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Heavy stealthbomber

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Red zeon Caldari Circle of Shadows Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.11.24 15:26:00 - [1] what do you guys think if ccp would implement a heavy stealth bomber. destroyer class hull (destroyer lvl5 would be needed, maybe even covOps 4or5 preferably 5) with 3 torp launchers destroyer skill bonus 15% torpedo velocity and 5% decrease in explotion radius heavy destroyer skill bonus 5% to torpedo launcher rate of fire. that would give same dmg bonus as a raven has, would be like a half of a volley from a raven with worse rof. and with max skills the explotion radius would be 300m3 wich would not make it overpowered but better against bs than stealth bomber and alot worse on ships smaller than bs (exeption maybe bc)
HanRolo	Posted - 2008.11.24 15:36:00 - [2] This idea I like! although my races dessy looks lame :( hahaha like the rest of the cloakers. /signed
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2008.11.24 16:46:00 - [3] Or even heavier and bigger... Some cruiser class and citadel torps? A bomber that would be better than using bombs vs a capital ship? And that would be slightly better than the current bomber on BS? The issue for T2 cruisers is the price vs efficiency... -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Assault Frigates MK II
Yesukhei Gallente Meridian 13 AAA Citizens	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Yesukhei on 24/11/2008 17:04:43 Before creating a new Stealth Bomber CCP have to balance the old one, which is mostly useless in all situations it had been designed for.
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:07:00 - [5] you mean like this? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=932016&page=1 I proposed the current bomber to be CHANGED to a destroyer hull. It never made sense for it to be a frigate. Skill requirement for the bomber would be racial frigate 5 and destroyers 3 Give the bomber the hulls of the shuttles each race uses except caldari (the cormorant is too cool for words), supersize them to destroyer size and give them a darker camo paint job. As they are destroyer sized, their signature is larger as is their shields and armor. With the increase in size and mirroring their destroyer heritage, adjust the ship's stats and bonuses thus: 8 highslots (6 launcher, 2 turret) Mid and lowslot would vary depending on race. Make them match the current bomber mid and lowslot setup, it works fine. - 50% refire rate for all launchers. + X % increase in damage of heavy missiles and siege torpedoes per destroyer level + X % damage bonus to damage type for bombs, siege torps and heavy missiles (racial) - X % in PG / CPU reduction of Siege Launchers per Torpedo Specialization level (enough so it fits 4 at torp spec 5) - X % in PG / CPU reduction of Bomb Launchers per Bomb launcher level (at lev 5 2 bomb launchers can be fitted) - X % in PG / CPU reduction of cloaking device to per cloaking level. Box 3 = improved cloak II, box 5= covop cloak. - X % reduction in lock time after de-cloak based on COVOP skill (no delay to lock at level 5 covop) + X % speed increase when cloaked based on Cloaking Skill level (200% at level 5 cloaking) (max capability of this ship is 6 heavy launchers or 2 bomb launchers or 4 torp + 2 heavy launchers at max skills..plus the cloak of course) This new bomber design would have its weaponry capability 'scaled' to the player's skills. As you can see, this bomber has MANY skills required to acquire full capability. The basic setup is Heavy Missiles and Cloak. Heavy missiles with the scaled damage bonus makes it very effective vs cruiser sized hulls when we look at alpha damage (50% penalty to refire rate remember that!). It also does not have full speed when cloaked nor no-lock-delay when uncloaking unless player gets box 5 of the covop/cloak skills. No covops cloak ability unless the required skill box is reached. As the player's skill level increases, the player receives the ability to deal higher damage via the use of multiple siege torpedoes and/or bomb launchers. At max skills the bomber player is a fearsome opponent yet still needs to work in a team to bring down a large target. This would make the bomber pilot a missile specialist with capability of attacking ships bigger than itself (cruiser/BC/BS) effectively from stealth, yet be quite weak against its immediate sized ships (cruisers and frigates). I believe the heavy missiles, with their better explosion velocity, good range and better refire rate.. once the bomber damage bonus is applied, would make an excellent alternative to using the current cruise missiles with the new missile rules. Heavies bracket the bomber to attacking haulers, cruisers and can hurt battlecruisers. Ideal for range attacks and fire support (given 6 heavies are being fired) When the bomber 'goes heavy' and packs bombs or siege torpedoes with the damage bonuses to them, it is bracketed to be effective vs battlecruisers (if lase painted) and battleships. ------------------------------------------------- Re-Design Stealth Bomber Weapons!
