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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 22:38:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Borsig Rheinmetall on 09/07/2004 00:05:24
Edited by: Borsig Rheinmetall on 08/07/2004 22:40:09
Was taking the ability to jam NPC's away, today, planned and intentional or not???
You increase BS defense. It now takes more torps than I care to count to kill a BS spawn of even the 500k -750 k nature..
THEN you decide to sneak out the abaility to jam them right out from under us without saying a word? And refuse to answer with a response? Rude. Very rude. POOR customer service.
Bottom line - The loot drops are worthless, the bounties are too low for any kind of profit, and now you take away thr EW ascpect. Slug it out or go home...
OK. I go home. I prefer to fit for EW. Both PvP and PVE. You take my option away, the game just got alot more boring for me. Frankly, its been going down that road for a while now. Keep steering, and you'll lose another customer.
I simply cant believe you did this.
moved from General so that TomB may find it sooner-Eris Discordia
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 22:38:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Borsig Rheinmetall on 09/07/2004 00:05:24
Edited by: Borsig Rheinmetall on 08/07/2004 22:40:09
Was taking the ability to jam NPC's away, today, planned and intentional or not???
You increase BS defense. It now takes more torps than I care to count to kill a BS spawn of even the 500k -750 k nature..
THEN you decide to sneak out the abaility to jam them right out from under us without saying a word? And refuse to answer with a response? Rude. Very rude. POOR customer service.
Bottom line - The loot drops are worthless, the bounties are too low for any kind of profit, and now you take away thr EW ascpect. Slug it out or go home...
OK. I go home. I prefer to fit for EW. Both PvP and PVE. You take my option away, the game just got alot more boring for me. Frankly, its been going down that road for a while now. Keep steering, and you'll lose another customer.
I simply cant believe you did this.
moved from General so that TomB may find it sooner-Eris Discordia
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.07.08 22:52:00 -
[3]
I think a dev might respond to this, so I will post this here.
I think the resistences and the defense output of the higher bount battleships need to be taken down a peg or two, because currently, if you are in a particular races ship, and are fighting against a ship tanked against your races damage, it becomes impossible to destroy the NPC ship. Case in point would be the Blood Patriarch and my megathron with 425 rails and plutonium, once I manage to get to the armor, their armor repairing matches my damage and we are at a stalemate (with the exception that I eventually run out of cap because I need to repair my armor, where as the NPC doesnt need to worry about cap).
I'm not to sure if this means that commanders need to be tweaked either, because I have not encountered one since the latest patch, but I suspect that they too will need their resistences lowered a bit.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.07.08 22:52:00 -
[4]
I think a dev might respond to this, so I will post this here.
I think the resistences and the defense output of the higher bount battleships need to be taken down a peg or two, because currently, if you are in a particular races ship, and are fighting against a ship tanked against your races damage, it becomes impossible to destroy the NPC ship. Case in point would be the Blood Patriarch and my megathron with 425 rails and plutonium, once I manage to get to the armor, their armor repairing matches my damage and we are at a stalemate (with the exception that I eventually run out of cap because I need to repair my armor, where as the NPC doesnt need to worry about cap).
I'm not to sure if this means that commanders need to be tweaked either, because I have not encountered one since the latest patch, but I suspect that they too will need their resistences lowered a bit.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
.
<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.07.08 22:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Viceroy on 08/07/2004 23:00:31
Good change. NPCs were too easy to kill for too high a reward, this should balance it out a bit.
BTW: I'm not demanding anything so stop acting like you represent the whole community. I think you represent the people who want npcs to be little fluffy bunnies with modulated tachyons and 1.5mil bounties.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.07.08 22:58:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Viceroy on 08/07/2004 23:00:31
Good change. NPCs were too easy to kill for too high a reward, this should balance it out a bit.
BTW: I'm not demanding anything so stop acting like you represent the whole community. I think you represent the people who want npcs to be little fluffy bunnies with modulated tachyons and 1.5mil bounties.
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:05:00 -
[7]
Stop hijacking my thread and go back to your own.
Only reason youre even posting in here is to irritate me and stir more BS, because you didnt like my comments on the other thread. You will unlikely find a follwing in your opinions.
Leaving only one option, shield tank and slug is boring. Dumb NPCs that can only be beaten one way, are boring.
And stealth nerfs suck.
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:05:00 -
[8]
Stop hijacking my thread and go back to your own.
Only reason youre even posting in here is to irritate me and stir more BS, because you didnt like my comments on the other thread. You will unlikely find a follwing in your opinions.
Leaving only one option, shield tank and slug is boring. Dumb NPCs that can only be beaten one way, are boring.
And stealth nerfs suck.
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Tebren
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:10:00 -
[9]
I'd rather not have a reactionist radical claim to speak for me either...
Battleships were becoming much too common and disturbingly easy to kill if you had any sort of skill, plus the loot drops were becoming too common rapidly devaluing them. It's a pity CCP didn't tell anyone, but quite frankly get over it. The bounties aren't too low, I suggest you find something a touch more profitable than shooting 3,000 ISK missiles at them instead of complaining needlessly.
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"You arrogant ass, you've killed us." |
Tebren
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:10:00 -
[10]
I'd rather not have a reactionist radical claim to speak for me either...
Battleships were becoming much too common and disturbingly easy to kill if you had any sort of skill, plus the loot drops were becoming too common rapidly devaluing them. It's a pity CCP didn't tell anyone, but quite frankly get over it. The bounties aren't too low, I suggest you find something a touch more profitable than shooting 3,000 ISK missiles at them instead of complaining needlessly.
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"You arrogant ass, you've killed us." |
Major Mayhem
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:22:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Major Mayhem on 08/07/2004 23:25:39
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use? Or is it right to have arcadish BS spawns that have no real basis in the game's reality? Invulnerability for NPC's, no matter what it is, detracts from the experience. There are players who specialize in all sorts of tactics, making NPC's invulnerable to some of those tactics destroys an aspect of the game. If the BS's are too easy to kill, when realistically vulnerable.....increase the number that spawn in.
On the same coin, when are high-level spawns actually going to start dropping stuff they use? I seriously doubt an Enforcer uses small ammunition and 10 mn MWD's.
__________________
Mayhem |
Major Mayhem
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Major Mayhem on 08/07/2004 23:25:39
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use? Or is it right to have arcadish BS spawns that have no real basis in the game's reality? Invulnerability for NPC's, no matter what it is, detracts from the experience. There are players who specialize in all sorts of tactics, making NPC's invulnerable to some of those tactics destroys an aspect of the game. If the BS's are too easy to kill, when realistically vulnerable.....increase the number that spawn in.
On the same coin, when are high-level spawns actually going to start dropping stuff they use? I seriously doubt an Enforcer uses small ammunition and 10 mn MWD's.
