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Ghost Training interview with Torfi Frans over at MMORPG.com

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Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:00:00 - [31] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Seth Ruin Originally by: Winterblink Both examples don't really affect their bottom line in a negative fashion. :) True, but imagine (hypothetically, if you will) they discover they can save a significant amount of money by sharding as opposed to keeping the cluster as-is. Do you think they'd stay with the cluster style for the good of the players? At one time, I'd say yes. These days, I'm not so sure. i think you're deliberately trying to compare apples to oranges. one of the things that makes EVE unique and special is the single shard - if there is anyone, player or dev, that feels that ghost training is as important to the make-up of EVE as this is, i would like to beat them to death with a rotten kipper. Of course. I agree ghost training was not a core feature of EVE. However, my issue is--and has been since this was announced--the excuses they give. "It's unfair to other players" became "it's overloading our database," which became "well nobody should get it for free and nobody else does it." The last thing CCP should be doing is trying to reconcile their game with "industry standards" and "what other companies are doing." There have been plenty of other clone MMORPGs out there, and as WoW has shown, the only way to win the clone-MMORPG battle is to have massive amounts of advertising: something I highly doubt CCP can afford. Instead, CCP should take every opportunity to show how they are different (implying "better") than the competition: Something similar to Apple, who despite having a relatively small market share has been doing quite well for themselves by emphasizing their difference from "the rest" of the competition. CCP also shouldn't lie to the customers. This is something that irks me and has irked me since the T20 incident. We're (mostly) adults here. We can handle bad news. There's no reason to lie. Sugar-coat, sure. But straight-up lie? Had CCP stated, simply, "We are disabling the ability to continue training on inactive accounts due to the growing trend of farming high-SP characters for sale" or something similar--the first time around--I would've of course been disappointed, but I would not have felt so cheated. I'd like to think this is what the majority of other "Don't End Ghost Training" whiners are thinking. Personally, I couldn't care less about whether people can ghost train or not. I've never done it myself, and I pay for a year's subscription in advance. It's the poor handling by CCP that has left a bad taste in my mouth, so to speak.
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:01:00 - [32] ibtl! ether mitnal or applebabe im guessing applebabe i dont think navigator will grace us here p.s. i dont see anything wrong with discussing things here aswell my dear moderators
Aloriana Jacques Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:06:00 - [33] To whom it may concerned; Please remove yourself from your cross and use the wood to build a bridge AND GET OVER IT. Thank you, -Jacques - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:28:00 - [34] Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Malcanis And then try and tell us that inactive accounts are a significant load on the database... Really? Where's that stated? Now... here it is.. I am saving it to posterity on EVE-Files: Devblog - w/ implied database issues.. LOL Torfi... No matter what Torfi says, fact is a fact, they have lied repeatedly, tried to deflect the issue on to something else, try to evade as much as they could. When all they had to do is come out and say that they needed money, it is unfair that they are not getting paid for everything. We would still ***, but at least we the players would not feel like complete morons for trusting these people. What they did was an insult to all people with modi**of intelligence, why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
IR Scoutar Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:30:00 - [35] Originally by: Jinx Barker why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! because its good for bussiness of course worked well for them banks so its bound to work well for ccp
Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:30:00 - [36] Originally by: Jinx Barker why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! The core of my argument. I just wish CCP had better handling of these issues.
