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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Kwint Sommer
Caldari
XERCORE
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Posted - 2008.12.02 01:00:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
It isn't a bad idea. We will likely have a lot of IPO related discussion on our forums anyway when the stock exchange goes live and would be nice to have one specific location to go to for all the data.
If people want this we can easily organise a sub forum but the API check thing may be difficult (easy to manually do, not so much automatically)
Horizontal (our head coder) is reading this thread so I am sure he will have something to say from a developmental leveal
A rule against alts would be nice but there should be discretion as to how it's applied. Personally I think SHC handles the whole no-alt thing pretty well. There shouldn't be a need for API checks and all that crap.
Basically anyone should be allowed to sign up and post. If they're causing trouble and a moderator thinks there an alt then you invoke the rule, otherwise don't worry about. A quality poster is a quality poster even if they're an alt.
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Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
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Posted - 2008.12.02 01:06:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cheopis
I'm sorry, but all arguments that do not point directly towards a new forum for market transactions are fail.
I encourage you and your like-minded colleagues to start that forum immediately. It will be good to get such patronising intolerance and elitism out of Market Discussions.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.12.02 01:16:00 -
[93]
Personally I think it's more that we normally use this forum for actual discussion on various market related topics (hence subject name Market Discussions). It's not a help forum. That seems to be the main thing annoying people.
Look at someone like Lexander. He came in MD at about 1 month of age and wasn't told off or anything of the sort. He had done some research into how things worked and he wasn't just asking random questions but moreso he gathered data and had the parts he wasn't sure of filled in.
If we started the forum it would be have a few subsections to clearly categorise these differences. Market Discussion, Bond/IPO Releases, Bond/IPO discussion, Bond/IPO Help, Market Help.
Something like that I think would make most of the people here happy. It's not separating the noobs from the established players at all, it's simply putting topics in their right category to avoid dilution.
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.12.02 02:39:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 02/12/2008 02:39:42
You know I think this discussion is funny since I think the MD community is capable of handling the "lesser" threads that get published. I also think that it is ridiculous that the EVE New Citizens sub forum is the 10th sub forum on the main page and that the search function is all but worthless.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
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Jamis Bakar
Shade Holding Corp
Shade Underworld
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Posted - 2008.12.02 04:31:00 -
[95]
Elitism, as demonstrated by some here, is horrible. This obnoxious "we have no time for the kiddies who ask the questions /we/ know the answers to". Bleh.
People whine that Science & Industry is an example of what happens when the "rabble" are allowed to post. I'm amazed that someone actually posted with a straight face that MD should be subject to "char age restrictions".
Want to see what an elitist forum is? You'd probably never imagine, but CAOD. Supposedly for anyone to discuss goings on in space, but I dare you, post about a fight you were involved in that had none of the following elements:
1. The destruction of less than 100 cap ships.
2. Involvement of no motherships (or more commonly, no Titans)
3. The involvement of none of the Top Ten Alliances.
You'll be flamed into oblivion. "No-one cares". Mocked openly for discussing things that are important to you and perhaps to many people, but not to people who lose a mom a week.
Not what I want to see of any forum here.
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Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
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Posted - 2008.12.02 05:05:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jamis Bakar
Elitism, as demonstrated by some here, is horrible. This obnoxious "we have no time for the kiddies who ask the questions /we/ know the answers to". Bleh.
People whine that Science & Industry is an example of what happens when the "rabble" are allowed to post. I'm amazed that someone actually posted with a straight face that MD should be subject to "char age restrictions".
As in RL, I have no time for those that can't read before hand and do a little searching.
What is so hard about "hey I tryed using that search bar at the top of the page and I checked the last 5 pages but I couldn't find ......."
If I saw that I would be more than happy to help so long as it didn't cut into my business, or at least point them in the right direction. But no, we get the same questions over and over with the OP not bothering to check. This is starting to turn into the S&I forum which I'm slower stop reading because 1 in every 10 thread asks what does it take to anchor a POS in high sec.
Please for once address this, how is it Elitism to ask the creators of new threads to check to see if their topic has been covered before in the last week or so?
Give me reasonable an answer to this and I will back down.