__________________
Mayhem |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:26:00 -
[13]
Always thought npc BS should be very hard to kill / jamm . if its easy then whats the point? sorry cant understand the whine - a bs is the top of the range ship and if your bs was nerfed in the same way you would complain even more vociferously. imho
Spelling mistakes included :)
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:26:00 -
[14]
Always thought npc BS should be very hard to kill / jamm . if its easy then whats the point? sorry cant understand the whine - a bs is the top of the range ship and if your bs was nerfed in the same way you would complain even more vociferously. imho
Spelling mistakes included :)
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Lyela
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:29:00 -
[15]
If they wish for NPC battleships to be like players then do that, no infinate cap etc, armortanking NPC, cool, makes the fight fun, but he should have the same disadvantage like eventually running outa cap, I still have no problem taking on 500k-1mil BS solo with the overnerfed BS turrets, you just gotta learn you cant fly at them, away from them or sit still, you have to match their direction of travel/maintain optimal distance etc and so on. and learn to switch out ammo as needed.
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Lyela
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:29:00 -
[16]
If they wish for NPC battleships to be like players then do that, no infinate cap etc, armortanking NPC, cool, makes the fight fun, but he should have the same disadvantage like eventually running outa cap, I still have no problem taking on 500k-1mil BS solo with the overnerfed BS turrets, you just gotta learn you cant fly at them, away from them or sit still, you have to match their direction of travel/maintain optimal distance etc and so on. and learn to switch out ammo as needed.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:32:00 -
[17]
NPC's are fine the way they are. The difficulty is just about right.
Some of the loot tables are a little silly though. I killed a few 750k Sanshas last night and got some frigate sized lasers off them...
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:32:00 -
[18]
NPC's are fine the way they are. The difficulty is just about right.
Some of the loot tables are a little silly though. I killed a few 750k Sanshas last night and got some frigate sized lasers off them...
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:34:00 -
[19]
hard to jam, yes. BUT I can jam a player scorp using 2 gravemetric II backup arrays with 6 multispectrals. Yet I cant jam a dominix or a megathron of the NPC variety with six now?
They were just fine the way they were. 4-5 multis is the same it takes to jam almost any player BS. Should NPC's be harder than skilled players?
As mayhem said, taking away a combat tactic is bad. Some people like to slug and tank, some like to use EW. I prefer the latter method. What if they took away the ability to shield tank vs NPC. say give them a special weapon that your shield taking wouldnt stop. Say they did that, and made EW the only viable way to NPC hunt.
They were fine the way they were, save the lousy loot drops. But if the ability to use EW on them is taken away (its not hard to jam them, its impossible) then yes, bounties need to go up on them.
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:34:00 -
[20]
hard to jam, yes. BUT I can jam a player scorp using 2 gravemetric II backup arrays with 6 multispectrals. Yet I cant jam a dominix or a megathron of the NPC variety with six now?
They were just fine the way they were. 4-5 multis is the same it takes to jam almost any player BS. Should NPC's be harder than skilled players?
As mayhem said, taking away a combat tactic is bad. Some people like to slug and tank, some like to use EW. I prefer the latter method. What if they took away the ability to shield tank vs NPC. say give them a special weapon that your shield taking wouldnt stop. Say they did that, and made EW the only viable way to NPC hunt.
They were fine the way they were, save the lousy loot drops. But if the ability to use EW on them is taken away (its not hard to jam them, its impossible) then yes, bounties need to go up on them.
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Al Thorr on 08/07/2004 23:40:20
and another point : who are YOU to DEMAND anything on my behalf ?
Go away you 3 month 'veteran'
Why whinge when you evidently do not have the skill points to ?
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:38:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Al Thorr on 08/07/2004 23:40:20
and another point : who are YOU to DEMAND anything on my behalf ?
Go away you 3 month 'veteran'
Why whinge when you evidently do not have the skill points to ?
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:44:00 -
[23]
Gimmie a break on the damn skillpoints. Im sick of hearing that rebutal to anything I ever say on these forums. There are plenty of people annoyed by this.
So what if I only have a few million skill points. Stealth nerfing is bad no matter what game you play or how long youve been playing it.
If you cant come up with a better response than that, sit back and think on the subject at hand. If you like the change and the "stealth nerf" as it were, then fine. Thats your opinion. The number of skillpoints I have has nothing to do with what seems to sit poorly with the MAJORITY of people who have posted on the subject, and those Ive talked to ingame so far.
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:44:00 -
[24]
Gimmie a break on the damn skillpoints. Im sick of hearing that rebutal to anything I ever say on these forums. There are plenty of people annoyed by this.
So what if I only have a few million skill points. Stealth nerfing is bad no matter what game you play or how long youve been playing it.
If you cant come up with a better response than that, sit back and think on the subject at hand. If you like the change and the "stealth nerf" as it were, then fine. Thats your opinion. The number of skillpoints I have has nothing to do with what seems to sit poorly with the MAJORITY of people who have posted on the subject, and those Ive talked to ingame so far.
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:56:00 -
[25]
With the greatest respect bud but you cannot DEMAND anything from this forum.. as you are not even considered an accomplished player ( sorry it is a skill point thing ) and you do not speak for me or many others when you say COMMUNITY... so I suggest you start off your flame correctly in your asumption of your own importance.!
I never voted you as my spokes person nor can I remember any such vote being cast ...... SO please clarify your so called position on these points tha you so vehemently subscribe to.
If you wish to complain then do so as an individual but not as a self appointed " I AM EVE " type wnker
Regards
Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.08 23:56:00 -
[26]
With the greatest respect bud but you cannot DEMAND anything from this forum.. as you are not even considered an accomplished player ( sorry it is a skill point thing ) and you do not speak for me or many others when you say COMMUNITY... so I suggest you start off your flame correctly in your asumption of your own importance.!
I never voted you as my spokes person nor can I remember any such vote being cast ...... SO please clarify your so called position on these points tha you so vehemently subscribe to.
If you wish to complain then do so as an individual but not as a self appointed " I AM EVE " type wnker
Regards
Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:01:00 -
[27]
i can understand that point I suppose..
I'll edit the title then. Perhaps somone with 15 million SP can see it my way and get some respect on the issue.
At least Im not posting with an alt.
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:01:00 -
[28]
i can understand that point I suppose..
I'll edit the title then. Perhaps somone with 15 million SP can see it my way and get some respect on the issue.
At least Im not posting with an alt.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:02:00 -
[29]
 Originally by: ProphetGuru
I DEMAND pi3!!!!!!1111oneone
pi3 yummy
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:02:00 -
[30]
Originally by: ProphetGuru
I DEMAND pi3!!!!!!1111oneone
pi3 yummy
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:11:00 -
[31]
Well, I thought it was fine, but they could have at least TOLD us. Nearly got us killed today.
