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Archa
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Posted - 2004.07.09 15:55:00 -
[91]
It is incredible the way some of you people can whine about a nerf. My stuff has been nerfed many many times. Just move on. And frankly, if you look at it objectively. you know the ew was to powerful. Being able to targetjam 2 x 1.5 mil bs's and just float around them. that is just stupid.
Perhaps they should increase the npc bs ew status to 32 ew so it is harder to jam theM?
Just let it go and move on.
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Archa
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Posted - 2004.07.09 15:55:00 -
[92]
It is incredible the way some of you people can whine about a nerf. My stuff has been nerfed many many times. Just move on. And frankly, if you look at it objectively. you know the ew was to powerful. Being able to targetjam 2 x 1.5 mil bs's and just float around them. that is just stupid.
Perhaps they should increase the npc bs ew status to 32 ew so it is harder to jam theM?
Just let it go and move on.
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Archa
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Posted - 2004.07.09 15:56:00 -
[93]
 Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: Major Mayhem
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use?
Interesting point. With very occasional "racially pure" exceptions, most player corps have a total mix of ships from all races. Hell, many *players* fly a mix of ships from all races. So why is it that pirates fly fleets with a regimented purity of type that a regular fleet would envy?
Let's have some variety in the rats! Have the occasional Angel with a Gurista ship or Sansha with Serpentis. Make the players wake up as they meet ships of uncertain type and lethality! And make sure players can't optically configure for hunting in the sure and certain knowledge of what they'll be facing...
that might happen when jove space opens up soon...
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Archa
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Posted - 2004.07.09 15:56:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: Major Mayhem
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use?
Interesting point. With very occasional "racially pure" exceptions, most player corps have a total mix of ships from all races. Hell, many *players* fly a mix of ships from all races. So why is it that pirates fly fleets with a regimented purity of type that a regular fleet would envy?
Let's have some variety in the rats! Have the occasional Angel with a Gurista ship or Sansha with Serpentis. Make the players wake up as they meet ships of uncertain type and lethality! And make sure players can't optically configure for hunting in the sure and certain knowledge of what they'll be facing...
that might happen when jove space opens up soon...
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Jhered Stern
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Posted - 2004.07.09 18:41:00 -
[95]
I actually agree that with this fellow about NPC's and EW. i think the best way to handle this situation is when an MPC battle ship gets jammed have it do what any player with any real skill would do in that situation. Launch a **** load of drones and call for backup.
Basically, an NPC scorpion should not be found alone, but with a another battleship and the Scorpion AI should be set up to Jam the player while the other hammers him to pices.
NPC battleships should not be an easy fight but they should not be invulnerable either. If this is an AI problem talk to the people who made EQ the monster AI in that game is the best I have ever seen.
On the other hand every ship in the game has a weekness and it should be possible to exploit that weekness. Simply have the AI adapt to the exploit after a while.
*NOTE* my use of the word exploit here is in terms of skill not faulty game mechanics.
Jhered Out!
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Jhered Stern
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Posted - 2004.07.09 18:41:00 -
[96]
I actually agree that with this fellow about NPC's and EW. i think the best way to handle this situation is when an MPC battle ship gets jammed have it do what any player with any real skill would do in that situation. Launch a **** load of drones and call for backup.
Basically, an NPC scorpion should not be found alone, but with a another battleship and the Scorpion AI should be set up to Jam the player while the other hammers him to pices.
NPC battleships should not be an easy fight but they should not be invulnerable either. If this is an AI problem talk to the people who made EQ the monster AI in that game is the best I have ever seen.
On the other hand every ship in the game has a weekness and it should be possible to exploit that weekness. Simply have the AI adapt to the exploit after a while.
*NOTE* my use of the word exploit here is in terms of skill not faulty game mechanics.
Jhered Out!
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.07.09 20:34:00 -
[97]
As it stands I would say they are fairly balanced.
Like has been stated there are a few obvious probs with the loot tables but that's an easy fix.
As it stands there would be room to ***** if the AI's were tough. They are not. So to make up for that they nerfed perma spawning them gave them mediocre loot and toughened up their defenses.
Go to the NPC explorer on eve-i or eve-db and look at what the different mobs resist to and equip your ship appropirately.
