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McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.02 06:33:00 - [181] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: Fartarse In a straight pound for pound comparison with a Rorqual, I came up with the following build list. If you do a pound for pound comparison to say a cruiser or BS. You find the Orca doesn't have any more drone bay and grid etc than one of those. So that it should require capital components at all (even 1) for non-capital spec items, is silly. It is not a complete capital ship. Some parts of it are (corp hangar / ship maint /cargo etc). But it does not have the drone bay (or bonus) or grid, or defenses etc (rorqual can fit capital mods, Orca can not fit ANY capital mods). Clearly CCP are trying to make it not too complicated to build considering it is only a 400m ship. A freighter which costs twice as much only has 4 components, and the Orca already has 7. I want one enough to be stockpiling parts for the bpo release, I dont care if I have to build it myself I'll have one ready to rock 5 days after the patch. there will be people paying well over a billion for the first ones to come out of manufacturing throughout New Eden.
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.11.02 07:00:00 - [182] Originally by: McFly I want one enough to be stockpiling parts for the bpo release, I dont care if I have to build it myself I'll have one ready to rock 5 days after the patch. there will be people paying well over a billion for the first ones to come out of manufacturing throughout New Eden. As much as I would love to have one (or two), the exaggerated exuberance of the rush to own the first, will temper my enthusiasm and force me to be patient. After about 6 to 8-weeks I'll be able to get two for the initial offering prices. I hope...
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.11.02 08:23:00 - [183] I'm doubting they'll hit a billion isk except maybe for Orca no1. or no2. ;) They probably won't halve in 6-8 weeks though, but obviously they will be alot cheaper. I think even though there will be good demand the supply is going to be pretty enormous. Probably after the second batch come out, the prices will start to move quite abit lower. Probably hitting 500m after just a couple of weeks, at which point alot of people will switch their production lines for research. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.02 12:10:00 - [184] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Having spent about 6 hours testing the Orca so far, this is the best possible scenario myself and 7 others came up with and in doing so we're able to bring the ship to bear on what we think its intended purpose is. low/null Park Rorq at POS or SS in system. Gang with Orca at belt along with one Hauler (we used an ittyV although Im sure others would use a DST or something or other) and 4 hulks. Orca tractors in cans as hulks dump them. Hauler makes runs between Orca and Rorq and Nearby station. Doing this we had a decent chain going for about 3 hours before we decided to move onto other test scenarios. Its a system that works extraordinarily well. Empire Similar, one difference being we used the belts without a station present and no Rorq obviously. The itty made runs between the Orca and the nearest station a few jumps away. While it doesn't change the whole mining process all that much on the miners end, aside from the gang bonus, it did make the job of the hauler a hell of lot easier and we actually needed less effort from him. The hulk pilots found it comforting that they had a wide range to work in (although even before its not like you were restricted that much anyway) since just about every ship had a single jump in point at the orca. Its obvious that this ship isn't going to replace the jet can mining of your small ops, but it will ease logistics of your large corporate operations. I've played around with the Orca for a while myself when it was first put on sisi and found it will only eliminate the use of jetcans if both your Orca pilot and hauler are in the same corp. Even in a "Fleet" and the fleet has access to the corp hangar, non-corp members can only put ore/ice into the hangar but not remove it for hauling. Not even Alliance members can from what I tested. Unless they made some recent change, you will have to drop the ore in a jetcan for non-corp hauler to get it. So I would say you need a 4 man team to be effective with the Orca: 2 Hulk pilots, Orca, hauler. I use a 3 man team most of the time so the Orca will just have to haul and return.
Reverend The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.02 18:50:00 - [185] Some of my observations from the last hour of playing on Sisi: It's big, and it's SLOW. Those of you thinking this will replace a hauler, think again. With Nav 5 and Evasive Maneuvering 2 (I'm a carebear, not a PvP'er), I get an Inertia Modifier of 0.1296, not much better than a freighter. At 0 M/s, and aligned to target, takes 50 seconds (+/- 2 seconds) to get into warp. At 61 M/s top speed, if you warp to station and come out at 2000 M off, add another 30 seconds for docking. Translation: you are NOT going to be hauling from belt to station in this thing. It's going to sit parked at the belt with the miners and not move. My fitting so far: High: Tractor Beam, Laser Optimization, Laser Field Enhancement Med: Sensor Booster 2, 2x Photon Scattering II, Invuln II Low: 2x Cargohold II Rigs: 2x Cargo Opt II, 1 Cargo Opt I Drones: 5 lights, 5 mediums (Don't even TRY mining drones. You'll never get this beast in range of roids in a decent amount of time.) Good news is, with everything running 23/7, looks to be cap stable at 63%. Tractor beams are nice; 70km range and 1000 M/s drag. Sensor booster is a must to lock cans, takes forever without. Bad news is, as said before, the bonuses only make sense to pull someone out of a Hulk and into an Orca at the 5th or 6th pilot. At that point, you'll prolly need 1, maybe 2 Itty 5's hauling back and forth to station. This looks like a great tool for a cop led mining op with multiple pilots, I don't see it as the solo player multi account pwnmobile everyone thinks it is.
