Navigator Thread Locked. Please note that the General Discussion area is not.... Oh who am I kidding - Continue
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:34:00 - [4] I'd like this too. Black Hand.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:41:00 - [5] Of course, this would be very handy to have. But we have to consider if this isn't going to make it overpowered. Are you guys open to the thought of there being a considerable cost involved in this, maybe even a standing requirement on behalf of the corporation/pilot?
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:43:00 - [6] Originally by: LaVista Vista Of course, this would be very handy to have. But we have to consider if this isn't going to make it overpowered. Are you guys open to the thought of there being a considerable cost involved in this, maybe even a standing requirement on behalf of the corporation/pilot? that last part would be out of the question. You should just be able to open the cyno for the JF. No messing with standing requirements on behalf of corp/pilots. OUT of the question.
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:50:00 - [7] If you can't anchor a POS in high-sec without standings, then WHY should the empires even dare letting you open any kind of cyno in their areas of space? What about f there was a jumping delay? You would be stuck for x minutes(Decreased with skills) before you arrive in high-sec, in which people can attack you and disrupt the jump process? It should not be a risk-free thing to do.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:55:00 - [8] Originally by: LaVista Vista If you can't anchor a POS in high-sec without standings, then WHY should the empires even dare letting you open any kind of cyno in their areas of space? What about f there was a jumping delay? You would be stuck for x minutes(Decreased with skills) before you arrive in high-sec, in which people can attack you and disrupt the jump process? It should not be a risk-free thing to do. also NO mate. If a ship has NO slots to fit something of a tank then you should just be able to jump without; -standing requirements -jumping delay. If you do want something of that, then give jump freighters a 1/1/1 slot layout!
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.09.23 08:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Evanga also NO mate. If a ship has NO slots to fit something of a tank then you should just be able to jump without; -standing requirements -jumping delay. If you do want something of that, then give jump freighters a 1/1/1 slot layout! But you are assuming now that a JF is not supposed to be having any kind of backup whenever it's jumping around. That isn't right, is it? I mean, it would benefit me hugely if I could just jump right into high-sec. But I doubt CCP agrees that it would be nice, from a risk vs. reward point of view. There has to be some kind of compromise if this is to happen. There's also a reason that a JF can use gates.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:06:00 - [10] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Evanga also NO mate. If a ship has NO slots to fit something of a tank then you should just be able to jump without; -standing requirements -jumping delay. If you do want something of that, then give jump freighters a 1/1/1 slot layout! But you are assuming now that a JF is not supposed to be having any kind of backup whenever it's jumping around. That isn't right, is it? I mean, it would benefit me hugely if I could just jump right into high-sec. But I doubt CCP agrees that it would be nice, from a risk vs. reward point of view. There has to be some kind of compromise if this is to happen. There's also a reason that a JF can use gates. I still say that in the low sec system where it will jump from to high sec will be mostly a system where your corp mates are based. So a pos or hq over there, this makes it allready a different situation. In case of some other low/null sec system where you dont have a POS or HQ you should bring corpmates to defend your JF as well, so it can safely jump to high sec. you are assuming CCP will decline this proposal without a hassle, i mean; we havent even heard an answer of CCP what they think of it. But i agree with you there should be something of a compromise. Otherwise i propose this: A pilot should jump in an instant to a high sec cyno..BUT: 1. The Jump from low to high sec demands more fuel to make it happen. 2. A Jump freighter should not be able to make a jump to high sec from out of null sec. Only 0.1 - 0.4 sec. systems. Something like this?

LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:12:00 - [11] Originally by: Evanga Otherwise i propose this: A pilot should jump in an instant to a high sec cyno..BUT: 1. The Jump from low to high sec demands more fuel to make it happen. 2. A Jump freighter should not be able to make a jump to high sec from out of null sec. Only 0.1 - 0.4 sec. systems. Something like this? We are getting much closer indeed. How about a consumption of empire charters as well, just like it takes to run a POS in high-sec? That means there's a slightly higher barrier to entry in high-sec but it's less time consuming in the end.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:17:00 - [12] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Evanga Otherwise i propose this: A pilot should jump in an instant to a high sec cyno..BUT: 1. The Jump from low to high sec demands more fuel to make it happen. 2. A Jump freighter should not be able to make a jump to high sec from out of null sec. Only 0.1 - 0.4 sec. systems. Something like this? We are getting much closer indeed. How about a consumption of empire charters as well, just like it takes to run a POS in high-sec? That means there's a slightly higher barrier to entry in high-sec but it's less time consuming in the end. That would be agreed upon; -a JF is allready a ship that requires to have some ISK in your wallet, by that i mean isotopes and creating cyno's etc.. -Using empire charters WITH liquid ozone to create a cyno in high sec would be a good combo. Also something good for the mission runners to buy the charters from the LP store If you agree to this we might have a great understanding mate
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:45:00 - [13] Big no on this. This would allow JFs to move about high sec using cynos. This would make EVE a terribly small place as goods can move freely between regions in an instant. 0.0 space is very spread out, that is why jump drives are needed, most of high sec is packed into a small area (at least ly wise). If you fly a JF correctly, I don't see how you can possibly die. Jump to low sec -> dock/POS up then warp to high sec gate. In high sec -> scout gate then jump through and cyno away. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
LaVista Vista	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Evanga That would be agreed upon; -a JF is allready a ship that requires to have some ISK in your wallet, by that i mean isotopes and creating cyno's etc.. -Using empire charters WITH liquid ozone to create a cyno in high sec would be a good combo. Also something good for the mission runners to buy the charters from the LP store If you agree to this we might have a great understanding mate I agree.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:49:00 - [15] Originally by: Vaal Erit Big no on this. This would allow JFs to move about high sec using cynos. This would make EVE a terribly small place as goods can move freely between regions in an instant. 0.0 space is very spread out, that is why jump drives are needed, most of high sec is packed into a small area (at least ly wise). If you fly a JF correctly, I don't see how you can possibly die. Jump to low sec -> dock/POS up then warp to high sec gate. In high sec -> scout gate then jump through and cyno away. As i read this you dont know you can jump from out of high sec to low sec. CCP could build in a restriction of not being able to jump from high sec to high sec. MY point is to be able to jump from low into high sec. Nothing more. Period.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:51:00 - [16] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Evanga That would be agreed upon; -a JF is allready a ship that requires to have some ISK in your wallet, by that i mean isotopes and creating cyno's etc.. -Using empire charters WITH liquid ozone to create a cyno in high sec would be a good combo. Also something good for the mission runners to buy the charters from the LP store If you agree to this we might have a great understanding mate I agree. Great
