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MenanceWhite Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.10.24 15:08:00 - [91] Originally by: Dracthera Well, the fact that it fill a gap between two industrial ships should be a clue that it's still an industrial ship. If you have no industrial skills whatsoever right now, then you don't need an Orca in the first place, so it shouldn't be an issue. However, disregarding the tractor bonii it's basicly a hauler that's between your normal hauler and freighter. Haulers are freighters are more "general" than "industrial" ships, since you know - anyone could have the need to move their stuff regardless if it's modules and loot, minerals, or pos fuel. My point is that almost every non-industrial char can fly haulers and alot of them can fly freighters, however we won't be able to fly this thing which is basicly there to fill the gap between hauler and freighter.
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.10.24 15:30:00 - [92] Originally by: Opertone Do you realize what gameplay this instrument promotes? Not forming a corporation and sharing a private chat channel. You are wrong. Forming a corp and keeping it safe whilemning will be the result. And any smart corp knows how to handle suvh things.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.24 18:51:00 - [93] oh, do you mean having a falcon or two? then docking up, then disbanding the corporation? or waiting the 7 day period out? how do you protect 400 mill capital ship inside a 20 man strong mining corporation? To use the ship, you need to be sitting openly in the belt... expect daily wardecs from all sorts of space pirates. And you do not want to have a PVP wing, who are bound to the carebears 24/7. The best you can is not to join a player owned corp, then if you do, you absolutely need a falcon alt. It can set the Orca free so you can dock, leave corp and quickly make a new one. Orca serves the role of glorified tractor beam ship... with 100 000 m3 total space, which means 5 hulks work for 15 minutes or roughly 6 cycles... then what? So, in fact Orca is a glorified Giant Secure Cargo Container. It doesn't help your logistics at all, it creates more hassle about protecting the Orca, you need 5 PVP players to watch it all the time.
Dr Takiyoma Traders Industrialists and Miners of EVE R.H.I.N.O.	Posted - 2008.10.24 23:56:00 - [94] Edited by: Dr Takiyoma on 24/10/2008 23:56:39 Originally by: Opertone blahs Sorry, huh?
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:08:00 - [95] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 25/10/2008 00:08:33 Originally by: Opertone oh, do you mean having a falcon or two? then docking up, then disbanding the corporation? or waiting the 7 day period out? how do you protect 400 mill capital ship inside a 20 man strong mining corporation? To use the ship, you need to be sitting openly in the belt... expect daily wardecs from all sorts of space pirates. And you do not want to have a PVP wing, who are bound to the carebears 24/7. The best you can is not to join a player owned corp, then if you do, you absolutely need a falcon alt. It can set the Orca free so you can dock, leave corp and quickly make a new one. Orca serves the role of glorified tractor beam ship... with 100 000 m3 total space, which means 5 hulks work for 15 minutes or roughly 6 cycles... then what? So, in fact Orca is a glorified Giant Secure Cargo Container. It doesn't help your logistics at all, it creates more hassle about protecting the Orca, you need 5 PVP players to watch it all the time. Several things. First, the gankability of the orca is overrated in high sec. Sure, you're worth popping if you're flying with a bunch of hulks in your cargo bay. But deployed on the field? You'd have up to 130k m3 or so of ore (remember the 30k m3 in the corporate hangar). Not much point aside from bragging rights. As a war target, it's much less interesting that the 5 hulks it is supporting. Even without a single defense mod, it can passive shieldtank all high sec rats. And only idiots would fly an orca (or mine at all) during a war. Hence, there is no need to protect an orca. If someone wants to suicide gank it, then they'll probably do so even if you have falcon alts flying around. If you're really having trouble with suiciding gankers taking out your orcas, then fit a damage control II. Doubles the cost of taking out your ship. The problem of defending an orca is vastly exaggerated especially given that corp freighters autopilot in high sec all the time. Second, haul with another orca. A single orca (with a station in system) should be able to haul for a dozen or so hulks especially given the first orca gathers the ore in one place.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.25 00:53:00 - [96] it is a capital ship, which costs around 550 mill with decent fittings now it needs to be in a player Corporation... piwats see your corporation, with Orca in hi sec belt, they declare war on you, you have 24 hour period. What do you do? Hire mercenaries for 550 mill to protect the Orca? Stop mining until the war dec wears off? Leave the corporation and Join NPC corporation? Leave corporation and make a new one? Recruit 5 PVPers and request them to sit at the boring capital 24/7? Ninja mine with a falcon support? Orcas will not be left without attention, unless the pilots remain in NPC corporations
