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so who thinks ccp went to far with missles.

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SirMoric Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.13 03:06:00 - [631] Originally by: Nalgrim earlier you just fitted a missileboat with the largest missiles and kill everything I really do my best not to laugh here I tried, and failed at that. Come on everyone, just admit you're jealous that Caldari was the best PvE race... And you have a hatred against cloaking Ravens in 0.0. Guess what? They're still there. Now you just have to deal with cloaking BS of other races too. And if you catch these, they're not as easy a prey as a Raven. rgds
Smelts	Posted - 2008.12.14 05:25:00 - [632] Edited by: Smelts on 14/12/2008 05:29:23 Please explain the logic behind having long range, long delay to hit weapon system relying on a 10km range module (webber) before they can hit for more than half their full damage (at ANY range.. target can be 10m or 150km, speed determines mitigation). Only rockets and assaults require you to have your ship inside 10kms to hit.. all other missiles work at far longer ranges. lights, heavy, cruise and torpedo all now told to get inside 10km to web a target to do any damage worth mentioning. Seriously. Please explain this logic. This is the one and only reason CCP failed so spectacularly in this missile nerf. Its sheer idiocy. Target painters.. Ok, those are alright as a 60'ish km range painter does cover the max range of all but cruise missiles..and shooting farther than 60km does call for a bit of mitigation. However, we still do not see a balance as to WHY missiles, which have a very high delayed time to hit the target.. have such a dramatic damage mitigation. We still do not see why missiles, which can be intercepted in flight by defender missiles.. which can be 100% destroyed by medium and large smartbombs (by ANY cruiser+ sized ship) ... receive so many penalties. Seriously.. missiles now have too many drawbacks, too little reasons to use them in pvp. (nobody cares about PVE as any imbecile can kill the non-AI equipped 'rats') Finally, why is it that missiles have an almost binary damage mitigation compared to turrets? Missiles coming at you? Switch on the AB. As long as you fly more than 200ms (speed reached very quickly even on a BS) the missiles will do laughable damage to your ship. Missiles coming at you? Switch on the smartbomb when missile is 15km away. Smartbombs will kill ANY missile inside its radius... be it one missile or 1000 missiles fired at it in a volley. How come turrets do not receive this kind of mitigation? What button must I press to receive instant 50% damage reduction no matter the speed or the range of my attacker? What module must I practice my timing on & master it in 10 minutes to stop all incoming turret fire? and before I haz my cheezburger, when will turrets receive a delay to hit nerf so I can align and warp my ship out before I get hit by the first or second volley?
Bohoba Caldari HolyKnights	Posted - 2008.12.14 06:59:00 - [633] Originally by: Smelts Edited by: Smelts on 14/12/2008 05:29:23 and before I haz my cheezburger, when will turrets receive a delay to hit nerf so I can align and warp my ship out before I get hit by the first or second volley? I like how you put that and now I am hungry for a cheesburge :) ....................... 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
ZenSun Total Mayhem. Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.12.14 09:42:00 - [634] BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA... another *****y whine thread, train pulse lasers newwwbssss. nuff said m'kay? woops
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.14 09:42:00 - [635] Originally by: Smelts Edited by: Smelts on 14/12/2008 05:29:23 Please explain the logic behind having long range, long delay to hit weapon system relying on a 10km range module (webber) before they can hit for more than half their full damage (at ANY range.. target can be 10m or 150km, speed determines mitigation). Only rockets and assaults require you to have your ship inside 10kms to hit.. all other missiles work at far longer ranges. lights, heavy, cruise and torpedo all now told to get inside 10km to web a target to do any damage worth mentioning. Seriously. Please explain this logic. This is the one and only reason CCP failed so spectacularly in this missile nerf. Its sheer idiocy. Target painters.. Ok, those are alright as a 60'ish km range painter does cover the max range of all but cruise missiles..and shooting farther than 60km does call for a bit of mitigation. However, we still do not see a balance as to WHY missiles, which have a very high delayed time to hit the target.. have such a dramatic damage mitigation. We still do not see why missiles, which can be intercepted in flight by defender missiles.. which can be 100% destroyed by medium and large smartbombs (by ANY cruiser+ sized ship) ... receive so many penalties. Seriously.. missiles now have too many drawbacks, too little reasons to use them in pvp. (nobody cares about PVE as any imbecile can kill the non-AI equipped 'rats') Finally, why is it that missiles have an almost binary damage mitigation compared to turrets? Missiles coming at you? Switch on the AB. As long as you fly more than 200ms (speed reached very quickly even on a BS) the missiles will do laughable damage to your ship. Missiles coming at you? Switch on the smartbomb when missile is 15km away. Smartbombs will kill ANY missile inside its radius... be it one missile or 1000 missiles fired at it in a volley. How come turrets do not receive this kind of mitigation? What button must I press to receive instant 50% damage reduction no matter the speed or the range of my attacker? What module must I practice my timing on & master it in 10 minutes to stop all incoming turret fire? and before I haz my cheezburger, when will turrets receive a delay to hit nerf so I can align and warp my ship out before I get hit by the first or second volley? Because turret damage can be mitigated down to ZERO. Not 50%, not 40%, but an entire big fat nothing at all. Just by going in a circle. People rarely fit a smart bomb or defender missile, and I'd go ahead and say they do it far less than they fit a tracking disruptor. Suck a duck and stop complaining.
