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Confessions of a lowsec freighter pilot.

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Capn' Krunch Gallente Pluralistic Intentions Guild Services	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:29:00 - [1] I have logged off to avoid losing my ship, multiple times. Do I feel bad about it? Not really, we get ahead in this game by whatever means necessary, there is no honor in combat, so why should I be 'honorable' and sit around and let the red flashies explode my giant space piniata? For those that are not aware of how this works it is executed as follows: When you see red flashies on gate, ctrl-q whilst still gatecloaked, the quicker you can spot the flashies the better. Wait 30 seconds or so and log back in, as you see the popup on the black screen saying you are entering space, ctrl-q again. Wait a few more seconds then log in for real. Instead of warping back in on the gate, you will end up at the place you first emergency warped to. So then immediately start warping to your next gate and continue on happy as a clam with your space piniata intact. If you are unlucky there will be someone with really good probing skills waiting to probe you out and there is a small small chance you can get caught, but it has never happened to me. I just had to get this off my chest, as I belive there are freighter pilots out there who could benefit from knowing this trick. Oh, and it is really fun to spend the rest of your time in system chatting it up with the flashies who tried to kill you, as they are almost always very unhappy about your conduct and hilarity ensues. >-------------------------------------------------< Asteroids are my breakfast cereal.
Mes Devour Blackwater Syndicate World Coalition of United Armies	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:37:00 - [2] Giant space piniata - lol
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:43:00 - [3] Originally by: Capn' Krunch I have logged off to avoid losing my ship, multiple times. Do I feel bad about it? Not really, we get ahead in this game by whatever means necessary, there is no honor in combat, so why should I be 'honorable' and sit around and let the red flashies explode my giant space piniata? Epic rationalization. Do you knock the board over when you start to lose in board games too? - DesuSigs
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:45:00 - [4] I once chased a Fenrir across half of Old Man Star that was doing this. I couldn't figure out how he kept being able to warp so fast. I'd drop a probe, 20 seconds later get a 0m, warp in, he'd vanish, lather, rinse repeat until he got to a station. Very irritating, and frankly smells like an exploit. CCP probably should disallow logoffs immediately after connection- basically, once you log on you're in-game for 5 minutes, period, even if you CTRL-Q.
Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:47:00 - [5] ahh what? Don't you have to uncloak and warp? Meanwhile they can lock you and keep you there? Are you a pirate hoping for more freightor log offs?
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:51:00 - [6] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 26/09/2008 22:54:07 Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Capn' Krunch I have logged off to avoid losing my ship, multiple times. Do I feel bad about it? Not really, we get ahead in this game by whatever means necessary, there is no honor in combat, so why should I be 'honorable' and sit around and let the red flashies explode my giant space piniata? Epic rationalization. Do you knock the board over when you start to lose in board games too? Well, not really a good analogy. Knocking the board over doesn't help you get ahead or win you a game or anything. Now honestly, I find ctrl-q cheesy. I'm a pirate... and I find it very aggravating. I don't ctrl-q myself, but that's because I see it like this: I undocked in a combat ship with the intent of killing someone. If they kill me, tough shit, that's how the game is played. But I can hardly blame anyone else for doing it. Really only **es me off when people are flying combat ships. I mean, you undock a combat ship with the intent of shooting people. Following that up with "oh god I'm doing to die ctrl-q ctrl-q ctrl-q" is cheesed out to the max. But freighters logging? Cheesy? Yeah. Should CCP do something to fix ctrl-q being overpowered? Yes. But you can hardly blame them. Really... Originally by:** Jimer Lins CCP probably should disallow logoffs immediately after connection- basically, once you log on you're in-game for 5 minutes, period, even if you CTRL-Q. I like that. Emergency warp serves a very important function. Anyone who has suffered with hideous connection problems can tell you that. (For two years I suffered a connection that would randomly die 5+ times a die, at random times, and for random periods of time.)
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:52:00 - [7] Originally by: Jimer Lins CCP probably should disallow logoffs immediately after connection- basically, once you log on you're in-game for 5 minutes, period, even if you CTRL-Q. The five minute figure may require some renegotiation, but I like this idea.
