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Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:32:00 - [1] After reading the discussions and arguments over how and where new players can ask questions and get answers, I had an idea for a new thread. Please read this entire post before responding as I hope to address everything all at once. Purpose: Ask any market related questions you feel you canÆt find in the stickies. If you ask a question that can be answered by reading a specific sticky then IÆll simply post a link to the appropriate sticky and I encourage anyone else reading the thread to do the same if they know the location of the specific resource that will answer the question. If you read a question and know the answer, please feel free to answer it in a polite manner. If you donÆt think you are capable or donÆt want to waste your timeà.then donÆt. ItÆs that simple. This is an attempt to create a central place for new players to ask questions and find quick solutions. What this is not: This is not the thread where you abuse someone asking a question or flame an answer. This thread will have noob questions most likely asked by new players, if you have a problem with that then please avoid this thread. You have been warned. If you donÆt want to participate in the question/answer process then please avoid this thread. Why: The biggest complaint IÆve seen is that new players arenÆt reading the stickies and are starting new threads to ask simple questions. After looking around the forums at the information available I came to the conclusion that the problem may not be entirely related to laziness as we previously thought. There is A LOT of information provided in the stickies at the top of this forum and A LOT of information contained in the threads on the first several pages. As a recent college graduate I can say one of the most difficult parts of most of my classes was writing papers over topics that had tons of resources available on them. It was very difficult to sift through all of the information that could easily be a 30+ page paper and try to write a 20 page maximum length paper. We have to remember that we have been along for the ride and have taken in most of the information as it became available. New players are hit with all of the information at once and are expected to be able to go through it all and make sense of it. Basic Guidelines: Obviously there is no way for me to enforce any rules for this thread other than to report the posting so IÆll call this section ôGuidelinesö. DonÆt flame/troll/break forum rules Please be polite when asking/answering questions, if you canÆt handle this please avoid this thread. DonÆt post asking for investors in this thread, that type of thing needs its own thread. Please avoid topics that would be better left for their own thread so that a full discussion could be had. If you want lots of feedback about an idea, do that idea justice by giving it its own thread. Or ask if a specific topic/idea should have its own thread, there may be 15 threads that thoroughly cover that topic that we can point you towards. If you read them and have something new then a new thread might be appropriate. Avoid this thread like the plague if you donÆt want to see noob questions or questions that you think are noob questions. There should be no question as to the types of things you will see here. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.04 22:34:00 - [2] Example Questions: Example Question: How much should I be charging to do courier contracts? Possible Answer: Several factors can go into answering such a question such as how much are others charging? How much is your time worth? How much collateral do you have? You should start by checking the Sell forums to see what others are charging and to see what the requirements/features are of their service. Taking that information into consideration along with the value you put on your time you should be able to come up with a pretty good idea. Example Question: What banks are there in Eve? Example Answer: You can find the list of banks in the stickies at the top of this forum under ôMarket Discussion Resource Threadö The Goal: The goal of this thread is to be able to provide a place for new players to ask questions without having to start a new thread or be afraid of the responses. As new players ask questions they will start to see that most of the answers can be answered by stickies or information that is on the forums and they will get used to using those resources. One could argue that this will become a crutch and make people not want to use the stickies but I think the opposite effect is more realistic. I see it as a way to point people to the stickies and other resources found on MD in a nice way rather than beating them up the first time they make the mistake of not doing research. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.12.04 23:52:00 - [3] Good luck with the thread and good idea creating it. Will probably need stickify to save daily bumps some time in the future if utilised.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.05 00:17:00 - [4] I'll contribute and answer questions as well. Come on, I'm famous! EBANK Staff \| www.eve-bank.net
Grendell Technologies Unlimited	Posted - 2008.12.05 00:44:00 - [5] Awesome idea, good luck. Let me know if you need any help.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.05 03:25:00 - [6] Thanks for the offers of help, please feel free to answer anything you feel capable of. As far as stickied, I'm not sure if that is a good idea or not as this somewhat addresses the issue of people not reading the stickies. If it is unpopular and has trouble staying on page 1 then it either isn't needed or it means MD is becoming more active and I will simply post a "Question/Answer" of the day. I got the idea from something I do with my students in class where each day they get a topic such as a new technology or some sort of question that they have to research and respond to or simply read and be informed. We'll see how it goes. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 05:43:00 - [7] Great idea. However, I doubt that it will work as well as you might hope. I do not believe the newbie that bounces into this channel and asks question #7 for the 203rd time is going to bother reading threads that do not immediately leap out with answers to their immediate concerns. Some newbies will, and for that reason alone it's worth trying.
Jade Grimpkin Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.12.05 06:16:00 - [8] Great idea. Anything to help the new trader start out is a good thing. it's a fun thing to do and the joy should be shared. I'll try to chip in with some answers if i know 'em. Jade p.s. feel free to drop by and ask questions here too "trader's academy" in game channel.
Simon Mance	Posted - 2008.12.05 07:57:00 - [9] Ok, I've read the stickies so I apologize in advance if the answers were in there and I missed them. I also searched the forums. I have been researching an item for possible trading, and it seems like a good prospect as it shows fairly high volumes and a decent spread between buy and sell orders. However there are a couple of things that show up in the price history tab that don't make sense to me -- 1. Despite the above-mentioned spread and volume, high and low prices on each trading day are usually identical or very close. Are outlier trades excluded from the price history tab? Or are only filled sell orders being reported, and not buy orders? Or something else? 2. Even on days for which there are identical (or near-identical) high and low prices for this item, the donchian channel shows a fairly sizeable spread. Is this because it is including information that had been excluded from the high/low columns? Or does the spread represented by the donchian channel on a particular date incorporate more than just that day's trades? (Perhaps the previous x days' trades? If so, x = ?) Many thanks in advance.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 08:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Simon Mance Ok, I've read the stickies so I apologize in advance if the answers were in there and I missed them. I also searched the forums. I have been researching an item for possible trading, and it seems like a good prospect as it shows fairly high volumes and a decent spread between buy and sell orders. However there are a couple of things that show up in the price history tab that don't make sense to me -- 1. Despite the above-mentioned spread and volume, high and low prices on each trading day are usually identical or very close. Are outlier trades excluded from the price history tab? Or are only filled sell orders being reported, and not buy orders? Or something else? 2. Even on days for which there are identical (or near-identical) high and low prices for this item, the donchian channel shows a fairly sizeable spread. Is this because it is including information that had been excluded from the high/low columns? Or does the spread represented by the donchian channel on a particular date incorporate more than just that day's trades? (Perhaps the previous x days' trades? If so, x = ?) Many thanks in advance. I do not believe anyone has managed to parse exactly what gets counted and how, and I'm pretty certain that CCP has never divulged their methods of collecting data for market history. There is definitely some selectivity involved somehow. You are not seeing everything, in at least some cases.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.12.05 08:24:00 - [11] Edited by: SencneS on 05/12/2008 08:25:24 I'd recommend to all of MD if someone creates a new thread and asks a noob question the only post that should be on there is a link to this thread. Saying "Maybe you should ask here" No reason to feed the noobs and lazy people with information. If they get an answer with their laziness they will expect an answer every time. Pointing them to the right location to ask the question means they will not only find the answer they are looking for. It will also help every other noob as they will look in a single thread. Amarr for Life
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 08:32:00 - [12] Originally by: SencneS Edited by: SencneS on 05/12/2008 08:25:24 I'd recommend to all of MD if someone creates a new thread and asks a noob question the only post that should be on there is a link to this thread. Saying "Maybe you should ask here" No reason to feed the noobs and lazy people with information. If they get an answer with their laziness they will expect an answer every time. Pointing them to the right location to ask the question means they will not only find the answer they are looking for. It will also help every other noob as they will look in a single thread. Up to a certain level I agree, but when we have a lot of people on box set release all asking lots of different questions at once, this thread is gonna get mighty complicated, especially if some reasonably complex questions get asked, or bad advice is given. As long as there are small numbers of new folks, it's a good idea though
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.05 08:40:00 - [13] Originally by: Simon Mance 1. Despite the above-mentioned spread and volume, high and low prices on each trading day are usually identical or very close. Are outlier trades excluded from the price history tab? Or are only filled sell orders being reported, and not buy orders? Or something else? The price history will only reflect the actual transactions that have happened across the entire region. So if the item was bought and sold at the same price during the day, despite there being different prices listed on the market, it'd be that price that is reflected in the history. So basically, what you garner from the price history is what people are prepared to actually pay for the item, regardless of the orders that are set up. If you for instance set up an order in a station somewhere else in the Forge for 1m over the best buy price where this item isn't traded and buy it yourself, you will see that reflected as the high price within the price history the next day in Jita - so the info isn't totally infallible in that it can be played with, and thus not 100% trustworthy. Therefore you still need to know the cost basis of building the item as well (if possible), to truly understand the items value. Originally by: Simon Mance 2. Even on days for which there are identical (or near-identical) high and low prices for this item, the donchian channel shows a fairly sizeable spread. Is this because it is including information that had been excluded from the high/low columns? Or does the spread represented by the donchian channel on a particular date incorporate more than just that day's trades? (Perhaps the previous x days' trades? If so, x = ?) The Donchian channel shows the spread of the best buy/sell order that has happened according to the price history data. So basically it presents you with the range of prices that traders are prepared to trade at. Theoretically if you have a wide channel, it should be an indication the item is volatile, while if it's narrow, the price is stable. What matters however is the little yellow dot and the lines below and above it - the yellow dot is the regional average and the lines are the high/low prices reflected in the price history. If you look closely, those lines usually touch the boundaries of the Donchian channel, thus it shows the range of high/low orders at a glance. Hexxx explains how to interpret all of this amazingly well in his workshop. I think you can find it by googling 'hexxx.rar' if you need to know more. Chairman \| www.eve-bank.net
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 09:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Mr Horizontal Originally by: Simon Mance 1. Despite the above-mentioned spread and volume, high and low prices on each trading day are usually identical or very close. Are outlier trades excluded from the price history tab? Or are only filled sell orders being reported, and not buy orders? Or something else? The price history will only reflect the actual transactions that have happened across the entire region. So if the item was bought and sold at the same price during the day, despite there being different prices listed on the market, it'd be that price that is reflected in the history. So basically, what you garner from the price history is what people are prepared to actually pay for the item, regardless of the orders that are set up. If you for instance set up an order in a station somewhere else in the Forge for 1m over the best buy price where this item isn't traded and buy it yourself, you will see that reflected as the high price within the price history the next day in Jita - so the info isn't totally infallible in that it can be played with, and thus not 100% trustworthy. Therefore you still need to know the cost basis of building the item as well (if possible), to truly understand the items value. Originally by: Simon Mance 2. Even on days for which there are identical (or near-identical) high and low prices for this item, the donchian channel shows a fairly sizeable spread. Is this because it is including information that had been excluded from the high/low columns? Or does the spread represented by the donchian channel on a particular date incorporate more than just that day's trades? (Perhaps the previous x days' trades? If so, x = ?) The Donchian channel shows the spread of the best buy/sell order that has happened according to the price history data. So basically it presents you with the range of prices that traders are prepared to trade at. Theoretically if you have a wide channel, it should be an indication the item is volatile, while if it's narrow, the price is stable. What matters however is the little yellow dot and the lines below and above it - the yellow dot is the regional average and the lines are the high/low prices reflected in the price history. If you look closely, those lines usually touch the boundaries of the Donchian channel, thus it shows the range of high/low orders at a glance. Hexxx explains how to interpret all of this amazingly well in his workshop. I think you can find it by googling 'hexxx.rar' if you need to know more. Neither the graphical nor the text based market history reflect all sales. CCP either intentionally (or unintentionally) cuts some off. I've seen my own buys and sells go completely unrepresented in the market history when I get really good deals on buys, or find really high buy orders to fill. I've never tried to track near-median priced items. I suspect bell curves are involved. The market information is a good tool to analyze typical market value, it won't tell you everything.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.05 15:24:00 - [15] Got this question in my evemail today so I'll post it and answer it. FYI, if you would rather evemail me your question for whatever reason that is fine. I'll simply post it here. Question: How can you create corp contracts in a station where your corp doesn't have an office and/or there are no offices available to rent? Answer: Contract the item(s) to yourself. When you go to accept the contract just accept it on behalf of your corp. The item(s) will be moved to the deliveries hangar and you can then create a new contract on behalf of your corp and select items located in the deliveries hangar. That's all there is to it. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.12.05 15:38:00 - [16] Verry nice idea AC155 and i sure hope this helps against the numerous threads we had here lately with topics that have been discussed and handled for many times and are easy to find.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.12.05 16:36:00 - [17] Okay, nice idea, but there's already a place where nUbs will ask the same questions over and over and over... It's called the MD forum :) Easier to click "New Post" than bothering with actually reading anything RPGN.net Gaming Network - Eve Gaming News, Forums & Blog Nutwork Web Design - Designing Websites for Eve Online
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.05 17:06:00 - [18] Thanks for opening up an avenue for questions from us noobs! There is so much information posted in just this section it is a bit overwhelming at times. There are so many methods to work the market to make money, I'm sure I've only scratched the surface. My question is: To go along with the above discussions on the market information data, how do you see "volume" of sales? I have figured out the price history info, but I have not found anything about volume. Also, when looking at the market info, what time frame do you usually use? Week, monthly, etc? I have also started trading and working buy orders recently. So far I have been able to more then triple my first investment amount. When trying to price your product competitively, how many jumps out do you try and match or beat their prices? I understand the .01 isk business (to make sure you are the lowest price) to win the sale, does this only apply to competing sales in your own station or does it apply further out such as within your system or further? And last question (I promise), is there a list or website for wholesale vendors willing to sell directly to traders? Being a business owner in real life, buying wholesale is the only real way to make money and grow your business, and I have seen a few discussion about such ventures in this section. But not a "list" of such people. Thanks to all those who have shared experiences, I have learned a lot as of late! And still more to learn!
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.05 17:26:00 - [19] You can see the volume traded via the graph, its the green bar located along the bottom half of the graph, or if you choose the "See Table" button, you can actually see the individual volumes per day. When looking at market info, the length of time you want to view is wholly dependent on the item being traded and what info you are attempting to obtain. An example of this would be the yearly graph for trit, you can see each spike corresponds with patch releases. Zero down into the 6 month view and you can trace out where the spike started circa Orca announcement. (something not easily viewable in the year view) Your strategy of trade will change as you volume and capital increases, I won't go into specifics but I will tell you that eventually you can get to the point where individual region, or 3 jump orders, etc.. will become meaningless and you can start to focus more on individual orders strategically placed in a single station. This of course assumes your trading in what I think you might be trading in. Post your wholesale wants in the want to buy section of the forums. You'll get bites pretty easily and its not hard to find corporations in game who are willing to setup dedicated purchase or sale contracts.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.05 17:58:00 - [20] Originally by: Lord Zarcam Thanks for opening up an avenue for questions from us noobs! There is so much information posted in just this section it is a bit overwhelming at times. There are so many methods to work the market to make money, I'm sure I've only scratched the surface. My question is: To go along with the above discussions on the market information data, how do you see "volume" of sales? I have figured out the price history info, but I have not found anything about volume. Also, when looking at the market info, what time frame do you usually use? Week, monthly, etc? I have also started trading and working buy orders recently. So far I have been able to more then triple my first investment amount. When trying to price your product competitively, how many jumps out do you try and match or beat their prices? I understand the .01 isk business (to make sure you are the lowest price) to win the sale, does this only apply to competing sales in your own station or does it apply further out such as within your system or further? And last question (I promise), is there a list or website for wholesale vendors willing to sell directly to traders? Being a business owner in real life, buying wholesale is the only real way to make money and grow your business, and I have seen a few discussion about such ventures in this section. But not a "list" of such people. Thanks to all those who have shared experiences, I have learned a lot as of late! And still more to learn! Kazzac covered a lot of this already, but one thing I didn't see mention of is what range you need to compete at. Most people will not bother to go to another system for a couple isk difference in pricing. Noobs might since they have very little isk. Established characters won't waste their time. If you have what they need at the lowest price in the station they are in, they probably won't move - even if there is another better price in the same system, different station. The same goes for the selling habits of most mission runners.
Alatari Gallente Winterdawn	Posted - 2008.12.05 18:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Cheopis Neither the graphical nor the text based market history reflect all sales. CCP either intentionally (or unintentionally) cuts some off. I've seen my own buys and sells go completely unrepresented in the market history when I get really good deals on buys, or find really high buy orders to fill. I've never tried to track near-median priced items. I suspect bell curves are involved. The market information is a good tool to analyze typical market value, it won't tell you everything. 2 standard deviations, I believe. A couple of years ago a Dev did explain which orders they drop from the market history; I'll dig around and see if I can find the post again. -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.05 18:56:00 - [22] Thanks guys! That confirms what I've been experiencing lately. I mostly trade T-2 modules because of the pontential profit margins. So far it's working well.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.05 19:37:00 - [23] Originally by: Lord Zarcam Also, when looking at the market info, what time frame do you usually use? Week, monthly, etc? This depends solely on my investing time frame. If I'm looking for a "day trading" opportunity (means for me that I'm actively trading and don't plan to hold any of it when I'm done trading), then all that matters is a few day history which shows adequate volume, number of trades, and a decent balance between buy and sell orders. If I'm looking to invest in something over months, then I look at the whole year history to get a feel for what sort of events change the price of the good. Sometimes I just nose around. For that the year time frame is best to start with. It shows you all the excitement of the past year. I can then focus on particular time frames, if there's some recent behavior that looks interesting.
Simon Mance Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.05 19:59:00 - [24] Thanks everyone for the responses.
Beer Me	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:27:00 - [25] I see a few market tools in these forums, and I'm sure there are more that my rather cursory search didn't bring up. I've been using some homemade spreadsheets to track my purchases and sales in the attempt to aid myself in making some money. However it's becoming more of a PITA then I want. All I need is something to track my rather limited market ventures, expenditures and profits (just buying and selling stuff, though it is over 2 characters)without me having to manually enter the data everytime something sells. Also, I run 64bit Vista, so it'd be really, really nice if it was compatible with that. Can anyone recommend something? Simple is better tbh, I just don't want to do it by hand anymore. Thanks so much for the advice!
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:39:00 - [26] Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 05/12/2008 23:42:02 Beer Me, please read the stickied thread "Market Discussion Resource Thread", specifically the second post which lists links to several applications (although it presently overlooks EMMA, which is listed later in that thread I referenced; hint-hint Mitnal). Also, there is another application which is called "EVEWalletAware" which the software author hasn't (yet?) asked to be included on the MD resource thread (I don't know why not). MDD (Edit: linkified) Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.06 18:26:00 - [27] Quick question this time (I hope). When placing a market Buy order for a module (for reprocessing purposes) for say a 3 jump area and someone comes in that is outside this area but places a region wide buy order, and are offering a higher purchase price, their order will override mine everytime, right? Likewise, if someone has a region wide order and I offer a higher purchase price but for a 3-jump area, I would win those orders within my 3-jump area? Just trying to confirm the machanics of the market. I'm I looking at this correctly? Thanks!
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.06 18:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Lord Zarcam Quick question this time (I hope). When placing a market Buy order for a module (for reprocessing purposes) for say a 3 jump area and someone comes in that is outside this area but places a region wide buy order, and are offering a higher purchase price, their order will override mine everytime, right? Likewise, if someone has a region wide order and I offer a higher purchase price but for a 3-jump area, I would win those orders within my 3-jump area? Just trying to confirm the machanics of the market. I'm I looking at this correctly? Thanks! I believe that is correct in both situations. The highest priced buy order will override all other buy orders within the area that the highest priced buy order is placed. A couple of examples: Buy order A is placed for the entire region @ 100 p/u (per unit). Buy order B is placed for a 3 jump radius @ 101 p/u. Anyone who sells that mod within that 3 jump radius will fill the buy order B so long as they meet the quantity requirements of the order. Anyone who sells outside of that 3 jump radius but still within that region will fill buy order A so long as they meet the order's quantity requirements. Hope that helps. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.06 18:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Lord Zarcam Quick question this time (I hope). When placing a market Buy order for a module (for reprocessing purposes) for say a 3 jump area and someone comes in that is outside this area but places a region wide buy order, and are offering a higher purchase price, their order will override mine everytime, right? Likewise, if someone has a region wide order and I offer a higher purchase price but for a 3-jump area, I would win those orders within my 3-jump area? Just trying to confirm the machanics of the market. I'm I looking at this correctly? Thanks! I believe that is correct in both situations. The highest priced buy order will override all other buy orders within the area that the highest priced buy order is placed. A couple of examples: Buy order A is placed for the entire region @ 100 p/u (per unit). Buy order B is placed for a 3 jump radius @ 101 p/u. Anyone who sells that mod within that 3 jump radius will fill the buy order B so long as they meet the quantity requirements of the order. Anyone who sells outside of that 3 jump radius but still within that region will fill buy order A so long as they meet the order's quantity requirements. Hope that helps. Yes. That's what I was thinking. Thank You!
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.07 00:24:00 - [30] For a trader that has the margin trading skill, it becomes possible to place more buy orders than one has assets (that being the point of the skill). What happens when you buy enough to completely deplete your cash on hand? Do you go into negative cash? Do your remaining buy orders go away?
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2008.12.07 00:57:00 - [31] Originally by: Tasko Pal For a trader that has the margin trading skill, it becomes possible to place more buy orders than one has assets (that being the point of the skill). What happens when you buy enough to completely deplete your cash on hand? Do you go into negative cash? Do your remaining buy orders go away? If a buy order is filled for which you do not have the available cash that order simply gets wiped out and the person who tried to fill it gets an "order nolonger available" message and has to try selling it again. Even if someone was only trying to sell you 10 units on a 1000 unit order, if you don't have the money that order gets canceled in its entirety but your other orders won't be affected.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.07 01:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Lord Zarcam Quick question this time (I hope). When placing a market Buy order for a module (for reprocessing purposes) for say a 3 jump area and someone comes in that is outside this area but places a region wide buy order, and are offering a higher purchase price, their order will override mine everytime, right? Likewise, if someone has a region wide order and I offer a higher purchase price but for a 3-jump area, I would win those orders within my 3-jump area? Just trying to confirm the machanics of the market. I'm I looking at this correctly? Thanks! Correct. There are two exceptions to this rule, however. One of them, quantity restrictions, has already been addressed. The other is completely invisible to the seller. Margin trading allows players to create buy orders larger than their finances actually will allow to complete. This means that on occasion, you might see a opne buy order that you think you can sell to, but if the buyer cannot cover the expense of buying it, the sell will fail. At one point this would simply lead to a complete inability to sell an item, if the Margin traded order was best price. I'm not certain if this has been addressed, as I no longer sell modules, I buy them, melt them, and sell minerals. It was a somewhat rare occurrence to my experience before, but was occasionally highly annoying.
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop	Posted - 2008.12.07 01:33:00 - [33] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Tasko Pal For a trader that has the margin trading skill, it becomes possible to place more buy orders than one has assets (that being the point of the skill). What happens when you buy enough to completely deplete your cash on hand? Do you go into negative cash? Do your remaining buy orders go away? If a buy order is filled for which you do not have the available cash that order simply gets wiped out and the person who tried to fill it gets an "order nolonger available" message and has to try selling it again. Even if someone was only trying to sell you 10 units on a 1000 unit order, if you don't have the money that order gets canceled in its entirety but your other orders won't be affected. Meh, shows me what I get for not flipping the page They have apparently fixed the problem I had encountered in the past then :)
Johnny Rockefeller Builders League United	Posted - 2008.12.07 06:02:00 - [34] Edited by: Johnny Rockefeller on 07/12/2008 06:02:51 Edited by: Johnny Rockefeller on 07/12/2008 06:01:59 Originally by: Mr Horizontal Hexxx explains how to interpret all of this amazingly well in his workshop. I think you can find it by googling 'hexxx.rar' if you need to know more. I've heard about this workshop but I haven't been able to find a copy of it. Apparently it was moved to eve-files.com after it's original hosting site went down, but it doesn't seem to be anymore. All I get in a Google search are mentions of it on these forums and some very sketchy looking sites that I don't think I want to download anything from. Is it still hosted somewhere? I'd very much like to check it out. Edit- Sweet, I'm not a ! anymore.
CornerStoner	Posted - 2008.12.07 18:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Johnny Rockefeller Edited by: Johnny Rockefeller on 07/12/2008 06:02:51 Edited by: Johnny Rockefeller on 07/12/2008 06:01:59 Originally by: Mr Horizontal Hexxx explains how to interpret all of this amazingly well in his workshop. I think you can find it by googling 'hexxx.rar' if you need to know more. I've heard about this workshop but I haven't been able to find a copy of it. Apparently it was moved to eve-files.com after it's original hosting site went down, but it doesn't seem to be anymore. All I get in a Google search are mentions of it on these forums and some very sketchy looking sites that I don't think I want to download anything from. Is it still hosted somewhere? I'd very much like to check it out. Edit- Sweet, I'm not a ! anymore. I uploaded it for you. Here ya go!
Johnny Rockefeller Builders League United	Posted - 2008.12.07 18:25:00 - [36] Originally by: CornerStoner I uploaded it for you. Here ya go! Awesome, thanks!
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.08 14:37:00 - [37] Originally by: CornerStoner I uploaded it for you. Here ya go! Thanks for that Cornerstoner, I wanted a copy as well. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
LadyOfWrath Caldari One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research	Posted - 2008.12.08 16:14:00 - [38] This is a great idea as an alternative to having a new thread as it allows a proper mesh of new players getting into the market with veterans able to help (as long as its not direct competition ). I'll be happy to lend a hand every now and then and I'll try and keep up with this thread however I am usually very busy. I wish you the best. Regards, LoW
Joseph Shephard	Posted - 2008.12.09 02:26:00 - [39] I have a question regarding pricing of T2 BPOs. I'm a new manufacturer/trader with my own little startup corporation Arcelor Capital. It only took us about a week of T1 production to begin looking through contracts at the T2 BPOs just so we could begin dreaming about the future. The thing we noticed is that most T2 BPOs cost about 3 Billion ISK for a cheap BPO and can be tens of billions of ISK for a high-end T2 BPO. The question I have is how can any corporation actually value a BPO so highly given the fact that every patch and change can dramatically effect the value of your product and of your BPO? The best example I can think of is this: I saw an Armor EM Hardener II BPO with asking price of 15 Billion. The product is highly profitable to manufacture. Every item you make can be sold with relative ease for (rough estimate) 500,000 ISK. You can make about 12 of the modules each day. Hence, your daily profit without expending too much effort is 6 Million ISK. That was with decent ME, PE, and a good time multiplier on manufacturing, etc. 6 Million ISK per day in profit is no small amount, but then I got to thinking about the fact that it would take (2500 days = more than six years) of profit to pay off that BPO. Now, of course, you could be profitable if you manufactured for a year, made 6Million*365days = 2.2 Billion ISK in profit, and then resold that same BPO for 15 Billion ISK again. Then problem is, a lot could happen in a year that could make it impossible to sell your product, your BPO, or both profitably. For instance, mineral prices could change and eat away at your profit margin, making the BPO worth less. A new item could be introduced into the game that serves a similar function -- therefore diminishing or obliterating demand for your product. A whole new system of T2 or even T3 BPOs could be introduced that would diminish the demand for your BPO or your product. Maybe after three years there has been a decrease in the Eve playerbase that makes it impossible to sell all 12 units per day. Given the long time horizon on T2 BPO investments, is there any real economic reason why someone should be willing to make a one to six year investment in them when any part of the economy (large or small) could be altered by game mechanics or developers at any time? Thanks for any input -- clearly I'm not buying one of these for a while, I was just interested in how it all works.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.09 02:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Joseph Shephard I have a question regarding pricing of T2 BPOs. I'm a new manufacturer/trader with my own little startup corporation Arcelor Capital. It only took us about a week of T1 production to begin looking through contracts at the T2 BPOs just so we could begin dreaming about the future. The thing we noticed is that most T2 BPOs cost about 3 Billion ISK for a cheap BPO and can be tens of billions of ISK for a high-end T2 BPO. The question I have is how can any corporation actually value a BPO so highly given the fact that every patch and change can dramatically effect the value of your product and of your BPO? The best example I can think of is this: I saw an Armor EM Hardener II BPO with asking price of 15 Billion. The product is highly profitable to manufacture. Every item you make can be sold with relative ease for (rough estimate) 500,000 ISK. You can make about 12 of the modules each day. Hence, your daily profit without expending too much effort is 6 Million ISK. That was with decent ME, PE, and a good time multiplier on manufacturing, etc. 6 Million ISK per day in profit is no small amount, but then I got to thinking about the fact that it would take (2500 days = more than six years) of profit to pay off that BPO. Now, of course, you could be profitable if you manufactured for a year, made 6Million*365days = 2.2 Billion ISK in profit, and then resold that same BPO for 15 Billion ISK again. Then problem is, a lot could happen in a year that could make it impossible to sell your product, your BPO, or both profitably. For instance, mineral prices could change and eat away at your profit margin, making the BPO worth less. A new item could be introduced into the game that serves a similar function -- therefore diminishing or obliterating demand for your product. A whole new system of T2 or even T3 BPOs could be introduced that would diminish the demand for your BPO or your product. Maybe after three years there has been a decrease in the Eve playerbase that makes it impossible to sell all 12 units per day. Given the long time horizon on T2 BPO investments, is there any real economic reason why someone should be willing to make a one to six year investment in them when any part of the economy (large or small) could be altered by game mechanics or developers at any time? Thanks for any input -- clearly I'm not buying one of these for a while, I was just interested in how it all works. Their limited edition nature makes them valuable. Most people are also counting on the fact that they will recoup their purchase price when they themselves at sometime sell the bpo on. Yes it is a long term gamble that CCP wont nerf what your T2 BPO makes, but then again often in the long term that item will come back into favor and be "boosted" back into FOTM again at some point. The last factor to consider. Some people have so much isk, they have nothing better to spend it on. There are players that have Trillions of isk, and have nothing better to invest it in. -- Chribba's LoveQuest 17:00hrs Dec. 20th (Prizes!!)
