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Tempest is gimped.

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Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:18:00 - [1] Edited by: Presidio on 28/06/2004 08:23:58 I am sure I am not the first one to say this but... Tempest can't be configured with a decent competitive PvP loadout. It needs less Powergrid and more CPU. Been playing EVE for 14+ months now and this is the second time Tempest is getting hit with a nerf bat. I have min BS 5. Gunnery maxed... etc. And I am flying caldary. It's a shame really. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Zoneh	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:23:00 - [2] Well they could leave PG as it is and put more cpu in... Cuz you cant fit anything like normal XL booster, you need Clarity(25mil)...
Zansin	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:25:00 - [3] Yeah man i totaly agree My tempest is nerfed to Sh*t I have to put on a damn Co-Processor for gods sake what have you reduced me to?? i could fit annother tracking mod or sumthing come on CCP sort it out
Bella Verde	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:38:00 - [4] actually tempest is still pretty good for close range. And it can be very useful at long range too.
Bella Verde	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:39:00 - [5] actually tempest is still pretty good for close range. And it can be very useful at long range too.
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:48:00 - [6] Originally by: Bella Verde actually tempest is still pretty good for close range. And it can be very useful at long range too. Pretty good as compared to what other ship? a Thorax? Gotta love the noobs they keep the economy going... - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
fras	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:52:00 - [7] megathron is exactly the same, 90% of setups need a cpu. Raven has PG troubles, Apoc has the lowest cpu of any tier 2 BS. Fitting probs are a part of the game, adjust and move on.
Grimveous	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:54:00 - [8] The tempest hasnt been gimped imo, its been changed yes. But you just have to adjust to these changes. ================================================ I eat bunnies, ich esse hassen, karl tenderises the bunnies before i eat them by sitting on them
Judicator	Posted - 2004.06.28 08:59:00 - [9] Tell me about the PG problems on the Raven I don't think the Tempest is all that gimped. Saw a guy from EVOL use it to very good effect. Must say I was impressed. -------------------------
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.28 09:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Judicator Tell me about the PG problems on the Raven I don't think the Tempest is all that gimped. Saw a guy from EVOL use it to very good effect. Must say I was impressed. I too saw a guy kill a Crow with a Bestower. It doesn't mean Bestower is a good PvP ship. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung

Judicator	Posted - 2004.06.28 09:16:00 - [11] It also does not mean the Bestower is NOT a good PvP ship? It also does not mean Tempest is not a good PvP ship? I think it is a matter of adjusting. I got a Raven setup that right now requirers me to use a CPU booster One should not think the Raven need that anymore. It's not because my skills are bad, it's because I am not using tons of named stuff and my setup is very CPU intensive. I had to sacrifice some stuff to make it all fit. I've seen pilots use 750mm howitzers to backup their main armament of 1400mm howitzers. Personally I can't fit 6x Siege + 2 large guns unless I make a good deal of sacrifices. If it is really gimped that much I can understand you feel annoyned since you have BS V. But untill I hear other pilots that I know adapt to stuff and not just go "argh wtf **** you CCP" I can only assumeit is still a viable ship when used right. Well, time will tell, some Tempest pilots seem to adapt and move on. At least from my PoV. -------------------------
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.28 09:20:00 - [12] Originally by: fras megathron is exactly the same, 90% of setups need a cpu. Raven has PG troubles, Apoc has the lowest cpu of any tier 2 BS. Fitting probs are a part of the game, adjust and move on. Mega does way more DOT. Has more armor = better suited for armor tanking. And it can be a better miner. And same goes for Apoc. I really can't see why would anyone even want to own a Tempest other than not having any other option because of the skills. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.28 09:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Judicator If it is really gimped that much I can understand you feel annoyned since you have BS V. But untill I hear other pilots that I know adapt to stuff and not just go "argh wtf **** you CCP" I can only assumeit is still a viable ship when used right. I don't really care I have adapted already by switching to a different ship. I have learned from other MMOs not to get frustrated over nerfs. I just wanted to express my dissapointment. That's all I am done. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Rob Mattacks	Posted - 2004.06.28 09:54:00 - [14] Yes for a long range set up the Tempest is overly strapped for Cpu I think. I have electronics, weapon upgrades and energy grid upgrades all at level 5 so its not skills. Basically being FORCED to use shield defence when using long range is very cpu intensive from the midslot modules plus low slot modules cos of the fact that powerdiags are required now to get a decent defence which also takes up a lot more cpu than previously. Also on a ship already tight for cpu before the patch it now has to contend with using even more cpu for cruise launchers, if you wanna use them, which as tomb said were designed as a potent secondary weapon for ships like Tempest- in actual fact they do less DOT than heavies before patch for higher amount of cpu.