Arri Palere	Posted - 2008.11.03 01:20:00 - [186] I'm very disappointed with this ship at present for reasons others have already mentioned.
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.03 02:22:00 - [187] Edited by: Darkeen on 03/11/2008 02:22:07 Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 23/10/2008 14:02:14 Required Skills to fly the Orca Industrial Command Ships 1 (new skill) Spaceship Command 5 Mining Barge 5 Mining Foreman 3 OMG!! I can fly the Orca with one skill? SWEET!!! (member of the 'Dude where's my Orca?' fanclub...) Regards, Jason Brisbane
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.03 02:43:00 - [188] Edited by: Mara Rinn on 03/11/2008 02:43:27 Here's my mining setup currently: Me in my hulk Hauler/trader alt in Iteron I currently have to micromanage the setup because my hauler can only haul 1/2 can at a time. She's constantly warping back and forth to the station in the next system over. Here's my mining setup with the Orca: Me in my hulk Hauler/trader alt in Orca So by mid December, my hauler/trader alt will be trained to fly the Orca. No command links, no mindlink, nothing fancy. Just her, flying the Orca, will give me more cubic metres of ore per hour, much less micromanagement, and eliminate any risk of can flippers. Even better, if I engage in mining ops with small teams where other capsuleers already have Orcas, I have the option of getting my hauler pilot to fly a Retriever too. This means that in "safe" systems I can have both pilots mining into jetcans, then do a station run to bring out the Orca to pick up all those cans in one visit. As a fallback, the Orca has a clear advantage over industrials simply because it can use drones - have the Orca mining using drones while following the Hulk for some extra cubic metres per hour! So in answer to previous comments about needing five Hulk pilots minimum to benefit from an Orca, here's my claim: any mining operation that involves haulers at all will immediately benefit from switching a hauler pilot over to an Orca. The benefits become even greater over time as the hauler pilot trains in the use of the mining command links, and the mindlink implant. Sure it will take the solo miner a long time to make back the money spent on the Orca and training manuals, but the reduction in micromanagement will be invaluable.
RedLion Caldari Polaris Project Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.03 04:33:00 - [189] Sooo, now I can fill 90 000 m3 by using 5 small mining drones! :) (if only the roid belts were healthy!) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.11.03 09:29:00 - [190] Originally by: Darkeen Edited by: Darkeen on 03/11/2008 02:22:07 Originally by: Chribba Edited by: Chribba on 23/10/2008 14:02:14 Required Skills to fly the Orca Industrial Command Ships 1 (new skill) Spaceship Command 5 Mining Barge 5 Mining Foreman 3 OMG!! I can fly the Orca with one skill? SWEET!!! (member of the 'Dude where's my Orca?' fanclub...) iirc the skills have now changed to Mining Director 1 instead of Foreman 3. Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar

Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.03 09:59:00 - [191] Originally by: Reverend Some of my observations from the last hour of playing on Sisi: It's big, and it's SLOW. Those of you thinking this will replace a hauler, think again. With Nav 5 and Evasive Maneuvering 2 (I'm a carebear, not a PvP'er), I get an Inertia Modifier of 0.1296, not much better than a freighter. At 0 M/s, and aligned to target, takes 50 seconds (+/- 2 seconds) to get into warp. Fit an MWD and activate it for one possibly two cycles. You align to warp and move to dock a lot faster. And evasive manuevering 5 is just so useful even for a carebear.
Cmndr Griff Opinicus Operations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.03 10:51:00 - [192] Originally by: Tasko Pal Originally by: Reverend Some of my observations from the last hour of playing on Sisi: It's big, and it's SLOW. Those of you thinking this will replace a hauler, think again. With Nav 5 and Evasive Maneuvering 2 (I'm a carebear, not a PvP'er), I get an Inertia Modifier of 0.1296, not much better than a freighter. At 0 M/s, and aligned to target, takes 50 seconds (+/- 2 seconds) to get into warp. Fit an MWD and activate it for one possibly two cycles. You align to warp and move to dock a lot faster. And evasive manuevering 5 is just so useful even for a carebear. You shouldn't get into warp faster if you engage the MWD, it will actually make you take longer to do so unless the Orca is an exception or currently it is slightly broken in this respect. However the extra speed will get you to station faster as you said. Where do ideas like these come from? Monkeys in hats?
