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EVE Online: Empyrean Age 1.1.1 Patch Deployment Discussion Thread

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Inspiration	Posted - 2008.09.30 12:36:00 - [91] Originally by: Jilnor Pros: The avoidance system is lovely. Thanks! Cons: "The star map popup button (for switching between system, solarsystem and starmap) will now relocate surrounding windows correctly." This is a new bug, why on Earth do something like that? I already hate it like no tomorrow that I have to reposition 5-6 windows every time I log in. In other words: If I positition my window manually, I want it to stay right there until I move it myself next time. No exceptions. Anything else is just kicking players to the nuts for no apparent reason. The screen real estate is at premium in Eve, there is no way you can automatically guess where I want my windows. Just let them stay where I want them. Thanks. SIGNED!
YBLEW Caldari Helio Heading	Posted - 2008.09.30 12:48:00 - [92] Originally by: Inspiration Originally by: Jilnor Pros: The avoidance system is lovely. Thanks! Cons: "The star map popup button (for switching between system, solarsystem and starmap) will now relocate surrounding windows correctly." This is a new bug, why on Earth do something like that? I already hate it like no tomorrow that I have to reposition 5-6 windows every time I log in. In other words: If I positition my window manually, I want it to stay right there until I move it myself next time. No exceptions. Anything else is just kicking players to the nuts for no apparent reason. The screen real estate is at premium in Eve, there is no way you can automatically guess where I want my windows. Just let them stay where I want them. Thanks. SIGNED! ok got to agree dont fancy this
Dr Sheepbringer	Posted - 2008.09.30 13:09:00 - [93] Originally by: Varna Great changes... How does the autopilot react when we plot jumps through systems and while we are autopilotjumping encounter a system that is "capped" after we set the autopilot active? does it stop and continue later or does it stop completely? Isn't that obvious? Calculating a new route via lowsec/0.0! If you get popped even less strain on the system!
Jilnor Caldari Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.09.30 13:12:00 - [94] Originally by: Ilwrathian Contracts have cancellation confirmation. So should Market orders. I second that. Especially as "Modify Order" is right next to it, and I pick that option like 150-400 times every day..
Mr Dougle Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.09.30 13:32:00 - [95] thank you CCP for giving me the time to fix my sick PC.
Roddick3771	Posted - 2008.09.30 13:51:00 - [96] hmmmm, what about that stupid thing the mouse wheel does :) lol
node14u	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:14:00 - [97] thanks for a bypass to maurasi system
Aceje88 Caldari Haiduken	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:34:00 - [98] Few things inhere that sure are to my liking and probably a lot of other people.
vleuten Amarr Ghost in the Machine Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Mr Dougle thank you CCP for giving me the time to fix my sick PC. Gheheh, i whist that i had my new cpu, than i will rebuild and reinstall my sick eve-PC
Karthwritte	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:47:00 - [100] well I had an Idea for the traffic control in Jita: PAY FOR GET IN!

Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:47:00 - [101] Good morning, Here are my concerns with this patch. @ A new autopilot feature has been added: Avoid System. CCP, we don't want to avoid overloaded systems. We would like you to fix the async queue problems on your backend to reduce the odd client behavior that occurs when your nodes are overloaded. This feature should be plugged as being handy for avoiding GCamps and patrolled pipes in 0-0. It is not a solution to the CCP server capacity issue. @ Dynamic System Cap Further implementation of this limit is a tremendously bad thing. This will mean that the "1st fleet into a system" will win. This will also means that any alliance can simply blob a system and hold it for an indefinite period of time. Once again, please fix the capacity problem. Stop trying to mitigate it with bad ideas. @ An Auto-Move feature has been added You've now created a workable exploit. When being chased by war targets, all I will have to do is jump into a capacity-limited system. We don't want exploits added to the game, we just want you to resolve your capacity and backend issues. @ 3 new jumps have been added around Jita How does this mitigate your capacity issues on all of the other systems in the game? How are corp/aliances that are dependant on this bottleneck (Privateers) responding? @ Added a show all check box to the reprocessing dialog Wow, neat. After a 2 hour grid load, I'll make sure to check this out. This will definitely be the "ray-of-light" that all the pilots in M-OEE8 are looking for! @ The services button has been hidden on the Neocom. What's a Neocom? All in all, the crux this patch accomplishes the opposite of what your customers would like. We want CCP to "fix lag", whether it be through hardware, implementation of a fair scheduler, grid instancing, or dropping atomic rollbacks on the DB during overloaded fleet battles. "Fix lag". Say it out loud a few times. It's what everyone asks you for. They want the lag fixed. Write it on a sticky note and place it on your monitor. "Fix lag". When you scrum about the next feature update, ask the question, "what does this do to fix lag". Order coffee mugs for your office with the words "Fix Lag" on them, place them in the office kitchen. "Fix Lag". Don't do anything else. No updates, no features, no content, no addons, no expansions. "Fix Lag". Postpone your next nerf, ignore balance issues. "Fix Lag". Thank you for your time, Frank What is an OTAL?
