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What's so great about a single server anyway?

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Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.27 21:58:00 - [1] Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:01:00 - [2] Welcome to EVE
GateScout	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:08:00 - [3] Originally by: Potrero What's so great about this single server concept? ..and why do you think 100 (or any number) servers would make this any easier? While you can solve a few back-end issues, you are still stuck with the nondeterministic polynomial communication problem: you need to communicate ALL the data about all the ships to all the folks that need that information.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:12:00 - [4] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. I'm going to assume this was in 0.0 so what happened is that both your system and the one the fight was in (plus many moar) are on one cpu. This is getting fixed as the new infiniband capable servers with win08 on them trickle in for the short therm and will be totaly zapped by the time its in full implimentation. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:17:00 - [5] At least you had that many players on the server.
Berious Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:22:00 - [6] Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:23:00 - [7] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Potrero Rant I'm going to assume this was in 0.0 so what happened is that both your system and the one the fight was in (plus many moar) are on one cpu. This is getting fixed as the new infiniband capable servers with win08 on them trickle in for the short therm and will be totaly zapped by the time its in full implimentation. Yes, this was in 0.0. And I'm sure there's some new technology on the horizon. My question is simply why they have to stick to the single-server concept at all? What's wrong with shards? Why should anything that I'm doing alone in system A be impacted by what's going on in system B? CCP markets the concept of a single server as a selling point. Why should I care?
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:24:00 - [8] because with a single server anything you ever do in eve will effect everyone anything you kill any ship you make effect the entire world having multiple servers this effect is lost and so is the econical advantages of having it in a single world area. wouldnt it be heart braking to know that you beat a alliance on a single server for true purposes but then them start on a seperate server + all the powerblock in eve do actually have to fight it out instead of power blocking on seperate servers and becomming the master of this universe as there is only one universe excuse spelling
Lord Haur Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:36:00 - [9] Why have a single shard? Because we can have fleet battles of the same order of magnitude as the concurrent user counts of other MMO shards. --- Sig Starts Here --- Lord Haur - Imperial Academy Logistical Support
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:37:00 - [10] single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. -- i am a humble and inefficient ammo to dps converter
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Lord Haur Why have a single shard? Because we can have fleet battles of the same order of magnitude as the concurrent user counts of other MMO shards. and that those battles matter as you cant run off to another shard, your get what your givin which also drives me to fight for more in this game knowing that they got everything in this shard
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:47:00 - [12] Originally by: Faife single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. This. Knowing if a friend plays the game then you can play with your friend counts. Other games turned me off because I could never really play with folks that I knew. Also I remember some large fights in that other game. The server crashed repeatedly and the client lag was horrible. Maybe they fixed it, who cares. A single server or multiple servers can rarely handle massive fights. And if they can handle a large fights players will bring even more numbers. So why do I want to deal with multiple servers?
Flamewave Crimson Moon Society	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Potrero Why should anything that I'm doing alone in system A be impacted by what's going on in system B? Because they're on the same node. Read up on the dev blogs for why this happens and how the server cluster works, but to keep things short, the only way for what you really want (for a fleet battle in system A to not lag system B) would be to put each solar system on its own node. This can't be done because of the sheer cost of having so many servers seeing how many solar systems there are. __________
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:47:00 - [14] One community for the game instead of a community for each shard. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Rivur'Tam Fatality.	Posted - 2008.11.27 22:52:00 - [15] STFU NUB go play that fairy game wow, with all the other fairys. Nothing to do with servers, its your cheap ass fairy computer. AND NO FAIRY DOES NOT MEAN GAY ITS WHAT YOU SEE IN THE MIRROR JUST AFTER UR MOM IS DONE WIPING YOU BUM /emo rage rant over I hate it when fools like that try to ruin our game its awesome the way it is. .. I like teh secs and teh boobies ..how to win eve by buyiny this
Sophil	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Rivur'Tam Edited by: Rivur''Tam on 27/11/2008 22:57:48 STFU NUB go play that fairy game wow, with all the other fairys. Nothing to do with servers, its your cheap ass fairy computer. AND NO FAIRY DOES NOT MEAN GAY ITS WHAT YOU SEE IN THE MIRROR JUST AFTER UR MOM IS DONE WIPING YOU BUM /emo rage rant over I hate it when fools like that try to ruin our game its awesome the way it is. And b4 of of other losers attempt to flame me this is my view if you don't like it ignore it and so what if i can't spell i spent my school years chasing girls not sucking up my teachers ass and its not my fault your a ***** and have to flame me as for me flaming the op he had it coming mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It is people like you that makes the forums less fun that it should be. Everyone has a right to an opinion on something. It doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree with him/her, but calling everyone nuub or whiner when they try to discuss an opinion is very childish. So please just stop, ok? I for one think it's awsome that eve is on one large server, that everyone plays in the same galaxy. EVE would be quite empty if CCP diveded the game into 5 or 10 different servers. The 0.0 conflicts wouldn't have so much impact and so on. The reason I play this game is because of two reasons. 1. Spaceships!! 2. One Server.
Mistral Sud Minmatar Black Box Corp.	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Faife single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. Yup
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Potrero What's so great about a single server anyway? - Aside from wimply alt posters and people who never undock or leave an npc corp, noone is untounchable in or outside the game (whoever that leaves). - You're not segregated from your friends you invite. - Two groups of people living in identical universes breaks immersion, especially for ingame events and storyline.
Dimitrios Ypsilanti	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Rivur'Tam Malfunction. Seek therapy.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:37:00 - [20] If EVE was sharded as other MMOs are I doubt I'd continue to play this game either. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:39:00 - [21] problems with screen refreshes and 'slideshowing' is a problem with your computer and video settings, not the one-server concept When your computer plays smoothly but you can't see a damn thing or activate your modules, then you can criticize _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:41:00 - [22] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 27/11/2008 23:41:21 Originally by: Washell Olivaw One community for the game instead of a community for each shard. So when you eventually meet someone in RL who actually admits to playing EVE(I know I don't) , you can go do some anonomous griefing. - Infectious -
Little Matt Caldari New Fnord Industries Black Scope Project	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Rawr Cristina So when you eventually meet someone in RL who actually admits to playing EVE(I know I don't) , you can go do some anonomous griefing. You're ashamed of playing Eve? Why?