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 08:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Joseph Shephard T2 question T2 BPOs are high-value assets that have a return associated with them, in that you will make ISK from them. What the ROI from a T2 BPO is, has been drastically affected by invention, so in reality, you own this overpriced print that will return a tidy ROI, but that ROI relative to the outlay is quite low. With any T2 BPO, you must know how much the item costs to invent, as the BPO owner will not be able to out-supply inventors, but you can undercut them. The whole model of 1-2 year ROI being the essential 'value' of a T2 BPO, IMO, was thought up by some teenager, as it's a ridiculous model. However, while sellers will argue till they're blue in the face, I consider the value of a BPO to be 1 year's production at NPC station output. You can get more production from a POS, and sellers will try to value it at 18 months to 24 months from the output of a POS, but tbh, you only pay that kind of money for ultra important BPOs where you want to shut out competition or build a pile of BPOs of the same type to corner the market via manipulation and where inventors simply have no chance of competing for you. Naturally then, where inventors are shut out of the market, those BPOs are super valuable, since the output can be pricefixed arbitrarily to your liking. The other thing about BPOs, is they themselves are tradeable commodities. While you may pay such an extortionate figure for a BPO to begin with, equally you'll also be able to sell it for an extortionate figure, and probably more than you bought it for, so by holding the BPO, it's an asset that can if you know what you're doing make you a basic income from producing from it, and also resell it for the same if not more if you need to liquidate that capital. So you are not under any obligation to actually own the BPO for the entire 12-24 months - you can always cash out whenever you need. Chairman \| www.eve-bank.net
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.09 14:45:00 - [42] Seen a lot of people whine about 0.01 ISK sellers and why things are manipulated. For this, there was a thread explaining some very key concepts of trading (manipulation, velocity trades, and pros and cons). Have a read here. Chairman \| www.eve-bank.net
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.12.09 14:56:00 - [43] Originally by: Mr Horizontal The whole model of 1-2 year ROI being the essential 'value' of a T2 BPO, IMO, was thought up by some teenager, as it's a ridiculous model. However, while sellers will argue till they're blue in the face, I consider the value of a BPO to be 1 year's production at NPC station output. Wow, you claim naivety on the part of those sticking to the one to two year ROI; and then follow up with an absurd comment so ironic one could only consider you're either playing or being the fool. The only value you can attach to a blueprint is the price obtained at time of sale, no other figure is relevant. The interpretation of value is what drives the market value, and market value is therefore what ever someone feels a blueprint is worth. The same could be said for businesses, they're only worth as little or as much as the purchaser is willing to pay for them. You do however set guidelines to value a business as the profit over n period. There is nothing different with a blueprint. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.10 23:56:00 - [44] Another question sent to me via evemail, if someone would like to answer this that would be great. I've got no answer that I feel is adequate for this question. Question: I'm looking to get into manufacturing after having spent the majority of my short eve life in missioning. I've got a small amount of isk saved up, a couple billion, and I'm wondering what the best course of action would be. I've identified several T1 items that I'm interested in and that I have ran the numbers for. 1. Should I purchase the BPO's off the market and then research them or buy researched bpo's? (I've found some researched but they are quite a bit more expensive). 2. How should I handle the movement of minerals from, say, Jita to my manufacturing hub? 3. How should I decide on where to concentrate my sales if the main hubs show fairly even sales data? (split it amongst them?) Thanks in advance. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.11 01:42:00 - [45] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Another question sent to me via evemail, if someone would like to answer this that would be great. I've got no answer that I feel is adequate for this question. Question: I'm looking to get into manufacturing after having spent the majority of my short eve life in missioning. I've got a small amount of isk saved up, a couple billion, and I'm wondering what the best course of action would be. I've identified several T1 items that I'm interested in and that I have ran the numbers for. 1. Should I purchase the BPO's off the market and then research them or buy researched bpo's? (I've found some researched but they are quite a bit more expensive). 2. How should I handle the movement of minerals from, say, Jita to my manufacturing hub? 3. How should I decide on where to concentrate my sales if the main hubs show fairly even sales data? (split it amongst them?) Thanks in advance. I'll take this one 1. Opinions are split and it depends on how much time you really have or want to invest in the operation. Option A, you purchase the BPOs researched already. If you scour the sell forums and contracts market very often you can get originals researched at a steal. This of course, takes time and it may take longer than you planned since you have to wait for BPO you want to come up. Option B, you purchase the non researched prints and join a research alliance or have someone research them for you. You get what you want, and very likely get it sooner. The trader in me mandates that you go the research alliance route since its pretty easy to get a research alt up, and you don't have to worry about handing your prints over to someone you don't know. I'm to lazy at the moment, but I'm sure someone can link to one of the many research services. 2. It depends on your volume really. In the case of my capital production arm, I contract most of my mineral movements out. Paying a freight service to pick up my minerals and move them 3 or 8 jumps out depending on my build location. Alternative you can move them yourself. This of course assume you can fly a freighter, since you will be burning through that much minerals. You can supplement this by having perfect reprocess and purchasing compressed minerals from one of the few compression services still left in EVE as well. Also, you can add to your growing stock by placing buy orders at your build location for minerals and accepting the steady, albeit slow, influx from there as well. This will alleviate some pressure on the amount of minerals you might need. 3. If you are getting into T1, margin is important but volume is king for the most part. Its better for your inventory to move fast than it is at the best regional price. Sure someone may be selling Thorax's at 7m in Ours, but maybe you can move twice the amount at 6m in Dodi for instance.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.12 04:55:00 - [46] The short version of the 'velocity' argument: A typical large volume low margin trade is hauling Tritanium that you bought in a mining system for 3.0 ISK over to a minor trade hub and selling it for 3.3 ISK, then immediately turning around to do the same haul twice in the time it would have taken you to haul that load of Tritanium to the major trade hub to sell it for 3.5 ISK. Hauling the same load the same distance for less profit is someone else's burden.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.12.12 14:30:00 - [47] Edited by: flakeys on 12/12/2008 14:32:10 Simple question qnd i think i wont like the answer. My corp buys regional and on corp wallet.Needless to say my deliveries boxis filled to the roof.Here's the thing: Only one of my tradechars flies the freighter and she picks up only the large batches.Now to put the items in delivery to herself takes me ages.I can leave it in deliveries but then it's even more confusing snce i have 2 regions under my wingthus have an enormous amount of stations where stuff is.Also on deliveries you can not set it so it says unlike in your own assets how much items are in that station and the jumprange. Question is there a faster way to do this?
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:07:00 - [48] Originally by: flakeys buy order collection question The answer you don't want: courier contracts, get everything to one station per system for the freighter runs. Can be slow/unreliable waiting for someone to take the jobs, cost a bundle to do a lot of them. The answer you seem to have overlooked: Corp assets has a search function that allows you to search on things like item type groups and minimum volume. I don't do regional buys, but I do multi-jump buys in different regions. Using the search, I don't even undock if there isn't enough. Once I'm local to a large pick up I'll do a quick rundown of the main deliveries tab just looking at stations I'm close to for the main one. Oh, and if you do a wide variety of items you should be able to get an idea of which items to search for based on how much of your orders have filled. ----- Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.12.12 18:41:00 - [49] Edited by: flakeys on 12/12/2008 18:43:50 Originally by: SonO*host Originally by: flakeys buy order collection question The answer you don't want: courier contracts, get everything to one station per system for the freighter runs. Can be slow/unreliable waiting for someone to take the jobs, cost a bundle to do a lot of them. The answer you seem to have overlooked: Corp assets has a search function that allows you to search on things like item type groups and minimum volume. I don't do regional buys, but I do multi-jump buys in different regions. Using the search, I don't even undock if there isn't enough. Once I'm local to a large pick up I'll do a quick rundown of the main deliveries tab just looking at stations I'm close to for the main one. Oh, and if you do a wide variety of items you should be able to get an idea of which items to search for based on how much of your orders have filled. Thanks for answering , I do a hell of a load of different types so searching for volume is not the way i go unfort.Seeing that i have about every T1 and a load of T2 items on order and about 600 orders so far , i usually look at how much items in total are in certain stations and only pick up those with X amount and let the rest for when the pile is big enough.Matter of not having much time and diversifying a lot so i do not have to update my order X times a day. So both the contracting as working with the volume search will not help me unfort in this.Guess i'll just have to get used to spending a night on delivering it to my freighter char once every 2 or 3 weeks
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.12 20:33:00 - [50] Afternoon all. First off, thanks for all the information and this thread. People like yourselves make me believe that some goodness exists in the human race after all ;) I'm a VERY new player that has caught the trader bug - in fact it really was why I got into this game. Unfortunately, you need money to make money, so I've been - out of necessity - missioning to create a capital base - but have recently discovered an opportunity as a market fencer for some of the manufacturers in my corp that don't want to try and play the market. I've been reading here and there and a lot of people talk about market manipulation. I have a vague sense of what they mean, but I didn't want to assume anything and was wondering what that meant in more concrete terms. Thanks everyone.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.12 20:45:00 - [51] Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar I have a vague sense of what they mean, but I didn't want to assume anything and was wondering what that meant in more concrete terms. Thanks everyone. Manipulation is the effort you exert using your inventory and orders in an attempt to move prices one way or the other for your benefit, whether that be profit or lowered cost for building. There are many ways to actually manipulate (see my post regarding trit some time back... thanks everyone for dumping inventory ) but in the end its about using various skills as a trader to move prices in your favor.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.12 20:57:00 - [52] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Manipulation is the effort you exert using your inventory and orders in an attempt to move prices one way or the other for your benefit, whether that be profit or lowered cost for building. There are many ways to actually manipulate (see my post regarding trit some time back... thanks everyone for dumping inventory ) but in the end its about using various skills as a trader to move prices in your favor. So as a concrete example - if I want to lower the prices of trit - I would stockpile trit over a long period of time and start flooding the market with trit to affect the overall market price of trit? (or start major mining operations to convert roids into trit on the market?) Or if I want to increase prices, to use margin traded buy orders to set up inflated buy orders so that people will sell me at high prices. If there are enough of these, then you might be able to fool the rest of the community that this is what the prices should be, and watch it climb? Or (simply) buy all the sell orders and repost at higher prices?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.12 21:02:00 - [53] Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar So as a concrete example - if I want to lower the prices of trit - I would stockpile trit over a long period of time and start flooding the market with trit to affect the overall market price of trit? (or start major mining operations to convert roids into trit on the market?) Or if I want to increase prices, to use margin traded buy orders to set up inflated buy orders so that people will sell me at high prices. If there are enough of these, then you might be able to fool the rest of the community that this is what the prices should be, and watch it climb? Or (simply) buy all the sell orders and repost at higher prices? More or less, yes its that simple.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.12 21:14:00 - [54] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 12/12/2008 21:15:17 Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar . I've been reading here and there and a lot of people talk about market manipulation. I have a vague sense of what they mean, but I didn't want to assume anything and was wondering what that meant in more concrete terms. Market manipulation is a collective term for a variety of methods for changing the market expectations or perception of some group of players. These players can be globally, in a region, or even a single station. You may be attempting to manipulate a single good or a whole industrial sector. For example, buy up all of a good in a region and list it at a higher price. A naive or lazy buyer who doesn't check the history or prices outside the region, might end up buying your product at the higher price. Their perception is that whatever the price is on the market is good enough. Enough of these people and you've made isk. The dysprosium and promethium producers have some pricing power. By withholding supply, they can increase the price somewhat. It's not market manipulation in my sense above, but it does change other traders' perceptions. If you know the timing of the pulses of supply, you can profit from the resulting instability. Akita T gave an example using the new alchemy reactions. Because the production chain for alchemy is so long, deep pocketed manipulators can start and crash the alchemy market. Every time the price of complex reaction products like ferrogel (the favorite) goes up, alchemy chains start up. Then the chains are halted when the ferrogel drops. This is the buy phase for the market manipulator since ferrogel from the alchemy chains are likely to be dumped on the market. Moving on, the revelation of the t2 POS reactions exploit is another market manipulation. Note that most of the people who created such threads (saturating the Eve forums, I might add) emphasize the urgency of doing something now. These are (pretty successful) attempts to change global expectations. Namely, as a result we expect higher market prices for dyspro, prom and the reaction product thereof. Further, it sounds like people are having good success convincing other products to increase even though the relation with the exploit isn't obvious (eg, hexite market). A final example is the discussion thread discussing a particular good that the player wants to steer. This is effective, if there is some obvious market opportunity. A common approach is to claim puzzlement at some market behavior, say the low price of zydrine. You'd then ask "Golly, why has zydrine gone so low?" Alternately, one could aggressively use very smug reverse psychology (eg, "zydrine is going to drop a few hundred more. Any fool can see that!") and bask in profitable humility as MD gleefully corrects your forum-based folly. You can casually mention that zydrine spin while in some other discussion. Sometimes subtle works sometimes something more blunt works. Now there is the other side of the coin. Namely, how to spot market manipulation attempts. This is a highly profitable skill. I personally applaud every time someone boasts about their successful manipulation because it means more people will try. Busting market manipulation can be more profitable than the market manipulation would be. A market manipulator always has to worry about this.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.12 21:36:00 - [55] Originally by: Tasko Pal Now there is the other side of the coin. Namely, how to spot market manipulation attempts. This is a highly profitable skill. I personally applaud every time someone boasts about their successful manipulation because it means more people will try. Busting market manipulation can be more profitable than the market manipulation would be. A market manipulator always has to worry about this. Curious as to what you mean by "busting" market manipulation? Do you mean blowing the whistle on it here in MD or using it to make money off of someone else's manipulation?
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.13 00:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar Originally by: Tasko Pal Now there is the other side of the coin. Namely, how to spot market manipulation attempts. This is a highly profitable skill. I personally applaud every time someone boasts about their successful manipulation because it means more people will try. Busting market manipulation can be more profitable than the market manipulation would be. A market manipulator always has to worry about this. Curious as to what you mean by "busting" market manipulation? Do you mean blowing the whistle on it here in MD or using it to make money off of someone else's manipulation? You have the order reversed. First, make money off of someone's manipulation then blow the whistle to seal the deal. More seriously, as mentioned above some forms of market manipulation involve pushing the market (via buying or selling large quantities) away from its long term stable point. Generally other people sooner or later will catch on. If someone catches on before you close with a profit and can react fast enough, then they can steal your thunder. Eg, suppose you scheme to buy out all the widget IIs, a reasonable volume good in empire. But someone is sitting on a months supply (through empire) of widget II's and dumps them right as you push up to the final price. You're probably going to get burned badly. OTOH, if nobody has any in stock and it takes a week to make more widget IIs, then you probably can sell off the widget IIs you bought (and perhaps a pile you saved up ahead of time) before new production can drive the price back down.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.14 01:23:00 - [57] Thanks a bunch to all of you who have taken the time to answer questions. To anyone holding back, please feel free to ask your questions here, its a safe place. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.14 02:08:00 - [58] When placing buy orders to either a) melt down or b) resell, how do you know when it's worth it to take your industrial out to the various areas that buy orders may have been fulfilled to centralize everything and then a) melt them down or b) resell them? Do you just keep tabs on your orders and make a calculated guess as to how much of it is amassing in particular areas? Also, is buying raw materials for relatively cheaper prices far away from major hubs and then transporting them to the hubs a profitable way to trade? How about taking implants and skill books and then moving them to minor hubs such as Torrinos or Agil to supply those that are coming out of or headed into low sec?
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.14 02:11:00 - [59] Also, here's something that I found a while back on these forums and I was wondering if y'all could critique/comment on the tactics that this person pulled together? (Sorry, don't remember who it was.) 1) Recycler. Putting up region-wide buy orders for cheap loot either to re-sell, ship to Jita or reprocess into minerals. You'll get cheap goods slowly trickling into your hangars, but if you have a limited number of orders (my max is around 40 atm) I don't think it's worth it. I get the impression that this is only done if you have spare orders and isk lying around. Could be wrong, tho... Pros: nice margins. Cons: Slow? Need alot of orders, every buy order could potentially have been a sell order generating a greater profit. 2) Major hub retailer. Buy cheap stuff from Jita, haul to a major regional hub like Dodixie (or vice versa) and engage in 0.01 isk wars. To me this seems to be the most "easiest" way to trade as it doesn't require much thought or planning, only an ability to check and update your orders every so often until sold out. Pros: you don't need to use so many orders as you're only trading from one station. Cons: requires constant attention, up against possible bots? 3) Minor hub retailer. Here you're banking on convenience and the belief that players would pay a premium to equip their ship NOW rather than waste time jumping to a regional trade hub. Requires more planning and analysis which I personally find fun. If you choose to service an armpit region, it is also possible to establish a region-wide monopoly and realise enormous margins exceeding 200% (my best result so far). To see the same volume of sales as a major hub, you might have to diversify the goods you sell and trade in more than one station, meaning you'll consume more orders and time hauling stuff. Pros: less competition, greater margins. Cons: slower sales, greater need for orders. 4) NPC goods trader. I tried this for a week, manually browsing the market for cheap npc goods and using contracts to set up a regional logistic network and then selling remotely. An unfriendly UI made this form of trading unworthwhile, and I get the impression that you'll need a freighter to make the same millions that you get selling to players. Pros: ignored by most traders. Cons: tedious. 5) Speculator / manipulator. Never done this, but I heard it can be very profitable (and risky). Try to force a price change that you can profit from by either speculating with BS and rumors or buying out goods and reselling at a higher price. I assume this works best with goods that take a long to time to bring to market. Pros: $$$ for little effort. Cons: very risky. 6) Arbitrage. Use a service like eve central to identify buy and sell orders in different regions that'll generate a profit. Virtually the same as hauling NPC goods, except the sellers/buyers aren't static. I tried this early in my eve career. It's a decent method to generate isk when you're poor and just bought your first Iteron. Pros: braindead easy. Cons: Time-consuming, little to moderate profits, one-off opportunities. 7) Boutique retailer. Rather than trade on the market with mass-produced goods, you can specialise in "boutique" items like BPOs and rare items/ships via the contract system. I like to think of this trader as the "art collector" who ships exquisite items from one wealthy patrician to another. But I'm not really familiar with this strategy (too poor to experiment).
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.14 03:20:00 - [60] Dakt your list of different trading styles is pretty much right, some would disagree a bit on some of the specifics one way or the other, but as a general overview what you posted above is correct. Also realise too, that some players merge some of those together into a hybrid of sorts. Minor Hub + Recylcer in a mission running hub, for example. -- Chribba's LoveQuest 17:00hrs Dec. 20th (Prizes!!)
Cheopis Amarr One Stop Mining Shop One Stop Research	Posted - 2008.12.14 03:29:00 - [61] Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Manipulation is the effort you exert using your inventory and orders in an attempt to move prices one way or the other for your benefit, whether that be profit or lowered cost for building. There are many ways to actually manipulate (see my post regarding trit some time back... thanks everyone for dumping inventory ) but in the end its about using various skills as a trader to move prices in your favor. So as a concrete example - if I want to lower the prices of trit - I would stockpile trit over a long period of time and start flooding the market with trit to affect the overall market price of trit? (or start major mining operations to convert roids into trit on the market?) Or if I want to increase prices, to use margin traded buy orders to set up inflated buy orders so that people will sell me at high prices. If there are enough of these, then you might be able to fool the rest of the community that this is what the prices should be, and watch it climb? Or (simply) buy all the sell orders and repost at higher prices? You have described here the basic ingame economic methods of market manipulation, however there are also psychological methods as well. You can use this forum and a couple others (depending on what you are trying to manipulate) to convince people to buy or sell commodities.
Svetlana Kyresh	Posted - 2008.12.14 03:46:00 - [62] If I am warping in a transport ship fitted with a Covert Ops cloaking device, and an interdictor pulls me out of warp, will I remained cloaked or get de-cloaked (assuming nothing is within 2km of me)?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.14 04:16:00 - [63] Originally by: Svetlana Kyresh If I am warping in a transport ship fitted with a Covert Ops cloaking device, and an interdictor pulls me out of warp, will I remained cloaked or get de-cloaked (assuming nothing is within 2km of me)? You stay cloaked, allowing you easy time enough to get out of the bubble, warp to a safe spot or another gate and wait for the camp to move.
Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.12.15 19:37:00 - [64] Edited by: Enihcam Xes on 15/12/2008 19:37:24 This thread needs a bump, but a sticky would be better.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.16 04:13:00 - [65] Originally by: Enihcam Xes Edited by: Enihcam Xes on 15/12/2008 19:37:24 This thread needs a bump, but a sticky would be better. I think a sticky might be a bad idea as I think this thread works in ways the stickies don't. But the bump is appreciated. Bring on your questions. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.16 16:04:00 - [66] Edited by: Snasty on 16/12/2008 16:07:12 Quick one... 1st - Does the Contracts Manager Role in corp management also give by default access to the deliveries in all stations..? 2nd - Where is the best place to ask corp management related questions, it isnt CAOD thats for sure...!! Thanks in advance for your wisdom... --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
amarrcommander	Posted - 2008.12.16 16:16:00 - [67] Why is CCP a bunch of idiots and moved Hexxx Retirement thread to Out Of Pod but at same time didnt look at the persons post that reported him to notice that it was out of line and nuke that as well?
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.16 16:26:00 - [68] Originally by: amarrcommander Why is CCP a bunch of idiots and moved Hexxx Retirement thread to Out Of Pod but at same time didnt look at the persons post that reported him to notice that it was out of line and nuke that as well? While I dislike Taikun as much as most of us do, he was right. These retirement threads by definition dont belong here in MD. While it would be nice that they stay in MD, they are not a "legit" MD thread by CCP's forum organizational overview. The words Taikun chose were indeed tasteless, and yet some of us use similar stuff to berate nubbins who post foolish threads here in MD. It is just that some of us see Hexxx as a bit of a hero that we feel it was uncalled for. -- Chribba's LoveQuest 17:00hrs Dec. 20th (Prizes!!)
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.16 17:57:00 - [69] Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/12/2008 18:02:42 Question from a person that knows very little about markets. I've noticed something odd every once in a while when buying things (usually in Jita). I will buy a few units out of a larger order, but the number available from that order does not go down. Or I will buy all units in a sell order and the order will not disappear. Out of curiosity I tried buying the same single unit sell order out and it let me do it again and again. What's the deal? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:04:00 - [70] Originally by: Snasty Edited by: Snasty on 16/12/2008 16:07:12 Quick one... 1st - Does the Contracts Manager Role in corp management also give by default access to the deliveries in all stations..? 2nd - Where is the best place to ask corp management related questions, it isnt CAOD thats for sure...!! Thanks in advance for your wisdom... 1. Yes, but it does not give them access to the corp mgt assets window so they can actually see whats in deliveries. Its a big annoyance, since you need director level access for that. 2. Science and Industry usually however we field plenty of corp mgt related questions here as well.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:08:00 - [71] Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 16/12/2008 18:02:42 Question from a person that knows very little about markets. I've noticed something odd every once in a while when buying things (usually in Jita). I will buy a few units out of a larger order, but the number available from that order does not go down. Or I will buy all units in a sell order and the order will not disappear. Out of curiosity I tried buying the same single unit sell order out and it let me do it again and again. What's the deal? it is a broker system.... while you may select any order you want, all your doing is selecting the price you pay, the goods will always come from the lowest priced order listed. -- Chribba's LoveQuest 17:00hrs Dec. 20th (Prizes!!)
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Snasty Edited by: Snasty on 16/12/2008 16:07:12 Quick one... 1st - Does the Contracts Manager Role in corp management also give by default access to the deliveries in all stations..? 2nd - Where is the best place to ask corp management related questions, it isnt CAOD thats for sure...!! Thanks in advance for your wisdom... 1. Yes, but it does not give them access to the corp mgt assets window so they can actually see whats in deliveries. Its a big annoyance, since you need director level access for that. 2. Science and Industry usually however we field plenty of corp mgt related questions here as well. Thanks for the reply. Can I pick your brain a tad more. I can see the annoyance from your point of view, people can collect from deliveries but they may not know where they are, right? But, in my situation I want to be able to give one member some production roles that will involve a bit of trading, factory management and contracts roles, so, he will be able to collect his contracts, buy orders and production jobs but the corp is "sort of" protected from him also taking everything else unless he visits stations looking for populated deliveries hangers. Correct? --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
Letifer Deus A Astroid Belt Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:18:00 - [73] Originally by: Treelox it is a broker system.... facepalms Doi. Thanks ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!"
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:29:00 - [74] Originally by: Snasty Thanks for the reply. Can I pick your brain a tad more. I can see the annoyance from your point of view, people can collect from deliveries but they may not know where they are, right? But, in my situation I want to be able to give one member some production roles that will involve a bit of trading, factory management and contracts roles, so, he will be able to collect his contracts, buy orders and production jobs but the corp is "sort of" protected from him also taking everything else unless he visits stations looking for populated deliveries hangers. Correct? They will be forced to fly to each station on the assumption or previous knowledge from their journal/transaction/contract history that something is there for them in the deliveries window. You can as a CEO or director, drop these items into their hanger for pickup as well so that they can see them from their asset window though. This is the way we handle it, taking 20 minutes each week and sorting through the corp assets window and dropping into hanger the items where they are needed. As such, part of the requirements in our trade order system is limiting the orders to individual stations. This helps minimize the amount of sorting required. But no, the only way they can know where an item is, like they might be used to through their own asset window, is to have director access. Which sorta negates your security on any hangers.
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.16 18:40:00 - [75] Kazzac Elentria, your assistance is appreciated, cheers. Fly groovy.. --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
Ares91	Posted - 2008.12.16 22:58:00 - [76] Edited by: Ares91 on 16/12/2008 22:58:30 I was curious as to how people deal with changing orders in different regions all over EVE, do you have an alt in most regions and what skills do you train on this alt or alts? Or do you just fly about all over EVE changing orders?
DragonRiderTao	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:38:00 - [77] Assess your short days. Design an aspiration. Savor wild pasture. How many dragons can you slay? You cant slay mine.
Ivar Strahm	Posted - 2008.12.16 23:47:00 - [78] Originally by: Ares91 Edited by: Ares91 on 16/12/2008 22:58:30 I was curious as to how people deal with changing orders in different regions all over EVE, do you have an alt in most regions and what skills do you train on this alt or alts? Or do you just fly about all over EVE changing orders? When I had orders across two regions, I placed the orders in border systems so the number of jumps between them were minimal, then hopped back and forth a few times per day in a shuttle. Clearly not the most efficient, and only viable with a small number of adjacent regions, but by trading in the same items, and having those items in my Quick Bar, it took surprisingly little time. Mind you, though, I really can't recommend this approach.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.12.17 06:58:00 - [79] Originally by: Ares91 Edited by: Ares91 on 16/12/2008 22:58:30 I was curious as to how people deal with changing orders in different regions all over EVE, do you have an alt in most regions and what skills do you train on this alt or alts? Or do you just fly about all over EVE changing orders? I have a trade alt who hangs out in Jita doing the station shuffle, but he occasionaly flies around in a souped up executor (little faster than a shuttle and it has much better cap). Tasko carebears the empires in an inty, buying and selling where his whims take him.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.17 17:22:00 - [80] Hey all. So I took my first dabble in trying to move some things and failed miserably. Not so much in the sense that I lost money, but I definitely didn't make much either. The difficulty I'm having is trying to figure out whether you buy goods for cheap in Jita or Amarr and then move them out to outposts or low sec and sell them for higher - OR if you find cheap goods in these outliers and then bring them back into Jita or Amarr where the buy orders are high and then sell that way. And in the case of the former, how do you deal with the fact that volumes of trade just aren't very high out in the outliers? Don't get me wrong - I'm not looking for your trade routes or anything - just more information on the nuances of how to research the market.
Diedra Kellin Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.17 18:18:00 - [81] Dakt, As you said, this was your first time. Keep at it. The key to low-volume sales is to diversify. Don't buy huge batches of something to put up for sale in outliers that then take forever to sell. Instead, find several smaller deals and move them. You want to get your investment ISKage, and hopefuly profit, back quick enough to then support future buys.
F Bronstein University of Caille	Posted - 2008.12.17 21:34:00 - [82] Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar The difficulty I'm having is trying to figure out whether you buy goods for cheap in Jita or Amarr and then move them out to outposts or low sec and sell them for higher - OR if you find cheap goods in these outliers and then bring them back into Jita or Amarr where the buy orders are high and then sell that way. stating the obvious, but there is no OR - you'll want to do both, of course. Take one cargo of goods from a hub to the outposts/local trade hubs and return with another full cargo back to the trading hub. The outliers have certain advantages because of the low trade volume; you can set up 'small' buy orders over a wide spectrum of items and make your trip everytime the total amount bought equals one full cargohold - you won't be as dependent on single items (so you won't have to worry as much about being undercut in one item whilst operating in another region). Always keep in mind to maximize your ISK/m^3.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.18 16:21:00 - [83] Roger. We'll take this into account. May just have found a nice little route that could work out well with the advice given. Thanks y'all :D
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.18 16:38:00 - [84] Edited by: Midas Man on 18/12/2008 16:39:45 Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar Roger. We'll take this into account. May just have found a nice little route that could work out well with the advice given. Thanks y'all :D Further to this, when I started out, most of my profit came from trading missile launchers in lvl 4 hubs around caldari space. I would station trade in the hubs, buying eg Advanced 'Limos' Heavy launchers, I could buy them at 500k in the hubs and sell in same station for 1.5-2mil. I would find that I would gather 2-3times the volume I was able to sell so every so often I would haul my over supply to Jita and dump it there, would still get ~ 1mil per unit. While in Jita I would stock up on Tech2 mods I knew would sell in the hubs but are much cheap in Jita due to heavy competition. Once you have a nice pile of Isk and stock you can use it to force the markets in your direction so for a few days before stocking the lvl 4 hubs with tech 2 I would station trade in Jita for limited to no profit just to crash the market to make my purchases cheaper. These Items are not as lucrative anymore but the principal is the same.
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.18 18:00:00 - [85] A question regarding corp container access & roles: - Role gives access to query & take from a hanger. Container access it not given, to prevent removal of a whole container. Items are in a station container and locked. When the attempt to unlock an item is made the error states that the player does not have the equipment config role. Providing that role allows unlocking but is that how it works? Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger? Assistance appreciated... I did try to ask this question in Science forum btw, but after 41 views they dont seem to know. A corp specific section is really needed I think, especially when you take into account how bad (or abesnt) the documentation is. --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.18 18:25:00 - [86] Originally by: Snasty When the attempt to unlock an item is made the error states that the player does not have the equipment config role. Providing that role allows unlocking but is that how it works? Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger? Yes, there is a work around but I cannot for the life of me remember it at the moment. I take this is related to your structuring of your builder roles within two different stations, or hangers?
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.18 18:56:00 - [87] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria I take this is related to your structuring of your builder roles within two different stations, or hangers? No, not really. Just what I saw as simple hanger access and use of station containers providing an audit as to who took what. Providing the config role isnt the end of the world now, but it would be once the corp launched a POS for example. Forcing me to give everyone a config equipment role just to allow them to take things from hangers simply doesnt seem correct to me. The "take" function/role should be enough. I have to be doing something wrong. Anyway, if the answer presents itself to you in your sleep think of me in the morning wont you, cheers... --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.19 02:12:00 - [88] Originally by: Midas Man Further to this, when I started out, most of my profit came from trading missile launchers in lvl 4 hubs around caldari space. These Items are not as lucrative anymore but the principal is the same. Thanks so much for the tip! I'll try this in Amarr space and see if it works out... I know of some mission hubs in the Domain region. Originally by: Snasty No, not really. Just what I saw as simple hanger access and use of station containers providing an audit as to who took what. Providing the config role isnt the end of the world now, but it would be once the corp launched a POS for example. Forcing me to give everyone a config equipment role just to allow them to take things from hangers simply doesnt seem correct to me. The "take" function/role should be enough. I have to be doing something wrong. Our corp currently utilizes a shared hanger system. We can take things, out, but we can't modify anything, and if we try to put anything in, it auto locks until a person with equipment config role unlocks it. I don't know how it's set up though. I'll ask my CEO the next time he's on (or have him drop by here and answer your question.)
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.12.19 05:11:00 - [89] Originally by: Snasty Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger? Yes. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Toldos Leafkicker Tenichigo Kaigun Spectrum Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.19 05:46:00 - [90] Originally by: Dakt NiRuthgar Originally by: Midas Man Further to this, when I started out, most of my profit came from trading missile launchers in lvl 4 hubs around caldari space. These Items are not as lucrative anymore but the principal is the same. Thanks so much for the tip! I'll try this in Amarr space and see if it works out... I know of some mission hubs in the Domain region. Watch out for those Amarr traders, they move in quickly. Someone tore apart my control on an item in less than a week (three cheers for the Orca patch). I do get great profit margins from supplying "luxury goods" to smaller markets, but I suppose I'm missing something, since I rarely make all that much in the long run. The passive income is nice, though. -- <3
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.19 06:11:00 - [91] Originally by: Toldos Leafkicker Watch out for those Amarr traders, they move in quickly. Someone tore apart my control on an item in less than a week (three cheers for the Orca patch). I do get great profit margins from supplying "luxury goods" to smaller markets, but I suppose I'm missing something, since I rarely make all that much in the long run. The passive income is nice, though. What do you mean by "luxury goods"?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.19 13:23:00 - [92] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Snasty Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger? Yes. And just to drive it home, I toyed around with some of the builder roles we have setup and there really is no work around. You'll have to separate things between your regular hangers and high sec hang.