Markius Proxim Wolverine Solutions	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:55:00 - [102] wtb: dynamic login locations for 0.0 lag warz yeah test it first in jita, but don't pretend like people don't crash 0.0 nodes more then jita. Sometimes i wonder if GMs/Devs know 0.0 exists. I'm back in empire and still feel neglected. ♥
Maldus NiKunni	Posted - 2008.09.30 14:57:00 - [103] when is the premium graphics client going to get the ice mining lasers to go back to the killer blue color instead of the crappy regular ore mining red lasers like it is suppossed to be and we were promised a fix 6 months ago?
Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:04:00 - [104] Are we back yet?
Dr Radek	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:04:00 - [105] Originally by: Lithia Tsanov Good morning, Here are my concerns with this patch. @ A new autopilot feature has been added: Avoid System. CCP, we don't want to avoid overloaded systems. We would like you to fix the async queue problems on your backend to reduce the odd client behavior that occurs when your nodes are overloaded. This feature should be plugged as being handy for avoiding GCamps and patrolled pipes in 0-0. It is not a solution to the CCP server capacity issue. @ Dynamic System Cap Further implementation of this limit is a tremendously bad thing. This will mean that the "1st fleet into a system" will win. This will also means that any alliance can simply blob a system and hold it for an indefinite period of time. Once again, please fix the capacity problem. Stop trying to mitigate it with bad ideas. @ An Auto-Move feature has been added You've now created a workable exploit. When being chased by war targets, all I will have to do is jump into a capacity-limited system. We don't want exploits added to the game, we just want you to resolve your capacity and backend issues. @ 3 new jumps have been added around Jita How does this mitigate your capacity issues on all of the other systems in the game? How are corp/aliances that are dependant on this bottleneck (Privateers) responding? @ Added a show all check box to the reprocessing dialog Wow, neat. After a 2 hour grid load, I'll make sure to check this out. This will definitely be the "ray-of-light" that all the pilots in M-OEE8 are looking for! @ The services button has been hidden on the Neocom. What's a Neocom? All in all, the crux this patch accomplishes the opposite of what your customers would like. We want CCP to "fix lag", whether it be through hardware, implementation of a fair scheduler, grid instancing, or dropping atomic rollbacks on the DB during overloaded fleet battles. "Fix lag". Say it out loud a few times. It's what everyone asks you for. They want the lag fixed. Write it on a sticky note and place it on your monitor. "Fix lag". When you scrum about the next feature update, ask the question, "what does this do to fix lag". Order coffee mugs for your office with the words "Fix Lag" on them, place them in the office kitchen. "Fix Lag". Don't do anything else. No updates, no features, no content, no addons, no expansions. "Fix Lag". Postpone your next nerf, ignore balance issues. "Fix Lag". Thank you for your time, Frank /signed, bravo
GOLIATH FIGHTER	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:07:00 - [106] does the changes includes avoiding hostile territories too? since one time i was on auto pilot and end up going to galentee space where i was shoot down by thier navies, i know im not allowed there since i have -6.0 standing at thier faction but the problem is, i am from jita auto pilot to unpas but my ship went the wrong way and bring me to galentee space instead where i lost my multi million ship in the hands of galentee navies,
novafire Caldari Elevated Interests	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:08:00 - [107] Deployment has been put back to 17.00 GMT:( FS
Fennicus Amarr Heracles.	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:12:00 - [108] Edited by: Fennicus on 30/09/2008 15:15:16 Originally by: Lithia Tsanov @ An Auto-Move feature has been added You've now created a workable exploit. When being chased by war targets, all I will have to do is jump into a capacity-limited system. We don't want exploits added to the game, we just want you to resolve your capacity and backend issues. Yes, all you need to do now is to make X jumps into Jita, then log out, and come back on during peak time - bingo! You have the option to be moved somewhere else. This feature is surely the downfall of EVE as we know it. The system cap stuff they've implented is designed for systems like Jita, and presumably places where future "world events" will occur. It's not going to be switched on for 0-0 space while there are fleet battles going on. Being an Angry Internet Man about it doesn't help but spread these silly misconceptions, so please cut it out.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:15:00 - [109] Originally by: Lithia Tsanov All in all, the crux this patch accomplishes the opposite of what your customers would like. We want CCP to "fix lag", whether it be through hardware, implementation of a fair scheduler, grid instancing, or dropping atomic rollbacks on the DB during overloaded fleet battles. I think you confuse 'opposite' and 'incomplete'. There are two basic ways to address lag... decrease the load or change how the load is handled. This patch addresses the former by making it easier to not jump into high load areas when you have no actual business there. This decreases the load on the server and thus reduces the lag on that node. True it is not as good as ripping out the back end infrastructure and building something new that handles the issues better, but it is still something. What you are asking for.. it's like saying 'solve world hunger! but don't feed people because that isn't the problem' As for your individual ideas.... grid instancing might help but only splits the problem up more (and does not fix it on a grid level), and would do nothing to help the market transactions or fleet battles. hardware.. yes, you can always throw more hardware at a problem, but you get a diminishing return out of it. fair scheduler? have you ever tried to work on schedulers? fair rarely is and outside real time situations the benefits are not as great as one would hope. a 10% boost would be amazing. dropping atomic rollbacks? safety nets are good, and I do not think anyone would be happy if a fleet battle is going on and suddenly all the data is garbage. I hear this type of suggestion a lot when dealing with lagged databases.. and having been in charge of implementing such stuff and then getting the heat when people start discovering what the reduced reliability costs them... no.. trust me.. just no.