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Evanga As i read this you dont know you can jump from out of high sec to low sec. CCP could build in a restriction of not being able to jump from high sec to high sec. MY point is to be able to jump from low into high sec. Nothing more. Period. And you dont know that under your idea you can jump from high sec -> low sec -> high sec which would be fairly similar to high sec-> high sec without too much trouble (one more hop) JFs are meant for low-sec and 0.0 sec transporting. They are not meant to do any sort of moving in high sec space. Transport ships are MEANT to be slow, making an instantaneous huge cargo space ship in high sec space would be very broken. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:57:00 - [18] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Evanga That would be agreed upon; -a JF is allready a ship that requires to have some ISK in your wallet, by that i mean isotopes and creating cyno's etc.. -Using empire charters WITH liquid ozone to create a cyno in high sec would be a good combo. Also something good for the mission runners to buy the charters from the LP store If you agree to this we might have a great understanding mate btw, so this will be brought to the attention in the next meeting? I agree.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 09:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: Evanga As i read this you dont know you can jump from out of high sec to low sec. CCP could build in a restriction of not being able to jump from high sec to high sec. MY point is to be able to jump from low into high sec. Nothing more. Period. And you dont know that under your idea you can jump from high sec -> low sec -> high sec which would be fairly similar to high sec-> high sec without too much trouble (one more hop) JFs are meant for low-sec and 0.0 sec transporting. They are not meant to do any sort of moving in high sec space. Transport ships are MEANT to be slow, making an instantaneous huge cargo space ship in high sec space would be very broken. OK you got a point on putting restrictions of high-low-high jumps. For example; the high sec system after the low system should be the same as the first high sec system you left from. AND im pretty sure i didnt mention i was or was not happy with the current speed of freighters/jump freighters.
ArmyOfMe Pernicious Creed Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.09.23 11:33:00 - [20] A very BIG NO. why in the world should a jump freighter be perfectly safe just cause it cost a lot of isk and cant fit a tank. If those two things are such a big problem for ppl then the simple option for you is to not fly it. Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything

Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 11:43:00 - [21] Originally by: ArmyOfMe A very BIG NO. why in the world should a jump freighter be perfectly safe just cause it cost a lot of isk and cant fit a tank. If those two things are such a big problem for ppl then the simple option for you is to not fly it. Why not. Its the whole idea of creating an entire new concept within eve.. I think that if such a ship is meant for low/null sec and is not able to fit a tank it should be compensated/balanced.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.23 11:51:00 - [22] Originally by: Evanga Originally by: ArmyOfMe A very BIG NO. why in the world should a jump freighter be perfectly safe just cause it cost a lot of isk and cant fit a tank. If those two things are such a big problem for ppl then the simple option for you is to not fly it. Why not. Its the whole idea of creating an entire new concept within eve.. I think that if such a ship is meant for low/null sec and is not able to fit a tank it should be compensated/balanced. The issue is that you're asking for the elimination of the single biggest risk in flying a jump freighter. All ships should have a counter. I mean if my Viator had +infinite WCS instead of +1, it's be great for me - I could fly it pretty much invulnerably anywhere. Fantastic. Also insanely overpowered. And that can only more 3750m^3 at once - your jump freighter can already cyno from POS to POS in virtually perfect safety, carrying a vastly larger cargo. It's as if you're asking for battleships to be as agile as frigates: Great for battleships, leaves no niche for frigates. Can you provide any justification for your request for a very significant buff for your ship class other than that you'd really like it?
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 11:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Malcanis The issue is that you're asking for the elimination of the single biggest risk in flying a jump freighter. All ships should have a counter. I mean if my Viator had +infinite WCS instead of +1, it's be great for me - I could fly it pretty much invulnerably anywhere. Fantastic. Also insanely overpowered. And that can only more 3750m^3 at once - your jump freighter can already cyno from POS to POS in virtually perfect safety, carrying a vastly larger cargo. It's as if you're asking for battleships to be as agile as frigates: Great for battleships, leaves no niche for frigates. Can you provide any justification for your request for a very significant buff for your ship class other than that you'd really like it? Its like flying an unfitted bs into a lvl 4 mission. Pointless. JF's/freighters are also point of subject in high sec with gankers. You should see when im flying my JF from jita the constant locking and cargo scanning :P, 10 torp ravens and its gone. Why not give a ship with no slots a little adventage?
ArmyOfMe Pernicious Creed Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Evanga Its like flying an unfitted bs into a lvl 4 mission. Pointless. Why not give a ship with no slots a little adventage? they already have an advantage, they can jump to cynos if its as pointless as you say, why use it? why do ppl even bother flying such a ship? you have yet to come up with a single valid point for your idea, the only thing you have made clear is that you want a ship that can never be killed Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:21:00 - [25] Originally by: ArmyOfMe they already have an advantage, they can jump to cynos if its as pointless as you say, why use it? why do ppl even bother flying such a ship? you have yet to come up with a single valid point for your idea, the only thing you have made clear is that you want a ship that can never be killed Why did CCP even brought this ship in the game? Please answer this one
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Evanga Why not give a ship with no slots a little advantage? You're doing this wrong. You're supposed to be giving reasons why this change would benefit Eve, not asking us to come up with reasons why that shouldn't happen. And let's face it, this is an utterly pathetic carebear idea, violating current mechanics and removing the minimal risk involved in flying a JF. It would be to the detriment of Eve and it's really little more than "wah wah make my life easier". You'll be asking for a lowslot to fit a DC next.
