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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Zabaticus
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:04:00 -
[1111]
I've been reading this blog with interest and have posted my agreement with the removal of this feature a couple of times. I am struck by the people that say they are the player base and CCP better listen to them. These couple of hundred that have posted and reposted are not the player base. They are whiners that are upset because they can't game "The Game" anymore. Tough - leave. The tens of thousands of players that don't use this gambit will be glad to see you go. They are the real "Player Base" that CCP is supporting.
Zabaticus
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Triksterism
Gallente
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services
United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1112]
 Originally by: Elisa Day
I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
I have a ticker. >:(
Most people are afraid to post with their mains for some odd reason. One of my friends simply can't post with his main as it is currently ghosting (5 days left, grats to him).
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Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Megumi Yumiko
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1113]
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription <that is a must to stay in line with the rest of the chareters
2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak <its not a leak it was something the advertsided about
3. Players now have to pay a subscription for characters to have them progress <wil hurt players there wallet and bief ccp's up
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Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1114]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Yes. The guide describes the way things are. It does not say anything about whether or not that was an accident.
I defy you to find another "accident" listed in the player guide. With your logic, this surely can't be the one and only?
What about... User interface? Maybe they should put something in the guide about how the user interface will jump around? Of course it's not intended for the UI to act as such, but it is an accurate representation of what is happening.
Or maybe... Missile kiting? I think the guide should describe that ships going fast enough will never be hit by missiles. Not that CCP intended it to work this way, but it's how the game works now, right?
Or am I missing the point? Are you simply saying "they can claim it's a bug now without any warning simply because they're CCP?" I like what another poster said before: "How long until training skills while offline is considered a 'bug?"
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(CCP Inconsistency) |
Ms Pussycat
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:05:00 -
[1115]
Originally by: algorythm
For those quitting game, please contract your items to algorythm, direct isk transfers are also welcome, thank you
Can't you just ask someone in ccp to spawn items for you? Its easier and you get to choose the items!
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chiisai sakana
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[1116]
Originally by: Elisa Day
I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
maybe it was the way they informed us about it
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doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[1117]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Mecinia Lua
With the economic collapse in Iceland I feel folks are being kinda harsh.
Skill training is part of the game. No other game allows you to train while not paying a subscription. The fact EVE allowed it so long was because it most likely wasn't hurting their bottom line.
Now things are different in Iceland. They gotta look at where they can cut and trim so that they can remain in business and keep giving us the game we've all enjoyed for so long.
I had to give up my other account in 2007 because I had personal financial problems. So I understand how folks feel, in fact I"m not sure my card will be renewed this December so I'm not sure how I'll pay for EVE next year if they don't renew it.
I know others have hit hard times too.
Still I don't rail against CCP for doing what they can to trim cost and keep themselves in business.
Meci
That's absolutely fine with 90% of the people here if they would TELL US THE TRUTH instead of making something that was always bragged about by TomB and Ovuer back in the day suddenly a bug.
im far from a CCP fanboi, theyve ****** me off no end with some of their changes, but how are they lying? Last time it was talked about they said it wasnt an intentional feature right?
theyve also told you... its a business move
what more do you need?
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doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:07:00 -
[1118]
Originally by: chiisai sakana
Originally by: Elisa Day
I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
maybe it was the way they informed us about it
last time the sneaked it into the patch notes. that was better?
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Hayleine
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:08:00 -
[1119]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Morgon Borga
You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to remove all references to the "bug" as an intended feature before posting this garbage.
For example?
the example you seek, is from the eve-online new player guide, > skills - paragraph #3
"Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though)." CCP's "bug" excuse is a pile of bovine excrement.
to Quote CCP "capsuleers who actively put their time and energy into working on their characters will no longer be unfairly affected by those few who have not."
So, is CCP Implying that MORE people complained about other people "Ghost training" than are currently complaining about NOT being able to do it? Not possible!
the possibility of me resurrecting that 3rd account I had, has been greatly diminished. -1
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:08:00 -
[1120]
I don't really have a problem with this change as it seemed odd to me that people could gain advantage in Eve without paying for it (don't tell me ghost-training high-rank skills that open up new ship classes/weapons/battlefield prowess don't confer advantage to players--- you'd be lying through your teeth).
However, as usual CCP has handled the PR aspect with all the grace of an angry rhinoceros in a fine china shop.
Seriously CCP... put more thought into how you present significant changes/announcements. Your truly stupid in your approach; the phrase "'Chimp with Downs' stupid" springs handily to mind.
