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midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.15 11:57:00 - [61] lol, if they sell gtc cheap in iceland some prat will just buy em up, add a bit extra an resell them on ebay and make some moneys... -----------------------------------------------
Steini OFSI Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.10.15 11:58:00 - [62] Edited by: Steini OFSI on 15/10/2008 12:00:07 Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: Akita T Hey, look, you COULD have joined the EU already, but you didn't. You COULD have adopted the Euro, but you didn't. CCP could charge you in ISK instead of EUR, but it won't. End of story. Quoting an epic slam. As I recall, the Icelandic opinion was 'lol our economy is so awesome, we don't need the EU' I'd bet good money that the Icelandic attitude towards the EU has changed drastically recently. Fail fail fail. Alot of negative things have been said about Iceland recently, but I'd like to point out that we are not the only ones having problems, however our problems are more severe because the banks were allowed to grow beyond what our low population could support. Many banks and financial institutions are collapsing like rows of dominos, however the effect is not as severe because they only count as a portion of the national revenue/expense. When we joined european economic union (EEU? I get lost in these because of the different shortcuts, the Icelandic one beeing ESB), we allowed free flow of workforce and the ability to create stations of your own corporation in other countries. Icelandic bankers/chairmen/major stockholders, basicly rich people with many porches not the average student/mechanic/doctor whatever part of the society who do a decent job and earnest living (although some middleclassers did buy stocks but never in proportion to have anything to say about the matter), saw an opportunity to increase their companies worth by opening companies abroad. Ofcourse one should've realised that their base of opperation had grown out of proportion of what our government could support if a crisis would/should happen. And actually people probably knew and some of the government officials knew, amd they should've intervened long ago and made rules about financial corporation opperation but sadly our goverment sucks and the people are left to pay for their inability and ****idness (apparantly re-tard is filtered out although the original meaning being tard=slow?), sadly the goverment minority sucks as much so offering us advice to vote differently won't help. And on political notice, we're not the only ones suffering from bad leaders, I'd like to point out that Gordon Brown fell our only standing bank by abusing laws, only trying to save his pathetic political career, thus utterly made it impossible for us to recover or slow the fall of the Krona and allow us to recover, so we could be better able to fulfill our commitments that law abides us to do. And that's not effecting only us but also people in Britain who now suffer for his stupidity. Joining the EU might have made things better, I don't know, but one does not say "hey let's join the EU, get this awesome currency, and not give anything back instead". We want to be indipendent, we want to be in charge of our own fate (** YOU GORDON BROWN) as much as 300k people can, and we want to be able to do anything. Without this mindset EVE would not exist. Do I feel like we should be allowed to pay in Kr=nas, yes I do. CCP was originally made by us, supported by Icelandic companies, tested by Icelanders and is still played mostly by Icelanders if we compare it to national size. ------- I love myself
Jian Gi Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:00:00 - [63] A lot of valid points but if the following was already brought up, I missed it. The assumption that CCP is an Icelandic company and hence should charge in real ISK is wrong I am afraid. I suppose it is true that CCP is actually making money of this crisis since their income remains constant, assuming that the vast majority of paying customers are eu/us, but their costs have gone down, since they pay their employees in real ISK. The problem is this is that people forget that CCP pays I huge amount of money for IT, bandwidth etc. And these costs are unfortunately not ISK based. So wether they benefited from Iceland's troubles or not has to do with the ratio of their costs in real ISK/(euE or us$)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:03:00 - [64] Originally by: Steini OFSI Do I feel like we should be allowed to pay in Kr=nas, yes I do. CCP was originally made by us, supported by Icelandic companies, tested by Icelanders and is still played mostly by Icelanders if we compare it to national size. Not so sure about that... How many Icelandic players do you think there are ? You need over 300 to top the list Ok, you MAY top the list, but I'm not 100% sure _ VOTE YES TO SKILL QUEUE NOW !!! \|\| Mission reward revamp \|\| better nanofix
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:05:00 - [65] Originally by: Euriti Edited by: Euriti on 14/10/2008 17:37:58 I'll simplify this for the people who can't grasp it. The islandic currency (Krone) has collapsed and lots most of it's value. Icelandic people have to pay for EVE in euro but get paid in kroner, which means that their cost for playing eve has doubled or tripled compared to before. Enabling them to pay in their own currency will mean that they, relatively to their salary, pay the same as before. Also to the people saying that they want to pay in their currency too, there's a difference, CCP are from iceland and, afaik, pay people in ISK. Yes, some of us get it but that means CCP will be paying for the fact that the Icelandic economy is collapsing. How can that be fair? It's not CCP's fault that the Krona is falling. If anything CCP has been helping keep the currency afloat by drawing in foreign currency. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Dr Paithos Minmatar Republic Deep Space Institute	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:10:00 - [66] Edited by: Dr Paithos on 15/10/2008 12:11:56 Amazing the sense of entitlement Icelanders have. You want the world to give you whatever you want without ever giving anything back. The Icelandic goverment told the UK it wasn't going to honour its committment to foreign savers, only Icelandic savers, and then is horrified when the assets of the banks are siezed. Well, UK savers may have been foolish enough to believe in your amazing interest rates, but as a wise man said "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." Icelandic Official admitting foreign creditors will get nothing And then you have the affront to call our politicians liars, while screaming to the world to bail you out...