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:13:00 - [6] How about introducing a gunnery equivalent of the original SB before you add any more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game?.
Tac Ginaz Gallente Coalition of Nations	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:36:00 - [7] Originally by: lecrotta How about introducing a gunnery equivalent of the original SB before you add any more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game?. Because guns are insta-damage. missiles fly to target and give warning to the person being attacked. the risk or difficulty of using a gun-equipped bomber would never be the same as a missile bomber. ------------------------------------------------- Re-Design Stealth Bomber Weapons!
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:50:00 - [8] Personally I'd like bombers to completely change, make them innefective against frigs, cruisers and to some extend BC's. - lower flight speed - increase flight time - range 200-250km - no ROF bonus - massively increase base damage - make them more affected by target's sig radius and speed so they only hit almost stationary, big stuff - give them 'fire and forget', being able to cloak a short amount of time (10 seconds?) before impact - can't hit frigs/cruisers for crap or anything moving over (say)350m/s - BS get hit for a reasonable amount meaning 4 bombers can down a BS in a low number of cycles Essentially turn them into slow but devastating torpedoes. - possibly give them siege mode, changing bonuses even more so it's only suitable against POS's. This would make POS warfare less bulky and 'big alliance' only and would allow for less rigid play mechanics. Cyno jammer doesn't automatically mean your POS is safe, smaller entities can harass bigger alliances easier, breaking the SOV stalemate somewhat.
Red zeon Caldari Circle of Shadows Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2008.11.25 10:39:00 - [9] Tac Ginaz not like your idea. why cant stealthbombers be frig class? theyr are usually smaller than big bombers and pack a nice punch or have i missed anything. and stealth bomber is one of my fav pvp ship. it was well balanced before the qr anyway and heavy stealthbomber with my idea is not that bad idea now in qr since the signature radius makes a big difference
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.11.25 10:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Tac Ginaz Originally by: lecrotta How about introducing a gunnery equivalent of the original SB before you add any more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game?. Because guns are insta-damage. missiles fly to target and give warning to the person being attacked. the risk or difficulty of using a gun-equipped bomber would never be the same as a missile bomber. It still does not justify having more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game, and considering the proposed bonuses are to torps the travel delay is hardly a issue either.
CrestoftheStars Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.25 11:17:00 - [11] not destroyrs hull. but cruisers maybe :P ___________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.11.25 11:45:00 - [12] Why not just allow SB's to warp, target and fire whilst cloaked, the ship becomes visible but not lockable whilst the missiles are within 2000m of it and you can see the direction the missiles/bombs are coming from and just send your cloakers/inties to where he fired from.. Stealth bombers would suddenly becomes as cool as blockade runners are now.. Coupled with allowing covert cyno's to pierce cyno jammers too. Oh wowser, the game just swung away from capitals online... -- The views expressed in this post are mine and in no way reflect those of my Corp or Alliance. CCP Priorities need to change! P1 Fix the Netcode so it's playable. P2 Let me walk around an egg