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:42:00 - [97] Sorry but few corps go around and war dec miners. You are just screaming fire Originally by: Shadarle I notice a lot of people who are very bad at playing the market tend to want CCP to step in and remove the competition from the market so they don't continue coming in last place.[/qu
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.10.25 01:46:00 - [98] Originally by: Opertone it is a capital ship, which costs around 550 mill with decent fittings now it needs to be in a player Corporation... piwats see your corporation, with Orca in hi sec belt, they declare war on you, you have 24 hour period. What do you do? Hire mercenaries for 550 mill to protect the Orca? Stop mining until the war dec wears off? Leave the corporation and Join NPC corporation? Leave corporation and make a new one? Recruit 5 PVPers and request them to sit at the boring capital 24/7? Ninja mine with a falcon support? Orcas will not be left without attention, unless the pilots remain in NPC corporations What could they gain from attacking an Orca? Sure a few people would do it for lolz but it's not like they're going to be faction fitted and dropping millions in loot, all they would get is a survey scanner, tractor beam and some expanders.
Oetaka Omega Engineering Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.25 04:04:00 - [99] i agree about the ship needing a small amount of compression ability. as for it being a gank magnit it not as bad as being stated
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.10.25 04:14:00 - [100] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson agreed. honestly, i could go for a hisec carrier or something of the sort, and dont say buy a domi cuz it cant fill the support role without killing its own tank like a carrier. Um, the Orca is a HiSec carrier. It's got the seperate cargo hold, corp hangar, and ship hangar like a carrier, you can refit in space at one like a carrier. It doesn't have the awesome tank, DPS, or remote reps like a carrier, but it looks like it will still be very capable given that it is essentially an overgrown industrial ship. Yeah, it's totally a carrier...except for, well, the fact that it can't carry fighters. If it can't use fighters, it's not a carrier. Carrying fighters is kind of a defining characteristic of a *carrier*.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.10.25 09:32:00 - [101] Originally by: Kyra Felann Originally by: Bronson Hughes Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson agreed. honestly, i could go for a hisec carrier or something of the sort, and dont say buy a domi cuz it cant fill the support role without killing its own tank like a carrier. Um, the Orca is a HiSec carrier. It's got the seperate cargo hold, corp hangar, and ship hangar like a carrier, you can refit in space at one like a carrier. It doesn't have the awesome tank, DPS, or remote reps like a carrier, but it looks like it will still be very capable given that it is essentially an overgrown industrial ship. Yeah, it's totally a carrier...except for, well, the fact that it can't carry fighters. If it can't use fighters, it's not a carrier. Carrying fighters is kind of a defining characteristic of a *carrier. And we really need a ship carrying fighters in highsec NOT*. Imaos
Imaos	Posted - 2008.10.25 09:44:00 - [102] Originally by: Opertone Orca's idea is good Mining warfare link is a nice bonus, but the tractors beams are pretty much useless, not because they don't work, but because one jet can equals 27500 m3 - it is all that your Orca can hold. It doesn't matter where you pick your Ore, unless it is compressed you still need a lot of haulers, which constitute 90% of the logistics. Orca must use Ore compression, so that it can mine in remote systems, or give 10x times compressed ores to the haulers... I see no point in glorified tractor beam ship, where any battlecruiser can do the same job I just picked this post out of many. Has somebody noticed that there is 30k cargo + 30k corporate hangar? It will make it easier for the haulers. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.