Signed,
Alt poster, minor capital parts and ship builder and CEO of small corp and in the future IPO launch
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Badada
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Posted - 2008.12.02 07:55:00 -
[97]
What about just moving the sales of bond/ipo/shares to the buy/sell/auction forums? Isn't that where belong anyways?
All the discussions about the markets, how the market works, and tips could be done here. It would clear up space for people to ask more questions and learn more about how markets work much the same way S&I works.
The newer folks could ask basic how/what/why questions and the older more experienced players could still have in depth debates about big isk deals without all the buy/sell/trade clutter.
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Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.12.02 08:05:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Jamis Bakar
Elitism, as demonstrated by some here, is horrible. This obnoxious "we have no time for the kiddies who ask the questions /we/ know the answers to". Bleh.
People whine that Science & Industry is an example of what happens when the "rabble" are allowed to post. I'm amazed that someone actually posted with a straight face that MD should be subject to "char age restrictions".
Want to see what an elitist forum is? You'd probably never imagine, but CAOD. Supposedly for anyone to discuss goings on in space, but I dare you, post about a fight you were involved in that had none of the following elements:
1. The destruction of less than 100 cap ships.
2. Involvement of no motherships (or more commonly, no Titans)
3. The involvement of none of the Top Ten Alliances.
You'll be flamed into oblivion. "No-one cares". Mocked openly for discussing things that are important to you and perhaps to many people, but not to people who lose a mom a week.
Not what I want to see of any forum here.
If this forum becomes anything close to CAOD it is dead.
You are wrong about CAOD though. It is not a place for the strong or for major events, it is a place dominated by mental midgets, with one post in twenty being informational. Go back and read the posts from a year ago and 3 years ago and you can see the descent. The interesting thing about CAOD was that it started basically as a recruitment channel and evolved over time into the place for news and discussion on major political events in EvE. Now it has become entirely about 0.0 pvp and fleet battle reports. What most people now fail to grasp, is that CAOD used to have a player driven narrative arc, with power blocks and alliances making themselves part of the story. The problem with the CAOD of today is that it is graffiti, not forum posting. People drop in and make their worthless post and then abandon the thread. If you go on SHC, there are actually threads that ppl write about threads on CAOD about how they are going to write trash there, and they laugh amongst themselves about the terrible things they said. CAOD is metagaming at its worst at this point. It is finally in its final stages of decline. Posting has dropped off, and people are stopping even the metagaming there as almost all discussion has moved out of the EvE online arena into SHC and other places.
The CAODization of this forum must not happen. But I think CAOD also shows what unintended consequences and a lack of planning can do to a forum and the community. CCP failed to grasp how to harness the community of that forum. It used to be a worthy forum, but it wasn't well managed and that energy has moved outside of CCP control, which in the long run is not a good sign for EvE. I think it offers a lesson for where this forum may end up going. This community is not portable or fungible, and the unintended consequences of what CCP is doing may be harmful to industry. So a bit of history is important here.
I also think CCP fails to grasp that this forum is a part of the game. It helps to create an immersive environment where people can believe they are industrialists in an internet spaceship game. The difference between industrialists and traders is that their game is in their imagination, as much as pvpers live in a world of pixels. It is very jarring to game play to have people jump in with noobness. It tears away at the fabric of the game in an intangible way. I think CCP needs to understand that. Tools like this forum are not necessarily a supplement to the game. For many people, these tools ARE the game. Serious industrialists, live in a world of spread sheets and code and probably play more outside of the EvE client than in it. This is true sandbox stuff at stake here.
I think one imaginative solution would be to bring this forum into the game, and allow the IGB to act as more of a conduit to everyone's spread sheets, interfacing "in game" and "out of game" resource.
Back on Retainer. I am cheap but not easy. |
YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.12.02 08:34:00 -
[99]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/12/2008 08:35:43
Ah, it would seem like the segregation committee has finally pushed the dramatization to a climax.
Too bad that in one week from now no one will remember anything.
I have to agree with you though, it is such a wonderful way to waste your time.
Black Sun Empire |
Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
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Posted - 2008.12.02 08:44:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Badada
What about just moving the sales of bond/ipo/shares to the buy/sell/auction forums? Isn't that where belong anyways?
All the discussions about the markets, how the market works, and tips could be done here. It would clear up space for people to ask more questions and learn more about how markets work much the same way S&I works.