Using missles is really only viable in the guristas as they drop s-loads of missles both torps and cruise. If their cost is that much of a concern.
Apocs and armaggedon make great NPC hunters because of the low ammo cost.
I only have about 8 mil worth of ship/gunnery skills and I find 2 BS + 4 cruisers doable solo. So I think you can make it work to.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.07.09 20:34:00 -
[98]
As it stands I would say they are fairly balanced.
Like has been stated there are a few obvious probs with the loot tables but that's an easy fix.
As it stands there would be room to ***** if the AI's were tough. They are not. So to make up for that they nerfed perma spawning them gave them mediocre loot and toughened up their defenses.
Go to the NPC explorer on eve-i or eve-db and look at what the different mobs resist to and equip your ship appropirately.
Using missles is really only viable in the guristas as they drop s-loads of missles both torps and cruise. If their cost is that much of a concern.
Apocs and armaggedon make great NPC hunters because of the low ammo cost.
I only have about 8 mil worth of ship/gunnery skills and I find 2 BS + 4 cruisers doable solo. So I think you can make it work to.
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Bhal'rog
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:03:00 -
[99]
The loot tables may seem strange but they are a necessity. We are already getting a nice bounties on the BSs, if you add battleship loot into every NPC BS you kill it will wreck the market for battleship mods.
The uberness of their ships is also required. As someone already stated, they do not fire FOF's, release drones, warp to safe spots or call in reenforcements. If they are jammed and can't shoot, do you expect them to march like lambs to the slaughter?
May be someone else could answer this question (me = Minmatar pilot who doesn't use EW): Where NPC battleships jammable prior to the latest patch? If they weren't, it was most likely a mistake that they could be jammed post patch and this "stealth nerf" was just a correction.
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Bhal'rog
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:03:00 -
[100]
The loot tables may seem strange but they are a necessity. We are already getting a nice bounties on the BSs, if you add battleship loot into every NPC BS you kill it will wreck the market for battleship mods.
The uberness of their ships is also required. As someone already stated, they do not fire FOF's, release drones, warp to safe spots or call in reenforcements. If they are jammed and can't shoot, do you expect them to march like lambs to the slaughter?
May be someone else could answer this question (me = Minmatar pilot who doesn't use EW): Where NPC battleships jammable prior to the latest patch? If they weren't, it was most likely a mistake that they could be jammed post patch and this "stealth nerf" was just a correction.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:09:00 -
[101]
Before Castor (pretty sure that is the right time frame), NPC's weren't jammable. Sometime after Castor they became jammable. Most recent patch - not jammable again.
In all that time, I don't recall CCP making a statement about this at all. My guess is they were never meant to be jammed and just reverted them back to their original behaviour.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:09:00 -
[102]
Before Castor (pretty sure that is the right time frame), NPC's weren't jammable. Sometime after Castor they became jammable. Most recent patch - not jammable again.
In all that time, I don't recall CCP making a statement about this at all. My guess is they were never meant to be jammed and just reverted them back to their original behaviour.
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Booky
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Posted - 2004.07.10 01:51:00 -
[103]
My %^$& is bigger than your %^$&  Hey at least im willing to share. Anyone want to use some of my 16 mil SP so they can whine some?
On the actualy topic, I think it is a good change. You shouldn't be able to automatically jam a NPC battleship and always jam him succesfully. Maybe make thier strength random, otherwise you can kill the small guys and then peck away at the big guy all day long.
As for profits, I use 5 Cruise launchers on my Raven and I figure it cost me about 70k or so in missles to kill a 750k battleship (Megathron) solo. That makes 680k profit, im am perfectly fine with that 
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Booky
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Posted - 2004.07.10 01:51:00 -
[104]
My %^$& is bigger than your %^$& Hey at least im willing to share. Anyone want to use some of my 16 mil SP so they can whine some?
On the actualy topic, I think it is a good change. You shouldn't be able to automatically jam a NPC battleship and always jam him succesfully. Maybe make thier strength random, otherwise you can kill the small guys and then peck away at the big guy all day long.
