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Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:16:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Bylok
Its not that one guy that does the fighting. Its as the previous post stated. Its just a guy sitting AFK 90% of the time feeding intel to other reds in system.
Let's play spot the logical inconsistencies!! I've even helped by bolding the relevant part. If he's feeding intel he's not AFK is he? And if he is AFK he's not feeding intel so in the end it doesn't affect you at all.
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Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:16:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Bylok
Its not that one guy that does the fighting. Its as the previous post stated. Its just a guy sitting AFK 90% of the time feeding intel to other reds in system.
Let's play spot the logical inconsistencies!! I've even helped by bolding the relevant part. If he's feeding intel he's not AFK is he? And if he is AFK he's not feeding intel so in the end it doesn't affect you at all.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:19:00 -
[63]
When I rat or plex in lowsec I have to constantly watch local, use the scanner to keep an eye out for probes or hostiles, and generally be alert every second.
In 0.0 the rewards are higher, MUCH higher...and you only rarely have to deal with having to watch your back, AND you can just jump to an adjacent system and do the same thing.
Speaking as a lowsec dweller: grow some balls and stop expecting the game to protect yourself for you.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:19:00 -
[64]
When I rat or plex in lowsec I have to constantly watch local, use the scanner to keep an eye out for probes or hostiles, and generally be alert every second.
In 0.0 the rewards are higher, MUCH higher...and you only rarely have to deal with having to watch your back, AND you can just jump to an adjacent system and do the same thing.
Speaking as a lowsec dweller: grow some balls and stop expecting the game to protect yourself for you.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:24:00 -
[65]
Originally by: xhardxcorex
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Counter: Ignore him.
Ignoring a ship shooting at you can be done, but is not advisable.
If it's shooting at you, it's no longer cloaked nor AFK.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente
Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: xhardxcorex
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Counter: Ignore him.
Ignoring a ship shooting at you can be done, but is not advisable.
If it's shooting at you, it's no longer cloaked nor AFK.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:34:00 -
[67]
there is no greifing in this game,
the op entire arguement is about cloakers greifing when this game is all about non consensual PVP and as such greifing doesnt really exist!!!!
if you dont like it stay in 1.0 in the station and talk to the new people forever (some are rather friendly)
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Ashla Chifis
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:41:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Ashla Chifis on 17/10/2008 00:41:35
No its about the fact that cloaking for days on end has no purpose other then griefing and there have been in fact cases of griefing in this game. Someone can in fact be AFK 90% of time and still act 10% of the time. What started out the thread was saying that there should be no skill that has no counter skill to it. The only reason to cloak for days is to grief via spying.
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Sensor Ghost
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:48:00 -
[69]
I'm sure I saw something about this in evemon, a skill or a module for detecting cloaked ships... I can't seem to see it now, so it's entirely possible that I mis-understood what was being said, or that I just dreamt the whole thing anyway...
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Simetriz
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:49:00 -
[70]
I TOTALLY AGREE |
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xhardxcorex
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Posted - 2008.10.17 01:02:00 -
[71]
Edited by: xhardxcorex on 17/10/2008 01:04:31
Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: xhardxcorex
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Counter: Ignore him.
Ignoring a ship shooting at you can be done, but is not advisable.
If it's shooting at you, it's no longer cloaked nor AFK.
Really? You're serious? Thank god you were here to explain that.
It's not like I was talking about someone sitting cloaked and AFK for hours and hours, then coming back (as in no longer AFK) and uncloaking and attacking someone. No, of course that's not what I was talking about.
You really nailed it. I was talking about how unfair it is that people can attack other players while cloaked. That EXACTLY what I was talking about. Its a good thing you were here to clear that up for everyone else. No one else seems to get what I was really talking about.
You're wrong about the AFK bit though. The tactics I'm talking about involve a highly complex macro, which requires no human presence and is therefore AFK.
I really don't know what I'd do without you here to clear things up. In fact, you're so good at it, why not grace someone else with your insight.
It's not about griefing. Griefing is a part of Eve. Its why I play Eve. Its about a situation where minimal force, effort, creativity and assets are used in an disproportional way.