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.25 13:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Star Nove Why not just allow SB's to warp, target and fire whilst cloaked, the ship becomes visible but not lockable whilst the missiles are within 2000m of it and you can see the direction the missiles/bombs are coming from and just send your cloakers/inties to where he fired from.. Why not just give them 1,000,000 dmg per missile as well along with a cloak they can lock and fire through as well as a couple of hundred thousand extra HP and a dozen or so anti scram points just in case????????????...... POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Fenren Minmatar Bure Astro Photography	Posted - 2008.11.25 13:40:00 - [14] Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Tac Ginaz Originally by: lecrotta How about introducing a gunnery equivalent of the original SB before you add any more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game?. Because guns are insta-damage. missiles fly to target and give warning to the person being attacked. the risk or difficulty of using a gun-equipped bomber would never be the same as a missile bomber. It still does not justify having more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game, and considering the proposed bonuses are to torps the travel delay is hardly a issue either. if you cant see why that would be overpowered, or if you like overpowered things, there isnt much to add
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.11.25 13:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Fenren Originally by: lecrotta Originally by: Tac Ginaz Originally by: lecrotta How about introducing a gunnery equivalent of the original SB before you add any more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game?. Because guns are insta-damage. missiles fly to target and give warning to the person being attacked. the risk or difficulty of using a gun-equipped bomber would never be the same as a missile bomber. It still does not justify having more "missile user only" specialized high alpha + cloaking bonus'd ships to the game, and considering the proposed bonuses are to torps the travel delay is hardly a issue either. if you cant see why that would be overpowered, or if you like overpowered things, there isnt much to add Considering this is yet another SB thread and most are full of "fire while cloaked", "3 volley a BS", "dread missile systems", "cov ops cloaks" crap ppl want on a frigate id say asking for summat that would be SLIGHTLY more powerful than the SB as it is right now is hardly a big deal.
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.11.25 14:42:00 - [16] Edited by: Star Nove on 25/11/2008 14:42:56 Originally by: Murina Originally by: Star Nove Why not just allow SB's to warp, target and fire whilst cloaked, the ship becomes visible but not lockable whilst the missiles are within 2000m of it and you can see the direction the missiles/bombs are coming from and just send your cloakers/inties to where he fired from.. Why not just give them 1,000,000 dmg per missile as well along with a cloak they can lock and fire through as well as a couple of hundred thousand extra HP and a dozen or so anti scram points just in case????????????...... Because that would be lame and overpowered.... This is a STEALTH BOMBER, which implies it can approach it's target and deploy it's weapons without ending up dead almost every time it decloaks.. It can't warp cloaked so there's no stealth approach involved unless it's been afk in the system for a while and there's no stealth attack either as for it to do any damage it needs to stay visible for the entire time it takes the missiles to hit or stay within locking range of almost every small tackling ship in the game that hasn't got 3 warp stabs on it. I'm not saying make them overpowered, just make them live up to their name.. -- The views expressed in this post are mine and in no way reflect those of my Corp or Alliance. CCP Priorities need to change! P1 Fix the Netcode so it's playable. P2 Let me walk around an egg
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.11.25 14:56:00 - [17] To take it further and counter the argument I just had with myself;) Set it so that for your missiles to do any damage, you have to keep the target locked at all times. if you warp off or otherwise break lock (going out of range, docking, etc) the missiles don't do any damage to the target..