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INF Wonderwoman
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1121]
Originally by: Zabaticus
I've been reading this blog with interest and have posted my agreement with the removal of this feature a couple of times. I am struck by the people that say they are the player base and CCP better listen to them. These couple of hundred that have posted and reposted are not the player base. They are whiners that are upset because they can't game "The Game" anymore. Tough - leave. The tens of thousands of players that don't use this gambit will be glad to see you go. They are the real "Player Base" that CCP is supporting.
Zabaticus
There have almost been 90 pages of post about people talking about this issue, with about 80% or more that are against it in less then a day. I agree there are many individuals(including myself) posting several different points, but there are still plenty of different people to make a good portion of the player base. Again note, it has not even been a full day yet, many more will voice there opinions.
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Sharingla
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1122]
Originally by: doofydoo
Originally by: chiisai sakana
Originally by: Elisa Day
I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
maybe it was the way they informed us about it
last time the sneaked it into the patch notes. that was better?
they just need someone to pull their head out of their "sun doens't shine here" place before they do these things.
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Velda Chulai
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1123]
How is CCP affected by iceland's crash? The vast majority of their money is made in Euros, US Dollars, and GBPounds, not in the Kr=na. Besides that, they have assets locked up in a US based office, and they own a huge RPG developer based in the United States.
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doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1124]
oh, anyone please contact me if you want to offload any alts cheap :)
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Juntar Solarwind
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:09:00 -
[1125]
Originally by: INF Wonderwoman
Originally by: Juntar Solarwind
I'm not saying its a country, just pointing out that you maybe willing to step aside and let this game go, but we as players have an option to discuss our opinions and actually have a chance, how ever small it maybe, to change there decision. So by all means, step aside, I will not.
I pay to keep my main and my alt active every month. How is that fair to me to get my money worth when you may let your accounts go inactive and get the same services I get, but for free. I will continue to pay my $30 a month (lil less actually since I buy in bulk) but CCP has made it balanced.
People keep complaining about "it's not the money, it's that they are sneaky bastards." but everyone who says that, says they can't afford to run x ammount of accounts anymore. Sounds like money issues to me.
lol... It's fair because you have the same option that I have to do so. No one told you you had to pay that month, you did because you wanted to play with both accounts. It would be unfair if I was given the option and you were not.
So you don't want to play on your second account, or can't afford it, or forgot to pay your bill, but think you should still be receiving the benefit of "offline progression". Hmm... let me not pay my light bill this month and see what happens next month. 
Does your light bill(electric company) allow you to do that? No, invalid argument to fairness point. You just went from talking about the fairness of this being implemented to talking about the reason behind keeping it... Anyway my reasons are simply.
1. Bring people back to the game
2. Allows people to have a RL
3. Makes it easier to run several accounts
4. Makes grinding long skills tolerable
5. Adds a unique "I don't feel like I HAVE to play the game to enjoy it" factor
Point 5 is the main reason I started EVE, with other mmo's you feel like you have to be there to get anything out of it. Eve not only with the offline, but the inactive account skill training made me comfortable with playing it on my own time.
Point 1 - Give the masses something for free so that they come back down the road with no penalties for not having been here.
Point 2 - What does having or not having a RL have to do with this game. I pay for 2 accounts, work 40+ hours a week, married, have kids... I play and have a RL. Should my game be free if I do or don't have a RL?
Point 3 - If you want 3 accounts and can't afford all 3, then you should just have 1.
Point 4 - Uhm.. grinding BS V, Carrier V, Dread V, etc is gonna take just as long paying or not paying... oops, with the next patch it actually will take longer if you don't pay.
Point 5 - More like "damn, I can't get those SP for free anymore."
I agree the offline progression is a plus.. you don't have to grind it out, but it's just being greedy that you can do it and expect to be able to do it while inactive.
Want to take time off and not play for a week or two or longer... no problem, your character continues to progress while you take the time off. But you should still have to pay for it.
I do agree that there could have been more of a warning or a better excuse than what was used, but come on... it does balance things out and all the whining really is about $$.
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Kell Braugh
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:11:00 -
[1126]
just wait for the surge in canceled subscriptions.
Just added one to start off your pile.
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EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:11:00 -
[1127]
Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 14/10/2008 07:12:51
Originally by: Triksterism
That is a bit BS. They didn't give a rat's ass until Iceland got all debt'ed up.
Iceland's economy is in trouble. We, however, pay for our Eve subscriptions in Dollars and Euros which have just skyrocketed in comparison to Iceland's currency. So the plummeting ISK makes our payments to CCP worth more, and more, and more.