Kaar Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Potrero What's so great about this single server concept? Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships --- ---
fuer0n	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:55:00 - [25] nice to have people pushing the boundaries and push and push until it's normal to make something like an mmofps that you can jump into a spacecraft and fight above the planet as well as ctf/ deathmatch areas. call in a player run ship from orbit for a bombing run etc. taking 1 planet at a time :P that's why it's good that someone makes the effort and explores.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.11.27 23:55:00 - [26] Shards SUCK. It's a wide spready misconception that EVE is run on a single server. It works on a single cluster - but there are many servers (well - only 1 DB server AFAIK). The systems are spread over many servers and each blade manages a number of systems (less in empire, Jita has its own blade IIRC, more systems per blade in low pop 0.0). Lag can be server-side when the calculations for all those modules activating and ship movements tax the computing capacity of the server node - or it can be client-side when too many complex objects need to be rendered by your client. It can sometimes be network lag when your provider or local line have problems. Network and client lag would be the same in a sharded world. Server-lag - depends. Sure EVE has more potential for a lot of people being in 1 place (which is also a good thing) - but then what other MMO has the raw server power that CCP assembled for its cluster and keeps upgrading with the best market has to offer. What is great about a single world? Epic history. Reputation has value in EVE. You won't end up on a different shard than your friend and forced to create a new char to be in same world. Shards SUCK! --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:04:00 - [27] People whine about quitting if EVE were ever to be sharded, but to be honest, most of them would keep playing. Very few people actually ragequit EVE. Most fakequit and then you see them posting a month after they "left the game forever over the missile nerf". The game that the developers borrowed about 95% of the content from (Tradewars 20002), had hundreds and hundreds of shards. Not only that, but you played until one corporation controlled most of the universe and then the moderator would declare a winner and start the shard all over. Imagine how boring the game will become one day when a mega alliance finally takes over most of the universe. People will be crying for a shard by then.
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:11:00 - [28] Did you let CCP know that your group was thinking of doing a capital fleet battle with 300 players? If the answer is no then there is your problem.
Rivur'Tam Fatality.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Sophil Originally by: Rivur'Tam Edited by: Rivur''Tam on 27/11/2008 22:57:48 STFU NUB go play that fairy game wow, with all the other fairys. Nothing to do with servers, its your cheap ass fairy computer. AND NO FAIRY DOES NOT MEAN GAY ITS WHAT YOU SEE IN THE MIRROR JUST AFTER UR MOM IS DONE WIPING YOU BUM /emo rage rant over I hate it when fools like that try to ruin our game its awesome the way it is. And b4 of of other losers attempt to flame me this is my view if you don't like it ignore it and so what if i can't spell i spent my school years chasing girls not sucking up my teachers ass and its not my fault your a ***** and have to flame me as for me flaming the op he had it coming mwhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa It is people like you that makes the forums less fun that it should be. Everyone has a right to an opinion on something. It doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree with him/her, but calling everyone nuub or whiner when they try to discuss an opinion is very childish. So please just stop, ok? I for one think it's awsome that eve is on one large server, that everyone plays in the same galaxy. EVE would be quite empty if CCP diveded the game into 5 or 10 different servers. The 0.0 conflicts wouldn't have so much impact and so on. The reason I play this game is because of two reasons. 1. Spaceships!! 2. One Server. My troll failed .. I like teh secs and teh boobies ..how to win eve by buyiny this
Bloody Rabbit Jita Miners	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Imagine how boring the game will become one day when a mega alliance finally takes over most of the universe. People will be crying for a shard by then. Not going to happen, There is no way that you will get a group of people to agree on how to run 0.0 At best you could get a large block of agree but even then it will split apart from the inside so no you don't understand Eve nor 0.0
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:21:00 - [31] Quote: Yes, this was in 0.0. And I'm sure there's some new technology on the horizon. My question is simply why they have to stick to the single-server concept at all? What's wrong with shards? Why should anything that I'm doing alone in system A be impacted by what's going on in system B? It's your computer. Change your settings, configure your overview. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:23:00 - [32] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 28/11/2008 00:26:33 Originally by: Potrero I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? Read pretty much all of the infiniband thread (well prior to it turning into a C++ is better than Python my language is better than yours debate) and you will understand what's going on. You're not 'spread out' at all because I'm afraid a single CPU core was calculating the in-space simulation across multiple solar systems. So you, and the rest of the 300 ships, and anyone else, belt and gate rats and so on in a number of systems all shared the same CPU core. Some other services (chat, market etc.) were running on other cores. Effectively eve is divided up into multiple instances that can all synchronise with each other and share a single database. So we kinda already have a shared system but with data integrity between shards. The HPC/Infiniband roll-out plus on-going code refactoring should incrementally improve performance but until they can smoothly distribute the in-space simulation across multiple cores and eventually multiple hosts there will always be an upper limit to fleet PvP. What that limit is and how things will improve in 09... who knows. CCP have said however that they don't anticpate moving away from a serial combat engine to a fully distributed one anytime soon(tm) as the overhead of doing that negates most of the benefits. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Ess Erbe Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:38:00 - [33] This was all about your computer and not with the server. In the 1000 man battle the other day I was flying around smoothly with constant 40 FPS, and my computer is three years old. We did have server lag though, but it was inconsistent, could be beaten and navigation etc was very responsive. Don't blame CCP because you're dumb and play with effects on.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:45:00 - [34] Originally by: Ess Erbe Don't blame CCP because you're dumb and play with effects on. Just out of interest the OP did say he was in the system next door on his own, which I assumed to mean there was no-one in system with him... so no mass of objects for his client to render... so was it really his computer, effects and overview settings?? ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:48:00 - [35] If his computer was stuttering then it was -not- server lag. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 00:59:00 - [36] Originally by: Kahega Amielden If his computer was stuttering then it was -not- server lag. <- fair enough... and... My god man! I didn't know I had a twin brother. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Trathen Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Potrero Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. SERVER LAG DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY _
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:44:00 - [38] Edited by: Pohbis on 28/11/2008 01:45:57 Originally by: Berious Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else. Yes yes... must be why my client lags in Jita when I'm docked and my machine has to process all those objects there. It couldn't be that an unresponsive node will 'cause the client to become unresponsive, no, too complicated. Must be my PC. And when the UI lags when I'm pulling up market orders, that's my machine as well of course. All those text strings demand their CPU cycles... Moar megahurtz plz!