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.25 14:59:00 - [18] Edited by: Murina on 25/11/2008 15:01:00 Originally by: Star Nove Why not just allow SB's to warp, target and fire whilst cloaked, the ship becomes visible but not lockable whilst the missiles are within 2000m of it and you can see the direction the missiles/bombs are coming from and just send your cloakers/inties to where he fired from.. So you want a essentially unkillable ship?, unless you just happen to have a titan with a DDD on grid with it?. Or the SB pilot fires and then is stupid enough to sit still while your ceptors burn out to around the area he fired from hoping to uncloak the SB that can be aligned and ready to insta warp if they do???. How about NO. PS: The fact it can travel faster cloaked and has no locking penalties covers the stealth part of its name, trying to that it as justification to make it virtually unkillable is just stupid. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Midday Toker	Posted - 2008.11.25 15:41:00 - [19] Edited by: Midday Toker on 25/11/2008 15:41:16 Desi based torp bomber sounds like tons of fun
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.11.25 15:54:00 - [20] how about you read my post where I said it has to keep it's lock or it does no damage. So warping off or moving out of range does it no good as it does no damage.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.25 16:00:00 - [21] Edited by: Murina on 25/11/2008 16:04:19 Originally by: Star Nove how about you read my post where I said it has to keep it's lock or it does no damage. So warping off or moving out of range does it no good as it does no damage. Riiiiiight so it can lock and fire cloaked and align at a angle to stay in lock range after firing........ but if it somehow gets caught and uncloaked (or summat just looks like getting close) it can still warp off, missing out on a hit/kill but still being virtually uncatchable. Are you drunk , just utterly mental or totally inexperianced?. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.11.25 16:12:00 - [22] Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 25/11/2008 16:04:19 Originally by: Star Nove how about you read my post where I said it has to keep it's lock or it does no damage. So warping off or moving out of range does it no good as it does no damage. Riiiiiight so it can lock and fire cloaked and align at a angle to stay in lock range after firing........ but if it somehow gets caught and uncloaked (or summat just looks like getting close) it can still warp off, missing out on a hit/kill but still being virtually uncatchable. Are you drunk , just utterly mental or totally inexperianced?. It's a STEALTH BOMBER, it's meant to be hard to kill and making it sacrifice doing damage/getting a kill for staying alive is a bad thing? Neither mental, drunk nor inexperienced in PVP combat but keep with the personal insults as your argument falls on it's face.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.25 16:24:00 - [23] Originally by: Star Nove Originally by: Murina Originally by: Star Nove how about you read my post where I said it has to keep it's lock or it does no damage. So warping off or moving out of range does it no good as it does no damage. Riiiiiight so it can lock and fire cloaked and align at a angle to stay in lock range after firing........ but if it somehow gets caught and uncloaked (or summat just looks like getting close) it can still warp off, missing out on a hit/kill but still being virtually uncatchable. Are you drunk , just utterly mental or totally inexperianced?. It's a STEALTH BOMBER, it's meant to be hard to kill and making it sacrifice doing damage/getting a kill for staying alive is a bad thing? STEALTH as in getting a bonus to cloaking operation?. BOMBER as in the ability to use bombs?. I guess it works fine then as its got both those attributes as well as a few others. PS: It is also a frig so its supposed to be thin. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Shadow of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2008.11.25 16:34:00 - [24] Edited by: Star Nove on 25/11/2008 16:34:51 Originally by: Murina PS: It is also a frig so its supposed to be thin, so no I-WIN ship for you today......noob. Yep, r*tard. What, re tard is a banned word? Oh please.
HanRolo	Posted - 2008.11.25 17:01:00 - [25] This was a good idea, Please don't flame this to pieces! Just cause some people want to make it realistic doesn't mean it has to be unbalanced. I am a SB pilot and I think perma cloaking is too much :) although warping would be acceptable IMHO Shooting needs to be dangerous, And the weakness? I think it needs to be priced at around 60M and have the same HP as a standard cruiser that makes it pretty weak stronger compared to the SB hit points but a lot easier to lock is this unbalanced?