Saraah Leeown	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:29:00 - [27] Hey why not quadruple their hit points and give them rig slots as well This is a ridiculous idea I'm sorry, and you should be ashamed for even mentioning it. Lets face it, all you're saying here is that you don't want to risk you ship because it "costs so much" and you're just scared of losing it stupidly. This thread is now about Evanga growing a pair, or going to play Hello Kitty online (that's the standard insult for people who want their hands held around here isn't it?)
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: Evanga Why not give a ship with no slots a little advantage? You're doing this wrong. You're supposed to be giving reasons why this change would benefit Eve, not asking us to come up with reasons why that shouldn't happen. And let's face it, this is an utterly pathetic carebear idea, violating current mechanics and removing the minimal risk involved in flying a JF. It would be to the detriment of Eve and it's really little more than "wah wah make my life easier". You'll be asking for a lowslot to fit a DC next. You are on the wrong track here, all im asking is to give the chance for JF pilots to cyno right back to high sec under certain conditions. OR to give this ship some sort of a tank. SO either cyno to high sec OR to give this ship a slot layout of -/1/1 or -/-/1. This is not a question to make my life easier, just an idea what would CCP think about it and to take something similar into consideration. So quit the yabbering of "this is an utterly pathetic carebear idea" .. go back to your anti-nano nerf thread.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Saraah Leeown Hey why not quadruple their hit points and give them rig slots as well This is a ridiculous idea I'm sorry, and you should be ashamed for even mentioning it. Lets face it, all you're saying here is that you don't want to risk you ship because it "costs so much" and you're just scared of losing it stupidly. This thread is now about Evanga growing a pair, or going to play Hello Kitty online (that's the standard insult for people who want their hands held around here isn't it?)
DiaBlo UK Killer Koalas	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:36:00 - [30] with the nature of these ships being mainly to get things in and out of 0.0 a certain level of risk should be associated with it. Being able to jump from highsec and back to high sec removes too much of the risk. If you can afford a 4bil ship, and have enough people to control some 0.0 space then you should be able to secure a low sec system long enough to dock or jump(through a gate) your JF out. Originally by: CCP Navigator Pretty sure someone is selling tinfoil hats. You should buy one

Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:40:00 - [31] Edited by: Gypsio III on 23/09/2008 12:42:08 The OP makes no sense anyway. The current risk is minimal - you don't need to secure the system or gate at all. Just cyno in next to a station, then warp to the gate at zero and jump. If you're not paying attention, then you might drop out of warp in the gate and bump away, than get tackled before you can jump or warp - but in that case you deserve everything you get. I think the OP really wants to jump between highsec systems, thereby utterly removing any risk associated with suicide-ganking (not that there is much with the new mechanics) and wardecs (likewise with NPC corps). Quote: You are on the wrong track here, all im asking is to give the chance for JF pilots to cyno right back to high sec under certain conditions. OR to give this ship some sort of a tank. SO either cyno to high sec OR to give this ship a slot layout of -/1/1 or -/-/1. Mind you, if this really isn't anything to do with just making the OP's life easier and safer with no drawbacks, then I'm sure he'd still support his current proposal if it was accompanied by a 90% cut in the JF's cargohold.
Evanga	Posted - 2008.09.23 12:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 23/09/2008 12:42:08 The OP makes no sense anyway. The current risk is minimal - you don't need to secure the system or gate at all. Just cyno in next to a station, then warp to the gate at zero and jump. If you're not paying attention, then you might drop out of warp in the gate and bump away, than get tackled before you can jump or warp - but in that case you deserve everything you get. I think the OP really wants to jump between highsec systems, thereby utterly removing any risk associated with suicide-ganking (not that there is much with the new mechanics) and wardecs (likewise with NPC corps). Quote: You are on the wrong track here, all im asking is to give the chance for JF pilots to cyno right back to high sec under certain conditions. OR to give this ship some sort of a tank. SO either cyno to high sec OR to give this ship a slot layout of -/1/1 or -/-/1. Mind you, if this really isn't anything to do with just making the OP's life easier and safer with no drawbacks, then I'm sure he'd still support his current proposal if it was accompanied by a 90% cut in the JF's cargohold. You also could have just give a comment how YOU should fly that ship back to high sec instead of giving these retarted comments. Nevermind this topic please, for it could have been locked after the last comment of the CSM.....so please do lock it.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.23 15:27:00 - [33] The OP might have a carebear wish but its interesting to see where its going. Cynoing into high-sec is prohibited because of having caps in high-sec isn't allowed by the main factions. (And you don't want to have moms camping high-sec gates either, although having them CONCORDENNED would be funneh.) Freighters and Jump Freighters can happily dwell in high-sec. Besides they don't require the capital ships skill so even though they are capital ship size they aren't real capital ships. And they are not offensive because of lack of slots. If you have a JF cynoing into low-sec or 0.0 it still is risky because they might get ganked, bumped etc. So when a JF wants to travel back it still have to cyno to a low-sec system 1 jump from high-sec and run a 2nd chance of getting ganked. Still its impossible to light cynos in high-sec because of the capital ships. You then should either need a special cyno generator (Civilian?) or a POS module version that only allows JF. The module doesn't have any disadvantages. The POS module version requires a (deccable) corp with standing. Besides setting up a POS just for jumping requires some logistical planning. You even could have a mini profession by setting up JF cyno POSses. Then my mind wanders off and starts wondering about JF cyno bridges all over high-sec but that would be just plain wrong since it would allow entities to move large quantities of supplies to move through empire very fast. So high-sec to high-sec cynoing is baaaad. Yet it still seems to be overpowered but who knows when everyone owns a JF the whining for this possibility makes CCP give in to these people and give them the option to cyno back to high-sec.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.23 20:20:00 - [34] OP is closely akin to "i want my ship to be able to safely move, even if i am solo"...sorry, but this is a resounding **ing NO...stop with this "MY SHIP ISNT SAFE" shit _____________________ Originally by:** Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.23 20:26:00 - [35] Not supported unless I can jump my dread into highsec. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.23 23:11:00 - [36] I have a jump freighter, and I don't want this. I have +9 Caldari standing too, so I'd still get to use it under "compromise" being floated here too, and I still don't want it. Logistics shouldn't be risk free, and freighter logistics shouldn't be a solo activity. You should need an escort, and you should run a considerable risk if you don't have one. One of the reasons that we have the state of affairs in 0.0 that we do today, with cap fleets in the hundreds and unplayable blob warfare is because logistics are too quick and easy and too invulnerable to attack. If you can't afford to risk a 4b isk ship, don't use one, or at least don't try to use one solo. It's the same for flying any ship in the game. The price tag on these ought to be a clue that they aren't meant to be used, and risked, by individuals. This is an MMO, folks, not a single player game. One of the things that ruins MMOs as they age is constant demands that things be made easier to do solo that get listened to by the publisher. Not Supported
W3370Pi4	Posted - 2008.09.23 23:12:00 - [37]
Carniflex StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.09.24 09:55:00 - [38] Would be nice to be able to jump them into hisec. Just make the generator burn goooood handful of starbase charters also and make sure only ships that can already use stargates (JF and black ops) can use that cyno.