Jarjar	Posted - 2004.06.28 10:28:00 - [15] Originally by: Presidio Originally by: fras megathron is exactly the same, 90% of setups need a cpu. Raven has PG troubles, Apoc has the lowest cpu of any tier 2 BS. Fitting probs are a part of the game, adjust and move on. Mega does way more DOT. Has more armor = better suited for armor tanking. And it can be a better miner. And same goes for Apoc. I really can't see why would anyone even want to own a Tempest other than not having any other option because of the skills. Hmm, have you actually tried a close-range megathron? I can run out of cap simply by firing my guns at a tanked target, even if he's not firing back at me... And I don't have crappy engineering skills. To also run a large armor repairer isn't as easy as you might think, ESPECIALLY not when the enemy is using a nosferatu or two. For this reason alone I'm looking at training to use tempests.
mahhy	Posted - 2004.06.28 10:45:00 - [16] Seems all ships have some sort of shortage (CPU being the most common?). For example, I really love my Arma, even though it's incredibly short on CPU. In PvP I prefer to use pretty standard (or cheaper named) mods, and I'm usually forced to fit a Cp-Pro of some sort to make the setup work well (and I have high CPU related skills, kinda needed for the Arma!). If I wanted to though, I could fit all named gear and not have any problem running a full set of guns (DHB and Mega Beams), plus armor tanking with a fairly impressive cap recharge. Problem is that setup costs significantly more than the ship itself, so I don't take it into PvP I don't know anything bout flying a Tempest, just trying to illustrate that a lot of ships have fitting problems...
darth solo	Posted - 2004.06.28 10:55:00 - [17] Well...... my skill base is based on the tempest, with battleship LVL 5.... i know its not easy to fit now after the patch.. but EVERYONE is having fitting probs with all ships... i find it quite challenging now... other than the the raven, everyone is experementing with hi slots... its quite refreshing.. its seems now u can either hit hard with weaker defence, or tanh btr with weaker attack... u can always balance.. tempest with 800s is prob the best choice... but armour tanking a 6 low slot ship isnt too great.. id still prob shield tank it, and fit dmg mods and cap chargers in low. d solo.