Galimbu	Posted - 2008.12.19 15:48:00 - [93] Kind of a weird question but as a new hauler/trader I keep seeing this: Why are courier contracts created with a collateral that is far, far, far more than the worth of the goods being moved?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.19 16:10:00 - [94] Originally by: Galimbu Kind of a weird question but as a new hauler/trader I keep seeing this: Why are courier contracts created with a collateral that is far, far, far more than the worth of the goods being moved? To make sure you don't steal the stuff
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2008.12.19 16:14:00 - [95] Originally by: Galimbu Kind of a weird question but as a new hauler/trader I keep seeing this: Why are courier contracts created with a collateral that is far, far, far more than the worth of the goods being moved? There is differences to valuations too, Person A might value Trit at 3 Isk per unit because that is what they could get now on buy order. A person manufacturing from that trit might make an equivalent og 4.5 isk per unit including profit from good produced, their production stops without said minerals so they dont want to lose them and if the courier get ganked on route they would still want their 4.5 per unit.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.20 06:04:00 - [96] Nice work in here so far, bring on your questions. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.12.20 12:07:00 - [97] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Snasty Does a player need that role to just unlock an item in a container in a hanger? Yes. And just to drive it home, I toyed around with some of the builder roles we have setup and there really is no work around. You'll have to separate things between your regular hangers and high sec hang. OK, so be it then I guess. Thanks for looking at this for me though, appreciated as always.. --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
Mohram Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.20 13:13:00 - [98] So when people buy up all of one resource in a region and make new sell orders for more money, are they banking that no one has surplus stock they can dump onto the market?
Mohram Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.20 13:16:00 - [99] Oh, and at what point can this become stickied? It's been 3 weeks and it's only dropped off the front page a couple times. But I guess if that's the case it doesn't need a sticky. Nevermind, carry on.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.20 20:51:00 - [100] Originally by: Mohram So when people buy up all of one resource in a region and make new sell orders for more money, are they banking that no one has surplus stock they can dump onto the market? Yes, generally speaking when doing so you'll assume for a period of whatever the build time is that people will be working off limited inventory and or time in importing goods. This works well in regions where the main hubs are technically outliers from other major hubs. Dod to Ours to Jita for instance. So I'll buy every single Ishtar on the market and resell at a 15% mark up knowing that I have at least 3 days before anyone can make a significant impact on the inventory there.
Macita DePuerco	Posted - 2008.12.20 20:58:00 - [101] Now I'm not new to the game but have never devled into the courier part of the game nor do I know of any one else that has either. I understand the potential dangers when accepting a contract to courier a parcel from player owned station to player owned station. However, when that is not the case and both points are npc owned stations If player A issues a contract say for 500,000.00, with 20mill as collateral, is it possible for player A to have a pirate alt, that simply ambushes your frieghter prior to reaching your destination even if at the risk of sucide from local authorities and player A collects the collateral. If this scenario is possible or common, and since the game is also an attempted at real life (so to speak) is their any insurance that the courier can take out such as cargo insurance that only applies when taking a contract. Or may be there is some aspect of the courier contract that I am missing when I look at these contracts I note that package contents are not described I have also seen what apears as suspicious contract where its npc station to station but the contents weight is 30m3 and pay 200k isk but cary a ***ping 65mill colateral and only 5 jumps apart and all in high sec .7 and above. I ask all this because I am tyrully interested in this field but their realy is little that apears from site search regarding this "Courier, courier scams, etc etc" I thank you for your respponce and help. Collos
Diedra Kellin Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.12.22 18:41:00 - [102] 1- Yes - anything is possible, but really the odds are reduced, especially if you are smart and do some research into the issuer. Once you've been doing this for a while, you'll get to know the big logistics companies and their contracting schedule/routes. 2 - No - there is no insurance. The bigger threat, from the big-picture aspect of EvE, is actually you, the hauler stealing, hence the crazy high collateral. 3 - Not that unusual. Sometimes the items may be BPOs or something else small but very valuable. Fly safe. DiDi
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.23 22:05:00 - [103] I have gathered from research I've been doing on this forum that Nonni is a trade hub of the Lonetrek region, but as of late have seen little activity in high volume goods that trade in the MAJOR trade hubs at this particular location. Do the location of outlier trade hubs shift often? Also - what sort of methods do people use to keep an eye on trends between multiple regions? i fear the answer is multi-client alts....... a non-option for myself unfortunately =( Also, I'm having a hard time figuring out how low is too low with respect to volume of transactions on a particular good. For example, if I see that Hammerhead's sell at a volume of 150 in Lontrek, but then compare that with a bunch of other goods and realize that in fact 150 is much higher than most other drone types, would I then possibly consider it as a good item to move if there is a profit in it? Or is 150 transactions per day too low volume to really get any sort of good deal? Also, since my capital is low, should I gauge success of a trade moves based on percentage gains or on absolute value gains?
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2008.12.24 18:26:00 - [104] Could I encourage someone to answer the above question(s) please? Thanks! Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.25 05:12:00 - [105] I'll shoot, it'll be quick and dirty though, Someone else can expound on it. Yes at times the outlier trade locations will shift on you, generally speaking what you'll see is an ebb and flow from lvl 1 mission running locations to lvl 4 mission running locations. I think in Lonetrek.. if my memory serves me right, you'll want to track down the lvl 2 through 4 agents for both Navy and RSS. At times you'll also see a shift as people move operations between entry points, as not all low sec entry points are single choke holds. There are multi entry points into Venal if Im remembering correctly, so you'll see increase and decrease in trade accordingly as people shift between locations. A third one to track are RnD, lesser attention is paid but the research remains the same. As datacore prices shift, people will grind out missions for the respective corps that offering the highest rewards for each science area. You'll want to get on the eve agent search and narrow it down for your region. For instance I think in Lonetrek, Nonni benefits from having both a mid level RnD corp, low sec entry point, and a decent quality lvl 4 agent (someone will correct me if Im wrong) When it comes to volume it really does depend on how willing you are to sit on stock. A good indicator of how long you'll want to sit on any given item is to take a look at its build speed. How long would it take for you to build an item of the same? In my honest opinion you don't want to hold onto anything that much longer, but at the same time if you can have a constant turn over, without excess inventory build up there is nothing wrong with a low margin. The reason I mention build time, is all to often its easy for a new trader to get caught up in the margin, or the apparent volume just to have a budding industrialist flood the market with product and leave you sitting high and dry on a stack of inventory that'll take you weeks or months to sell. When your capital is low, focus on margin and margin alone. Personally I would look at high level meta market. Maximize your returns and you can worry about volume/movement once your capital grows. You'll get to a point where you can care little about 800m sitting in escrow for a single item. But right now having 10m tied up in escrow with a 20m wallet is pretty significant. Get your wealth moving with maximum return possible.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.25 05:40:00 - [106] Aye. Thanks for the response. Doing some more experiments, and the most recent one that i tried seems to be working reasonably well - thanks to some of those links in the stickies... don't know how I missed that one >_<
Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force PuPPet MasTers	Posted - 2008.12.25 11:34:00 - [107] Why do traders put up 50 items at X, then just 1 or 2 items of the SAME thing at X minus 1isk? How can they afford to tie up and micro manage all their trade slots that way?
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.12.25 15:32:00 - [108] You can look at it 2 ways - Scare tactic (I have waaaaay more market slots than you dont mess with me) or an ease of only managing 1 price while other stock is still up on the market so just in case while you are away, it still sells while the adjusted price sells quickly, the other stock is still available once the .01 isk game product sells. Also to the untrained it makes it appear there are more sellers and there by a new trader will think to look elsewhere for a more opportune station to sell from.
Joseph Shephard	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:19:00 - [109] Valory, I break my orders like that for several reason, some of which have already been mentioned by Athre. There are three main reasons for me: 1) If I price my entire stock to beat your price, you might decide you are impatient and you will price your entire order to beat me. So, instead of trying to sell 1000 afterburners cheaper than you, I might only sell... 17 and hope that you are patient enough to let me sell those. Then, after I do sell them, I will price another 17 below you. It's just playing on people's sense of time. 2) If I have multiple orders, I can update my prices more frequently than every 5 minutes. Hence, in high volume markets in Jita, I might have 4 sell orders of one product. That way, no matter how diligently you change your prices, I have at least one order that I can price to beat you. That way, you generally get demoralized and decide that you would rather go to bed or run a mission rather than try to compete with me directly. 3) Lastly, its not too uncommon for someone to buy an extrordinarly large number of some item. So, maybe I want to sell 17 afterburners quickly because I want to have some cash on hand to make trades or buy minerals for manufacturing, but I want to leave the majority of my stock prices higher in case someone decides they need 3000 afterburners. I usually sell a couple dozen of my modules per day at a competitive price, and then about once per week someone comes and buys my entire stock (for god only knows what reason). Hope some of that helps in addition to what Athre was able to say. Best, J. Shepard
Joseph Shephard	Posted - 2008.12.25 16:21:00 - [110] And no, I definitely do not trade or manufacture afterburners. They scare me. Too much fire.
Dakt NiRuthgar	Posted - 2008.12.26 22:37:00 - [111] Originally by: Joseph Shephard Valory, I break my orders like that for several reason, some of which have already been mentioned by Athre. There are three main reasons for me: 1) If I price my entire stock to beat your price, you might decide you are impatient and you will price your entire order to beat me. So, instead of trying to sell 1000 afterburners cheaper than you, I might only sell... 17 and hope that you are patient enough to let me sell those. Then, after I do sell them, I will price another 17 below you. It's just playing on people's sense of time. 2) If I have multiple orders, I can update my prices more frequently than every 5 minutes. Hence, in high volume markets in Jita, I might have 4 sell orders of one product. That way, no matter how diligently you change your prices, I have at least one order that I can price to beat you. That way, you generally get demoralized and decide that you would rather go to bed or run a mission rather than try to compete with me directly. 3) Lastly, its not too uncommon for someone to buy an extrordinarly large number of some item. So, maybe I want to sell 17 afterburners quickly because I want to have some cash on hand to make trades or buy minerals for manufacturing, but I want to leave the majority of my stock prices higher in case someone decides they need 3000 afterburners. I usually sell a couple dozen of my modules per day at a competitive price, and then about once per week someone comes and buys my entire stock (for god only knows what reason). Hope some of that helps in addition to what Athre was able to say. Best, J. Shepard That was a great tip shepard! Thanks for that one... help me win out on a few buy orders in a 0.01 ISk war I got into last night :D
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.31 01:19:00 - [112] Free bump with a quick question. Looking for some feedback on using my unused alt's to collect market info in Jita or elsewhere. I was considering using one and basing them in Jita that I could log into when I need market info instead of traveling there. But Jita is only 10 jumps away from my base system and takes 15 to 20 minutes to travel one way. I'm curious if anyone else has attempted this and what were the results? Or is this a silly waste of an alt?
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2008.12.31 01:52:00 - [113] You're not using it now, so you're already "wasting" the slot, so why not? if you ever need the space, just reroll it. I "wasted" one to check jita prices & stick up a couple of buy orders, it's useful. I guess watching people lose potential profit and screwing up the market in the process due to sheer stupidity is an occupational hazard, but for newer traders who don't yet have the capital to massage their market areas & don't have the cushion to sit back & wait, it gets easier to deal with, right? :)
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.12.31 03:56:00 - [114] What Von said, eventually you might just get to a point where profits can justify spending the isk on GTC for throw away market slaves.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.12.31 22:58:00 - [115] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria What Von said, eventually you might just get to a point where profits can justify spending the isk on GTC for throw away market slaves. OH? Something I haven't thought of yet. Nice idea. Thanks Von and Kazzac!
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.01.03 18:37:00 - [116] Thanks guys/girls for giving up some of your time to answer questions, much appreciated. Bring on your questions. Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.01.03 19:31:00 - [117] I want to say a special Thanks to all those who have answered my questions and have helped others. This morning I open EVEMon to see about to break 1 BILLION isk's in my wallet for the very first time! (I've had a good week station trading) All because of good tips I have read in here and then put to use. 30 days ago I broke 500 Million and thought what a milestone, but I re-invested it (as I will with this I have currently) to put it back to work. Now I'm about to break that next milestone! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!
morbius665	Posted - 2009.01.03 22:51:00 - [118] Edited by: morbius665 on 03/01/2009 22:51:57 Just curious about buy orders.. If everyone keeps playing the .01 game whats to stop it from getting all the way up to the sell prices?? How come this hasnt happened allready or what keeps it in check? And congrats Lord Z. Hope I can follow suit.
ingenting 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.04 01:01:00 - [119] Originally by: morbius665 Edited by: morbius665 on 03/01/2009 22:51:57 Just curious about buy orders.. If everyone keeps playing the .01 game whats to stop it from getting all the way up to the sell prices?? How come this hasnt happened allready or what keeps it in check? And congrats Lord Z. Hope I can follow suit. Because when it does reach the sell orders, they buy from the sell orders. _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu BAAOOM... Told you, newb."
Cpt Jacqui	Posted - 2009.01.04 18:38:00 - [120] Hey there got a question. Im new to trading and made only a few Orders in the last days. I Made some business in Jita -> Rens but would like to get away from Jita market (0,000001 ISk Stupid-Wars) So i¦ve looked at EvE-Central for some Trading routes but found only "good" routes by Jita -> X. (Good= with my Cargo more then 100k profit per Jump or so) I want routes like this: X <---> X So both ways to get stuff around. But at EVE-Central there was not much like this. Do the most people finds those route by their own or is buisiness in outer Regions basically small? (Outer regions im mean Systems outside of the standart market Hubs like Jita / Rens / Ammer etc. Something like Tash Murkon region or so.) Maybe its good to know that i only have Starting alts for the Market orders and my main with Iteron 3 to move stuff. But Industrial char is on his way thru the Skills with a Freighter on long term plan. (3 month or so). But wanted to make some money to get Industrial things and the Freighter getting started. My starting money is around 200 or 250Mio ISK... + Some ISK in Bonds and shares but not much.
SiJira	Posted - 2009.01.04 19:08:00 - [121] Edited by: SiJira on 04/01/2009 19:08:23 eve central will never be well updated and the less busy a system is the less likely eve central will be accurate for it there are a lot of trades outside of the trade hubs but you will have to find them yourself and that is what keeps them profitable Trashed sig, Shark was here
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.01.04 20:00:00 - [122] Cpt Jacqui - Eve Central question: 1) It is only as good as its last update - always check the time stamp. 2) Realize it is easily manipulated. 3) Realize uploads only happen if someone with the software has done a check on your item. That being said its decent to take a look at, but do not consider it law.
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.01.06 05:10:00 - [123] Oh questions, oh questions, wherefore art thou questions? Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Loaby	Posted - 2009.01.06 12:46:00 - [124] can someone please explain me the donchian channel? i dont get it. start with adam and eve, please
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:23:00 - [125] Originally by: Loaby can someone please explain me the donchian channel? i dont get it. start with adam and eve, please Donchian Channel
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:24:00 - [126] Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Loaby can someone please explain me the donchian channel? i dont get it. start with adam and eve, please Donchian Channel Best explanation really, although you missed a perfect good Adam and Eve joke there Midas
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2009.01.06 13:29:00 - [127] Edited by: Midas Man on 06/01/2009 13:31:46 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Loaby can someone please explain me the donchian channel? i dont get it. start with adam and eve, please Donchian Channel Best explanation really, although you missed a perfect good Adam and Eve joke there Midas Numb brain from work edit lol forgot joke On the Second day God says to Adam, "I have some good news... and some bad news." Adam responds, "Well tell me the good news first." "Alright my son, the good news is I will give you both a brain and a *****... the bad news is I'm only going to give you enough blood to run one at a time."
Loaby	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:09:00 - [128] Originally by: Midas Man edit lol forgot joke On the Second day God says to Adam, "I have some good news... and some bad news." Adam responds, "Well tell me the good news first." "Alright my son, the good news is I will give you both a brain and a *****... the bad news is I'm only going to give you enough blood to run one at a time." thats why i dont understand the donchian channel
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2009.01.06 16:31:00 - [129] Edited by: Midas Man on 06/01/2009 16:33:19 Originally by: Loaby thats why i dont understand the donchian channel joking aside, in basic terms the Donchian channel show the change in price of the item over time. Anything with a wide donchian channel, signals a good opportunity for speculative trading. ie buy when price is near the lower end and sell at the high end. Watching the items for a week or two should allow you to spot when to buy and when to sell. Anything with a narrow donchian channel will be pointless to day trade on, but opportunities can be spotted in regional variance on the item, so look for areas where items are cheaper, that said if the donchian channel is narrow trading then generally opportunities will be small.
engimonger	Posted - 2009.01.06 17:51:00 - [130] Is it fair to say 'Dochian channel' = VIX? Or, if it's not equivalent, is it at least similar?
Aluin Chaput Caldari The Monad Family La Cosa Nostra Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.09 00:24:00 - [131] I am only sort of new, but here I go... by the way, the question is theoretical, mainly my way of reviving a good thread. Would it be possible to, with enough ISK, to take a random highsec system and turn it into a hub?
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.09 01:11:00 - [132] I recall a project that Proton Power and a few others were attempting to undertake such a feat, or something like that. However, my own personal thought is you could have all the inventory of Jita in a random system, but people just wouldn't go there. Jita's success is all about it's location imo.
Aluin Chaput Caldari The Monad Family La Cosa Nostra Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.09 01:19:00 - [133] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs However, my own personal thought is you could have all the inventory of Jita in a random system, but people just wouldn't go there. Jita's success is all about it's location imo. True. It would take some nice market manipulation, either overpriced goods in a highly traveled system of under priced goods in a low traveled system to pull off, but maybe somebody could do it. It would be really interesting to see, who knows, maybe somebody will pull it off.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2009.01.09 09:41:00 - [134] Edited by: Midas Man on 09/01/2009 09:42:07 Originally by: Aluin Chaput True. It would take some nice market manipulation, either overpriced goods in a highly traveled system of under priced goods in a low traveled system to pull off, but maybe somebody could do it. It would be really interesting to see, who knows, maybe somebody will pull it off. IMO the only possible way to pull off a feat like this would be to target rare items. ie taking the majority of the popular deadspace/officer mods and ship etc aswell as building materials for tech2 out of Jita and moving them to your new location. Underpriced goods would be the wrong way to go because you would just open the flood gate for interregion traders to reverse your attempt and take it back to Jita for profit. It would be very expensive and maynot work quickly, you would need to keep moving large volumes of the ggods out of Jita until people start to abandon it for your new hub. The biggest hurdle would be the volume of traders that rely on a system like Jita, and im sure many would invest money to ensure a plot like that didn't work. so i think we are stuck with jita as the "main" hub and few smaller hubs centered around points of interest until CCP decide otherwise.
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.01.10 16:36:00 - [135] Good discussion, good questions. Bring em on!

CCP Mitnal C C P CCP	Posted - 2009.01.11 04:30:00 - [136] Belated glue applied.

Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 05:45:00 - [137] Originally by: CCP Mitnal Belated glue applied. WTF for? I always thought the "New Thread" button perfectly fine for "asking questions". You going to lock all new threads asking a question because they not in here? I loathe stupid stickys almost as much as the hate those that sticky them. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Loaby	Posted - 2009.01.12 07:41:00 - [138] what happens if 2 people are setting up orders at the same price for the same item. who will sell/buy if someone buys/sells from them?
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.01.12 08:47:00 - [139] The one with the oldest order
Forceflow Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.14 03:41:00 - [140] Edited by: Forceflow on 14/01/2009 03:41:12 I'm been doing some searching through the eve-search and couldn't find the info I was looking for. I've been considering starting a small bond to raise capital and get a start in MD. However, on the issue of providing collateral, would shares in ongoing IPOs of an equivalent amount be sufficient or would more tangible Eve assets be required?
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.01.14 15:59:00 - [141] Originally by: Forceflow Edited by: Forceflow on 14/01/2009 04:07:05 Edited by: Forceflow on 14/01/2009 03:41:12 I'm been doing some searching through the eve-search and couldn't find the info I was looking for. I've been considering starting a small bond to raise capital and get a start in MD. However, on the issue of providing collateral, would shares in ongoing IPOs of an equivalent amount be sufficient or would more tangible Eve assets be required? Also, how would it be held? Would it have to be transfered to a trusted 3rd party? In most cases you will gonna need an audit done , the one doing this person in a lot of cases also is the one who keeps the colleteral in safety. Regarding if shares would be good enough i am not sure since some IPO's could still turn out to be a faillure in the end in wich case your collateral immediatly falls away. Question firstly is if it wouldn't be wiser for yourself to sell those shares for a little profit of what you bought them or the buying price itself.It would be odd if the percentage of profit you gain from your own business will be lower then these shares bring you on a monthly base and in this way you also will not have to deal with handing over X percentage to investors on money you worked hard for yourself. Sure having shares of others are a nice income but they are a passive income and if you don't have the capital to both run your own active income from your business and on a side have a passive income from shares i'd certainly throw those out first.
Loaby	Posted - 2009.01.14 16:33:00 - [142] what does IPO stand for?
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.01.14 16:36:00 - [143] Originally by: Loaby what does IPO stand for? Initial Public Offering Basically you have a great industrial idea to work out but don't have isk.You try and get shareholders who hand you the isk and in replacement give them a percentage of the profits for it.Check the forums here , the 1st page is filled with them.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.01.15 04:09:00 - [144] Didn't warrent its own thread but how do you calculate the average price if you have something like this below Sold 500,000 units @ 115.01 Sold 125,410 units @ 152.00 Sold 1640 units @ 114.00 I know getting the average of 3 prices wouldn't work since I sold more units at lower price than higher price. Yes, its now public that I'm no accountant ok? 10% for Returning Customers
Forceflow Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.15 04:15:00 - [145] Originally by: Brock Nelson Didn't warrent its own thread but how do you calculate the average price if you have something like this below Sold 500,000 units @ 115.01 Sold 125,410 units @ 152.00 Sold 1640 units @ 114.00 I know getting the average of 3 prices wouldn't work since I sold more units at lower price than higher price. Yes, its now public that I'm no accountant ok? It would be your total money recieved divided by the total volume sold. Quick Cal: Final avg price = 122.41 (rounded to 0.01) for your 627050 units.
Loaby	Posted - 2009.01.15 07:05:00 - [146] yeah, its: sold x1 @ y1 sold x2 @ y2 sold x3 @ y3 average price = ((x1 x y1) + (x2 x y2) + (x3 x y3)) / (x1 + x2 + x3)
MailDeadDrop Globaltech Industries	Posted - 2009.01.16 19:17:00 - [147] BTW, just for completeness, that formula (above) is called a "weighted average". A "simple average" would be the "(y1 + y2 + y3) / 3" formula. MDD
Loaby	Posted - 2009.01.17 17:26:00 - [148] sometimes it happens that i place i sell order at lowest price of all sell orders and then someone buys something from me but the sell-price shown in the wallet is the price of the seller above me. why?
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.01.17 23:34:00 - [149] Another quickie question, at what point does negative faction standings interfere with travel for trading? Today while running a few missions I noticed I was at a -2.3 or -2.5 with Minitar Faction. I remember reading a few weeks ago that as a trader I need avoid any negative faction standings if possible. Is it time I start running some Mini's missions?
Johnny Rockefeller Builders League United	Posted - 2009.01.18 06:17:00 - [150] Originally by: Loaby sometimes it happens that i place i sell order at lowest price of all sell orders and then someone buys something from me but the sell-price shown in the wallet is the price of the seller above me. why? Ooo I can totally answer that one. When you buy something off the market, you always buy from the lowest sell order in your station, even if you try to buy from a higher one. If you try to buy from a higher one, you just pay that higher price to the person that was selling it for less.
MailDeadDrop Globaltech Industries	Posted - 2009.01.18 07:25:00 - [151] Originally by: Loaby sometimes it happens that i place i sell order at lowest price of all sell orders and then someone buys something from me but the sell-price shown in the wallet is the price of the seller above me. why? Originally by: Johnny Rockefeller Ooo I can totally answer that one. When you buy something off the market, you always buy from the lowest sell order in your station, even if you try to buy from a higher one. If you try to buy from a higher one, you just pay that higher price to the person that was selling it for less. Good answer Johnny. To illuminate, think about the process this way: when the buyer clicks on a line and says "buy", they are saying "I'm willing to pay this price for this item". Therefore, the system takes that amount of ISK out of their wallet. But the broker system always matches purchase orders with the lowest-cost available item in the selected station. A slightly more intelligent purchase/broker system would refund the excess to the buyer, but that would simply increase the lag in Jita. MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
engimonger	Posted - 2009.01.18 20:15:00 - [152] Edited by: engimonger on 18/01/2009 20:16:20 edited to add both relevant quotes.... Originally by: Loaby what happens if 2 people are setting up orders at the same price for the same item. who will sell/buy if someone buys/sells from them? Originally by: flakeys The one with the oldest order Is that really 'The one with the least amount of time remaining?' For instance, suppose 2 players put in the same sell order at the same price, but one selects 3 months and the other selects 1 week. Further, the one that places the 3 month order before the one with the 1 week order - essentially making it 'older'. However, the expiration for the 3 month order is shown as further away (...obviously...) and making it appear 'newer'. Or is this the penalty for putting in a longer dated order? Great Thread!
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2009.01.18 21:05:00 - [153] Originally by: engimonger Edited by: engimonger on 18/01/2009 20:16:20 edited to add both relevant quotes.... Originally by: Loaby what happens if 2 people are setting up orders at the same price for the same item. who will sell/buy if someone buys/sells from them? Originally by: flakeys The one with the oldest order Is that really 'The one with the least amount of time remaining?' For instance, suppose 2 players put in the same sell order at the same price, but one selects 3 months and the other selects 1 week. Further, the one that places the 3 month order before the one with the 1 week order - essentially making it 'older'. However, the expiration for the 3 month order is shown as further away (...obviously...) and making it appear 'newer'. Or is this the penalty for putting in a longer dated order? Great Thread! My esperience tells me , but don't shoot me if i am wrong , that it is the one that stands longest. I do regional orders and come at the same pricing others have on a regular base.With this i notice that t least range doesn't matter nor the lenght you put the order.So it must be the one with the oldest order because there's no skill to improve it.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.01.18 21:15:00 - [154] Originally by: engimonger Is that really 'The one with the least amount of time remaining?' No. If 2 people put up identical orders the one who listed it 1st gets the sale. If 2 people put up orders and one is lower price, regardless of which one you buy it from, you are really buying it from the lower priced order. Example 1: Joe puts up 300 units for 25.25 at 19:07 eve time Jane puts up 5000 units for 25.25 at 19:09 eve time Joe's items will be sold first even if you try to buy from Jane's Example 2 Joe puts up 300 units for 25.25 at 19:07 eve time Jane puts up 5000 units for 25.24 at 19:09 eve time Jane's items will get sold first even if you try to buy from Joe's
engimonger	Posted - 2009.01.18 21:20:00 - [155] Originally by: Athre Originally by: engimonger Is that really 'The one with the least amount of time remaining?' No. <snip> Thanks to you and flakeys. That explains a lot!
Raiven Parker Mirrortech Logistics	Posted - 2009.01.22 17:19:00 - [156] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Got this question in my evemail today so I'll post it and answer it. FYI, if you would rather evemail me your question for whatever reason that is fine. I'll simply post it here. Question: How can you create corp contracts in a station where your corp doesn't have an office and/or there are no offices available to rent? Answer: Contract the item(s) to yourself. When you go to accept the contract just accept it on behalf of your corp. The item(s) will be moved to the deliveries hangar and you can then create a new contract on behalf of your corp and select items located in the deliveries hangar. That's all there is to it. Im not even a noob but will ask anyway :P Do you have any techiques for creating a corp wtb contract in a station without office? Seems alot of people are able to but I cant find out how. That or they just pay the 350 mil for an office in Jita. Thx
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.01.23 00:23:00 - [157] If you wish to do something on behalf of your corp and there is no corp wallet, you need to get the items into deliveries. You can do this by contracting something to your self and then accept as corp. From deliveries you can contract out (theoretically back in too right?)on behalf of your corp. No office , 10k fee.
Raiven Parker Mirrortech Logistics	Posted - 2009.01.23 12:27:00 - [158] Originally by: Athre If you wish to do something on behalf of your corp and there is no corp wallet, you need to get the items into deliveries. You can do this by contracting something to your self and then accept as corp. From deliveries you can contract out (theoretically back in too right?)on behalf of your corp. No office , 10k fee. Thx I understand all that :P My question is, beeing a faction item broker and all, how do I create a wtb(want to buy) contract on my corps behalf when I dont have an office(yes Im doing this in jita 4-4) :P Hope someone can help
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.01.23 17:13:00 - [159] My conjecture is that if you put 1 item of what you want to buy into deliveries, would it not be possible to then put up a corp want to buy order? Have you tried making a contract on behalf of your corp (using corp wallet) when an item is in your hangar?
SonOfAGhost Minmatar Minmatar Munitions and Tactical Assets Repository Zzz	Posted - 2009.01.23 18:15:00 - [160] Originally by: Loaby what happens if 2 people are setting up orders at the same price for the same item. who will sell/buy if someone buys/sells from them? Buy orders are different from sell orders. I don't want to give away too much of a tool I use to drive competitors insane so I'll simply say: Location! Location! Location! ----- Originally by: kedoremos EVE's economy is **** for CPAs, Annuities, and Stock Brokers.
Raiven Parker Mirrortech Logistics	Posted - 2009.01.24 09:07:00 - [161] Originally by: Athre My conjecture is that if you put 1 item of what you want to buy into deliveries, would it not be possible to then put up a corp want to buy order? Have you tried making a contract on behalf of your corp (using corp wallet) when an item is in your hangar? Ah. Good call, will have to mess around with that. thank you kind sir :)
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.24 11:19:00 - [162] Originally by: Lord Zarcam Another quickie question, at what point does negative faction standings interfere with travel for trading? Today while running a few missions I noticed I was at a -2.3 or -2.5 with Minitar Faction. I remember reading a few weeks ago that as a trader I need avoid any negative faction standings if possible. Is it time I start running some Mini's missions? Notice this went unanswered. Standing matters with the Broker Relations skill, which is dependent on both corp and personal standings with the station you're dealing with. Also if you doing trade routes, you kinda need to move around in Empire, so you must ofc be on the right side of concord and factions.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.01.24 19:25:00 - [163] Originally by: Mr Horizontal Originally by: Lord Zarcam Another quickie question, at what point does negative faction standings interfere with travel for trading? Today while running a few missions I noticed I was at a -2.3 or -2.5 with Minitar Faction. I remember reading a few weeks ago that as a trader I need avoid any negative faction standings if possible. Is it time I start running some Mini's missions? Thank you for answering my question. I had almost forgot I had asked this here. I did some research the next day about this and actually found some good info in the new EVE wiki, but it took some digging to find it. For those who run into this, here's what I found out. If your faction standings (mostly due to running missions) drop to -5 you will be attacked on-site by the faction navies. (This is what I was afraid of) By training Diplomacy you can can raise the standings of "hostile" agents. By training diplomancy to 3 I was able to bring my -2.3 standing to .01. On the other side of this, it lowered my main faction standings a bit. I have now switch agents I run missions for so I can hopefully avoid the kill missions (and I really liked doing them too!). Notice this went unanswered. Standing matters with the Broker Relations skill, which is dependent on both corp and personal standings with the station you're dealing with. Also if you doing trade routes, you kinda need to move around in Empire, so you must ofc be on the right side of concord and factions.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.01.25 01:24:00 - [164] Originally by: Raiven Parker Originally by: Athre My conjecture is that if you put 1 item of what you want to buy into deliveries, would it not be possible to then put up a corp want to buy order? Have you tried making a contract on behalf of your corp (using corp wallet) when an item is in your hangar? Ah. Good call, will have to mess around with that. thank you kind sir :) You're welcome and its Ma'am
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.25 02:31:00 - [165] Originally by: Lord Zarcam ...snip... I know this isn't totally market discussion related but I figured it might help those of you farming standings for broker fees. You want to do your best to avoid storylines, always decline them. Never take the standing hit. Also when farming corporations, your best best to avoid any standing hits by accidentally killing a caldari navy, or gal fed navy is to stick to courier missions only. In this regard you ram your corporate standings up, keeping your faction even for everyone and in general lower your broker fees for those corporate stations the easiest.