zzbooks	Posted - 2008.09.24 10:01:00 - [39] I think there should be a new pos module to create JF cynoes. The user thus has to maintain a hi-sec POS. The module should have a 5 day onlineing time so the POS has to be semi-permanent, and attackable. The module should use a lot of powergrid/cpu.
Gotrek65 Brimstone Order R-I-P	Posted - 2008.09.24 11:25:00 - [40] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Evanga Otherwise i propose this: A pilot should jump in an instant to a high sec cyno..BUT: 1. The Jump from low to high sec demands more fuel to make it happen. 2. A Jump freighter should not be able to make a jump to high sec from out of null sec. Only 0.1 - 0.4 sec. systems. Something like this? We are getting much closer indeed. How about a consumption of empire charters as well, just like it takes to run a POS in high-sec? That means there's a slightly higher barrier to entry in high-sec but it's less time consuming in the end. ding ding we have a winner, I like that answer, supported with love =D

Khanid MMVIII	Posted - 2008.09.24 11:31:00 - [41] Originally by: zzbooks I think there should be a new pos module to create JF cynoes. The user thus has to maintain a hi-sec POS. The module should have a 5 day onlineing time so the POS has to be semi-permanent, and attackable. The module should use a lot of powergrid/cpu. and combine this POS cyno module which uses starbase charters, ozone and we might have a winner :D
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:36:00 - [42] maybe if the cyno could only be launched while inside of POS shields... Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.24 19:18:00 - [43] Oh oh even better! lets just be able to jump station to station in my JF without ever undocking! just like jump clones! -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.09.24 21:45:00 - [44] Wow, thats hideously overpowered. When is it at any risk then? _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
ArmyOfMe Pernicious Creed Vendetta Alliance.	Posted - 2008.09.24 23:32:00 - [45] make it so that the cyno can only be put up at gates and the pilot has to be in a player corp(and no, not possible to change corps each time there is a war dec) and ill might agree with this, if not then still a big ass nooo Originally by: deadmaus Because by the time we had calmed Plague down after he heard BoB were back in the vicinity it was too late to do anything
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.25 04:43:00 - [46] Wait, you mean being able to instantly teleport huge amounts of goods from across the EVE universe incurs some risk? It's fine. Freighters, esp. jump freighters, aren't really meant to be solomobiles. Yes, you need your corp's help and no, that's not a bad thing. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Blind Molechild	Posted - 2008.09.25 08:26:00 - [47] carebear whine thread. there is hardly any risk in jumping a jf around. you can have cyno up at pos or right next to station to dock, what's the problem?
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:06:00 - [48] Originally by: Blind Molechild .. what's the problem? There isn't any problem. Like many people said current mechanics aren't seriously borked. But there is a chance of improvement and even create a new profession for it. Besides there isn't any real reason for factions not allowing to cyno in non offensive commercial ships into their territories. 'Oh CCP, give us our daily pew pew' argument is a bit shortsighted here. Its not like you will be able to catch these suckers on regular basis. They hug POS or stations and have more than enough HP to crawl back to their safe place.
Evanga Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:36:00 - [49] Great answer Fuze!
Blind Molechild	Posted - 2008.09.26 11:52:00 - [50] the op wants to cyno into high sec because he wants to move his stuff with zero risk, and maybe do high sec to high sec jumps, basically insta-trading. so let me rephrase my post from before, it's an isk-farmer / carebear whinethread.

Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.26 12:02:00 - [51] Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 26/09/2008 12:03:45 Absolutely not. Terrible idea. Flying a JF is aready pretty risk free as it is if you know what you're doing... if you don't then people will be there to equalise the gap between isk and IQ. It will also shrink the universe even further, make logistics easier. Who needs their own manufacturing capability in 0.0 if you can jump from your HQ to Jita and back again in 20 minutes (easily doable with a cyno chain)? You need some protection for your multi billion isk ship+cargo? Get out of your hugbox and get your corpmates to secure the jump in point. Edit, how do I make thumbs up/down? Calm Your Passion
Evanga Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:07:00 - [52] Originally by: Blind Molechild the op wants to cyno into high sec because he wants to move his stuff with zero risk, and maybe do high sec to high sec jumps, basically insta-trading. so let me rephrase my post from before, it's an isk-farmer / carebear whinethread. learn to f**king read. I never mentionned i want to be able to jump from high sec to high sec system..jeez...
Blind Molechild	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:26:00 - [53] Originally by: Evanga Edited by: Evanga on 23/09/2008 07:49:29 Proposal: let Jump Freighters Jump back to high sec from low sec. blabla if you never proposed that, then this makes absolutly no sense.
Evanga Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:32:00 - [54] Originally by: Blind Molechild Originally by: Evanga Edited by: Evanga on 23/09/2008 07:49:29 Proposal: let Jump Freighters Jump back to high sec from low sec. blabla if you never proposed that, then this makes absolutly no sense. Proposal: let Jump Freighters Jump back to high sec from low sec. Low to high, NOT high to high. I proposed this with a reason, an idea. I never mentionned i want to jump my gear from high to high. Allready mentionned there should restrictions on that part....if you are so anti-this idea, you have made your point. Go whine in another thread.