TGIF	Posted - 2004.06.28 11:01:00 - [18] With skillpoints well over 13mil, with cap skills up to lvl 5, all CPU and powergrid related skills at level 5 and still i am not able to fit anything above a large shield booster, i am _not_ able to tank at all, i run out of cap with 1 large shieldbooster running and so on. Ravens are no problem to me, so is an Apoc who can tank better, keep cap up forever and so on. I dont have a megathron, but from my little encounters with them and seeing how suddenly alot of fleets consist about as much megathrons than there are scorpions im sure that ship isnt too bad either. - - - Absinthe Fueled
TGIF	Posted - 2004.06.28 11:09:00 - [19] Originally by: darth solo Well...... my skill base is based on the tempest, with battleship LVL 5.... i know its not easy to fit now after the patch.. but EVERYONE is having fitting probs with all ships... i find it quite challenging now... other than the the raven, everyone is experementing with hi slots... its quite refreshing.. its seems now u can either hit hard with weaker defence, or tanh btr with weaker attack... u can always balance.. tempest with 800s is prob the best choice... but armour tanking a 6 low slot ship isnt too great.. id still prob shield tank it, and fit dmg mods and cap chargers in low. d solo. I do not quite agree with you, mainly because of the following reason: The devs have clearly stated that the tracking is bugz0rd, in practice this equals to a lower damage output since when i use tracking mods in combo with tachyons i get nearly double the damage output. However 800mm with higher tracking than these guns do not seem to be affected by these changes and the tracking can keep up with the fact its bugged and thus tracking computers are not really a necesarry module. However, if the tracking bug is fixed and damage is restored to the large guns making them hard hitters again, this will make the 800mm a gun that is just one of the many. Thus the only advantage a ship will have is damage output in combination with tanking. Tanking will play a larger role after the patch, and since Tempest lacks the cpu to do shield tanking and the powergrid to armor tank, i am afraid that training our skills to level 5 was a waste of time. - - - Absinthe Fueled
ActiveX	Posted - 2004.06.28 11:25:00 - [20] Since the turrets' combat ability is FUBAR atm, I'll just comment on fittings. I believe the devs are aiming to give mixed fitted ships (long and short range weapons and decent defenses) a fair chance in combat. They are doing that by forcing you to pick between offense and defense. Before the patch you were automatically gimped if you even considered the idea of using 2 sizes of turrets in PvP. Now its almost a necessity. But even after all this ppl still try to get the same affect as before while only using one size weapon. the point is you dont need one weapon, you need different ones. 6 800mms isnt the answer, or at least shouldnt be. ____________ Sex / Rank 9 / SP: 1280 of 2304000

Shocky	Posted - 2004.06.28 20:12:00 - [21] Edited by: Shocky on 28/06/2004 20:14:27 My tempest is now a missile boat with 4 siege launchers and some crappy 425mm's to pick of frigates. My large projectiles are now in a hanger collecting dust, there utterly useless now. Tempest could definately do with more CPU but its not as importent as fixing the weapons.
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.06.28 20:27:00 - [22] Quote: My tempest is now a missile boat with 4 siege launchers and some crappy 425mm's to pick of frigates. My large projectiles are now in a hanger collecting dust, there utterly useless now. Tempest could definately do with more CPU but its not as importent as fixing the weapons. You came to roughly the same conclusion I did. Try a pair of cheap named dual 650's, or even standard ones. They hit way harder then the dual 425mm, they have a better damage bonus, and the ROF isn't that different. That way you can still shoehorn in a pair of heavy nosferatus.
Presidio	Posted - 2004.06.28 23:09:00 - [23] Using medium projectiles on a Tempest means you don't get the ship bonus. While that's fine for NPC hunting. In PvP you are handicaped. - "Passivity is fatal to us. Our goal is to make the enemy passive." Mao Tse-tung
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2004.06.28 23:46:00 - [24] The only problem with the tempest is that it does crap for damage. even with battleship 5 and large proj 5, you can't come close to the damage output of a megathron. 1400's do decent damage at range(if you can hit..) but 800's will just barely get through a megathrons shields before he blows up your tempest. There are some good energy draining setups on a tempest, but that usually means no missles and no defense against jamming. In my opinion the only guns worth having are the ones that do maximum damage within warp scramble range. I think fleet battles are a waste of time so I don't even think about them anymore. No matter what you do, every ship deals more damage with blasters than with lasers or projectiles. A tempest with blasters does more damage than a tempest with 800's. An apoc with blasters does more damage than an apoc with lasers. I think the Raven is the only exception to this rule. 800's would be cool if they required absolutely no cap, so you could use large energy neutralizers, lasers would be good if they did more damage than blasters since they require more cap. So I'm very dissappointed with the current battleship balancing. Jamming aside, nothing can compete with blasters up close, and that goes for all ships...
