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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.10.05 15:28:00 -
[1]
I'm sure I'll need a flame ******ant suit for this, however it's a pretty simply Issue;
If CSMs are banned from the forums or banned from EVE, they should be removed from the CSM immediately. This should be the case for both Temporary and Permanent bans.
The issue I can see with this is that it provides CCP with a mechanism for removing CSM members, so it would need to be documented that the person in question has received warnings first, and notified to the whole CSM that this is occuring.
On the other hand - do you really want someone who gets banned representing you?
Note: The situation of what happens when a CSM member gets removed is already dealt with: An Alternate is raised up in their place, in order of max votes received
Vote!
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.05 15:45:00 -
[2]
I thought this was the case already. Of course, this has to be done.
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Dierdra Vaal
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.05 16:19:00 -
[3]
you need both forums and game to interact with the CSM now that we have the CSM forum, and a CSM member who is banned on one of those (or both) channels will not be able to function in the CSM anymore.
It would make sense to remove them from the CSM, especially when it concerns permanent bans.
Training Director :: EVE University
CSM Representative |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.05 16:31:00 -
[4]
Makes sense to me. At the minimum an elected CSM delegate needs to be able to keep to the basic rules of conduct on the forums and in game so they can set an example to the playerbase.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.05 16:40:00 -
[5]
Support this initiative...
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.05 17:25:00 -
[6]
Isn't this already the case? I thought that if someone got banned from the game, they got booted from the CSM. If ythey don't, then I would support changing that. And I don't think that a forum ban is necessarily ejection-worthy - it certainly shouldn't be automatic.
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Fix the forums!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=886592Hersche |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.05 19:24:00 -
[7]
Considering CCP's occasional trigger-happy approach to bans, this has pretty impressive potential for abuse.
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Arithron
Gallente Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.05 19:27:00 -
[8]
It's clear from the documents that CSM members are expected to follow high standards of behaviour at all times. Getting oneself forum-banned should be enough to get oneself removed from the CSM, as it's pretty hard to discuss and interact in Jita hall etc without the ability to post! I'd also suggest that the actions that resulted in the forum-banning probably don't reflect well on the CSM. All organisations have the 'bring into disrepute' clause for removal from office (I'd lose my job!).
Take care,
Arithron
Better to be a live dog than a dead lion... |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.05 19:47:00 -
[9]
Given that you cannot apply to be on the CSM if you have had a ban in the past, that seems not unreasonable.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Pezzle
Amarr
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.05 19:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Pezzle on 05/10/2008 19:54:25
Not supported. First, CCP has already demonstrated unwillingness to get involved on that level of the CSM. Second, forum mods should not have that kind of power over the CSM.
Oh and Third, the potential for abuse of in game petition system and the like wasting time of CCP employees is immense.
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Joss Sparq
Caldari
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.06 02:35:00 -
[11]
Well, I acknowledge that it provides CCP with a legitimate appearing mechanism for removing CSM members. Obviously, as things stand now they're able to can anyone at any time for any reason anyway, while probably the only concern for them being the potential fallout for being seen doing it to a CSM after they lauded the whole thing in their public relations material. At least this kind of thing would give them something to point at in justification to the community, I suppose.
While I don't entirely think CCP are the kind of people to rock up, black-bag someone and drive off with them into the dark of night never to be seen again (without good reason) I am a little uncomfortable about the idea that a CSM member banned from the forums is automatically kicked from the CSM. No offence meant to the Forum Moderators, but since anything worth a ban is usually deleted from a post it doesn't seem very accountable to, well, us.
While I figure a certain degree of good conduct is required I've never expected any elected official to be an angel. On the other hand, anything they could post worth a ban would probably/usually incline me to be happy that they're gone but this won't always be the case.
I can't help but worry that this just mandates the potential for abuse.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.06 08:51:00 -
[12]
Forum ban - No
Ingame ban - Yes
You can get banned from the forums, very easily. I have seen people get forum bans for less than what CSM members have posted.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Dihania
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.10.06 09:29:00 -
[13]
[hrhr]
Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:15:00 -
[14]
Gets my vote
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:42:00 -
[15]
Supported, if it's not already the case. Yes there's an issue about whether they were justly banned, but then you're into 'did CCP do the right thing' territory, and given that 99.999% of the discussions in the entire set of forum constitute that in one form or another....
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My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Rasha Tar
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:06:00 -
[16]
There is no way in hell that a forum moderator should have final say on who can/cannot be a member of the CSM.
