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Hannah Tralowski	Posted - 2008.10.24 05:20:00 - [61] Well I for one am looking forward to this being able to almost fly it (with the exception of the new skillbook) i'm looking forward to taking it on a mining op. No more can flipping (not that it happens very often) and the ability to keep the hulks out there with a constant supply of crystals is great. I'll be able to haul the guys hulks out to them, they can travel in shuttles to where ever we're gonna mine. I can mine also if I wanted with mining drones (although i'd have to get closer to the belt). Its also a great looking ship, I can even use it to take all my mission ships out to far off systems in one go without repacking them, or taking one at a time etc. I am a little saddened by 0 turrets but hey, its a great starting template to work from, im sure it'll need tweaking as time goes on as things always do. You know ccp might add a mini refining facility inside Anyhoo, really looking forward to the new expansionand the new ship and other content, i'll be first in the queue waving a fist full of isk to get one of these ships. Fly safe all.
PinkMonkey Dragon	Posted - 2008.10.24 05:36:00 - [62] i for one, will be getting one, even if it looks and does just what it says... what I would have prefered? ability to compress ore... because basicaly this is just a large jet can in a mining op without that... woo. AND, i coudl care less about turret slots... hulk doesnt have them, but i would like the ability for it to mount some strip miners, have the CPU bonus thing... even it it doesnt have ANY mining amount bonii (so it would mine less than even a covetor)... THAT's what i would like.. but then, i think about how badly abused THAT would be by macros... or even my own AFK ice mining.. and think it's a bad idea.. SO, i want one. and just the way it is is fine, but compression would have been great to have. mining, not so much, now that i think on it.
destiny2	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:01:00 - [63] hmm just need mineing foreman level 3 and that new skill and i can fly one :)
Delichon The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:06:00 - [64] Orka would make Destroyers completely useless in their primary role - mission salvaging. Devs, now even giving Destrs a salvaging bonus won't save them, you've buried the ship class, thanks a lot! ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next. EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun
King Rothgar	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:20:00 - [65] This is a very well designed ship I think. It looks as it should IMHO and has appropriate bonuses. As a member of a small corp part of a small high sec alliance, I can say that this ship will be pretty useful in general. Should make high-sec mining ops much simpler (haul the barges out, take care of cans...) and the bonuses to mining should be worthwhile. It's also very reasonable to skill for, basically any hulk pilot can use one with 1 extra skill. Price tag looks about right, being 1/2 frieghter cost on market roughly once things settle down. I was actually hoping for a mini-freighter which this isn't, it's more of a mini-rorq but that works too. Honestly this ship might be more useful in a small high sec corp. I look forward to testing this thing out. I would like to see a couple extra slots added to the highs for command modules (while retaining tractors) but I suppose it is fine as it is. The lack of turret slots is a good thing, the last thing we need is some uber afk mining ship. It will also make moving all my rigged ships around easier too. My corp isn't a commie one so when I buy it, it will come entirely out of my own charicter's pocket. Pretty affordable I think. Was going to buy a frieghter for my alt in the next few days but I think I'll just hold off and get this instead.
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:29:00 - [66] Originally by: Delichon Orka would make Destroyers completely useless in their primary role - mission salvaging. Devs, now even giving Destrs a salvaging bonus won't save them, you've buried the ship class, thanks a lot! what? It's slower than a battleship and only has three highslots, and it's gonna cost like 400 mil. It's not going to overtake the destroyer as a salvage ship lol. Regardless of how far it can reach with it's tractor beam, you either have only two tractors and one salvager or two salvagers and one tractor, it still wont be able to compete with a faster 4/4 destroyer
Brego Tralowski Gallente Forever Night	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:35:00 - [67] I guess i'll start to build more cap components and store them. I am expecting sales to go up a bit
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.10.24 06:59:00 - [68] Originally by: Caelum Mortuos Originally by: Delichon Orka would make Destroyers completely useless in their primary role - mission salvaging. Devs, now even giving Destrs a salvaging bonus won't save them, you've buried the ship class, thanks a lot! what? It's slower than a battleship and only has three highslots, and it's gonna cost like 400 mil. It's not going to overtake the destroyer as a salvage ship lol. Regardless of how far it can reach with it's tractor beam, you either have only two tractors and one salvager or two salvagers and one tractor, it still wont be able to compete with a faster 4/4 destroyer Well I think small gangs could use Orca and destroyer with 8 salvagers. First run the mission and bookmark wrecks. Then warp to these bookmarks with Orca and destroyer. Orca grabs cans with three tractor beams and salvager eats them alive with 8 salvagers
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.24 07:09:00 - [69] Orca's idea is good Mining warfare link is a nice bonus, but the tractors beams are pretty much useless, not because they don't work, but because one jet can equals 27500 m3 - it is all that your Orca can hold. It doesn't matter where you pick your Ore, unless it is compressed you still need a lot of haulers, which constitute 90% of the logistics. Orca must use Ore compression, so that it can mine in remote systems, or give 10x times compressed ores to the haulers... I see no point in glorified tractor beam ship, where any battlecruiser can do the same job
Drevar	Posted - 2008.10.24 07:42:00 - [70] Edited by: Drevar on 24/10/2008 07:44:58 I am kinda puzzled by the Survey bonus....if we aren't mining, what good will a Survey Scanner do? If it was a gang survey bonus maybe it would be okay. When fully boosted a lot of times your Strip miners will reach farther than you can survey.