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:55:00 - [8] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Capn' Krunch I have logged off to avoid losing my ship, multiple times. Do I feel bad about it? Not really, we get ahead in this game by whatever means necessary, there is no honor in combat, so why should I be 'honorable' and sit around and let the red flashies explode my giant space piniata? Epic rationalization. Do you knock the board over when you start to lose in board games too? Exactly, why play a game if you don't play by the rules? What the hell do they get out of it? I thought the point was to beat your opponent using the rules of the game in order to feel like you have achieved something. Logging out isn't part of the game at all, so invokation of 'honor' is irrelevant in any way it is applied. It's like saying that taking your oppenents pieces off their chess board while they are out of the room isn't 'dishonorable', because it's only a game right? You don't really 'win' anything when you beat your opponents using mechanisms that aren't part of the game. Maybe the next time I have a game of pool, I should go pot all the balls by hand and say "hey I won, we get ahead in this game by whatever means necessary". Waste of a subscription. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:59:00 - [9] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 26/09/2008 23:01:57 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Well, not really a good analogy. Knocking the board over doesn't help you get ahead or win you a game or anything. It stops you from losing. Close enough. Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Now honestly, I find ctrl-q cheesy. I'm a pirate... and I find it very aggravating. I don't ctrl-q myself, but that's because I see it like this: I undocked in a combat ship with the intent of killing someone. If they kill me, tough shit, that's how the game is played. But I can hardly blame anyone else for doing it. Really only **es me off when people are flying combat ships. I mean, you undock a combat ship with the intent of shooting people. Following that up with "oh god I'm doing to die ctrl-q ctrl-q ctrl-q" is cheesed out to the max. But freighters logging? Cheesy? Yeah. Should CCP do something to fix ctrl-q being overpowered? Yes. But you can hardly blame them. Really... Why not? They play a game built around consequences, and then mash the 'nullify consequences plz' button at every opportunity? Why play at all? Even highsec mission ***s hide from risk within the game. Escaping the game when it doesn't go your way is just... - DesuSigs
Setarcos Nous	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:00:00 - [10] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Jimer Lins CCP probably should disallow logoffs immediately after connection- basically, once you log on you're in-game for 5 minutes, period, even if you CTRL-Q. The five minute figure may require some renegotiation, but I like this idea. Probably not a good idea. If someone is actually having connection problems, this would royally screw them. All they need to do is not create a new warp out location with every logout/login. That way people that are actually trying to abuse it will just keep ending up in the same place. If they just created the "emergency safespot" upon entering the system (not counting logging in while in space, but counting jumping into a system and undocking from one of its stations), it would eliminate this abuse.
Vabjekf	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:01:00 - [11] eves greatest flaw, gates.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Setarcos Nous Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Jimer Lins CCP probably should disallow logoffs immediately after connection- basically, once you log on you're in-game for 5 minutes, period, even if you CTRL-Q. The five minute figure may require some renegotiation, but I like this idea. Probably not a good idea. If someone is actually having connection problems, this would royally screw them. All they need to do is not create a new warp out location with every logout/login. That way people that are actually trying to abuse it will just keep ending up in the same place. If they just created the "emergency safespot" upon entering the system (not counting logging in while in space, but counting jumping into a system and undocking from one of its stations), it would eliminate this abuse. Any solution to Ctrl+Q is likely to screw over real disconnects. I like your idea though. - DesuSigs
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:06:00 - [13] But it isn't five minutes (or whatever) for any disconnect. The plan would be to keep someone's ship in space for the first five minutes of their time online, so unless they disconnected inside that window they wouldn't have a problem. If someone is having disconnection issues that are coming at such short intervals they probably won't be bothered to log in much anyway. But anything that modifies ctrl+Q for everyone regardless of how long they've been in has the potential to screw with people who do have legitimate disconnects, agreed.