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Taedrin
Gallente
Celestial Ascension
Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.17 01:16:00 -
[72]
People aren't scared of cloakers when they are AFK. They are scared of cloakers who might return from being AFK, while you think they are still AFK. That is the danger of cloakers. There is a similar danger with people docked up in stations, but in 0.0, stations can be bubbled. ANd nobody cares about low sec, I guess. And then again, you can confirm where people are if they are docked.
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ViolenTUK
Gallente
Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2008.10.17 02:16:00 -
[73]
I have argued this case to many times than I want to remember. There is nothing wrong with cloaking. There certainly seems to be a problem with how players deal with it.
The removal of "Ghost Training" |
NEUR0TIC CAT
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Posted - 2008.10.17 02:40:00 -
[74]
Originally by: StealthGerbils
Why not add probes to detect cloaked players.
Would that not completely eliminate the usefulness of a cloak altogether?
BTW noobs, a cloak ship cannot hurt you while he is cloaked
Hello kitty ----->
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:18:00 -
[75]
Originally by: xhardxcorex
It's not like I was talking about someone sitting cloaked and AFK for hours and hours, then coming back (as in no longer AFK) and uncloaking and attacking someone. No, of course that's not what I was talking about.
Well if he uncloaks and attacks, lucky you, there's a counter for that: Shoot him. (Or run away because you were aligned, scanning, paying attention, all that stuff...)
Seems to me what you're complaining about is that his cloaking prevents you from using local as an early warning safety system that lets you run for cover before anyone can possibly engage you. Well, as it turns out, that's not what local is for. In fact it kinda seems to me that his cloaking is the counter to your abuse of local.
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Lady Katrana
Wild Jokers
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:30:00 -
[76]
while we are at it lets nerf docking. a person can sit, perfectly safe, in a station docked and gather intel all day long about who is in a system. this is totally unbalanced, they get intel for no risk. there should be a counter for docking, like a probe that will undock someone if they have been afk for more than 15 minutes
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ghost st
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:40:00 -
[77]
The problem isnt really the cloak, its the amount of information a cloaked ship can get intel and be completely immune to any counters.
I dont believe that cloaking is the entire issue tho, just the amount of information that he can gater from 100% saftry, local will tell the amount of people in the system, and the directional scan can give shiptypes, the cloaker can also see cynoes, etc.
Cloakers that are there for the pew arent a problem, you can setup bait fairly easily, or just rat with combat fittings
But cloakers that are there just for the intel are 100% immune and can gather all the intel a non-cloaked ship can.
Personally i think that local should be on delayed mode, and that directional should be disabled for t1 cloakers.
T2 ships however shouldnt have these drawbacks, or the drawbacks should be greatly reduced.
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E Vile
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:40:00 -
[78]
To deal with the issue of people sitting in a system afk griefing locals, just group with someone, go rat and be a nice juicy piece of bait. Have your friend aligned or ready to warp to you. Beat the cloaker at his own trap.
I would rather CCP Remove local chat so we don't automaticlly see everyone in the system.
I always found that cheesy we can just tell whenever anyone jumps into the system no matter how far we are from that point.
Make peoeple use radar for seeing who is around.
THAT would make things MUCH more intresting without this big safety chat.
EVE is supposed to be hardcore, yet this hello kitty way to auto detect as soon as someone enters the chat channel.
As far as nerfing cloaks, I disagree. Cloaks are not a insta escape plan. It MAY get you out of trouble, but don't count on that being 100%
Cloaks are fine with their intended drawbacks.
Seems like the EVE community has developed into a bunch of whiners over the years. I havn't been on the forums awhile and all I see are cry nerf/cry about nerf threads.
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Piper Halliwell
Minmatar
Phantom Squad
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:34:00 -
[79]
0/10 TBH the ghost training whines were better. Try again with a better complaint.
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You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
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Lady Aja
Caldari
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:57:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Bylok
Edited by: Bylok on 16/10/2008 21:48:51
Cloaking currently is great for griefers. There should be a limit on the time duration. Use current game mechanics to limit the time cap use or something. I can see a cloak duration of say a hour or two but unlimited cloaking is dumb and only usefull to griefers when its for that long of a duration. There should be a counter skill perhaps let skilled probers at least have a chance at finding a cloaked ship. Either a counter skill or a limit for the duration/frequency of cloak I feel is needed
remember... what you want nerfed also works against you...
if ccp put a limit on how long you cloak say ten mins then a 10 min cool down before it can claok again. this WILL also apply to you oneday should you need a cloak.
if said pirate griever is in youre system in 0.0 do something about it.