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:45:00 - [39] No reply from the OP, lots of people replying with verbose responses defending CCP I'd say the troll scored 8/10 so far
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.28 01:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Faife single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. While not the single thing, it is a significant contribution to my continued presence as well. - DesuSigs
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:08:00 - [41] This is not a single server, it is a single-shard game. This means there is one persistent world universe. The game itself is run on many, many clustered servers. ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group ACSG Open For Recruitment (AU/AsiaPac/Late Night PST) Originally by: Grarr Dexx YE
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:11:00 - [42] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. your stuff? Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Faife single shard is the single thing that keeps me in this game. While not the single thing, it is a significant contribution to my continued presence as well. I felt exactly the same way... until the week we crossed the '25,000+ players on a 24/7 basis' mark. Now I wouldn't mind so much if it would help the lag. I guess what I'm trying to say is that sharding simply isn't a make or break deal for me. shrug
Hixxy Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:13:00 - [44] Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. your stuff?
fuer0n	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Kahega Amielden If his computer was stuttering then it was -not- server lag. <- fair enough... and... My god man! I didn't know I had a twin brother. he cloned you and you didnt know? ask jeramy kyle he can find out.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 02:59:00 - [46] Originally by: Lady Karma No reply from the OP, lots of people replying with verbose responses defending CCP I'd say the troll scored 8/10 so far It's Thanksgiving so I had to go talk to real human beings for a while. I've been playing this game for over two years. My main has over 30 million skillpoints. I know what lag looks like. But when I'm alone in a system (and by that I mean there's only me in local) and I'm so lagged out I can barely open a chat window when a single red actually does jump into system I've got to wonder. The original question was why should I be so lagged out in system A when the action is in system B. That's it. Maybe it's not an issue with shards. But it's reasonable to wonder if it will get better. Becuase what I was experiencing this afternoon wasn't worth the effort. Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information in this thread. I'll go check out the dev chat. As to those who want my stuff, you'll have to do better than just asking for it.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.28 03:03:00 - [47] Originally by: Potrero Originally by: Lady Karma No reply from the OP, lots of people replying with verbose responses defending CCP I'd say the troll scored 8/10 so far It's Thanksgiving so I had to go talk to real human beings for a while. I've been playing this game for over two years. My main has over 30 million skillpoints. I know what lag looks like. But when I'm alone in a system (and by that I mean there's only me in local) and I'm so lagged out I can barely open a chat window when a single red actually does jump into system I've got to wonder. The original question was why should I be so lagged out in system A when the action is in system B. That's it. Maybe it's not an issue with shards. But it's reasonable to wonder if it will get better. Becuase what I was experiencing this afternoon wasn't worth the effort. Thanks to those who actually posted helpful information in this thread. I'll go check out the dev chat. As to those who want my stuff, you'll have to do better than just asking for it. ok can i have you stuff please, if you dont karma will come and i promice you you wish you made the right choice and deposited it into my account
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 04:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Armoured C ok can i have you stuff please, if you dont karma will come and i promice you you wish you made the right choice and deposited it into my account Yes. For asking nicely I will deposit the total funds associated with this poor alt into your account next time I log in with this toon. Your welcome.
SSgt Sniper Gallente MAIDS	Posted - 2008.11.28 05:03:00 - [49] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate problems with screen refreshes and 'slideshowing' is a problem with your computer and video settings, not the one-server concept When your computer plays smoothly but you can't see a damn thing or activate your modules, then you can criticize First, DUDE, your face! As in you have one again. Second, what he's *****ing about is not client side at all. I've been in fights where I had gone and turned off everything I possibly could and still had a slideshow. Because that's as much as the node can handle at that time. The fact he was in the neighboring system just means they were both on the node (probably in the north, Tenal has the worst nodes in the game by far) and honestly I've been in fights where it turned entire constellations into slideshows, so stop with the immediately blaming the client side stuff. ------- CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
Riggleys Chews Zero Gravity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:11:00 - [50] Go back to WOW
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:27:00 - [51] Look, it's very simple: A single server means that we're all in the same server, even if we're on different servers per say, but in the same server system, in different places, but in the same place, with variation to source of server in which we reside at any given time, but with the similarity of the same system. Ok? The same system we're in is same server with different server of the system of servers we're all in individually with the same server system being the same system our server is. Hope it clear this. My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Lauri Andromedae	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:47:00 - [52] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. You can't fight large fights with eye candy on.. You have to reduce graphics and sometimes even your resolution..
Psychotic Penguin Gallente The Professional's Club The Second Genesis	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:48:00 - [53] Originally by: Potrero Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Potrero Rant I'm going to assume this was in 0.0 so what happened is that both your system and the one the fight was in (plus many moar) are on one cpu. This is getting fixed as the new infiniband capable servers with win08 on them trickle in for the short therm and will be totaly zapped by the time its in full implimentation. Yes, this was in 0.0. And I'm sure there's some new technology on the horizon. My question is simply why they have to stick to the single-server concept at all? What's wrong with shards? Why should anything that I'm doing alone in system A be impacted by what's going on in system B? CCP markets the concept of a single server as a selling point. Why should I care? you want multiple servers WOW is that way ---> I hate multiple servers, if your in a time zone outside the majority it gets almost impossible to find 30 players with similar play style for a corp/clan. ____________________________________________________ Reality is for those who have no imagination.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.28 07:50:00 - [54] Solely so CCP can hold the world record for concurrent users on a single mmo server.... Originally by: Akita T Seriously ? ...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 08:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Psychotic Penguin you want multiple servers WOW is that way ---> Actually, I don't care about multiple servers. Or single servers for that matter. I just want the game to play as advertised. I just want it to work. As for your comment about WoW, you really should find a new one-liner. That one's sorely played out.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 08:47:00 - [56] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Originally by: Ess Erbe Don't blame CCP because you're dumb and play with effects on. Just out of interest the OP did say he was in the system next door on his own, which I assumed to mean there was no-one in system with him... so no mass of objects for his client to render... so was it really his computer, effects and overview settings?? - In system alone - Nothing in overview - Classic Eve (I turned off the premium graphics before starting the op) - Effects and Turrets turned off Should work but didn't.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Berious Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else. this server side lag kills you in a way as in you'll have 60fps and nothing will happen. you won't b able to jump, aned everything will go crazy like you'll be in two places at once. but there won't be slow down.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:20:00 - [58] Originally by: Potrero The original question was why should I be so lagged out in system A when the action is in system B. That's it. Maybe it's not an issue with shards. But it's reasonable to wonder if it will get better. Becuase what I was experiencing this afternoon wasn't worth the effort. Sharding the universe wouldn't increase the amount of nodes available; in fact it would do exactly the opposite of what you want: there will be less nodes per universe, thus more solar systems per node, thus there's a higher chance of being in a system on a node which also is processing a fleet battle. So sharding wouldn't solve your problem, it would worsen it.
