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Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.23 00:53:00 - [5941] Originally by: Glengrant Yeah - it is possible that this thing backfires - though don't assume so just because some people here say so on the forum. Even an epic threadnought like this involves only a small fraction of the player base. Most players don't read the forums much if at all. Some percentage of the playerbase will still not even know what GT was. Any new players of recent weeks never knew it was ever there and wouldn't expect it to be. Likewise, there are probably a good number of players past and present that don't frequent the forums and assume it's still a feature. Originally by: Glengrant To the guy above who won because he's playing less after deactivating some of his 9 accounts. That's great - win everywhere. :-) I win too - because I find it annoying when people have a zillion accounts (not that I would keep anybody from doing so - just don't like it). I bet CCP love it though. I wonder how many true subscribers they actually have though. If lots of people cut down to just one account maybe the roof would cave in. Originally by: Glengrant Regarding the patch note - doesn't prove what you think. GT never was a bug in the sense that a planned feature does not work. It's just a (likely originally unintended) sideeffect that CCP choose not to bother about to prevent for a long time - because yes - preventing GT probably needed a few lines of additional code and as long as people didn't use it much CCP shrugged it off. Yet the code has already been... er.. coded. It exists. We know this because it exists on Serenity. They could have implemented it there and then, yet chose not to. Previously, other CCP employees have posted of it's use as a feature to get people back into the game as a feature. Cutting your nose off to spite your face this may not be, however losing one's nose could be a by-product of making a general change to the system instead of coming up with a way of stopping character sales/abuse. The easiest way to have done this, having thought about it, would be for ccp to take on a role in the character transfer. All they had to do was make a ruling that a character had to be subbed for a certain period of time per 1M sp's for a transfer to be carried out. That way, if you abuse the system, you don't benefit until you reach the limit. If you use unsubbed training as a benefit to dipping in and out of the game purely for yourself - you're not affected. Originally by: Glengrant It's easy to imagine that some people paid 1-2 months to train a bunch of base skills - then pay alternate months to train high skills and then trade/sell off the char. I agree. And trading the character also brings in revenue for CCP. I do hope that now, with this change in unsubbed training, they come to some middle ground and make it free to transfer once or twice a year - since no one can abuse the system from this point onward. Originally by: Glengrant I also don't think that CCP would let pride get into the way if this really ****es too many people off. It's not a big deal. "Dear EVE players, we finally ended GT because we noticed that some players abused this to farm characters in a way that wasn't fair to us and the rest of the players. But we underestimated how much this change also affects our loyal players. We listened to what you had to say and decided to re-introduce GT as an officialy supported feature now." No problem at all. Easy spin History shows us, they will probably screw that up. Easy spin it should be. Look how that's worked out for them over unsubbed training already. They are more likely to announce it as a new feature in the next (yes i know it's free) expansion and increase the subs if they were to backtrack.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.23 01:06:00 - [5942] Originally by: Glengrant I don't get what the big deal is though. Either this really has a lot of effect because you guys did it a lot - then CCP is right and can easily take the hit from a few lost accounts to gain the many extra months that will now be paid. Or it was a rare thing - then CCP would have been wrong to invest anything in this change - but it would also just affect you guys once in a blue moon and this threadnought would be the most silly waste of time. I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children. The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning. I know some clueless commando is going to probably post straight after yet again - "Free lunch is over, It's CCP's game, they can do what they like! " - and the last part is correct, we know that - and that's why it's both a mystery and an insult that they should try to spin it rather than be honest. Originally by: Glengrant You are not paying for a particular number of days - you are paying for a typical month - that includes downtime and patch days. You're not getting back money for february either. ;-) Depends how you pay for your subs really. GTC's aren't monthly. Originally by: Glengrant And why does anybody even worry about 1 extra day (because of a lost patch day or whatever)? That's something like 50 cents. All of us have wasted 50 cents many times on stupid stuff (apologies to any players who might come from countries where Ç/$ exchange for a lot of local money). Any starving students will likely be already on GTCs. We're talking literally about small change here. Would be a nice gesture for when patches ran long overdue wouldn't it? Originally by: Glengrant And if anybody multiplies that by getting 9 accounts - that's your choice. And while CCP may drop a tear about closing some of these accounts down - I like about people getting rid of alt accounts. Out of curiosity... why?