Petyr Baelich Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.01.25 04:47:00 - [166] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Lord Zarcam ...snip... I know this isn't totally market discussion related but I figured it might help those of you farming standings for broker fees. You want to do your best to avoid storylines, always decline them. Never take the standing hit. Also when farming corporations, your best best to avoid any standing hits by accidentally killing a caldari navy, or gal fed navy is to stick to courier missions only. In this regard you ram your corporate standings up, keeping your faction even for everyone and in general lower your broker fees for those corporate stations the easiest. If you're only using one alt to trade everywhere, yes. Otherwise I'd say do as many storylines as possible and get that faction standing as high as possible. Broker fees are weighted more towards faction standing than corporate. If you know you're only going to be using a couple hubs, no reason not to get your alt as high as possible to those factions.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.01.25 15:01:00 - [167] Originally by: Petyr Baelich Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Lord Zarcam ...snip... I know this isn't totally market discussion related but I figured it might help those of you farming standings for broker fees. You want to do your best to avoid storylines, always decline them. Never take the standing hit. Also when farming corporations, your best best to avoid any standing hits by accidentally killing a caldari navy, or gal fed navy is to stick to courier missions only. In this regard you ram your corporate standings up, keeping your faction even for everyone and in general lower your broker fees for those corporate stations the easiest. If you're only using one alt to trade everywhere, yes. Otherwise I'd say do as many storylines as possible and get that faction standing as high as possible. Broker fees are weighted more towards faction standing than corporate. If you know you're only going to be using a couple hubs, no reason not to get your alt as high as possible to those factions. Agreed. Remember though most new traders are only going to be using that single trade alt before the bug really catches them.
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.01.25 17:14:00 - [168] Thanks guys, some things I haven't thought about yet. Right now I'm just using one alt for everything. Been thinking of creating a second alt for trading, but I alreay have the skills on this player. I'm hoping that soon I can buy GTC's to support a second account with isk's I'm making, but right now re-investing back to more materials to trade is more improtant.
Ronan Le'Meurtrier	Posted - 2009.01.27 02:10:00 - [169] Just wondering: What is the purpose of having a corporate tax rate set if the taxes paid go to the Secure Commerce Commission? Is this only happening because our corp is renting an office and, if using a POS, that tax income would then be forwarded to the corps wallet? Thank you for your time.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:18:00 - [170] Originally by: Ronan Le'Meurtrier Just wondering: What is the purpose of having a corporate tax rate set if the taxes paid go to the Secure Commerce Commission? Is this only happening because our corp is renting an office and, if using a POS, that tax income would then be forwarded to the corps wallet? Thank you for your time. Corp taxes only get taken out of mission rewards and pirate bounties. All sales related taxes go to the SCC.
Gritchee	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:35:00 - [171] Hi, I have 2 questions. 1- What does the green highlights means in the market windows. 2- From what I can understand, when selling minerals, the higher quantities you sell, the more you can ask per unit, is that correct? Thank you for your time.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Asylum	Posted - 2009.01.27 15:42:00 - [172] Originally by: Gritchee Hi, I have 2 questions. 1- What does the green highlights means in the market windows. 2- From what I can understand, when selling minerals, the higher quantities you sell, the more you can ask per unit, is that correct? Thank you for your time. 1) Show which buy orders are in range and covers the station you are currently in 2) Its a good rule of Thumb large producers will pay more to get the minerals in bulk. But with the way the market works all lower priced orders will get bought first even if the buyer selects your order. Location is also a factor people will pay more if the minerals they require are at "their" station, moving large quantities of minerals carries a price of its own.
Gritchee	Posted - 2009.01.27 17:57:00 - [173] Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Gritchee Hi, I have 2 questions. 1- What does the green highlights means in the market windows. 2- From what I can understand, when selling minerals, the higher quantities you sell, the more you can ask per unit, is that correct? Thank you for your time. 1) Show which buy orders are in range and covers the station you are currently in 2) Its a good rule of Thumb large producers will pay more to get the minerals in bulk. But with the way the market works all lower priced orders will get bought first even if the buyer selects your order. Location is also a factor people will pay more if the minerals they require are at "their" station, moving large quantities of minerals carries a price of its own. But it'll eventually sell, right?
Chomin H'ak Integrated Takeovers	Posted - 2009.01.27 21:01:00 - [174] Originally by: Gritchee Originally by: Midas Man Originally by: Gritchee Hi, I have 2 questions. 1- What does the green highlights means in the market windows. 2- From what I can understand, when selling minerals, the higher quantities you sell, the more you can ask per unit, is that correct? Thank you for your time. 1) Show which buy orders are in range and covers the station you are currently in 2) Its a good rule of Thumb large producers will pay more to get the minerals in bulk. But with the way the market works all lower priced orders will get bought first even if the buyer selects your order. Location is also a factor people will pay more if the minerals they require are at "their" station, moving large quantities of minerals carries a price of its own. But it'll eventually sell, right? That depends on a lot of things. 1. Is the system its in crowded/have a lot of traffic? If so, your competition will be larger, hence the chances of your item not getting undercut are slim. 2. Is the item you're selling high volume? If it isn't, then your competitors who watch their market orders like a hawk will most likely have standby product waiting to be sold. If it is, then yes, some items will eventually sell. These are only two points. There are a few more variances that will lead to different answers and possibly trump the above two questions, but all in all those are your usually your biggest factors.
Lord Choronic	Posted - 2009.01.29 03:46:00 - [175] I got 2 questions about IPO's: 1: When dealing with bonds in EvE, how do you got about things that require votes, such as making more bonds (as the game still treat bonds as shares, and assuming bonds here is what bonds is on wiki)?. 2: Has an IPO in EvE ever been organized in a way that allows it to grow without expansions in the form of more shares/bonds being released. Like lets say that the IPO's manager makes sure in the initial offering to save a % of the profit a month for increasing its operation? If so, wouldn't this affect each share/bond's value, and thus also increase the dividend over time? If not, why not? (Giving thanks to Ricdic for reminding me of this threads existance )
Ava Santiago Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.04 05:47:00 - [176] Originally by: Lord Choronic Edited by: Lord Choronic on 30/01/2009 14:15:24 I got 2 questions about IPO's: 1: When dealing with bonds in EvE, how do you got about things that require votes, such as making more bonds (as the game still treat bonds as shares, and assuming bonds here is what bonds is on wiki)?. 2: Has an IPO in EvE ever been organized in a way that allows it to grow without expansions in the form of more shares/bonds being released. Like lets say that the IPO's manager makes sure in the initial offering to save a % of the profit a month for increasing its operation? If so, wouldn't this affect each share/bond's value, and thus also increase the dividend over time? If not, why not? The return on Bonds/Stock in corps are worth what the issuers feel their reputation is worth. (Or what the player who is buying them from you thinks they are worth.) Financial valuations tell you if you will get a return greater than zero, if the reported plan is executed successfully. Actual return to shareholders will be determined by the issuer. Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts.
Dr Karsun Gallente Integrity.	Posted - 2009.02.05 18:41:00 - [177] Well, I've read almost the entire topic, hope the question I'm going to ask wasn't asked. IF it was, then sorry :) I've earned a bit (not much really) on t2 med armor reps (sold like 1200 of them during 2-3 weeks, that was pretty surprising) with profit of 30% per... Later, I sold armor hards (far better profit), etc, etc. I generally ran missions with big tanks, spent a lot of time researching them, so also I got a more or less good view on the prices in gallente space. My problem is that... It takes time, a lot of it I usually don't have, and I don't really feel like setting autopilot in my iteron when I got 500m worth of stuff on it. On the other hand, haulers or take a lot of money, or laugh at me, because I can't pay them much, I don't make much profit. I can't fly a frighter so hauling ores is beyond my possibilty. Now back to the thing I wanted to ask for. Factional items. I never spent my lp from fed navy, so you can imagine, with almost 10.0 standing, I got quite a lot of lp (for a young character), but it's absurd how different the value of a fed navy lp can be small. I always buy my implants (+4) normally, because buying them for 12m and paying lp is nonsense when I can buy them for 16m. On the other hand, when I checked gun prices, it can be 10x more profit. But still, the lp is not really worth much. What field of lp is best to research? I know you guys and girls spent a lot of time making your own research, so I don't expect anwsers like "buy 350 fed navy guns" but rather - ships, bpo's, or implants? Is it worth researching that branch at all? Thanks for the anwser. ------------------------ My Deviantart profile
engimonger	Posted - 2009.02.07 15:12:00 - [178] Originally by: Dr Karsun But still, the lp is not really worth much. What field of lp is best to research? I know you guys and girls spent a lot of time making your own research, so I don't expect anwsers like "buy 350 fed navy guns" but rather - ships, bpo's, or implants? Is it worth researching that branch at all? Thanks for the anwser. Faction Ammo for the PVPers; or BPC's if you have LP's with the right corp. You'll have to check the contracts to see what Modules you make from the BPC's are most worthwhile.
Ofelia Black	Posted - 2009.02.08 15:56:00 - [179] What is that market tool similar to eve-central where it looks only at tradehubs and finds the maximum (Difference between High and Low)*Volume for pretty much every item it has data on? Where eve-central was great for haulers, this tool was great for me as a series of local margin traders. Can anyone recall?
Morgan Grim	Posted - 2009.02.17 23:47:00 - [180] Question concerning the information shown in the Market window. I posted it industry before I realized I should have asked here. The market window shows a graph with a lot of information like high and low prices, etc. You can also view as a table. In the Table view the first 3 columns are Date, Orders, and Quantity. What do the Orders and Quantity columns represent? Is one telling me how much has been purchased on a given day, or how many have been put up for sale on a given day? thanks.
Morgan Grim	Posted - 2009.02.18 22:58:00 - [181] I think I figured it out. I think Orders is how many separate purchases were made on that specific day, and Quantity is the total items bought from those purchases on that day.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:09:00 - [182] Originally by: Morgan Grim I think I figured it out. I think Orders is how many separate purchases were made on that specific day, and Quantity is the total items bought from those purchases on that day. Yes. Orders is how many actual completed purchases (either bought or sold) were made during the course of the day while volume is the total amount moved that day. When compared to the min/max/median price along with the trending graph you can get an idea of what any given item actually moves at. A good example is some meta items, where even though there are sell orders at the max for instance, the median price has it close to the min. This would denote that the bulk of the volume moved was actually at or near the buy price.
Ozilia	Posted - 2009.02.19 13:35:00 - [183] Hi everyone, Another quick question from a startup trader: When i have my Wallet window up i click on one of my orders and click "Show market info" to see if for example someone have undercut me and i need to lower the price. Is there any way of seeing where my order is in the Market window other then just looking at the prices? I'd like a big red marker or something in the market window for all my orders...!
MILK Monk Rytiri Lva R.U.R.	Posted - 2009.02.19 15:52:00 - [184] Ozilia, no it is not possible. Make sure you check your orders carefully when editing prices - it is a bit annoying when you do mistakes and have to wait 3 minutes to be able to update it again... For this reason I love this situation: my price: 1.999.999,99 I was underpriced to: 1.999.999,98 I change to: 1.999.989,97 ... __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
Ozilia	Posted - 2009.02.19 18:25:00 - [185] Originally by: MILK Monk Ozilia, no it is not possible. Make sure you check your orders carefully when editing prices - it is a bit annoying when you do mistakes and have to wait 3 minutes to be able to update it again... For this reason I love this situation: my price: 1.999.999,99 I was underpriced to: 1.999.999,98 I change to: 1.999.989,97 ... Ah to bad :( Thanks anyway for the help, lets hope they add it in the future, would make trading a whole lot easier imo!
Salvo Brunel	Posted - 2009.02.19 19:57:00 - [186] Originally by: Ozilia Thanks anyway for the help, lets hope they add it in the future, would make trading a whole lot easier imo! The problem is that anything that makes your life easier also makes life easier for your rivals, so often these 'improvements' don't make any difference.
Salizar Amolkshue	Posted - 2009.02.20 17:26:00 - [187] Edited by: Salizar Amolkshue on 20/02/2009 17:29:58 edit: typo How does buying / selling a rigged ship work on contract? My understanding is that in order to offer a ship on contract, you have to repackage it first. Repackaging a ship destroys the rigs. So the contracts that have a ship and 3 rigs listed with, those I get, someone is just packaging them up and selling them as a bundle. But can you actually buy a ship with rigs already installed in a secure manner using the contracts? Or do you have to trust the seller to eject from the ship in space and let you hop in, and that the ship will be what they claim it is, when buying a ship that is already rigged? Thanks. I'm sure this has been asked and answered before, but I couldn't find it anywhere. -Sal
Drahomira Mlecna	Posted - 2009.02.21 11:07:00 - [188] you only have to repackage item / ship when you want to sell it on market. You can sell rigged and fitted ship via contract, you can even let items in cargo of ship. There is only limit that no module or ship can be damaged and no ammo loaded in guns. Also when you look at the contract it is clearly listed what is fitted on ship (including rigs). Fitted items and items in cargo are move slightly to the left in contract list.
Salizar Amolkshue	Posted - 2009.02.23 15:35:00 - [189] Originally by: Drahomira Mlecna you only have to repackage item / ship when you want to sell it on market. Ok, cool, thanks for the info. I never noticed the indent before in the details of the contract, but I'll watch for it now.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.02.28 03:35:00 - [190] Edited by: Claire Voyant on 28/02/2009 03:36:30 Is there a list of which NPC corps sell which BPOs like in the old item database? In particular I am looking for: Capital Energy Transfer Array I Blueprint Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint Capital Remote Hull Repair System I Blueprint
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.28 04:35:00 - [191] Each of the faction navies seed the BPOs for capital parts and modules. Cannot remember the exacts of each but most of the navies carry every part except for a select few. I'll see if I can dig up the link which lists all the locations
Linda Tradition	Posted - 2009.03.02 10:23:00 - [192] hey guys, im quiet new to the buisness and just doing some small t2 arbitrages atm. now i want to start with more basic stuff, like components e.g. and there it goes: the speculation. the question is about graphic chart (notting new for you so far), i read a lot of it, but (maybe because im no native speaker) havent get the connection between the medien day price and the green / red line. so when (for example): - yellow dots constant - red rising (but BELOW, yellow dots) - green rising (but BELOW yellow dots) - dorchian channel rising (high and low with same angle) - quantity constant what does it mean? this questions focus on the meaning of the position of the average lines to the median. is it more important on which lvl those lines are, or wether they falling/rising? how to read trends out of this? are trendchanges the "crosspoints" of 5day/20day av. with the median? thx for helping a greenhorn ;) (and sry when this question was anwered 100x times and i simple havent found it)
Icy Milky	Posted - 2009.03.03 13:21:00 - [193] maybe I will not give you exact answer which you expect, but anyway I will try... I generally use these graphs for decision whether I want to buy more items today or rather less now and buy more later when price will be better. It is acceptable to buy 20 pieces of item in case I see the price is too high, but you can still make profit when selling. However when you will see that price is probably in the "valley" when comparing last six month then you can decide to buy much larger amount just to sell it later with good profit even when price goes up. Etc. I do not care too much about median, yellow dots etc. I observer trend - whether it goes up or down and I compare it with 6 months history. The more time you will spend with bussiness the more you will learn how to decide. So actually it has no sense to think about medians and avarage in case you want to buy "now" and sell "1 minute later", however it gets great sense to keep observing the trend of your favourite items and decide when to buy more and when to buy just a few to sell "now" and buy even more when price will be better. And of course so to sum up... I observe the trend of price and decide according to it, because I do more short term trading. I compare actuall price in HUB against price where I want to sell. I decide... I belive other businessmen do it differently so they can diagree with me regarding imporatnace of all data provided by graphs but it always depends on how you do your business in the end.
Loaby	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:40:00 - [194] Originally by: Claire Voyant Edited by: Claire Voyant on 28/02/2009 03:36:30 Is there a list of which NPC corps sell which BPOs like in the old item database? In particular I am looking for: Capital Energy Transfer Array I Blueprint Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint Capital Remote Hull Repair System I Blueprint Linkage
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:59:00 - [195] One of the threads below got me to thinking (yes, I know it's dangerous) of a recent situation. Do any of the EVE accounting tools read into contracts? Where you purchase a supply of items (multiple items) on a contract. The journal, from what I can see, only show the total purchase amount of the contract and not a list of items that were in the contract. It's making it very difficult to track actual profits and margins for each item. I've been using EVE-Commander for about 5-6 months now, so I know it doesn't. Does anyone know if one of the other programs do? In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream!
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2009.03.09 14:50:00 - [196] Originally by: Loaby Originally by: Claire Voyant Edited by: Claire Voyant on 28/02/2009 03:36:30 Is there a list of which NPC corps sell which BPOs like in the old item database? In particular I am looking for: Capital Energy Transfer Array I Blueprint Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Blueprint Capital Remote Hull Repair System I Blueprint Linkage Thank you kindly, Loaby, for sending me back to Amarr territory, where I found them all. I know I went to look there before, but I must have screwed up somehow.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.03.09 19:30:00 - [197] Originally by: Lord Zarcam One of the threads below got me to thinking (yes, I know it's dangerous) of a recent situation. Do any of the EVE accounting tools read into contracts? Where you purchase a supply of items (multiple items) on a contract. The journal, from what I can see, only show the total purchase amount of the contract and not a list of items that were in the contract. It's making it very difficult to track actual profits and margins for each item. I've been using EVE-Commander for about 5-6 months now, so I know it doesn't. Does anyone know if one of the other programs do? Not that I'm aware of, but Ambo definitely has an active feature request for EMMA to shoehorn this in.
BigDe Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.03.09 21:11:00 - [198] Quick question..... Is there anything out there that will make it easier to read a marketlog after you have exported it?
ZeusOnRoids Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.11 01:50:00 - [199] Originally by: BigDe Quick question..... Is there anything out there that will make it easier to read a marketlog after you have exported it? excel or OOo ------------------------------------- you can¦t hit it? you CAN
Skaggz	Posted - 2009.03.11 03:12:00 - [200] Edited by: Skaggz on 11/03/2009 03:13:13 Originally by: BigDe Quick question..... Is there anything out there that will make it easier to read a marketlog after you have exported it? I use this one --> Eve Market Scanner It also allows you to view to region's market orders side by side.
Isaac Swift	Posted - 2009.03.17 06:28:00 - [201] I have two questions. First off, I've asked this question a couple times already, but I figure that this stickied thread is the best place to put it. Is there a list of eve accounting tools out there? I recently switched from eve-central to eve-metrics (auto uploads FTW) and use an excel spread-sheet to make sense of the information. This is time-consuming when analyzing any more than a couple items, unfortunately, and gets way out of hand when trying to analyze data spread across multiple regions. I know that EMMA is supposed to make things way easier, but I don't have 100mil to spare quite yet. Any other suggestions for tools that I can use to make my life easier? Second question is much simpler: where are all of the major trading hubs? Right now I'm operating out of Oursulaert and Dodixie, mostly, occasionally making trips to Jita. I'm anxious to spread my wings a bit and try some new markets, though. Any suggestions?
HaraKiriPT	Posted - 2009.03.19 14:43:00 - [202] with an investment of 220M ten days ago and a new alt toon (now with about 1M SP)... according Eve Commander have a profit of 208.7 %... Selling (37 orders)with an open sale volume of 479M , Buying (10 orders) with 91M but only have now on wallet 9M... i'm i doing this right???? is normal this slow movement of cash cause i'm feeling kinda of broke ?
Icy Milky	Posted - 2009.03.19 15:23:00 - [203] sure you are doing it right, if you do profit. The fact that you are low on cash does not mean that it is wrong, it means that your money are working for you, instead of sitting in wallet. Wait few days untill your stuff got sold and you will have cash back soon so you can again do your shoping, drain wallet and rotate the circle again... I can see that you have quite ammount of cash in buy orders. Minimize this by training correct skill (Margin trading) which will lower the cash paid in advance for your Buy Orders (Market Escrow). few points to consider - how many orders you manage = how many different goods you can trade at one time. The more of orders the more "bandwidth" for your bussiness - set right balance regarding time spent with order management and enjoying the game (my personal limit is now 93 on one alt and 45 on second and I am not going for more since I do not want to spend 4 hours a day with order management) - be patient - you have to wait till your budget groove up slowly, buy-sell-profit-repeat. it took me like 5 months to become self-sufficient in terms of buying stuff completly from my own cash to fill whole transport ship (approx. 2-3B per shoping session). - if you can, borrow money from your friends, returnit asap. You will speed up you bussiness a lot. I did very often, to borrow few hundred millions, return it in 1-2 days (my wallet empty) and then keep money which are mine. - be careful... gangin in high-sec is reality, make sure you do not risk too much. You will be juicy target once you will start to haul stuff for few bilions in cargo. And you must be ready for that - to cover the loss, not let it disgusted you too much :)
HaraKiriPT	Posted - 2009.03.19 15:45:00 - [204] tks for the tips Icy. regarding to the suicidal ganking, i'm using 3 giant secure containers on the ships cargo hold (about 13 000m3). i've setted a password offcourse . i remember reading somewhere that if we do this, in case of gank they won't have acess to the stuff
Icy Milky	Posted - 2009.03.19 15:53:00 - [205] sorry to say that, but my last 3,5 Billion worth epxerience says that passworded container will not potect your stuff when ganked...
Sir Ibex	Posted - 2009.03.19 16:00:00 - [206] Edited by: Sir Ibex on 19/03/2009 15:59:59 I've been trading for a while now, but there are still some things I cannot understand... 1)How do YOU tell what is worth trading. Now, I understand that people try to look for things that are probably in demand at the hub they are hauling to. But in truth, it's complete BS. More often than not, you could be selling thousands of hybrid cannons in amarr for example, when not a single laser will sell. So there must be other factors in play... Do you decide if something is worth trading by looking at average? Daily sales? But how do you tell if that stuff sold in YOUR station and not somewhere else in the region? I suppose you can make a rough estimate by comparing the average daily price to current price in station. but that is a VERY inaccurate estimate because what was the case today might not be the case tomorrow... How do you know if an item is definitely worth your time and money? 2)What do you do if you simply cannot find anything to haul to the station where you were successfully selling stuff for a while? What if all the profit you were making dried up due to enormous competition and price drops? Let's say you still have many sell orders set up in that station. You can just pick up and move elsewhere. You still need to sell this stuff where you currently are! If you'll cancel orders you'll lose money... If you'll keep undercutting lower than what you originally paid, you'll be at a loss. What do you do in such cases? 3)Do you usually haul, or do you sit in station setting buy orders and reselling? Which is better for you and why? 4)How do you deal with people that undercut you literally every 4 min? I doubt there are many people that can sit at their PC modifying orders every 4 min 24/7. It can drive a man nuts... It seems like no matter how low I cut, people will cut even lower. Cutting by a huge margin DOES NOT HELP in my experience. They will cut even to zero if they have to, leaving me wondering where the hell did they get the item in question so cheap, that they can afford to lose all profit on it. 5)Are there any proggies that will automatically calculate your profit per item AFTER all taxes and fees?
HaraKiriPT	Posted - 2009.03.19 16:46:00 - [207] To Icy... ouch To Ibex (please note that i'm a noob at trading) 1) research, research, research... it helps to learn what are the best ships, fits, mining and production requirements, etc.... read... read... read. 2)do the maths about the best profit or the minimum loss... sometimes **** happens 3) both strategies are viable. you have to choose what works best to you. my exp. haul: need more time but can have better profit, sit: less time consuming, less money 4) play their game, give up, cancel and move to other station region,... choose 5) i'm using eve commander, but there are others. check http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1005330
Armoured C Gallente Armoured Investments	Posted - 2009.03.23 23:09:00 - [208] ok i have a few questions, and i have been on the stickies and a wiki and how stuff work and there a few things that are still puzzling me, at the moment i have a bond going and once that finished i want to be going into the world of IPO and get on the stock exchange ( well because it sound cool ) at the moment it is just me in the corporation , and all i am doing is hauling trade good from one place to another. Firstly can i actually do this with one person in my corporation making it publicly tradable on trade good. cuz there was a few thing about board of directors and voting and some stuff but then it say if someone can vote that only one person be the board. can i be on the stock exchange with trade goods? also how small can i make this IPO were talking about 10 million 20 million isk small. Is this doable ? How do i get on the stock exchange, how will i sell my share on there =/ how does the profits and dividend work with a IPO. how will i move the sharesd or does the stock exchange do that for me =/ i know alot of you guys ain't liking me right now because i am loud and scary on the forums but i am deadly serious about this small IPO. and would like some help i knowing what i am actually doing please. join from 10,000 isk per share
Black Mack	Posted - 2009.03.24 02:52:00 - [209] Originally by: Sir Ibex Edited by: Sir Ibex on 19/03/2009 15:59:59 I've been trading for a while now, but there are still some things I cannot understand... (1) I am a total noob to the trading scene, but after hours of thinking and studying, I think I have a general grasp of how to read the market graph. First (and arguably the most important) is the number of items moved. Item doesn't get moved, you don't make money. The second most important thing is the range of prices that item is sold at. The yellow median dot will tell you the average, and the two yellow lines that extend from it are the prices it will sell at. A healthy item will have a high amount of movement, with a median dot that sits in the middle of the donchian, with yellow lines that extend above and below. Finally, make sure to take a look at the amount of undercutting that's happening. If there are too many competitors, you won't be able to sell too much. So there must be other factors in play... Do you decide if something is worth trading by looking at average? Daily sales? But how do you tell if that stuff sold in YOUR station and not somewhere else in the region? I suppose you can make a rough estimate by comparing the average daily price to current price in station. but that is a VERY inaccurate estimate because what was the case today might not be the case tomorrow... How do you know if an item is definitely worth your time and money? 2)What do you do if you simply cannot find anything to haul to the station where you were successfully selling stuff for a while? What if all the profit you were making dried up due to enormous competition and price drops? Let's say you still have many sell orders set up in that station. You can just pick up and move elsewhere. You still need to sell this stuff where you currently are! If you'll cancel orders you'll lose money... If you'll keep undercutting lower than what you originally paid, you'll be at a loss. What do you do in such cases? (2) Try to look at the item's history. You might be in a temporary dry spell. Also, look at the amount of items moving- if the market has shifted from selling to buying, you can capitalize that by selling the items to a different hub. As far as competition goes, they very well might be getting their supplies from a different market. They also may be try to crash the economy on purpose... they'll drop the prices, then buy a truckload of items for cheap. Look for other markets until things pick back up. 3) I'm currently flirting with using regional buy orders, then contracting people to move items to the hub for me. They'll do it for less than 50,000isk, if it isn't too far, and your time is better spent not hauling. 4)I have no idea how to beat these guys, to be honest. Just don't trade too much in major hubs, I guess. 5) EMMA is an awesome program, but it costs 100mil after a 2 week trial. It'll do pretty much anything you want, though, including calculating profitable courier routes and reproc rates. Give it a shot.
Druk'tel	Posted - 2009.03.24 08:16:00 - [210] hey.. so i was simply wondering.. i was flying around in heimtar and noticed that there where no "expanded probe launchers" in that region. hence i flew to Jita to try and make me some ISK. this being my first attempt at making a profit out of the market. anywho.. i checked the market again there where still no Ex probe launchers available. but as soon as i put my couple launchers up for sale. the region was flooded with Ex probe launchers and the BP. whats up with that ? can somebody clarify this confusion for me. thanks
Jen'te An Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.29 03:21:00 - [211] I started marketing in, shall we say, less traveled areas. When you put something up for sale and there aren't any orders running, you get a lot of goofy stuff like your order is "2000% above regional average." I decided to try to affect the regional average by buying and selling to myself. Here's my issue: I put an item on the market for 30M ISK. I made it a distinct number that I would recognize just in case. It was the only order for that item in that station. As soon as I put up the sell order for my item, I found it on the market and bought it. 30M ISK left my wallet. I had the item back in my inventory. Good, right? I noticed that I didn't get any money back in my wallet so I checked "Transactions" in my wallet and my name wasn't in the client column. I was shocked so I tried it again...with the same result. Where the hell did this random order come from? Why, even though I was obviously selecting MY order, did I buy from someone else?
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2009.03.29 20:12:00 - [212] Originally by: Jen'te An Why, even though I was obviously selecting MY order, did I buy from someone else? You can't choose which order to buy from, you always buy from the lowest seller (in the same station). You will pay the price you selected though, so the lowest seller will be very happy. FREE! jumpclone service - NOW 192 locations!
Jimnoo	Posted - 2009.04.02 13:40:00 - [213] The above answer is the important one, make sure you understand it. Originally by: Jen'te An I put an item on the market for 30M ISK. ... As soon as I put up the sell order for my item, I found it on the market and bought it. But I can't help asking why were you buying from your own sell order? There might be some esoteric reasons for doing so, but you make it sound like a normal activity.