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:10:00 - [67] Originally by: Somal Thunder Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 14/10/2008 17:52:55 A lot of thigs lately (the GTC change, the ghost training thing, to name but the two most notable recent changes) were made to INCREASE the revenue. You might as well ask for free accounts for people in Iceland out of "patriotism" or somesuch. It's always to increase revenue, but exploiting an entire nation of EVE-Players hardly seems fair! They aren't exploiting you. They are just not (at the moment) helping you out. To exploit someone they have to actively choose to do something new and different. They aren't. They continue to charge you the same fee that they have for many months. The fact that your local currency is losing it's value is not in any way, shape or form CCP's responsibility. As soon as they do that for one local currency they risk being legally required to do it for all currencies. I realise that the Icelandic Krona is in an extreme situation at the moment but you are asking CCP to violate good business sense. I'm sure they share your pain but they didn't cause the problem and shouldn't be held liable. Nor should you expect them to compensate you for something outside of their control. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:25:00 - [68] Originally by: Carthas Kei CCP does not even respond to topics like this. Which only proves a point. Yes. It shows good business sense. You have no right to any company information and CCP cannot trust you to keep your mouth shut if you did get it. Ergo:As with any company they are doing the sensible thing and declining to comment. This is a problem with MMORPGs. The players often develop a sense of family, a sense that they are somehow at the same level as the company providing the service and have the right to interfere with it. That's good in a sense because it encourages a loyal fanbase but it's bad because it's a relationship that cannot ever exist. No company in the world can expose its internal affairs to the public in that way. It would be a disaster. We are not one, large family. We pay our subscription and that gives us access to their server. That's it. You have no right to expect anything more from them and they would be foolish to offer it. Especially in times like these. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Steini OFSI Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.10.15 12:29:00 - [69] Edited by: Steini OFSI on 15/10/2008 12:33:45 Originally by: Dr Paithos Edited by: Dr Paithos on 15/10/2008 12:11:56 Amazing the sense of entitlement Icelanders have. You want the world to give you whatever you want without ever giving anything back. The Icelandic goverment told the UK it wasn't going to honour its committment to foreign savers, only Icelandic savers, and then is horrified when the assets of the banks are siezed. Well, UK savers may have been foolish enough to believe in your amazing interest rates, but as a wise man said "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." Icelandic Official admitting foreign creditors will get nothing And then you have the affront to call our politicians liars, while screaming to the world to bail you out... What Davf= Oddson said is stupid, he is forgetting that he is no longer the PM or has the rights to say stuff like that. We are bound to honor legal agreements of 20K euro insurance per persons account for any bank of our nationality operating inside the EEU. Other investors, loaners were in the game to profit and thus needs to accept the risk that comes with that, the integrity of normal account holders and normal savers needs to be saved and it has been and is our intention to try to keep that agreement, that cannot be done with worthless currency or the instability that is going on now, political solutions and agreements need to be made, not the misuse of laws that were specifically made to stop terrorism. We have more than 300 players.. ------- I love myself
Carthas Kei	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:49:00 - [70] Edited by: Carthas Kei on 15/10/2008 13:49:24 Originally by: Vaal Erit Originally by: Akita T Hey, look, you COULD have joined the EU already, but you didn't. You COULD have adopted the Euro, but you didn't. CCP could charge you in ISK instead of EUR, but it won't. End of story. Quoting an epic slam. As I recall, the Icelandic opinion was 'lol our economy is so awesome, we don't need the EU' I'd bet good money that the Icelandic attitude towards the EU has changed drastically recently. Fail fail fail. Your so cool. Do you kick the handicapped and dance on graves as well? Guess you are a politician, their only skill these days seem to be to gloat.