Aodha Khan Minmatar The Paratwa	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:22:00 - [59] If Eve had multiple servers your 100 v 100 fight would just be the same. I think your confused as to what the problem is. A single server has value in that it is a unique virtual universe like no other. Having many of them would dilute that. Paratwa Recruitment
Nimminnas Vibeke Minmatar Zarena Family Ethereal Spawn	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:22:00 - [60] To the OP: This is EVE uniquity. Adapt or ...your stuff
Calvin Firenze Minmatar Malum Crusis IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.28 09:40:00 - [61] I'm a pirate + I don't care = you can shove the fleet battles right up your ass. Eve would be a lot more fun if more people would turn to piracy instead of fleetlagbattles. /drunk post /end troll
Joker47	Posted - 2008.11.28 10:01:00 - [62] Yeah let us drop the 1 server thing and make this into a 100000000 server crap thing like wow......yeah good idea......sign
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.28 10:04:00 - [63] Single server = nowhere to run. Anything I do affects you. Anything you do affects me (and you obviously need to be punished for it) No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Ryoji Tanakama Caldari Firestar Drive Yards	Posted - 2008.11.28 12:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. Server and internet lag does NOT affect your client's refresh rate. That would be something on your end.
Rachel Voegel	Posted - 2008.11.28 13:54:00 - [65] Originally by: Potrero As to those who want my stuff, you'll have to do better than just asking for it. Now, you see, THAT is why having a single shard is so great. ANYONE who plays EVE and wants your stuff can now come after you!
Atrossoe Gallente Lost Nomads	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:32:00 - [66] Edited by: Atrossoe on 28/11/2008 14:32:22 Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. Thats not the EVE servers dude, thats your computer's video card sucking. I've been in space with over 400 people near me in visual range and not a single bit laggy or choppy. The lag that you need to realize for the eve servers would be button response times, how long it takes for a module to activate and deactive, not the Frame rate of your current area. Atrossoe
Dmian Gallente Gallenterrorisme	Posted - 2008.11.28 14:37:00 - [67] Originally by: Potrero Actually, I don't care about multiple servers. Or single servers for that matter. I just want the game to play as advertised. I just want it to work. Most commercial MMORPGs are multi-server. It's one shard vs multiple shards, as stated by some people before. But, if you want your node (your lonely system + the battle system + other systems in the same node) not to have problems, you can send CCP a message telling them that there's a planned large fleet operation in system XXX on a particular day/time and they'll move the node to a new, faster 64bits one, so you can enjoy a lag-free battle. For more info, read the last paragraph of this Dev blog. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Cauldron Born	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:05:00 - [68] single server is the reason i started playing in EVE. in fact, as soon as i read about it, I left all other online games behind. ..except bushtarion lol
Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:09:00 - [69] Ugh. I will *NEVER* play a sharded game again. It's ridiculous that, for example, I know 20 friends who play WoW, but they're spread across six or seven different servers. Even if I were to get a WoW account, I could never play with all my friends without having to create six or seven characters and grind them all. No, EVE is MMO done right.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:11:00 - [70] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 28/11/2008 16:11:25 Originally by: Atrossoe Thats not the EVE servers dude, thats your computer's video card sucking. I've been in space with over 400 people near me in visual range and not a single bit laggy or choppy. The lag that you need to realize for the eve servers would be button response times, how long it takes for a module to activate and deactive, not the Frame rate of your current area. Atrossoe It really needs saying again. I had a lot less of an issue in our 1000+ fight in VNG. So lets think about that for a moment. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:11:00 - [71] More Servers - Less Performance - Less Players - Less Fleet Battles - Less Systems - Less Mineral Input - More isk inflation - Less piracy and who would play a multi-sharded game that requires years of IRL time to get funny? _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
ZinderX500 Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:17:00 - [72] Original Poster failed. Sorry . He fails to imagine how EVE would be without 1 shard. If he did and still believes it's better to have many shards then he fails at life.
Atomos Darksun Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:35:00 - [73] Originally by: ZinderX500 Original Poster failed. Sorry . He fails to imagine how EVE would be without 1 shard. If he did and still believes it's better to have many shards then he fails at life. He also fails at knowing the difference between server and client-side lag. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... CONVERT TO LINKIFICATION! http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameb
Aion Amarra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:36:00 - [74] Indeed. I never pretended to ragequit over a patch, but do away with the sharding and I will quit, instantly. That doesn't even have anything to do with 'ragequitting'. Ever tried playing FFXI with a friend? Starting at the same time, so he has no idea where to get one of those special invite codes from ingame? I was about to drive to SOE HQ just to start stabbing innocent receptionists with a fork. Also, the WoW one-liner wasn't all that wrong. Try playing WoW with their 200+ (I do not know the latest number) different shards and have fun. >.< Sharding is for singleplayer online games. >_< Anyway. 30 second and upwards screen refresh times are... not server lag. They are also not internet lag. (As has been repeated many many times above.) As for why it was lagging so immensely when you were alone in a system. You wouldn't happen to have a small amount of RAM (512-1024MB?) and have your cache size set to extreme? That sounds like a computer with a relatively slow HD (laptop?) has started to use the pagefile like a drunk monkey on speed. In that scenario, you'd first have seen one of the big fleets, then left the system, then STILL experienced the lag? (Alternatively, using Linux and forgot to compile DMA support into the kernel? :P (Yes, had that happen before.)) That's the first guess I'd have.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:46:00 - [75] Occasionally lag sucks and things don't work as they should. BIG DEAL. Would be exact same thing with mulitple shards. Occasionaly lag would suck and things don't work as they should. MMOGs are complicated beasts with a zillion things that can go wrong and some of the time they will. Look at other MMOGs forums - you'll find that they don't work 100% either. Get over it. Shards suck. And whenever CCP figures out a way to dynamically re-allocate nodes EVE will actually be better able to adapt to loads than sharded worlds. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