Krathos Morpheus Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.04.02 16:59:00 - [214] Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 02/04/2009 17:00:29 Originally by: Jimnoo The above answer is the important one, make sure you understand it. Originally by: Jen'te An I put an item on the market for 30M ISK. ... As soon as I put up the sell order for my item, I found it on the market and bought it. But I can't help asking why were you buying from your own sell order? There might be some esoteric reasons for doing so, but you make it sound like a normal activity. He said it was to affect the regional average. However I've read somewhere that if you want to change that, you should put a sell order, then an buy order slightly higher so you get that transaction counted twice and in both types of orders. On the money thing, I don't know, I've done the contrary sometimes (selling to myself for lower money) for mistake and I've received the money and the items. Try filling a petition, that way they'll tell you what happened. EVE Knowledge
Hatupata	Posted - 2009.04.03 04:13:00 - [215] I hope you guys can find time to answer something that has been bugging me as a new trader. Question: How are markets manipulated upwards? I can see how they come down with everyone dropping their prices to compete but I don't understand how items go upwards slowly over the course of a month? Is someone taking a hand and forcing them up or is it some sort of supply issue? Thanks in advance for your help.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2009.04.05 06:55:00 - [216] There are a few ways to do it 1) buy everything and relist 2) realize you're the only one left at the moment an move your orders up 3) low ball some of your product forcing your competitor to low ball and then buy up their stock and finish using type 1 - buy and relist
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.06 13:24:00 - [217] In addition to what Athre has stated, I'll get more complicated. Buy everything and hold, relisting only limited items at select stations. More specifically mission running and pirate hubs. This works well on items which have a delayed manufacturing time and are difficult for your average joe to transport. T2 ships for instance, specifically HACs and AFs are silly easy to manipulate up or down when the weather is right for it. IN any item you attempt to manipulate up though, you always have to keep in mind where any extra supply might possibly come from. So always have in the back of your mind the manufacturing times and M3 amounts it might take to bring more product into your region. Funnily enough, Miner IIs are also stupidly easy to manipulate as well. Again the key to remind yourself that you're not competing with the lowest regional price. You are competing with yourself to test and see how high you can get any one station before sales start slacking. I've sold Miner IIs in lonetrek... not but 3 jumps from Jita... for almost 700k per unit at times. When had the person just made a few scant jumps they could have saved themselves half the price.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.04.08 14:17:00 - [218] Edited by: Midas Man on 08/04/2009 14:18:38 Originally by: Hatupata I hope you guys can find time to answer something that has been bugging me as a new trader. Question: How are markets manipulated upwards? I can see how they come down with everyone dropping their prices to compete but I don't understand how items go upwards slowly over the course of a month? Is someone taking a hand and forcing them up or is it some sort of supply issue? Thanks in advance for your help. If its an item where you generally have many more buy orders than average daily trade volume you can use aggresive buy orders to slowly push the price up. ie if buy orders are currently 1 mil isk put up an order for a 25-50% of the daily volume and use 3-4 other orders of 5-10% of the daily volume (more orders here the better). each day move you large order up by 5-10% (try to use random amounts each day to stop it looking obvious) then quickly outbid it by 0.01isk by a small order and 10 mins later outbid with another etc till all small orders are above the big order. (Anyone looking will assume a 0.01isk war is raging and most will join in. Keep a close eye on the small orders if they start filling quick and you suspect someone has noticed your ploy reduce the big order to normal prices or below (below is good if it was someone bring in cheap stock they may sell to you at the low price still) so you reduce risk of being stung.) Each day follow the same trend, big order up small one to make the market look natural and then let all your competition hold the price up. Over the course of a week you can easily push price up enougth to profit 20-30% by selling to the buy orders. Edit - by buy bye i cannot take this language sometimes lol
Vinyil Doll	Posted - 2009.04.14 14:10:00 - [219] I heard of a "trader bulk mail" existing informing other traders about large sales of various items. Is there any possible link on how exactly this works?
JAYS86	Posted - 2009.04.17 14:10:00 - [220] Hi, I am not sure this is the right place so if I am wrong... sorry :) I have a question about kernite. Kernite sells for 200 ISK / piece. Why is it that it has such a high price? If you refine Kernite you get half the price for the minerals. The 105% and 110% versions are near 100 ISK / piece. Why is "regular" kernite so expensive? Thanks.
Krathos Morpheus Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.04.17 23:30:00 - [221] Originally by: JAYS86 Hi, I am not sure this is the right place so if I am wrong... sorry :) I have a question about kernite. Kernite sells for 200 ISK / piece. Why is it that it has such a high price? If you refine Kernite you get half the price for the minerals. The 105% and 110% versions are near 100 ISK / piece. Why is "regular" kernite so expensive? Thanks. It is because it is used to complete missions. It has more demand for this reason. EVE Knowledge
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.04.18 04:03:00 - [222] Originally by: Vinyil Doll I heard of a "trader bulk mail" existing informing other traders about large sales of various items. Is there any possible link on how exactly this works? I've never heard of this but then again I don't do much trading, can anyone else answer this please?? Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
ingenting 20th Legion	Posted - 2009.04.20 11:33:00 - [223] Edited by: ingenting on 20/04/2009 11:34:01 Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Vinyil Doll I heard of a "trader bulk mail" existing informing other traders about large sales of various items. Is there any possible link on how exactly this works? I've never heard of this but then again I don't do much trading, can anyone else answer this please?? think its called BULK ML iirc. Its not very good. you just throw out a WTB or WTS mail, then hope someone contacts you, then you make a contract. _________________ - "Welcome to EVE, remember to insu BAAOOM... Told you, newb."
Haren Tal	Posted - 2009.04.20 15:51:00 - [224] Edited by: Haren Tal on 20/04/2009 15:52:38 IS PRICE HISTORY CHART WORKING? Hi all, I'm selling one or two items daily at prices around 20% above the top line in the Price History spread channel but never see this reflected in the chart. Typically total daily quantity is averaging 50 and so I'm supplying 1 or 2% of market. Is the Price History working properly and I'm not understanding it?
Frenzei Gallente Fortuna inc. Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2009.04.22 11:29:00 - [225] It limits outliers, such as your trades.
teoliit	Posted - 2009.04.23 22:07:00 - [226] I've gotten sick of isk wars in Jita Could anyone name a smaller hub where you can actually make money offline? I was thinking about moving to Amarr but maybe it's too big
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.04.24 01:05:00 - [227] Anywhere there are mission runners or PVP'rs! Any system can be very productive if you sell the right products. In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream!
Superfuzz	Posted - 2009.04.24 11:43:00 - [228] I have a question; at what point does it become viable to start trading in t2 modules? I've made a 200% profit in a couple weeks but it went down from about 300% at the beginning to 150% because of the relentless undercutting and micromanagement that had to be done after the first few sales.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.24 12:56:00 - [229] Originally by: Superfuzz I have a question; at what point does it become viable to start trading in t2 modules? I've made a 200% profit in a couple weeks but it went down from about 300% at the beginning to 150% because of the relentless undercutting and micromanagement that had to be done after the first few sales. Whenever you feel you have sufficient capital and the knowledge of movement on the items you'll be extending into.
Drakolus Amarr Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.04.25 02:12:00 - [230] While I should probably know much more than I do due to my time in EVE, let's just say I'm not very bright and not very motivated. That being said I decided to take up trading a while back with an alt character. With a few healthy infusions of isk from my main, I've gotten a working setup in place. A foray into module trading taught me the value of volume (and the lack of it in the modules I was trading). Multiple buy and sell orders scattered through 3 regions taught me the value of localizing your market (still have to do some hauling though). Here's what I can't seem to get. What is a "good" spread or profit margin? I tend to shoot for 10% minimum to cover the costs of buy and sell orders while still leaving me a decent profit. That being said, the margins in the commodities that I am trading is getting rather thin lately. What do you consider an acceptable margin as far as profit to cover your costs and such? _____________________________________________
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries	Posted - 2009.04.25 12:53:00 - [231] Edited by: Ji Sama on 25/04/2009 12:53:34 ¿depends on how much you value your time.. on a really big turnaround (daily volume moved) i can settle for 10% if the competetion isnt to high. but normally i go for margins on the 100%+ side... i also have 1000%+ margins that mayby roll over every other day... it also depends on your order volume... from what i get from your trading style you should go for margins around 10%-15% and ofc higher.. and remember the most valued secrets you already know.. (localization, daily turnaround, margin, buy low sell high!) also remember to diversify ^^ dont put all eggs in one basket.. do some research on your trading hubs, what are they beeing used for? who uses the system? miners? missioners? traders? etc.. have fun.. Quote: The SCC-LOUNGE is now offering Secure Commerce Services @ www.scc-lounge.wordpress.com
Soupea	Posted - 2009.04.25 17:18:00 - [232] I have a question related to market purchases and standings. Are the purchase prices of certain items, say trade goods(coolant) or blueprints (bpos), affected by your standings to the race and/or the npc corp you are buying said goods from?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.26 01:13:00 - [233] Originally by: Soupea I have a question related to market purchases and standings. Are the purchase prices of certain items, say trade goods(coolant) or blueprints (bpos), affected by your standings to the race and/or the npc corp you are buying said goods from? No, only the fees in taxes are affected by standing.
MILK Monk Knights of the Silver Dawn Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.04.27 12:56:00 - [234] Originally by: Drakolus ...What do you consider an acceptable margin as far as profit to cover your costs and such? I personaly have always compared to other activities I could do myself... so ratting or missions (lvl4) ... so basically earning per hour of such activity. Lets say you can make 20M per hour while ratting in quite rich region with young char as I was at that time. So when I spend time with trading - this include all related activities like hauling, order management, market research etc. - how much money I can make by this activity. If the number is higher than other activities which I can do, then it is good for me. And I can confirm it IS higher :) __________________________________ I do it myyyy wayyyy... Milky Way.
NarcissuStar	Posted - 2009.04.28 23:58:00 - [235] I have a question relating to the sales of +5 implants. Is it better to sell them via the market? or via a contract for the whole set? I currently have a few contracts up in Heimatar on my alts, after about a day people usually bite when they are in the market, but even at about 25Mil off of market price, thus far none have shown interest. (24 Hours) I haven't been very patient, but I was just wondering about your thoughts on this.
HawkBlade Minmatar The Higher Standard Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2009.04.29 01:43:00 - [236] Originally by: NarcissuStar I have a question relating to the sales of +5 implants. Is it better to sell them via the market? or via a contract for the whole set? There's no clear answer(s) on this kind of thing mate. Sometimes the market moves faster, sometimes it does not. Too many variables to give a credible answer for you to hang your (or my) hat on.
tom ternquist	Posted - 2009.04.30 05:27:00 - [237] My question is about the contracting system: Is it possible to put up WTB contracts for bpcs with specified numbers of runs? Like a WTB for a 10-run raven bpc?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.04.30 12:02:00 - [238] Originally by: tom ternquist My question is about the contracting system: Is it possible to put up WTB contracts for bpcs with specified numbers of runs? Like a WTB for a 10-run raven bpc? Yes, but often you'll find it easier to find one of the numerous copy services in the WTS portion, or contact any one of the 4 major research alliances since every single one of them have corps in them which can run you copy services (and often have access to prints already) /self plug //I can copy anything and everything in game for whatever your needs, just contact me
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.05.01 00:04:00 - [239] I have an easy question this time, any real advantage training Accounting 5 from 4? At 14 days, I can work on a lot of other stuff. But with a current market balance of almost 7B worth of stuff and turning over about 2 to 3b a month in sales. In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream!
Amarr Citizen 155 Alternative Methods Research Group	Posted - 2009.05.04 13:51:00 - [240] Originally by: Lord Zarcam I have an easy question this time, any real advantage training Accounting 5 from 4? At 14 days, I can work on a lot of other stuff. But with a current market balance of almost 7B worth of stuff and turning over about 2 to 3b a month in sales. Let me answer your question with a question, what is the advantage of training Accounting from 0 to 4? Quote: Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
Nadia Perkins	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:05:00 - [241] I started to trading 4 days ago and i'm sellingbuyin a lot of item. Is there a tool that say you the number of sold and bought item, the earn per item, what item did you earn more with etc?
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.05.05 01:24:00 - [242] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Originally by: Lord Zarcam I have an easy question this time, any real advantage training Accounting 5 from 4? At 14 days, I can work on a lot of other stuff. But with a current market balance of almost 7B worth of stuff and turning over about 2 to 3b a month in sales. Let me answer your question with a question, what is the advantage of training Accounting from 0 to 4? Well, I see. Never thought of it that way. I said it was an easy question! In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream!
Roger Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.05.05 10:20:00 - [243] Originally by: Nadia Perkins I started to trading 4 days ago and i'm sellingbuyin a lot of item. Is there a tool that say you the number of sold and bought item, the earn per item, what item did you earn more with etc? I personally use EMMA for that.
Xeranasis	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:14:00 - [244] Good morning. I'm still reading and re-reading through the Stickied threads, and I have one question at this time. Is there a community approved "template" for relatively small IPO's, currently in use at the moment? I'm examining the idea of "micro" ventures. I'm a new player to EvE, obviously, and I have next to nothing in assets, and so for the foreseeable future ISK measured in "millions" is the level of the game I expect to play at. So, I am just looking to get some solid, up-to-date advice on the in's and out's of that all important IPO mechanism IF I ever decide to tempt fate with a micro-venture IPO. Thanks very much. X.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:16:00 - [245] Originally by: Xeranasis Good morning. I'm still reading and re-reading through the Stickied threads, and I have one question at this time. Is there a community approved "template" for relatively small IPO's, currently in use at the moment? I'm examining the idea of "micro" ventures. I'm a new player to EvE, obviously, and I have next to nothing in assets, and so for the foreseeable future ISK measured in "millions" is the level of the game I expect to play at. So, I am just looking to get some solid, up-to-date advice on the in's and out's of that all important IPO mechanism IF I ever decide to tempt fate with a micro-venture IPO. Thanks very much. X. Nope, but Hexxx's template can easily be modified to fit most any venture honestly. Obviously you don't need to expound as much but the format works and it works well for soliciting discussion, critiques, accolades, etc...
Xeranasis	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:29:00 - [246] Found it -- thanks for the info ! X
jullll	Posted - 2009.05.11 13:57:00 - [247] Is there a third party program that allow to warn you when a buyorder is over yours? Should be really handy.
Vested Interest	Posted - 2009.05.15 15:35:00 - [248] Edited by: Vested Interest on 15/05/2009 15:40:07 No but with this new breed of cache decoders coming out it'll be possible. Of course you'll still have to view market details on all the things you want to check. Theoretically you could hit all the items in your quickbar really fast and something would generate a report of which items you'd been outbid on and needed to revisit. I'm all for it. Then I would just need a quickbar sync tool edit: Our hypothetical tool here could even suggest new prices based on the last cache read.
Dread Medina	Posted - 2009.05.21 16:10:00 - [249] Building ships is damn unprofitable, you could make the same amount as building and selling a ship by just selling the materials for it. Even when you do make a profit its for a tiny amount. For example, materials required to build 30 Kestrel Frigates values about 7 Million The amount made from selling 30 Kestrels? 7 Million?! Whats the point in building anything?
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.05.22 14:11:00 - [250] Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Originally by: Nadia Perkins I started to trading 4 days ago and i'm sellingbuyin a lot of item. Is there a tool that say you the number of sold and bought item, the earn per item, what item did you earn more with etc? I personally use EMMA for that. If you dont feel its worth paying for emma, you can download you .csv list of transaction from the "my character" and you SUMIF and VLOOKUP/HLOOKUP functions in excel to calculate what your looking for. using Emma will make it easier but if you dont mind spreadsheet once you got one running its just a case of copy paste with the .csv file once a week.
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.05.22 14:25:00 - [251] Edited by: Midas Man on 22/05/2009 14:26:44 Originally by: Dread Medina Building ships is damn unprofitable, you could make the same amount as building and selling a ship by just selling the materials for it. Even when you do make a profit its for a tiny amount. For example, materials required to build 30 Kestrel Frigates values about 7 Million The amount made from selling 30 Kestrels? 7 Million?! Whats the point in building anything? The main point of manufacturing is to make a profit (although some people do it for fun). In certain items it is very difficult but most manufactured items follow a simple pattern. 1)Item is unprofitable so people stop building. 2)Less supply causes the prices to inflate. 3)At some point it becomes fairly profitable again. 4)People notice this new profit potential and start manufacturing like crazy 5) Excess supply causes prices to fall and we are back to 1)
Drugabuse	Posted - 2009.05.25 21:08:00 - [252] Just lost around 150mil because buy orders expired today and I didn't get any isk back from those that expired. I have been trading now for about month and this is first time this happens. Anyone else have had same issue?
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.05.26 02:09:00 - [253] Always set your buy orders for 90 days. And I don't know if it's new or not, but if you adjust the price by any amount it resets the time back to 90 days. In a few months you will use 150m to light your cigars with! ;-) In Space, No One Can Hear You Scream!
Hel O'Ween Academy of Truth	Posted - 2009.05.27 23:25:00 - [254] Originally by: Lord Zarcam One of the threads below got me to thinking (yes, I know it's dangerous) of a recent situation. Do any of the EVE accounting tools read into contracts? Where you purchase a supply of items (multiple items) on a contract. I noticed that this one hasn't received a clear answer yet. Currently CCP doesn't support/provide contract data via API, so no tool can provide you any (automated) reports for contracts. You would have to recreate your contracts manually in a theoretical tool and then "link" them somehow to the appropriate wallet journal entry. This sounds like it would cost more time than you would gain from it. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Hel O'Ween Academy of Truth	Posted - 2009.05.27 23:27:00 - [255] Originally by: Drugabuse Just lost around 150mil because buy orders expired today and I didn't get any isk back from those that expired. I have been trading now for about month and this is first time this happens. Anyone else have had same issue? This is usually resolved after the next DT. Same goes for expired sell orders where the items should have dropped back to your hangar/deliveries, but aren't there yet. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Kanshin Dredox	Posted - 2009.06.01 02:47:00 - [256] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Tasko Pal For a trader that has the margin trading skill, it becomes possible to place more buy orders than one has assets (that being the point of the skill). What happens when you buy enough to completely deplete your cash on hand? Do you go into negative cash? Do your remaining buy orders go away? If a buy order is filled for which you do not have the available cash that order simply gets wiped out and the person who tried to fill it gets an "order nolonger available" message and has to try selling it again. Even if someone was only trying to sell you 10 units on a 1000 unit order, if you don't have the money that order gets canceled in its entirety but your other orders won't be affected. Now, what is left unuswered, it what it mean order got canceled? What will I loose? I assume I lose only my broker fee and should get amount of isk I have in esrcow in this order back? Or I will loose this isk? I had it happened to me 2 times, but I can not know what actially happened. My transaction does not state market escrow refund.
Icy Milky	Posted - 2009.06.01 10:22:00 - [257] Originally by: Kanshin Dredox Now, what is left unuswered, it what it mean order got canceled? What will I loose? I assume I lose only my broker fee and should get amount of isk I have in esrcow in this order back? Or I will loose this isk? I had it happened to me 2 times, but I can not know what actially happened. My transaction does not state market escrow refund. You will loose only Broker Fee, money from Escrow will be paid fully back. Somebody mentioned that it can be delayed by DT.
Jin Nib	Posted - 2009.06.10 23:55:00 - [258] Originally by: Kanshin Dredox Originally by: Kwint Sommer Originally by: Tasko Pal For a trader that has the margin trading skill, it becomes possible to place more buy orders than one has assets (that being the point of the skill). What happens when you buy enough to completely deplete your cash on hand? Do you go into negative cash? Do your remaining buy orders go away? If a buy order is filled for which you do not have the available cash that order simply gets wiped out and the person who tried to fill it gets an "order nolonger available" message and has to try selling it again. Even if someone was only trying to sell you 10 units on a 1000 unit order, if you don't have the money that order gets canceled in its entirety but your other orders won't be affected. Now, what is left unuswered, it what it mean order got canceled? What will I loose? I assume I lose only my broker fee and should get amount of isk I have in esrcow in this order back? Or I will loose this isk? I had it happened to me 2 times, but I can not know what actially happened. My transaction does not state market escrow refund. Your wallet has two tabs that show how money is being moved around, one is Journal and the other is transactions. Journal shows every loss and gain to your wallet, it is where you will see your escrow release.
Trip Nichols Minmatar Phazar Lunar Excavation	Posted - 2009.06.11 14:14:00 - [259] This might have been asked already but I've not the time to look through all the pages, and I haven't yet found a guide to explain this: Is it possible for someone here to put in as simple terms as possible, what shares are and how they work? And are they a marginally lucrative trading enterprise?
Galal Dax Young Enterprise DEFI4NT	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:11:00 - [260] Hello All. I have been reading MD for a few months now, and trade myself some. I was wondering if anyone has ever put together a fund - something like a mutual fund - that would invest in at least 10-20 of the bonds/IPOs out there - thus spreading the risk. I think a number of people, myself included, would be interested in putting ISK into something like this versus just in our own account or EBANK only, etc. If someone like Brock was behind it - and it was only invested in audited bonds/IPOs - could be very helpful. Just a thought - maybe it already exists - if so could someone please link the thread? Thanks.
Tyatki	Posted - 2009.06.12 06:18:00 - [261] I have question about selling goods. Lets say I'm selling some Mexa. When I click sell this item it pops up with a sale price of 25.00Isk. When I click on the market info it shows the buyer is 2 jumps away (I'm assuming that's what the green highlight means) but under buyers it shows someone in the same system as I am willing to pay 27.70Isk. How and/or why does the Market pick and chose buyers? Is there a way to switch it to a direct sale to the in system buyer paying 27.70 or will I have to open a sell order?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.12 18:26:00 - [262] Originally by: Trip Nichols This might have been asked already but I've not the time to look through all the pages, and I haven't yet found a guide to explain this: Is it possible for someone here to put in as simple terms as possible, what shares are and how they work? And are they a marginally lucrative trading enterprise? I'd start here They have limited power in EVE in that votes can be issued and voted on for various purposes like locking unlocking prints, etc... When you issue dividends through the corporate wallet each share is issued that dividend.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.12 18:27:00 - [263] Originally by: Tyatki I have question about selling goods. Lets say I'm selling some Mexa. When I click sell this item it pops up with a sale price of 25.00Isk. When I click on the market info it shows the buyer is 2 jumps away (I'm assuming that's what the green highlight means) but under buyers it shows someone in the same system as I am willing to pay 27.70Isk. How and/or why does the Market pick and chose buyers? Is there a way to switch it to a direct sale to the in system buyer paying 27.70 or will I have to open a sell order? Each order has a range, either station, system, or region. When you click on sell the market system brokers your order to the nearest match by range and then price.
Yasuuko	Posted - 2009.06.12 19:14:00 - [264] I have been trading for a while now (with limited success) and i have a few questions: 1) Its not much profitable (i could even say stupid) to buy items (say... 1mn MWD II) in a mission hub, to resell it in a trade hub right? The other way around should be the "right way" am i correct? 2) I usually check the table view on the price history to see if i will trade on a certain item. And i stay away from every item unless they have 3 digits in both columns (orders and quantity). What would you consider a minimal value for these two columns? Thanks
Gil Danastre Amarr Internal Anarchy	Posted - 2009.06.14 21:23:00 - [265] A friend of mine has been working at trading for the past while and I asked him about investing in him. He was interested in the idea, but was unsure of how to actually make it work using the ingame tools. Like say I was to invest 1 billion isk into him. We agree on say a % of the profits for each month goes to me. Is there a way to do that via shares? Or is it something that'll have to be done manually?
Comnn	Posted - 2009.06.15 06:58:00 - [266] Edited by: Comnn on 15/06/2009 07:01:00 I found the answer to this question in this thread... please delete this post.
Icy Milky	Posted - 2009.06.15 13:53:00 - [267] Originally by: Yasuuko 1) Its not much profitable (i could even say stupid) to buy items (say... 1mn MWD II) in a mission hub, to resell it in a trade hub right? The other way around should be the "right way" am i correct? 2) I usually check the table view on the price history to see if i will trade on a certain item. And i stay away from every item unless they have 3 digits in both columns (orders and quantity). What would you consider a minimal value for these two columns? ad 1) the other way around is of course correct for such item... unless you find out that it is actually much cheaper at your place than at market hub ... which can often be for specific items. ad 2) this is good way as you say it, I would probably not be so demanding on "3-digits" condition. It is very different for various items... for ammo you look more for thousands, for very expensive items you are looking for single pieces, where even one sold item per a day or two with good margin is success. I would say that more than ammount of sold items the frequency is more imporatant. It can even be that history shows that item is not good in that market, but it can be because nobody place it on market very much, or unnecessary expansive... so again, there is no exact answer but it is very good indication. In the end, the best way is to buy few pieces of item X, place it on market and see how fast it is sold.
Alice Rubidinous	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:27:00 - [268] Originally by: Galal Dax Hello All. I have been reading MD for a few months now, and trade myself some. I was wondering if anyone has ever put together a fund - something like a mutual fund - that would invest in at least 10-20 of the bonds/IPOs out there - thus spreading the risk. I think a number of people, myself included, would be interested in putting ISK into something like this versus just in our own account or EBANK only, etc. If someone like Brock was behind it - and it was only invested in audited bonds/IPOs - could be very helpful. Just a thought - maybe it already exists - if so could someone please link the thread? Thanks. While this would be a good idea in real life, it makes little sense in Eve given the current setup. The more parties (no matter how "established" they are) involved in a public offering, the more risky that public offering is. To put it simply: nothing is stopping anyone from taking invested isk and running. Mutual fund schemes would just add another layer of people who can run with your isk with relative impunity. I suspect there is another question lurking beneath the one you're asking, which is, "Is there an easy way for me to avoid doing personal due diligence on a bunch of investments in MD, and still spread my assets, reduce risk, and invest wisely?" (AKA, a mutual fund). The answer is no. Unless you're looking for low single=digit returns. Then DBANK and EBANK are options...though they carry their own risks. (Go look at the EBANK kerfluffle thread with a bazillion replies to better understand these risks.) Here's my advice (and I haven't seen anyone else on these forums advocate it, so take it with a grain of salt). 1. Research long-term trends in basic minerals and meta4 items(for instance, look at what happens pre and post expansions to each mineral). 2. Buy ***loads of a few basic items/minerals whose value you think will increase in the next 3-6months. 3. Wait for their value to rise. Whenever I have massive amounts of spare isk, that's what I do. Granted, I never sell at a loss so I have stockpiles of certain things lying around...but by my last calculation even if I sold the lossy items and calculated total profit for all such isk dispensed of in this manner, I've made off with 12% interest compounded monthly since I started.
Eteindre Shandrate Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.06.16 10:14:00 - [269] Edited by: Eteindre Shandrate on 16/06/2009 10:16:39 Edited by: Eteindre Shandrate on 16/06/2009 10:15:43 Originally by: Joseph Shephard I have a question regarding pricing of T2 BPOs. I'm a new manufacturer/trader with my own little startup corporation Arcelor Capital. It only took us about a week of T1 production to begin looking through contracts at the T2 BPOs just so we could begin dreaming about the future. The thing we noticed is that most T2 BPOs cost about 3 Billion ISK for a cheap BPO and can be tens of billions of ISK for a high-end T2 BPO. The question I have is how can any corporation actually value a BPO so highly given the fact that every patch and change can dramatically effect the value of your product and of your BPO? The best example I can think of is this: I saw an Armor EM Hardener II BPO with asking price of 15 Billion. The product is highly profitable to manufacture. Every item you make can be sold with relative ease for (rough estimate) 500,000 ISK. You can make about 12 of the modules each day. Hence, your daily profit without expending too much effort is 6 Million ISK. That was with decent ME, PE, and a good time multiplier on manufacturing, etc. 6 Million ISK per day in profit is no small amount, but then I got to thinking about the fact that it would take (2500 days = more than six years) of profit to pay off that BPO. Now, of course, you could be profitable if you manufactured for a year, made 6Million*365days = 2.2 Billion ISK in profit, and then resold that same BPO for 15 Billion ISK again. Then problem is, a lot could happen in a year that could make it impossible to sell your product, your BPO, or both profitably. For instance, mineral prices could change and eat away at your profit margin, making the BPO worth less. A new item could be introduced into the game that serves a similar function -- therefore diminishing or obliterating demand for your product. A whole new system of T2 or even T3 BPOs could be introduced that would diminish the demand for your BPO or your product. Maybe after three years there has been a decrease in the Eve playerbase that makes it impossible to sell all 12 units per day. Given the long time horizon on T2 BPO investments, is there any real economic reason why someone should be willing to make a one to six year investment in them when any part of the economy (large or small) could be altered by game mechanics or developers at any time? Thanks for any input -- clearly I'm not buying one of these for a while, I was just interested in how it all works. Not sure if this has been said as i didn't read the complete thread, and totally not sure if i'm correct on this (new to the market / industry branch), and not to mention the epic fail of quoting a post of almost a year old: Isn't the return multiplied by copying the BPO? You mentioned that a certain number of items could be produced per day, and therefore it would take 6 years to get any return. However, if you would create let's say 10 copies from a researched BPO, would that not mean that those 6 years will be shortend to 6/10 years -> 218 days ? (Assuming you could sell 120 of mentioned items per day). Would that not justify the high cost of a T2 BPO? I'm asking this also on behalf of myself... if someone could answer this question, i'd be glad..
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.20 03:55:00 - [270] This thread contains a lot of good information, and it has proved useful as a Market Discussions sticky, but perhaps its size is starting to obscure its content? I'm a big fan of people doing a search and looking at the stickies before posting, since most of the time that will give them answer to their quick question... but a 9-page thread can be a bit daunting. So might I suggest that some enterprising person condense this thread to a simple and brief FAQ (ideally an EVElopedia page!), and that Amarr Citizen 155 (or someone else) make a fresh 'Ask your questions here' thread to be stickied, making reference to (or even incorporating) the new FAQ and linking to this older thread for posterity's sake. (I'd do all this myself, but I'm beginning to suspect that I might pretty lazy.)
Erat Ipgnik	Posted - 2009.06.20 07:39:00 - [271] Ok, this is really noob, since I have played for 2 days now. I am trying to buy a frigate. In order to do so, I would like to have some small energy turret skills before, to arm it at least somehow. I noticed there was the skill available in station where I am. The price was 18000 ISK. I bought it at the price, no bargain made. However, it only says Buy order is made. When I will get the skill? Is the game system made it the way that even when you are willing to pay the asked price, the seller must still accept the deal? So, if the deal is not accepted in expiration time, I will not get that skill to be learned?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.20 13:34:00 - [272] Originally by: Erat Ipgnik Ok, this is really noob, since I have played for 2 days now. I am trying to buy a frigate. In order to do so, I would like to have some small energy turret skills before, to arm it at least somehow. I noticed there was the skill available in station where I am. The price was 18000 ISK. I bought it at the price, no bargain made. However, it only says Buy order is made. When I will get the skill? Is the game system made it the way that even when you are willing to pay the asked price, the seller must still accept the deal? So, if the deal is not accepted in expiration time, I will not get that skill to be learned? Generally, orders are matched and executed in 'instantaneously', where matches exist. If you still have an outstanding bid listed, this suggests that the outstanding ask that you had intended to hit with your bid was actually matched by someone else while you were entering your order. From your description, it looks like you were setting up an 'Advanced' Buy Order, with a duration longer than 'Immediate'. If you just want to buy something quickly, it might be easier to simply right-click the order you want to buy from, rather than setting up a buy order. P.S. Shouldn't your name be 'Etar Ipgnik', rather than 'Erat Ipgnik'?
Erat Ipgnik	Posted - 2009.06.20 21:03:00 - [273] Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Erat Ipgnik Ok, this is really noob, since I have played for 2 days now. I am trying to buy a frigate. In order to do so, I would like to have some small energy turret skills before, to arm it at least somehow. I noticed there was the skill available in station where I am. The price was 18000 ISK. I bought it at the price, no bargain made. However, it only says Buy order is made. When I will get the skill? Is the game system made it the way that even when you are willing to pay the asked price, the seller must still accept the deal? So, if the deal is not accepted in expiration time, I will not get that skill to be learned? Generally, orders are matched and executed in 'instantaneously', where matches exist. If you still have an outstanding bid listed, this suggests that the outstanding ask that you had intended to hit with your bid was actually matched by someone else while you were entering your order. From your description, it looks like you were setting up an 'Advanced' Buy Order, with a duration longer than 'Immediate'. If you just want to buy something quickly, it might be easier to simply right-click the order you want to buy from, rather than setting up a buy order. P.S. Shouldn't your name be 'Etar Ipgnik', rather than 'Erat Ipgnik'? Hehe, congrats, I was expecting the first one to notice =). If I would put it correctly, You wouldn¦t have asked =). I selected the name in order to just kid a bit. I have no intention to be a pirate (propably due the reason i have MBA in real life =), so trade and something else would be my interest =).
Basilla Lambros Gallente Mort's of Caille	Posted - 2009.06.23 23:03:00 - [274] Hello. I am a small time trader who is having problems getting above 30M... Can anybody give me some tips, suggestions on how to make more ISK at this point.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 14:00:00 - [275] Originally by: Nadia Perkins I started to trading 4 days ago and i'm sellingbuyin a lot of item. Is there a tool that say you the number of sold and bought item, the earn per item, what item did you earn more with etc? You might read the sticky thread dedicated to the marketing tools.