MoiMine Miners In Barges	Posted - 2008.12.23 08:52:00 - [5943] well, my acct expires in a few hours. Due to the handling of this issue i will not return it was a good run, im just dissapointed in ccp's decisions on this issue. fly safe everyone -1 account (almost made it to 2 years)
Twarda Sztuka	Posted - 2008.12.23 09:48:00 - [5944] Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing. I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:08:00 - [5945] Edited by: Midas Man on 23/12/2008 10:10:08 To all you CCP fainbois, show your support for my idea in my sig. To everyone like myself that thinks the handling of this was poor support the thread in my sig. The ridiculous reasons stated reminds me of how a 5 year old trys to talk themselves out of trouble. To all those invisible people that these fainbois argue with who actually believe Ghost training is their right as a customer please refrain from flaming my thread. Thanks for all your support let unsubbed benefits out of EVE Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco. Support this thread Exploits
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:14:00 - [5946] Oh also, if anyone can be bothered I am sending daily Exploit report on this untill its fixed, I would send one but from the recent thread about the POS expoit I dont think 1 will be enough. so Exploit report away and lets get all these feature/bugs/exploits cleaned from the game. Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco. Support this thread Exploits
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:14:00 - [5947] Originally by: Twarda Sztuka Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing. I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED. omg The Ghost-training vote thread
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.23 10:16:00 - [5948] Originally by: Twarda Sztuka Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing. I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED. What is your stance on the Datacore Farmers?, ie set up research job lapse subscription and wait 6 months, Reactivate and reap the rewards of unsubbed research???? Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco. Support this thread Exploits
Grash Freedom Gallente I Maza	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:37:00 - [5949] Edited by: Grash Freedom on 23/12/2008 11:44:12 Ghost training? how about ghost isk making? isn't that considered unfair against paying customers? what if i put a sell order, close my account and after month i activate it? i will find the isks of the completed sales if they happened in my wallet how about poses? they make money while i am offline, or even why market orders are kept active when i am offline? i am not actually playing the game while logged off but i gain no matter what ghost training was a feature of eve, it was even advertized when i started playing, you can put ghost to whatever function there is in eve i can even ghost pvp with online towers that kill hostiles while i am offline or without a sub. i want actual days with every 30 day gametime i buy, 720 hours of game play, not calendar days, because thats what is fair, hell i can have 10 accounts with 3 chars in each one, 30 chars in total, 30 chars * 6 RD agents = 180 RD agents * 50 RP per day = 9000 rp total thats 3.8 million RP per year or almost 20 bils isk i can activate one account per month and drawn from the 3 chars the datacores make isks and deactivate, wait for next month and circle the accounts isn't that unfair?? possible but unfair right?
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:51:00 - [5950] Originally by: Grash Freedom some very valid points Pst please support my thread in Assembly hall, linked in my sig, I have suggested all these unfair unsubbed isk making schemes are removed like GT was. Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco. Support this thread Exploits
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.12.23 11:58:00 - [5951] Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Twarda Sztuka Ghost training was available for many years. Plenty of people did that (often unaware that this is a bug). And it costed CCP revenue. So once the decision was made it was resolved almost immediately. I wonder how many years we will have to wait for skill queuing. I don't mind the fact that only paying accounts should be able to train, but the training should be PAUSED and the moment subsription is paid it should be RESUMED. What is your stance on the Datacore Farmers?, ie set up research job lapse subscription and wait 6 months, Reactivate and reap the rewards of unsubbed research???? Shhhh, don't say anything, maybe they'll not change it 4tw. \o/ The Ghost-training vote thread
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:33:00 - [5952] Originally by: Gunnanmon What is your stance on the Datacore Farmers?, ie set up research job lapse subscription and wait 6 months, Reactivate and reap the rewards of unsubbed research???? Shhhh, don't say anything, maybe they'll not change it 4tw. \o/ TBH they need to change that one more than most, that exploit ruins part the tech2 market, and it is used to a massive extents where people are funding their accounts from it. Unlike Ghost training which only indirectly hurt other players by allowing cheaper skill points which it came at the cost of the account being otherwise useless unless it was datacore farming aswell. Where as Datacore farming accounts are active all the way through their unsubbed periods, and cause active player to get much less reward for their research ie cheaper datacores. Annoyed with the ghost training fiasco. Support this thread Exploits
