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Cloaking is out of hand

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Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:33:00 - [31] Originally by: MyOwnSling How do I grief you if you can't see me I have no idea __________ Originally by: Tortun Nahme nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Gonada cloaking does indeed need a counter. those that say its fine are crazy, plain and simple. not the least is the intell gathering methods used by alliances in regars to this. having countless alts, trial accounts strewn across 0.0 or in empire gathering enemy movements without recourse is silly at best. trial accounts cannot train the skills needed. I also do not want my stealth bomber nerfed because it intimidates you. Man I realy have the urge to let loose my old swg waaambulance...
MineralOel Steuer Amarr OP EC	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:41:00 - [33] Originally by: Bylok Its not that one guy that does the fighting. Its as the previous post stated. Its just a guy sitting AFK 90% of the time feeding intel to other reds in system. As far as growing balls and getting him thats my point there is no way to get someone cloaked for 3 days how about learn how to read. I do not see how this can possibly as it stands add any value to the game buf for griefers. 1.) If he is Away From Keyboard he can't give Intel to Anybody. 2.) It is not possible to stay cloaked for 3 days, because there is a Downtime every day. Originally by: Gonada cloaking does indeed need a counter. those that say its fine are crazy, plain and simple. not the least is the intell gathering methods used by alliances in regars to this. having countless alts, trial accounts strewn across 0.0 or in empire gathering enemy movements without recourse is silly at best. Your only Problem is, that you see the enemy as soon as he enters the local chat. Simple remove it and you don't have to worry about the easy spying. Of Course a Carebear like you would never want to lose his NobrainerFeelsaveDevice, which the Local chat is. The only numbers I care about are 3-2-1-launch..
xhardxcorex	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:44:00 - [34] Originally by: DubanFP Originally by: Malcanis OK let's make it so that cloaked ships move at -75% speed, and can't target or activate modules, and can't lock until 15-30 seconds after uncloaking. Sounds a bit weak... Lets keep them from warping out too and it should be fair. Congrats on missing the point. Combat effectiveness isn't the issue here. Its tactic without a counter. I don't want to get rid of the tactic. I want to be able to do something about it. Even if that something if costly and a hassle. Before you start with the 'just be smart about it, stay aligned' rant again think about the balance here. A skill a brand new character can train in a month and a half grants complete immunity for reprisal even though AFK?
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:45:00 - [35] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: MyOwnSling How do I grief you if you can't see me I have no idea ZOMG LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO sotry couldnt help myself that was funny not having a face is certainly brightening up the forums The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:53:00 - [36] Originally by: xhardxcorex Its tactic without a counter. He's cloaked in your system. Counter: Ignore him. Originally by: xhardxcorex A skill a brand new character can train in a month and a half grants complete immunity for reprisal even though AFK? Reprisal? Reprisal is retaliating for an injury received by injuring them back. Since before he can injure you he has to uncloak... end of dilemma. Unless, I guess, you consider just being cloaked in the system an injury itself. If so, for your revenge you can cloak and go afk too. That'll teach him!
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.16 22:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Armoured C not having a face is certainly brightening up the forums It's true. __________ Originally by: Tortun Nahme nah, that is the true badge of a forum warrior, to draw the humorous ire of the devs
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:04:00 - [38] Originally by: xhardxcorex Originally by: MyOwnSling How do I grief you if you can't see me By sitting in system, mostly AFK, for days on end in a cloaked ship. Its psychological warfare without any sort of equal counter. A cloaked command ship can effectively shutdown mining, logistic and ratting operations in a system for an indefinite period so long as a few basic principles of patience and caution are adhered to. The problem with this is that there's no counter. The cloaked ship can sit AFK for an indefinite period of time. It guerrilla warfare but with no native population to crack down on. Instead the opposition just disappears into thin air. Instead of the guerrilla being hard to find, it's completely impossible. Instead of it being challenging for the guerrilla to stay hidden, its stupidly easy. Just get up and walk away from the computer, leaving the game on. The tactic should remain in game. Logistic harassment is sound and viable strategy. It shouldn't be indefinitely un-counterable. Especially not when it involves sitting AFK in game for 20 hours a day. Its only psychological warfare to people who have severe mental issues.