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2008.10.24 07:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Zeba It's not about enough it's about being viable in the role for the isk spent. Think about the investment you will have to make to get to the 90k m3 mark. Three T2 cargo rigs and 2 T2 cargo expanders with the new skill at level 5 will get you the completely inadaquate said 90k m3 cargo space for about a BILLION ISK. A ship with a command bonus by its very nature should never have to dock or you waste the bonus. Basically this forces a 4 man mining op to turn into a 5 man op as you will still need the hauler to keep up with the 3 hulks especially with the command bonus. Like an earlier poster has mentioned CCP can use a less efficient ore compression rate for the orca to make it only viable for high sec mining. Bam then the normal 30k+ m3 becomes usable and I won't have to go on a holy crusade about the issue. Actually, you can get 89k m3 with the skill at 4 and 3T1 cargo rigs for about 100mil, the skill at 5 gives you 92k m3, and going all out with T2 gives you 100k..... It sits in the belt boosting, and gathering ore together safely at a central collection point, sounds good to me, you can use it to haul if you really want, but I think its best use is to have haulers running back and forward to it. Also, it does not need compression!! All that will happen is we'll end up with hordes and hordes of orcas sitting right outside a station compressing veldspar to send to 0.0 until the cow's come home, that is not the purpose of this ship! Quote: I am kinda puzzled by the Survey bonus....if we aren't mining, what good will a Survey Scanner do? If it was a gang survey bonus maybe it would be okay. When fully boosted a lot of times your Strip miners will reach farther than you can survey. Maximum survey range on the orca is 125km, WTB 125km range strip miner It's given the bonus to the orca itself so the command ship can identify the rocks of interest, seeing as the poor bugger has to sit doing nothing in the belt, same as the rorqual iirc
Mr Kindjal Amarr Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.10.24 08:33:00 - [72] if this will end the need for jet can mining, whats the point of the tractor beams bonus? the only ones which gonna fully use this ship is macro miners in high sec. proper 0.0 alliances use rorqual anyway.
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.10.24 08:41:00 - [73] Here is my take on the Orca. Note that the 120k m3 assumes use of the corporate hanger along with the cargo bay. In a 0.0 scenario, I would see the Rorqual sitting at a POS, compressing up a storm and providing the bonuses while the Orca would be used as the transfer ship to bring the ore from the belts to the POS (approx 120K m3 capacity). If needed, the Orca could provide one of the Links if the Rorqual could not, but I would not really see that as a primary function for the ship. For high-sec the ship would be very nice for mining in systems without stations, provided that it can align in (much!) less time than a freighter. It could provide a bonus or two while in system and be running back and forth to the next(ish) system to drop off the ore in a central location for later pickup by a freighter. It also could be used to bring all of the barges/exhumers to the mining site (only 2 intact ones, the rest repackaged) prior to the event, thus freeing up some logistical time for the participants. The duty that it will perform the most of, I am guessing, is as a mini-freighter. It has a nice sized cargo (120K-ish) and will (I hope) handle much better than a freighter so that you can un-dock and be at a gate in less than three weeks. I suppose that, in a 1.0 system, it could serve as an "Ultimate Overkill AFK Miner" with 5 tec2 mining drones as well. I still think that, unless there are more than 6 miners, it is a wasted mining slot for an op. Since it already takes (essentially) the qualifications to be in a barge/exhumer to fly it, the pilot in the Orca would be better serving the op in a barge/exhumer. That said, my alt will still be getting one as they look nice and I do see some use for it, even if not always for mining.
Zakgram Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.24 09:03:00 - [74] Originally by: Zak'eni Originally by: Crackzilla So we have a new favorite way to afk mine in high sec? Put one laser per roid, wait for roids to pop or for 90k m3 of cargo space to fill. Repeat. No turret slots. Drone bay & implants? Worthwhile for that couple of hours when you're looking at another client?