Lustralis	Posted - 2008.10.25 09:50:00 - [103] Originally by: Imaos Originally by: Opertone Orca's idea is good Mining warfare link is a nice bonus, but the tractors beams are pretty much useless, not because they don't work, but because one jet can equals 27500 m3 - it is all that your Orca can hold. It doesn't matter where you pick your Ore, unless it is compressed you still need a lot of haulers, which constitute 90% of the logistics. Orca must use Ore compression, so that it can mine in remote systems, or give 10x times compressed ores to the haulers... I see no point in glorified tractor beam ship, where any battlecruiser can do the same job I just picked this post out of many. Has somebody noticed that there is 30k cargo + 30k corporate hangar? It will make it easier for the haulers. Imaos If you max its cargo cap to 90k (at huge expense), it'll still only be able to hold 3 x jetcan worth of ore. I don't see this as being much of a benefit given that 3 trips with a hauler in the absence of the orca is much cheaper and not hugely time consuming. Also I don't think the fact it can carry 2 Hulks is any benefit whatsoever in high sec. You're generally 1 jump away from a station anywhere, so why would you go to the trouble of loading up the orca and heading to it in shuttles?! You'd be better off fielding 3 x hulks without the orca, or 2 hulks with 1 guy hauling in a traditional indy. I was excited about this ship but I'm struggling to see the point now the stats are out!
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:04:00 - [104] Originally by: Opertone it is a capital ship, which costs around 550 mill with decent fittings now it needs to be in a player Corporation... piwats see your corporation, with Orca in hi sec belt, they declare war on you, you have 24 hour period. What do you do? Hire mercenaries for 550 mill to protect the Orca? Stop mining until the war dec wears off? Leave the corporation and Join NPC corporation? Leave corporation and make a new one? Recruit 5 PVPers and request them to sit at the boring capital 24/7? Ninja mine with a falcon support? Orcas will not be left without attention, unless the pilots remain in NPC corporations Get a grip. 24 hours is plenty of time to dock your orca and your hulks. Then fight or hide. Only a fool flies a fat, defenseless target in time of war.
Imaos	Posted - 2008.10.25 10:10:00 - [105] Originally by: Lustralis Originally by: Imaos Originally by: Opertone Orca's idea is good Mining warfare link is a nice bonus, but the tractors beams are pretty much useless, not because they don't work, but because one jet can equals 27500 m3 - it is all that your Orca can hold. It doesn't matter where you pick your Ore, unless it is compressed you still need a lot of haulers, which constitute 90% of the logistics. Orca must use Ore compression, so that it can mine in remote systems, or give 10x times compressed ores to the haulers... I see no point in glorified tractor beam ship, where any battlecruiser can do the same job I just picked this post out of many. Has somebody noticed that there is 30k cargo + 30k corporate hangar? It will make it easier for the haulers. Imaos If you max its cargo cap to 90k (at huge expense), it'll still only be able to hold 3 x jetcan worth of ore. I don't see this as being much of a benefit given that 3 trips with a hauler in the absence of the orca is much cheaper and not hugely time consuming. Also I don't think the fact it can carry 2 Hulks is any benefit whatsoever in high sec. You're generally 1 jump away from a station anywhere, so why would you go to the trouble of loading up the orca and heading to it in shuttles?! You'd be better off fielding 3 x hulks without the orca, or 2 hulks with 1 guy hauling in a traditional indy. I was excited about this ship but I'm struggling to see the point now the stats are out! I said corporate hangar and not ship maintenance bay. Imaos
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.25 17:36:00 - [106] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 25/10/2008 17:37:51 Edited by: Tasko Pal on 25/10/2008 17:37:30 Originally by: Lustralis If you max its cargo cap to 90k (at huge expense), it'll still only be able to hold 3 x jetcan worth of ore. I don't see this as being much of a benefit given that 3 trips with a hauler in the absence of the orca is much cheaper and not hugely time consuming. Also I don't think the fact it can carry 2 Hulks is any benefit whatsoever in high sec. You're generally 1 jump away from a station anywhere, so why would you go to the trouble of loading up the orca and heading to it in shuttles?! You'd be better off fielding 3 x hulks without the orca, or 2 hulks with 1 guy hauling in a traditional indy. Several remarks here. It's cargo capacity actually maxes at 100,951 m3. With 3 t1 cargo riggings and such, which aren't very expensive for a 500 mil or so ship, you can carry 92,713 m3. The corporation hangar carries an addition 30k m3 (or maybe 40k m3, if they go ahead with a boost). That's almost 4.5 jet cans worth just for the 122k m3. If you use a second orca, you can haul more than 4 jet cans worth with every trip. One orca is worth something like 4-5 well skilled and fitted indy haulers. Whether it's worth one less hulk is up to you. Also the orca's ability to collect cans and its corp hangar simplifies transfer of ore to haulers. That saves time for your haulers who get more hauled. Third, the ability to carry two rigged hulks does simplify corp ops. Suppose one of your ten man crew, Bob has his hulk 20 jumps away by high sec. Does it make sense for Bob to fly his hulk all the way to you when you have two hulks on hand? He probably can take low sec shortcuts in his shuttle, cutting even more time off his travels. It helps the logistics and saves time for your corpmates.