If you get banned in-game then yes, I could see a reason for removal from CSM, but being temporaryily banned from this forum should not result in removal from the CSM, especially with the inconsistencies of recent forum bannings (Darius banned for trolling, but Jade not for doing the same thing is just one example I can think of).
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:15:00 -
[17]
I'm unhappy with some appearances of the CSM on the forums, but I have mixed feelings with being booted from the CSM for a forum ban. I'm more for an investigation if that happens, and the CCP people behind the CSM scolding the CSM in violation, and deciding on action, rather than a forum ban resulting in removal 100% of the time.
After all, if this goes through, people can be provoked by alts or throwaway accounts on purpose, and it will likely result in a lot more trolling and harrassment of CSM on the forums to get them to lose their temper and get themselves banned.
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Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:21:00 -
[18]
You are kidding right? Ever heard of conflict of interest?
If a CSM member is banned from the game/forums the CSM itself should decide among themselves about the fate of their fellow member.
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Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.10.06 13:27:00 -
[19]
Who got b&?
Bet it was a goon 
This is not part of my sig.
...Or is it? |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.06 14:25:00 -
[20]
 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I'm unhappy with some appearances of the CSM on the forums, but I have mixed feelings with being booted from the CSM for a forum ban. I'm more for an investigation if that happens, and the CCP people behind the CSM scolding the CSM in violation, and deciding on action, rather than a forum ban resulting in removal 100% of the time.
Well I'd agree there could certainly be some kind of behind the scenes discussion going on - but ultimately if you are getting forum banned under the new enlightened forum regime we've got now then something is going wrong Ank. People do get sent emails from the moderators telling them when they've had posts removed/moved/whatnot and why and if they keep insulting other players then its really their own fault.
Quote:
After all, if this goes through, people can be provoked by alts or throwaway accounts on purpose, and it will likely result in a lot more trolling and harrassment of CSM on the forums to get them to lose their temper and get themselves banned.
Well to be quite honest, I very much doubt any CSM present or future is going to get as badly trolled and insulted and flamed and stalked than I've been this summer and at the end of it all I've still got my posting rights and managed to avoid breaking forum rules handling CSM business in the midst of some extremely ugly discussions. I've had literally hundreds of forum alts trolling me and the ultimate answer is simply to install CAOD-cleaner and block entire organizations and alt posters if you really can't handle these people with an even temper on Eve online.
I've found it hugely liberating to be able to say what I really think on SHC from time to time mind you :)
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Farrqua
Minmatar
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.06 14:56:00 -
[21]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Given that you cannot apply to be on the CSM if you have had a ban in the past, that seems not unreasonable.
Ban from the game or a ban from the forums? The proposal also included forum bans. Wasn't Jade banned from the forums at one point prior before sitting on the CSM?
A ban from the game I would agree. But not a ban from the forums. To get banned from the Game you had to violate the EULA. Banning from the forums means that you were being an over emo troll.
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Kyguard
Forged from Fire
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:20:00 -
[22]
Definitely agree.
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Drake Draconis
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Posted - 2008.10.06 16:56:00 -
[23]
Personally... if you get banned from the forums... you should get banned from the game and vice versa... as there's no real reason to be one or the other without the other.
As far as the CSM goes.... the CSM should be responsible for itself... but I have no idea what sort of system they have running.... but its a bit painfully obvious that anyone who gets banned from either or..should quickly be removed from the CSM (provided its a just cause)
/semi_support
PS: anything can be viewed as a potential serious abuse in power.... welcome to paranoia.
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Cheng
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.06 17:07:00 -
[24]
Yes.
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.06 17:38:00 -
[25]
I was going to vote against this because it can be easily abused, but then thats a good reason to vote for it.
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Bux Naked
Memetic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.06 17:43:00 -
[26]
Agreed. Just basic common sense.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.10.06 18:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: fuze
You are kidding right? Ever heard of conflict of interest?
If a CSM member is banned from the game/forums the CSM itself should decide among themselves about the fate of their fellow member.
No, not kidding. Yes, I've heard of conflict of interest.
I agree that the CSM itself should decide the fate of their fellow member, however this is problematic, as it means a faction in power can totally kick-out all other votes in CSM-members.
So based on the comments so far, I'll revise the ejection process like this;
Forum banning gives the CSM members the right to vote on whether the forum banned CSM member is kicked from the CSM. One vote may be taken per forum banning.
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SFShootme
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.06 18:32:00 -
[28]
Yes
[VIDEO] Paroxysm
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BlackKnight
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.06 19:34:00 -
[29]
/signed
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Coranor
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:02:00 -
[30]
So who got banned?
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