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Cloaking is out of hand

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Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:03:00 - [91] I vote to nerf afk cloaking by removing a ship that cloaks from local. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.10.17 08:10:00 - [92] Originally by: Merdaneth I vote to nerf afk cloaking by removing a ship that cloaks from local. CCP are reworking cloaking-scanning-local mechanics as far as I know. But I have a feeling that in the end CCP will either: 1) present us with new and exciting TIME GRIND that would give 100% immunity to cloaks. 2) goof it up and make it impossible to find someone in system, effectively removing belt/safespot-ganks altogether. 3) succeed in presenting us with new and exciting system, that would allow pilots to actively compete in hiding/searching for intel, making PVP more exciting by introducing additional strategic dimension - Information. Probability estimations: 1) 60% 2) 30% 3) 10% ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:10:00 - [93] Originally by: xhardxcorex Its psychological warfare without any sort of equal counter. It has the same counter as all forms of psychological warfare: train Ignore V (and Eyes In The Back Of Your Neck IV as an auxilliary support skill).
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:12:00 - [94] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Malcanis OK let's make it so that cloaked ships move at -75% speed, and can't target or activate modules, and can't lock until 15-30 seconds after uncloaking. Sounds a bit weak... Lets keep them from warping out too and it should be fair. Well that's a bit harsh, but yeah... might as well do the job properly. People will just have to adapt.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:14:00 - [95] How do you know they are there, if you can't see them? Headache
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.10.17 09:22:00 - [96] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki And I know the basics on how to rat in 0.0 with enemies in local, rest assured. And the guy I quoted wasn't talking about killing cloaker ships when jumping into a system. It's about the possibilty to probe cloaked ships in a system. You missed my point. You want to kill a cloaker - which is approaching the game from a wrong angle. I want to kill people in NPC corps - well, guess what, I have to sacrifice an un-reimbursable ship to do it and I still can't do it if they are docked. You should be approaching the game from how it affects you. You should be wanting SAFETY. And My point was - you can get a reasonable degree of safety cloaker or no-cloaker. Just follow the rules. Does a cloaked ship compromises this safety? Well - just as much as ship that has just jumped in from a nearby system, that you had no scout in. No difference. If you can't handle relative safety that is 0.0 - than tough luck and cry me a river. It is not cloaker's fault, it is yours. ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Ore 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:21:00 - [97] Cloaking is absolutely fine. In every way. The modules fitted to ships designed not to carry them, have MASSIVE penalties. Those few ships that do carry them are very niche in respect to their abilities, especially stealth bombers. and like the guy above me said, it is no worse really in terms of safety than having someone jump into the system anyway. All of the arguments about AFK intelligence gathering and stuff are moot. You aren't AFK if the ship is being used in an hostile way, thus what is the problem? If they are AFK then they are no threat. The stealthbomber pilot who sits outside your station or belt waiting to pop your haulers and tech II frigs often has to sit there for HOURS watching and waiting for the right moment. Kudos to him for being patient and cunning. Its a very clever way of playing eve and offers a bit of diversity to the blobs and the direct head to head gang wars. Its one of the more inventive ways of doing pvp. The guy who probes out the low sec mission in his cloaky cloaky and then brings his BS into the mission to kill the missioner? Brilliant. In the grand scheme of things only a very small % of people do it. I've been killed lots by people who do that, and every time I think its great. The real issue is the ratters who use the cloak in 0.0 to protect themselves. Well, I would agree that in terms of my ethical view its a bit wrong. But really, to be honest, most people only fit a cloak when they are in an area that is very hostile or there is a big risk of runnning into someone, but they want to take the advantage of the money in 0.0. Its a protective tool for them, and like a Warp stab, nerfs considerably the ships ability to fight. Cloaking devices are suppose to be like this. On a bit of a geek note, in Startrek, its next to impossible to locate ships with cloaking devices. Considering that this modules in eve is based mostly on that sci fi series, this is how they should work. And like in that series, when we de cloak, we are vulnerable for a few moments. I have been decloaked so many times by good pilots. And its good to see people are clever enough to counter them. In the grand scheme of things, 5 pilots jumping into a system with recons and hacs causing havoc is worse than the single guy cloaked not doing anything or the bomber sitting at your ratting belt watching you carebear. And its one of the last remaining ways to solo pvp in this game. Solo, IMHO there is no more interesting and adrenaline way of fighting people in this game. Leave them as they are...or buff them so the bomber can use the covert ops cloak! :) The ships are made of paper too. Stop complaining about something that is cool in this game. They aren't really THAT deadly. I'd rather fight a raven with a cloaking device than one without. I'd rather fight a stealth bomber or a covert ops than a interceptor. I'd rather fight a hac or commandship with a cloak than without. My odds of surviving a much greater if they fit them. All it is is a state of mind, that someone might be watching you. But don't we all have that once we go lower than 0.5?