Pesky LaRue Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Jinx Barker but at least we the players would not feel like complete morons for trusting these people. What they did was an insult to all people with modi****of intelligence, why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! maybe that's your problem, right there. i don't "trust" CCP anymore than I trust Comcast or AT&T or, well, ANY money-making organization to do anything other than look after their own interests. so many people here seem to think that CCP are actually their pals and that they're putting out EVE simply because they wuv us and that they'll never act like other corporations, never change policies mid-stride, never say one thing and then do another... it's a fact of modern life. i'm certain if you look hard enough you'll find examples of this with almost any company that provides you a service, but because some people love this game, they lose (or lack) perspective ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Malcanis And then try and tell us that inactive accounts are a significant load on the database... Really? Where's that stated? Now... here it is.. I am saving it to posterity on EVE-Files: Devblog - w/ implied database issues.. LOL Torfi... No matter what Torfi says, fact is a fact, they have lied repeatedly, tried to deflect the issue on to something else, try to evade as much as they could. When all they had to do is come out and say that they needed money, it is unfair that they are not getting paid for everything. We would still ***, but at least we the players would not feel like complete morons for trusting these people. What they did was an insult to all people with modi*of intelligence, why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! Can I haz your stuff? There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.*
Zoiewu	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:45:00 - [39] If it was all about balancing and not money then why not give people a months notice so EVERYBODY is aware and can plan ahead, Instead of giving less than 2 days notice.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Jinx Barker why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! Because it would have been just as bad if they confirmed they needed money The only realistic thing they should've done is just kept quiet and let the players make their own opinions of the matter - but hindsight is 20/20 _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Salmeria	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:56:00 - [41] I can see why they removed it. It really isn't fair that someone can train up to 4m SP (titans V) while inactive from the game. Really, they should come to a compromise. Allow accounts to ghost train for a week or two. That way its still a feature but it isn't overpowered.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:56:00 - [42] Originally by: Thargat Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Malcanis And then try and tell us that inactive accounts are a significant load on the database... Really? Where's that stated? Now... here it is.. I am saving it to posterity on EVE-Files: Devblog - w/ implied database issues.. LOL Torfi... No matter what Torfi says, fact is a fact, they have lied repeatedly, tried to deflect the issue on to something else, try to evade as much as they could. When all they had to do is come out and say that they needed money, it is unfair that they are not getting paid for everything. We would still ***, but at least we the players would not feel like complete morons for trusting these people. What they did was an insult to all people with modiof intelligence, why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! Can I haz your stuff? You can't afford my stuff slapy, and where do you see me say I quit? I will give ANYONE on this forums 5 Billion ISK if you find me saying "I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive"**. I am just pointing out what a disgrace this has been. But seriously, find me say "I quit" on this forums and I will give you 5 Billion ISK. But remember, it has to be explicitly stated by me that I quit because of this... OK? Go, run now.. . ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:02:00 - [43] Originally by: Jinx Barker You can't afford my stuff slapy I beg to differ, but nvm. Eventually you will WANT to give me your stuffz waves hands There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Jinx Barker I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive Link Can I have my 5b now? _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Oftherocks Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:05:00 - [45] Originally by: Jinx Barker "I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive"[/b]. 5 Billion ISK please and thank you
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:07:00 - [46] Originally by: Oftherocks Originally by: Jinx Barker "I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive"[/b]. 5 Billion ISK please and thank you Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Jinx Barker I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive Link Can I have my 5b now? You both suck. . I know, I will claim I have outsourced my Post Writing, and that way I am not responsible. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:10:00 - [47] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Malcanis And then try and tell us that inactive accounts are a significant load on the database... Really? Where's that stated? Now... here it is.. I am saving it to posterity on EVE-Files: Devblog - w/ implied database issues.. LOL Torfi... No matter what Torfi says, fact is a fact, they have lied repeatedly, tried to deflect the issue on to something else, try to evade as much as they could. When all they had to do is come out and say that they needed money, it is unfair that they are not getting paid for everything. We would still ***, but at least we the players would not feel like complete morons for trusting these people. What they did was an insult to all people with modi**of intelligence, why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! I wish you guys would keep to your designated terrarium in that other section of the forums. ...
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:14:00 - [48] Originally by: Jinx Barker You both suck, despite being technically accurate, so I'm transferring the monies to Chaos Incarnate (cause he was first) right now. Fixed Ahh, i kid _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:14:00 - [49] Originally by: Razin I wish you guys would keep to your designated terrarium in that other section of the forums. Just for that, I think you win all of the forums for a day. I would call it a 'crocodile pit', terrarium is too mild of a description. ::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
Jethro Jechonias Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:39:00 - [50] Edited by: Jethro Jechonias on 21/10/2008 22:44:42 While I am disappointed with the removal of Ghost Training, I am much more disappointed with CCP's attempts to but a spin on it. This was an official feature. They decided to remove it. That is all fair and good. However, calling it a bug is a complete load of crap. It is listed as a specific feature in the Revelations patch notes. It was decided that this feature would not be available on the China (Serenity) server. That change was made almost 2 years ago. Now CCP has decided to remove that feature completely. Again, while I will miss that feature, it is a fair and reasonable change. I just wished that they had been more up front and honest about the change. Obviously, it is an attempt to increase revenues by encouraging people to keep their subscriptions active more consistantly. How successful it will be has yet to be seen. I guess my hopes that CCP might be different from other companies, by being honest with its customers about their motivations, might be vain. Marketting crap, like how they have attempted to spin this into sounding like a bug fix, just forces us to look at everything that they might say as having a hidden meaning, instead of taking it at face value. So when I read stuff like: Quote: "At the time," Torfi explained, "we had not introduced EVE time code. Everyone was using credit card subscriptions so it was more of an effort to un-subscribe and re-subscribe than it is today..." and remembering that I was already switching to using GTC's payments before the release of Revelations, it makes me wonder how much more misinformation CCP is sending out to the press.
