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What's so great about a single server anyway?

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Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:21:00 - [31] Quote: Yes, this was in 0.0. And I'm sure there's some new technology on the horizon. My question is simply why they have to stick to the single-server concept at all? What's wrong with shards? Why should anything that I'm doing alone in system A be impacted by what's going on in system B? It's your computer. Change your settings, configure your overview. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:23:00 - [32] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 28/11/2008 00:26:33 Originally by: Potrero I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? Read pretty much all of the infiniband thread (well prior to it turning into a C++ is better than Python my language is better than yours debate) and you will understand what's going on. You're not 'spread out' at all because I'm afraid a single CPU core was calculating the in-space simulation across multiple solar systems. So you, and the rest of the 300 ships, and anyone else, belt and gate rats and so on in a number of systems all shared the same CPU core. Some other services (chat, market etc.) were running on other cores. Effectively eve is divided up into multiple instances that can all synchronise with each other and share a single database. So we kinda already have a shared system but with data integrity between shards. The HPC/Infiniband roll-out plus on-going code refactoring should incrementally improve performance but until they can smoothly distribute the in-space simulation across multiple cores and eventually multiple hosts there will always be an upper limit to fleet PvP. What that limit is and how things will improve in 09... who knows. CCP have said however that they don't anticpate moving away from a serial combat engine to a fully distributed one anytime soon(tm) as the overhead of doing that negates most of the benefits. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Ess Erbe Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:38:00 - [33] This was all about your computer and not with the server. In the 1000 man battle the other day I was flying around smoothly with constant 40 FPS, and my computer is three years old. We did have server lag though, but it was inconsistent, could be beaten and navigation etc was very responsive. Don't blame CCP because you're dumb and play with effects on.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Ess Erbe Don't blame CCP because you're dumb and play with effects on. Just out of interest the OP did say he was in the system next door on his own, which I assumed to mean there was no-one in system with him... so no mass of objects for his client to render... so was it really his computer, effects and overview settings?? ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:48:00 - [35] If his computer was stuttering then it was -not- server lag. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Kahega Amielden If his computer was stuttering then it was -not- server lag. <- fair enough... and... My god man! I didn't know I had a twin brother. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Potrero Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. SERVER LAG DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY _
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Pohbis on 28/11/2008 01:45:57 Originally by: Berious Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else. Yes yes... must be why my client lags in Jita when I'm docked and my machine has to process all those objects there. It couldn't be that an unresponsive node will 'cause the client to become unresponsive, no, too complicated. Must be my PC. And when the UI lags when I'm pulling up market orders, that's my machine as well of course. All those text strings demand their CPU cycles... Moar megahurtz plz!
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:45:00 - [39] No reply from the OP, lots of people replying with verbose responses defending CCP I'd say the troll scored 8/10 so far
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Faife single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. While not the single thing, it is a significant contribution to my continued presence as well. - DesuSigs
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:08:00 - [41] This is not a single server, it is a single-shard game. This means there is one persistent world universe. The game itself is run on many, many clustered servers. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group ACSG Open For Recruitment (AU/AsiaPac/Late Night PST) Originally by: Grarr Dexx YE
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. your stuff? Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Faife single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. While not the single thing, it is a significant contribution to my continued presence as well. I felt exactly the same way... until the week we crossed the '25,000+ players on a 24/7 basis' mark. Now I wouldn't mind so much if it would help the lag. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sharding simply isn't a make or break deal for me. shrug
Hixxy Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:13:00 - [44] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. your stuff?
fuer0n	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Kahega Amielden If his computer was stuttering then it was -not- server lag. <- fair enough... and... My god man! I didn't know I had a twin brother. he cloned you and you didnt know? ask jeramy kyle he can find out.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Lady Karma No reply from the OP, lots of people replying with verbose responses defending CCP I'd say the troll scored 8/10 so far It's Thanksgiving so I had to go talk to real human beings for a while. I've been playing this game for over two years. My main has over 30 million skillpoints. I know what lag looks like. But when I'm alone in a system (and by that I mean there's only me in local) and I'm so lagged out I can barely open a chat window when a single red actually does jump into system I've got to wonder. The original question was why should I be so lagged out in system A when the action is in system B. That's it. Maybe it's not an issue with shards. But it's reasonable to wonder if it will get better. Becuase what I was experiencing this afternoon wasn't worth the effort. Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information in this thread. I'll go check out the dev chat. As to those who want my stuff, you'll have to do better than just asking for it.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.28 03:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Potrero Originally by: Lady Karma No reply from the OP, lots of people replying with verbose responses defending CCP I'd say the troll scored 8/10 so far It's Thanksgiving so I had to go talk to real human beings for a while. I've been playing this game for over two years. My main has over 30 million skillpoints. I know what lag looks like. But when I'm alone in a system (and by that I mean there's only me in local) and I'm so lagged out I can barely open a chat window when a single red actually does jump into system I've got to wonder. The original question was why should I be so lagged out in system A when the action is in system B. That's it. Maybe it's not an issue with shards. But it's reasonable to wonder if it will get better. Becuase what I was experiencing this afternoon wasn't worth the effort. Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information in this thread. I'll go check out the dev chat. As to those who want my stuff, you'll have to do better than just asking for it. ok can i have you stuff please, if you dont karma will come and i promice you you wish you made the right choice and deposited it into my account
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 04:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Armoured C ok can i have you stuff please, if you dont karma will come and i promice you you wish you made the right choice and deposited it into my account Yes. For asking nicely I will deposit the total funds associated with this poor alt into your account next time I log in with this toon. Your welcome.