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:29:00 - [98] afk or not afk you dont seem to get the point cloakers have all the initiative I guess we understand the meaning of "COUNTER" in totaly different ways "beeing aligned or not mining or whatever" isnt a counter, it`s a precaution a "counter" would presume the ability to actively seek/find/kill the target, with at least some probability of success So no, NOS dosnt counter nanos it just makes them go away, no , aligned does not counter cloakers it just makes them not attack you or gives you a good chanche to escape Why would everyone argue that siting 100% safe anywhere in space is balanced? So what if he`s AFK or not, i could care less really, it`s the fact that you cant do shit about it one way or another UNLESS he decides to act . For all purposes, if he doesnt act he`s AFK from where i`m siting, i dont care if he`s browsing forums or out having a beer So you`re basicaly saying that in order to be safe in space one must allways take some sort of action (align, stay in gang, scout, scan)...unless one is cloaked?? So why dont you take your own advice a little, i mean sure if the worthless carebears should ALLWAYS do something while in space in order to stay safe, the l33t PvP`ers should do the same? IMHO there needs to be some sort of mechanic that requires permanent action while cloaked or otherwise cloack vanishes (dunno, like clicking sumthing every other minute) ,+ a workable way to pinpoint cloaked ships
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Ore 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:38:00 - [99] Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 17/10/2008 10:42:46 Originally by: Xeronn UNLESS he decides to act . For all purposes, if he doesnt act he`s AFK from where i`m sitting, i dont care if he`s browsing forums or out having a beer Whilst I agree with you about the fact that you CAN'T locate him. If he doesn't act then there is no problem. Because he's not doing anything. Thus you have nothing to worry about. And if he does act, he is more vulnerable than he normally would be, because he's inhibited by the cloaking device. Plus to attack you he has to warp uncloaked. Which means you spot him on the overview. It amazes me though how many people when mining don't even look at the overview in low sec or 0.0. When the neutral/hostile pilot warps in at 70km, and then disappears from view, you have enough time to leave. Or even if he decloaked, you still have time to run. It borks the ships. I hate fighting with a cloak, unless its a bomber. That locking delay tends to mean I can never catch anything anyway so I don't bother anymore. Just be a bit more organised in terms of security. If you don't have good enough protection to kill 1 guy.... then isn't it a case of doing a risky activity in eve online, of which we all know generally results explosions and stuff. I liken such ships to Nuclear subs. To be honest, the same problem exists....but you can't nerf subs. People just have to adapt. The whole point of the cloak is you can't find the ship.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:46:00 - [100] My usual response to my allies if there is a cloaker in system is always the same. Turn around and kick the shit out of it when it uncloaks. If it's a Mothership, then we run like ***gots. Also.

Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:47:00 - [101] I sense a possible new massive whine 'NURF!!!1' topic..
Elis Verone Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:49:00 - [102] well alot to be said about cloakers BUT i shall only say this.,. make it only work for the ships it is intended too... covert ops etc. and maybe haulers... t2 kind.. cloaking is not cool on bs and the likes...
Dr Sheepbringer	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:50:00 - [103] Either a timer, or a scanner that can pick up cloakers for example in a >REALLY REALLY long timeframe. For example if you really want to find a cloaker, you need to search for a 1-2h. Pretty much depends on which is lighter to the servers.
Iva Soreass Perkone	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:55:00 - [104] Cloaking is the new Nano, true story. Quick all the WoWhiners whine now and it will be nerf'd soon.
Pan Crastus Anti-Metagaming League	Posted - 2008.10.17 10:59:00 - [105] * Normal ships should simply not be able to move while cloaked * Nanotitans and Doomsday activations 20 seconds before DT are worse problems than cloakers... How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:01:00 - [106] anti-cloak bomb with a diameter of 30km... ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:04:00 - [107] 2/10 Points for even bothering. Keep working on those trolls! Frigate racing is fast and fun!
Tippia Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:06:00 - [108] Originally by: Xeronn cloakers have all the initiative ...yes, aaaall the initiative (as soon as the cloaking delay has run out).
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:10:00 - [109] The moment cloaks get nerfed, people that rat with cloaks fitted will simply logout again. Will you then ask CCP to remove logging off from game?
RedSplat	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:26:00 - [110] I post in a 'whats going to be nerfed next' thread, i say i fear the Carebear Brigade will try and get cloakers screwed. Lo and behold whats this is see?