Alex Ley Caldari Shadow Industrial Solutions Shadow Rock Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.25 20:55:00 - [107] Could anyone let me know the exact skills needed to fly this think? Also I agree with what a lot of people are saying about the compresion, I think it's a MUST!!! And four high slots too.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.25 21:36:00 - [108] how many orcas do we need for one mining op? one for bonus and tractor, one for hauling... sweet 1,1 bill isk to mine vedlspar belts (550 per fitted ship) they see 2 Orcas in one mining corporation, sweet, now lets wardec them as it is cheap fun and exciting (new corporations get harassed in eve very often, crime and punishment for reference) You are war decced, you hire a wing of PvPers, after 5 hours the PVP wing wants to have life with no Orcas to babysit. You may want another 5 PvPers... You realize that it takes you nowhere, you sit in station for about two days. Then your CEO ejects you from current corp and you quickly make a new one to avoid war dec and griefing. You learn to Ninja mine with Orca and no player owned corporations, you have 10 members in NPC corps, just like every macro team now has... at his point it is funny... What do the goonswarm and Red get by killing single carrier in low sec? They have fun, and they rather jump their dreadnaughts and stuff, despite the fact that it may even be unfit and contain no loot. Now freshly formed corps get decced every day, forcing their members to jump corporations to actually be able to play this game. Why won't Goonswarm be interested in paying a visit?
Dictum Factum Gemini Sun Violent-Tendencies	Posted - 2008.10.26 02:54:00 - [109] Originally by: Opertone how many orcas do we need for one mining op? one for bonus and tractor, one for hauling... sweet 1,1 bill isk to mine vedlspar belts (550 per fitted ship) they see 2 Orcas in one mining corporation, sweet, now lets wardec them as it is cheap fun and exciting (new corporations get harassed in eve very often, crime and punishment for reference) You are war decced, you hire a wing of PvPers, after 5 hours the PVP wing wants to have life with no Orcas to babysit. You may want another 5 PvPers... You realize that it takes you nowhere, you sit in station for about two days. Then your CEO ejects you from current corp and you quickly make a new one to avoid war dec and griefing. You learn to Ninja mine with Orca and no player owned corporations, you have 10 members in NPC corps, just like every macro team now has... at his point it is funny... What do the goonswarm and Red get by killing single carrier in low sec? They have fun, and they rather jump their dreadnaughts and stuff, despite the fact that it may even be unfit and contain no loot. Now freshly formed corps get decced every day, forcing their members to jump corporations to actually be able to play this game. Why won't Goonswarm be interested in paying a visit? Quoted for WTF. I know less than you think I do. Gemini Sun is Recruiting
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.26 03:07:00 - [110] Originally by: Opertone how many orcas do we need for one mining op? one for bonus and tractor, one for hauling... sweet 1,1 bill isk to mine vedlspar belts (550 per fitted ship) they see 2 Orcas in one mining corporation, sweet, now lets wardec them as it is cheap fun and exciting (new corporations get harassed in eve very often, crime and punishment for reference) You are war decced, you hire a wing of PvPers, after 5 hours the PVP wing wants to have life with no Orcas to babysit. You may want another 5 PvPers... You realize that it takes you nowhere, you sit in station for about two days. Then your CEO ejects you from current corp and you quickly make a new one to avoid war dec and griefing. If you're hardcore enough that you'll mine when a wardec is ongoing, then you're hardcore enough for several orcas. Your mining gang is also your pvp gang. If you're complaining about spending a few billion in pursuit of the almighty veld roid, then you just don't get mining. Quote: Now freshly formed corps get decced every day, forcing their members to jump corporations to actually be able to play this game. Why won't Goonswarm be interested in paying a visit? Just mine in minmatar space where Allah approves. I feel like I'm holding your hand or something.