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.11.28 05:03:00 - [49] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate problems with screen refreshes and 'slideshowing' is a problem with your computer and video settings, not the one-server concept When your computer plays smoothly but you can't see a damn thing or activate your modules, then you can criticize First, DUDE, your face! As in you have one again. Second, what he's *****ing about is not client side at all. I've been in fights where I had gone and turned off everything I possibly could and still had a slideshow. Because that's as much as the node can handle at that time. The fact he was in the neighboring system just means they were both on the node (probably in the north, Tenal has the worst nodes in the game by far) and honestly I've been in fights where it turned entire constellations into slideshows, so stop with the immediately blaming the client side stuff. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
Riggleys Chews Zero Gravity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:11:00 - [50] Go back to WOW
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:27:00 - [51] Look, it's very simple: A single server means that we're all in the same server, even if we're on different servers per say, but in the same server system, in different places, but in the same place, with variation to source of server in which we reside at any given time, but with the similarity of the same system. Ok? The same system we're in is same server with different server of the system of servers we're all in individually with the same server system being the same system our server is. Hope it clear this. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Lauri Andromedae	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:47:00 - [52] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. You can't fight large fights with eye candy on.. You have to reduce graphics and sometimes even your resolution..
Psychotic Penguin Gallente The Professional's Club The Second Genesis	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Potrero Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Potrero Rant I'm going to assume this was in 0.0 so what happened is that both your system and the one the fight was in (plus many moar) are on one cpu. This is getting fixed as the new infiniband capable servers with win08 on them trickle in for the short therm and will be totaly zapped by the time its in full implimentation. Yes, this was in 0.0. And I'm sure there's some new technology on the horizon. My question is simply why they have to stick to the single-server concept at all? What's wrong with shards? Why should anything that I'm doing alone in system A be impacted by what's going on in system B? CCP markets the concept of a single server as a selling point. Why should I care? you want multiple servers WOW is that way ---> I hate multiple servers, if your in a time zone outside the majority it gets almost impossible to find 30 players with similar play style for a corp/clan. ____________________________________________________ Reality is for those who have no imagination.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:50:00 - [54] Solely so CCP can hold the world record for concurrent users on a single mmo server.... Originally by: Akita T Seriously ? ...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 08:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Psychotic Penguin you want multiple servers WOW is that way ---> Actually, I don't care about multiple servers. Or single servers for that matter. I just want the game to play as advertised. I just want it to work. As for your comment about WoW, you really should find a new one-liner. That one's sorely played out.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 08:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Ess Erbe Don't blame CCP because you're dumb and play with effects on. Just out of interest the OP did say he was in the system next door on his own, which I assumed to mean there was no-one in system with him... so no mass of objects for his client to render... so was it really his computer, effects and overview settings?? - In system alone - Nothing in overview - Classic Eve (I turned off the premium graphics before starting the op) - Effects and Turrets turned off Should work but didn't.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Berious Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else. this server side lag kills you in a way as in you'll have 60fps and nothing will happen. you won't b able to jump, aned everything will go crazy like you'll be in two places at once. but there won't be slow down.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Potrero The original question was why should I be so lagged out in system A when the action is in system B. That's it. Maybe it's not an issue with shards. But it's reasonable to wonder if it will get better. Becuase what I was experiencing this afternoon wasn't worth the effort. Sharding the universe wouldn't increase the amount of nodes available; in fact it would do exactly the opposite of what you want: there will be less nodes per universe, thus more solar systems per node, thus there's a higher chance of being in a system on a node which also is processing a fleet battle. So sharding wouldn't solve your problem, it would worsen it.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:22:00 - [59] If Eve had multiple servers your 100 v 100 fight would just be the same. I think your confused as to what the problem is. A single server has value in that it is a unique virtual universe like no other. Having many of them would dilute that. Paratwa Recruitment
Nimminnas Vibeke Minmatar Zarena Family Ethereal Spawn	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:22:00 - [60] To the OP: This is EVE uniquity. Adapt or ...your stuff

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