SPQRMocton Minmatar Hand Of Bethke	Posted - 2008.12.14 11:11:00 - [636] I fly Caldari , and since you hate the new rules , haz your stuff can I ? And no I don't think they went to far (try using some drones) Fly reckless and take chances..............it's more fun
Ban Dwagon	Posted - 2008.12.14 11:23:00 - [637] I think CCP went too far on the missile nerf. Cruise missiles won't hit bs for full damage. Stealth bombers suck even more. Missiles are an even worse option for pvp than they were before, and they were terrible for pvp.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.12.14 11:55:00 - [638] Originally by: Karille Because turret damage can be mitigated down to ZERO. Not 50%, not 40%, but an entire big fat nothing at all. Just by going in a circle. People rarely fit a smart bomb or defender missile, and I'd go ahead and say they do it far less than they fit a tracking disruptor. Suck a duck and stop complaining. Transversal works both ways m'kay? If that's all you can come up with to counter those arguments, just stop trying. "I have to maneuver my ship to to win", jeez. Throwing transversal around in these arguments like it's an "I win"-button is honestly pathetic. All you have to do is freckin' look around you when you're out flying, and you can see what's King of the Hill in PvP. It ****ing ain't missiles. People seem to be doing just fine with transversal. I don't hear "OMGZ he's ORBITING me" anywhere
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.14 12:30:00 - [639] Originally by: Pohbis Originally by: Karille Because turret damage can be mitigated down to ZERO. Not 50%, not 40%, but an entire big fat nothing at all. Just by going in a circle. People rarely fit a smart bomb or defender missile, and I'd go ahead and say they do it far less than they fit a tracking disruptor. Suck a duck and stop complaining. Transversal works both ways m'kay? If that's all you can come up with to counter those arguments, just stop trying. "I have to maneuver my ship to to win", jeez. Throwing transversal around in these arguments like it's an "I win"-button is honestly pathetic. All you have to do is freckin' look around you when you're out flying, and you can see what's King of the Hill in PvP. It ****ing ain't missiles. People seem to be doing just fine with transversal. I don't hear "OMGZ he's ORBITING me" anywhere On the contrary, people complain about tracking all the time.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.14 12:37:00 - [640] 3 weeks ago called...they want their threadnought back!

Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2008.12.14 12:40:00 - [641] Originally by: AkRoYeR 3 weeks ago called...they want their threadnought back! QFT
Toshiro Khan Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.14 13:15:00 - [642] I wonder if there are days when someone at CCP regrets them changing the Ravens bonuses from it being a railgun platform to a missle platform.
Vicious Merquise	Posted - 2008.12.14 13:40:00 - [643] BOO on nerfing da missile cause I'am CALDARI and upset at this like all my other CALDARI comrades are ya to far da went ect...Let my brothers go and what not.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.12.14 14:04:00 - [644] Well, not everything changed with the patch is pure evil. But some things are just stupid. Rockets don't hit their usual targets for enough damage, and the concept for cruise missiles is just stupid. Due to the need of target painting, they have added optimal and falloff to cruise missiles. But the damage is as delayed as before the patch. But I guess cruise missile snipers where that overpowered, the Devs had to do something. I mean nobody even thought about using a turret sniper in fleets.
SPQRMocton Minmatar Hand Of Bethke	Posted - 2008.12.14 23:56:00 - [645] Originally by: Karl Luckner Well, not everything changed with the patch is pure evil. But some things are just stupid. Rockets don't hit their usual targets for enough damage, and the concept for cruise missiles is just stupid. Due to the need of target painting, they have added optimal and falloff to cruise missiles. But the damage is as delayed as before the patch. But I guess cruise missile snipers where that overpowered, the Devs had to do something. I mean nobody even thought about using a turret sniper in fleets. O Karl , your such a meanie pointing out the truth Fly reckless and take chances..............it's more fun
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Coriault Combat Solutions Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.17 05:32:00 - [646] Originally by: Karl Luckner Well, not everything changed with the patch is pure evil. But some things are just stupid. Rockets don't hit their usual targets for enough damage, and the concept for cruise missiles is just stupid. Due to the need of target painting, they have added optimal and falloff to cruise missiles. But the damage is as delayed as before the patch. But I guess cruise missile snipers where that overpowered, the Devs had to do something. I mean nobody even thought about using a turret sniper in fleets. this
KalEl Trask	Posted - 2008.12.17 08:53:00 - [647] I agree, This went way to far. I feel like 8 months of training was thrown away with this..... uhhmmm patch!