F4LC0N	Posted - 2008.10.26 09:23:00 - [111] fully expanded it should be able to haul 40 Giant Secure Container which would give it 156k m3
Krylon Rhae	Posted - 2008.10.26 09:42:00 - [112] Originally by: F4LC0N fully expanded it should be able to haul 40 Giant Secure Container which would give it 156k m3 Who on eath wants to take the time to open 40 GTC? Not me. I removed all my GTC's from my Iteron V because it slowed me down on the turn around time. Your round trip time after opening 40 cans would be horrendous.
CaptianBlack Minmatar We Brake For Nobody.	Posted - 2008.10.26 09:43:00 - [113] is it April already !!!... no ore compression !!!.. so the orca is an empire carrier, that can't do much.. = a bigger hauler than we already have.. and so many people were looking foward to this ship, o'well.. back to dropping a pos & using a freighter to haul my ore out of system
Lustralis	Posted - 2008.10.26 10:44:00 - [114] Originally by: Krylon Rhae Originally by: F4LC0N fully expanded it should be able to haul 40 Giant Secure Container which would give it 156k m3 Who on eath wants to take the time to open 40 GTC? Not me. I removed all my GTC's from my Iteron V because it slowed me down on the turn around time. Your round trip time after opening 40 cans would be horrendous. Spot on. Actually you can open the cans in your Occator or Ity V on the warp into field but it's just so "clicky" that you'll get RSI during a long op (opening cans, dragging, clicking partial transfer, going back to station, dragging and dropping, ERGH). It's so much simpler doing 1 extra trip without the added UI harassment.
Leandro Salazar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2008.10.26 10:47:00 - [115] Now if the ship bay was big enough to haul rigged battleships... 550K instead of 400K and I would agree it is decent. And of course drop Mining Barge req to 4 and add something that hauler pilots need (sucks that Industrials are racial I guess...) And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.10.26 11:14:00 - [116] A war has been declared on your mining corporation, your Orca is in danger you join NPC corporation, upon which war can not be declared. Your ex corporate members are all in NPC corps now, you have a private chat channel, you mine outside of player owned corporation. Orca is too attractive not get the war declaration. To avoid war declarations all people that previously could be in one corporation now have to be in NPC corps and share single intel channel. If you buy an Orca, you will be forced out of your corporation. this clarifies the point
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.26 11:29:00 - [117] No it still isnt clear and it is still random stuff. Why exactly would you get wardecced with an orca (there will probably be MANY orcas out there), and wouldnt you get wardecced with 4-5 hulks which cost the same. Or one freighter which costs 2-3 times more. (and no not all freighter pilots are in npc corporations).
Caelum Mortuos Gallente Zero G Research and Development	Posted - 2008.10.26 11:35:00 - [118] Agreeing with the guy above me.. How many freighters are there in player corporations.....hundreds. How many corps get wardecced each day so your freighter can be killed? There will be some but not nearly as much as you seem to think. If people don't do it for expensive freighters, why are they going to do it for a cheaper orca? Also, seeing as we're in the ship and modules section, how's it looking for fitting up? Anybody tried polycarbs and nano yet? oh wait....
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.27 03:39:00 - [119] Originally by: Caelum MortuosAlso, seeing as we're in the ship and modules section, how's it looking for fitting up? Anybody tried polycarbs and nano yet? oh wait....[:p Nano-nerf aside, one reason I can see for not even trying is that this ship's job is to warp to a belt, scan it, and stay put :) It only needs to move for the sake of turning to align for warp!
Cyb3r Thr3at Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.27 07:23:00 - [120] I'm personally training a new char on new account fer the Orca.. oh.. & fer anyone doin the same.. Orca 1 has been taken! :)

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