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.11.03 11:14:00 - [193] Originally by: Cmndr Griff You shouldn't get into warp faster if you engage the MWD, it will actually make you take longer to do so unless the Orca is an exception or currently it is slightly broken in this respect. No, this works for all ships who have align times longer than their MWD activation time. MWD increases max speed, your agility means you increase as a % of max speed / s. When the MWD shuts off your max speed gets lowered, and so you reach 75% quicker. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.11.03 13:52:00 - [194] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: Cmndr Griff You shouldn't get into warp faster if you engage the MWD, it will actually make you take longer to do so unless the Orca is an exception or currently it is slightly broken in this respect. No, this works for all ships who have align times longer than their MWD activation time. MWD increases max speed, your agility means you increase as a % of max speed / s. When the MWD shuts off your max speed gets lowered, and so you reach 75% quicker. The web sling however still works like a champ
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.11.03 14:11:00 - [195] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria The web sling however still works like a champ Works exactly the same way ;) The plus is that it works 'instantly' provided you start at 0 velocity, as at 0 you are aligned in all directions, if you start with a velocity you have to be slowed down in that direction before you can begin moving in the one you want to go :\ Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Revolution Rising Venture Research and Resources New MagnaDyne Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:11:00 - [196] How big is the orca and how big when packaged? VRR Recruitment
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.11.03 16:13:00 - [197] Cycle time is 3 minutes or 6 minutes. Fill Orca with ore / ice, warp and let your three barges mine "ONE" whole cycle without bonus's. Once Orca returns, kill mining lasers and restart to gain bonus's. Easy days, all the benefits of command ship / hauler. Well minus some nice T2 pew pew. :) Crazy thought, I know, but what I will be doing.
JorEl Tarasque	Posted - 2008.11.04 01:26:00 - [198] The only part that really makes no sense to me is why Mining Foreman or Mining Director are needed when they are not needed to fly a Rorqual? The Rorqual is suppose to be the premier "Mining Support" platform. Other than that, I can't wait to try it. I already have my hauler skills maxed so not much of a point for me, just an observation.
Anane Abaim Technologies	Posted - 2008.11.04 01:33:00 - [199] This is a command ship so it requires the leadership skill for what its meant for.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.11.04 07:39:00 - [200] Originally by: Vigilant Cycle time is 3 minutes or 6 minutes. Fill Orca with ore / ice, warp and let your three barges mine "ONE" whole cycle without bonus's. Once Orca returns, kill mining lasers and restart to gain bonus's. Easy days, all the benefits of command ship / hauler. Well minus some nice T2 pew pew. :) You don't actually need to kill the mining lasers to get the bonus to cycle time, since if you activate the link after the cycle has started but before it ends, you actually get more ore instead of a shorter cycle ;) Because it does the calculation based upon how long your lasers were active vs their cycle time X the yield ;) Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Nabukanozor	Posted - 2008.11.04 08:13:00 - [201] Dear CCP, Can you increase calibration to 450, so it will be possible to fit 3 cargo optimisation II rigs A bit more agility should be nice also, as she fly like a load of bricks. Ah yes date of release. Thanks
Teygrias	Posted - 2008.11.04 08:38:00 - [202] Has anyone tested to see if the Orca can use Mission gates?
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:14:00 - [203] Edited by: Jonna Andromedae on 04/11/2008 11:14:31 Nm..
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.11.04 11:17:00 - [204] Originally by: Jonak I've played around with the Orca for a while myself when it was first put on sisi and found it will only eliminate the use of jetcans if both your Orca pilot and hauler are in the same corp. Even in a "Fleet" and the fleet has access to the corp hangar, non-corp members can only put ore/ice into the hangar but not remove it for hauling. Not even Alliance members can from what I tested. Unless they made some recent change, you will have to drop the ore in a jetcan for non-corp hauler to get it. And that's awesome! Macros will never make corporations because then they would be insta decced. Perfect.