SoD EnGun	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:41:00 - [110] Originally by: YBLEW The EVE Online: Empyrean Age 1.1.1 patch will be deployed this Tuesday, 30th September and Tranquility will be down from 11.00 to 17.00 GMT. Please don't tell me you're surprised. If I were a smart guy I'd organise a lottery. The guy that could guess the time Eve would be back on-line takes it all. But I'm not... so I'll just sit quietly neat the comp and hope that I will get to play for at least an hour today (if I'm lucky).

YBLEW Caldari Helio Heading	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:43:00 - [111] Originally by: SoD EnGun Originally by: YBLEW The EVE Online: Empyrean Age 1.1.1 patch will be deployed this Tuesday, 30th September and Tranquility will be down from 11.00 to 17.00 GMT. Please don't tell me you're surprised. If I were a smart guy I'd organise a lottery. The guy that could guess the time Eve would be back on-line takes it all. But I'm not... so I'll just sit quietly neat the comp and hope that I will get to play for at least an hour today (if I'm lucky). did think of running a book on the uptime
Lithia Tsanov	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:45:00 - [112] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Lithia Tsanov All in all, the crux this patch accomplishes the opposite of what your customers would like. We want CCP to "fix lag", whether it be through hardware, implementation of a fair scheduler, grid instancing, or dropping atomic rollbacks on the DB during overloaded fleet battles. I think you confuse 'opposite' and 'incomplete'. I have a fairly good handle on it. I want them to "fix" the problem, you seem to go for "mitigation". @grid instancing might help but only splits the problem up more (and does not fix it on a grid level), and would do nothing to help the market transactions or fleet battles. Why should/would a market transaction affect a fleet battle? Why are the market transactions touching the same servers that fleet session/state information is being stored on? @fair scheduler? have you ever tried to work on schedulers? fair rarely is and outside real time situations the benefits are not as great as one would hope. a 10% boost would be amazing. Yes, and Yes. We're not looking for a boost, what we're going for is "not receiving an insurance eve-mail _before_ initiating warp to the battle". The game can slow down. Time can slow down. The async/queue/desync problems must be fixed. A ship cannot be destroyed before it is fired upon (from a pilots perspective). I deal with this nightmare every day for transactions involving _real_ money. @dropping atomic rollbacks? safety nets are good, and I do not think anyone would be happy if a fleet battle is going on and suddenly all the data is garbage The data would never become garbage (garbage is when you break referential integrity). You would see quirks, where "You're still getting shot by a ship that blew up a moment ago". This are no different than the _current_ async/desync atomic quirks, but it'd be a heck of a lot faster. Rollbacks are an order of magnitude more expensive (computationally) than a roll forward. Eliminate rollbacks in fleet battles. Nobody will notice a difference in behaviour, but there will be a _huge_ increase in the perceived speed. This isn't real money CCP is dealing with. It's internet spaceships and hitpoints. Details and methodological opinions aside, I think we're both on the same page. "Fix Lag". Frank
Vincent VonGleet	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:46:00 - [113] Is this going to turn into another cluster**** like the last time? I set a skill to go 18 hours because I had to get some sleep and go to work knowing that it would end less than an hour after the uptime. Now we'll be down for what? 4, 5 6 extra hours that we're paying for? Oh, I know expansions are free, but breakage isn't. Here's a word, and you can look up any permutation of it in your own thesaurus. TEST That's right. That word should be most important in situations like this. Test your fixes to make sure they truly ARE fixes.