Chani Fedaykin	Posted - 2008.12.23 14:49:00 - [5953] everytime i check this thread, i am astonished again, that ppl start to post with no or nearly no clue what this thread is (mainly) about. btw: thanks to all those that are still subscribed and keep on posting with my opinion - because i was not able to post nor will i be able to post in 5 days again. to all you 'fanboys' out there - as you can obviously see, some ppl do stand by their word and do stop using a product if they are not satisfied with the behaviour / crm of the seller. so to all those that frequently use the phrase 'accept it or quit' ... thats what enough of the previous posters do - but of course, those that stop paying at all wont be able to give you this nice little feedback thanks to ccp's policy to restrict posting to active accounts. only those that still have an active subscription - because they either paid in advance or decided to just reduce their accounts - are able to post here (and those that use ccp's 'generous' offer for 5days :P ) gratz to glengrant btw - you seem to be the first 'pro-unpaid-training-removal' person that is able to articulate himself properly. i dont have to reply to this post however thanks to squirrel (as usually) status: -1 account (semi paid) thanks to gtc price hype -1 account (mostly paid) thanks to unpaid training removal -1 account (fully paid) thanks to ccp's behaviour / crm
EnslaverOfMinmatar	Posted - 2008.12.23 15:01:00 - [5954] Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar on 23/12/2008 15:01:13 In Before The Convenient Disappearance. uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.23 22:50:00 - [5955] Originally by: Chani Fedaykin gratz to glengrant btw - you seem to be the first 'pro-unpaid-training-removal' person that is able to articulate himself properly. i dont have to reply to this post however thanks to squirrel (as usually) I agree with the first bit - Glengrant has shown real class in both this and the Starbase exploit thread. As for the second bit... sorry. I probably post too much for my own good.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.12.24 02:22:00 - [5956] Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:25:59 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:24:46 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:24:18 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:24:00 Edited by: Gunnanmon on 24/12/2008 02:23:19 Originally by: Chani Fedaykin everytime i check this thread, i am astonished again, that ppl start to post with no or nearly no clue what this thread is (mainly) about. btw: thanks to all those that are still subscribed and keep on posting with my opinion - because i was not able to post nor will i be able to post in 5 days again. to all you 'fanboys' out there - as you can obviously see, some ppl do stand by their word and do stop using a product if they are not satisfied with the behaviour / crm of the seller. so to all those that frequently use the phrase 'accept it or quit' ... thats what enough of the previous posters do - but of course, those that stop paying at all wont be able to give you this nice little feedback thanks to ccp's policy to restrict posting to active accounts. only those that still have an active subscription - because they either paid in advance or decided to just reduce their accounts - are able to post here (and those that use ccp's 'generous' offer for 5days :P ) gratz to glengrant btw - you seem to be the first 'pro-unpaid-training-removal' person that is able to articulate himself properly. i dont have to reply to this post however thanks to squirrel (as usually) status: -1 account (semi paid) thanks to gtc price hype -1 account (mostly paid) thanks to unpaid training removal -1 account (fully paid) thanks to ccp's behaviour / crm I had edited this reply, and added my own comments, but the phu-cking sh11ty forums decided to ignore my reply and just drop the above sh-1t instead, gj you kunts. 2nd Edit: Nice to see that "ph-uck" is censored" 3rd edit: and "sh1-t" 4th edit: God forbid we use words that are deemed by .....erm...someone, I guess, as being bad. Oh well, hyphens 4tw. The Ghost-training vote thread
Chani Fedaykin	Posted - 2008.12.24 04:48:00 - [5957] @squirrrel i am glad you actually do care and post as much as you do - especially because you are able to express and articulate yourself and your opinion including the reasons behind it. thats something i would like to recommend to some other posters too, but obviously life is not a bowl of cherries... @gunnanmon perhaps the easier approach would be to just refrain from using those (mostly) offensive words ... you would happen to even leave a much better impression of yourself ^^
Rocky Roid Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.25 12:22:00 - [5958] I think if you are going to do this you should make it possible to train more than 1 character at a time on the same account. I have 2 accounts because of the (can only train 1 character at a time on the same account). I would ghost train the skills and reactivate it periodicaly when I got realy bored of my main account. I can no longer afford to pay for 2 accounts so now I am down to 1 character perminantly.
Carl Druffee The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.12.25 21:07:00 - [5959] This has been a hated decision by many, including me. Lies, deceit and other things... One thing is trying to make more money, but lying to customers that pay your wages, your profits and your Hummers on Iceland. But now I start to see some logic, planned or coincidense. If you plan on providing a lot of those new short-term offers to get players back into the game, latest a free 5-day trial, valid until january 20th. Mine just expired, so I got a new offer via email, 30 days for $9.95 for reactivation, also valid until january 20th. With these offers coming every so often, I can understand that CCP don't want to have people being able to train on expired accounts. However, I don't think this is exactly what they planned, but I can live with it, if these kind of offers continue in the future. It will not change the fact that I will and have cut down on my number of accounts, but it makes me more open to accepting the decision. I still hate it.