(Oh, btw, thats 3 threads at least now)
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:11:00 -
[32]
Well, I thought it was fine, but they could have at least TOLD us. Nearly got us killed today.
(Oh, btw, thats 3 threads at least now)
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:12:00 -
[33]
I hardly remember who you are, and I dont really care. I'm stating my opinion.
And my opinion stands. NPCs were too easy to kill, they got a defence boost. Whats the problem?
Everyone knows the drill; warp to belt, cycle jam npcs, pound them to death. They dont fire back, they dont use drones/fof, so simply they're cargo containers with a little more health that shield/armor boost (And drop modulated tachyons when killed, not to mention huge bounties).
That was too easy imo, its better that they actually fire back. This way you can earn those nice 50m+ named items and 500k-1.5mil bounties (Which apparently arent "profitable" lol) while actually taking some heat from the npcs.
Good change.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:12:00 -
[34]
I hardly remember who you are, and I dont really care. I'm stating my opinion.
And my opinion stands. NPCs were too easy to kill, they got a defence boost. Whats the problem?
Everyone knows the drill; warp to belt, cycle jam npcs, pound them to death. They dont fire back, they dont use drones/fof, so simply they're cargo containers with a little more health that shield/armor boost (And drop modulated tachyons when killed, not to mention huge bounties).
That was too easy imo, its better that they actually fire back. This way you can earn those nice 50m+ named items and 500k-1.5mil bounties (Which apparently arent "profitable" lol) while actually taking some heat from the npcs.
Good change.
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:13:00 -
[35]
Sorry bud what alt a am I posing with ?????????????
11 mil skill points and you call me an alt !!!!!
Get real little boy, you wanna throw insults then do so .... but the sign of growing up is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake!
You evidently cannot read and so I make allowances - I still call you a 3.5 month old veteran - and now call you child without a diaper as your ability to assimilate information is evidently poor .
NO regards
Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Al Thorr
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:13:00 -
[36]
Sorry bud what alt a am I posing with ?????????????
11 mil skill points and you call me an alt !!!!!
Get real little boy, you wanna throw insults then do so .... but the sign of growing up is the ability to admit when you have made a mistake!
You evidently cannot read and so I make allowances - I still call you a 3.5 month old veteran - and now call you child without a diaper as your ability to assimilate information is evidently poor .
NO regards
Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:14:00 -
[37]
I wasnt referring to you. I was referring to peaople who rant like mad on these forums with obvious alts.
Jesus people are jumpy around here.
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:14:00 -
[38]
I wasnt referring to you. I was referring to peaople who rant like mad on these forums with obvious alts.
Jesus people are jumpy around here.
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Lentia
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:25:00 -
[39]
I have 9.5M skill points. Am I allowed to reply?
So basically now we have BS NPC's somehow armor tanking, with massive resistances, and infinite eccm mods, and infinite cap mods? Yet they are the same ships we are using? And of course they are doing this with a 1 mn mwd, and a med laser, and maybe a small shield extender? Wow, thats a neat trick. 
To Borsig,
Since I cant really use my Mega's Hybrids on the local rats anymore, as they dont hit, and even if they did, they are totally resitant to thermal and kinetic, i just bought a Raven and spam paradise cruise all day. Oh fun. No strategy or skill needed. Then they nerf missles, so I will just log on to change skills and chat.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Lentia
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:25:00 -
[40]
I have 9.5M skill points. Am I allowed to reply?
So basically now we have BS NPC's somehow armor tanking, with massive resistances, and infinite eccm mods, and infinite cap mods? Yet they are the same ships we are using? And of course they are doing this with a 1 mn mwd, and a med laser, and maybe a small shield extender? Wow, thats a neat trick.
To Borsig,
Since I cant really use my Mega's Hybrids on the local rats anymore, as they dont hit, and even if they did, they are totally resitant to thermal and kinetic, i just bought a Raven and spam paradise cruise all day. Oh fun. No strategy or skill needed. Then they nerf missles, so I will just log on to change skills and chat.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Xendie
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:26:00 -
[41]
it is getting a bit annoying when 8 out of 10 npc battleships drop 1mn afterburners and mwd's and the other 2 drop a normal dual 250 rail.
one would think that with the speed they advance and with the damage output they have they could atleast drop battleship equipment 10 out of 10 times and maybe once out of those 10 drop a named item of some sorts.
that wouldnt be to much to ask for i think.
right now its redicilous with frigate equipment dropping from npc battleships.
i do like however that they are a bit harder to do now.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:26:00 -
[42]
it is getting a bit annoying when 8 out of 10 npc battleships drop 1mn afterburners and mwd's and the other 2 drop a normal dual 250 rail.
one would think that with the speed they advance and with the damage output they have they could atleast drop battleship equipment 10 out of 10 times and maybe once out of those 10 drop a named item of some sorts.
that wouldnt be to much to ask for i think.
right now its redicilous with frigate equipment dropping from npc battleships.
i do like however that they are a bit harder to do now.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:28:00 -
[43]
Ok how about we give NPCs human AI so they warp to a safespot, gather 30 ships, send in a scout and all gang warp to it when it warp scrambles you? And they do all this while smack talking as well.
That would make up for the infinite cap/eccm/armor-shield tanking eh? And it'd make the game much more interesting.
Until the devs manage to make up such an AI system, you'll have to do with the "slightly over-equipped mentally retarded" npcs which are quite balanced considering they have the AI of a monster from pacman.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:28:00 -
[44]
Ok how about we give NPCs human AI so they warp to a safespot, gather 30 ships, send in a scout and all gang warp to it when it warp scrambles you? And they do all this while smack talking as well.
That would make up for the infinite cap/eccm/armor-shield tanking eh? And it'd make the game much more interesting.
Until the devs manage to make up such an AI system, you'll have to do with the "slightly over-equipped mentally retarded" npcs which are quite balanced considering they have the AI of a monster from pacman.
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:30:00 -
[45]
Just change it back so not every god damn npc have MWD. It's so retarded.
kthxbye
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cashman
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:30:00 -
[46]
Just change it back so not every god damn npc have MWD. It's so retarded.
kthxbye
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:32:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Borsig Rheinmetall on 09/07/2004 00:34:49
Quote:
considering they have the AI of a monster from pacman.
lmao. classic.
maybe if we get within 10k of the nerf, we can get it to uncloak. Wonder where it is?
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Borsig Rheinmetall
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:32:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Borsig Rheinmetall on 09/07/2004 00:34:49
Quote:
considering they have the AI of a monster from pacman.
lmao. classic.
maybe if we get within 10k of the nerf, we can get it to uncloak. Wonder where it is?