Blind Molechild	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:41:00 - [55] so you can pop a high sec cyno for your jf to jump to, then what if your jf is in high, it can't jump out? hmmmm.............still stupid and 999% ultra-carebareish feed me, feed me, i'm a hungry troll
Evanga Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Blind Molechild so you can pop a high sec cyno for your jf to jump to, then what if your jf is in high, it can't jump out? hmmmm.............still stupid and 999% ultra-carebareish feed me, feed me, i'm a hungry troll Exactly. -Cyno to low sec, allready possible. -Cyno back to high, then use normal stargates to move your JF around. -Or cyno back to low.. ....throws in another beer.
Efdi The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.26 17:04:00 - [57] I don't see how reducing the already preposterously low window of danger for JFs could possibly be considered a good idea. _______________________________ Yes, I am an alt. No, I can't post with my main; he's forum banned. Yes, I will be happy to smack you with my main when I'm unbanned.
Mr Laden	Posted - 2008.09.29 14:41:00 - [58] good point, thumbs up
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.29 15:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Efdi I don't see how reducing the already preposterously low window of danger for JFs could possibly be considered a good idea. So you'd like to see that JF jumping out of high-sec wouldn't be possible? At least it would be more consistent that way. You can jump in/out to/from high-sec or you can't. Makes more sense than this strange compromise. Also when there were high-sec POS you could jump to you'd open a can of worms when people want to jump from high-sec to high-sec. Now that would be funny.
Shinma Apollo The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.09.30 01:10:00 - [60] Edited by: Shinma Apollo on 30/09/2008 01:10:08 I'd support this on one of the following two conditions: A) Doing so risks being caught in the cyno jammer's disruption, giving you an exceptionally risky (~85%) chance of your ship and cargo being destroyed on landing. B) The faction you jump to responds to your aggression and targets the jump freighter and cyno ship. Maybe even retaliates and invades your little section of 0.0.

Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.09.30 02:21:00 - [61] I can't see how letting jump freighter completely bypass the choke points that every other ship in the game must travel through in order to move between low and high sec is a good thing. Frankly, it doesn't appear to me as though a jump freighter needs to risk much as it is (if necessary, cyno to a friendly POS, then warp to the gate and inst-jump). It also eliminates war declarations as a mechanic to stop hostile logistics, since jump freighters would be able to bypass any empire blockade. /not supported -- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.30 03:19:00 - [62] NO --
Another Forum'Alt	Posted - 2008.09.30 12:26:00 - [63]
Jason Edwards	Posted - 2008.09.30 19:26:00 - [64] Edited by: Jason Edwards on 30/09/2008 19:26:36 This is so necessary. Even if they make the cyno-jumpfreighter system a sort of high sec pos module. Using very similar system as the covert cyno stuff. You just make the jumpfreighter system work this way. Which honestly is good because once you add the jump fuel costs, the pos fuel, etc etc. The corp standing idea is all setup to make sense with the storyline rp stuff. It's not overpowered because these systems will cost so much fuel costs... excessive addition trading costs will make your profit margins hurt compared to what your competitors who arent jumpdriving around. So really... nothing changes except it gives an advantage to the jump freighters which are respectable. ------------------------ "There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.30 21:34:00 - [65] Originally by: Jason Edwards Edited by: Jason Edwards on 30/09/2008 19:26:36 This is so necessary. Even if they make the cyno-jumpfreighter system a sort of high sec pos module. Using very similar system as the covert cyno stuff. You just make the jumpfreighter system work this way. Which honestly is good because once you add the jump fuel costs, the pos fuel, etc etc. The corp standing idea is all setup to make sense with the storyline rp stuff. It's not overpowered because these systems will cost so much fuel costs... excessive addition trading costs will make your profit margins hurt compared to what your competitors who arent jumpdriving around. So really... nothing changes except it gives an advantage to the jump freighters which are respectable. Ummm being a jump freighter they already have an advantage of well being able to jump! before they had to fly everywhere taking forever to do so, unless you did things right and had some corpies with you to web the freighter on gates. Jump fighters already don't have much risk as they can jump to a lowsec system next to highsec warp to gate and bam there in highsec. I have been on a couple jump freighter kills and the only reason we were able ot catch them was because they did stupid stuff like cyno on a planet or there cyno buddy put them to close to the station and bounced them off dock range. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.01 00:50:00 - [66] Originally by: DEATHsyphon Ummm being a jump freighter they already have an advantage of well being able to jump! before they had to fly everywhere taking forever to do so, unless you did things right and had some corpies with you to web the freighter on gates. Jump fighters already don't have much risk as they can jump to a lowsec system next to highsec warp to gate and bam there in highsec. If you look past the (rather selfish) 'I don't like it when I can't pew pew JF in lowsec anymore' and ask the question: 'Why can they jump out of highsec but can't jump in?' That's like taking the train and having to use the bus on your way back. I wouldn't mind if JF could only jump in lowsec to lowsec or 0.0. Jumping into low-sec and then cyno out is even lower risk then jumping next to high-sec and then jump through. That's no biggie to me really. If you can't light the cyno in highsec you shouldn't be able to jump out of it as well. There is a reason you can't light cynos in high-sec. To avoid caps jumping in and pwning CONCORD. But the only thing you can do with a JF is bumping another ship and that's it. Remember the Erebus that was stolen by the Serpentis? It was stolen in high-sec so this means factions are allowed to have supercaps in high-sec. It also implies that its technically possible to jump caps and supercaps to high-sec. So why would a Faction not allow JF to jump back into highsec? Because you like to shoot them? (I do to btw)
Irongut M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.10.01 02:38:00 - [67] No. Jump Freighters already make 0.0 logistics far too easy. I remember having to escort freighter convoys from 0.0 to empire on a weekly basis. Now all that work is done by a couple of cyno alts and Jump Freighters which makes it practically impossible to cut off an enemy's supply lines. -- The future is Black. Brace for Impact!