Bylok	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:06:00 - [39] Again I am referring to game balance. There is no counter skill to counter it. You just can not ignore someone whom is feedng intel to reds. They can be AFK most of the time but when they are NOT AFK can cause lots of issues and yes damge by feeding intel. Sitting AFK myself does not resolve the intel issue and it certainly does not create a counter move. Why is it that the few of you whom seem to enjoy this dont have any real game balance solutions just insults. Carebear ya ok thats why I live in 0.0 Carebare is sitting cloaked up for days feeding intel now that is carebare.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Its only psychological warfare to people who have severe mental issues. /\__ Speaking of which.. I think they should ban docking and POS shields as both cause me lots of 'grief' too. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.

xhardxcorex	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:11:00 - [41] Originally by: Catherine Frasier Counter: Ignore him. Ignoring a ship shooting at you can be done, but is not advisable. Originally by: Catherine Frasier Reprisal? Reprisal is retaliating for an injury received by injuring them back. Since before he can injure you he has to uncloak... end of dilemma. Unless, I guess, you consider just being cloaked in the system an injury itself. If so, for your revenge you can cloak and go afk too. That'll teach him! If I were talking about someone gathering intel that retort would make sense. Taking one sentence out of context doesn't make you witty. Its a one sided mechanic allowing one account, with minimal time, effort, strategy or thought, disrupt logistics in system.
Ra Vhim Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:13:00 - [42] I think ratters should be allowed to have a button that decloaks everything in the system. I also think a blob should have a button that stops all ships in the system to fly faster then 1 km/sec (though, a nerf.. erh.. rebalance patch is in the works to solve that speed thing. That can also work).
xhardxcorex	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:14:00 - [43] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Its only psychological warfare to people who have severe mental issues. /\__ Speaking of which.. I think they should ban docking and POS shields as both cause me lots of 'grief' too. A docked character can only undock from a hostile station once. A station can be taken. A POS can be taken down. Explain how you counter someone sitting cloaked.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:15:00 - [44] what is the difference between a cloaked ship giving intel and an inti giving intel? If both are using bookmarks they can be near impossible to stop once in a system.
xhardxcorex	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:18:00 - [45] Originally by: baltec1 what is the difference between a cloaked ship giving intel and an inti giving intel? If both are using bookmarks they can be near impossible to stop once in a system. The inty takes a live person sitting behind the controls at all times. A pulse is required. Cloaking requires that you get into the system and... that you go make a sandwich, do the laundry and come back in a few hours.
Sarin Adler Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:22:00 - [46] Poasting in a "AFK cloakers are not good, mkay?" thread. ---
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:23:00 - [47] Originally by: xhardxcorex The inty takes a live person sitting behind the controls at all times. A pulse is required. Cloaking requires that you get into the system and... that you go make a sandwich, do the laundry and come back in a few hours. In that time you can jump in an entire capital fleet and several jump frieghters full of supplies and have it dock up and log off for later without that "scout" knowing. I see no case for nerfing my bomber.
xhardxcorex	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:26:00 - [48] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: xhardxcorex The inty takes a live person sitting behind the controls at all times. A pulse is required. Cloaking requires that you get into the system and... that you go make a sandwich, do the laundry and come back in a few hours. In that time you can jump in an entire capital fleet and several jump frieghters full of supplies and have it dock up and log off for later without that "scout" knowing. I see no case for nerfing my bomber. And this is a counter for cloaking... how? Unless you sit in your bomber cloaked for more than 12 hours at a time, it has nothing to do with your bomber.
