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Navy Raven wont sell- Proof of Nerf?

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Furb Killer Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:32:00 - [31] While torps arent affected by npc defenders, all other missiles are. Grouping missiles results in far less defenders fired by npcs -> more dps. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Tacit Blue Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:37:00 - [32] To the OP, i have some good new and some bad news. I do level 4s in my CNR. Heck, it even has 3 CCCs in the rig slots. And she does just fine even after the nerf. If in an unfrotunate accident i should lose my ship, i will be looking for another CNR. So the good news is this. I and many others who realized that the CNR is still great to run missions in will want another one if they have to replace their blown up one. The bad news - you are going to have to drop your price in order to sell it. 400mil isk is way too high an asking price.
MalVortex Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:48:00 - [33] I was looking at CNR just last night. Saw cheapest buyout at around 290mil. Add 45mil for 3x CCC 1 = 335mil total. You are overcharging by ~65mil. I wonder why it hasn't sold. /ponder ponder. Protip: If after a week your item hasn't sold, it is too expensive for the local market! Protip 2: QR did not significantly impact CNR prices. While there might be a handful of people trying to liquidate it from the missile change, the majority are not (no better ship to change to w/ that skillset). The drop in price is due to the massive number of players farming Caldari Navy LP. Increased CN-LP drives the isk/LP conversion down. Even worse, many of them buy the most LP-Expensive Item, with no regard to isk/LP conversion ratios for that item. So you have an overwhelming number of CNRs entering the market, further devaluing it. Grind better factions, buy better items for resale. The devaluation of Caldari LP and the CNR is a direct result of the number of players running those agents.
Ron Armatech	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Furb Killer While torps arent affected by npc defenders, all other missiles are. Grouping missiles results in far less defenders fired by npcs -> more dps. Didn't know that, thanks for useful info :) Back to the topic: people started selling more CNRs because Marauders were introduced, I don't believe all CNR pilots are idiots who sell their ships when they see "missiles got nerfed" statements while chewing thru the forums. Marauders take some time to trian and use properly so I think that after around a year or so pilots that possesed CNRs now are selling them to cover Golem expenses, or that pilots in general stick to raven and train skills that lead to getting into t2 BSes, ommiting CNR as it is not a must have for mission runner and isnt THAT cheap. Anyways I bought mine CNR no longer than 4 days ago for 320mil with 3x CCC rigs. Could be cheaper but i wanted to have it as fast as i could (typical for me when I have too much money in the wallet). Thats cheap, period. best regards, Ron
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.04 23:23:00 - [35] Maybe, with all the Caldari Navy mission farmers selling CNRs, they've finally reached saturation point. Anyone who wants one, has one. They all grind in Motsu, relatively safely, so losses are rare. I remember when I got a (then rare) CNR offer from an agent I was working for. Sold it for 1bn. Glad I changed to a non-Caldari agent before the LP store was released.
LordSax7648	Posted - 2008.12.05 17:50:00 - [36] The CNR or "NIR" as I call it, still is a great mission running boat. While the missile nerf may have added to the availability of these shipes (i.e. people selling them) I tend to agree with the majority. Simply supply and demand, there are more available so obviously the price is going to drop. CCC rigs are still a viable option depite some opinions to the contrary, so that I don't feel is your problem. To put it bluntly, your price isn't relative to the market price and while many are willing to part with some extra isk for convenience, obviously you haven't reached that threshold yet. I've had one for years and haven't really noticed any dropoff in performance, and if fact don't every plan on selling it. LS
Sexy Damsel	Posted - 2008.12.05 21:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: 4 LOM Did not read the thread or your whole post only the 3rd last line 3x CCC rigs.... Just because you fit the ship poorly does not mean other people want the same poorly fitted ship, why pay more for yours and have to strip out the poor choice in rigs when they can just get an unrigged one? Presumably those rigs were fit before the changes hit and where a very reasonable investment at the time. Personally, I find that you don't need that kind of cushion even on a standard raven before QR, but most raven pilots disagreed with me. Nevertheless, given that the CCC rigs are no longer optimal choices for the CNR, perhaps the ship would sell faster if it was being sold at a price representative of a stock standard CNR, since people will just jettison the rigs anyway if they're smart. I proly regret asking but what changes you are talking about? What has changed regarding CCC rigs?