Kaiden Exeider Gallente Astrowork Systems	Posted - 2008.10.07 17:00:00 - [68] I have proposed this idea in my "Commercial" Jumpdrives and Cynos idea you should check it out -Kaiden Kaiden Exeider - CSM Candidate
Kaiden Exeider Gallente Astrowork Systems	Posted - 2008.10.07 17:03:00 - [69] Edited by: Kaiden Exeider on 07/10/2008 17:03:49 Kaiden Exeider - CSM Candidate
Mara Devortex	Posted - 2008.10.07 17:32:00 - [70]

Carl Marcus Galactic Waste Management	Posted - 2008.10.07 17:34:00 - [71]
xiao chin	Posted - 2008.10.07 17:35:00 - [72]
Blastil	Posted - 2008.10.08 21:50:00 - [73] Risk/Reward. JF offer MASSIVE REWARD over industrials, which carry less, but are infinitely more risky. If you let them cyno into High Sec, then its going to be almost entirely RISKLESS. Just deal with the fact that your uber hauling ship isn't ultimate, and untouchable, and give us lowsec pirates something to shoot at. maybe you should make some friends to defend it, and plan ops around it instead of making it the kind of thing you can do at any time, because your on with all your cyno alts.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.09 01:19:00 - [74] Originally by: fuze If you look past the (rather selfish) 'I don't like it when I can't pew pew JF in lowsec anymore' and ask the question: 'Why can they jump out of highsec but can't jump in?' That's like taking the train and having to use the bus on your way back. [...] There is a reason you can't light cynos in high-sec. To avoid caps jumping in and pwning CONCORD. From a mechanics standpoint, even if it was reasonable to allow Jump Freighters to jump into high sec, the implementation would be problematic. As fuze indirectly pointed out, the main reason Jump Freighters are unable to do so is that cyno fields themselves are banned in high sec (not JF's which can enter, but only via gates). Basically, high-sec has cyno-jammers in every system. From a flavor-text standpoint, it makes a lot more sense for the empires to simply cyno-jam every system to prevent foreign capitals to jump in than to find a way to prevent only capital ships from jumping to a cyno field in their space. As an aside, the events leading up to FW show that it is possible to bypass the empire cyno-jammers, but that technology is not available to pod-pilots. -- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.09 04:34:00 - [75] Tired of the Russian's popping you at your favorite low-sec cyno point eh. Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Liranan M'8'S Frontal Impact	Posted - 2008.10.09 13:52:00 - [76] I can't believe I just read the entire thread and the only good point made in this failure of a thread was by Treelox "NO". You should NEVER fly anything you can't afford to lose, whether it be a shuttle or a Titan, I care not. Failthread fails. Farjung is my God
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.10.09 16:33:00 - [77] Why not. Undock - Warp to zero on gate - Jump = NO RISK Undock-- Cyno into highsec = NO RISK Its not making one jot of difference in the risk to the pilot but will save a lot of tedious jumping/aping through high sec. SKUNK
Furb Killer Gallente Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.10.09 20:51:00 - [78] Skunk is correct on that risk now is allready very low. However since we are apparently removing boring stuff, why not also give normal freighters ability to jump between high sec systems, otherwise it is boring. And how about you just start a lvl 4 mission and you get 20M isk without the need to do anything.
Col Callahan Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.10 07:08:00 - [79] Signed/
Katarina Arisdeed Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:28:00 - [80] Sorry to say but this gets a big NO in my book, When you fly the big pretty shiny ships you take the big risks, I fly a carrier and fly it under the presumtion that there is a good chance I might loose it every time I undock it or move it from the pos shileds, just because I have a tank and fighters doesnt make me any less vulnerable to a small gang then a freighter, all it takes it a tackler to hold me down and someone to neut my capactior and I'm as good as gone, so sorry not high sec jump ins for jump freighters, you have to hare the risk like the rest of us

Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:44:00 - [81] I could not disagree with this proposal more strongly. It's not supposed to be easy. There's supposed to be risk. People who want to play a game on god mode never cease to amaze me.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:11:00 - [82] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON I could not disagree with this proposal more strongly. It's not supposed to be easy. There's supposed to be risk. People who want to play a game on god mode never cease to amaze me. Your argument is moot when you want to introduce pirate faction towers which are unprobable.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:13:00 - [83] Originally by: fuze Your argument is moot when you want to introduce pirate faction towers which are unprobable. Pirate towers with inherent risk built into them. To be used in 0.0 where there is no artificial safety net. There's also within the idea the concept of periods of probablility. Your argument is moot when you compare apples to oranges.
Orb Lati Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.10 21:11:00 - [84] I would support this if empires then treated all cynos in their hi-sec space as an illegal act and concord came along and killed any ship generating a cyno and the ship jumping to it. 100% risk for 100% safety seems fair to me "We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible"
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.11 13:26:00 - [85] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Pirate towers with inherent risk built into them. To be used in 0.0 where there is no artificial safety net. When JF can jump to high-sec they become invulnerable? Most of them get caught with their pants down undocking in 0.0 or low-sec or get AP ganked in high-sec. It's inconsistent when they can jump out high-sec but can't jump back. Besides just like pirate faction towers you can tweak this idea around in a way that you need high-standing with the high-sec faction you're jumping to and have to be in a deccable corp.