Bylok	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:33:00 - [49] I'm not saying nerf them I am saying there should be a counter to the tactic. If that isn't possible then fine "nerf" it since you will call it that. I call it common sense that a mechanism of some sort should limit it to some duration of a few hours. I don't like nerfs myself but cloak forever bah its just lame. Oh and as I said currently it can be used to grief as well.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Ore 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:39:00 - [50] Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 16/10/2008 23:39:02 Surely if the guy is cloaked and gathering intel for the reds. Technically that doesn't mean he is afk. I tend to use bombers because i like to kill people in belts. So I warp to a belt, cloak in a system that tends to be mined or ratted in and I sit there. I wait. And wait and wait. I move to a perfect position above or below the belt, or between the roids and the centre. I then wait. Very patiently AT MY COMPUTER for some soul who thinks I'm just AFK to come into the belt. Let him mine, let him rat. If he's the right kinda ship I'll pop him and disappear into the night. I can't warped cloaked (boy I wish) so if I warp from the gate to a belt or station I am visible. People can see me. I have to have luck on my side to be totally undetected in a busy system. Bombers and Covert ops are also built of paper. So if you do catch me, I'm dead meat. Yes you can't detect them with a scan probe. That is okay I think. Perhaps not allow the cloak to be mounted on certain types of ship? It totally nerfs ships that aren't designed to use them in the current state of the game. I use them all the time, and yes I do often hide at a safe spot and cloak but only if I'm being chased down. I certainly don't go afk for hours everyday and those that do are giving ALL people who use the cloak a bad name. But then again, I don't have any alts so if I did do that i wouldn't have fun stalking carebears or even playing EVE.

Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:43:00 - [51] We're still on this?? 2 years ago this wasn't new. Aside from the obvious troll, I'd just like to play devil's advocate here for a moment. When I learned cloaking I found it a valuable resource that brought the game to an entirely different level. With covert ops, I now had the means to bypass many a gate camp, travel silently to any place I'd need or like to be, etc. The people who whine about it are griefers themselves, unhappy or unable to adapt to the playstyles of others. You can't have it YOUR way while playing your massively singleplayer online mining game so you decide to ruin it for everyone. You come out here to the forums, whine for a few months about something only the forum cares about because they, too, are here to whine about the same issue you're wining about, and the rest of the population that never comes out here has to suffer when they change something for the worse. I've seen EVE evolve since late 2002. I've seen them change the names of the empires, the shape of the map, countless changes to modules, 2.5 different GUI's. Yeah. They removed the ability to scan into the other side of a stargate IIRC. Changing cloaking does not benefit the population. It benefits you, the complainer that you can't do what I can do. Learn cloaking. See the drawbacks. Come back and edit your post.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:46:00 - [52] THERE IS A COUNTER, you just have to get with in 2km of him !!!! althought it might take you a while... space is big you know The EvE LifeÖ Blog bringing you the blogs that really matter working in conjunction with EVE Network NewsÖ
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:48:00 - [53] Originally by: xhardxcorex Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: xhardxcorex The inty takes a live person sitting behind the controls at all times. A pulse is required. Cloaking requires that you get into the system and... that you go make a sandwich, do the laundry and come back in a few hours. In that time you can jump in an entire capital fleet and several jump frieghters full of supplies and have it dock up and log off for later without that "scout" knowing. I see no case for nerfing my bomber. And this is a counter for cloaking... how? Unless you sit in your bomber cloaked for more than 12 hours at a time, it has nothing to do with your bomber. The only people who can get bombers to work are the ones who can wait. In major ops I tend to be in the system hours before the fight to get into position. While hunting I can spend an hour or two in a busy belt watching BS and HACs ratting away, waiting, watching for that one cruiser or hulk to show up. I continue to wait till it starts ratting/mining, then when I deem the timing and position correct I pounce, killing the target and warping off to a safe spot to once again wait while the system defenders close down the gates and search for me. You nerf the cloak and you nerf the only advantage my bomber has.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Armoured C THERE IS A COUNTER, you just have to get with in 2km of him !!!! althought it might take you a while... space is big you know Zing! Alas, this is not always true. My covops seems to want to stay cloaked at random even within 2km. I think the actual distance in some slight cases is "Within somewhere around the sphere of" 2km, though the distance can be as little as 4m sometimes. I noticed that my bombers do this more than other ships, especially when docking or with cans.
Snake Doctor MacroIntel United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:55:00 - [55] Oh. By the by, there is a fix for cloaking: Remove local. It happened for a day once. Best bug ever. Anything that shuts Jita up is a win in my book.