Icy Milky	Posted - 2009.06.24 15:32:00 - [276] Originally by: Basilla Lambros Hello. I am a small time trader who is having problems getting above 30M... Can anybody give me some tips, suggestions on how to make more ISK at this point. 1a) buy items for 30M, sell them with profit... lets say 25% = 37,5M 1b) buy items for 37,5M ... sell them with profit... repeat 2) Ask friend in corp to lend you some cash. Buy items, sell with profit. Return money... Repeat untill you will not need to borrow money. I personaly had this "self-sufficient point" for my scale of bussines at 2 Billions in cash... When I started, I usualy borrowed few hundreds millions from veteran friends (always returned back in 2 or 3 days). After 6 months I was on my own. Imo this is the most comfortable way how to build your budget when you start from "zero". Also very exciting when you do your first buy for 1 billion and you are scared to death when undocking from Jita in T1 hauler, because you know that technically that cargo is not your :D 3) Do other activities which produce money (e.g. missions). Then return to point 1. Good luck.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.26 04:22:00 - [277] This 'Ask Questions Here' thread has been expanded upon for the EVElopedia: Market Discussions FAQ. It still needs additions and corrections. See this thread for a list of the questions currently covered.
Marius Flagg	Posted - 2009.06.26 17:27:00 - [278] I noticed something called EMMA was recently mentioned on the market forums. What is EMMA?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.26 17:51:00 - [279] Originally by: Marius Flagg I noticed something called EMMA was recently mentioned on the market forums. What is EMMA? EMMA is the Eve Market Monitor Application. For more details about what this application does, and to get the software, you can normally find an official announcement thread for EMMA near the top of this forum, e.g., 'EMMA - Future Plans, New Location for Defects - Look Here to Get EMMA'.
StillbornOne	Posted - 2009.06.27 10:44:00 - [280] hi. i am trading with cruise missiles in the citadel region. for 4 days now the quantity of wrath cruise missiles sold in the citadel dropped from 12m to about 2m average. with it came a huge price-dumping. i have absolutely no explanation for that phenomenon. does anyone have an explanation why the quantity dropped by 85% when it was stable before that for months?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.29 18:43:00 - [281] Originally by: StillbornOne hi. i am trading with cruise missiles in the citadel region. for 4 days now the quantity of wrath cruise missiles sold in the citadel dropped from 12m to about 2m average. with it came a huge price-dumping. i have absolutely no explanation for that phenomenon. does anyone have an explanation why the quantity dropped by 85% when it was stable before that for months? Market activity in mission heavy areas can often come in waves as people migrate between the various agents up to their max quality lvl 4's for that particular corporation.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.30 11:06:00 - [282] Quote: Is there a community approved "template" for relatively small IPO's, currently in use at the moment? I'm examining the idea of "micro" ventures. Beware there's a little showstopper on small operations. Investing is a true end game and is done by fat wallet players who will move money only if it's enough to bother. Despite a small amount looks "easy" to be borrowed, it's not. They get suspicious due to you being an unknown new player (regardless wether you are asking for 1 ISK or 1B) and the fact you promise little back (due to the small investment) actually detracts off the business attractivity. Quote: 1)Item is unprofitable so people stop building. 2)Less supply causes the prices to inflate. 3)At some point it becomes fairly profitable again. 4)People notice this new profit potential and start manufacturing like crazy 5) Excess supply causes prices to fall and we are back to 1) Also, never understimate other's people stupidity, and YOUR stupidity. Others will see that now the ship offers a minimal profit as long as you sell 3 per day? In few minutes they dump 4000000000000000 ships at barely above production price. And what about you? Did you buy off buy orders or off sell orders? In the latter case, no surprise you get no profit. Also, did you bother checking how many ships can that market sustain before crashing? Or are you cranking out a zerg of ships just to see them sold one per day tops? Always recall the ying yang: they are stupid and fail but you can easily be stupid like them and fail. The less stupid wins. Quote: I was wondering if anyone has ever put together a fund - something like a mutual fund - that would invest in at least 10-20 of the bonds/IPOs out there - thus spreading the risk. A mutual fund exists, just check the first 1-2 forum threads. The hard part at investing on multiple IPOs / bonds is that EvE is not real life. In real life you are more or less safe investing and diversifying because the bonds default ratio is not so bad. Profit percentages are low as well, making it a "tranquil" activity. In EvE there's no control so the more bonds you take the higher the probability one of them will fail / scam. Add the fact that unlike real life, in EvE even bonds are supposed to earn two digits yearly interest and you get a stretched situation where a default can taint the compound fund interest a lot. This makes so that the big investors just invest on 10000% safe, single bonds that they can individually track and control. Quote: 1) Its not much profitable (i could even say stupid) to buy items (say... 1mn MWD II) in a mission hub, to resell it in a trade hub right? The other way around should be the "right way" am i correct? There's NO fixed "rule" in trading, it's all out, permanent PvP. 2 days ago I found how by going _2_ jumps out of my trade hub I could buy dozens of items for less than the lowest hub buy order. How it's possible this happens? How's "logic" that none else got it? Answer: take the opportunity NOW, analyze later. Before someone else beats you to it. So I filled up and basically doubled my wallet in one day, in the face of logic. Quote: 2) I usually check the table view on the price history to see if i will trade on a certain item. And i stay away from every item unless they have 3 digits in both columns (orders and quantity). What would you consider a minimal value for these two columns? Again, no simple rule. If it's titans, you can bet you'll see 1 digit! If it's tritanium you'll see billions. I'd stay above 200 per day as a general rule of thumb. More is better.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.30 11:09:00 - [283] Quote: i am trading with cruise missiles in the citadel region. for 4 days now the quantity of wrath cruise missiles sold in the citadel dropped from 12m to about 2m average. with it came a huge price-dumping. i have absolutely no explanation for that phenomenon What Kazzac said plus mass banning of RMT china farmers and "summer effect", where people actually recall that there's something outside their monitor. Also, give a look at the trend graph. Notice how it's called "trend" because it can show you ... trends. Some items have periodical trends, where you can buy low and later sell high. Others where you can trade a lot some days and be stuck in others.
Gail Wynande	Posted - 2009.07.09 00:28:00 - [284] Does the price history graph reflect both buy and sell orders for the given item?
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.07.09 14:07:00 - [285] Originally by: Gail Wynande Does the price history graph reflect both buy and sell orders for the given item? Yes it does. However, if one day nothing was sold to a buy order, the low on the scale for that day will be the lowest sell order that someone bought from. Now I have also had the experience of selling something for higher than what ever shows up on the market table for that day...very strange actually...I guess a glitch. In a way I liked it because no one would think my high priced modules were selling, but I also use this knowledge to know that even if I don't see a price on the table it might still be selling. --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, my shields, st my armor. Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Warp to zero! Damn it my pod too?!? F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Khan Vash'Taak	Posted - 2009.07.10 14:21:00 - [286] Hello, I am new to EVE and have decided to start trading, this process would be more profitable if I could perform market analysis across regions. After looking at the resource section there seem to many applications, but before starting a random download fest I ask which app', if any, provide tools for regional analysis and provide historical data? Regards.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.07.10 15:54:00 - [287] The following answers/corrections and many more are available now in the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia. The FAQ was largely based on the 10 pages of this (very useful) thread, but condenses it and makes the information easier to read. Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Originally by: Gail Wynande Does the price history graph reflect both buy and sell orders for the given item? Yes it does. However, if one day nothing was sold to a buy order, the low on the scale for that day will be the lowest sell order that someone bought from. "Each transaction results from the matching of a buy order and a sell order, so each single transaction in the market history data represents the filling of one ask and one bid." Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Now I have also had the experience of selling something for higher than what ever shows up on the market table for that day... I guess a glitch. It is not a glitch. "Are outliers excluded? Yes, by design. It has been hypothesized that outliers outside two standard deviations are excluded, but CCP has not explained and player researchers have not (yet) determined the exact method or formula that determines which transactions are excluded."
DarthCaboose	Posted - 2009.07.11 20:15:00 - [288] Haven't seen this mentioned in the MD forums proper, so here goes... Getting into trade is something anyone with a good bit of patience and common sense will be able to do. Many of the skills out there are extremely helpful for managing the money flow. However, a few of the skill books have "questionable" value when it comes to profits and all that. Keep in mind that if trading is definitely what you want to do, then getting these skills in the long run will be great. If you're like many others in Eve who want to keep your character and assets diversified to a more active type of money-making (mining, missions, manufacturing, etc...), then a bit of math can show this off a bit. Herko's in-depth explanation of what these skills do exactly can be found here! I highly recommend everyone read through that guide before continuing below. I'll be assuming you're getting the skill books at the base NPC price (since getting the basic set of skills books significantly lower than that is most likely a mistake on some player's part, and probably not tenable to work the margins with). These prices are true in the Domain region as of writing. Accounting: 4.5 mil ISK. Accounting is a great skill to have for cutting down on those pesky sales taxes that take their small cut from any selling you do. Yes, even non-traders will benefit over time from this skill even when they blindly sell their Level 4 mission goods for the lowest bidder, though the prerequisite of Trade IV means not many of them will ever pick this skill book up. That's my praise, the issue is... Is it worth it to get this book? Read on below. At Level V, Accounting cuts your taxes back by 50%, from 0.01 to 0.005 of the total amount. Assuming that Accounting is at Level V, it would take 900 mil ISK in sales to counteract the skill book price (and even more, if you factor in the two and a half-ish weeks it would take to get it up to that level). At Level IV, it would take 1,125 mil (1.125 bil ISK). At Level III, (1.5 bil ISK), and so on... Broker Relations: 90,000 ISK. While this skill only helps you out with setting buy orders, it is a much more affordable skill for the starting trader. The Prereqs only require Trade II, which means you can be cutting your costs very early on, and as a Rank 2 skill is not as painful as Accounting to get up to Level V. Speaking of Level V, this skill cuts your broker fee by 25%, so that the broker fee changes from 0.01 to 0.075 of the total amount. Assuming Broker Relations is at Level V, it would only take 36 mil ISK in sales to counteract the skill book price. At Level IV, it would take 45 mil ISK. At Level III, 60 mil ISK, and so on... The following skills do not improve the absolute value of trading, they just make the process a lot more convenient! Daytrading and Marketing are really the only skills you need to participate in the sell order and 0.01 ISK game. Procurement and Visibility are great for cutting into the buy order market; though it's probably not totally necessary to do if you're looking to play the middle-man. Marketing goes for 3.15 mil ISK, Daytrading goes for 11.25 mil ISK, Procurement for 1.35 mil ISK and Visibility for 6.75 mil ISK. Not cheap, but the skill requirements for Marketing and Procurement are low... Margin Trading is a relatively high skill requirement that costs 18 mil ISK since it needs Accounting and Trade at IV. This skill does not save you money in transactions but does allow you to get more for your ISK with buy and sell orders (though, at the risk of losing out on broker fees if you don't back up the additional cover escrow needed). This is a more advanced skill, so if you have Accounting to IV (and understand the opportunity cost of getting that skill), then you shouldn't think twice about this one.
Rudy Gnarl Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2009.07.12 06:07:00 - [289] Originally by: Thoraemond The following answers/corrections and many more are available now in the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia. The FAQ was largely based on the 10 pages of this (very useful) thread, but condenses it and makes the information easier to read. Originally by: Rudy Gnarl Originally by: Gail Wynande Does the price history graph reflect both buy and sell orders for the given item? *Yes it does.* However, if one day nothing was sold to a buy order, the low on the scale for that day will be the lowest sell order that someone bought from. "Each transaction results from the matching of a buy order and a sell order, so each single transaction in the market history data represents the filling of one ask and one bid." I don't see how this is a correction of my response...I was simply explaining that sometimes the low for a day is the lowest sell order not the highest buy order....that's all, I didn't say anything about transactions being composed of one or two or three-hundred orders. On the omission of outliers, that makes sense for the graph, but I would think they could design the table to display the highest and lowest orders rather than omitting anything. Again, I still see this omission on the part of CCP as an advantage at times. Originally by: DarthCaboose Broker Relations: 90,000 ISK. While this skill only helps you out with setting buy orders, it is a much more affordable skill for the starting trader. The Prereqs only require Trade II, which means you can be cutting your costs very early on, and as a Rank 2 skill is not as painful as Accounting to get up to Level V. One correction here: you also have to pay a broker's fee for setting up sell orders as well. This makes Broker Relations even more useful... Darth I like your post a lot. Funny I was just training an alt in Accounting and trying to figure out how long it would take me to re-coop the 4.5 million. This is useful for anyone trying to figure out if these skills are worth the isk. The real question though, if you have only one character training at a time, is - are these skills worth the time in training... --- Am I being targeted, wait, ahh, my shields, st my armor. Why won't it warp, it's not responding. Warp to zero! Damn it my pod too?!? F***g lag! [lesson learned: log for lag]
Gordon Rex	Posted - 2009.07.13 06:32:00 - [290] Hello all you Masters of Market Manipulation. I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I have a quick question for you, and it may be obvious and lame. If so, feel free to flame me like my name's Ricdic.Javascript:insertsmilie('','WebPost','text'); I have a pretty good grasp of the market graph and table, but I was wondering if there's a way to filter that information to prices and volume to specific systems (or even stations)? Thanks in advance for your help.
Lasakywa Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.07.13 19:02:00 - [291] Hi, maybe it has been answered before.. I would like to know why the price of all implants increased so much lately ? For example : Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'gunslinger' AX-2 -> 275m instead of 120m. Do you think the price of all implants will drop soon ? Thanks.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.07.14 02:00:00 - [292] Originally by: Gordon Rex I have a pretty good grasp of the market graph and table, but I was wondering if there's a way to filter that information to prices and volume to specific systems (or even stations)? Short answer: 'no'. Market History data is region-wide only. Sometimes you might be able to guesstimate where a lot of volume is moving, based on comparing current market orders to the history. This answer and others available in the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia.
glas mir Reaction Scientific	Posted - 2009.07.14 02:59:00 - [293] Originally by: Lasakywa Hi, maybe it has been answered before.. I would like to know why the price of all implants increased so much lately ? For example : Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'gunslinger' AX-2 -> 275m instead of 120m. Do you think the price of all implants will drop soon ? Thanks. can't say for sure, but if you look at the market graph with different time filters, i.e. 10 days, 1 month, 3 months, 1 year. And couple that with rumors of a recent large scale macro ban you can make your own opinions. Manipulation of the market could certainly be causing them to trade above trend or it could be the fundamentals changed, that is there new "cost."
Gordon Rex	Posted - 2009.07.14 03:39:00 - [294] Originally by: Thoraemond Short answer: 'no'. Market History data is region-wide only. Sometimes you might be able to guesstimate where a lot of volume is moving, based on comparing current market orders to the history. This answer and others available in the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia. Thanks for the reply Thoraemond. Guess I should have checked that FAQ section a little closer.
hokyl	Posted - 2009.07.14 18:25:00 - [295] I have a freighter whats the best way to use it?
Midas Man Caldari Dzark Innovations	Posted - 2009.07.15 08:48:00 - [296] Originally by: glas mir Originally by: Lasakywa Hi, maybe it has been answered before.. I would like to know why the price of all implants increased so much lately ? For example : Hardwiring - Eifyr and Co 'gunslinger' AX-2 -> 275m instead of 120m. Do you think the price of all implants will drop soon ? Thanks. can't say for sure, but if you look at the market graph with different time filters, i.e. 10 days, 1 month, 3 months, 1 year. And couple that with rumors of a recent large scale macro ban you can make your own opinions. Manipulation of the market could certainly be causing them to trade above trend or it could be the fundamentals changed, that is there new "cost." I trade in the Hardwiring implants, from my experience CCP have on a few occasions banned numerous macro/RMT account, as these are the most common source of these implants the supply massively reduces shortly after. I always keep a number of various hardwiring is stock from when they are ~95mil to seed into the market in these conditions. I will also buy up the stock from the market in these condition, most other traders know what price people will pay and if you relist from ~120m to 200-300 depending on implant most of the time the price sticks for a while. In the past the macro/RMT have been back usually within a month or so once they get new character's skilled up. As a safty net use a 1 unit order for the implants and push the price up to 10-15 above what you bought them and when you notice the supply increase you can dump left over stock for a decent profit still.
PecuniaNon Olet	Posted - 2009.07.15 22:42:00 - [297] Hi, i need to trace some of my market transaction, unfortunately i can only go 1month backwards in my wallet history. Is there any way how to access older logs (i need only last 3months logs aprox.)?
Neja Halcyon	Posted - 2009.07.15 23:58:00 - [298] I've been playing Eve for almost 4 years and this one still baffels me. Today I checked prices on Giant Secure Containers and at a single 0.0 station I found 3 sell orders: 3 @ 722,222.22 3 @ 742,999.92 7 @ 1,500,000.00 (mine) I wanted to remove my compeditors' goods from the market so that buyers would have to take my price. I bought the first two orders but was surprised to see that after I bought the 742k order, it was replaced with a new order. That left the station with the following: 3 @ 742,999.92 7 @ 1,500,000.00 (mine) My question is, "where did the replacement order come from?" I double checked my wallet and confirmed that I bought both orders for a total of 6 cans. I also closed and reopened the market window to confirm that the page had refreshed, which it had. And there is still a competing order that is lower in price than my order. Is this a bug in the system that I need to petition? Or is this a legitimate but undocumented game mechanic for replacing filled orders. And if it's a legitimate mechanic, how can I set up such an order? Thanks in advance for your insight, Neja Halcyon
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.16 12:17:00 - [299] Quote: Is this a bug in the system that I need to petition? Or is this a legitimate but undocumented game mechanic for replacing filled orders. And if it's a legitimate mechanic, how can I set up such an order? Thanks in advance for your insight, Neja Halcyon Is the station an NPC one? If so, click its corp and check "market activity". If you see giant secure container @ that station, you got your answer. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Neja Halcyon	Posted - 2009.07.16 13:52:00 - [300] Edited by: Neja Halcyon on 16/07/2009 13:54:06 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Is this a bug in the system that I need to petition? Or is this a legitimate but undocumented game mechanic for replacing filled orders. And if it's a legitimate mechanic, how can I set up such an order? Thanks in advance for your insight, Neja Halcyon Is the station an NPC one? If so, click its corp and check "market activity". If you see giant secure container @ that station, you got your answer. I guess I was so tired I wasn't thinking straight when I posted my question. In looking at the market again today I see that the 2 orders I listed previously are still there, followed by orders in two other stations that are the same distance away. But below the orders in another station are several, lower priced orders in the station where I was working. That tells me that the game sold me the lowest priced cans and left the cans at the prices I was expecting. Thank you, Vaerah, for the info. Peace, Neja :)
Dzil Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes	Posted - 2009.07.16 15:47:00 - [301] Originally by: PecuniaNon Olet Hi, i need to trace some of my market transaction, unfortunately i can only go 1month backwards in my wallet history. Is there any way how to access older logs (i need only last 3months logs aprox.)? Unfortunately no. The only way to do this is to proactively dump your market logs periodically, and append them together. The unique transaction ID can help you throw out duplicate records. I believe some of the player made tools (EMMA and so forth) do a lot of this for you. I made a homebrew system that I still play with from time to time, I might make it public some day if it gets decent enough but at the moment it's a clumsy piece of crap that only it's daddy could love. ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ----------------------
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.07.16 15:50:00 - [302] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: PecuniaNon Olet Hi, i need to trace some of my market transaction, unfortunately i can only go 1month backwards in my wallet history. Is there any way how to access older logs (i need only last 3months logs aprox.)? Unfortunately no. The only way to do this is to proactively dump your market logs periodically, and append them together. The unique transaction ID can help you throw out duplicate records. I believe some of the player made tools (EMMA and so forth) do a lot of this for you. I made a homebrew system that I still play with from time to time, I might make it public some day if it gets decent enough but at the moment it's a clumsy piece of crap that only it's daddy could love. EVE MEEP EMMA EVE Wallet Those are the three I can think of off the top of my head that keep the transaction log you dump into them from your API.
Dzil Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes	Posted - 2009.07.16 15:56:00 - [303] Originally by: hokyl I have a freighter whats the best way to use it? This is probably answered elsewhere in the thread... but at any rate: Short answer: hauling massive quantities of goods, of course. Long answer: The most lucrative deals in EVE are often formed between players, not solely through in game mechanics. Review the Sell Forums for similar services (I think Red Frog does a regular frieghter service), and advertise your own. Things that will help you get going: Include your availability: when can you be on, how soon do you expect to be able to complete deliveries, are there certain regions you would prefer to operate in? Include your pricing model: give players some idea what your expectations are. As a newcomer you'll probably have to bid lower than competing offerings, or have some other marketable reason why players should choose your service. Have some collateral: Often frieght is arranged via courier contracts. Your customer will be more willing to trust you with their cargo if you can financially guarantee its arrival. Of course, you could just park the freighter in Jita and hope for random courier contracts. But you'd probably make more isk mining in an industrial ship. ---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ----------------------
Hel O'Ween Academy of Truth	Posted - 2009.07.23 18:47:00 - [304] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria EVE MEEP EMMA EVE Wallet Those are the three I can think of off the top of my head that keep the transaction log you dump into them from your API. Cough That's EVEWalletAware or EWA, if you prefer a shorter name, not "EVE Wallet".
Locin WeEda Gallente Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2009.07.23 20:43:00 - [305] Originally by: hokyl I have a freighter whats the best way to use it? The best way to use a freighter is to check with us, and see if we have any available positions for freighter pilots :) You are of course free to create a competing service as well, or you can use it in combination with trading in bulk items or large items (minerals and ships for instance), or as support for other industry related activities.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Ceptacemia Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.07.24 01:54:00 - [306] Originally by: Locin WeEda Originally by: hokyl I have a freighter whats the best way to use it? The best way to use a freighter is to check with us, and see if we have any available positions for freighter pilots :) You are of course free to create a competing service as well, or you can use it in combination with trading in bulk items or large items (minerals and ships for instance), or as support for other industry related activities. On that note, I have a freighter pilot who I would be interested in finding employment for, if the pay's decent. I have the funds to buy him an obelisk but haven't had any reason to - he's got gallente freighter 4.
Zamaranth Sesta	Posted - 2009.07.29 22:18:00 - [307] Ok, I guess this is the place for the questions that I'd cringe to ask with a new topic on the main MD. I've been "trading" on my main in a few regional markets...I guess.... buying stuff cheap from missioners, pirates, and people who bought the wrong thing and placing the things for sale at full price in a central station in that thinly serviced market. It will take a few days for things to sell usually. The type of trading I've been doing requires a periodic runs scooping up the stuff from the stations I bought it at (hasty sellers usually want to sell immediately where they're at else they'd truck the stuff to a real trade hub I think). I've done a little bit of buying in one system and selling in another. I've heard all these people talking about growing their money quickly buying and selling at one trade hub station and I set up an alt to do that. Looking at the markets though, the difference between buy and sell is under 10% for most items. I know making a few percent an item would add up, but it looks to me that you'd really need to be online constantly playing 1 cent up to even buy or sell anything. Unless you eventually had 1 billion plus daily volume, all that time logging in and changing prices every 15 minutes could easily be outpaced by missions and stuff, which I don't really love, but .01 cents isn't much fun either. I know that no one will tell me what to trade ... that would mess up their own profits. My questions are are the markets particularly tight now in Jita ? if I look harder there should I be able to find stuff that I'll be able to buy and sell there changing prices only a few times a day ? Is it really movement in price of an item over a few days what you need to trade on a less active scale...is it more speculation than market making?
Hamno M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.07.31 02:28:00 - [308] Originally by: Zamaranth Sesta My questions are are the markets particularly tight now in Jita ? if I look harder there should I be able to find stuff that I'll be able to buy and sell there changing prices only a few times a day ? Is it really movement in price of an item over a few days what you need to trade on a less active scale...is it more speculation than market making? The markets in Jita have always been a nightmare for a "normal" buyer/seller, I find its decent if you want to unload some goods quickly or for buying your items...but outside that I avoid. Remember all those people who talk about how uber they are at pvp? You get the same types in market trading so dont worry about others 'results' to much. In a trade hub you will have to deal with people constantly 0.1 isking you, but here's my advise. Look for a small hub near a lowsec/0.0 jumping off point(as in the nearest highsec you can find). Bring out the modules PVPers will need and sell everything for Jita+20% or so and you'll make isk. Just be patient, actually look at the market before you trade and you'll be fine. The NEW M.Corp Data Hub - Check it out!
Zamaranth Sesta	Posted - 2009.07.31 21:09:00 - [309] Originally by: Hamno Remember all those people who talk about how uber they are at pvp? You get the same types in market trading so dont worry about others 'results' to much. I guess that's probably about it. Thanks. As I mentioned I've been doing fine making some extra change making wide spreads in my mains area in light volume but I'd sure like to figure out a way to make these easy hundreds of millions people suggest are laying around out there. I don't like missioning though so I'll trade more even if it really doesn't make as much. I guess I should start posting on a real charcter that I've trained enough to get a face on the forums with.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.08.04 13:14:00 - [310] Originally by: Zamaranth Sesta Originally by: Hamno Remember all those people who talk about how uber they are at pvp? You get the same types in market trading so dont worry about others 'results' to much. I guess that's probably about it. Thanks. As I mentioned I've been doing fine making some extra change making wide spreads in my mains area in light volume but I'd sure like to figure out a way to make these easy hundreds of millions people suggest are laying around out there. I don't like missioning though so I'll trade more even if it really doesn't make as much. I guess I should start posting on a real charcter that I've trained enough to get a face on the forums with. When station trading, especially in a place like Jita you have to realize that no matter what item you have it will move and move fast. Worry less about the margin of an item and worry more about the velocity of your isk. Think of it like this. I buy item A in station B move it to station C and it takes 3 days to sell. I make 15% margin on it. I sit at a station and buy 30 of item A in station C and move all 30 in those same three days. I only make 3% margin though. Which one is better for your play style is more the question though. Also contrary to popular belief you can trade in major hubs and not have to babysit your orders. Analyze the movements of items across time, relate those items to similar items or high/lower items in material chains. Note how all things are related. Once you have those movements down you can very well and reliably predict price fluctuations in nearly every item in EVE. As an example, there are a few loot drop items.. Meta 2 to be specific (I'll let the interested observer figure out which one) which refine to heavy in specific minerals. As the volumes of these meta items go up and down you can predict the price movements of those minerals the loot is heavy in. You can then setup buy orders as the price points you think the mineral will move to, and just wait for it to go there.
Skie Ankora The Growroom House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.08.05 23:09:00 - [311] Are there any trading/wallet tracking apps available that can be hosted on a web server (e.g. PHP/Perl script?) What I would like is to have something like Emma, but hosted on my web server in PHP/Perl. More specifically: I have got the yapeal PHP EveAPI toolkit working on my website Linkage. It can download market/wallet transactions to MySQL automatically using a cron job. I could write my own code to analyse the yapeal MySQL database tables and track profit on items traded, etc., but has anyone already done this?
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.06 06:34:00 - [312] Originally by: Skie Ankora Are there any trading/wallet tracking apps available that can be hosted on a web server (e.g. PHP/Perl script?) try the Sexy Offline Wallet " Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. "
Throckbane	Posted - 2009.08.07 06:02:00 - [313] Why does Jita usually have the lowest prices and the most traders? Is it just because all the players decided that Jita was a good location, and it got a reputation for trading, or is there something else special about it?
ingenting 20th Legion Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2009.08.07 12:31:00 - [314] Originally by: Throckbane Why does Jita usually have the lowest prices and the most traders? Is it just because all the players decided that Jita was a good location, and it got a reputation for trading, or is there something else special about it? It had the best location many expansions back, before CCP changed some jumpgates. Now too much stuff there to make anyone leave. _________________ Originally by: CCP Pann I think we've explored every option just shy of sending out ninja squads with bazookas. http://20thlegion.net
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DarthCaboose	Posted - 2009.08.15 16:20:00 - [318] Originally by: Throckbane Why does Jita usually have the lowest prices and the most traders? Is it just because all the players decided that Jita was a good location, and it got a reputation for trading, or is there something else special about it? Jita, I believe, was the closest mission hub area back in the day for most new Caldari players. It's just taken off like that. While Jita is a great place to buy stuff for cheap (though I've found other player hubs to go even cheaper), it's not the best place in the world to sell stuff. Sure you can sell stuff quickly, but you'll always have those active traders 0.01 ISK-upping you...
D DD	Posted - 2009.08.22 20:05:00 - [319] Where does one buy and sell BPOs and BPCs? The blueprints available on the market, are they BPOs or BPCs? If both, how does one tell which a certain blueprint is (none, to my knowledge say copy or original in the info). If I have a BPO and make copies of it, can I sell the copies on the market or only by way of contract? I tried searching for the answers to these questions, but couldn't find them. If they have already been answered, I'd appreciate it if you provide a link. Thanks in advance.
Dzil Caldari Halo Industries	Posted - 2009.08.24 16:30:00 - [320] Originally by: Zamaranth Sesta My questions are are the markets particularly tight now in Jita ? if I look harder there should I be able to find stuff that I'll be able to buy and sell there changing prices only a few times a day ? Is it really movement in price of an item over a few days what you need to trade on a less active scale...is it more speculation than market making? Markets in Jita are almost always tight. The only place you'll find >10% margin is on lower volume (measuring in isk) goods. Pretty much anything worth making money on in Jita will get .01 isked. You compare this to mission running: in many ways yes, but you don't lose your billion isk pve ship if you have to go afk suddenly for a couple minutes. Folks that aren't necessarily 100% in the game, but can still be logged in, will see this as a good isk making opportunity. Kind of like mining, but actually a bit safer. It's a little bit of both: if you naturally buy and sell in the same station, inevitably you end up with a stockpile. When you have both isk and stock to spare, you can afford to place speculative bets on an item, so that either a big rise or fall will result in a profit for you. This of course is usually capitalizing on the occasional big order, whether from a 0.0 supplier or market manipulation effort. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Dzil Caldari Halo Industries	Posted - 2009.08.24 16:32:00 - [321] Originally by: D DD Where does one buy and sell BPOs and BPCs? The blueprints available on the market, are they BPOs or BPCs? If both, how does one tell which a certain blueprint is (none, to my knowledge say copy or original in the info). If I have a BPO and make copies of it, can I sell the copies on the market or only by way of contract? I tried searching for the answers to these questions, but couldn't find them. If they have already been answered, I'd appreciate it if you provide a link. Thanks in advance. Raw, unresearched BPOs for tech I stuff can be bought from the market. Researched BPOs, Tech II BPOs, and all BPCs are bought in the contracts, and often advertised on the buy/sell forums here. The market couldn't handle the product differentiation of researched blueprints. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
flakeys wassabi mayhem	Posted - 2009.08.26 15:36:00 - [322] SMall tip , look VERRY carefull when buying bpo's on contract that are researched.Some Scammers set it up as a bpo wich actually is a bpc.If you look on the contract you can see next to the item how well it is researched and if it actually is a bpo or bpc.
Commander Stuart	Posted - 2009.08.29 19:00:00 - [323] Are there trading corps? And if so what would you have to do to get in one and how do they operate?
glas mir Reaction Scientific	Posted - 2009.09.01 05:38:00 - [324] Originally by: Commander Stuart Are there trading corps? And if so what would you have to do to get in one and how do they operate? I know of a few corps that would make that claim. You should check out the recruitment forum. However, I've never thoguht trading corps added any value. Trading isn't something that takes a large network of people. Often, though, a single trader can be a great asset to a corp that does other things. Buying raw materials cheaper and selling finished goods for more.
Firid Soulbane Empyreum Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2009.10.01 23:34:00 - [325] What happened to EMFI? I have 50k of these shares.