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W1rlW1nd
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:35:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Borsig Rheinmetall
...I was referring to peaople who rant like mad on these forums ...
Jesus people are jumpy around here.
OMFG lol,
you come screaming on the forums with demands and threats to ccp and claiming to represent the entire eve community- then u go back and edit your rant to tone it down and YOU think people are jumpy around here!!?!!
it's nice to see that you are now aware that you do not singularly represent the entire gaming community,
it's nice to see that you now realise that your complaint was only one more opinion like anyone else.
...but after that crazy rant you just made, then edited- don't u dare accuse anyone else about ranting like mad- you have the record so far!;)
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W1rlW1nd
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Posted - 2004.07.09 00:35:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Borsig Rheinmetall
...I was referring to peaople who rant like mad on these forums ...
Jesus people are jumpy around here.
OMFG lol,
you come screaming on the forums with demands and threats to ccp and claiming to represent the entire eve community- then u go back and edit your rant to tone it down and YOU think people are jumpy around here!!?!!
it's nice to see that you are now aware that you do not singularly represent the entire gaming community,
it's nice to see that you now realise that your complaint was only one more opinion like anyone else.
...but after that crazy rant you just made, then edited- don't u dare accuse anyone else about ranting like mad- you have the record so far!;)
|
Borsig Rheinmetall
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 00:37:00 -
[51]
Oh I wouldnt say I have the record. But this one ****ed me off pretty good.
I have always seen stealth nerfs as devs trying to push an agenda under the table, under the customer's noses. If they hide it, can it be popular? Unlikely.
|
Borsig Rheinmetall
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 00:37:00 -
[52]
Oh I wouldnt say I have the record. But this one ****ed me off pretty good.
I have always seen stealth nerfs as devs trying to push an agenda under the table, under the customer's noses. If they hide it, can it be popular? Unlikely.
|
KIATolon
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 01:37:00 -
[53]
Its CCP's game, if you dont like it:
Linkage
|
KIATolon
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 01:37:00 -
[54]
Its CCP's game, if you dont like it:
Linkage
|
Xadian
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 02:13:00 -
[55]
I miss the ability to jam NPC BSes (I fly a scorp when NPCing) but when you could jam them it was just incredibly easy to kill them.
I think they should put the ability to jam them back in, but only if they give the BSes the abiltiy to jam you back. Also I would like to see them bump up the hit-points/dmg up a little bit,but would like it if their tracking was lowered a little as well. (Please note the 'littles' not 'Uber upgrade NPC BS of doom')
(making them 'smarter' would improve things, because tbh shooting at a NPC thats too dumb to move from behind a roid to get close-range is just not fun )
Always hit the big red button whenever you get the chance.
|
Xadian
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 02:13:00 -
[56]
I miss the ability to jam NPC BSes (I fly a scorp when NPCing) but when you could jam them it was just incredibly easy to kill them.
I think they should put the ability to jam them back in, but only if they give the BSes the abiltiy to jam you back. Also I would like to see them bump up the hit-points/dmg up a little bit,but would like it if their tracking was lowered a little as well. (Please note the 'littles' not 'Uber upgrade NPC BS of doom')
(making them 'smarter' would improve things, because tbh shooting at a NPC thats too dumb to move from behind a roid to get close-range is just not fun)
Always hit the big red button whenever you get the chance.
|
Psycho Doughboy
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 03:13:00 -
[57]
What this really boils down to is quite simple really.
Players of games where you have NPC spawns or AI players, get very frustrated when they see that self same NPC being given a huge advantage that they themselves do not have.
The worst fix in the universe to accomodate for the fact that an NPC might be weak in one area, is to give it a huge advantage in that area (ie by making AI troops invunerable to missile fire or by allowing them to see the whole map or by giving them uber weapons which negate a players shields)
|
Psycho Doughboy
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 03:13:00 -
[58]
What this really boils down to is quite simple really.
Players of games where you have NPC spawns or AI players, get very frustrated when they see that self same NPC being given a huge advantage that they themselves do not have.
The worst fix in the universe to accomodate for the fact that an NPC might be weak in one area, is to give it a huge advantage in that area (ie by making AI troops invunerable to missile fire or by allowing them to see the whole map or by giving them uber weapons which negate a players shields)
|
Hamatitio
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 03:52:00 -
[59]
Corpmate killed a 6 mil isk Guristas.
Loot:
1mn afterburner
1 siege launcher
1 medium cap booster (named)
some other useless crap...
yay
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Hamatitio
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 03:52:00 -
[60]
Corpmate killed a 6 mil isk Guristas.
Loot:
1mn afterburner
1 siege launcher
1 medium cap booster (named)
some other useless crap...
yay
--
Director of Ganking:
Death Row Inc. |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:06:00 -
[61]
Yeah, the ease of jamming NPCs was unbalanced. I'd have prefered to find this out through patch notes of some kind though, instead of warping in on top of a pair of Guristas Destroyers.
Torpedos hurt.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:06:00 -
[62]
Yeah, the ease of jamming NPCs was unbalanced. I'd have prefered to find this out through patch notes of some kind though, instead of warping in on top of a pair of Guristas Destroyers.
Torpedos hurt.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:10:00 -
[63]
Did CCP ever mention it was possible to jam NPC's? I thought back in the day it was not possible to jam NPC ships. Maybe they were simply fixing a bug?
Dunno.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:10:00 -
[64]
Did CCP ever mention it was possible to jam NPC's? I thought back in the day it was not possible to jam NPC ships. Maybe they were simply fixing a bug?
Dunno.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Gaijin Lanis
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:15:00 -
[65]
Hello CCP, you just made the PVE slightly difficult, please return it to the original setting of "mind numbingly easy," thank you.
On a semi-related note, If you can't delete it, it ain't really yours.
|
Gaijin Lanis
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:15:00 -
[66]
Hello CCP, you just made the PVE slightly difficult, please return it to the original setting of "mind numbingly easy," thank you.
On a semi-related note, If you can't delete it, it ain't really yours.
|
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:31:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Viceroy
Ok how about we give NPCs human AI so they warp to a safespot, gather 30 ships, send in a scout and all gang warp to it when it warp scrambles you? And they do all this while smack talking as well.
Signed.
Given that most human I is in dire need of some A, as these forums plainly show.
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
JP Beauregard
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 04:31:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Viceroy
Ok how about we give NPCs human AI so they warp to a safespot, gather 30 ships, send in a scout and all gang warp to it when it warp scrambles you? And they do all this while smack talking as well.
Signed.
Given that most human I is in dire need of some A, as these forums plainly show.
JP Beauregard
=== The Pilkington Guides to EVE === |
Adriana
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 06:28:00 -
[69]
Not having killed any NPC battleships I'm at a disadvantage here, so I have to go on whats been posted, and what hopefully ammounts to some common sense.
