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Khraunus
Amarr
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.27 04:12:00 -
[31]
Agreed, except ishkur and harpy both need a serious nerf. In the hands of a competent pilot these will kill just about any other ship. Thank god there aren't many competent harpy/ishkur pilots out there though...
Most importantly, how are you supposed to tell whether this is part of my post or my signature? |
xhardxcorex
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Posted - 2008.11.27 05:32:00 -
[32]
I make no comment about the Min and Gal AFs as I have little/no experience with them.
+1 lows on the Harpy and Hawk is out of line with the Caldari's general line of design. The Harpy is fine as is. Explain to me why the Harpy needs an extra low slot. The Hawk only needs an extra low because it's CPU/PG ratio is set for a turret/missile boat hybrid... and it only has bonuses for missiles. The extra low could only be used for a overdrive injector (or a second depending on your fit) or a fitting bonus. Even with decent skills the fitting is tight. Adding an extra low is silly. You can only put a fitting bonus or a speed upgrade of some kind on it. And does that really fix the Hawk's problems? I don't think it does.
+1 mid on the Retibution is a bad idea. This stems from the thinking that all frigates should tackle all the time. Closeminded thinking stifles potential. The retribution isn't for tackling. Somehow I don't think CCP intended assualt frigates mainly for tackling but just 'overlooked' one and only put one midslot on it. That's bordering on insulting.
Stop looking for a solopwnmobile.
Stop looking for an easy answer to every situation.
All ships and all (good) fittings are situational.
No one and no ship should do well at everything.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2008.11.27 06:37:00 -
[33]
id prefer that missing 4th bonus
EVE history
t2 precisions |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2008.11.27 06:42:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking.
The new scrambler lets you turn off a ships MWD and put a point on it. The wolf is excellent for tackling larger ships not likely to be sporting an AB. I have had great success w/ it.
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Dr Sheepbringer
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.27 07:23:00 -
[35]
I also think one shouldn't add any slots. Yes, they would benefit from it, but they shouldn't be all rounders. It would be rather boring if every ship could do everything. They should get a new bonus though.
There should only a be a few ships that can do everything, but majority should have specific roles. So that one HAS TO choose a ship, not just have a common "use a drake" syndrome.
Stop whining. |
abrasive soap
HOMELESS.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 07:45:00 -
[36]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 07:46:45
Originally by: xhardxcorex
I make no comment about the Min and Gal AFs as I have little/no experience with them.
+1 lows on the Harpy and Hawk is out of line with the Caldari's general line of design. The Harpy is fine as is. Explain to me why the Harpy needs an extra low slot. The Hawk only needs an extra low because it's CPU/PG ratio is set for a turret/missile boat hybrid... and it only has bonuses for missiles. The extra low could only be used for a overdrive injector (or a second depending on your fit) or a fitting bonus. Even with decent skills the fitting is tight. Adding an extra low is silly. You can only put a fitting bonus or a speed upgrade of some kind on it. And does that really fix the Hawk's problems? I don't think it does.
+1 mid on the Retibution is a bad idea. This stems from the thinking that all frigates should tackle all the time. Closeminded thinking stifles potential. The retribution isn't for tackling. Somehow I don't think CCP intended assualt frigates mainly for tackling but just 'overlooked' one and only put one midslot on it. That's bordering on insulting.
Stop looking for a solopwnmobile.
Stop looking for an easy answer to every situation.
All ships and all (good) fittings are situational.
No one and no ship should do well at everything.
I'm not asking for 5 heavies like the pre-patch myrmidon I am asking for 1 midslot so I can use a scrambler with a retribution. If anything, the ishkur is overpowered.The retribution is not a mobile dps platform because as of now the ishkur, a tackling assault frigate, out damages the retribution. I cannot see how 190 dps with 60 dps tank and a scrambler is a "solopwnmobile" or "overpowered". The reason why assault frigates are now useful is that interceptors are too slow without a tank now. This role is tackling.