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:11:00 - [14] Its sad but true, CCP has intentionally or unintentionally made this a valid game mechanic. So until they fix the issue, such as the fix for dictor bubbles applied to all warp scrambling mods, people will still do it. If it **es you off, the best thing you could do s make sure everyone knows, hype it up, until it gets so wide spread they have to do something about it (like the first nano nerf). ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ****** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:27:00 - [15] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 26/09/2008 23:30:54 Originally by: Crumplecorn Why not? They play a game built around consequences, and then mash the 'nullify consequences plz' button at every opportunity? Why play at all? Even highsec mission ***s hide from risk within the game. Escaping the game when it doesn't go your way is just... Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that it's a "cool" thing to do or that I like the game mechanic. I'm just saying that at this point, that tactic is something that is quite effective, and is available to the player. If they choose not to use it on principle (as I do, for instance), then that's fine. However, I feel that simply because I choose not to use that tool doesn't mean that I can cast aspersions on someone for using an available tool - no matter how cheesy I feel that it is. Once again: that doesn't change the fact that I think that CCP can and should change how the mechanic works. Just to clarify. Edit: I don't follow you on the high sec mission *** point. Why log when you can just pop the scrambling frigates ahead of time and warp out for a guaranteed ass-saving? (I've had legit disconnects on my mission character, and came back in a pod because I hadn't popped the scram frigs yet.)
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Crazy Tasty Its sad but true, CCP has intentionally or unintentionally made this a valid game mechanic. So until they fix the issue, such as the fix for dictor bubbles applied to all warp scrambling mods, people will still do it. If it **es you off, the best thing you could do s make sure everyone knows, hype it up, until it gets so wide spread they have to do something about it (like the first nano nerf). Indeed non exploits like this make a clown out of ccp. The OP is openly admitting to it. Aproximatly 80% of freighter pilots I see use this tactic as a matter of course.Titans and MOMs are doing it out in 0.0 to escape so called ** cages. Its widespread and uncombatable. There is no reason why the infinity point scram on a HIC should not stop a loggers ship from disapearing. At the very least, the warp back in point should remain where it is, irrespective of the number of times you log off midwarp. CCP any chance of a comment why you persist in moving the warp back in point each time SKUNK
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:36:00 - [17] If you think such an "exploit" is sad, how do you feel about people who still think that gate camping is PVP? How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:38:00 - [18] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 26/09/2008 23:45:54 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing that it's a "cool" thing to do or that I like the game mechanic. I'm just saying that at this point, that tactic is something that is quite effective, and is available to the player. If they choose not to use it on principle (as I do, for instance), then that's fine. However, I feel that simply because I choose not to use that tool doesn't mean that I can cast aspersions on someone for using an available tool - no matter how cheesy I feel that it is. I disagree. I think people who play a game full of risk, but willing to go so far as to abuse the limitations of the game to avoid that risk, deserve a facepalm at the very least. Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edit: I don't follow you on the high sec mission *** point. Why log when you can just pop the scrambling frigates ahead of time and warp out for a guaranteed ass-saving? (I've had legit disconnects on my mission character, and came back in a pod because I hadn't popped the scram frigs yet.) My point was simply that they make ISK while minimizing risk by sticking to highsec just as a lowsec freighter pilots do so by logging - but at least mission *s don't escape the game to escape the risk. Originally by:** Pan Crastus If you think such an "exploit" is sad, how do you feel about people who still think that gate camping is PVP? Gate camping is PvP. It's just really crap, boring PvP. A better question might be, how do you feel about trying to lag your enemy out in order to win? - DesuSigs
Buff Plankchest Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.26 23:49:00 - [19] I think that if you log off in space, your ship should warp to the usual safespot and stay there... no disappearing ships. That'd make loggers have to work harder
Plim Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute	Posted - 2008.09.27 00:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Pan Crastus If you think such an "exploit" is sad, how do you feel about people who still think that gate camping is PVP? No it's PVPTSTS. Player versus player too stupid to scout. Why do people always seem to think that PVP dosen't include all the preperation required to get in and out of PVP in the first place? If you die, usually it's because you lost an information war. People know that people camp gates, that's a normal and intentional part of the game mechanics and has been for 5 years. Comparing it to people using log-out metagaming is nonsensical. Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus."
Vabjekf	Posted - 2008.09.27 00:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Plim Originally by: Pan Crastus If you think such an "exploit" is sad, how do you feel about people who still think that gate camping is PVP? No it's PVPTSTS. Player versus player too stupid to scout. Why do people always seem to think that PVP dosen't include all the preperation required to get in and out of PVP in the first place? If you die, usually it's because you lost an information war. People know that people camp gates, that's a normal and intentional part of the game mechanics and has been for 5 years. Comparing it to people using log-out metagaming is nonsensical. One involves increasing server lag, and metagaming. The other involves using a regular feature so basic that it even has its own button. Scouting ahead with a seperate account and learning things that a single person is not meant to be able to obtain alone is more of an exploit that just turning the client off.
Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.09.27 01:20:00 - [22] Why is it so hard to just always return to the same spot? I wouldn't mind people logging off if they were legitimately stuck in one place... If you take the time to probe out someone that's logged off and put real effort into preparing an ambush (anchoring a bubble, camping the area etc), then you SHOULD be rewarded when they log back in and are caught.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.09.27 01:42:00 - [23] I dont blame him... since well, snicker no body likes being a giant space pinata XD I was laughing so hard... but yeah, if they give freighters some means of protecting itself...(no, escorts wont do.... not when the freighter is FRICKEN Slow.... and other players will not play bodyguard .... you have better chances getting ppl into low sec unwillingly than getting the normal ppl to go to low sec and play bodyguard...) as it stands right now... is a giant pinata... and nobody likes being a giant pinata... cheesy yes... but... cant really blame them... and before anyone flames me or op or whatever, TRY PUTTING YOURSELVES IN THEIR SHOES!!!!! flying a freighter in highsec is bad enough XD Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Mankirks Wife	Posted - 2008.09.27 01:50:00 - [24] Edited by: Mankirks Wife on 27/09/2008 01:54:24 Yay for shameless logoffski user. Sure it's cheesy, I don't think it's an exploit though. If it was you'd have to class its reverse (the log-on trap) as an exploit as well. Besides, this whole thread reminds me of that one Desu sig... In any case, I didn't think you would emergency warp if you were pointed... ---
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.09.27 02:54:00 - [25] Poasting in an Epic Disinformation thread. If your in a freighter and happen upon a gate camp plz plz plz plz do as the OP says. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Dotard Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.27 03:04:00 - [26] I was trying this over and over again to see if it was true. I kept returning to the original Log-off point. Am I doing something wrong or is this indeed misinformation? I saw no "Entering Space" popup, so I just ctrl+Q soon as I got graphics on the screen. Didn't work. ---------------
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.09.27 03:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Vabjekf One involves increasing server lag, and metagaming. The other involves using a regular feature so basic that it even has its own button. Scouting ahead with a seperate account and learning things that a single person is not meant to be able to obtain alone is more of an exploit that just turning the client off. An interesting counterargument, if you ignore the difference between a player and their character(s), don't count turning off the game in the middle of play as metagaming, and consider a single alt sitting at a gate a significant contribution to lag. - DesuSigs
Asantte	Posted - 2008.09.27 03:24:00 - [28] You don't need a second account to scout. Just ask a friend or corp mate to do it for you so that you don't metagame. Freighter is a big expensive and rather fragile transport ship. It ain't meant to travel alone in dangerous space.
Normin Bates	Posted - 2008.09.27 03:25:00 - [29] What's so funny is that some of you actually believe that shooting a freighter with no weapons or defenses is actually PvP. LOLz
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.09.27 03:30:00 - [30] Edited by: Zeba on 27/09/2008 03:32:35 Originally by: Asantte You don't need a second account to scout. Just ask a friend or corp mate to do it for you so that you don't metagame. Freighter is a big expensive and rather fragile transport ship. It ain't meant to travel alone in dangerous space. You don't even need a friend. Only a free slot on your single accont to make a nub n00b ship scout alt. Plan your route and if a few jumps through low sec is in order then move your n00b alt there in a n00b ship and run the 2~5 jumps to get back to safe empire and see if the local and gates are clear. If its clear then jump away. Tbh the best way though it might take an extra 20 minutes to do is to use the alt to scout only 1 jump ahead and if clear jump your freighter. Log off the freighter then relog the alt scout. Repeat until your in safe empire. Profit. Originally by: Normin Bates What's so funny is that some of you actually believe that shooting a freighter with no weapons or defenses is actually PvP. LOLz Freighters always drop fat loot otherwise why would it even be in space and trying to brave a low sec run? Pvp in Eve is not and never will be about some medeival jousting tournament where everyone is civil and takes turns to murder each other 1vs1 on equal terms. LULz. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan

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