Bella Verde	Posted - 2004.06.28 23:58:00 - [25] Edited by: Bella Verde on 29/06/2004 00:08:06 Edited by: Bella Verde on 29/06/2004 00:05:50 The Temp is probably the most versatile battleship in game right now. Can shield tank, armor tank, use missiles, guns. I've got so many setups I'm trying out now, like nosferatus, dual 425mm autocannons, siege launchers. It packs a very high punch if used right, either long or short range. I've seen alot of people fit with armor tanked dual 425mm close range Tempests, and I myself have used it, and I must say I am very impressed with the results. The pre-patch 1400mm based setup with shield tanking still performs admirably at long range as well. A missile setup can still function very well at both short and long range. All this said, the Tempest is undeniably the most versatile battleship currently. Its unpredictable what you may be facing in an enemy Tempest, more so than any other battleship. Who knows what tricks it may have up its sleeve? It may not be as damage-dealing as a megathron at short range, but it sure uses less cap. It may not tank as well as an apoc or raven, but it can tank either way. Its not the best in any one thing, but it trumps other ships with its versatility and unpredictability, lowest capacitor usage, highest scan resolution (85 compared to raven's 70), lower signature radius (340 compared to raven's 460), and its speed. Thats right, its the second fastest battleship out there (Typhoon being #1). That may not seem like much, but it matters more than you might think. Its slightly harder to hit, and with a mwd on short range setups it closes faster than a megathron. With the signature radius its the hardest battleship to hit. These are the reasons why the Tempest is not useless in PvP. (On another note, I agree that blasters should use more cap. They are in effect particle accelerators, and do loads of damage. That would mean that you can choose between doing lots of damage, or using no cap.)
Managalar	Posted - 2004.06.29 00:17:00 - [26] I've been using 5 mega beams, and have been doing more damage than with my 1400s on my Tempest. I plan to 'accidently' loose my Tempest and buy an apoc with the plat payout. It seems like after every change some other ship comes out on top and the best way to deal with the change is to roll with it. =======Abaddon======= =======Abaddon=======
Jakal	Posted - 2004.06.29 00:18:00 - [27] Edited by: Jakal on 29/06/2004 00:39:59 Edited by: Jakal on 29/06/2004 00:20:04 i cant believe you made another post about the tempest, have you logged on to entropy lately? no, well then stfu. P.S. and btw the tempest isn't a specialized ship, you can't expect it to do one thing as good as the specialized battleships. if you think it should be able to, im glad you dont have TomBs job. -Adapt and Overcome.
Bella Verde	Posted - 2004.06.29 00:49:00 - [28] Originally by: Jakal Edited by: Jakal on 29/06/2004 00:39:59 Edited by: Jakal on 29/06/2004 00:20:04 i cant believe you made another post about the tempest, have you logged on to entropy lately? no, well then stfu. P.S. and btw the tempest isn't a specialized ship, you can't expect it to do one thing as good as the specialized battleships. if you think it should be able to, im glad you dont have TomBs job. Too bad you didnt actually read my post. I said its not as good at any one thing as the others, but it can do pretty much anything, which is its strongpoint. Go back to Counter-Strike, where you can whimper and moan at people who dont think exactly the way your simple mind does, and without any grammar, to boot.
Gyrn Fzirth	Posted - 2004.06.29 03:19:00 - [29] Tempest is not gimped. Just cause you can't fit it well doesn't mean other can't /emote hugs his tempest =============== Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
Omniwar	Posted - 2004.06.29 08:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Bella Verde Originally by: Jakal Edited by: Jakal on 29/06/2004 00:39:59 Edited by: Jakal on 29/06/2004 00:20:04 i cant believe you made another post about the tempest, have you logged on to entropy lately? no, well then stfu. P.S. and btw the tempest isn't a specialized ship, you can't expect it to do one thing as good as the specialized battleships. if you think it should be able to, im glad you dont have TomBs job. Too bad you didnt actually read my post. I said its not as good at any one thing as the others, but it can do pretty much anything, which is its strongpoint. Go back to Counter-Strike, where you can whimper and moan at people who dont think exactly the way your simple mind does, and without any grammar, to boot. He wasnt referring to your post at all but rather replying to the original poster so I guess you owe someone an apoligy. And english isnt my native language and so dont flame my grammar please. *Spawn of the Devil*



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