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.05 21:33:00 - [38] Prices have been dropping steadily the last 6 months or so.. only the high demand for CNRs kept it up with so many people doing mission in caldari space it was just a matter of the market filling before prices hit bottom. The missilenerf might have caused a few to unload their ravens and move on to other ships which has increased supply and caused a further deflation of CNR value.. but that is simple market economics :) "Subtlety is a thing for philosophy, not combat. If you're going to kill someone, you might as well kill them a whole lot." - Vulcan Raven, The Last Days Of Foxhound
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:05:00 - [39] OMG I need skills to fly my CNR now to pwn LEVEL 4's Now CNR pilots know how Typhoon and Tempest Pilots have felt from the beggining of time
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:20:00 - [40] Originally by: NoNah The cheapest CNR on contracts is 290 mil. The rigs are presumably fitted, not the cookie cutter setup and hence more or less worthless. So you're asking a 38% overprice, in a tradehub(Mind you not the most active one) and suprised it doesn't sell? Would you ask for 120 mil for a normal Raven and be suprised if it didn't sell? This. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting

Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.12.06 08:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Caiman Graystock Edited by: Caiman Graystock on 04/12/2008 14:28:35 The CNR dropped in value long before QR. 300 without rigs is about the norm now. Sure, it sucks, and there are better things to buy in terms of value from the LP store, which if people start doing, might lead to a decrease in supply of CNRs and boost their price again. But the LP Store is to blame for introducing a large supply, coupled perhaps with ships like the Golem, rather than QR. I don't think the lp store is so much to blame (or were there a bunch of other offers at the 500/600k lp range?) it is more the sheer number of people farming level 4 missions. and lmao, I sold mine at the right time, 700mil right before EA came out
Anile8er Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2008.12.06 09:41:00 - [42] Proof of the ships carebear fail like nature. CNR is like 1 step up from Caracal which is 1 step up from Ibis.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.12.06 11:51:00 - [43] CNR is still quite fine missionrunner ... if you replace CCC rigs with warhead rigor catalysts. As far as price goes they have been tanking since LP store was introduced, as some people seem to think that it's bright idea to cash in in those ships getting a whole 300 isk/LP. Propably same kind of people who have free minerals if they mine those themselves. Well .. more power to them and happyhappy joyjoy for me.
NoNah	Posted - 2008.12.06 12:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Tacit Blue To the OP, i have some good new and some bad news. I do level 4s in my CNR. Heck, it even has 3 CCCs in the rig slots. And she does just fine even after the nerf. If in an unfrotunate accident i should lose my ship, i will be looking for another CNR. So the good news is this. I and many others who realized that the CNR is still great to run missions in will want another one if they have to replace their blown up one. The bad news - you are going to have to drop your price in order to sell it. 400mil isk is way too high an asking price. This is a very common, and in my eyes a very flawed way of looking at it. Most if not all ships can do most if not all level 4 missions. A few years back we used to do them in inties or in intie-thorax duos. Yes, it took time, and the profit was most certainly way better doing level 2's or just about anything else - but it def. worked. I'm not saying CNR's are pointless or bad at missions - I'm just saying wether or not a ship CAN do a mission says nothing, the question is just how long it takes. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 933329
Sharkk Caldari Stinkys Clam Shack	Posted - 2008.12.06 12:16:00 - [45] the missile nerf and the patch had little to do with CNR demand i suspect more likely every high sec lvl 4 mission ***** who wants a CNR already has one! have you been to any of the stations in lvl 4 mission hubs recently? those stations just spew out and endless procession of CNRs with out end and all those doods are out there havesting LP to turn into CNR's that they can sell..... supply and demand
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2008.12.06 16:47:00 - [46] Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 06/12/2008 16:48:06 The CNR is dirt cheap because there are ****loads of them and PPL like Golems. They are in fact now better than ever at blitzing level 4 missions if you have decent missile and drone skills. edit.. agrees with the post above and because of this reason expecting the price of Nightmares to drop dramaticaly in the next 6 months.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.12.06 17:50:00 - [47] Originally by: Anile8er Proof of the ships carebear fail like nature. CNR is like 1 step up from Caracal which is 1 step up from Ibis. 1500dps gank fit isn't all bad ;) -- 249km locking?
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2008.12.06 18:10:00 - [48] Couple of months ago I sold my caldari mission stud. It went for over the standard 20m combat toon and only lasted six hours. Missions are still completely out of whack for isk/hr and your finally starting to see a fallout of to many doing them. LPs are starting to get dumped by players that don't even care about isk/lp. I'd say stop running caldari mission hubs and get into different factions.
SharpMango 14th Legion	Posted - 2008.12.06 21:10:00 - [49] ur cnr market value is currently 315 mil. U have already lost 20mil or so in contract fees. Sori ur gona make a loss but u wil get liquid cash 4 what is a dead asset to u. And yes,i monitor cnr prices closely.
SharpMango 14th Legion	Posted - 2008.12.06 21:16:00 - [50] ur cnr market value is currently 315 mil. U have already lost 20mil or so in contract fees. Sori ur gona make a loss but u wil get liquid cash 4 what is a dead asset to u. And yes,i monitor cnr prices closely.