First of all the scorpion is designed primarily for EW is it not? So if you take away it's ability to do that on npc ships you make it useless right?
Or am I looking at it incorrectly? Is it something where you just have to go over the top with shield tanking and spam tons of missiles?
I guess my question is one of basic fairness. Are the things still doable, and if so are they balanced? Or impossible? I personally have no problems with hard spawns being in place as long as everyone has the ability to tackle them provided they use the right set up/tactics.
(I'm used to having to dealing with high end mobs in EQ. You have to plan and follow it through to have any chance of beating them. (of course after the first few times it still gets really boring))
On the top of loot drops, I don't think there should be any excuse for a BS to drop frigate or cruiser mods. The loot table should be battleship only mods. If you have to keep the loot value down you just set the named mod drops to be rare.
Lets face it, you don't load up your battleship with small lasers and a 1mn ab. A low end large laser and a 100MN ab aren't worth much either, and would at least add realism, even if not very exciting. the other option could be fewer surviving drops per kill. There are ways to do it so it's not retarded. Sure people might get sick of looking at power diag 1's, but thats something you see used on battleships, so it's realistic to expect something like that to drop.
Large guns like 425's or 1400's woudl also be common, but could be a much lower drop rate based on the fact that you would realistically be targeting them to stop them from being able to hit you and so they would have less survivablilty.
In short, uber npcs are ok as long as they are realistically doable in a balanced way, and fix the loot tables, it's just going to get recycled anyway unless it's something you actually might want to keep.
(of course if I am off base and sounding like an idiot here, then I apologized, I did warn you all that that I have no actual experience with these new NPCs, just the information from these posts)
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Adriana
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 06:28:00 -
[70]
Not having killed any NPC battleships I'm at a disadvantage here, so I have to go on whats been posted, and what hopefully ammounts to some common sense.
First of all the scorpion is designed primarily for EW is it not? So if you take away it's ability to do that on npc ships you make it useless right?
Or am I looking at it incorrectly? Is it something where you just have to go over the top with shield tanking and spam tons of missiles?
I guess my question is one of basic fairness. Are the things still doable, and if so are they balanced? Or impossible? I personally have no problems with hard spawns being in place as long as everyone has the ability to tackle them provided they use the right set up/tactics.
(I'm used to having to dealing with high end mobs in EQ. You have to plan and follow it through to have any chance of beating them. (of course after the first few times it still gets really boring))
On the top of loot drops, I don't think there should be any excuse for a BS to drop frigate or cruiser mods. The loot table should be battleship only mods. If you have to keep the loot value down you just set the named mod drops to be rare.
Lets face it, you don't load up your battleship with small lasers and a 1mn ab. A low end large laser and a 100MN ab aren't worth much either, and would at least add realism, even if not very exciting. the other option could be fewer surviving drops per kill. There are ways to do it so it's not retarded. Sure people might get sick of looking at power diag 1's, but thats something you see used on battleships, so it's realistic to expect something like that to drop.
Large guns like 425's or 1400's woudl also be common, but could be a much lower drop rate based on the fact that you would realistically be targeting them to stop them from being able to hit you and so they would have less survivablilty.
In short, uber npcs are ok as long as they are realistically doable in a balanced way, and fix the loot tables, it's just going to get recycled anyway unless it's something you actually might want to keep.
(of course if I am off base and sounding like an idiot here, then I apologized, I did warn you all that that I have no actual experience with these new NPCs, just the information from these posts)
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
-Napoleon Bonaparte |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 06:38:00 -
[71]
It would've been nice for this change to be announced somewhere though, regardless of whether you think the change is good or bad.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 06:38:00 -
[72]
It would've been nice for this change to be announced somewhere though, regardless of whether you think the change is good or bad.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
spurious signal
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 06:56:00 -
[73]
Stealth nerfs are always a mistake.
Either the change was accidental or it got left out of the patch notes by mistake. Stealth nerfs always generate more customer service requests, they p*ss players off, they generate flamethreads, nobody does them on purpose unless they're total amateurs - something CCP are not.
I agree that some NPC's should be harder but I disagree with invulnerabilities being a sensible way to achieve that. My money's on this being a mistake, all we need is a dev to raise their heads above the parapet and confirm this
|
spurious signal
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 06:56:00 -
[74]
Stealth nerfs are always a mistake.
Either the change was accidental or it got left out of the patch notes by mistake. Stealth nerfs always generate more customer service requests, they p*ss players off, they generate flamethreads, nobody does them on purpose unless they're total amateurs - something CCP are not.
I agree that some NPC's should be harder but I disagree with invulnerabilities being a sensible way to achieve that. My money's on this being a mistake, all we need is a dev to raise their heads above the parapet and confirm this
|
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 08:03:00 -
[75]
IMO NPCs should be very challenging, but not uber (in the sense of being insanely better than a player ship), but on the other hand their bounty and in particular their loot drops should more closely match what a player ship might drop. Specifically, Id like to see a few more guns, and more properly sized mods dropping with each high-bounty member of each ship class. (It would make sense that a 'noobish' 40k cruiser would only drop crappy stuff, but a 110k cruiser, comparable to a good player, shouldnt drop crap for loot)
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 08:03:00 -
[76]
IMO NPCs should be very challenging, but not uber (in the sense of being insanely better than a player ship), but on the other hand their bounty and in particular their loot drops should more closely match what a player ship might drop. Specifically, Id like to see a few more guns, and more properly sized mods dropping with each high-bounty member of each ship class. (It would make sense that a 'noobish' 40k cruiser would only drop crappy stuff, but a 110k cruiser, comparable to a good player, shouldnt drop crap for loot)
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Aelita
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 09:03:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Aelita on 09/07/2004 09:13:58
Let's face it. CCP don't want that we would be able make easy money in game. Pirates like doesn't like that we make money on NPC hunt they want all day miners without weapons on ships.
Why? CCP plan is easy they want our real money. If we need more time to get stuff then longer we would play. Pirates plan isn't so that clear, but it's particulary same. If normal player will have more money (spend less time making money) then better gear will be in his hands and more time he will have. Why this is so bad for pirates? Easy! If people will have better gear and more time in hands then people will hunt pirates around the EVE universe!
CCP did improve bounty with new BS spanws guess who starts first scream? Yes same guy as he posting in this thread! Coincidence? I guess not, he did scream becasue he did feel that is bad for him. So what CCP did fast? Lower bounty and buff these NPC pirates. After few CCP again decide buff NPC pirates and remove from us ability to EW these ships. It's plain stupid because player can't EW whole spawn but only one ship. So it wasn't easy kill as someone did mention. If you have spawn with three BS you can eliminate only one and fight with rest!