Fresh Prince Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:52:00 - [71] Originally by: Na'Thuul Edited by: Na''Thuul on 14/10/2008 18:19:42 Edited by: Na''Thuul on 14/10/2008 18:18:43 Originally by: Somal Thunder Originally by: Na'Thuul Iceland should start talking to the Norwegian government about coming back home. Most Icelanders are of Norwegian descent anyways =) We has oil and monies! Don't forget the Irish monks!! No but seriously, you guys should've helped us when we sent out our economical "S.O.S." This must prove that Russians are better than Norwegians in some way. Originally by: Quanteeri Icelanders should be able to pay at the CCP office. Agreed! Actually it just shows Russia has a hidden agenda. Don't think for a second Putin helps anyone out of charity. Anyways, we ARE helping. Your central bank just got 200 million euros from us, with the option to get another 300 million at any time if needed A good gesture but around 1/20th of what is needed. I agree though that my inept government should get off its fat stupid ass and talk to someone else then the criminal IMF and K.G.B Russia. Trust me, Icelanders are more afraid of their own politicians/vetenarians then they are of Russia and the IMF.
Fresh Prince Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.15 13:54:00 - [72] Originally by: Na'Thuul Well, just to clarify, our government said from they start they were more than happy to help, but only if the Icelandic government asked for it. To quote "Iceland has to define what they need, and talk to us. I do not believe it will do any good if we were to come barging in with money telling the Icelanders what to do." Personally i would welcome it if Norway would come barging in with money and would not only tell the us what to do, but made sure we did it. If looked deep enough then Iceland is as corrupt as Somalia.
Fresh Prince Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.15 14:14:00 - [73] Originally by: Megan Maynard However, killing a good amount of the profit from a company is never a good practice, and neither is going into panic mode.quote] If you mean that giving a couple of percent of the player base chance to buy GTC¦s in their own currency they face a large decrease in profit...well then they are up shit creek. Frankly i have grown veary of CCP and its "no-answer is a good answer" policy.
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.15 14:23:00 - [74] Edited by: Piper Halliwell on 15/10/2008 14:24:06 I think it is kinda funny that all the people over the past months (since removal of the 30 and 90 day GTC's) from all over (Iceland included) where making fun of the crappy US dollar and now, all of the sudden, your Krona falls and everyone is supposed to hold hands and sing kumbaya for you? Tough **ing shit! I hope that the Euro follows suit. It is called karma, ain't it a *? edited: typographical errors and more ing and ***es added -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
Somal Thunder Intergalactic Peace Organization	Posted - 2008.10.15 15:11:00 - [75] Originally by: midge Mo'yb lol, if they sell gtc cheap in iceland some prat will just buy em up, add a bit extra an resell them on ebay and make some moneys... We're not talking about GTC, we're talking about game time. Game time that you buy over the internet using an Icelandic Visa or MasterCard. You can't re-sell your time if you've already added it to your account. I'd say this is something to be experimented with. I have, for a long time, predicted the collapse of our economy (although I do admit I didn't think it'd be so very sudden). Most of my money is in euros, but that doesn't change the fact that the money I make on a day-to-day basis is paid in Icelandic Kr=na, and I simply can't afford to pay for multiple accounts when it's like this. This is why I only have one account, and this is why I made a wise decision. Unfortunately, most of the people I know have multiple accounts, and some people start playing the game with the necessity of having two accounts. Maybe CCP could take a step towards humanity, and away from chauvinist capitalism, and let us subscribe in ISK, even though it'd only last for a trial period.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.15 15:50:00 - [76] Originally by: Somal Thunder Maybe CCP could take a step towards humanity, and away from chauvinist capitalism, and let us subscribe in ISK, even though it'd only last for a trial period. You still fail to give any reason at all why it would make sense for CCP to lower their prices (because that's what you're asking them to do) just because you can't afford to play anymore. What about all the other people elsewhere who are faced with an economic downturn? What about people who couldn't afford to play before? And why, in the Flying Spaghettimonster's name, would any company in these difficult times start to accept a currency which is plummeting like a rock?