Joe Starbreaker Starbreaker Frigateers Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.12.06 22:35:00 - [51] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Originally by: Caiman Graystock It has nothing to do with the patch. Get a book on economics. ... I've read quite a few books and classes in several aspects of economics, including micro and macro, national and international, applied and theoretical. In my eyes the patch is the direct reason why the prices have gone down. Mind telling me how this is not so? The prices have gone down because dumb---es like you keep buying the things with LP and putting them on the market. A: Nobody is flying the things in PVP --> very few losses B: Dumb---es keep missioning in motsu and trading LP for CNRs C: Market, already oversupplied, gets more and more supply D: E: Price falls You're arguing that "D" is a decrease in the demand curve. I retort that there need not be any D. ............. Now recruiting like-minded pilots.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.12.06 22:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Joe Starbreaker The prices have gone down because dumb---es like you keep buying the things with LP and putting them on the market. A: Nobody is flying the things in PVP --> very few losses B: Dumb---es keep missioning in motsu and trading LP for CNRs C: Market, already oversupplied, gets more and more supply D: E: Price falls You're arguing that "D" is a decrease in the demand curve. I retort that there need not be any D. Aha, personally, I havn't ever sold a CNR. I've never ran a mission in Motsu and I've never traded LP for a CNR. Nice presumtion however. Since you claim to be of superior awareness to the likes of me, I'm presuming you have a grasp about the price history of the CNR, but still just for the random readers - I'll post a quick recap. Upon release of the Golem, the CNR was around 500mil per unit. Ever sicne that point it's been in constatn decline, by the time Quantum Rise was about to be released they were around 435mil average, with a channel of about 400-480mil. Now, little more than three weeks into quantum rise, they're at about 300 mil. So over 6 months you have an average decline per month of just above 2%. The last month has suffered a decline of approximately 31%. So you're saying that the natural deflation is so exponential that it's increased 1550% over the last month? And as for your little list, it's horribly inconsistent, D would eliminate A entirely if it would be a drop in demand. And C would equal B. And none of the points are unqiue to the last month, which does in no way explain the hike in cnr deflation. The only other alternative I can see would be that Quantum Rise made for a HUGE increase in supply, such as a boost in LP payouts or similiar - none of which I've heard of, and that would also be noticable on the amount of avaiable contracts.
Nai Weil Caldari Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.12.07 06:59:00 - [53] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Upon release of the Golem, the CNR was around 500mil per unit. Ever sicne that point it's been in constatn decline, by the time Quantum Rise was about to be released they were around 435mil average, with a channel of about 400-480mil. Navy Ravens were closer to 350 - 375 mil prior to Quantum Rise. I have been checking them periodically and never stopped whining to my corpmates how the CNR, which I didn't want, was so cheap, while the Navy Apoc, which I really wanted, stayed at around 430mil - 475 mil. There was, however, a short period of a week or so, just before QR, when there was a spike in prices, no idea why.
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE Black Legion.	Posted - 2008.12.07 07:18:00 - [54] Originally by: Furb Killer While torps arent affected by npc defenders, all other missiles are. Grouping missiles results in far less defenders fired by npcs -> more dps. Alot of people are missing this point. My lv4-running alt tried her CNR on SiSi and did fine. Patch came, I just kept on like before, and noticed.. I actually do my missions faster now than pre-patch. But I'm running Cruises, since alot of my missions have ships spawn at 90-135km, with some orbiting at well past 50km. Yup, cruise CNR's are doing better than they used to.
OffBeaT Caldari KaMiKaZes	Posted - 2008.12.07 07:49:00 - [55] tell me about it.. i cant keep a raven in space anymore solo. real sin, what a death trap solo..
Bald Rikk The Legendary Fleet	Posted - 2008.12.07 08:53:00 - [56] OP, CNR's sell just fine whem prices appropriately. Yours isn't (Even at 350m) Hint: Get it some distance from Jita/Motsu and you will get 10mil more ---------------------------------------------- Baldrikk CCP Navigator : - "Can I have your stuff", "stuff, can I haz it?" or any variation of these sayings is considered spam.
Zao Jin	Posted - 2008.12.07 13:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis I'd say its more proof that the market finally hit saturation. Why the hell people continue to turn in LP for the things beggars the mind, the ISK/LP is just horrible. Shhhh! At that price I can PvP in them. What boggles the mind is when I see people talk about losing them in a mission.
Malcanis Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.07 15:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Zao Jin Originally by: Jurgen Cartis I'd say its more proof that the market finally hit saturation. Why the hell people continue to turn in LP for the things beggars the mind, the ISK/LP is just horrible. Shhhh! At that price I can PvP in them. What boggles the mind is when I see people talk about losing them in a mission. Sometimes people have a little drinky when running missions...


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