The newer folks could ask basic how/what/why questions and the older more experienced players could still have in depth debates about big isk deals without all the buy/sell/trade clutter.
Thats not how forums work. The value of a forum is in its history and the community that gathers around it. In this kind of forum, people have gotten to know each other over time. It is an organic, player driven creation. It cannot be "moved", in the way you are describing without taking some big risks that the entire construct falls apart. The pixels may belong to CCP, but everything of value in a forum is in the community around it. Splitting it into pieces may sound easy to you, but in practice, that is how you wreck things in ways that cannot be repaired or rebuilt.
If this was just about moving bits of code, I don't think people would be this upset. Thats why I don't think that is the root of the problem. What this is, is uprooting the home of many of EvE's premier industrialists.
Back on Retainer. I am cheap but not easy. |
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.12.02 09:15:00 -
[101]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/12/2008 09:25:54
Originally by: Re Mi
Thats not how forums work. The value of a forum is in its history and the community that gathers around it. In this kind of forum, people have gotten to know each other over time. It is an organic, player driven creation. It cannot be "moved", in the way you are describing without taking some big risks that the entire construct falls apart. The pixels may belong to CCP, but everything of value in a forum is in the community around it. Splitting it into pieces may sound easy to you, but in practice, that is how you wreck things in ways that cannot be repaired or rebuilt.
If this was just about moving bits of code, I don't think people would be this upset. Thats why I don't think that is the root of the problem. What this is, is uprooting the home of many of EvE's premier industrialists.
I agree with Re Mi, we should change the rules and turn the public forum that is MD into a social club.
Originally by: SJ Astralana
wts passes to the kewl kids klub, lawl fail***gots.
Oh, and Re Mi, posting here is a privilege that can be revoked at any time. You might want to get off the CCP merry train.
Black Sun Empire |
Badada
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Posted - 2008.12.02 10:07:00 -
[102]
I don't want to see anyone to leave the new improved MD forum. It has a bit more to go before its open to the masses for basic discussion and tips on how the markets works but its getting better. I was just thinking that if CCP enforced their rule of no buy/sell/trades in this forum and moved them all to the proper place, the new improved MD forum would see much more traffic and that's a win/win for everyone.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.12.02 10:11:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Badada
that's a win/win for everyone.
I guess I must not be "everyone", strange to hear that coming from a no one.
--
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Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2008.12.02 10:43:00 -
[104]
Players with QUESTIONS! in OUR M&D? Disgusting.
get over yourselves.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:11:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Rellik B00n
Players with QUESTIONS! in OUR M&D? Disgusting.
get over yourselves.
Its not that difficult really, all we ask is you utilize the sticky at the top and eve-search for any related questions.
For instance, anything regarding ORE, or Mineral, or Moon Mins, would bring up at least half a dozen threads with myself, Akita, Ricdic, Mr H, Lex, Cosmo, etc.. (the list is lengthy and long) spanning the course of the last 2 years going into detail the force behind price fluctuations in these items.
So when someone comes in here and asks "Whats up with x" you can sorta understand why we let our nerdrage get to us. |
Cheopis
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:36:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Badada
What about just moving the sales of bond/ipo/shares to the buy/sell/auction forums? Isn't that where belong anyways?
All the discussions about the markets, how the market works, and tips could be done here. It would clear up space for people to ask more questions and learn more about how markets work much the same way S&I works.
The newer folks could ask basic how/what/why questions and the older more experienced players could still have in depth debates about big isk deals without all the buy/sell/trade clutter.
The sales of bonds and stocks require extensive "face time" where people can actually see them. It's not just one buyer, sometimes there are dozens of buyers. The bonafides of the offer must be discussed, and there needs to be whistleblower time, which is best created by having a slow forum. Putting an IPO post in the existing sales forum would be a meaningless venture since it would stay in the top page 3 minutes before being blipped off by 45 itemsellers.
The ONLY part of the high finance market that is in the least supported by CCP is the existence of shares. Thats it. Nothing else. Everything else was created and controlled by players, in an appropriately placed forum where MD used to be.
CCP takes pride in the economics of EVE. Economists actually study it. College students are using it in projects and dissertations.