As for profits, I use 5 Cruise launchers on my Raven and I figure it cost me about 70k or so in missles to kill a 750k battleship (Megathron) solo. That makes 680k profit, im am perfectly fine with that
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.07.10 05:30:00 -
[105]
Im already ahead of you my subscription runs out the 14. I'll come back when eve gets taken over by a company that knows wtf there doing.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.07.10 05:30:00 -
[106]
Im already ahead of you my subscription runs out the 14. I'll come back when eve gets taken over by a company that knows wtf there doing.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.07.10 10:47:00 -
[107]
beef!
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.07.10 10:47:00 -
[108]
beef!
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.07.10 11:18:00 -
[109]
Burn Baby Burn!!11!1
w00t!
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.07.10 11:18:00 -
[110]
Burn Baby Burn!!11!1
w00t!
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Recnac
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Posted - 2004.07.10 20:12:00 -
[111]
in answer to the origional question if it hasent been answered already
in the patch notes it states
Addition: All NPC's are now unjammable.
so it was intentional
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Recnac
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Posted - 2004.07.10 20:12:00 -
[112]
in answer to the origional question if it hasent been answered already
in the patch notes it states
Addition: All NPC's are now unjammable.
so it was intentional
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Taylor08
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Posted - 2004.07.11 02:32:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Taylor08 on 11/07/2004 02:34:11
my god, that is so ***, ccp tries to make the npcs more realistic only to make htem unjammable?!?!?!?! 
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Taylor08
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Posted - 2004.07.11 02:32:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Taylor08 on 11/07/2004 02:34:11
my god, that is so ***, ccp tries to make the npcs more realistic only to make htem unjammable?!?!?!?!
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CmdrRat
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Posted - 2004.07.11 07:16:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Adriana
First of all the scorpion is designed primarily for EW is it not? So if you take away it's ability to do that on npc ships you make it useless right?
So so so so right. I just jumped in to a belt with 2 500K BS's and they totaly owned me when I hit the jammers.
I had 5 multi spec and couldn't jam one of them. Wish I had know that.
I wouldn't have lost that scorpion. I wouldn't be in debt. I wouldn't have lost those named mods.
But I'll make do as I always have, I'll just stop trying to play "smart" and play with a bigger stick.
/me gets his megathron
________________________________________________
Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything |
CmdrRat
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Posted - 2004.07.11 07:16:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Adriana
First of all the scorpion is designed primarily for EW is it not? So if you take away it's ability to do that on npc ships you make it useless right?
So so so so right. I just jumped in to a belt with 2 500K BS's and they totaly owned me when I hit the jammers.
I had 5 multi spec and couldn't jam one of them. Wish I had know that.
I wouldn't have lost that scorpion. I wouldn't be in debt. I wouldn't have lost those named mods.
But I'll make do as I always have, I'll just stop trying to play "smart" and play with a bigger stick.
/me gets his megathron
________________________________________________
Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything |
McFly
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Posted - 2004.07.11 08:56:00 -
[117]
And still no response from CCP? must be a SoonÖ thing.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.07.11 08:56:00 -
[118]
And still no response from CCP? must be a SoonÖ thing.
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.07.11 09:15:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 11/07/2004 09:18:15
Originally by: Al Thorr
Always thought npc BS should be very hard to kill / jamm . if its easy then whats the point? sorry cant understand the whine - a bs is the top of the range ship and if your bs was nerfed in the same way you would complain even more vociferously. imho
Spelling mistakes included :)
Regards Al Thorr
Just a small point, but using CCP's own vision for ship types, im betting that multiple frigate users that try to warp scram/jam/whatever an NPC batleship get boned in a heartbeat, whereas they will live vs a PC bs.
Having said that tho, i think BS should be well ard, and amazingly hard to kill.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.07.11 09:15:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 11/07/2004 09:18:15
Originally by: Al Thorr
Always thought npc BS should be very hard to kill / jamm . if its easy then whats the point? sorry cant understand the whine - a bs is the top of the range ship and if your bs was nerfed in the same way you would complain even more vociferously. imho
Spelling mistakes included :)
Regards Al Thorr
Just a small point, but using CCP's own vision for ship types, im betting that multiple frigate users that try to warp scram/jam/whatever an NPC batleship get boned in a heartbeat, whereas they will live vs a PC bs.
Having said that tho, i think BS should be well ard, and amazingly hard to kill.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
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