Joshua Calvert Caldari Safespot Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:43:00 - [51] I'm not going to get into the whole feature/bug argument but it seems to me like a strange decision to allow non-paying people to receive a benefit in a game. The server processes used to process skill increases are tiny but they're still using a resource you're not paying for for the full period.
OutOfTheBox Cyborg	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:44:00 - [52] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Winterblink Originally by: Malcanis And then try and tell us that inactive accounts are a significant load on the database... Really? Where's that stated? Now... here it is.. I am saving it to posterity on EVE-Files: Devblog - w/ implied database issues.. LOL Torfi... No matter what Torfi says, fact is a fact, they have lied repeatedly, tried to deflect the issue on to something else, try to evade as much as they could. When all they had to do is come out and say that they needed money, it is unfair that they are not getting paid for everything. We would still ***, but at least we the players would not feel like complete morons for trusting these people. What they did was an insult to all people with modiof intelligence, why the hell do you guys need to lie?!!!! Presumably, if you have a modi**of intelligence, you can work it out for yourself. I can't believe how many people are crying about this on the forums like spoilt little children.
Jethro Jechonias Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:47:00 - [53] Originally by: OutOfTheBox Cyborg Presumably, if you have a modi****of intelligence, you can work it out for yourself. I can't believe how many people are crying about this on the forums like spoilt little children. As suprising as it might be, there are people who don't like companies that lie to them, even when those lies are obvious.
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.21 22:51:00 - [54] Edited by: Thargat on 21/10/2008 22:50:57 Originally by: Jethro Jechonias Originally by: OutOfTheBox Cyborg Presumably, if you have a modi***of intelligence, you can work it out for yourself. I can't believe how many people are crying about this on the forums like spoilt little children. As suprising as it might be, there are people who don't like companies that lie to them, even when those lies are obvious. Some CCP employees claim it's a bug, others that's it was a feature? How (on ANY level) is that lying. edit: Or do all employees at your work agree with eachother? There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.*
Doc Fury	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:09:00 - [55] Originally by: Thargat Edited by: Thargat on 21/10/2008 22:50:57 Originally by: Jethro Jechonias Originally by: OutOfTheBox Cyborg Presumably, if you have a modi***of intelligence, you can work it out for yourself. I can't believe how many people are crying about this on the forums like spoilt little children. As suprising as it might be, there are people who don't like companies that lie to them, even when those lies are obvious. Some CCP employees claim it's a bug, others that's it was a feature? How (on ANY level) is that lying. Truth in Advertising? The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'*
Researcher Qual	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:15:00 - [56] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Oftherocks Originally by: Jinx Barker "I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive"[/b]. 5 Billion ISK please and thank you Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Jinx Barker I quit due to cancellation of the Skill Training while inactive Link Can I have my 5b now? You both suck. . I know, I will claim I have outsourced my Post Writing, and that way I am not responsible. so...next time you're making wild, hyperbolic claims like an over-excited teenager and you think to yourself, "boy, no one takes me seriously" - can we think back to this moment?
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:20:00 - [57] Originally by: Doc Fury Truth in Advertising? What Ad? And don't wave the revelation patchnotes around since it says nothing relevant about it as a "feature" (besides it's marked in green). There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:32:00 - [58] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Razin I wish you guys would keep to your designated terrarium in that other section of the forums. Just for that, I think you win all of the forums for a day. I would call it a 'crocodile pit', terrarium is too mild of a description. I disagree; the name you suggest implies some outward source of respectable danger. It's the inhabitants that make the place, and those that inhabit that thread are only a danger to themselves. ...
Doc Fury	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:41:00 - [59] Edited by: Doc Fury on 21/10/2008 23:45:29 Originally by: Thargat Originally by: Doc Fury Truth in Advertising? What Ad? And don't wave the revelation patchnotes around since it says nothing relevant about it as a "feature" (besides it's marked in green). It was in the user/player's guide for 4+ years and Devs and GMs regularly referenced it as a feature (returning bonus) for players who were burned out. "Take a break from the game and train a long skill before you leave" I could care less about "ghost training" itself. It's how this was handled, and how CCP expected us to swallow a load of crap as an explanation with only 48 hours notice. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.'
Feriluce Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.21 23:50:00 - [60] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I heard that since the beginning, EVE Online has had characters. I believe this is too inline with industry standards and is therefore a bad thing I quite agree with you. EvE is a niche game, and should therefore have no features that is even remotely similar to other games on the market. I propose that instead of characters like all other games, eve should have no player characters whatsoever. Instead the player should be a moveable disembodied camera, that can freely fly around and marvel at the activity of npc's.

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