What's you're doing is making the post hoc ergo propter hoc mistake. That is assuming that because thing 1 happens after thing 2 therefore thing 1 was caused by thing 2. It's also pretty silly to think that this decision is going to result in an immediate and significant cash infusion of the type needed to "fix" a catastrophic economic crash.
Much more likely that they did give a rat's ass for some time and just didn't mention it to you.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:11:00 -
[1128]
Originally by: doofydoo
oh, anyone please contact me if you want to offload any alts cheap :)
Hit me up in game if you're interested in an 18.75M SP alt getting ready for dread training. Perfect learnings, Nav skills are done.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente
When Darkness Falls
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:12:00 -
[1129]
Someone summed it up nicely in the sea of posts overnight.
CCP will see a massive amount of resubscriptions in the short term as characters affected by this log on to train skills. They will also see a massive influx of income from transfer fees between characters.
Clearly they need cash quickly and are counting on being able to recover from the lost accounts gradually over the next year.
Sore point is, if you'd come out with that first, you'd have more new subscriptions from people showing support. Now we just think you are money grubbing.
Let's see if you actually recover after this, I hope the short burst of income was really neccessary.
Yak
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Gig Malchura
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services
United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:12:00 -
[1130]
Originally by: Elisa Day
I don't remember this outrage the last time they said they were fixing this, what's changed now?
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers or 2. Goonswarm. What's up?
Look again sweetheart, your several hours and more than 2000 posts behind (counting locked thread)
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VLAD DRACU
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:13:00 -
[1131]
Originally by: Elisa Day
I'm also noticing that most people in this thread are 1. people with no tickers... What's up?
it might be just people who pay their sub, huh??
maybe are they inferior to those with tickers...
i luv wise guys
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Kryttos
Hard Corp
Carbide and Diamonds Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:13:00 -
[1132]
god lot of whiners on here. CCP is a business. They have to make money, the end. If you dont like it... move off the planet, because thats every business, everywhere.
I never used this feature, and never intended to.
Now all you whiners, take your wambulance and go to WoW, because they could always use more whiners.
Also as a side note.. is it bad that I only read the comments from the big alliances ( IE: BOB, Goons, etc )
[email protected] |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 -
[1133]
Quote:
Now I'm not saying that if me personally would be at the other end of this Dev Blog I wouldn't be annoyed by CCP's actions. We are gamers. We game the system. We figure out how to maximize our returns. There's no surprise that people have done this for the simple fact that it wasn't banned per se and also for the fact that it was possible. But recently we have seen a surge in this behavior in a way that we were essentially supporting and maintaining a large number of customers that weren't paying us regular subscriptions. That's not fair towards CCP as a service provider and it's not fair towards other players that pay a subscription but don't make use of this bug.
Ok, found were it is called a bug. But it is still pretty logic on CCP part. If the % of players doing this is high I don't see why CCP should subsidize training high level skills on alts for free.
Let's see the logic: I have several accounts and most of them have R&D alts. I never left them go inactive to train the skills as I dislike the idea, but for me it would be easy and rewarding to do so. Plenty of skills requiring 1 month of more to train and they would be still getting RP while unsuscribed too. From what I know there is a larger number (at least a whole corporation was build around that) of R&D alts created and used that way. I can easily see why a gaming company would stop that.
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Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar
Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 -
[1134]
Dear CCP
I have been watching this thread, reading and contemplating my response to this particular issue. Here are my thoughts, for all it's worth to you.
1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
You know this, we know this, and no amount of obfuscation can hide this FACT.
2. Someone decided to make an ill thought out post, calling an advertised feature a bug, and then calling everyone who used it an exploiter. Made spurious claims that this upset game balance somehow and the player base was bad for using it.
You can't deny this "senior producer" has about as much PR skill as a rabid skunk, and REALLY should be kept off the forums. The only accurate thing he posted was "CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things".
3. To compound your errors, you implied that inactive accounts caused issues in your database.
You know as well as I do that this is spurious. I create, run, edit, and modify MySQL databases daily, some of respectable size. If inactive accounts are causing an issue in the database, then the problem can be rectified by shutting down your game and writing a PROPER database to handle the code. Attempting to pass such claims off as a reason and expecting us to buy it is insulting to say the least.
4. The only issue you address was skill training on inactive accounts.
The blatant REFUSAL to address other issues of inactive accounts which are realistically greater such as research rewards, market sales etc leads me to believe that it's ok to activate a research alt, begin a research/rewards session, stop paying for this character for 5-6 months or more and come back RICH.