Akyla Bears Inc Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.10.24 09:05:00 - [75] Interesting shield tank on the Orca on Singularity when I checked it btw. ~12k shield HP (with skills) 600 second recharge (with skills) That's a base 50 hp/s recharge, prolly about 75 dps tank? Now I realize that you don't really want to test this thing in combat, but its still nice to have. Do all capitals have this?
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.10.24 09:41:00 - [76] And a cap that can sustain a xl shield booster :) /Riv
McFly C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.24 10:25:00 - [77] Since apparently someone needs to step in here and clarify some things.... First of all, no point in mounting all three gang links (can only use one) and command processor is out due to the lack of CPU. So 1 link, (recommend the cycle reduction one). Secondly, you can't run a command link if u warp. So warping to and from the belt is a waste of the link. You can only run gang links while sitting still. Third, no freighters can't pull from it. At least not as of this afternoon when I tried on SiSi. So what we have here is a single link running, long tractor toting, jetcan. Haulers will still need to run, be to a station/pos in system or in another station. With only 5 light drones it can only supplement the hulk's own drones. (I was hoping I'd be able to drop 5 sentries with it.) Fourth, any ships smaller than a BC/Command will fit in a courier contract, so u can save those rigs. Although it'd be nice if a lot of things were changed with this ship, I can understand at least some of them on CCP's part. The guy who noted if it could compress u'd see a lot of veld being smashed down for shipment to nullsec. If it could mine on it's own (it actually can very very slowly with mining drones), u'd see it sitting in 1.0 system chewing veld. Ship maintenance array I think needs a boost, mainly because u can only stick up to two Hulk/Covetor in it, 2.6 Mackinaw/Retriever or 4 Skiff/Procurer... On manufacturing and these things being up on market you will see a major Price Gouge, as with all ships released in eve, they will need to be built first, then on that week following the patch all of these will be coming out of the cooker and going up for ridiculous isk. Why? Because demand will be enormous and supply will be minimal. Please remember the prices of the first Jump Freighters, Rorquals, Black Ops, Marauders and etc in the past.... So yes I think CCP need to rethink some of the things they've set in motion with this ship. I think the drone bw should be 125mbit. It's bigger than a Battleship and thus should be able to fit 5 heavy drones in my opinion. Sure that's the same they give the Dreads, Rorqs, and some BSes... but I think it deserves to be able to plop down 5 sentries. There's no reason a thorax should have more drone capability than this thing. Oh and BPOs will be seeded in DCM stations in empire from what CCP has said. So \o/ no death runs out to Outer Ring... (had an alt out there already....) --McFly--
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2008.10.24 10:33:00 - [78] I'd agree on the ship bay, If it's supposed to be used for rigged ship transportation too, being able to transport BS, or a couple of BCs would be useful. Also kinda gutted that it can't fit a freight can, or maximum sized courier contract when max expanded. Still pretty cool tho
MenanceWhite Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.10.24 10:33:00 - [79] Edited by: MenanceWhite on 24/10/2008 10:34:03 Bohoo, orca was supposed to fill the gap between hauler and capital - HOWEVER it still has those industrial skill requirements. Which means that us non-industrial chars still will have a gap between hauler and freighter, since we're not going to spend that time training up those skills. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Ensar'da Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs Hephaestus Rising	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:08:00 - [80] oh mcfly First of all, no point in mounting all three gang links (can only use one) and command processor is out due to the lack of CPU. So 1 link, (recommend the cycle reduction one). Secondly, you can't run a command link if u warp. So warping to and from the belt is a waste of the link. You can only run gang links while sitting still. What u talking about; this ship though not on the bonuses atm will have the gang link reduction wich is about 50 cpu per gang link; so 150 there for all 3; 150 for command processers; to mount 3 ganglinks you will need 2; equaling 450 cpu; base is 430 so with electronics 5 your laughing and will easily be able to mount all of them with cpu to spare (Which I would like to see a can use 3 gang links role like other command ships damnation eos e.c.t). And true u can't warp with gang links ur not stationary u can move about the belt; this isn't the rorqual where u need to seige to get the bonuses. And another q any one been on test server have you looked at the bpo build and part requirements as I will be getting a bpo so want to know if any extra that i may need that I don't have interms of cap parts which this gona need to be built