It wasn't easy before it's pain now. I can't count NPC hunting easy before and now it can't be called that way even. It's nerf no matter how famous pirate think about. What more it wasn't mentioned in patch notes (foolish tactics CCP!). Actually NPC pirates are uber resistant, uber caped, uber lock (in most cases I'm locked and with 50% shields when my screen loads) and uber spawn. Yes NPC pirates again spawn in less than 30km distance from you and insta lock with insta scrambling!
All what I see is graduated nerfing for our ISK income and this plan is CCP and pirate plan. CCP want poor players and pirates want poor victims with less time in hands to hunt them.
Not blame me for my english I guess no one of you understand it if I wrote it my language (shall you start learning Czech?)
|
Aelita
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 09:03:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Aelita on 09/07/2004 09:13:58
Let's face it. CCP don't want that we would be able make easy money in game. Pirates like doesn't like that we make money on NPC hunt they want all day miners without weapons on ships.
Why? CCP plan is easy they want our real money. If we need more time to get stuff then longer we would play. Pirates plan isn't so that clear, but it's particulary same. If normal player will have more money (spend less time making money) then better gear will be in his hands and more time he will have. Why this is so bad for pirates? Easy! If people will have better gear and more time in hands then people will hunt pirates around the EVE universe!
CCP did improve bounty with new BS spanws guess who starts first scream? Yes same guy as he posting in this thread! Coincidence? I guess not, he did scream becasue he did feel that is bad for him. So what CCP did fast? Lower bounty and buff these NPC pirates. After few CCP again decide buff NPC pirates and remove from us ability to EW these ships. It's plain stupid because player can't EW whole spawn but only one ship. So it wasn't easy kill as someone did mention. If you have spawn with three BS you can eliminate only one and fight with rest!
It wasn't easy before it's pain now. I can't count NPC hunting easy before and now it can't be called that way even. It's nerf no matter how famous pirate think about. What more it wasn't mentioned in patch notes (foolish tactics CCP!). Actually NPC pirates are uber resistant, uber caped, uber lock (in most cases I'm locked and with 50% shields when my screen loads) and uber spawn. Yes NPC pirates again spawn in less than 30km distance from you and insta lock with insta scrambling!
All what I see is graduated nerfing for our ISK income and this plan is CCP and pirate plan. CCP want poor players and pirates want poor victims with less time in hands to hunt them.
Not blame me for my english I guess no one of you understand it if I wrote it my language (shall you start learning Czech?)
|
WelshFox
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 09:47:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Al Thorr
I never voted you as my spokes person nor can I remember any such vote being cast ...... SO please clarify your so called position on these points tha you so vehemently subscribe to.
And the bull again, he never once said anything on behalf of the community, stop being such a baffoon and stop trying to hijack legit threads about NPC hunting, when your quite possibly just a fluffy little carebear.
|
WelshFox
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 09:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Al Thorr
I never voted you as my spokes person nor can I remember any such vote being cast ...... SO please clarify your so called position on these points tha you so vehemently subscribe to.
And the bull again, he never once said anything on behalf of the community, stop being such a baffoon and stop trying to hijack legit threads about NPC hunting, when your quite possibly just a fluffy little carebear.
|
Lucre
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 10:59:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Major Mayhem
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use?
Interesting point. With very occasional "racially pure" exceptions, most player corps have a total mix of ships from all races. Hell, many *players* fly a mix of ships from all races. So why is it that pirates fly fleets with a regimented purity of type that a regular fleet would envy?
Let's have some variety in the rats! Have the occasional Angel with a Gurista ship or Sansha with Serpentis. Make the players wake up as they meet ships of uncertain type and lethality! And make sure players can't optically configure for hunting in the sure and certain knowledge of what they'll be facing...
|
Lucre
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 10:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Major Mayhem
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use?
Interesting point. With very occasional "racially pure" exceptions, most player corps have a total mix of ships from all races. Hell, many *players* fly a mix of ships from all races. So why is it that pirates fly fleets with a regimented purity of type that a regular fleet would envy?
Let's have some variety in the rats! Have the occasional Angel with a Gurista ship or Sansha with Serpentis. Make the players wake up as they meet ships of uncertain type and lethality! And make sure players can't optically configure for hunting in the sure and certain knowledge of what they'll be facing...
|
Hanns
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 13:36:00 -
[83]
lol i was wondering what was going on, i had my scorp fitted with 4 ECM multis, logged off, logged back on started hunting and realized i couldnt jamm them anymore, i thought it was just me lol
|
Hanns
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 13:36:00 -
[84]
lol i was wondering what was going on, i had my scorp fitted with 4 ECM multis, logged off, logged back on started hunting and realized i couldnt jamm them anymore, i thought it was just me lol
|
Eyeshadow
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 14:51:00 -
[85]
Now the seriousness:
It is my understanding that NPC ships are NOT the standard player ships, they are pirate faction ships, tuned by the pirate factions. Obviously this is just story filler to say: the NPC's are not the same as player ships, they are souped up versions, probably cos theyre AI is so c**p. And not being able to jam them, fair enuf they shouldve told us but is it such a bad thing that theyre a bit harder to take out now? No, didnt think so
edited by Discordia
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Eyeshadow
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 14:51:00 -
[86]
Now the seriousness:
It is my understanding that NPC ships are NOT the standard player ships, they are pirate faction ships, tuned by the pirate factions. Obviously this is just story filler to say: the NPC's are not the same as player ships, they are souped up versions, probably cos theyre AI is so c**p. And not being able to jam them, fair enuf they shouldve told us but is it such a bad thing that theyre a bit harder to take out now? No, didnt think so
edited by Discordia
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Elandoria
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:01:00 -
[87]
ok group i think we lost focus somewhere, lets all hold hands... and pray to the nerf gods for they have forsaken us.
-----------------------------------------------
SAY NO TO SAFE SPOT REMOVALS!
----------------------------------------------- |
Elandoria
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:01:00 -
[88]
ok group i think we lost focus somewhere, lets all hold hands... and pray to the nerf gods for they have forsaken us.
-----------------------------------------------
SAY NO TO SAFE SPOT REMOVALS!
----------------------------------------------- |
FoRGyL
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:21:00 -
[89]
Perhaps a step in the line to STOP Chaining..perhaps!
-out-
Tbh ...just find out wich Dmg they do guard yourself and don't take for granted that just coz u shoot torp or cruise they will die fast ....Look at the Dmg type diffrent for all 5 types I think ...only the small Frigates seems to do diffrent dmg and how much do that heart?
-out-
If I wanted all things do be handed to me I would make it happen.