Apple Boy Gallente Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:48:00 - [114] Originally by: Lithia Tsanov @ A new autopilot feature has been added: Avoid System. CCP, we don't want to avoid overloaded systems. We would like you to fix the async queue problems on your backend to reduce the odd client behavior that occurs when your nodes are overloaded. This feature should be plugged as being handy for avoiding GCamps and patrolled pipes in 0-0. It is not a solution to the CCP server capacity issue. then don't avoid them? it's optional. I hardly see how this is some sort of bad thing, you can already do it by looking at hot spots on the map and setting waypoints in your autopilot around said systems. This just makes it a bit less timeconsuming. Quote: @ Dynamic System Cap Further implementation of this limit is a tremendously bad thing. This will mean that the "1st fleet into a system" will win. This will also means that any alliance can simply blob a system and hold it for an indefinite period of time. Once again, please fix the capacity problem. Stop trying to mitigate it with bad ideas. I must've missed the spot in the dev blog, patch notes, and this thread where CCP said they planned on applying this outside of Jita, please link it. This isn't a bad thing to have for Jita. Quote: @ An Auto-Move feature has been added You've now created a workable exploit. When being chased by war targets, all I will have to do is jump into a capacity-limited system. We don't want exploits added to the game, we just want you to resolve your capacity and backend issues. Yes, hope you make it to jita and can jump in before dying while being chased by hostiles, then log and hope you're the last one in before you hit the cap so they can't follow you in, or you're the last few in so you can be able to move yourself... Quote: @ 3 new jumps have been added around Jita How does this mitigate your capacity issues on all of the other systems in the game? How are corp/aliances that are dependant on this bottleneck (Privateers) responding? What other system hits 1000+ users at peak times on an almost daily basis? Not to mention, I don't see nearly as many privateers camping jita anymore. I'm sure they'll manage Quote: @ Added a show all check box to the reprocessing dialog Wow, neat. After a 2 hour grid load, I'll make sure to check this out. This will definitely be the "ray-of-light" that all the pilots in M-OEE8 are looking for! emo pilot spotted Quote: @ The services button has been hidden on the Neocom. What's a Neocom? Try using google, took me 5 seconds to be able to pull up the answer Quote: emo rage about lag You fail at your "fix lag" comments. The improvements to lag issues that CCP has made in the past few weeks, especially with the stackless IO has been amazing. I still remember when a system with 300 people in it wouldn't load if a battle was going not even three months ago, and then with the stackles IO and the 64bit server in action in mshd with 400+ and minimal lag, that was awesome! To play devil's advocate, look at this from an economical standpoint. There are over 200,000 registered players in the game as stated by CCP. Looking at the alliance rankings of amount of players in the biggest alliances, 15k or so, of which how much participate in the huge 200+ man battles on a regular basis, 5k players tops? CCP is in the business of making money. Pretty graphics and new features get more people to register than spending all of their resources solely on lag, especially considering you're complaining about the lag and yet still pay. It's just not economically viable for them to spend 100% of their efforts on fixing lag in fleet battles when it affects less than 5% of the player base. All things considered CCP is one of the best companies when it comes to listening to their player base, being open about changes, explaining how their systems work in the devblogs, etc. Can you name a company that does a better job than CCP
Deyonius Rasium	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:51:00 - [115] Originally by: Treelox coolness.. glad to see you guys work in the avoidance system so quickly. Best sarcastic quote ever.
RevJack Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:56:00 - [116] 5 Mins to go?
YBLEW Caldari Helio Heading	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:57:00 - [117] Originally by: RevJack 5 Mins to go? try a hour and 5 at least m8
Deyonius Rasium	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:57:00 - [118] When are they going to fix the Pilgrim? It's broken without range..:(
KayTwoEx	Posted - 2008.09.30 15:58:00 - [119] and again ccp doesn't get the patch online in time :-/ business as usual...
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.09.30 16:00:00 - [120] Originally by: Vincent VonGleet Is this going to turn into another cluster**** like the last time? I set a skill to go 18 hours because I had to get some sleep and go to work knowing that it would end less than an hour after the uptime. Now we'll be down for what? 4, 5 6 extra hours that we're paying for? Oh, I know expansions are free, but breakage isn't. Here's a word, and you can look up any permutation of it in your own thesaurus. TEST That's right. That word should be most important in situations like this. Test your fixes to make sure they truly ARE fixes. Ok, YOU test and release your own huge internet spaceship game, and run it over 5 years with all sorts of code in there that has mutated over time, and when you can put out a patch that deploys perfectly the first time on time every time, we'll all flock to you and your grand genius. If you ever ONCE fail at doing it right, though, me and my 100 accounts will quit your game.



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