Yong Qi	Posted - 2008.10.24 11:16:00 - [81] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: motomysz God, you just can't give some people enough, can you? It's not about enough it's about being viable in the role for the isk spent. Think about the investment you will have to make to get to the 90k m3 mark. Three T2 cargo rigs and 2 T2 cargo expanders with the new skill at level 5 will get you the completely inadaquate said 90k m3 cargo space for about a BILLION ISK. A ship with a command bonus by its very nature should never have to dock or you waste the bonus. Basically this forces a 4 man mining op to turn into a 5 man op as you will still need the hauler to keep up with the 3 hulks especially with the command bonus. Like an earlier poster has mentioned CCP can use a less efficient ore compression rate for the orca to make it only viable for high sec mining. Bam then the normal 30k+ m3 becomes usable and I won't have to go on a holy crusade about the issue. Originally by: Brigitte Helm Just one thought that occured to me. With a corp hanger, can a Freighter load up from it ? If this is true then my argument is /null and gimme my ORCA! I Love you. Frankly, I love seeing smart ideas like this.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:01:00 - [82] I have seen people posting about the lack of slots on the Orca, but the only things you need to fit are: High: mining foreman link - laser optimization mining foreman link - mining laser field enhancement tractor beam I Mid: Something... Low: Choosing between 2 Cargo exapander II's and the possibility of giving the 40k+ stucture 60% resists with a DCU II. What I miss in this ship is the limitation the Rorqual has about only carrying Indies and Barges/Exhumers in its ship hangar. And I miss the Cloning Vat Bay/Ore Compressing. They would make this more worth the 1.4 bil pricetag I noticed higher up this thread. The only problem I have with the ship is that a barge pilot needs to pilot it... and does the increased gang-boost justify 1 less barge in the field. Or is the comfort of having your ore in a safe place enough justification. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:02:00 - [83] It costs 400 million, the 1.4 billion came from someone who likes you to also buy the bpo.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:06:00 - [84] Originally by: Furb Killer It costs 400 million, the 1.4 billion came from someone who likes you to also buy the bpo. It is 400 mil in building cost atm, no way you can get it from the market for that price.
Lustralis	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:29:00 - [85] Originally by: Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Originally by: Furb Killer It costs 400 million, the 1.4 billion came from someone who likes you to also buy the bpo. It is 400 mil in building cost atm, no way you can get it from the market for that price. If that's the base build price, you should see people with researched BPO's in future producing and selling for that amount. Initially of course it'll cost you 750m , but I don't expect the gouging to last long as every manufacturer will be pumping them out, such has been the high expectation generated in the indy player base.
Aurora Serenity	Posted - 2008.10.24 12:41:00 - [86] Why the hell does THIS ship has a ship maint.bay? why ?! dammit! Even a freakin' Jump freighter hasnt got one...now all those carebears can put their rigged ships in that thing and mine the whole eve galaxy (high sec) empty. Now who is putting balance to what?
Jonathon Iceflaster	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:33:00 - [87] Greetings, I am a lone miner in empire space. In general the Orca hits the spot. It has transport capability in the 100k range reducing ore pickups 70%, drones to cleanup npcs during can pickups and protection from ligher class ships in freight runs, and enough ship space to dock a filled Iteron 5 for extra cargo. With it I can move the only thing I really care about, tritanium. Now I could quibble about an extra low slot for safety, or boosting the ship bay space so that I can carry a barge and a battleship class ship. I would rank this ship as "good", that's the highest rating I've ever given an Eve ship.
Mytzso	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:34:00 - [88] When can I buy it? I like..
Dracthera	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:39:00 - [89] Originally by: MenanceWhite Edited by: MenanceWhite on 24/10/2008 10:34:03 Bohoo, orca was supposed to fill the gap between hauler and capital - HOWEVER it still has those industrial skill requirements. Which means that us non-industrial chars still will have a gap between hauler and freighter, since we're not going to spend that time training up those skills. Well, the fact that it fill a gap between two industrial ships should be a clue that it's still an industrial ship. If you have no industrial skills whatsoever right now, then you don't need an Orca in the first place, so it shouldn't be an issue.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.24 13:57:00 - [90] Edited by: Opertone on 24/10/2008 13:58:15 the guy who says that Orcas will be crunching ore at the undock point... what is the point exactly? 10 times compression? haul the ORE to null sec and refine in semi efficient outpost? no, you refine the ore to the minerals, then haul them to null sec... or you refine the ore to the minerals and convert it in auto targeting computer, the thing which compresses tritanium to 40 000:1 10 times compression only helps to haul the ore more efficiently it is by no means superior to clean minerals. 400 mill ship? wardecs? sharing bonuses in the same fleet? Tractor beam on members outside of your corporation and not in your fleet? You will be sharing the war decs and and the gang bonuses all together. Or your entire mining fleet needs to be in NPC corporations, so not a single member can be war decced, but you still can pull the cans from fleet members Do you realize what gameplay this instrument promotes? Not forming a corporation and sharing a private chat channel. Orca will not add to anything without 10x Ore compression and not mining oriented corporate hangar.

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