StarStryder Zero-Hour	Posted - 2008.11.25 18:27:00 - [26] Edited by: StarStryder on 25/11/2008 18:27:44 Edited by: StarStryder on 25/11/2008 18:27:20 Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 25/11/2008 16:04:19 Originally by: Star Nove how about you read my post where I said it has to keep it's lock or it does no damage. So warping off or moving out of range does it no good as it does no damage. Riiiiiight so it can lock and fire cloaked and align at a angle to stay in lock range after firing........ but if it somehow gets caught and uncloaked (or summat just looks like getting close) it can still warp off, missing out on a hit/kill but still being virtually uncatchable. Are you drunk , just utterly mental or totally inexperianced?. Why don't you stop being an argumentative cow and actually try to say something useful. That would make a pleasant change wouldn't it? Anyway, I sort of like the idea of bombers appearing when they fire and then disappearing again. How about, in addition to Star Nove's idea, aggression while cloaked prevents warp for x minutes? Not sure what the RP justification would be but it would make things interesting.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.25 18:43:00 - [27] Edited by: Murina on 25/11/2008 18:46:30 Originally by: StarStryder Why don't you stop being an argumentative cow and actually try to say something useful. That would make a pleasant change wouldn't it? Oh joy i have gained a stalker. Originally by: StarStryder Anyway, I sort of like the idea of bombers appearing when they fire and then disappearing again. How about, in addition to Star Nove's idea, aggression while cloaked prevents warp for x minutes? Not sure what the RP justification would be but it would make things interesting. So we now want a Unlockable claoked frig, that can target and fire cloaked, with a high alpha dmg bonus, moves faster cloaked than uncloaked and has no locking of targeting penalty....is their anything else you would like on this frigate while your at it?. Noobs still looking for a I-WIN frig much?. PS: Go away troll. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
InfamousOne Chaos Coalition Chaotic Evolution	Posted - 2008.11.25 20:45:00 - [28] Edited by: InfamousOne on 25/11/2008 20:52:48 From what I have been reading, your the only troll present on this thread Murina, in all of your post all you have done is mock and make fun of those trying to be constructive in hashing out viable option(s), there is no reason to be rude to other members in our community for putting up ideas, at least they are trying to come up with something that would work for most everyone, unlike yourself. That is unless you were serious about the 1,000,000 dmg bonus which I don't think anyone would support. I like the idea of a heavy SB using either a dessy or cruiser hull and carrying torps would be interesting. I think citadel torps are overkill and are extremely slow. As far as firing while cloaked, I don't think this should be allowed, maybe if the pilot could lock the target while cloaked, like passive targeting systems or maybe a module that the pilot has to activate. The pilot would still have to decloak to fire and should have to stay uncloaked until after the missiles impact. With that being said, maybe the bonuses should be re-visited, here are the current bonuses for the caldari SB Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile damage and -16.66% reduction in Explosion Radius of Cruise Missiles per level Covert Ops Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Cruise Missile and bomb kinetic damage and 25% bonus to cloaked velocity per level Role Bonus: -99% reduction in Cruise Launcher powergrid needs, -99% reduction in Bomb Launcher CPU use and -100% targeting delay after decloaking I suggest taking away the cloaked velocity bonus and the 5% bonus to cruise/torp missile dmg and replace it with a cruise/torp missile velocity bonus to time to target is shorter. This would make the ship alittle more effective and will require skill to time it right, but it will still be vulnerable to ceptors and such. Reason not to use guns is this...After decloak, insta-lock, fire, cloak....not really enough time to do much dmg but it also doesn't allow the enemy even the slightest chance of retaliation, at least with missiles, the SB is visable and vulnerable during the duration of the missiles flight. Still needs work, but just some thoughts. I am all for heavy SB's though, need to fix the ones we have now first.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.25 20:58:00 - [29] Originally by: InfamousOne From what I have been reading, your the only troll present on this thread that stands out Murina. Strange how the ppl supporting such am imbalanced addition (oops i mean ANOTHER imbalanced addition as gunships do not have a equivalent ship to the original SB yet) think im the troll. How about adding a frig gunship for each of the other three races that has similar bonuses, range and large weapons systems along with tracking bonuses to make them hit similar sized targets for roughly the same dmg amount?. POST NERF PVP SKILLS: "shall we engage?" "hmmm how many ships do they have?" "more than us" "lets not bother then" "WOW great job FC!!!!" ".................
InfamousOne Chaos Coalition Chaotic Evolution	Posted - 2008.11.25 21:05:00 - [30] I would support gunships, a turret variation of the SB's, could be quite interesting, if a thread for one is ever started then I will read it and if it makes sense to me I will support it. Also, FYI, I am supporting the idea of a heavy SB and the fact that SB's in general need to be looked at as a whole, all races. I don't want to see unbalanced ships and such enter the game, that would ruin the gameplay for alot of players and I would hate to see that.

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