Atrossoe Gallente Lost Nomads	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:49:00 - [76] Edited by: Atrossoe on 28/11/2008 16:50:21 LOL so true so true. Anyway lets not get this topic into a flame war. The dude obviously doesn't have any real experience with other MMO's and doesn't have real experience in the PC hardware category, I just suggest Potrero to pick up some Maximum PC and PC gamer mags as well as CPU (computer power user) and other useful magazines and start reading. Here's the recommended specs to run this game I.M.O. Core 2 Duo or equivalent, at 1.8GHz with 4MB L2 cache, 2 Gigs of ram DDR2 PC6400 or higher, I recommend 4 gigs for all those other quirky apps. Geforce 7900GS or higher (radeon 4870 would be best), 200 GB 7200RPM hard drive SATA (recommend 2x 250GB 7200RPM hard drives striped). Soundblaster X-Fi soundcard for surround sound shooting (yay). And for the eye candy pleasure 2x 22 inch widescreen fast refresh rate LCD displays. My specs are: Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.4x2 Ghz 4MB L2), 4 GB DDR2 PC6400 RAM, 2x250GB Striped (read speeds 174MB/s write Speeds 137MB/s), Geforce 7900GS 256MB GDDR3. I have no problems running this game at the maximum settings with no FPS lag.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:50:00 - [77] Originally by: Aion Amarra As for why it was lagging so immensely when you were alone in a system. You wouldn't happen to have a small amount of RAM (512-1024MB?) and have your cache size set to extreme? That sounds like a computer with a relatively slow HD (laptop?) has started to use the pagefile like a drunk monkey on speed. In that scenario, you'd first have seen one of the big fleets, then left the system, then STILL experienced the lag? (Alternatively, using Linux and forgot to compile DMA support into the kernel? :P (Yes, had that happen before.)) That's the first guess I'd have. Your first guess gives him a lot more credit. I'm gonna guess all effects on any every single bracket. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:54:00 - [78] Originally by: Aion Amarra Ever tried playing FFXI with a friend? Starting at the same time, so he has no idea where to get one of those special invite codes from ingame? I was about to drive to SOE HQ just to start stabbing innocent receptionists with a fork. It's called a telephone. They probably were invented before your lifetime, although maybe I'm wrong. Originally by: Aion Amarra Also, the WoW one-liner wasn't all that wrong. Try playing WoW with their 200+ (I do not know the latest number) different shards and have fun. >.< Several million people say otherwise. People don't line up around the corner by the millions to spend their extra cash on stuff that isn't fun. So please, speak for yourself only when you start making claims about what's fun and what isn't. I'm currently having a lot of fun on two other sharded MMO's. I simply used my telephone to find out which server my friends were on and voila!, we're having a blast. Shard EVE? Fine with me, maybe it will split up the "old boys club" a bit and give newer players a chance at some of the resources in the game that have been hoarded by the "Day 1" crowd for years. Originally by: Aion Amarra Sharding is for singleplayer online games. >_< The last time I checked, no one has ever soloed Blackwing Lair, Molten Core, or the Tier 4 Keep Guardians in WAR, or the instances in Final Japanimation XXIIXXIII, or... maybe you get my point.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 16:57:00 - [79] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Several million people say otherwise. People don't line up around the corner by the millions to spend their extra cash on stuff that isn't fun. So, a lot of people like/do something, that makes it good and right? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:01:00 - [80] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne The last time I checked, no one has ever soloed Blackwing Lair, Molten Core, or the Tier 4 Keep Guardians in WAR, or the instances in Final Japanimation XXIIXXIII, or... maybe you get my point. Multiboxing, M is for Massively and Multiplayer _______________________________________________ 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:05:00 - [81] Actually OP someone did answer your question, way back on page one. I actually like forum memes and smackdowns etc, but when the people making them don't even understand the OPs question that he has stated multiple times, there's only one party left looking mentally defective, and it's not the OP. The reason you were lagged out in an empty system while a battle raged next door is because the servers host multiple systems each. There's obviously not 5000 servers in the cluster, so some of them are managing more than one system. If one of these systems suddenly has to manage a huge fleet fight, then all the other systems on that server will suffer even if they are empty. it's not unheard of for systems 5 or 10 jumps away from the battle to be lagged out when big fights are on - the scheme for deciding which bunch of systems are managed by a single server doesn't necessarily work by geographic proximity. Anyway, that's the reason. It happens all the time. And as another poster said earlier but probably got lost in all the failposts, if you know you are going to have a huge fleet fight you can petition CCP ahead of time and if they feel it's necessary they will dedicate a server to the system you will be fighting in, therefore preventing lag in that system and keeping all surrounding systems lag-free. It's got nothing to do with shards etc. Next time maybe title your post a bit more accurately and the turd-swarm won't descend on your thread.
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:42:00 - [82] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Several million people say otherwise. People don't line up around the corner by the millions to spend their extra cash on stuff that isn't fun. So, a lot of people like/do something, that makes it good and right? Discounting a method that works perfectly fine based off of personal bias is not logical. Obviously the sharding method works, and works extremely well. So saying that EVE will fall apart if, God forbid, it were to have more than one server is totally and completely absurd.
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:46:00 - [83] Originally by: Demitria Fernir Originally by: Neesa Corrinne The last time I checked, no one has ever soloed Blackwing Lair, Molten Core, or the Tier 4 Keep Guardians in WAR, or the instances in Final Japanimation XXIIXXIII, or... maybe you get my point. Multiboxing, M is for Massively and Multiplayer Multiboxing is more prevalent in EVE than any other MMO I've ever come across, and I've played damn near all of them for at least a short time. I have several friends that play eve on 4,5,6+ accounts simultaneously... so I fail to see how your post disproves my point.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:49:00 - [84] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Several million people say otherwise. People don't line up around the corner by the millions to spend their extra cash on stuff that isn't fun. So, a lot of people like/do something, that makes it good and right? Discounting a method that works perfectly fine based off of personal bias is not logical. Obviously the sharding method works, and works extremely well. So saying that EVE will fall apart if, God forbid, it were to have more than one server is totally and completely absurd. Except the main difference is those MMOs do not share the same things as Eve. For one, we can talk about the most immediate problem. The market. Wow's market is about as primitive as you can get. An Eve market with a cap of 5,000 players would make that entirely useless. You will get incredibly ridiculous prices, cartels, and after it gets established it will be even harder for people to start work in the market. In Eve, everything you do has an affect on the single world. In shards, you affect a handful of other players, and that's it. The shard system was started because it was the best thing they could do at the time. These days, most MMOs don't want to bother changing something that they figure has worked since t he dawn of the genre. However, in the 11 years since Ultima Online, you'd think there would be some technological advantages. Nobody goes to play WoW, because it is sharded, but people do come to Eve because it is not. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:51:00 - [85] Removing spaceships from EVE would remove most of the lag. And look; no-spaceships works just fine for WoW. - DesuSigs
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:57:00 - [86] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players That cannot be accounted as large any more. It is medium sized these days. Huge is 1000+, large is 500 Originally by: Potrero Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? As others pointed out, this is your computers fault not the servers fault. Have you applied the overview optimizations for fleet battles which CCP mentioned at the login-screen? On the other hand, if the system was empty, you shouldn't have problems with the overview anyway and everything should be fine ... except server lag. But server lag doesn't create slideshows, it causes unresponsive modules and such. Are you sure all this happened? Well, and to the single server approach. If you cannot understand it what a single server means for the universe, market and that everything is connected with everything else and that one single guy can change the course of the whole universe for everyone else then you need to think more about single server and sharded server concepts! The single universe is what makes Eve unique and strong. Look at other MMO's: who cares about what happens on other shards except the people playing there? On sharded servers you can never have a storyline being evolved by the players for all the players. Everyone is connected with everyone, everything matters.