Cmndr Griff Opinicus Operations Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.11.04 12:01:00 - [205] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: Cmndr Griff You shouldn't get into warp faster if you engage the MWD, it will actually make you take longer to do so unless the Orca is an exception or currently it is slightly broken in this respect. No, this works for all ships who have align times longer than their MWD activation time. MWD increases max speed, your agility means you increase as a % of max speed / s. When the MWD shuts off your max speed gets lowered, and so you reach 75% quicker. "I stand corrected", said the man in the Orthopaedic shoes. Where do ideas like these come from? Monkeys in hats?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.11.04 12:47:00 - [206] Originally by: Nabukanozor Ah yes date of release. November 11. Secure 3rd party service ■ Veldspar

Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.11.04 15:10:00 - [207] Originally by: Lord Fitz I'm doubting they'll hit a billion isk except maybe for Orca no1. or no2. ;) They probably won't halve in 6-8 weeks though, but obviously they will be alot cheaper. I think even though there will be good demand the supply is going to be pretty enormous. Probably after the second batch come out, the prices will start to move quite abit lower. Probably hitting 500m after just a couple of weeks, at which point alot of people will switch their production lines for research. On the basis of what I think is a far earlier than expected release date, I'm raising what price I expect this to be, and how long it will stay there by quite a bit. Anyone who didn't have the BPOs until after the requirements is announced is only going to be able to pump out a limited number of these. And also give that there was < 7 days notice for the patch many people are going to have build jobs finishing after the expansion releases with parts that they need to begin building their Orcas. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster
Girabaldi D'Protagonist Minmatar In Theory.	Posted - 2008.11.07 12:49:00 - [208] Originally by: Vigilant Cycle time is 3 minutes or 6 minutes. Fill Orca with ore / ice, warp and let your three barges mine "ONE" whole cycle without bonus's. Once Orca returns, kill mining lasers and restart to gain bonus's. Easy days, all the benefits of command ship / hauler. Well minus some nice T2 pew pew. :) Crazy thought, I know, but what I will be doing. With good Orca Pilot and an exhumer pilot with level 5 skills the cycle time will be in the sub 220sec range for the mack and sub 150sec for the Hulk. Take in mind this means the Orca Pilot will have Mining Director 5, Warfare link Spec 5 and the Mining Mindlink in place.. even level 4 orca skill will produce great numbers for cycle time and range.. Just waiting for the silly little book to hit so I can finnish up.. PS.. we are recruiting miners and indies to come work with us.. and I am Orca Qualed once the new book comes out.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.11.07 13:13:00 - [209] Originally by: Lord Fitz Originally by: Lord Fitz I'm doubting they'll hit a billion isk except maybe for Orca no1. or no2. ;) They probably won't halve in 6-8 weeks though, but obviously they will be alot cheaper. I think even though there will be good demand the supply is going to be pretty enormous. Probably after the second batch come out, the prices will start to move quite abit lower. Probably hitting 500m after just a couple of weeks, at which point alot of people will switch their production lines for research. On the basis of what I think is a far earlier than expected release date, I'm raising what price I expect this to be, and how long it will stay there by quite a bit. Anyone who didn't have the BPOs until after the requirements is announced is only going to be able to pump out a limited number of these. And also give that there was < 7 days notice for the patch many people are going to have build jobs finishing after the expansion releases with parts that they need to begin building their Orcas. Even still Fitz, I think all of us can reasonably agree we'll see the price at least down a quarter by one months time. With the new BPO costs on the test server, I'm estimating build cost of around 400m (won't hold forever, I don't expect trit to hold at 3.5 for much longer after patch day) and sales starting in around 800m and holding for around 2 to 4 weeks with a gradual decline over that same period. At and around the 30 day mark I'm expecting quick price plummets, to eventually settle in around all capital margins 10-15% over mineral cost.
Lord Fitz Project Amargosa	Posted - 2008.11.07 15:44:00 - [210] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Even still Fitz, I think all of us can reasonably agree we'll see the price at least down a quarter by one months time. With the new BPO costs on the test server, I'm estimating build cost of around 400m (won't hold forever, I don't expect trit to hold at 3.5 for much longer after patch day) and sales starting in around 800m and holding for around 2 to 4 weeks with a gradual decline over that same period. At and around the 30 day mark I'm expecting quick price plummets, to eventually settle in around all capital margins 10-15% over mineral cost. Oh yes, they will be much cheaper in a month than on release, they will decay in price as per usual. But when the build cost is up, the price will stay a little higher that expected. Personally I'm debating just selling some of the components I have instead of building all the Orcas I had planned, because some of the prices they're going for value an Orca > 1b isk easy :o And that's what some people are willing to pay just to be able to BUILD one on release. I expect Orca's to go for more margin than most capitals for a good 3+ months. Even then I think they will attract a higher margin than freighters due to their higher entry barrier. I expect a 100m premium the norm for quite a while. They could briefly fall under that 3-4 weeks after release as the market starts to saturate, but I expect at that point a lot of people will research / sell BPOs or make copies and cool the market a little. Also many people will be buying more BPOs to start with than they can supply parts for over the long term, so that should slow things down. Getting all those minerals does take a bit of effort so that will start to turn people off as the prices drop. Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans CCP is a greedy money chewing monster

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