*********************************************************
Ohhhh iyayaayaya puff ohh iyaayaya puff puff
PVR =Player vs Roid! Burr, scary peps!!! |
FoRGyL
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:21:00 -
[90]
Perhaps a step in the line to STOP Chaining..perhaps!
-out-
Tbh ...just find out wich Dmg they do guard yourself and don't take for granted that just coz u shoot torp or cruise they will die fast ....Look at the Dmg type diffrent for all 5 types I think ...only the small Frigates seems to do diffrent dmg and how much do that heart?
-out-
If I wanted all things do be handed to me I would make it happen.
*********************************************************
Ohhhh iyayaayaya puff ohh iyaayaya puff puff
PVR =Player vs Roid! Burr, scary peps!!! |
Archa
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:55:00 -
[91]
It is incredible the way some of you people can whine about a nerf. My stuff has been nerfed many many times. Just move on. And frankly, if you look at it objectively. you know the ew was to powerful. Being able to targetjam 2 x 1.5 mil bs's and just float around them. that is just stupid.
Perhaps they should increase the npc bs ew status to 32 ew so it is harder to jam theM?
Just let it go and move on.
|
Archa
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:55:00 -
[92]
It is incredible the way some of you people can whine about a nerf. My stuff has been nerfed many many times. Just move on. And frankly, if you look at it objectively. you know the ew was to powerful. Being able to targetjam 2 x 1.5 mil bs's and just float around them. that is just stupid.
Perhaps they should increase the npc bs ew status to 32 ew so it is harder to jam theM?
Just let it go and move on.
|
Archa
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:56:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: Major Mayhem
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use?
Interesting point. With very occasional "racially pure" exceptions, most player corps have a total mix of ships from all races. Hell, many *players* fly a mix of ships from all races. So why is it that pirates fly fleets with a regimented purity of type that a regular fleet would envy?
Let's have some variety in the rats! Have the occasional Angel with a Gurista ship or Sansha with Serpentis. Make the players wake up as they meet ships of uncertain type and lethality! And make sure players can't optically configure for hunting in the sure and certain knowledge of what they'll be facing...
that might happen when jove space opens up soon...
|
Archa
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 15:56:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: Major Mayhem
Is it terribly wrong to have BS spawns that represent the same sort of ships that average players use?
Interesting point. With very occasional "racially pure" exceptions, most player corps have a total mix of ships from all races. Hell, many *players* fly a mix of ships from all races. So why is it that pirates fly fleets with a regimented purity of type that a regular fleet would envy?
Let's have some variety in the rats! Have the occasional Angel with a Gurista ship or Sansha with Serpentis. Make the players wake up as they meet ships of uncertain type and lethality! And make sure players can't optically configure for hunting in the sure and certain knowledge of what they'll be facing...
that might happen when jove space opens up soon...
|
Jhered Stern
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 18:41:00 -
[95]
I actually agree that with this fellow about NPC's and EW. i think the best way to handle this situation is when an MPC battle ship gets jammed have it do what any player with any real skill would do in that situation. Launch a **** load of drones and call for backup.
Basically, an NPC scorpion should not be found alone, but with a another battleship and the Scorpion AI should be set up to Jam the player while the other hammers him to pices.
NPC battleships should not be an easy fight but they should not be invulnerable either. If this is an AI problem talk to the people who made EQ the monster AI in that game is the best I have ever seen.
On the other hand every ship in the game has a weekness and it should be possible to exploit that weekness. Simply have the AI adapt to the exploit after a while.
*NOTE* my use of the word exploit here is in terms of skill not faulty game mechanics.
Jhered Out!
|
Jhered Stern
|
Posted - 2004.07.09 18:41:00 -
[96]
I actually agree that with this fellow about NPC's and EW. i think the best way to handle this situation is when an MPC battle ship gets jammed have it do what any player with any real skill would do in that situation. Launch a **** load of drones and call for backup.
Basically, an NPC scorpion should not be found alone, but with a another battleship and the Scorpion AI should be set up to Jam the player while the other hammers him to pices.
NPC battleships should not be an easy fight but they should not be invulnerable either. If this is an AI problem talk to the people who made EQ the monster AI in that game is the best I have ever seen.
On the other hand every ship in the game has a weekness and it should be possible to exploit that weekness. Simply have the AI adapt to the exploit after a while.
*NOTE* my use of the word exploit here is in terms of skill not faulty game mechanics.
Jhered Out!
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.07.09 20:34:00 -
[97]
As it stands I would say they are fairly balanced.
Like has been stated there are a few obvious probs with the loot tables but that's an easy fix.
As it stands there would be room to ***** if the AI's were tough. They are not. So to make up for that they nerfed perma spawning them gave them mediocre loot and toughened up their defenses.
Go to the NPC explorer on eve-i or eve-db and look at what the different mobs resist to and equip your ship appropirately.
Using missles is really only viable in the guristas as they drop s-loads of missles both torps and cruise. If their cost is that much of a concern.
Apocs and armaggedon make great NPC hunters because of the low ammo cost.
I only have about 8 mil worth of ship/gunnery skills and I find 2 BS + 4 cruisers doable solo. So I think you can make it work to.
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Hematic
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Posted - 2004.07.09 20:34:00 -
[98]
As it stands I would say they are fairly balanced.
Like has been stated there are a few obvious probs with the loot tables but that's an easy fix.
As it stands there would be room to ***** if the AI's were tough. They are not. So to make up for that they nerfed perma spawning them gave them mediocre loot and toughened up their defenses.
Go to the NPC explorer on eve-i or eve-db and look at what the different mobs resist to and equip your ship appropirately.
Using missles is really only viable in the guristas as they drop s-loads of missles both torps and cruise. If their cost is that much of a concern.
Apocs and armaggedon make great NPC hunters because of the low ammo cost.
I only have about 8 mil worth of ship/gunnery skills and I find 2 BS + 4 cruisers doable solo. So I think you can make it work to.
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Bhal'rog
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:03:00 -
[99]
The loot tables may seem strange but they are a necessity. We are already getting a nice bounties on the BSs, if you add battleship loot into every NPC BS you kill it will wreck the market for battleship mods.
The uberness of their ships is also required. As someone already stated, they do not fire FOF's, release drones, warp to safe spots or call in reenforcements. If they are jammed and can't shoot, do you expect them to march like lambs to the slaughter?
May be someone else could answer this question (me = Minmatar pilot who doesn't use EW): Where NPC battleships jammable prior to the latest patch? If they weren't, it was most likely a mistake that they could be jammed post patch and this "stealth nerf" was just a correction.
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Bhal'rog
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:03:00 -
[100]
The loot tables may seem strange but they are a necessity. We are already getting a nice bounties on the BSs, if you add battleship loot into every NPC BS you kill it will wreck the market for battleship mods.