Murk Loar Caldari Polytope	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:27:00 - [111] So....tl;dr One cloaking red (who may or may not be afk,and may or may not be feeding intel) has effectively shut down 'your' system to the point you have to dock up/hide and run to the forums about it? Sounds like Covert tactics working as intended. 1 man > Your entire defence force.
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:32:00 - [112] Wanna sort the problem of cloakers in your home systems?.... il tell you how: Be organized. SAVE NANO!!!!!!....only needing f1-f8 to kill is not a skilled style of combat.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:36:00 - [113] Originally by: Mioelnir The moment cloaks get nerfed, people that rat with cloaks fitted will simply logout again. Will you then ask CCP to remove logging off from game? Nerf ctrl + q!! Nerf nerf!! Frigate racing is fast and fun!
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.17 11:44:00 - [114] Edited by: Murina on 17/10/2008 11:44:45 Originally by: Xeronn Why would everyone argue that sitting 100% safe anywhere in space is balanced? While he is cloaked HE is 100% safe from you and YOU are 100% safe from him..............BALANCE For him to do anything to you he must uncloak thus allowing you to dmg him and him to dmg you while you cannot choose when to engage but suffer from no penalties at all............BALANCE He gets to decide when to attack but if he does attack he gets penalties to his lock time and a delay before he can even start locking you..........BALANCE
Hades In'aMiniskirt 30 ounces	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:08:00 - [115] Originally by: Merdaneth I vote to nerf afk cloaking by removing a ship that cloaks from local. I love this, it has many merits Now you see me.....now you don't, and wont even know I am in system about to decloak 10 klm's off your port and HURT you bad
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:18:00 - [116] OMG there's a cloaking griefer in system asfsafasfasf I'll go to forums!
IonKnight	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:23:00 - [117] whining little ***es all of you. Go play hello kitty island. Also if u don't know how to counter a cloaker ur an idiot FULL STOP!. Now if u have a brain a cloaker is no problem cause either hes giving intel (which means he has to see u therefore limiting ur area u have to find him in). If hes afk it is actually better so what hes there for 4 hours waiting im waiting just outside the system waiting for the noob to jump to the next system. So please all you whining ***es that say cloakers need a counter should get a life. E.g. Whats the point in cloaking if u can be found just as quick by a recon ship when ur cloaked then when ur not. Simply put Cloaking should make u invisible and very very hard to find thats the point otherwise there is no point
Fresky Smooovh The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:35:00 - [118] Its amazing how many people can completely miss the point of what the OP is trying to say. A red in your system will always make you more cautious about what you do,you dont know if he is AFK or has friends that are waiting for him to call them in. So it is psychological warfare, great, no problem, but I do want to have an option of doing something to drive him away from the system so that I can carry on with whatever I want to do. Whether he is AFK or not is irrelevant because I have no way to tell so I have to assume that he is not AFK and behave accordingly. He on the other hand is completely free to go make a sandwich in the knowledge that there is nothing i can do. So CCP give me a way to find him, make it as complicated, skill intensive, time intensive as you like but give me an option to find him.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:47:00 - [119] Originally by: Fresky Smooovh A red in your system will always make you more cautious about what you do,you dont know if he is AFK or has friends that are waiting for him to call them in. If he is a scout for a larger gang then its your fault for not having your own scouts and not seeing his gang approaching. If he is not a scout you should still have yours out checking your pipe/choke point anyway and be in a gang. Lets face it you can get more bonuses and be more productive in one anyway and you also can react to a problems faster. Organization is not a naughty word and it will make afk cloakers useless and give you a heads up and the ability to kill a hostile gang if he is not afk but a scout.
Jack Gilligan THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.17 12:59:00 - [120] I've always thought that the best solution that would still allow cloaks to be used reasonably by non purpose built stealth ships would be to have them use capacitor on non stealth ships, so that they can have a maximum duration of 5-10 minutes at most. Furthermore, non stealth ships should have a lengthy reactivation delay, I'd like to see the cloak take the same amount of time to "recalibrate" that it was active. So if you run the cloak for 5 minutes you can't cloak again for that long. After all, non covert ops, recons, or black ops ships weren't built to handle the thing and putting a cloak on ships that aren't amounts to jury-rigging. 5-10 minutes of cloak is plenty of time to slowboat to a gate cloaked, or to hide at a safespot in an escape attempt, but this stops the tactic of cloaking Ravens or something forever, which is commonly used by isk farmers to avoid gangs hunting them. My opinions are my own and do not necessarily represent those of my corp or alliance.



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