Drake Draconis Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.11 16:16:00 - [86] Originally by: fuze Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Pirate towers with inherent risk built into them. To be used in 0.0 where there is no artificial safety net. When JF can jump to high-sec they become invulnerable? Most of them get caught with their pants down undocking in 0.0 or low-sec or get AP ganked in high-sec. It's inconsistent when they can jump out high-sec but can't jump back. Besides just like pirate faction towers you can tweak this idea around in a way that you need high-standing with the high-sec faction you're jumping to and have to be in a deccable corp. Never ceases to amaze me when people take potshots and attempt to disrupt valid discussions by subtle personal attacks. Jump Freighters have a great deal of risk... if they are allowed to jump directly to high sec... the risk only gets slightly less. In reality all you'd have to do is war'dec the corp that owns the freighter and you can nail the target as it arrives without much trouble. Unless its a NPC... then you have a valid point of riskless there. Either way... all I See is 2 groups... one who want's less frustration as they are going to and fro 0.0 to high sec. And a bunch of gankers who want meatier targets. If its going to be a problem... then have a "cyno" tax for JF's crossing into Empire space.. after all.. its the only capital ship allowed to come in. (Unless I didn't count the Roqual (sp?). You could even use Charters... and make them verrrrrrry pricey... where you could avoid the fee by taking the "risk" in low-sec.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.10.11 22:27:00 - [87] Edited by: Dianeces on 11/10/2008 22:27:13 Originally by: fuze It's inconsistent when they can jump out high-sec but can't jump back. No, it isn't. You can jump to lowsec, you can jump to nullsec, but you cannot jump into highsec. It's not about where the ship originates, it's about where the cyno is. The only thing the jumpdrive cares about is there being a cyno in range, not where it (the jumpdrive) currently is.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.12 12:47:00 - [88] Originally by: Dianeces ...it's about where the cyno is. Precisely. And why can't you put up a cyno in high-sec for a non-aggressive commercial ship which promotes trade with the 0.0 and low-sec regions? If you watched the recent coronation video you could see that Amarr had plenty of caps in high-sec. (Never seen some of their capital shipyards though)
elric gallach	Posted - 2008.10.12 16:43:00 - [89] Originally by: fuze Originally by: Blind Molechild .. what's the problem? There isn't any problem. Like many people said current mechanics aren't seriously borked. But there is a chance of improvement and even create a new profession for it. Besides there isn't any real reason for factions not allowing to cyno in non offensive commercial ships into their territories. 'Oh CCP, give us our daily pew pew' argument is a bit shortsighted here. Its not like you will be able to catch these suckers on regular basis. They hug POS or stations and have more than enough HP to crawl back to their safe place. The rorqual fits that bill aswell.
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.10.12 17:03:00 - [90] Edited by: DEATHsyphon on 12/10/2008 17:02:54 Originally by: fuze Originally by: Dianeces ...it's about where the cyno is. Precisely. And why can't you put up a cyno in high-sec for a non-aggressive commercial ship which promotes trade with the 0.0 and low-sec regions? Because any activation of a non-governing faction cyno could bring in hostile cap ships as well as with a "non-aggressive commercial ship" with the factions at war any one of these so called commercial ships could be filled with explosives jumped behind enemy lines under false pretenses to ram itself into a station and blow it up. RP FTW. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!

KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:35:00 - [91] If they put npc controled cyno points in 0.5 systems only. it would allow jumps back to hi sec, but would prevent hi sec to hi sec jumps. corp standings would be taken into account of course
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:08:00 - [92] If a cyno can be fired in high-sec, there is no logic by existing game rules that any capital ship be able to lock onto the signal and jump-in. Additionally, as mentioned in previous posts, it would make EVE a small place with little meaning in market differentiation. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store \| eve-maps.com
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:17:00 - [93] Originally by: Serenity Steele If a cyno can be fired in high-sec, there is no logic by existing game rules that any capital ship be able to lock onto the signal and jump-in. Additionally, as mentioned in previous posts, it would make EVE a small place with little meaning in market differentiation. Why can black ops jump in and out. sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. Lets have consistancy at least.
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:22:00 - [94] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Why can black ops jump in and out. sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. Lets have consistancy at least. Agreed on that. Maybe the issue is because Jump Freighters are not covert-ships? Pilot A: "Hey .. I'm sure I just saw a ship the size of a small moon .. where did it go?" Pilot B: "It cloaked!" Pilot A: "Yeah right." ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store \| eve-maps.com
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:36:00 - [95] Originally by: Drake Draconis Either way... all I See is 2 groups... one who want's less frustration as they are going to and fro 0.0 to high sec. And a bunch of gankers who want meatier targets. Somewhere in the middle is "Eve Online" and the people who play it. Allowing ships to cyno into high sec is silly. Cyno into lowsec and use a gate. Just like a normal freighter. Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.14 18:39:00 - [96] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Originally by: Drake Draconis Either way... all I See is 2 groups... one who want's less frustration as they are going to and fro 0.0 to high sec. And a bunch of gankers who want meatier targets. Somewhere in the middle is "Eve Online" and the people who play it. Allowing ships to cyno into high sec is silly. Cyno into lowsec and use a gate. Just like a normal freighter. Fine with me. same for black ops then ?
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.14 19:36:00 - [97] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Somewhere in the middle is "Eve Online" and the people who play it. Allowing ships to cyno into high sec is silly. Cyno into lowsec and use a gate. Just like a normal freighter. Fine with me. same for black ops then ? Blackops serves a different purpose so I'm not sure the two should be compared, but I'm happy to see the merits discussed in a separate thread. Originally by: Iroku Mata Darius is time to STFU and make your GSM place free for someone who got the humildity to have the job you claim and failled!
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.15 15:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Allowing ships to cyno into high sec is silly. You state this as a fact but its an opinion. How about some argumentation to back up your opinion and provide some valid points into this discussion? Besides if you think black ops are different since they have a special role why not make a difference for 100% passive 4bn ships as well? They already are a different breed of ships since it doesn't require capital ships skill but are treated by the majority as a capital ship.
Martin Broadcloak	Posted - 2008.10.15 19:59:00 - [99] If you don't have the support / brains to jump into low sec and go through a gate to high sec, you probably shouldn't be flying this ship. Cynoing to high-sec takes all the risk out - its not that hard to cyno to low-sec next to high sec and use a gate and still exposes you to risk. You can cyno out of high-sec, that's good enough.
Zanpt	Posted - 2008.10.18 12:00:00 - [100] Yes, this would be a Good Thing(TM).

DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.10.18 14:39:00 - [101] You know I just realized that this thread isn't about being able to jump into to lowsec or 0.0 than back into highsec, because jumping to a lowsec system right next to highsec is basicly 0 risk. This is about lazy people wanting to jump around in highsec and completely avoiding jumping 20 jumps to take stuff to market or visa versa. They just don't want to be scanned down and ganked after people see whats in their hold.(hint Courier Contracts) -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.18 17:44:00 - [102] Originally by: DEATHsyphon You know I just realized that this thread isn't about being able to jump into to lowsec or 0.0 than back into highsec, because jumping to a lowsec system right next to highsec is basicly 0 risk. This is about lazy people wanting to jump around in highsec and completely avoiding jumping 20 jumps to take stuff to market or visa versa. They just don't want to be scanned down and ganked after people see whats in their hold.(hint Courier Contracts) Try reading before posting please. then you might have something useful to say
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.18 19:52:00 - [103] It would be idiotic to allow this. Just one more step towards complete immunity for haulers.