Is it really so much to ask for the upper teir investors in the EVE economy to have something resembling a quiet place to evaluate large transactions? If EVE models the real world in so many ways, why can't it model the real world in this way?
CCP - you have generated your newbie help economic channel and seeded it with experienced people, now please re-create an appropriate channel where the completely CCP-unsupported aspects of EVE can continue to flourish, rather than wither and die on the vine.
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Feronia
Gallente
Magma Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:46:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
So when someone comes in here and asks "Whats up with x" you can sorta understand why we let our nerdrage get to us.
Actually I can't understand. Is it that hard to just ignore threads like that ?
And I suppose its too much effort to direct them to the stickies or give them a link.
When someone comes in here and asks a question it shows they have a genuine interest in this part of the game and want to learn the game mechanics behind them. This should be encouraged instead of trolled to the ground. Even if it looks like a silly or dumb question.
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Kazzac Elentria
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Posted - 2008.12.02 13:56:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Feronia
When someone comes in here and asks a question it shows they have a genuine interest in this part of the game and want to learn the game mechanics behind them. This should be encouraged instead of trolled to the ground. Even if it looks like a silly or dumb question.
To be perfectly frank, if you cannot utilize the stickies and grasp the concept of researching information through eve search, you'll fail or get mediocre at best in any market activities you engage in. |
Cheopis
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.02 14:03:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Cheopis on 02/12/2008 14:03:34
Originally by: Rho'varo
Originally by: Cheopis
I'm sorry, but all arguments that do not point directly towards a new forum for market transactions are fail.
I encourage you and your like-minded colleagues to start that forum immediately. It will be good to get such patronising intolerance and elitism out of Market Discussions.
It would be good for you to actually think before insulting me.
A) You are indicating that I am patronizing. Well, yes, in the same way that an adult picks up a toddler before they walk out into traffic. Actually giving a damn about other people can be considered patronizing if you are sufficiently paranoid and antisocial.
B) Intolerance. Yes, I tend to be intolerant with those individuals that believe 2+2=5 or other similar, rediculous notions. Believing that putting Wall Street in Kindergarden is a even remotely acceptable solution is one of those things.
C) Elitism. Lol. Look back through my posting history. I support a new forum section because it is without any possible doubt whatsoever the appropriate thing to do to preserve and GROW the high end economic structures of EVE. Ego, yes, I have more than my share. Stubborn, yes. Once I decide something is right, it's really damn difficult to get me to change my mind. However I am listening. It's simply that I have heard nothing sensical from any counter argument.
The high end market is completely unsupported by CCP, and grew up in a nicely quiet place at the bottom of the forums. Now CCP is endangering the very structure of this market by transplanting it to a place where due diligence is practically impossible and the movers and shakers of the community are finding it harder and harder to actually do what was being done in the nicely hidden away corner where the backbone of the EVE economy was born.
There did need to be a general economics discussion thread. There now is one.
There does need to be a appropriate forum for large scale financial instrument transactions that are utterly unsupported by CCP ingame.
Having these two mixed together in one forum is rediculous, short sighted, and more likely than not the brainchild of the people who moderate the forum. The moderators of this forum don't give a damn what affect that have on EVE in-game by screwing with the marketplace out here that simply doesn't exist in-game. They only want to make things look neater and cleaner, and save .5 seconds every now and then.
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Popperr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.02 14:03:00 -
[110]
why not host your own forum
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Cheopis
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.02 14:09:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Popperr
why not host your own forum
Integrity of characters is the main problem.
The character you post with here is one you have access to ingame.
On other forums you have to verify this status first. Sure it can be done, but the easiest ways to do it are ways that a lot of people do not want to allow. You generally have to supply an API key when you want to sell a set of bonds, but not to buy them.
So what is likely to happen if API verification is required? Lots of sellers few buyers.
This can be worked around to some degree, but it will always be harder to convince buyers to be open with their information than the sellers. Sellers expect to be grilled. Buyers do not.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.12.02 14:19:00 -
[112]
I see all this talk of new forums etc. CCP launching the game in a box. The number of players grows massively.
Why hasn't anyone said what an opportunity this will be.
Let me think....
The number of players double, the amount of systems and asteroids stays the same, the number of ship sales go up.
The price of minerals goes.....
Lots of inexperienced missioners selling their loot cheaply for people to melt....