Between my g/f and I we have 4 accounts. I have never Ghost trained, nor ever considered using the "feature" you advertised. I enjoy playing my characters entirely too much to let them languish unplayed.
My g/f and I are seriously contemplating unsubscribing our accounts. Not because of the change, it seems perfectly reasonable to expect to pay to advance in the game. What is causing us to consider unsubscribing is your handling of this. Tbh it smacks entirely too much of a John Smedley screw-up from SOE. Especially in the handling of the announcement and the subsequent "clarifications" to the policy.
As stated above, this "Senior Producer" should not be allowed to post on the forums again until he has some much needed education in the effects of badly worded announcements and the negative PR it can engender.
At this time my g/f and I have not unsubscribed, but we are seriously considering it. How you choose to handle this, what PR spin your INTELLIGENT producers and devs manage to eventually place on this and how it's implemented (if at all), will determine if we remain playing EVE, or if we sadly close our accounts and seek out different pastures.
Just one piece of advice. Never underestimate the intelligence of your subscribers. Don't talk down to them and expect them to suck it up and enjoy being lied to and disrespected. You will find that treating them as the intelligent and reasonable people they are, can make things surprisingly easy on you.
Stormwind Bloodfeather
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Triksterism
Gallente
Frozen Corpse Inspection Services
United Federation of Capsuleers
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:14:00 -
[1135]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Triksterism
That is a bit BS. They didn't give a rat's ass until Iceland got all debt'ed up.
Iceland's economy is in trouble. We, however, pay for our Eve subscriptions in Dollars and Euros which have just skyrocketed in comparison to Iceland's currency. So the plummeting ISK makes our payments to CCP worth more, and more, and more.
What's you're doing is making the post hoc ergo propter hoc mistake. That is assuming that because thing 1 happens after thing 2 therefore thing 1 was caused by thing 2. It's also pretty silly to think that this decision is going to result in an immediate and significant cash infusion of the time needed to "fix" a catastrophic economic crash.
Much more likely that they did give a rat's ass for some time and just didn't mention it to you.
The CCP employees live in Iceland, it's quite relative. Not to mention the blog even stated this was a financial endeavor.
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Ghost Train & Snowflake |
Megumi Yumiko
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:15:00 -
[1136]
well some of us has a big real live and we can't spare hte moeny and we don't have time for it and we can't keep always online and we can't change skils always and ccp is ****ing poeple off <that's there job right?>
the point is that's just foolish there current plan or just do something like this
10 mil for 1 week of ghost traning or something like that.. comeon think about it!!!
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Ceratin
Omega Enterprises
0mega Factor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:15:00 -
[1137]
Disabling ghost training.. bad call ccp
First off.. the reason your noticing peoples alt accounts arent being paid for is mainly because GTC prices have gone through the roof.
I used to pay 300mil for 90days, now it costs nearly double that for 60, i simply cant keep up 3 accounts at that price, neither can several of my corp mates.
Removing ghost training isnt going to do a whole lot apart from make me not want to bother reactiving my 3rd account which is currently offline since it isnt training atm anyway because i cant afford the gtc to bring it online to train skills.
Where do u get these silly ideas from? we've been telling you about this problem for months now but all that has been done is making the problem worse (no action on gtc price raise, 30/90day gtc removed, 60 day real price unreasonable, no cap on continuing rise of gtc>isk sales)
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All hail! Leader of the pod brigade.. |
doofydoo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1138]
Edited by: doofydoo on 14/10/2008 07:16:06
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: doofydoo
oh, anyone please contact me if you want to offload any alts cheap :)
Hit me up in game if you're interested in an 18.75M SP alt getting ready for dread training. Perfect learnings, Nav skills are done.
1 bil :)
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RaTTuS
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1139]
Edited by: RaTTuS on 14/10/2008 07:20:01
long needed change
as I keep my account active all the time ...
and will this also nurf the move pilot onto existing account and train on 2 characters thingy
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BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Kaplanelle
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:16:00 -
[1140]
Short notice to a radical change complete with disingenuous reasoning. CCP customer service still amazes me no end, at least Kieron's gone.
Think the power of 2 needs to be a permanent fixture if CCP wants to do this, and retroactively allow old accounts to use it. If they need cash to buy new blades, that's a good way to get a quick infusion. Most players have been patient about the pace of the games progress, but at the margin, there's just not enough interesting crap to do, especially for your more aged demographic.
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