Gogstein Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.12.17 09:13:00 - [648] For PvE the CNR has no problems still imho. Im still using it + drones to get smaller targets. For PvP...go gallente, i know i did.
Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.17 09:14:00 - [649] I know it's not right to speak for other people, but I'm sure ISK farmers in their Navy Ravens are super angry. Vote for Karille next CSM cycle. Forum players need a voice too.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Coriault Combat Solutions Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.17 20:11:00 - [650] Originally by: Gogstein For PvE the CNR has no problems still imho. Im still using it + drones to get smaller targets. For PvP...go gallente, i know i did. Yeah :( I could care less about PVE, but I don't want to be forced into another race just to pvp. Adapting is one thing, but completely training up an entirely different set of skills is another. Old missile formula was never overpowered.

Karille Gallente Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.12.17 20:31:00 - [651] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Originally by: Gogstein For PvE the CNR has no problems still imho. Im still using it + drones to get smaller targets. For PvP...go gallente, i know i did. Yeah :( I could care less about PVE, but I don't want to be forced into another race just to pvp. Adapting is one thing, but completely training up an entirely different set of skills is another. Old missile formula was never overpowered. You have to be kidding. Large missiles did WAY too much damage to small targets. Vote for Karille next CSM cycle. Forum players need a voice too.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.12.17 21:46:00 - [652] isnt every change going too far? Trashed sig, Shark was here
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.12.17 22:02:00 - [653] Edited by: KhaniKirai on 17/12/2008 22:02:54 Originally by: Karille Originally by: Khamal Jolstien Originally by: Gogstein For PvE the CNR has no problems still imho. Im still using it + drones to get smaller targets. For PvP...go gallente, i know i did. Yeah :( I could care less about PVE, but I don't want to be forced into another race just to pvp. Adapting is one thing, but completely training up an entirely different set of skills is another. Old missile formula was never overpowered. You have to be kidding. Large missiles did WAY too much damage to small targets. yeah 0.1 damage was really too much and 20 a 30 damage vs orbiting inty was also too much with precision cruise and flare/rigor rigs fitted
Daxel Magmalloy Caldari Praetorian BlackGuard	Posted - 2008.12.17 22:35:00 - [654] Edited by: Daxel Magmalloy on 17/12/2008 22:35:19 Missiles needed to be nerfed for FW. Even I know that. Adapt or die. Simple. Was training up missiles and BS skills and got myself into a Raven the day after the expansion, so don't know how fast missions were beforehand, but missions are now considerably faster than in the Drake and that's good enough for me. Don't see what the fuss is about tbh. Training up new skills and learning to fly new ships is fun. :)
Bohoba Caldari HolyKnights	Posted - 2008.12.17 22:53:00 - [655] Edited by: Bohoba on 17/12/2008 22:54:31 Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy Edited by: Daxel Magmalloy on 17/12/2008 22:35:19 Missiles needed to be nerfed for FW. Even I know that. Adapt or die. Simple. Was training up missiles and BS skills and got myself into a Raven the day after the expansion, so don't know how fast missions were beforehand, but missions are now considerably faster than in the Drake and that's good enough for me. Don't see what the fuss is about tbh. Training up new skills and learning to fly new ships is fun. :) not about mission runners m8, its about pvp if you go to the dev board there is a guy with graphs that show how much dps the turrets put out and the torp raven is the lowest Oh please give my torps a wreaking of 2200 like the rails done to a moving crow just saw it again done yesterday Oh well winers won this one so am retired from pvp. ....................... 10.5 hours a day do you have what it takes ?
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.12.18 16:56:00 - [656] Yeah, most people posting silly things like: train more skills, dont realize, that some people that say the nerf went too far, ALREADY got the skills maximum :D Problem with the whole missile calculation is more: with low skills, its worse then before. with decent skills, its bit worse then before. with medium skills, you barely notice any difference. with GOOD skills, you suddenly realize, you got really nerved a LOT. Thats how the calculations are working in game. The bonus on some missile skills should be increased a little bit, to make it balanced again, because damage is now way too hardcapped by speed of target and nothing to do about it really. The improvement percent on the skill, that increases missile explosion velocity for example is too small. It was good before the change, but its now not doing its job well. The MWD change doesnt help missile users at all: the signature penalty of the target, is cancelled out by the target speed bonus. However, the signature change on mwd does help turrets more then before the patch. You will hit better then before. Drones also hit them better :/
J Ripper Caldari Silent Retaliation	Posted - 2008.12.18 17:46:00 - [657] I'm back on my 5 day account reactivation... Just want to say i'm gutted at this nerf! (and ghost training - thats another subject) at least I didnt have to pay for the 5 days lol


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