T1 ship production becomes more profitable...
There might be many more noobs out there, but I see lots and lots of opportunities to earn even more money.
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Feronia
Gallente
Magma Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.02 14:33:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Feronia on 02/12/2008 14:33:48
Originally by: Kazzac Elentria
To be perfectly frank, if you cannot utilize the stickies and grasp the concept of researching information through eve search, you'll fail or get mediocre at best in any market activities you engage in.
To be perfectly frank too, who are you to judge people by their first post here and label them as fail or mediocre before they even started. Everyone started as a small fish.
Maybe they won't turn into a big industrial tycoon or a successful trader, and maybe you think they're not worth your precious time. Nothing wrong with that, just ignore these threads. And let other people answer that want to help.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.02 15:26:00 -
[114]
I don't support splintering the forum. None of us will be around forever, and it is the responsibility of the "elites" to educate and guide the next "crop".
It's not always simple, and yes it is frustrating, but responsibility isn't always a fun and pleasent affair.
To put it another way; "Nothing worth doing is easy."
EBANK Staff | www.eve-bank.net
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.12.02 15:41:00 -
[115]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/12/2008 15:44:52
Originally by: Cheopis
B) Intolerance. Yes, I tend to be intolerant with those individuals that believe 2+2=5 or other similar, rediculous notions. Believing that putting Wall Street in Kindergarden is a even remotely acceptable solution is one of those things.
C) Elitism. Lol.
Hahah, the community is in a deplorable state, you've allowed yourselves to be manipulated by a severely impaired *(**&&^^ without even realizing how ridiculous and pathetic you look.
Wall Street? WTF are you talking about? Most of you are adults playing a child's game, now you want to run away with their toys as well? hahah
Somehow I think that Hexxx's lectures are coming back to haunt him. Too bad, but perhaps the following excerpt will confer depth to your anemic vision of things and even precipitate a sudden enlightenment as to your "condition" here:
Quote:
Buy orders are taken into account for the regional average quarterly.
And by quarterly, I mean annually.
Do not question economics. They are beyond you.
Black Sun Empire |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.12.02 15:46:00 -
[116]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 02/12/2008 15:42:10
Originally by: Cheopis
B) Intolerance. Yes, I tend to be intolerant with those individuals that believe 2+2=5 or other similar, rediculous notions. Believing that putting Wall Street in Kindergarden is a even remotely acceptable solution is one of those things.
C) Elitism. Lol.
Hahah, the community is in a deplorable state, you've allowed yourselves to be manipulated by a severely impaired *(**&&^^ without even realizing how ridiculous and pathetic you look.
Wallstreet? WTF are you talking about? Most of you are adults playing a child's game, now you want to run away with their toys as well? hahah
Somehow I think that Hexxx's lectures are coming back to haunt him. Too bad, but perhaps the following excerpt will confer depth to your anemic vision of things and even precipitate a sudden enlightenment as to your "condition" here:
Quote:
Buy orders are taken into account for the regional average quarterly.
And by quarterly, I mean annually.
Do not question economics. They are beyond you.
My lectures don't haunt me;
Anyone wishing to listen to the recorded version of one of my lectures on an introduction to markets, trading, and business can Google "HEXXX.RAR" or look up the industry podcast with LaVista Vista that plays the lecture.
They are an excellent starting point for people who are new to the markets and to business in EVE. I recommend having your client open while listening to it so you can follow along.
EBANK Staff | www.eve-bank.net
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Augeas
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Posted - 2008.12.02 15:54:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Rho'varo
Originally by: Cheopis
I'm sorry, but all arguments that do not point directly towards a new forum for market transactions are fail.
I encourage you and your like-minded colleagues to start that forum immediately. It will be good to get such patronising intolerance and elitism out of Market Discussions.
Yeah, GTFO. 
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.12.02 16:41:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Hexxx
My lectures don't haunt me;
They are an excellent starting point for people who are new to the markets and to business in EVE. I recommend having your client open while listening to it so you can follow along.
I'm sorry Hexxx, meanwhile they've been integrated in the Genesis chapter of the Elitist's Bible. 
Black Sun Empire |
Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
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Posted - 2008.12.02 20:17:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Cheopis
It would be good for you to actually think before insulting me.