Mella Elcus	Posted - 2009.10.02 08:35:00 - [326] Where can I get detailed contract history? The journal doesn't say much, not which item or whom it was sold to/bought from. It's very hard to set which price to sell an item for, which items has sold and for how much. So, how do you guys keep track of your contracts?
Raser Moonstrider Raser Industries	Posted - 2009.10.02 09:41:00 - [327] Originally by: Mella Elcus Where can I get detailed contract history? The journal doesn't say much, not which item or whom it was sold to/bought from. It's very hard to set which price to sell an item for, which items has sold and for how much. So, how do you guys keep track of your contracts? Click on the "contracts" icon in your sidebar, and click on the "my contracts" tab. Under the "status" drop-down, choose "Finished" then click "get contracts."
Amarr Citizen 155 Tleilex Developments Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.10.02 17:05:00 - [328] Originally by: Firid Soulbane Edited by: Firid Soulbane on 01/10/2009 23:37:03 What happened to EMFI? I have 50k of these shares. From what i can learn then dividends were payed for feb - march this year and then nothing. Cant find any information about what happened. Surely there must be a thread but i must have missed it going back through 70 pages of threads. There's an easier way to search for information you think is on the eve-o forums. Check out www.eve-search.com. Using that site you can search for all the posts for specific users or you can use keywords to search for information in EMFI or whatever you want. And unlike the eve-online forums search feature, the eve-search search feature actually works and is helpful. <Amarr's signature>
Firid Soulbane Empyreum Lux Caelestia	Posted - 2009.10.07 13:36:00 - [329] Eve search didnt really reveal anything new. Does anyone know whats up with EMFI?
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2009.10.07 16:36:00 - [330] Originally by: Firid Soulbane Eve search didnt really reveal anything new. Does anyone know whats up with EMFI? According to cosmoray's sheet the guy is absent. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.13 09:50:00 - [331] So I have finaly decided to get into building stuff but Jita is just a nasty place to offload my goods. Are there any tools in or out of game that will show where demand is high for a product other than visiting every region market?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.10.15 06:13:00 - [332] Originally by: baltec1 So I have finaly decided to get into building stuff but Jita is just a nasty place to offload my goods. Are there any tools in or out of game that will show where demand is high for a product other than visiting every region market? The Market Discussions FAQ lists four services that aggregate market information across regions. It also has further information in the following categories: Basics Current Market Prices (Asks, Bids) Market History Graphs and Tables Out-of-game Market Information Marketing Strategy and Tactics Pilot Skills and Standings Expanding your business Contracts á á
GreatGold	Posted - 2009.10.22 21:46:00 - [333] Hi All, I am relatively new to the industrial side of Eve and just had a quick question for you guru's. What got me interested in the industrial side of things was the realization that a single Kronos sold can easily net over double the initial investment in materials, or somewhere in the neighborhood of 500m ISK. But now with Dominion coming out, it is becoming equally apparent that Kronos (and Marauder's in general) will be dropping drastically in price. Craptacular timing, hah. So, my question to You is this: what Tech II ships do you predict will maintain, or increase, in profit margin following the release of Dominion and the stabilization of the market in the following months?
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2009.10.29 18:17:00 - [334] What happens when an IPO is over? I have shares and receive monthly payment from some corporations. How do I get the initial investment back when an IPO is over?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.11.01 05:29:00 - [335] Originally by: Dibsi Dei What happens when an IPO is over? I have shares and receive monthly payment from some corporations. How do I get the initial investment back when an IPO is over? How the IPO wraps up should have been described in the launch, however, depending on the arrangement, there might be no plans to wrap it up... in that case you should probably expect your monthly income to continue indefinitely, or as long as the business continues to operate. As an alternative way to get your investment out, you might be able to sell your shares to someone else who wants to get that monthly income. á á
cocou Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:28:00 - [336] So I read the rules in the timecode bazaar and I'm wondering what constitutes a bump? Is ANY reply considered a bump or can I change the price or add some info more than once? I'm not looking for a way around just a clarification on what a bump is exactly.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:31:00 - [337] Originally by: cocou So I read the rules in the timecode bazaar and I'm wondering what constitutes a bump? Is ANY reply considered a bump or can I change the price or add some info more than once? I'm not looking for a way around just a clarification on what a bump is exactly. I think you best bet at an answer for that, would be to fill a petition in the Community category ingame. Then one of the moderators will answer you question.
cocou Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:48:00 - [338] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: cocou So I read the rules in the timecode bazaar and I'm wondering what constitutes a bump? Is ANY reply considered a bump or can I change the price or add some info more than once? I'm not looking for a way around just a clarification on what a bump is exactly. I think you best bet at an answer for that, would be to fill a petition in the Community category ingame. Then one of the moderators will answer you question. Why? Is it a secret?
Amarr Citizen 155 Amsen Innovations	Posted - 2009.11.16 01:57:00 - [339] Originally by: cocou Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: cocou So I read the rules in the timecode bazaar and I'm wondering what constitutes a bump? Is ANY reply considered a bump or can I change the price or add some info more than once? I'm not looking for a way around just a clarification on what a bump is exactly. I think you best bet at an answer for that, would be to fill a petition in the Community category ingame. Then one of the moderators will answer you question. Why? Is it a secret? I wouldn't call it a secret, it's one of those things that should be explained to you by the individuals that created the rules. We could tell you what we think a bump is but then again we aren't the ones that will or will not have a problem with how you bump your threads. The safest bet is to ask those in charge of the "bump" policy so that you know exactly what is ok and what is not. Titan BPC Auction Thread
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.11.19 01:24:00 - [340] Originally by: cocou So I read the rules in the timecode bazaar and I'm wondering what constitutes a bump? Is ANY reply considered a bump or can I change the price or add some info more than once? I'm not looking for a way around just a clarification on what a bump is exactly. Changing your price and adding some information about your product might be better accomplished by editing your original post, especially since that gives you a chance to keep the subject line of your thread up to date. Choosing a thread-bumping reply for something that is well-suited to a non-bumping edit might make it look like you are bumping on purpose. á á
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.11.22 05:32:00 - [341] I am working on getting into an area of production. I made a spreadsheet with the unresearched BPO information to figure costs at the unresearched level. For production, I am buying BPCs until I can afford the BPO. I'm not necessarily the best person at trading. Is there any way I could try and sell to someone who loves trading? (Sell at say, Jita - 5-10%, so they can still profit) or am I forced to haul the stuff and sell.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.11.23 04:21:00 - [342] Originally by: Forranz Is there any way I could try and sell to someone who loves trading? (Sell at say, Jita - 5-10%, so they can still profit) or am I forced to haul the stuff and sell. If you have a bunch of stuff that you want to sell at below-Sell-Order 'wholesale prices' outside major trade hubs, you could simply list the stuff on the market where you build it at your discounted prices, or you might post in the Sell Orders forum to solicit business (or both). If the main thing you want to avoid is the hauling, you might consider courier contracts as a cheap way to get stuff shipped around. Within a few jumps of a hub, you might consider offering Courier Contracts with rewards of 0.1% of full-market-price-collateral. á á
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.11.23 07:33:00 - [343] Yeah, hauling isn't necessarily an issue as I use a freighter. I was figuring that having a buyer who would buy say all my product, all the time, would be a better incentive than me having to train up a trade alt and sit on my orders myself. Trading isn't my thing and I may not be good at it, it's the main thing I like to avoid. I guess I should train the alt. I'll try the sell order forum deal though -- Thanks.
Dzil Caldari Waffle Investment Fund	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:29:00 - [344] Originally by: Forranz Yeah, hauling isn't necessarily an issue as I use a freighter. I was figuring that having a buyer who would buy say all my product, all the time, would be a better incentive than me having to train up a trade alt and sit on my orders myself. Trading isn't my thing and I may not be good at it, it's the main thing I like to avoid. I guess I should train the alt. I'll try the sell order forum deal though -- Thanks. Sell order forum is a perfect idea. You may also want to sell the items via sell order, or sell one to a highest buy order, and use your market transactions to get names of big movers of that product. Reach out by EVE mail and see if they are interested in arranging a regular purchase. I entered into something similar over the summer time with some R.A.M. and made a small fortune, while the producer was able to comfortably continue his production lines knowing his product could be liquidated back to isk in a timely manner. Would probably still be doing it if EVE wasn't so on my back burner at the moment. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2009.12.02 20:55:00 - [345] I have a quick question on shareholders and expulsion from corp. I know an expulsion vote is needed to expel (some?) shareholders. Does this apply to any shareholders (with 1 or more shares) or only to shareholders with a certain percentage of shares? Free jumpclone service: Thread
Victriferusianus	Posted - 2009.12.06 09:41:00 - [346] I have a need for a software that would allow me to check the mineral value of a reprocessed item quickly given the name of the item. Any ideas?
bombre4life	Posted - 2009.12.10 11:36:00 - [347] I have acquired several deadspace modules which i cannot find in the contracts at all or there's just one order which makes me wonder how much they are really worth. The items are Gistum B-Type and C-Type medium shield transporters and a Gistum C-Type Kinetic shield amp.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.12.12 15:02:00 - [348] Originally by: bombre4life I have acquired several deadspace modules which i cannot find in the contracts at all or there's just one order which makes me wonder how much they are really worth. The items are Gistum B-Type and C-Type medium shield transporters and a Gistum C-Type Kinetic shield amp. I see that you didn't ask a question. If you meant 'For how much can I sell these items?', then you may want to post in the Price Checks forum. You could also try asking for feedback in an in-game channel like Modules and Munitions, or you might simply try Google or eve-search.com for past sales via the Sell Orders forum. If your meaning was something else, please clarify. á á
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.12.17 17:15:00 - [349] I checked and did not see, but if you had to rank the importance of each trade skill, what would it be? I do region trading and station trading if that's what you would be wondering. Currently working on Trading IV. So would skills like Visibility and Procurement not be as important to me?
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.17 17:19:00 - [350] To me personally market is order is most important, the more the better.
Barton Foley	Posted - 2009.12.18 04:32:00 - [351] Originally by: Ji Sama To me personally market is order is most important, the more the better. I agree, but only because everyone should have trained Broker Relations and Accounting up as a matter of course.
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.12.18 05:02:00 - [352] Originally by: Barton Foley I agree, but only because everyone should have trained Broker Relations and Accounting up as a matter of course. Would Level 4 be an acceptable level for it rather than 5? or is it one of those skills that is a "must have" at 5? Thanks.
Jitajitajitajitajita	Posted - 2009.12.21 13:07:00 - [353] Hello! First of all Id like to say thanks for this sticky, its really a great source of information. Now.. I'm one of those guys who finaly growed up to do something serious and try trading. So far I have tried 3 diffrent trading methods and Id like to ask if Im on good way or Im doing it totaly wrong. 1. Station trading So I found a few items that looked promising, placed buy orders and... it take soooo much time to fill those buy orders so I started to think that something is wrong. (I tried this in one of major trading hubs so probably thats one of reasons) Most of items have quantity that is being moved in range of 50-300 per day (thats for most T2, named items I found). If Im lucky and Im checking my orders regularly then I can buy 5-10 of each item via buy order. Is that normal in busy trade hubs or should I try harder? 2. Trading between trade hub and mission hub. What I mean is that I was buying items in trade hub (from sell orders) and placing my own sell orders in mission hub with 50-100% profit margin. Problem is that this is in my opinion a 'hit or miss' game. Example. Im buying something for 500k in trade hub and selling same item for 900k in mission hub. But my sales are not showed in price history. That means I cant research market that way so my only chance is to buy something and test it. Now Ive tested about 50 diffrent items from which only 2 are actualy selling a lot, another 28 are selling but sloooooooowly, maybe 1-2 per day if Im lucky, rest are not selling at all (thats after 4 days of testing, not to long but if something aint selling within 4 days then thats bad right?) Is my approach a good one, thats how it works and I should keep looking or again Im doing it wrong? 3. Trading between trading hubs. Now its almost same as Nr.2 but instead of trading between trade hub and mission hub within same region, I tried trading between trading hubs from diffrent regions. Now I was told that Jita is good, Jita is cheap so I thought that Id buy from Jita (same approach as before, buying from sell orders) and place sell orders in diffrent region. So I exported lots and lots of market data on diffrent items from both regions and compared in Eve Market Scanner. I was shocked beacouse prices on almost 95% items in Jita were actualy higher. So my question is same, am I doing something wrong? Am I actualy forced to use buy orders or Jita isnt that good and would be better to avoijd it and try something diffrent? (for example buying in Minmatar territory, selling in Amarr territory as they are enemies and shooting each other so loot from Minmatar space have better chance to sell in Amarr space?) Regards Newbie Trader :)
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.21 21:29:00 - [354] Originally by: Forranz Originally by: Barton Foley I agree, but only because everyone should have trained Broker Relations and Accounting up as a matter of course. Would Level 4 be an acceptable level for it rather than 5? or is it one of those skills that is a "must have" at 5? Thanks. Level 4 is enough. Higher is better, of course, but you can be serious with Level 4. Working with extremely tight margins, of course, you need Level 5. The less fees you have the smaller the profit margins you can work with, but Level 5 is not a requirement, even in Jita.
kilondar Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.22 23:55:00 - [355] Hello all, long time lurker, first time poster. After reading through most of the guides in the sticky post, I am just wondering if there are any market / business classes available. I've seen quite a few PvP classes offered by alliances, but I have only seen casual remarks about business classes. If anyone could point me in the right direction to find a good Market / Business class, it would be greatly appreciated.
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.12.26 04:17:00 - [356] This question is in regards to Margin Trading. "Reduces the amount of escrow you have to provide when making buy orders, by a cumulative 25% per level. At level 5, this means that you have to put up about 24% of the purchase price." Mine is currently at Level 4. I've done a bit of reading and some people say "Put up 2-3x what you have in your wallet" regarding buy orders. What my underlying question is, is that do I need to leave a certain amount in my wallet when I go asking for more than I have?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.12.27 19:43:00 - [357] Originally by: kilondar I am just wondering if there are any market / business classes available. I've seen quite a few PvP classes offered by alliances, but I have only seen casual remarks about business classes. If anyone could point me in the right direction to find a good Market / Business class, it would be greatly appreciated. It's not 100% accurate, but for a mostly-pretty-good audio session, you could try hexxx.rar. Originally by: Forranz This question is in regards to Margin Trading. Mine is currently at Level 4. I've done a bit of reading and some people say "Put up 2-3x what you have in your wallet" regarding buy orders. What my underlying question is, is that do I need to leave a certain amount in my wallet when I go asking for more than I have? The amount you should keep in your wallet is related to how much actual ISK your orders will use. I.e., the skill doesn't allow you to actually buy things with notional ISK, just place orders with notional ISK. When your purchases occur, they are drawing your ISK from escrow and/or from your wallet. Every time your actual ISK in escrow is insufficient to cover a possible transaction, that order is cancelled and the transaction fails. So you should have enough ISK in your wallet to cover the transactions that you expect to occur, and perhaps a bit more if you want to play it safe. E.g., you have one buy order for 5 million ISK, which requires, say, 2 million ISK in escrow (given some Margin Trading skills), and you've kept 1 million in your wallet. This means that your 5 million ISK bid is 40% covered by that 2 million ISK in escrow, and your market orders screen will show something along the lines of '3 million ISK to cover', meaning that you will need (at some point) 3 million ISK in your wallet to see that whole order filled. If someone tried to sell to your buy order to the amount of 3.1 million ISK right now, your escrow ISK + wallet ISK would not be sufficient and the order would be cancelled, and you would get none of the items that the person was selling. You would also get the ISK back from escrow, so your wallet would be back to 3 million ISK. If you have a large variety of bids, it becomes unlikely that they will all get filled at the same time, so on a practical level, you probably only need a fraction of the 'ISK to cover' available in your wallet. á á
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2009.12.27 21:04:00 - [358] Looks like we've passed the 1 year mark on this thread. I think it's been a great help to many individuals and my thanks go out to all of you who have contributed your answers. Happy Holidays. Titan BPC Auction Thread
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.27 22:55:00 - [359] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Looks like we've passed the 1 year mark on this thread. I think it's been a great help to many individuals and my thanks go out to all of you who have contributed your answers. Happy Holidays. reported for bumping a stickied thread.
Darwin's Market	Posted - 2009.12.28 12:17:00 - [360] T1 items, timecodes and Character prices are some of the lowest I have ever seen in many years. CCP haved already attempted to fix the T2 prices with Dominion and it is working quite well in my opinion as T2 ship prices and about a third of modules went up in price, so I wonder if they will do something about T1 minerals next. The sagging prices on minerals is a sad state, don't get me wrong I can't stand mining and enjoy the cheap prices as I only fly T1 ships. It seems to me a 0.0 mining boost and insurance nerf is around the corner. If they were, what would should one invest in?
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.28 15:55:00 - [361] Originally by: Darwin's Market It seems to me a 0.0 mining boost and insurance nerf is around the corner. Which, given only that, would sag mineral prices even more (higher supply, lower mineral basket floor).
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.12.28 18:43:00 - [362] So thanks to the guidance from people in MD, giving me ideas as to what skills to train to benefit me the most initially. I've begun making at least 20mil a day trading. My best being 87mil on Dec 22nd. Without specifying what items to buy, is there anyway to ramp this up so I make 100mil+ a day? My only thought is get more orders. I'm finishing up Retail V then going for Wholesale IV. I hear of traders making billions a day and I am at a loss. For the most part I like sticking to the region I am in. I'm not looking to infringe on anybodies business but if there are any tips that I can't think of and you are able to let me know, I'd appreciate it. It's amazing at what a character with 1.6M SP in trading can do!
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.28 18:53:00 - [363] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Looks like we've passed the 1 year mark on this thread. I think it's been a great help to many individuals and my thanks go out to all of you who have contributed your answers. Happy Holidays. Couldn't agree more , this has been an excellent way to help new people while keeping the threads on the same subject limited.
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.12.30 17:12:00 - [364] Originally by: NyteTyger What is the 'proper' structure for a short term loan with collateral? What repayment terms and interest rates would be considered the average? 110% collateral, more if the collateral varies in price significantly 5%/month, you may get bites for shorter time periods, but minimum is usually 1 month.
NyteTyger Gallente NiteSun Enterprises	Posted - 2009.12.30 17:40:00 - [365] Originally by: SetrakDark Originally by: NyteTyger What is the 'proper' structure for a short term loan with collateral? What repayment terms and interest rates would be considered the average? 110% collateral, more if the collateral varies in price significantly 5%/month, you may get bites for shorter time periods, but minimum is usually 1 month. Thanks for the quick reply! How is collateral usually handled? Held by a 3rd party? __________________________________________ It's a do or die universe, so you better damn well choose between one or the other.
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.12.30 17:49:00 - [366] Originally by: NyteTyger How is collateral usually handled? Held by a 3rd party? Could be, but that will cost you. Best to go with a trusted lender who will just hold it. Cosmoray, BMBE, EBank. Throw a thread up and someone should bite pretty fast.
xythyl	Posted - 2010.01.01 00:14:00 - [367] Is there an application / tool to tell one when an item is outbid in the sell / buy orders category?
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2010.01.01 22:20:00 - [368] Originally by: xythyl Is there an application / tool to tell one when an item is outbid in the sell / buy orders category? Nope. Its my understanding such a program would be forbidden.
Proton Power Amarr Luck Yourself Into Isk	Posted - 2010.01.02 14:57:00 - [369] Originally by: Athre Originally by: xythyl Is there an application / tool to tell one when an item is outbid in the sell / buy orders category? Nope. Its my understanding such a program would be forbidden. It would be so cool though
Princess Korella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.06 23:32:00 - [370] How do I set up a contract to buy BPCs instead of BPOs? When I try setting up an item exchange contract and search for my blueprint it defaults to the BPO and I can't figure out how to specify that I want a copy. Can I also specify that I want ME 0 and PE 0?
Princess Korella Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.06 23:47:00 - [371] what is an appropriate price to ask for a Hammerhead I BPC with no added research (ME0, PE0). I would like to buy BPCs for invention but all the contracts I've seen are selling BPC with extremely high ME and PE for prices that would not make invention profitable.
Ulf Raben Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:23:00 - [372] I am totally new to the market forums Regarding the auctions I have a few quetions : 1. What is a "BUMP" 2. When U bid on something .. and in case ur bid is best .. HOW ? ... is the transaction finalized ? ... with other words as the auction takes place outside the normal trading place in EVE .. how can seller and buyer be sure to get what is stated ? .. How does that work ? I would be grateful for some simple explanations Thank You .. Ulf Raben
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:55:00 - [373] Edited by: Dretzle Omega on 08/01/2010 19:56:06 Originally by: Princess Korella what is an appropriate price to ask for a Hammerhead I BPC with no added research (ME0, PE0). I would like to buy BPCs for invention but all the contracts I've seen are selling BPC with extremely high ME and PE for prices that would not make invention profitable. ME0 And PE0 you can get from the market. Hammerheads are Gallente drones, so NPCs should be selling them in Gallente space. You'll probably find some in other space at a markup. EDIT: Sorry, I didn't read that you were looking for BPCs. It shouldn't matter if you get > ME or PE, as long as you still only pay what you want for it. You may have to work this out with a research company. Originally by: Ulf Raben Edited by: Ulf Raben on 08/01/2010 19:28:28 I am totally new to the market forums Regarding the auctions I have a few quetions : 1. What is a "BUMP" 2. When U bid on something .. and in case ur bid is best .. HOW ? ... is the transaction finalized ? ... with other words as the auction takes place outside the normal trading place in EVE .. how can seller and buyer be sure to get what is stated ? .. How does that work ? 3. If an auction is ongoing and Bids are appearing .. can eventual bidders withdraw their bids ? I would be grateful for some simple explanations Thank You .. Ulf Raben 1. A Bump is just a post. It happens to "bump" the thread up to the top of the first page of that section of the forums. I believe the rules are to not just have the word "bump" in that post, but to also have something to say, even if it's just like "waiting for more bids". 2. Usually.... contracts. Unless the auction is more complicated, like a service he wants to render you, in which case you have to be able to trust the other person. But at the end of an auction the auctioneer should accept the highest bid and work it out with you in-game. 3. Yes, bids have been retracted, for various reasons. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Grozen Caldari Beacon Institute and Industrial	Posted - 2010.01.09 14:38:00 - [374] I've noticed that almost 45% of the market in jita has barely any profit left for example notice the warp disruptors t2 sell and buy price is almost indentical.I can understand that t2 producers want to get rid of stock easy but who is the big brain that is placing 100 units buy order at margin of 15-25k per module?This same tendency has carried over other items aswell what could be the cause of this? knowledge is power
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:04:00 - [375] Originally by: Grozen I've noticed that almost 45% of the market in jita has barely any profit left for example notice the warp disruptors t2 sell and buy price is almost indentical.I can understand that t2 producers want to get rid of stock easy but who is the big brain that is placing 100 units buy order at margin of 15-25k per module?This same tendency has carried over other items aswell what could be the cause of this? I haven't looked at those particular items, but at times as buy orders are creeping up, or sell orders are creeping down, the margin will be slim to non-existant. They can even rise so that the buy orders start buying out the sell orders. Looking at the price history you might see fluctuations with rises and falls attributed to this. It's not likely that someone posted a sell order first when the buy order was so high so that, with broker fees, he would have been better off selling to the buy order. But keep looking. There are still items, even in Jita, worth trading in that keep a decent spread. Or you can take your knowledge from what you've been noticing and bank on future wells in the market, buying when low and either selling when demand rises or posting a sell order for the buy orders to catch up to. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.11 15:10:00 - [376] Who uses t2 warp disruptors for anything?
Veloni	Posted - 2010.01.14 20:21:00 - [377] I wanted to have a go at trading, because well, it's refreshing to do something else then blowing stuff up. If my intial experiments go well I might get a second account that focuses on it. That said, trading between stations atm isn't my thing, because of my limited hauling capacitity. So basicly what I am doing atm is, place buy orders for items that have a good margin between the highest buy order and the lowest sell order. I buy a certain amount of that, play the 0,0001 isk wars on the buy orders untill I get the items, then put up sell orders, and try to sell them with a profit. Am I doing it right, or is there some stupid mistake that I'm doing? Later if I decide to go larger, is it needed to focus on one thing, for example just trading between and in stations with buy/sell orders. Or do people generally also focus on things as manufacturing? Or is that just not possible due to having to spread your SP to much around.
Drake Modain Raata Invicti Undivided	Posted - 2010.01.14 23:36:00 - [378] So I hear mention of traders talking about "MD" channels. I'm assuming this has something to do with widespread market chat channels where people maybe place or offer big orders? can anyone give me info on this?
Glen1806	Posted - 2010.01.15 11:13:00 - [379] any idea when the price of hulks will go down ???
Deimos Draganov Draganov Corporation	Posted - 2010.01.15 19:27:00 - [380] I have a general question related to issuing bonds. I am thinking of issuing a small bond for my Corporation, to help me have a little more capital to flex my trading muscle (not that I understand the system a lot better). As I, and my company, are fairly new to the game I do not expect to be able to float anything that big (untrusted, unproven) but I think that maybe a 1,000,000,000 ISK amount would be reasonable. My question is this, are these bonds traded in the game as the companies' shares, or do they just exist on a conceptual and trust level?
Onyth	Posted - 2010.01.17 22:32:00 - [381] Originally by: Deimos Draganov Edited by: Deimos Draganov on 15/01/2010 19:49:09 I have a general question related to issuing bonds. I am thinking of issuing a small bond for my Corporation, to help me have a little more capital to flex my trading muscle (now that I understand the system a lot better). As I, and my company, are fairly new to the game I do not expect to be able to float anything that big (untrusted, unproven) but I think that maybe a 1,000,000,000 ISK amount would be reasonable. My question is this, are these bonds traded in the game as the companies' shares, or do they just exist on a conceptual and trust level? You might want to consider getting a loan, definatly if you can provide sufficient collateral you shouldn't have any problems getting one (a few posts above its nicely explained how much collateral should do). If you don't want to get a loan, then try to look for a bond/ipo thread (preferably a good one xD) but you should be able to see that at the reactions more experianced people than me gave to them. And mostly shares are given out to easily distribute profits, but in essense that's not 'nessesary', if you can keep track of your investors without shares and want to take the extra effort to turn out a fair share of the profits to everyone manually, I doubt anyone will complain.
Deimos Draganov Draganov Corporation	Posted - 2010.01.18 00:15:00 - [382] Originally by: Onyth You might want to consider getting a loan, definatly if you can provide sufficient collateral you shouldn't have any problems getting one (a few posts above its nicely explained how much collateral should do). If you don't want to get a loan, then try to look for a bond/ipo thread (preferably a good one xD) but you should be able to see that at the reactions more experianced people than me gave to them. And mostly shares are given out to easily distribute profits, but in essense that's not 'nessesary', if you can keep track of your investors without shares and want to take the extra effort to turn out a fair share of the profits to everyone manually, I doubt anyone will complain. Thank you for youre advice, it is much appreciated.
Roger Kiyosaki Community for Active Tax Evasion	Posted - 2010.01.21 14:23:00 - [383] Hey MD, quick question: Is there a channel out there in Eve for buying/selling shares/bonds? I believe something like a trading floor could be beneficial with proper moderation.
Mme Pinkerton Eschaton Industries	Posted - 2010.01.23 08:53:00 - [384] Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Is there a channel out there in Eve for buying/selling shares/bonds? I believe something like a trading floor could be beneficial with proper moderation. You are overestimating the trade volume. There are a few loosely trade-related chat channels in which you might find buyers or sellers for publicly traded shares, many MDers will hang out in scc-lounge and/or Signatures. Then there is a forum thread doing exactly what you would like to see: The 2010 stock exchange tracker. And a (very new) mailing list who could/can also be used to this purpose: Market Alerts Mailing List. Chat channels have the big disadvantage of both buyer and seller having to be online at the same time.
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Holdings	Posted - 2010.01.23 14:38:00 - [385] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton You are overestimating the trade volume. Chat channels have the big disadvantage of both buyer and seller having to be online at the same time. ^
Sgt MaxFightmaster	Posted - 2010.02.07 07:26:00 - [386] I'm not entirely sure I understand the concept of collateral with respect to bonds/ipos. If I have x$ backing up an investment that means that money is not being used in a money making capacity. So, for a 10 bil isk bond if I have it backed up by 10 bil isk in assets/cap that's a lot of money that is not being used to make investments. If the collateral was, say a BPO or a POS, then for it to still be making its ROI it would need to be in use, which I would assume would mean that it would need to be in the owners' hands to maintain income from it (ie I could not give the BPO to someone else to hold onto as then it would not be in use and making me money). I do understand it in the case of a courier contract, just not as I have seen it in Bonds. Am I missing something here?
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2010.02.07 09:44:00 - [387] Originally by: Sgt MaxFightmaster If the collateral was, say a BPO or a POS, then for it to still be making its ROI it would need to be in use, which I would assume would mean that it would need to be in the owners' hands to maintain income from it (ie I could not give the BPO to someone else to hold onto as then it would not be in use and making me money). You are basically right but missing some of the finer points. BPOs don't have to be in your possession to be used for manufacturing or to be researched. They can be locked down by a 3rd party and still be used by yourself. Many people own unused "collectables" that they wouldn't mind giving away for a month or two but that would be hard to liquidate and reacquire. (Only stupid investors would value these at anything more than the value of instant liquidation) Everyone who is giving a liquid asset (such as a freighter) as collateral is just trying to grind some reputation and has no real need for the money.
Sgt MaxFightmaster	Posted - 2010.02.07 21:31:00 - [388] Ok, makes sense, particularly the point about the freighter, cause I can't see how anyone would lock up that much of their capital. So then, how do you find a 3rd party that is trustworthy? Seems like at the end of the day there's always the trust issue.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.02.09 04:58:00 - [389] For reputable third parties, you usually look at people who have either a reputation specifically as a third party (e.g. cosmoray, Chribba) or have less to gain from yoinking your stuff than they do from maintaing good relations with the rest of MD. For example, I wouldn't mind being a third party to a venture that needed collateral held for, say, 1b - but I don't feel that I would be the right person to hold 100b in, say, T2 BPOs - simply because I've provided no real proof that I can be trusted with that much in assets. The rule of thumb, imho, is that the person should have more disincentive to scam than incentive, as much as can be arranged for. Not that I'm saying I would scam if somebody needed me to lock down 100b in t2 bpos, mind you, just that I don't feel that my current disincentives to scam from a purely external viewpoint don't justify that much trust in myself. --------------------------------- Regarding high-sec mining: Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.02.09 05:09:00 - [390] Getting to learn the market graphs a little more intimately. When you seen the median price sitting at the top of the donchian channel my understanding is that >50% of the orders for the day were done off of the same sell order which had the max price of the day. Is that the correct understanding? Also, what do yall take from that? Is it price manipulation, or what? I'm not sure why it would end up like that. Maybe if someone was buying out all of the stocks in a region and bought out all of the low quantity items, and the sell order at the top of the channel was the cheapest one that had significant quantity? Also, I read on evelopedia that the lines on the median represent the "high/low" prices. What interpretation do you put on the difference between that spread and the donchian channel, like seeing the low end of the median spread hit the bottom of the donchian channel shows that there are really stupid/ignorant players here who will fill lowball orders regularly. Or on the high end that there are people lazy enough to spend that much extra? Or am I overthinking this one.