Gridwalker Amarr Divine Power	Posted - 2008.10.15 15:51:00 - [77] The priorities of Icelanders are all screwed up. EVE is a game. It is a luxury. You should be worried about keeping your homes, heat for the winter, and providing food for yourself, instead of what is happening with your Internet spaceships. Besides, why can't you folks use EVE ISK instead of RL ISK to get your timecards? A week or so of ratting in 0.0 should be able to cover an account for what... a year? Maybe some of you folks should get together and figure out how to coordinate an Icelander EVE "bailout" of sorts and help yourselves, instead of demanding that other people help pay your way for you. -Grid
Kurt Gergard Caldari Custodes Mandati Imperii	Posted - 2008.10.15 16:42:00 - [78] Originally by: Col Carter Originally by: Somal Thunder By joining the EU we would have to surrender all our fish. If we can't export fish, the country can no longer import products, causing dramatic inflation. We would be worse set off (although GTC's would be peanuts for us) Completely incorrect. Have a look at Denmark's membership agreements, while on a base level there are a lot of things which cannot be deviated from as an EU member, there is a multitude of options available for countries to be a member and retain control over vital aspects of their society or economics. A briefing was provided to your cabinet on these matters two days ago, by now I would have thought some smart politicians and entrepreneurs to recognise the potential of EU membership without having to, err, give up the fish. Utter nonsense Polish fishermen strugle due to EU fishing limits so please stop the propaganda ================================================ "No plan has ever survived the contact with the enemy" von Moltke
Steini OFSI Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.10.15 16:52:00 - [79] Originally by: Gridwalker The priorities of Icelanders are all screwed up. EVE is a game. It is a luxury. You should be worried about keeping your homes, heat for the winter, and providing food for yourself, instead of what is happening with your Internet spaceships. We already got houses, heat and food sorted, we have fish and geothermal heat. ------- I love myself
Choken1	Posted - 2008.10.15 16:53:00 - [80] 1 point that as been said a few times. it may have been corrected already but. ccp pays in euros. not isk. also I would like to point out that almost half of the icelandic population voted for going into the EU. But the political parties decided to be greedy and tried to keep on going with a broken economic machine. So for you "I told you so" gloaters out there try to understand your only talking to about half of our population. I for one intend to move away from this corruption and hopefully I'll be able to pay for my eve accounts soon in real currency. CCP shouldn't have to offer us anything. It would be good if they did but I agree that we shouldn't get any special treatment just cause we kept the company afloat through its hardest time. Icelanders will just have to put their accounts on hold (I have already done this) and hope they can get a reasonable price at some point in the future.
Adam Slysphere	Posted - 2008.10.15 17:11:00 - [81] Pretty sure CCP contacts their billing out to a third party and don't really decide how the funds are paid and in what currency... In order to make you guys happy they'd have to completely change their billing procedures and/or find another company to handle their billing. That's a lot of added expense to the company to handle a, more than likely, small minority of players. Sorry your economy sucks, but this stuff happens ...