small chimp	Posted - 2008.11.28 17:59:00 - [87] Why do people keep insisting that server lag cant cause fps lag?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:06:00 - [88] Originally by: small chimp Why do people keep insisting that server lag cant cause fps lag? Because for a long time now I have been able to eliminate almost completely my graphical lag. And that has no bearing on how fast or slow my modules activate. The server has nothing to do with how fast or slow the client renders space. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:18:00 - [89] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Nobody goes to play WoW, because it is sharded, but people do come to Eve because it is not. This. To the OP. I have the same problems as you do. All my settings are set to minimize lag. The only thing I do that does not help my computers performance is that I use windowed mode. I like to see who is giving orders on TS/Vent. Once I get the voices down I will go back to full screen. I blame all my lack of performance on my computer. When I have task manager open and playing EVE the CPU usage is maxed out. I am not sure why, it did not do this before, but I sure as heck am not going to complain that it is due to CCP and then ask for seperate Universe's just so I can play with less "lag". I like the Universe how it is and I doubt I would stay for very long if it split. Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. ≡v≡
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:22:00 - [90] I think breaking the world into two hemispheres wouldn't be bad. just cut the north American connections right down the middle, and give the east coast to the euro-server, and the west coast to asia and the pacific. Before you flame me, stop and think about how **ing crowded it is in space. I mean 'crowded' and 'space' shouldn't even be in the same sentence without a giant irony incarnate hitting the said person in the face with the epic hammer of irony. Space should be spacious. 'nuff said. ________________________________ Originally by:** Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
Neesa Corrinne Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:26:00 - [91] I'm not promoting any sharding. Personally I'm fine with one, but I also think that the wailing and gnashing of teeth over maybe a second or third instance of the game world is totally uncalled for. The market worked just fine with only 15,000 players at one point in EVE's history. I remember it well, cause I started the game when the average concurrent users during prime time was just around 15,000. So let me make it clear, I'm not advocating sharding, but if CCP ever made a second or third instance of the game world, it would hardly destroy the game. The most probable outcome is that people would play on all three servers.
Karille Gallente Lordless	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:27:00 - [92] Originally by: Terra Mikael I think breaking the world into two hemispheres wouldn't be bad. just cut the north American connections right down the middle, and give the east coast to the euro-server, and the west coast to asia and the pacific. Before you flame me, stop and think about how ****ing crowded it is in space. I mean 'crowded' and 'space' shouldn't even be in the same sentence without a giant irony incarnate hitting the said person in the face with the epic hammer of irony. Space should be spacious. 'nuff said. I thought about it and you're dumb.
Roxanna Kell R0XYRACHO	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:27:00 - [93] Getting a new server means the new players are mostly going to go to it to try and start something, same goes to the many many failed corps and alliances, Also its very possible that many people are just going to play on both of them. I my self will probably sell this char on this server get it in gtc and use it for the next one, simply cause i feel like starting from scratch will make the game more fun, than having it all. Quote: Knowledge is having a forward scout in a roaming op, wisdom is to scout the rear as well.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:28:00 - [94] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne The market worked just fine with only 15,000 players at one point in EVE's history. I remember it well, cause I started the game when the average concurrent users during prime time was just around 15,000. It worked, but there was much more price fixing, and a lot less competition, so you could charge a 500% markup. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 18:31:00 - [95] Originally by: Terra Mikael Before you flame me, stop and think about how **ing crowded it is in space. I mean 'crowded' and 'space' shouldn't even be in the same sentence without a giant irony incarnate hitting the said person in the face with the epic hammer of irony. If you're comparing it to present day, sure. But, the same crowding will just happen on other servers. It is not that every single system is jam packed with space traffic. It is that people tend to gravitate to certain areas, which will still happen. So, sharding will not stop that problem, but it will destroy what is unique about Eve. Originally by:** CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.28 21:05:00 - [96] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Several million people say otherwise. People don't line up around the corner by the millions to spend their extra cash on stuff that isn't fun. So, a lot of people like/do something, that makes it good and right? Discounting a method that works perfectly fine based off of personal bias is not logical. Obviously the sharding method works, and works extremely well. So saying that EVE will fall apart if, God forbid, it were to have more than one server is totally and completely absurd. Sharding works for those games. Look around, most here don't want sharding, and many play this game to get away from it as it's so prevalent in other games. Obviously there is no one best choice as it's all subjective to each person playing the game. I'd like to think that most would agree that having both options within the MMO realm is a good thing rather trying to make all work the same. Maybe EVE wouldn't "fall apart" but the player base that then would enjoy EVE would be a different set of people than those that currently do. The fact that tons of people like one method doesn't dictate how every game SHOULD be made. Obviously MMOs with a fantasy setting works "extremely well" but it's not really a good argument to turn EVE that direction, even if EVE wouldn't necessarily "die" if they did. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
The Medusa GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 21:44:00 - [97] Originally by: Potrero Was just part of a large scale fleet op of about 300 ships. - 2 support fleets: 100 players each - 1 cap fleet of 100 players I took a scout position in a system adjacent to the main action. I was in the system alone. Lag was still so bad that my client looked like a slide show. A full 30 seconds between screen refreshes. What's so great about this single server concept? I can understand lag conditions when we're all operating in a single system, but when we're spread out? The game was unplayable. I ran out of time so I couldn't extract myself. Next time I log in I'll be behind enemy lines solo. Unplayable. Why don't you CTRL+Q and help the lag next time? I got a new computer for AOC. I was running 2 alts on it in the last battles over in VNG with 700+ in local. I was able to warp around ok, target and shoot after each warpin. If you have issues, you have a slow computer. Last time I had sound on my EVE was 2005 I believe. I have turned off all details and the game is working quite nice. In the battles we had with about 200-300 people on grid (friendlies) killing towers and BOB pets, I had no problem running 2 BS and a carrier, with no lag. (that is tripple boxing with 600+ in local) so Potrero, you are a failure at eve. ----------------sig space for rent -------- EvE Online are a game. EvE Online are a game. EvE Online are a game. EvE Online are a game. EvE Online are a game. EvE Online are a game. EvE Online ar