My apologies if you misread my suggestion as an insult. It was a genuine suggestion that flows logically from your own remark, which I quoted. My choice of words was deliberate, and you concede that the key descriptive terms I used were accurate anyhow, so I'm not sure what part you found insulting.
To be clear: I'm not suggesting that you are a bad person or even that you are wrong. However much I disagree with your position, perhaps it should lead to action, and I did but suggest that you take that very action, especially since it would help Market Discussions get back to business.
What should be done?
At present, the only thing that I think might be worth changing with regard to the role of the Market Discussion, Sell Orders and Want Ad forums would be an official clarification that IPO threads are welcomed in Market Discussions (despite their "sales" nature), and that secondary resales of securities (be they shares instantiated in game or not) should be conducted in Sell Orders. (Perhaps secondary resellers should also be permitted to post in the Market Discussion threads of the securities that they are selling, though I didn't find this necessary myself when I recently sold several units.)
The Sell Orders forum has for years been an effective marketplace for a number of non-instantiated in-game services (e.g., third-party services like Chribba's, the sale and resale of shares and bonds) and even EVE-related things that are not conducted in-game at all (e.g., web hosting, graphic design of signatures).
Of course, I realise that not everyone agrees with my position, and I expect to be flexible enough to take advantage of whatever changes might occur to the official EVE forums or to the Market Discussions community.
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Cheopis
One Stop Mining Shop
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Posted - 2008.12.02 22:08:00 -
[120]
Originally by: cosmoray
I see all this talk of new forums etc. CCP launching the game in a box. The number of players grows massively.
Why hasn't anyone said what an opportunity this will be.
Let me think....
The number of players double, the amount of systems and asteroids stays the same, the number of ship sales go up.
The price of minerals goes.....
Lots of inexperienced missioners selling their loot cheaply for people to melt....
T1 ship production becomes more profitable...
There might be many more noobs out there, but I see lots and lots of opportunities to earn even more money.
Launching the game in box at retailers has the potential to be huge. And yes, there will be huge opportunities.
This has nothing to do with the proper form and function of a Q & A forum as compared to a high finance forum.
If you dig around on the web and see the reviews EVE gets, a lot of the best reviews make strong mention of the economy within EVE.
Follow me on this please:
1) Joe Player reads up on EVE, and thinks, hey, I like the idea of a mmo where there is a real-world like economy.
2) Joe player joins the game and is not one of the very very few who pick up on trade quickly, but he still wants to engage in the EVE economy. He buys a couple GTC's after a month ingame, and has 500 mill to invest.
3) Joe player has been coming to this forum off and on for a couple weeks, and sees a lot of high stakes money thrown around. He sees warnings, etc, but for the most part things look relatively kosher.
4) Joe player sees an investment opportunity that seems sound based on his limited knowledge. Several positive notes follow the offering, and Joe piles on, investing in what looks like a good thing.
5) MD vets see the post and start to question it. It turns out that it's a scam, and alts were used to talk it up. The scam only netted a couple billion, but some of it was Joe's isk that he just paid real money for.
6) Joe sends evemail asking for isk back, of course does not get it.
7) Joe leaves the game because of a bad experience.
Joe Player should NOT have been exposed to high finance fraud so easily. GTC's actually allowing extremely new players to safely acquire large sums of isk for real money is going to encourage MANY scam attempts when the playerbase rises.
Having a separate place for IPO's and bonds and other high finance offerings will not entirely remove the possibility of scamming the noobs out of their GTC isk, of course, but if they are required to be in a place where dedicated players can assess them without having to wade through how-to-trade-minerals 101 questions, quicker rejections and challenges are likely. This actually allows the "elitist" finance people the opportunity to serve even the youngest characters by flagging scam attempts. The non-"elitist" folks that don't mind answering noob questions will wander back and forth from forum to forum, and can assist in both places.
With only one forum, the "elitist" financiers will mostly abandon the noobs to their own fates, and offer no support at all, as they go off to wherever the high stakes tables relocate to.
This is fail waiting to happen, and needs to be avoided at all costs. CCP needs to realize that while it is indeed important to have a noob friendly economics forum, it is also absolutely critical to the health and prosperity of the high stakes markets that there be a separate forum for high stakes financial transactions that are almost completely unsupported ingame.
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