Gibmundur Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Resurgency	Posted - 2008.10.16 16:37:00 - [82] Kostar 60 daga gtc ekki 3500 kall ·tf b·=? Og ¦· segir a= 1500 kall sT sanngjart ver= ß mßnu=i? munar heilum 250 kalli ß mßnu=i 8) +g man ¦ß tf= a= eve kosta=i undir 1000 kalli ß shattered crystal. kibb
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.10.16 16:53:00 - [83] I donÆt mean to be an ass but last time I checked the value of the Krona was pretty bad, 1 ISK = 0.007 EURO according to Google Finance. So if we went by currency value, you want to play eve for a 1.05 EURO a month. From a companies point of view can you see how ridiculously unfeasible that is? -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Dr Axler The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:01:00 - [84] what i have been using as an advantage comes as a problem to you...never thought about it... i used to pay for my eve game time with a credit card. 15 euro a month. then i realized that they charge Americans 15 dollars. and that made no sense, dont they know that the dollar and euro ratio is not 1:1? well, i found it strange and bought a 30 dollar gametime card for 60 days and paid 20 euros for it which lowered my one month to 10 euros...hurray! on a side note, if anyone wants to know a funny story on the subject: CCP solved the problem of isk farmers very nicely. most mmos have a debate, should we ban them or not? they destroy the economy but they pay the monthly fee. eve does not ban them, but they do delete all the isk the players purchase from them. now this is a very good system as everyone keeps paying their subscriptions more and more. smart move from ccp, they tricked everybody. here is how you trick them back :) buy money from the isk farmers and then buy game time cards with the bought isk. that is the cheapest way to play eve. the only thing is you pour lads form island would have to get the farmers to charge you in your krona or you would have the same problem ;) although you dont really trick ccp, they still get the money from the game time card, the one who draws the short straw is the guy who sold the game time card as the isk he got for it will probably be deleted...oh well _________________________________________________ "nerf rock, paper is working as intended." - Scissors
Mhaerdirne Solveig Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:15:00 - [85] they should offer the krona rate only to those who show up in person at the office to pay for the account and have icelandic addresses :) Signature removed. Text is showing as "Signature no longer available" and filesize is well in excess of the allowed 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
Titus Vulso Amarr Minbari Research Institute	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:23:00 - [86] What about our poor Zimbabwean pod pilots?
Shard Merchant Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.16 17:35:00 - [87] You're essentially asking for them to put nationalism before money. Unfortunately for you, CCP probably consists of more non-Icelanders than Icelanders. The only way they'd do this is if the number of subscriptions in Iceland suddenly paying a fraction of what they were wouldn't hurt their bottom line. _______________________________________________ CCP CENSORSHIP ALERT: CAN YOU SPOT IT?
DaDutchDude Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.16 18:12:00 - [88] Edited by: DaDutchDude on 16/10/2008 18:15:26 Listen, I seriously feel for people who have been hit by this economic crisis, and I know Iceland has been hit hard. I hope your economy recovers and you work with all other countries to reform the international economic systems, and I know many countries around the world (including my own) will be supporting your economy with that goal. However, it sounds to me you're not just asking for a hand-out, you're demanding it, and that kinda **es me off. Many people around the world get hit by all sorts of adversities and have dealt with it, but you have the nerve to demand a hand-out because the company that produces this game is based in your country? And you get **ed off at CCP about your adversities? Look at your leaders for an explanation, and be angry at them, since they failed to realize the risky situation your economy has been in and/or act on it, while of course taking credit for the good years it has brought your economy. Be angry at the unregulated and unchecked greed of many people, not just of bank managers but also the people who took loans out they couldn't afford and who invested in risky investment products without really understanding them, expecting others like me to finally pick up the checks. I know I am and many others are too. On the flip side, be grateful to all CCP customers for pumping money in your economy through this game and to CCP for staying in Iceland despite this economic trouble. CCP is first and foremost a company that has to make money for its owners, be it private or public, and has no responsibility in this economic crisis. Without the tax revenue that is deposited by CCP in the Icelandic government bank accounts and the jobs they provide directly and indirectly to the Icelandic people, you'd be worse of. Don't expect me, other players or CCP owners to pick up the check for you wanting to play a game, which is a luxury really, and not something you are in any way or shape entitled to. Take responsibility for your own financial position and put blame where it is due, but don't expect others to come wipe your butt after you're done taking a dump: that's what being a grown-up is all about.
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.10.16 18:22:00 - [89] No. By your statements, you demand that CCP offer the game in your own curency. That, good sir, is bullshit! If they did that for you, then everyone else would complain that it's not in their own local currency. I'm Canadian and am forced to pay in USD. Get over it. I'm sorry your dollar has dropped in value, but if you really don't like it then do something about your own personal living conditions. Don't go demanding that companies change how they work just because things changed and affected you, not them. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Gibmundur Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Resurgency	Posted - 2008.10.16 18:57:00 - [90] Last time i checked(some time ago) ccp was owned by none other then the scumbag that used to own Landsbanki.(Yes i hate bankers) so i doubt very much ccp cares. kibb

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