Catherine Frasier	Posted - 2008.10.16 23:59:00 - [56] Originally by: xhardxcorex Originally by: Catherine Frasier Counter: Ignore him. Ignoring a ship shooting at you can be done, but is not advisable. So you can't ignore him 'cause he's shooting at you... while cloaked... and afk. Makes perfect sense. Originally by: xhardxcorex Its a one sided mechanic allowing one account, with minimal time, effort, strategy or thought, disrupt logistics in system. Actually it doesn't disrupt anything. You do by (over)reacting ineffectually. I'd stick to arguing that it allows them to gather intel without risk, that one at least has some truth to it.
Brigsby5987 Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.10.17 00:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Bylok Edited by: Bylok on 16/10/2008 21:48:51 Cloaking currently is great for griefers. There should be a limit on the time duration. Use current game mechanics to limit the time cap use or something. I can see a cloak duration of say a hour or two but unlimited cloaking is dumb and only usefull to griefers when its for that long of a duration. There should be a counter skill perhaps let skilled probers at least have a chance at finding a cloaked ship. Either a counter skill or a limit for the duration/frequency of cloak I feel is needed Yeah cloak is griefing... are you ******ed? They cant shoot, cant activate mods, cant hardly move, cant warp, cant do anything but sit and stare at you.... cmon. _______________________________________ Sig? where. There's no sig here.
Bylok	Posted - 2008.10.17 00:03:00 - [58] Edited by: Bylok on 17/10/2008 00:04:48 Originally by: Snake Doctor We're still on this?? 2 years ago this wasn't new. Aside from the obvious troll, I'd just like to play devil's advocate here for a moment. When I learned cloaking I found it a valuable resource that brought the game to an entirely different level. With covert ops, I now had the means to bypass many a gate camp, travel silently to any place I'd need or like to be, etc. The people who whine about it are griefers themselves, unhappy or unable to adapt to the playstyles of others. You can't have it YOUR way while playing your massively singleplayer online mining game so you decide to ruin it for everyone. You come out here to the forums, whine for a few months about something only the forum cares about because they, too, are here to whine about the same issue you're wining about, and the rest of the population that never comes out here has to suffer when they change something for the worse. I've seen EVE evolve since late 2002. I've seen them change the names of the empires, the shape of the map, countless changes to modules, 2.5 different GUI's. Yeah. They removed the ability to scan into the other side of a stargate IIRC. Changing cloaking does not benefit the population. It benefits you, the complainer that you can't do what I can do. Learn cloaking. See the drawbacks. Come back and edit your post. I do know how to cloak and in fact do utilize the skill. Maybe you should read what I said cloaking for 3 or 4 days has what purpose? (yes yes I know after down time you have to re-cloak). Funny you say what you do about people like me posting this here becasue you read it so your one of those people in fact. I can cloak very well and do fly covert ops. No one is compaining but you. Oh and forgive me I didnt play the game back in 2002 and I doubt that it matters at all to what I posted. In fact 90% of your reply does not apply to my post.
Bylok	Posted - 2008.10.17 00:06:00 - [59] Edited by: Bylok on 17/10/2008 00:06:48 Originally by: Brigsby5987 Originally by: Bylok Edited by: Bylok on 16/10/2008 21:48:51 Cloaking currently is great for griefers. There should be a limit on the time duration. Use current game mechanics to limit the time cap use or something. I can see a cloak duration of say a hour or two but unlimited cloaking is dumb and only usefull to griefers when its for that long of a duration. There should be a counter skill perhaps let skilled probers at least have a chance at finding a cloaked ship. Either a counter skill or a limit for the duration/frequency of cloak I feel is needed Yeah cloak is griefing... are you ******ed? They cant shoot, cant activate mods, cant hardly move, cant warp, cant do anything but sit and stare at you.... cmon. Read the thread cloaking is not griefing. Try reading.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.10.17 00:13:00 - [60] Originally by: Bylok Read the thread cloaking is not griefing. Try reading. I read it..this is what you said Originally by: Bylok Cloaking currently is great for griefers. I am the cloaker griefing you.



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