Chani Fedaykin	Posted - 2008.12.25 23:00:00 - [5960] even if they will continue with these offers ... i still require an official statement on the 'real' reasons and the bad handling ccp has shown in this matter. otherwise i will for sure just ignore any 'package' that will yield a profit for ccp.
Violet Cobra Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.26 08:17:00 - [5961] Originally by: Carl Druffee But now I start to see some logic, planned or coincidense. If you plan on providing a lot of those new short-term offers to get players back into the game, latest a free 5-day trial, valid until january 20th. Mine just expired, so I got a new offer via email, 30 days for $9.95 for reactivation, also valid until january 20th. With these offers coming every so often, I can understand that CCP don't want to have people being able to train on expired accounts. However, I don't think this is exactly what they planned, but I can live with it, if these kind of offers continue in the future. I'd rather ask CCP WHY they're throwing out so many short-term offers on all those inactive accounts. Probably it's only because of the situation, that many people have closed their accounts and the overall numbers of active accounts gone down continuously within the last months.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.26 10:04:00 - [5962] Originally by: Violet Cobra Originally by: Carl Druffee But now I start to see some logic, planned or coincidense. If you plan on providing a lot of those new short-term offers to get players back into the game, latest a free 5-day trial, valid until january 20th. Mine just expired, so I got a new offer via email, 30 days for $9.95 for reactivation, also valid until january 20th. With these offers coming every so often, I can understand that CCP don't want to have people being able to train on expired accounts. However, I don't think this is exactly what they planned, but I can live with it, if these kind of offers continue in the future. I'd rather ask CCP WHY they're throwing out so many short-term offers on all those inactive accounts. Probably it's only because of the situation, that many people have closed their accounts and the overall numbers of active accounts gone down continuously within the last months. Possibly trying to hit high login figures for the Christmas period in order to boast about it to the press. Good PR tactic; if any negative press is released about the exploit, they can still maintain they have very high stats, so really it's a 'non-issue' and the subscribers are still behind the product.
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.26 18:56:00 - [5963] Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums I'm already ú30 per month better off as a result. I'll watch the forums to see if it looks like Eve (and CCP's attitude) improve, but I very much doubt it. We'll see what 2009 brings for Eve. My guess is that all the wonderful things scheduled for March aren't going to be anywhere near as wonderful as people are hoping (Faction Warfare anyone? Our recent "Industrial Expansion" (EXPANSION! HA!)) Anyway, good luck to all. Just remember how much you're paying CCP, and how much you've paid them already, and what exactly you get for that money
Gotrek Gurnisson Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.27 00:34:00 - [5964] Another cancellation here - both my accounts run out tomorrow. And I currently have no plans to renew in the next few years. Im going back to WAR (run in Europe by GOA) purely because: a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'. I suppose the next thing will be to nerf Amarr ships as they are FOTM by claiming a bug makes them too effective? Or fixing the 'bug' that makes the Raven the most used PVE ship? b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit. From whats been said about the involvement of the major alliances Im sure it it actually such a big issue that CCP dare not take action against all the perpetraitors - or they may end up losing 20%+ of their player base. c) WAR / GOAs customer service is improving (yes - I am serious!). Even though GOAs customer support has previously been laughable - they recently sorted out our guild server very quickly and eficiently when we hit major problems. In fact they are in some danger of being moved from my 'laughable customer support' category to 'mediocre customer support' category - which anyone with experience of DAOC or WAR will know is actually a huge improvement. And in all my DAOC and WAR experiences GOA / Mythic have never openly lied to their customer base. I may not agree with all their decisions and behaviour - but they do at least have the decency to tell us about changes first and the reasons why they are doing it. d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK. The Sterling-Euro exchange rate currently means CCP have effectively priced themselves out of the market for possibly many years to come. WAR costs ú8.99 for one account that allows access to all EU servers, with up to 10 chars per server. In comparison EVE currently costs about ú16 per account for one character that can be effectively levelled at any given time, and with exorbitant training requirements from rank 6 skills upwards. In the time it takes me to train one LV skill in EVE it is technically possible to level a char in WAR from level 1 to level 40 (level cap)! So I am happily hanging up my boots for a while until EVE becomes affordable once again, and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation. Fly safe everyone!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.27 22:02:00 - [5965] Edited by: Glengrant on 27/12/2008 22:02:03 Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Im going back to WAR (run in Europe by GOA) purely because: If WAR gives you overall better gaming experience then this is the right decision anyway. But if something like the removal of GT (or the spin CCP sells it with) is enough to make you quit a game that you otherwise enjoyed playing then I'm sorry to have to predict that this is very likely to happen with WAR or any other game too. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson a) CCPs attitude to arbitrarily changing a major feature of the game, and then claiming it to be a 'bugfix'. Care to mention what you are talking about? Please tell me you don't mean the nano-fix? I have trouble taking anybody serious who thinks BS should be able to fly at Interceptor speeds. That fix was overdue and long expected. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit. That horse has been flogged beyond dead already. IMHO it's safe to assume that restoring old DBs and looking through mountains of data to follow money trails and verifying what's legit or not is a time-consuming activity. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson c) [...]WAR / GOAs customer service [...] In fact they are in some danger of being moved from my 'laughable customer support' category to 'mediocre customer support' category [...] Err - so your argument is that you're quitting one game due to some alleged customer service issues - not to switch to some game that is free of that but actually just improving from "laughable" to "mediocre"? You lost me there. ;-) Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson And in all my DAOC and WAR experiences GOA / Mythic have never openly lied to their customer base. I may not agree with all their decisions and behaviour - but they do at least have the decency to tell us about changes first and the reasons why they are doing it. Hm - so you decide what game you play based mostly on whether the company does a bit of marketing spin (as they all do BTW)? Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson d) CCPs insistence on billing in Euros across europe (including non-euro countries) makes EVE very expensive for anyone in the UK. That the pound has been loosing value due to recent financial market turmoil is hardly CCPs fault. Whether they charge in EUR or Pound makes no difference - as they would charge pounds according to the exchange rate- same as your bank does when it exchanges your pounds to EUR. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson The Sterling-Euro exchange rate currently means CCP have effectively priced themselves out of the market for possibly many years to come. I very much doubt that CCP priced EVE out of the UK market for years to come - but you're certainly wrong about the "themselves" part. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson In the time it takes me to train one LV skill in EVE it is technically possible to level a char in WAR from level 1 to level 40 (level cap)! Which says very sorry things about WAR doesn't it? Everybody and his brother at max level within a few weeks? What's the point of having advancement at all? Just have all chars at same level from beginning and get rid of char development. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson So I am happily hanging up my boots for a while until EVE becomes affordable once again, Why for a while? CCP will be the same company who's business practices you so dislike and EVE will still not allow anybody to ever max out all skills ever. The pound/euro exchange will recover - but that's the only one of your grievances that will change. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson and until CCP have learned they cant just alienate vast swathes of the player base by making major changes with no warning or explanation. I don't remember a single change ever that came without warning or explanation. All changes were on sisi before release and people always discussed them at least weeks before they hit TQ. Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson Fly safe everyone! Thanks have fun --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.27 22:12:00 - [5966] Originally by: oilio Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums Why bother? Originally by: oilio I'm already ú30 per month better off as a result. I'll watch the forums to see if it looks like Eve (and CCP's attitude) improve, but I very much doubt it. I've seen many improvements during the last 5 years. If they don't look like improvements to you then EVE is simply not the right game for you. I hope you find a game that you like, Originally by: oilio We'll see what 2009 brings for Eve. My guess is that all the wonderful things scheduled for March aren't going to be anywhere near as wonderful as people are hoping (Faction Warfare anyone? Our recent "Industrial Expansion" (EXPANSION! HA!)) Insofar as Industry goes - agreed - not the biggest and best patch ever. But people have been crying for CCP to seriously improve lag for years- and now that they did some people just whine about something else and act like nothing happened. Originally by: oilio Anyway, good luck to all. Thanks - same to you. Originally by: oilio Just remember how much you're paying CCP, The equivalent of 2 movies. Originally by: oilio and what exactly you get for that money More than 4 hours of quality entertainment per month - so I'm fine with the bang-for-the-buck situation. I'm lucky to be within the Ç-zone - I can see how things might look less good from outside given recent exchange rate changes. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.12.27 22:35:00 - [5967] Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-) Reducing reply rate and wordage now. have fun --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.28 02:33:00 - [5968] Originally by: Glengrant Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- b) Apparent lack of action on the starbase exploit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That horse has been flogged beyond dead already. IMHO it's safe to assume that restoring old DBs and looking through mountains of data to follow money trails and verifying what's legit or not is a time-consuming activity. Yet the update we received was when? 19th December? It may take a long time to wade through the data, however to put out another update just to say they are still investigating would be welcomed. It's really just good customer service. Originally by: Glengrant Originally by: Oilio Well, that's my last character subscription that runs out in a couple of hours. Won't be able to post anymore, but will still read the forums Why bother? Oh come on now Glengrant. You've been doing such a good job in your arguments up until this point. There's a variety of reasons why someone may 'bother' with reading the forums after they leave. Finding out how this and the starbase exploit all plays out are just one two of them. Originally by: Squirrrel Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson I guess people who pay for something don't like being lied to or patronised as if they were mindless children. Nobody likes that. But don't tell me that you really think CCP is a big offender in this regard. Almost every ad I see on TV or in cinemas is an insult. That washing powder is really making my clothes whiter or more colorful and smell that much better than any other detergent before? Food never looks as tasty as on the cover. That's a totally different argument. In that sense, it's just like the EvE teasers/trailers, that are not really a true reflection of the game. Unsubbed training was not an advertisment to me. Sure it may have indirectly been to some other people drawn to the game, however once they bought into it and it did what it said it would - it's a feature. Are they a big offender in my opinion. Yes. They pretty much have been on a few occasions. Originally by: Squirrrel Originally by: Gotrek Gurnisson The big deal is that they didn't just call it like it was from the beginning. I agree with the latter part - but still don't get what the big deal is. Also I'm convinced that this thread would still be here regardless of what they said. OTOH nobody would think anything is wrong or unusual if GT never worked from the beginning. It was there for years - then they shut it down. The reasons given don't really make a difference. It's just something to cling to for lack of better arguments. Er... eh? You've totally lost me there. Yes, this thread would likely be here regardless of what they said; you're right no one would think it was wrong or unusual if it never worked from the beginning; yes the reasons they give do make a difference. They make a difference, in that, to be honest, I personally wouldn't have posted much in this thread if the lies hadn't appeared. That really ****ed me off. Yet, even if the lies hadn't been told, the arguments in this thread would still have a degree of validity, yet I dont't think as strong. It's really not 'something to cling to for lack of better arguments' - It IS the argument!
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.28 02:58:00 - [5969] Originally by: Glengrant A company get bigger it gets a dedicated marketing department - and they just can't help themselves. They need to try to spin everything in the best sounding way they can come up with. I believe I just have more realistic expectations what the baseline is here. I judge companies not on some ideal everybody fells short of - but a reasonable standard that some can manage to exceed, while others fail even that. Perhaps CCP in the end is not much better than usual - but I don't see how they are worse than typical marketing bla bla. I believe you're perhaps more blindly optomsitic without wishing to be offensive Glengrant. Either that, or you've perhaps not come across the poor quality customer service many of us have; or possibly don't have many other MMO's to weigh it up against as a package... I don't know which it is. CCP have an uncanny knack of making me think "Oh, why did they do that?" at nearly every turn in recent years when dealing publicly with things. Originally by: Glengrant It's an MMOG. I dislike it when people several accounts to fill all roles (capital + cyno, miner + hauler, tackler + damage) instead of having mates to complement with. I love the way that most people tend to perceive MMO's as being compulsary team games. Appearing in the same universe as other avatars of other real people does not mean you should team up with people at all. Back to the WAR reference you made in an earlier post about what it says about those games that you can technically level so fast... well, in EvE you can't. End of story. You can't power level or meta game your way to being a jack of all trades, master of them too and try your hand at everything. Well, not unless you use the ISK you generate to purchase a character or 4, which is one of CCP's golden decisions. Everyone tends to recommend that new players sort out their learning skills first too, which a lot of new players will follow... what does THAT say about EvE that if they think they want to stick around for a while in the game; some are bored before they see much of the game? The skills system used to be a feature. Many people loved it. Now it's become more of a chore, a bore and tool to fleece money more out of people with. It's not at all because I fell out of love with the game that I appear bitter - It's the fact that I've come to feel more like a cash cow and an unpaid game-tester than a valued customer.
Squirrrel Gallente Squirrrel Industries	Posted - 2008.12.28 03:02:00 - [5970] Originally by: Glengrant Yes - I wrote too much in this thread. :-) Reducing reply rate and wordage now. have fun Oh and happy holidays.

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