Currently, this is what happens in a retribution:
a) You try to have some fun and solo pvp. You find a ship and engage it. You then:
i)Lose transversal and lose your ship very quickly.
ii)Watch in horror as another af or interceptor kites you or out tracks you in its optimal.
iii)The ship warps out because you either don't have an afterburner or a scrambler.
b)You are forced to blob. You fly with a frig heavy gang. You:
i)Do less dps than the vast majority of frigs that have tackle.
ii)You go to scout a system and you fail miserably at tackling anything because you have no tackle.
Having 2 mid slots is far from overpowered.
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Elhina Novae
Sky's Edge
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:08:00 -
[37]
Remove the 5th highslot from the retribution and give it another mid o.o
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Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
...
There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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royal killer
Amarr
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:16:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
As much as it pains me, giving the Retri another mid would make it so overpowered it would probably become the AF of choice. Simply adding slots to a ship (and even more a whole bunch of them.... jeez) is the non-smart way of doing things.
So, no.
It is the way of solving the Retribution problem(1 mid only), wich I've hate since I first flew one, adding another slot would not make it overpowered, it'll just make it more versatile. Now adding +2 more would...(which would be awesome tho )
--------------------
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello and w
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners. |
Princess Scarlite
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:21:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 26/11/2008 19:38:34
... and flip the weapon bonuses between Wolf & Jaguar.
this :)
__________________________
This Character is for sale :)
Current bid is 1,4b. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:22:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/11/2008 08:22:08
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking.
Retribution + 2 mids = BS killer.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
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abrasive soap
HOMELESS.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:27:00 -
[41]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 08:27:36
Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/11/2008 08:22:08
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking.
Retribution + 2 mids = BS killer.
Retribution + 2 mids = usable? (not counting the mid it has already)
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Elhina Novae
Sky's Edge
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:27:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/11/2008 08:22:08
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking.
Retribution + 2 mids = BS killer.
Lies. Boost the smexy Retribution
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Originally by: Boz Well
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
...
There's an Amarr problem?
Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
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abrasive soap
HOMELESS.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:28:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Elhina Novae
Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 27/11/2008 08:22:08
Originally by: Dasalt Istgut
Honestly the Ishkur, Harpy and Jaguar are fine. The wolf and enyo are in dire need of a mid. The retribution is in dire need of at least one mid, probably two. The hawk just has a lot of problems and probably needs a ground up rethinking.
Retribution + 2 mids = BS killer.
Lies. Boost the smexy Retribution
YES
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Funfactor
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:31:00 -
[44]
Onestly i think AF's are litle monsters now and they do not need further upgrades. The only exception would be retribution as it has 1 mid slot.
Ishkur - best at class in my opinion. There is no need to add any bonuses because it is very powerful as it is now. Additional dmg bonus would make it overpowered.
Enyo - pumps out decent dmg without drones.
Hawk - fit it the right way and it will serve you well.
Harpy - good sniper.
Vengance - superb tanking.
I cant judge about jaguar's or wolf's bonuses as i dont fly them but i can see peaple use both of them a lot now. When i was fighting against them with my own assult frigs it looked like they do just fine.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:43:00 -
[45]
Originally by: abrasive soap
Retribution + 2 mids = usable? (not counting the mid it has already)
It is already a good AF just not in the way you'd like it to..and he suggested two more mids for a total of three which would be totally out of whack.
Wyvern & Chimera fitting flowchart |
abrasive soap
HOMELESS.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:53:00 -
[46]
Edited by: abrasive soap on 27/11/2008 09:01:20
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: abrasive soap
Retribution + 2 mids = usable? (not counting the mid it has already)
It is already a good AF just not in the way you'd like it to..and he suggested two more mids for a total of three which would be totally out of whack.
1 more mid would make it usable. 2 more would make it overpowered.
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royal killer
Amarr
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2008.11.27 08:58:00 -
[47]
He's right, a Retribution with 3 medium slots would be absolutely overpowered.