Blastil	Posted - 2008.11.28 22:59:00 - [98] because when a titan goes down, there isn't a question of 'damn, I should be on XYZ server because BoB and goon fight there' it becomes one of "Damn, I should have logged on today" Also, with an economy as complex as EVE's if you had shards, then you'd be always having the problem that no one on server XYZ makes Blasters, because they're all caldari there.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 23:02:00 - [99] Originally by: Tiirae Actually OP someone did answer your question, way back on page one. I actually like forum memes and smackdowns etc, but when the people making them don't even understand the OPs question that he has stated multiple times, there's only one party left looking mentally defective, and it's not the OP. The reason you were lagged out in an empty system while a battle raged next door is because the servers host multiple systems each. There's obviously not 5000 servers in the cluster, so some of them are managing more than one system. If one of these systems suddenly has to manage a huge fleet fight, then all the other systems on that server will suffer even if they are empty. it's not unheard of for systems 5 or 10 jumps away from the battle to be lagged out when big fights are on - the scheme for deciding which bunch of systems are managed by a single server doesn't necessarily work by geographic proximity. Anyway, that's the reason. It happens all the time. And as another poster said earlier but probably got lost in all the failposts, if you know you are going to have a huge fleet fight you can petition CCP ahead of time and if they feel it's necessary they will dedicate a server to the system you will be fighting in, therefore preventing lag in that system and keeping all surrounding systems lag-free. It's got nothing to do with shards etc. Next time maybe title your post a bit more accurately and the turd-swarm won't descend on your thread. Hi everyone. This is what an intelligent response looks like. In case you were wondering. Thx
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 23:04:00 - [100] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 28/11/2008 23:06:19 Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 28/11/2008 23:04:53 Originally by: Potrero Originally by: Tiirae Actually OP someone did answer your question, way back on page one. I actually like forum memes and smackdowns etc, but when the people making them don't even understand the OPs question that he has stated multiple times, there's only one party left looking mentally defective, and it's not the OP. The reason you were lagged out in an empty system while a battle raged next door is because the servers host multiple systems each. There's obviously not 5000 servers in the cluster, so some of them are managing more than one system. If one of these systems suddenly has to manage a huge fleet fight, then all the other systems on that server will suffer even if they are empty. it's not unheard of for systems 5 or 10 jumps away from the battle to be lagged out when big fights are on - the scheme for deciding which bunch of systems are managed by a single server doesn't necessarily work by geographic proximity. Anyway, that's the reason. It happens all the time. And as another poster said earlier but probably got lost in all the failposts, if you know you are going to have a huge fleet fight you can petition CCP ahead of time and if they feel it's necessary they will dedicate a server to the system you will be fighting in, therefore preventing lag in that system and keeping all surrounding systems lag-free. It's got nothing to do with shards etc. Next time maybe title your post a bit more accurately and the turd-swarm won't descend on your thread. Hi everyone. This is what an intelligent response looks like. In case you were wondering. Thx Except everything you explained makes it sound much more like it was entirely graphical lag. So, this answer is entirely missing the point. Of course, it doesn't even mention that you don't actually have any way of knowing if you were in fact in the same node as the next system over. But, you just want an answer that confirms what you said, not the correct answer, rather than having to admit that the problem might be on your end. So, you've got it. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.28 23:15:00 - [101] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Except everything you explained makes it sound much more like it was entirely graphical lag. So, this answer is entirely missing the point. Bull**. I was one of the posters who pointed out that it was the server node lagging exactly because he said that he was: In system ALONE** and next door a large fleet battle was going on. I gave up earlier because I can't be arsed correcting a bunch of failboat tards who fail to understand clear english in the OPs first post. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Potrero	Posted - 2008.11.28 23:16:00 - [102] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Except everything you explained makes it sound much more like it was entirely graphical lag. So, this answer is entirely missing the point. Of course, it doesn't even mention that you don't actually have any way of knowing if you were in fact in the same node as the next system over. But, you just want an answer that confirms what you said, not the correct answer. So, you've got it. This is a fair point. I probably didn't describe the effects as accurately as I should have. I was largely frozen out of the client. The screen would freeze for seconds at a time (10 - 30). When I did get to move I experienced serious de-sync issues. The modules and chat boxes were unresponsive. The reason I keep rejecting the argument that it's my lame computer is because I've had two years in Eve on this box. Experiencing this level of lag in an empty system cannot be completely explained by a sucky CPU.
Luke Lor'aul Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.28 23:18:00 - [103] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Originally by: Potrero What's so great about a single server anyway? - Aside from wimply alt posters and people who never undock or leave an npc corp, noone is untounchable in or outside the game (whoever that leaves). Yeah, if you **** me off, I pod you irl
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.28 23:24:00 - [104] Originally by: Potrero Originally by: An Anarchyyt Except everything you explained makes it sound much more like it was entirely graphical lag. So, this answer is entirely missing the point. Of course, it doesn't even mention that you don't actually have any way of knowing if you were in fact in the same node as the next system over. But, you just want an answer that confirms what you said, not the correct answer. So, you've got it. This is a fair point. I probably didn't describe the effects as accurately as I should have. I was largely frozen out of the client. The screen would freeze for seconds at a time (10 - 30). When I did get to move I experienced serious de-sync issues. The modules and chat boxes were unresponsive. The reason I keep rejecting the argument that it's my lame computer is because I've had two years in Eve on this box. Experiencing this level of lag in an empty system cannot be completely explained by a sucky CPU. Except all of this continually points to your system. Maybe something happend to it, I don't know. But this is all client lag. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.29 00:05:00 - [105] No worries. An excuse will be made and the cheerleaders will spam insults and flames to support it.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.29 00:12:00 - [106] Originally by: Ocih No worries. An excuse will be made and the cheerleaders will spam insults and flames to support it. What an intelligent and thoughtful post, full of great points. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.29 00:19:00 - [107] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Ocih No worries. An excuse will be made and the cheerleaders will spam insults and flames to support it. What an intelligent and thoughtful post, full of great points. I have learned not to put too much thought in to posts in General. They will only get quoted and answered with noob or can I has your stuffs or some other mindless macro spam. Setting up his overview shouldn't make a difference if he is in a system alone. The lag is coming through fleet. Alternatives?