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CHAOS100
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:59:00 -
[81]
rgr that! nerf incoming via overnight shipping from iceland!
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Sol Halcon
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.17 05:20:00 -
[82]
Originally by: E Vile
Seems like the EVE community has developed into a bunch of whiners over the years. I havn't been on the forums awhile and all I see are cry nerf/cry about nerf threads.
I hear ya bro..
This is most likely due to the spill over from World of Warcraft, Conan, etc... Where, when the whiners cry the devs jump.
Welcome to EVE....Lady mercy don't live here.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 05:39:00 -
[83]
Quote:
Its about a situation where minimal force, effort, creativity and assets are used in an disproportional way.
Protip: Through use of directional scanner, local, and common sense, you can make it nigh impossible for them to gank you. 0.0 is dangerous, deal with it.
Originally by: Catharacta
My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Vincenzo Delloro
Amarr
Lux et Veritas
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Posted - 2008.10.17 06:08:00 -
[84]
xhardxcorex: poorly named character or most poorly named character?
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.10.17 06:43:00 -
[85]
The counter to AFK cloaking is as mentioned the removal of local. Preferably with the introduction of a new set of intel tools which if you look really, really hard might tell you there is someone cloaked in the system.
It's not a public advertisement device, those are already in game and called cynosural fields. If it's cloaked you shouldn't know it's there, especially not for zero effort.
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DjLowballer
Amarr
FLASHTROOPER CORP
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Posted - 2008.10.17 06:53:00 -
[86]
Here is one way to look at it; If I am in a Covert ops in hostile territory cloaked yes I can feed intel and you really wont ever find me. AFK or not I am not mining and making isk /resources for my alliance, I am not fighting you and causing you to lose assets, and if my friends do come it is 1 less gun that is pointed at you.
Once I learned Covert Ops I spent hours practicing how to move about undetected, and many more hours were spent making safe nooks and learning systems. For all you know that neutral could be just someone bored exploring and learning.
But to the point, Intel saves the day. Any time we went out ratting or ice mining we sent scouts 1-2 systems out in all directions and brought security for the Op. So GG cloaker, you told everyone where we are. Unfortunately by the time you get there we will be gone.
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Eran Laude
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:01:00 -
[87]
Cloaks are fine and fun.
If you want to continue the debate, here's one of the best cloaking threads
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
Katsu Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:24:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Haradgrim
Learn to deal people; stay aligned, pay attention, fit your own cloak. All the counters are there if you want them....
As for people trying to probe cloakers.... if you aren't succeeding; your doing it wrong. Not to mention if there were no counter to being probed....well....
oh man.. this is exactly the arguement which was used with nanos.. there are counters..
THIS IS BULLSHIT. It isn't the most important fact that there are counters, but more how effective these counters are and even more important, how MANY counters there are. And ofc how widely this tactic is used in comparison to all other tactics in eve.
And also: if you can't probe down a cloaker you're doing it wrong? plz be so kind and enlighten me what ways there are to probe a cloaker.. oh wait.. NONE. 
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
MAIDS
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:41:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Faife
eve forums: trolls trolling trolls about being trolled.
/signed.
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CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
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Delichon
The First Foundation
SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.17 07:53:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki
And also: if you can't probe down a cloaker you're doing it wrong? plz be so kind and enlighten me what ways there are to probe a cloaker.. oh wait.. NONE.
Clue company called, but it wasn't for you.
Cloakers are fine - at least they die when they jump through the gates. Cov. ops and Rapiers are hard - but I have seen very efficient tactics on killing them.
But all in all - 0.0 is not a happy la-la land, you got to protect your territory. Unless the enemy got a whole AFK cloaking GANG in your system, basic precautions for a ratter will save your rear. If you don't know them - you don't deserve to have your Raven intact :)
All these cloaking whines make me want to buy myself a Piligrim :)
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All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE
A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
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