--------------------
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello and w
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners. |
Velvet Spice
Spice World
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Posted - 2008.11.27 09:22:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Eluhaf
I find that the hawk is better than many of the exisitng AFs (enyo, retribution, vengenance) when fitted with an active tank. Heck I lost an arbi to a hawk, that had in the same set up pawned both a 3 man and a 4 man AF gang (all after QR).
if you really lost an Arbitrator to an AF that has less DPS than a Kestrel, you fail on a massive scale
oh, the ship also barely has the fitting to use a full T2 setup with the intended active tank, let alone enough to use the utility high slot - in short, no, the Hawk isn't up there with the acceptable AFs at all
and whoever said the Ishkur and Harpy are overpowered needs to get his head checked
I eat carebears for breakfast |
Poena Loveless
Minmatar
Dawn of a new Empire
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Posted - 2008.11.27 10:25:00 -
[49]
As far as I see it, AFs's roles are defensive in nature (protecting BSes from tacklers). They all have their own ways of doing that, either by range alpha style (jag/sniper harpy) or close range maulers.
Any argument sayng AFs are tacklers is flawed. Inties are tacklers, AFs are anti tacklers.
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Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.27 10:32:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Mister Xerox
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 26/11/2008 19:38:34
... and flip the weapon bonuses between Wolf & Jaguar.
for the love of christ
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Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.11.27 10:54:00 -
[51]
the retribution is fine and has a rly nice dps output. I bet it can pop inties T1 Frigs and even some AS before they can get into warp.
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baltec1
R.U.S.T.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 11:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
the retribution is fine and has a rly nice dps output. I bet it can pop inties T1 Frigs and even some AS before they can get into warp.
They can also beat up some HACs
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.27 11:45:00 -
[53]
Edited by: RedSplat on 27/11/2008 11:46:15
Originally by: Poena Loveless
As far as I see it, AFs's roles are defensive in nature (protecting BSes from tacklers). They all have their own ways of doing that, either by range alpha style (jag/sniper harpy) or close range maulers.
Any argument sayng AFs are tacklers is flawed. Inties are tacklers, AFs are anti tacklers.
The Jag is not a useful artillery boat as it currently is. The Wolf as a 'close range mauler' suffers from the fact that it uses AC's and could do with another low (lest it is just an expensive glass cannon, a Ruppy is still a better use of isk than a Wolf as current); that said i can get OK dps out of it with my crappy skills if i use Hail.
As anti tacklers they do well, but lets be honest so do a half dozen t1 frigs.
I don't want to set the world on fire |
Velvet Spice
Spice World
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Posted - 2008.11.27 11:52:00 -
[54]
Want a ship that can instapop other frigates? Up to 8 guns, range or tracking bonuses, for less than 1m per hull. Look no further.
Just because some AFs "work" doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. You lots have to define a role first before you can go "they're fine" or "let's add slots", and no, just being "advanced" frigates isn't a role.
I eat carebears for breakfast |
ouroboros trading
Gallente
Medics On Fire
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Posted - 2008.11.27 11:55:00 -
[55]
giving the retribution another mid would turn it into a pile of steaming bastard pwnage. it's should keep one mid and only ever have one mid.
156713? That's Numberwang! |
baltec1
R.U.S.T.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.11.27 11:58:00 -
[56]
Originally by: ouroboros trading
giving the retribution another mid would turn it into a pile of steaming bastard pwnage. it's should keep one mid and only ever have one mid.
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Dihania
Gallente
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:02:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
So, no.
there.
[hrhr]
Sniggwaffe is recruiting. Visit channel "join sniggwaffe" in game.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:11:00 -
[58]
Ｒｅｔｒｉｂｕｔｉｏｎ ｄｏｅｓ ａ ｌｏｔ ｏｆ ｄｐｓ． ． ．ａｄｄｉｎｇ ａｎｏｔｈｅｒ ｍｉｄ ｗｏｕｌｄ ｍａｋｅ ｉｔ ｖｅｒｙ ｖｅｒｙ ｐｏｗｅｒｆｕｌ．
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ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:24:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dyaven
Let's face it, AFs got better with the last patch but they still suck.
QFT
If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
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dojocan81
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Posted - 2008.11.27 13:27:00 -
[60]
yeah, give all marauder one med slot too!! they have fewer slots than their t1 pendants!!!
uhmmm....
yeah, give AF's one slot more !!
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