ZinderX500 Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.29 00:24:00 - [108] Originally by: Potrero This is what an intelligent response looks like. In case you were wondering. Sorry but we were wondering NOT. kkthxbai
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.29 00:51:00 - [109] Originally by: Ocih Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Ocih No worries. An excuse will be made and the cheerleaders will spam insults and flames to support it. What an intelligent and thoughtful post, full of great points. I have learned not to put too much thought in to posts in General. They will only get quoted and answered with noob or can I has your stuffs or some other mindless macro spam. Setting up his overview shouldn't make a difference if he is in a system alone. The lag is coming through fleet. Alternatives? While I can't diagnose exactly what it is that caused it, I can say one thing for certain. When your framerate is stuttering, and your clicks are unresponsive, that is on the client side. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.11.29 01:50:00 - [110] Originally by: An Anarchyyt While I can't diagnose exactly what it is that caused it, I can say one thing for certain. When your framerate is stuttering, and your clicks are unresponsive, that is on the client side. True, the symptons are client side but the cause can be server lag. Say when you're browsing the market on a busy node and your UI becomes laggy and unresponsive. That's not the mighty CPU cycle eating and bandwidth hungry Market-UI bogging your system down. It's the client becoming unresponsive because the node is lagging.
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2008.12.02 11:33:00 - [111] Originally by: Karille I thought about it and you're dumb. Sweet irony strikes again. Would you like a cookie, sir, and perhaps some warm milk? It would loosen you up a bit so you could go somewhere and give yourself a good...copulating. ________________________________ Originally by: Korovyov You WIN! And by win, I mean suck horse manure.
Karille Gallente Cold Templars Templar Initiative	Posted - 2008.12.02 12:01:00 - [112] Like a black fly in your chardonnay?
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.12.02 12:46:00 - [113] Originally by: Berious Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else. Ignore this guy,he doesn't know what he's talking about. I've had correct overview setup and zoomed out(and IN) and nothing running in background,on my epeen uber PC and still have had slide shows on many occasions ====================
ZinderX500 Caldari Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.02 12:55:00 - [114] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Berious Server lag doesn't make your screen jerky and unresponsive. That's a problem with your computer. Either your overview isn't setup to handle many objects on screen well, or your PC was doing something in the background while you played, or something else. Ignore this guy,he doesn't know what he's talking about. I've had correct overview setup and zoomed out(and IN) and nothing running in background,on my epeen uber PC and still have had slide shows on many occasions I say we better ignore you.
Mikalya Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:11:00 - [115] Originally by: Crumplecorn Removing spaceships from EVE would remove most of the lag. And look; no-spaceships works just fine for WoW. New Sig?
Aion Amarra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.02 13:57:00 - [116] Edited by: Aion Amarra on 02/12/2008 13:57:40 Edited by: Aion Amarra on 02/12/2008 13:57:08 Originally by: Neesa Corrinne It's called a telephone. They probably were invented before your lifetime, although maybe I'm wrong. Grats on missing the point. FFXI assigns a newly created character to a random shard, probably to the ones with the lowest population. I tried deleting and recreating characters for three hours and I did not get onto the server I wanted to be on. Note that this was mostly due to my friend who was playing on the server (Ifrit, for the curious ones.) being too dense to figure out where to get a buddy invite code from. The system is still bogus, however. And 'calling' SOE customer support per phone does nothing, obiously. It's an intended game mechanic. Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Several million people say otherwise. People don't line up around the corner by the millions to spend their extra cash on stuff that isn't fun. I see that happening very regularly whenever someone buys hardware at an IT store. Chances are that in nine of ten cases you can order the same stuff online for (in some cases) a third of the price. Why do they do this? 1. They do not know better. (Large retailer chains are obviously better known, have TV advertising regularily, etc. Small online stores do not.) 2. They want a store guy to help them in the selection of the hardware. (Relates to 1., though, given that in most cases the average store worker knows as much as the average customer.) In this case, Blizzard is the large retailer chain and CCP is the small online store, given that most advertising for Eve (with some exceptions) still happens on webpages whose average visitor is already a MMO gamer. Blizzard has Mr. T advertising Night Elf Mohawks all across half the **ing planet. Note that this is likely subject to change relatively soon when Atari starts to sell Eve boxed. Originally by:** Neesa Corrinne So please, speak for yourself only when you start making claims about what's fun and what isn't. I'm currently having a lot of fun on two other sharded MMO's. I simply used my telephone to find out which server my friends were on and voila!, we're having a blast. I agree that fun is very subjective. If that wasn't clear in my wording, sorry. Let me word it differently. Even to me, sharded games can be fun. However, all of them lack a certain something that Eve has and that I sorely miss when playing other games, which has so far always caused me to rubberband back to Eve a few months after I quit. And I do use phones regularily. When talking with people about work, family related matters, and anything else that happens in an offline context. The only friends I talk to on the phone about -gaming- specifically are the ones that do not have internet. I figure you'll see that this is hardly related to MMO's. You almost sound like you never use the internet for communication outside of games. Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Originally by: Aion Amarra Sharding is for singleplayer online games. >_< The last time I checked, no one has ever soloed Blackwing Lair, Molten Core, or the Tier 4 Keep Guardians in WAR, or the instances in Final Japanimation XXIIXXIII, or... maybe you get my point. I was trying to act semi-exaggeratedly/funny/whatever you want to call it. What I mean is that sharded games, to me, feel like 'normal' multiplayer games. Do your 48 man raid in WoW. Made it? Good for you! Result: No effect on the other players whatsoever. Not via money injected into the global economy. Not via stuff lost due to being killed. No nothing. I can have that by playing on a random Freelancer server. And there it won't even cost monthly money. EDIT: Fixed quote tags, gah.
baltec1 R.U.S.T. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.02 14:01:00 - [117] The great thing about a single server is that I can meet every single person who has posted in this topic and get to shoot at them.
Aion Amarra Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.12.02 14:03:00 - [118] Originally by: baltec1 The great thing about a single server is that I can meet every single person who has posted in this topic and get to shoot at them. This is another awesome argument for the unsharded nature of Eve. Also mind that I shall shut up now.

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