The uberness of their ships is also required. As someone already stated, they do not fire FOF's, release drones, warp to safe spots or call in reenforcements. If they are jammed and can't shoot, do you expect them to march like lambs to the slaughter?
May be someone else could answer this question (me = Minmatar pilot who doesn't use EW): Where NPC battleships jammable prior to the latest patch? If they weren't, it was most likely a mistake that they could be jammed post patch and this "stealth nerf" was just a correction.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:09:00 -
[101]
Before Castor (pretty sure that is the right time frame), NPC's weren't jammable. Sometime after Castor they became jammable. Most recent patch - not jammable again.
In all that time, I don't recall CCP making a statement about this at all. My guess is they were never meant to be jammed and just reverted them back to their original behaviour.
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Beseb
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Posted - 2004.07.09 21:09:00 -
[102]
Before Castor (pretty sure that is the right time frame), NPC's weren't jammable. Sometime after Castor they became jammable. Most recent patch - not jammable again.
In all that time, I don't recall CCP making a statement about this at all. My guess is they were never meant to be jammed and just reverted them back to their original behaviour.
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Booky
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Posted - 2004.07.10 01:51:00 -
[103]
My %^$& is bigger than your %^$&  Hey at least im willing to share. Anyone want to use some of my 16 mil SP so they can whine some?
On the actualy topic, I think it is a good change. You shouldn't be able to automatically jam a NPC battleship and always jam him succesfully. Maybe make thier strength random, otherwise you can kill the small guys and then peck away at the big guy all day long.
As for profits, I use 5 Cruise launchers on my Raven and I figure it cost me about 70k or so in missles to kill a 750k battleship (Megathron) solo. That makes 680k profit, im am perfectly fine with that 
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Booky
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Posted - 2004.07.10 01:51:00 -
[104]
My %^$& is bigger than your %^$& Hey at least im willing to share. Anyone want to use some of my 16 mil SP so they can whine some?
On the actualy topic, I think it is a good change. You shouldn't be able to automatically jam a NPC battleship and always jam him succesfully. Maybe make thier strength random, otherwise you can kill the small guys and then peck away at the big guy all day long.
As for profits, I use 5 Cruise launchers on my Raven and I figure it cost me about 70k or so in missles to kill a 750k battleship (Megathron) solo. That makes 680k profit, im am perfectly fine with that
Spelling corrections welcome, but don't expect me to edit my post. |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.07.10 05:30:00 -
[105]
Im already ahead of you my subscription runs out the 14. I'll come back when eve gets taken over by a company that knows wtf there doing.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Frank Horrigan
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Posted - 2004.07.10 05:30:00 -
[106]
Im already ahead of you my subscription runs out the 14. I'll come back when eve gets taken over by a company that knows wtf there doing.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.07.10 10:47:00 -
[107]
beef!
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.07.10 10:47:00 -
[108]
beef!
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.07.10 11:18:00 -
[109]
Burn Baby Burn!!11!1
w00t!
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.07.10 11:18:00 -
[110]
Burn Baby Burn!!11!1
w00t!
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Recnac
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Posted - 2004.07.10 20:12:00 -
[111]
in answer to the origional question if it hasent been answered already
in the patch notes it states
Addition: All NPC's are now unjammable.
so it was intentional
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Recnac
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Posted - 2004.07.10 20:12:00 -
[112]
in answer to the origional question if it hasent been answered already
in the patch notes it states
Addition: All NPC's are now unjammable.
so it was intentional
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Taylor08
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Posted - 2004.07.11 02:32:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Taylor08 on 11/07/2004 02:34:11
my god, that is so ***, ccp tries to make the npcs more realistic only to make htem unjammable?!?!?!?!
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Taylor08
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Posted - 2004.07.11 02:32:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Taylor08 on 11/07/2004 02:34:11
my god, that is so ***, ccp tries to make the npcs more realistic only to make htem unjammable?!?!?!?!
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CmdrRat
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Posted - 2004.07.11 07:16:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Adriana
First of all the scorpion is designed primarily for EW is it not? So if you take away it's ability to do that on npc ships you make it useless right?
So so so so right. I just jumped in to a belt with 2 500K BS's and they totaly owned me when I hit the jammers.
I had 5 multi spec and couldn't jam one of them. Wish I had know that.
I wouldn't have lost that scorpion. I wouldn't be in debt. I wouldn't have lost those named mods.
But I'll make do as I always have, I'll just stop trying to play "smart" and play with a bigger stick.
/me gets his megathron
________________________________________________
Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything |
CmdrRat
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Posted - 2004.07.11 07:16:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Adriana
First of all the scorpion is designed primarily for EW is it not? So if you take away it's ability to do that on npc ships you make it useless right?
So so so so right. I just jumped in to a belt with 2 500K BS's and they totaly owned me when I hit the jammers.
I had 5 multi spec and couldn't jam one of them. Wish I had know that.
I wouldn't have lost that scorpion. I wouldn't be in debt. I wouldn't have lost those named mods.
But I'll make do as I always have, I'll just stop trying to play "smart" and play with a bigger stick.
/me gets his megathron
________________________________________________
Except for Ending Slavery, Fascism and communism, War Has Never Solved Anything |
McFly
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Posted - 2004.07.11 08:56:00 -
[117]
And still no response from CCP? must be a SoonÖ thing.
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McFly
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Posted - 2004.07.11 08:56:00 -
[118]
And still no response from CCP? must be a SoonÖ thing.
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Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.07.11 09:15:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 11/07/2004 09:18:15
Originally by: Al Thorr
Always thought npc BS should be very hard to kill / jamm . if its easy then whats the point? sorry cant understand the whine - a bs is the top of the range ship and if your bs was nerfed in the same way you would complain even more vociferously. imho
Spelling mistakes included :)
Regards Al Thorr
Just a small point, but using CCP's own vision for ship types, im betting that multiple frigate users that try to warp scram/jam/whatever an NPC batleship get boned in a heartbeat, whereas they will live vs a PC bs.
Having said that tho, i think BS should be well ard, and amazingly hard to kill.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
Xtro 2
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Posted - 2004.07.11 09:15:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Xtro 2 on 11/07/2004 09:18:15
Originally by: Al Thorr
Always thought npc BS should be very hard to kill / jamm . if its easy then whats the point? sorry cant understand the whine - a bs is the top of the range ship and if your bs was nerfed in the same way you would complain even more vociferously. imho
Spelling mistakes included :)
Regards Al Thorr
Just a small point, but using CCP's own vision for ship types, im betting that multiple frigate users that try to warp scram/jam/whatever an NPC batleship get boned in a heartbeat, whereas they will live vs a PC bs.
Having said that tho, i think BS should be well ard, and amazingly hard to kill.
__________________________________________
Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights. |
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