Avalira Caldari Tau Ceti Green Card Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.18 19:56:00 - [104] As a JF pilot myself I don't see the point in this. The only dangers in low-sec or 0.0 cynos is to the cyno alt itself. For a JF jumping to a friendly station (NPC) there is no risk. The only time a JF can be killed is the following: 1) Using gates in low-sec to reduce fuel consumption (lol yes some fools actually do it). 2) Jumping into a system with no station and getting jumped 3) Undocking and getting ejected outside docking range, then an infini-point heavy dic prevents you from jumping. 4) Being bumped out of docking range while waiting for the session timer to change after jumping into a system. All of these can be avoided by using common sense, and if you do the worst case scenario is that your 4M-isk cyno alt gets killed while your 4B isk JF docks safely. After that just undock, warp to 0 and jump into high-sec. Nothing can stop you once you are in warp to the gate... unless you CTD when clicking on the gate. The latter actually happened to me once but luckily there were no pirates... very stressful! Part of me wants to agree with the OP just so I can save my cyno alt and jump without worrying about local, checking for pirates before jumping, choosing the best station for undocking, etc, etc, etc... On the other hand using a JF is very safe. Hell I remember having to use a freighter to 0.0 and low-sec and yet I didn't complain. Just be happy we got JF from CCP and stop whining about being 100% safe. Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its been fixed. All in all its one of the more embarrassing mistakes I made, but it made game design laugh. Now lets never speak of this again.
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.10.19 16:13:00 - [105] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: DEATHsyphon You know I just realized that this thread isn't about being able to jump into to lowsec or 0.0 than back into highsec, because jumping to a lowsec system right next to highsec is basicly 0 risk. This is about lazy people wanting to jump around in highsec and completely avoiding jumping 20 jumps to take stuff to market or visa versa. They just don't want to be scanned down and ganked after people see whats in their hold.(hint Courier Contracts) Try reading before posting please. then you might have something useful to say I think you failed to see posts from me almost from page one there m8. -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
KAELA MENSHA	Posted - 2008.10.19 17:49:00 - [106] Originally by: DEATHsyphon Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: DEATHsyphon You know I just realized that this thread isn't about being able to jump into to lowsec or 0.0 than back into highsec, because jumping to a lowsec system right next to highsec is basicly 0 risk. This is about lazy people wanting to jump around in highsec and completely avoiding jumping 20 jumps to take stuff to market or visa versa. They just don't want to be scanned down and ganked after people see whats in their hold.(hint Courier Contracts) Try reading before posting please. then you might have something useful to say I think you failed to see posts from me almost from page one there m8. Originally by: Evanga As i read this you dont know you can jump from out of high sec to low sec. CCP could build in a restriction of not being able to jump from high sec to high sec. MY point is to be able to jump from low into high sec. Nothing more. Period. all that was asked for is the ability to jump from low to hi sec not hi sec to hi sec
Evanga Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:24:00 - [107] Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: DEATHsyphon Originally by: KAELA MENSHA Originally by: DEATHsyphon You know I just realized that this thread isn't about being able to jump into to lowsec or 0.0 than back into highsec, because jumping to a lowsec system right next to highsec is basicly 0 risk. This is about lazy people wanting to jump around in highsec and completely avoiding jumping 20 jumps to take stuff to market or visa versa. They just don't want to be scanned down and ganked after people see whats in their hold.(hint Courier Contracts) Try reading before posting please. then you might have something useful to say I think you failed to see posts from me almost from page one there m8. Originally by: Evanga As i read this you dont know you can jump from out of high sec to low sec. CCP could build in a restriction of not being able to jump from high sec to high sec. MY point is to be able to jump from low into high sec. Nothing more. Period. all that was asked for is the ability to jump from low to hi sec not hi sec to hi sec exactly!
Kitti Kenzaki	Posted - 2008.11.03 18:53:00 - [108] Solution is simple : A Low sec system near high sec (1 jump). A station/POS in this system. Cyno a station. JF jumps. - If agressed > dock - If not under attack > jump 0km to Star Gate. > High sec cyno are useless and it will open a can of worms as CCP love to say. Ideas for a complete Bounty Hunter profession sytem.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.11.03 22:52:00 - [109] Originally by: Furb Killer Skunk is correct on that risk now is allready very low. However since we are apparently removing boring stuff, why not also give normal freighters ability to jump between high sec systems, otherwise it is boring. And how about you just start a lvl 4 mission and you get 20M isk without the need to do anything. good idea . start a thread and ill support it SKUNK Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
Dogfighter	Posted - 2008.11.04 17:39:00 - [110] Edited by: Dogfighter on 04/11/2008 17:42:47 Originally by: DiaBlo UK with the nature of these ships being mainly to get things in and out of 0.0 a certain level of risk should be associated with it. Being able to jump from highsec and back to high sec removes too much of the risk. If you can afford a 4bil ship, and have enough people to control some 0.0 space then you should be able to secure a low sec system long enough to dock or jump(through a gate) your JF out. I agree. Where is the risk? How are JFs going to explode? They must have a weak point, and this weak point is when they return from low-sec/0.0 to high-sec. I do not support the idea of cynos in high-sec. Soon, someone will ask why a Rorqual cannot use the high-sec cyno, since it is not a war ship like the JFs. Edit just for typos.

Machine Delta GoonWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.05 13:59:00 - [111] Horrible idea, you'd take all risk out of 0.0 logistics. 0.0 could use a buff but not something like this.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2008.11.09 05:19:00 - [112] nay, boo , there should be risk in eve.
RedLion Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.10 00:49:00 - [113] Let people cyno into high sec, but only if they are in non-npc corporations. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.10 00:59:00 - [114] Originally by: RedLion Let people cyno into high sec, but only if they are in non-npc corporations. Sure. But first Freighters and Jump Freighters have to be limited to people within player corps.
Abel Tasman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.10 02:47:00 - [115]


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