Aeneidae Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.02.09 16:54:00 - [391] Quick easy question: What channel are you all guys into(Breaker, Cosmo, VV, Raw, etc, etc)? Would love to hang there and just read and maybe learn some new things. :)
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Holdings	Posted - 2010.02.09 20:46:00 - [392] Originally by: Aeneidae Quick easy question: What channel are you all guys into(Breaker, Cosmo, VV, Raw, etc, etc)? Would love to hang there and just read and maybe learn some new things. :) "scc-lounge" and "signatures"
Grozen Caldari Centus Industries	Posted - 2010.02.10 00:36:00 - [393] Edited by: Grozen on 10/02/2010 00:37:06 Edited by: Grozen on 10/02/2010 00:36:47 Did this venture went ok or not? BSAC mineral market manipulation Interested to find out but wasn't around at the time. knowledge is power
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.02.10 17:04:00 - [394] After a couple days playing with the market graph (from a traders perspective, did it for years as a lazy mission runner, so y'all gotta love me a little) I have some more coherent questions than that last barrage: 1) what's the exact difference between the donchian channel and the median spread/lines? From what I have read both seem to describe the high and lows of the day, but which represents orders (and does it represent active or new orders), and which represents actual trades? 2) Is there any way to adjust the axes, and if not has CCP made any official responses to requests for that feature? Because the volume axis has ridiculously low resolution.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.02.11 03:04:00 - [395] Originally by: Tehg Rhind what's the exact difference between the donchian channel and the median spread/lines? From what I have read both seem to describe the high and lows of the day, but which represents orders (and does it represent active or new orders), and which represents actual trades? The boundaries of today's Donchian channel are the lowest 'low' and the highest 'high' prices of the past five days. So the daily spreads do define the Donchian channel, albeit indirectly. Current standing orders are not reflected in the Market History data (table or chart): it reports only data for completed transactions. Recall that each completed transaction is the result of match an ask and a bid (one or more of which was a standing order at the time of the match). The recorded daily lows and highs are trimmed of 'outliers', although the exact definition of what constitutes an outlier has not been precisely stated in public as yet. Some have suggested that transactions with prices outside two standard deviations of the daily mean are excluded. Note that although the chart indicates that the yellow dots represent daily median prices, convincing evidence was presented more than a year ago that the yellow dots actually represent daily mean prices. Originally by: Tehg Rhind 2) Is there any way to adjust the axes, and if not has CCP made any official responses to requests for that feature? Because the volume axis has ridiculously low resolution. There is no way to adjust the axes in-game. If you export the dataùI understand that there is software to parse Market History cache files to other formats, such as CSV, though I'm not aware of an available, compiled free-standing application program that does soùthen you can make whatever graphs using whatever graphing tool(s) you want, e.g., OpenOffice.org. á á
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.02.11 04:53:00 - [396] man, what I wouldn't give for the full market data files and a week with JMP. Anywho, thanks for the clarification, and I was still a little confused about the donchian channel and found this much better explanation than any other I have seen "Today's upper and lower bounds on the Donchian Channel are the highest and lowest recorded prices (outliers are excluded) from the past five days" That part in bold is definitely the key I have been trying to figure out. This was on evelopedia, but in a different section than the one I was looking for before. With this knowledge in hand I can quite comfortably remove that donchian channel. Does anyone actually use that? The median lines give you the exact same data but with actual resolution and no time lagged smearing. If you are looking at a years worth of data I could see its use, but in looking at a month or even three months what use does that have other than making you see patterns that aren't there?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.02.11 05:31:00 - [397] Originally by: Tehg Rhind If you are right about the median actually being the mean (which if that is true that is a MASSIVE mistake cause there aint a normal distribution on the market as far as I can tell) then the then all the data you need to generate that chart is in the "show table".... The evidence that the values are means rather than medians seems conclusive to me, and when I logged the issue in a bug report, it was confirmed by a Bug Hunter and split into two defects. The defect I had submitted was later tagged as 'Fixed in: TEX 1.3', but I don't know what 'TEX 1.3' is/was, and I have never seen any evidence that any related fix was published to Tranquility, nor any mention of a related fix in any patch notes. I agree that there is no reason to think that transaction+prices are normally distributed. á á
Kera Delacour Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2010.02.11 13:36:00 - [398] Hi... I'm planning to offer my corporation members the ability to buy shares in our corp as a form of profit sharing amongst the members. I already know that if they leave they will still be paid dividends, and I'm fine with that... if they leave their money invested they deserve to be paid dividends on it. What I'm curious about is a rumor I recently heard that if you hold shares you also receive corp mails for the corp you hold shares in? I don't think this is true but thought I'd ask here to be sure. Thanks! ---
Kalni	Posted - 2010.02.12 13:57:00 - [399] I'm pretty new but want to be going the business giant way. Loved the shpiel on the starter agent (missions didt really match up to dream tho). I read loads and basically buy lo sell hi (duh!!) but wot to trade between basic ship equip and frigates which is OK and the next step? SHould I join a corporate, will they actually help or just another tax?
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:41:00 - [400] Originally by: Kalni SHould I join a corporate, will they actually help or just another tax? The impression I have gotten is that trading is often more a lone wolf setup than other professions. With something like mission running or piracy having a group of like minded individuals is good as you can share advice on fits and work together on lvl 5s or (in the piracy case) put together a hunting pack, etc.. With trading people are willing to help but only to a point, because they won't tell you all the trade routes they use, it simply doesn't make sense for them to do that. That said, a trader can maintain a symbiotic relationship with people from other professions. Say you are in a mission running group, they get a lot of product X over time. This product doesn't sell well in their region, but does in another. The market does account for that, but not much, therefore if you are in a corp with them you could be their go to guy for unloading that product at a higher margin than they would get on the market, and you would have a steady stream of product. Even if you are paying a little bit higher than the market does, you never have to play the .01 game (time is money) To be honest I don't know how effective that really is, but in my old mission corp we had someone who would do that. If you are new to EvE, and want to get into trading, let me suggest finding a good mission running corp. For one running missions will help you get some starting capital, but it will also let you learn more about what fittings you get a lot of while running missions in region X, and what you can realistically expect to sell them for. Mission runners can be one of your greatest sources of trade. They loot a lot of low value equipment, they are generally lazy (really its not lazyness its priorities) enough to sell that same low value equipment for pennies on the dollar, and, best of all, they are also lazy (again its actually priorities) enough to pay double price on another low value item when they need it instead of jumping to the next system and buying it there. Understanding which low value items are which can make you a lot of money. Long story short, mission runners are very important to many traders income, and becoming one would give you the starting cap you need and help you understand their mentality better, therefore I would suggest looking into one of their corps.
Iva Posavec Posavec Innovations	Posted - 2010.02.13 06:30:00 - [401] Hello MD. I have been looking through the different resources but I believe I have missed something as I can't seem to find it, so apologies for such a silly question. When I place buy orders for let's say 2 weeks, and the order is never filled do I get my isk back that was held to cover the order? Also, is there any fee's that I will not get back even if the order isn't filled? Hope someone can help. Iva Posavec CEO of Posavec Innovations
Lui Kai Better Than You	Posted - 2010.02.13 06:33:00 - [402] Originally by: Iva Posavec Hello MD. I have been looking through the different resources but I believe I have missed something as I can't seem to find it, so apologies for such a silly question. When I place buy orders for let's say 2 weeks, and the order is never filled do I get my isk back that was held to cover the order? Also, is there any fee's that I will not get back even if the order isn't filled? Hope someone can help. Yes, you get your isk back. The broker fees, however, are lost. ----------------
Iva Posavec Posavec Innovations	Posted - 2010.02.13 06:44:00 - [403] Originally by: Lui Kai Yes, you get your isk back. The broker fees, however, are lost. Thank you very much, and only 3 minutes to get a reply. Much appreciated. Iva Posavec CEO of Posavec Innovations
Dzil Caldari Greyhound investments	Posted - 2010.02.15 19:25:00 - [404] Originally by: Kera Delacour Hi... I'm planning to offer my corporation members the ability to buy shares in our corp as a form of profit sharing amongst the members. I already know that if they leave they will still be paid dividends, and I'm fine with that... if they leave their money invested they deserve to be paid dividends on it. What I'm curious about is a rumor I recently heard that if you hold shares you also receive corp mails for the corp you hold shares in? I don't think this is true but thought I'd ask here to be sure. Thanks! When I first began selling corps, I would sometimes keep a single share of the corp as a keepsake. I quickly discontinued this when I learned that this would cause me to get EVE mails alarming me to wardecs against those corps, which I had no business knowing. Your shareholders won't get corp mails, but they may get information you'd prefer not be cascaded. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Raderon	Posted - 2010.02.21 13:21:00 - [405] Hey everyone, I just have a question about wormhole selling. I've found an empty C4 with a static C5 that is literally packed full of sites (some 26 resource sites with 24 combat sites). The static today is a C5 Pulsar that doesnt have nearly as many sites but might have a better entry way.. I guess all I'm asking is which would be better to try to sell? I don't know much about wormhole markets et al but the C4 would appear better to me.. then again I may be wrong.
Capheira	Posted - 2010.02.25 21:51:00 - [406] Hey, When trading, would it be best to invest heavily in one item stock or spread it across a large number of different items? After observing the market it's clear that there are huge buy orders up and it either shows they're really rich or trying to take advantage on that item in particular. Thanks.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.02.26 18:30:00 - [407] Originally by: Capheira Hey, When trading, would it be best to invest heavily in one item stock or spread it across a large number of different items? After observing the market it's clear that there are huge buy orders up and it either shows they're really rich or trying to take advantage on that item in particular. Thanks. I suggest spreading your trade amongst multiple items... and believe me, most of those people are doing the same. (They're just filthy filthy rich). Originally by: Raderon Hey everyone, I just have a question about wormhole selling. I've found an empty C4 with a static C5 that is literally packed full of sites (some 26 resource sites with 24 combat sites). The static today is a C5 Pulsar that doesnt have nearly as many sites but might have a better entry way.. I guess all I'm asking is which would be better to try to sell? I don't know much about wormhole markets et al but the C4 would appear better to me.. then again I may be wrong. I would suggest selling the C4 - a static C5 beats selling an actual C5, imho. --------------------------------- Regarding high-sec mining: Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.03.06 18:35:00 - [408] What's a good app for handling audit logs? Been germinating an idea for my corp and involves massive audit logs, so I would need a good app to handle them, no way I could do it just by looking at them. Best bet would be something that would give me a .mdb file. I don't think EWA does this, which is where I get my db files from right now. Any thoughts?
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.03.06 23:52:00 - [409] another question. Is it possible to dump the historical market data tables (not the graph, the table). If not thats simply ridiculous. I mean, I could write them down....but damn that would take forever.
Cyaxares II Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.03.07 08:27:00 - [410] Originally by: Tehg Rhind another question. Is it possible to dump the historical market data tables (not the graph, the table). If not thats simply ridiculous. I mean, I could write them down....but damn that would take forever. yes
Tehg Rhind	Posted - 2010.03.09 04:29:00 - [411] Awesome stuff. Anyone have any clues on the Audit logs? I am trying to set up a centralized item dump for some friends, but I need to be able to handle the audit logs outside of game. Right now I am trying to do this with some pretty lame Access manuevers, but I am afraid I am loosing data points. Would really appreciate it if someone could help me find an app for this. Otherwise my corpies are going to kill me....
Mingus Sin	Posted - 2010.03.16 20:07:00 - [412] IPO question. When someone starts a bond and offers so many shares at a certain price, does that person actually issue shares in game or do they just keep track of all the shares and who owns them to pay the dividends? Thanks
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.03.19 19:59:00 - [413] Both methods are used. Each has pros and cons. Generally, a shell corporation is set up and all shares are issued to investors. Dividends can then be paid using the corp interface. Shares can also be sold directly by shareholders. Some people prefer to maintain a virtual share ledger and make manual payments.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.03.23 09:41:00 - [414] Edited by: Grozen on 23/03/2010 09:41:50 Like me Varo manual payments are ftw:P A stupid question is there a person in eve that is close to having Quadrillion knowledge is power
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.03.24 00:48:00 - [415] Originally by: Grozen Is there a person in EVE that is close to having a quadrillion ISK? Unless someone represents that they are close to having a quadrillion ISK, and passes some type of verification, we're stuck with conjecture. So here's some speculative number-crunching, which I'm sure others can improve upon, that points toward the answer 'no': 1. ISK per se In the QEN for 2009-Q2, it was reported that there was '300 trillion ISK on all accounts within EVE, of which 170 trillion are on active paying accounts'. In the QEN for 2009-Q1, it was reported that 'average ISK per active account' had reached 'about 500 million ISK' and that there were '265,000 total accounts'. This lets us estimate that there was roughly 133 trillion ISK on active accounts then. Extrapolating from 133 TISK in 2009-Q1 through 170 TISK in 2009-Q2 (27.8% growth per quarter) would put the total across active accounts today at around 350 TISK. There's sure to be a bunch of ISK held by corporations, as well, and it's unclear whether or not that ISK was included in the above reporting. In theory, such corporate ISK could have been counted by attaching it to each CEO, for example. So for the sake of further exploration of your question (below), let's estimate total ISK in New Eden, in the form of ISK, at 360 trillion... ... even if someone had it all, that's not 'close to a quadrillion'. 2. Adding in assets Here things get messy. You immediately run up against the problem of knowing (with whatever degree of certainty you have about the estimate made in point 1) that any attempt to sell off a sufficiently large set of assets to push into 'close to a quadrillion' territory would be practically impossible. It you had, say a third of all ISK (120 trillion ISK) and you also had assets that, when appraised one-by-one were valued at amounts that add up to 500 trillion ISK, then you'd know that there simply isn't enough ISK for people to send you to fully charge those appraised prices (500 > 240). You could probably convert a lot of assets (though not some key ones, like T2 BPOs) to a lot of ISK through processes like insurance fraud [1] and (for some goods) sales to NPCs, but that would be a redonkulous undertaking for 500 TISK-worth of goods. Hence my suggestion that it would be practically impossible. The more assets you would sell to other players, the less ISK would remain to be spent on your remaining assets. You own sales would ultimately devalue your remaining assets (in ISK terms)... your 500 TISK in assets would be sold for less-than-500 TISK... ... and (120 TISK + less-than-500 TISK) is also not 'close to a quadrillion' ISK. TL;DR: 'No.' [1] An impressionable few might prefer the newspeak term 'insurance exchange rate' to 'insurance fraud', but on a ship-by-ship scale, the process is clearly a form of non-exploitive (from CCP's perspective) fraud (from the NPC insurer's perspective). By any common sense understanding of insurance, exploding your own ship to claim the insurance is fraud against the insurer. The insurer and insurance are no less real than the ship: all are virtual, in-game entities. á á
SkrepyKOKO	Posted - 2010.03.25 14:09:00 - [416] Hi, I would like to ask if there is application which shows what you have traded most, with most profits/most profitable items, per day, week, month, etc., sort of statistics of traded items per account. I looked for them but noone from them has function like this in their description. Thank you.
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2010.03.25 14:30:00 - [417] Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 25/03/2010 14:32:09 Originally by: SkrepyKOKO Hi, I would like to ask if there is application which shows what you have traded most, with most profits/most profitable items, per day, week, month, etc., sort of statistics of traded items per account. I looked for them but noone from them has function like this in their description. Thank you. Try EVE trader http://code.google.com/p/evetradercs/ EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. "
SkrepyKOKO	Posted - 2010.03.25 14:58:00 - [418] I see that I forget to mention that I am looking for that app as station trader, without need to search for trade routes, found few now, going to try them, maybe if you have advice which is the best one available atm. Thank you.
Mathrin	Posted - 2010.03.30 18:48:00 - [419] I am interested in buying an Navy issue Omen but I don't know where to begin. where can i find the price and possibly a seller?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.03.31 01:10:00 - [420] Originally by: Mathrin I am interested in buying an Navy issue Omen but I don't know where to begin. where can i find the price and possibly a seller? There is a whole section of the forum where you could post a 'Want Ad': Want Ads & Trades, if you want to post to try to find a seller. Faction ships and modules are sold by Contract in-game, not on the Market, so you could try a search for such ships in the Contracts window. Beware of scams, such as pilots wanting to direct-trade you or contract you a regular Omen that has simply been named 'Omen Navy Issue'. Prefer contracts, examine the ship carefully, look closely at its 'Show Info' window, and don't rush to close a deal. Judging by Jita Local, regular ships named to look like faction ships are used more commonly for attempted frauds than are many other SKUs. á á
Grozen Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:01:00 - [421] I've always been wondering how dangerous can reactions be?On paper they look easy to make and does not require much tending but how full is the market?I noticed that few items are oversupplied.Obviously it has to be in 0.3 system so my question is are there "quiet" 0.3 systems or everything gets camped once in a while. knowledge is power
Dratic Reaper Industries Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.04.24 10:35:00 - [422] Edited by: Dratic on 24/04/2010 10:35:43 Originally by: Grozen I've always been wondering how dangerous can reactions be?On paper they look easy to make and does not require much tending but how full is the market?I noticed that few items are oversupplied.Obviously it has to be in 0.3 system so my question is are there "quiet" 0.3 systems or everything gets camped once in a while. The market for reactions has dropped in profitability quite a bit as supply has met increased demand from dominion. Theres still isk but theres a slower rate of return on it. Risk wise it depends where you put your tower if it is on an empty moon in a quiet spot it probably won't get touched. Theres always a risk of it getting attacked so you may want to write off the tower from the start and hope you're lucky. Most of the risks are going to be with the ships you are transport the stuff in and out. Just take the normal approach to low sec, have a scout or use something cloaky.
Jo'Din Karrasso	Posted - 2010.04.24 12:25:00 - [423] Hey all, I'm just starting out trading NPC trade goods, and I was wondering if there is a list anywhere of which corp sells which trade good. Put together by trade good that is. Example: Garbage sold by: Corp A Corp B Quafe sold by: Corp C Corp D etc. Anyone know of a list like this? Or a way to pull the information from the database?
Ultralord Megaforce	Posted - 2010.04.25 15:21:00 - [424] A private item exchange contract expired between me and an alliancemate; do I have to delete the contract in order to get the items back?
Jasper Grimpkin Trader's Academy MPA	Posted - 2010.04.26 09:07:00 - [425] yes, yes you do.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.29 08:13:00 - [426] I saw a website once that was like the invention calculator. It required a fee but i don't remember it's name.
Demihemi	Posted - 2010.04.30 01:30:00 - [427] hrmm ok im having a hard time understanding this topic http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1309597 or is it a scam cuz im kinda thinkin that
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.04.30 19:15:00 - [428] Originally by: Demihemi hrmm ok im having a hard time understanding this topic http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1309597 or is it a scam cuz im kinda thinkin that It's a share auction. Ray is selling AATPH shares. Generally how those work is you bid on how many shares you want and at the price you want to bid. No it's not a scam.
Crobain Stalker Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.05 14:50:00 - [429] If an item i'm selling on the Marketplace doesn't sell, when is it returned to my items in the station? thanks
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Silvermane Enterprises	Posted - 2010.05.08 16:48:00 - [430] It's returned on the next downtime after your order expires. Regarding high-sec mining: Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
Ussdevilson	Posted - 2010.05.14 03:54:00 - [431] ok hi all i wanted to ask,i have plex that i want to sell,i redimd it to one place redimd it back and tryd to put it in jita but it wont let me can any one tell me haw do i do this or what should i do ? tnx .
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.15 20:14:00 - [432] Total assumption here but I would think that CCP was smart enough to make it so that you can not move it. After all, that is one of the key limitations to Plexes - the inability to move them around. If you could reverse redeem a plex and then move it around - not much of a limitation is it? Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Ussdevilson	Posted - 2010.05.16 03:49:00 - [433] Originally by: Shar Tegral Total assumption here but I would think that CCP was smart enough to make it so that you can not move it. After all, that is one of the key limitations to Plexes - the inability to move them around. If you could reverse redeem a plex and then move it around - not much of a limitation is it? well haw do i do that ?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.05.16 22:27:00 - [434] Originally by: Ussdevilson well haw do i do that ? Sorry, let me say it simpler for you. You can't. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Deadspaced	Posted - 2010.05.17 13:49:00 - [435] Hi all, I'm getting into trading more seriously after dabbling for a while. I export my active orders and market captures using the button on the UI but it seems to drop it in a text file. I'm looking to use it to populate spreadsheets, is there another way to export to spreadsheet or will I need to manually copy the text into spreadsheet format? I will be using other software but tracking these via spreadsheet is also handy. Best Regards
Chick'n Nugget	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:49:00 - [436] I plan on taking some time off from eve due to other obligations. I was wondering what happened to my market orders when I cancel my account. Do they simply disappear until I reactivate my account, do they get canceled, or do they exist until they expire (or some other outcome that I did not think of)?
ManicEye	Posted - 2010.05.25 02:44:00 - [437] Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they will continue to exist until they expire or are filled.
Chick'n Nugget	Posted - 2010.05.25 12:41:00 - [438] Thank you, manic. Someone said a similar thing elsewhere, but they were not sure either.
Nobjuice	Posted - 2010.05.25 20:36:00 - [439] Hi there, probably a bit of a dim question to follow: How do I remotely sell now I have the Marketing Skill? I can't seem to make a sell order outside my current location (I have trained to Marketing 2 so am trying to do this in the same system across different stations). Thanks
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.05.26 01:12:00 - [440] If you go into your Assets window and find the item you want to sell, you should be able to sell it from there.
Generic Civire3948	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:41:00 - [441] Hi, How much is a platinum + sulfuric acid moon worth, and how would I go about selling one? Any threads related would be welcomed.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente League of Gentlemen	Posted - 2010.05.28 17:00:00 - [442] Originally by: Generic Civire3948 Hi, How much is a platinum + sulfuric acid moon worth, and how would I go about selling one? Any threads related would be welcomed. Are you simply offering to sell the location, or are you also offering it with a POS already set up and configured? Is it in low-sec or 0.0, how deep out, is it in NPC 0.0 or somewhere with Sov... there are lots of variables. I would suggest using eve-search both on the S&I forum as well as the Sell Orders forum to see what data you can find there. Regarding high-sec mining: Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
Hasapis Gallente Mythical Creations	Posted - 2010.05.28 18:42:00 - [443] Originally by: Generic Civire3948 Hi, How much is a platinum + sulfuric acid moon worth, and how would I go about selling one? Any threads related would be welcomed. Sent you a message in-game. Thanks!
Aliia Raine	Posted - 2010.05.29 01:08:00 - [444] Hello, Just trying my hand at trading to make some money. I know the basic (buy low/sell high, etc) but was just wondering when looking at an item's info from the past X days, what does "Moving Avg (5d/20d) mean? Is that the number moved, or the average that the item moved for over that span of time?
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.05.29 20:43:00 - [445] Originally by: Aliia Raine just wondering when looking at an item's info from the past X days, what does "Moving Avg (5d/20d) mean? Is that the number moved, or the average that the item moved for over that span of time? The moving in "Moving Avg" refers to the time period being averaged. In this case, 5d/20d, its the last 5 or 20 days. Each new day, the period being averaged moves forward one day. It is also know as a rolling average, if that helps clarify anything. Each point on the 5d line is the average price for the last 5 days, and each point on the 20d line is the average price over the last 20 days. Moving Average - wikipedia link, in case my reply is not clear enough.
Aliia Raine	Posted - 2010.05.29 22:51:00 - [446] Thanks :)
MailDeadDrop The Collective	Posted - 2010.06.02 20:11:00 - [447] Additionally, the Donchian channel is the range of the highest and lowest actual sold prices() for the item over the last 5 days. MDD () the price at which the item was sold, not the bid/buy or ask/sell prices. Also note that CCP has some funky outlier exclusion rules that exclude some transactions.
PureMurder	Posted - 2010.06.04 01:33:00 - [448] Firstly, I like this thread. Secondly: I'm looking at the price data in market, and there's a very tall price that makes the rest of the graph useless. How do you filter out that element? I have attempted to set deviation on buy and sell to -35,35, but it doesn't fix the graph.
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2010.06.12 11:22:00 - [449] Here's a question I've been pondering a lot about. How does one determine if a solar system/station is good to sell stuff in when the market graph and statistics are region based? Atm I'm doing Jita-> Dodixie trading, buy low sell high (5-25%), but competition is high and many seem to undercut by tens of thousands isk at a time, sometimes going well below jita prices. But just not enough to warrant a trip to Jita and station trade/0.01isk game to get it sold there. I'm currently confined at 54 orders total on my main, while I await my alt to be ready for trading (good month from now). I'm having a blast trading, but some people seem hell-bent on completely destroying any profit margins.
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.12 18:20:00 - [450] Originally by: Guilliman R How does one determine if a solar system/station is good to sell stuff in when the market graph and statistics are region based? Depends on what you're moving. Some solar systems are hubs just because they are (people go where people go, historical reasons largely irrelevant), Jita a case in point. Otherwise, mission hubs will accept mission related gear and sell mission drops. If you're buying or selling mission gear look for high quality level 4 agent systems in a given region. Otherwise look for established hubs. Originally by: Guilliman R I'm having a blast trading, but some people seem hell-bent on completely destroying any profit margins. Best never to presume other people's intentions, they may know something you don't, they may just be looking for a quick sale, they may indeed be morons. Either way, they're getting the sales at your expense, fight harder or smarter :)
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:26:00 - [451] Originally by: Tekota Best never to presume other people's intentions, they may know something you don't, they may just be looking for a quick sale, they may indeed be morons. Either way, they're getting the sales at your expense, fight harder or smarter :) Thank you. I've tried saying this so many different ways I just finally thought to myself no one gets this. So thank you for stating this as I think if I tried to, yet again, I'd vomit. And Guilliman, you should check on that 'know something you don't' angle. Of all the options, that is the one that will hurt you worst if it is indeed the case. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2010.06.13 18:49:00 - [452] Alrighty, thanks for the answers :) Still a lot to learn but getting there.
Conspersa	Posted - 2010.06.16 11:51:00 - [453] Hey there, quick question If I may? I have blueprints for Covetor, I checked the market at Amarr and there is 1 buyer for 522mil, I wish to sell to that buyer the blueprints, however when I click (either left or right click) on the buy details it will not give me an option to sell to the buyer, or any information obout the player so i can contact him directly. I have only been playing just over a month so please excuse my 'noobness', but could anyone please tell me how I can sell the Covetor blueprints to this buyer? Many thanks in anticipation.
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:56:00 - [454] Originally by: Conspersa Hey there, quick question If I may? I have blueprints for Covetor, I checked the market at Amarr and there is 1 buyer for 522mil, I wish to sell to that buyer the blueprints, however when I click (either left or right click) on the buy details it will not give me an option to sell to the buyer, or any information obout the player so i can contact him directly. I have only been playing just over a month so please excuse my 'noobness', but could anyone please tell me how I can sell the Covetor blueprints to this buyer? Many thanks in anticipation. The first time you use the blueprint (for production runs or by doing ML/PL research on it) it becomes unpacked (i.e. in EVE's database it goes from being a "generic Covetor Blueprint" to being "Conspersa's very special Covetor blueprint"). You can only sell packaged BPOs on the market and there is no way to repackage a BPO. You can easily check if that's the cause of your problem by looking at the BPO's picture in your hangar - if it has the quantity indicator "1" still in the bottom right corner it is packaged, if not it has been unpacked and can only be sold via the contracts system.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.16 15:02:00 - [455] Originally by: Conspersa I have only been playing just over a month so please excuse my 'noobness', but could anyone please tell me how I can sell the Covetor blueprints to this buyer? The repack/unpack advice is good but I've a question for you. Are you trying to sell an original blueprint or a blueprint copy? Mind you I'm not asking because of the differences between BPO & BPC. Mostly because wtf is a 1 month self proclaimed noob doing with a covetor BPO? Mind you being 1 month old is a good reason for not knowing about pack/repackage conventions. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Uverig	Posted - 2010.06.20 12:32:00 - [456] Sorry if this question seems stupid but i havent been playing for very long. I recently put a couple items up for sell in Jita, how will i know when the item is purchased and when or how do i receive the isk for the sell that had occured.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.21 01:42:00 - [457] Originally by: Uverig Sorry if this question seems stupid but i havent been playing for very long. I recently put a couple items up for sell in Jita, how will i know when the item is purchased and when or how do i receive the isk for the sell that had occured. If you have default settings on your wallet (most people do) your wallet will flash when a sale goes through. (Of course it'll flash for most changes as well.) You can check your journal or orders for any updates. (I prefer journal myself) As to when you'll get the isk, as the sale goes through. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Tenn Graneet	Posted - 2010.06.22 14:39:00 - [458] I recently bought some npc goods and selled them in other region for a good profit. When I started this there was couple hundred thousand units available, I bought some of them and I guess someone other the rest since that supply is all gone. I was wondering when I start to see new sell orders for that stuff because last 3 days there's practically none and those few sell orders that are there are much higher price than previously making same trade run unprofitable. When I checked price history it showed quantity was 100k-200k for every day until it dropped to practically zero after bought some of that were available. I thought npc goods are available some what steadily. There's 3 or 4 buy orders and mine also the highest, which I put at roughly the same price I previously paid. I hope someone can explain this to me :) I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain here...
Dr Nefarius	Posted - 2010.06.24 21:45:00 - [459] Originally by: Tenn Graneet I recently bought some npc goods and selled them in other region for a good profit. When I started this there was couple hundred thousand units available, I bought some of them and I guess someone other the rest since that supply is all gone. I was wondering when I start to see new sell orders for that stuff because last 3 days there's practically none and those few sell orders that are there are much higher price than previously making same trade run unprofitable. When I checked price history it showed quantity was 100k-200k for every day until it dropped to practically zero after bought some of that were available. I thought npc goods are available some what steadily. There's 3 or 4 buy orders and mine also the highest, which I put at roughly the same price I previously paid. I hope someone can explain this to me :) I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain here... The latest addition in eve, planetary interaction (PI) enables pilots to run small production colonies on planets. This production results in some products that used to be sold and bought by NPC orders. Those sell/buy orders where removed about a week ago. Note that not all NPC orders where removed, just the ones now available to manufacture in PI.
Chomondeley	Posted - 2010.06.28 22:28:00 - [460] Hello Good Folk of The MD Forum. Some advice/help if you will? A colleague and I are wanting to Invest some Isk, nothing too major, say a couple of Bill. What we are looking into is possibly investing this in Bonds. Now, We may well do a little research, in order that we dont get burnt by the scam monkey, but is there a reputable Bond or IPO service that we can look into? Both my colleage and I are Lazy, too lazy to buy/sell/haul etc, besides we're too busy having fun, so we figure we'd like our isk to grow/work at a sensible pace but enough to allow us to continue having fun. Any Thoughts and advice would be most welcome. Thank you.
Marshiro	Posted - 2010.06.29 03:03:00 - [461] A few questions: 1. Can you create a buy order for rigged ships? Say a order of tri-ccc raven or something. 2. When your margin trade buy orders gets wiped out due to insufficient wallet, how can you tell which order is being taken out? Is it displayed in the wallet info somewhere? 3. Where do killboard module values come from, as there appears to be no eve-central for luxury items? Or are they hard coded from some master database that someone collected over time and actually does not follow the market closely. 4. Is there a master list of known scammers and their previous acts somewhere? How about a list of pirates that don't honor their ransom demands? 5. If you package a courier contract inside another, can the courier still see inside of it? Can cargoscanners (from suicide gankers) scan them? (i've heard about the item inside can inside courier technique, but that doesn't work for things like, say a cruiser) Is there some combination of couriers and cans that is effectively peek proof? 6. Who the heck buys battleship t1 bpc at up to 10m each considering how, post insurance nerf, that there has to be a glut of unused battleship bpos around?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.06.29 12:10:00 - [462] Originally by: Marshiro 1. Can you create a buy order for rigged ships? Say a order of tri-ccc raven or something. No. Originally by: Marshiro 2. When your margin trade buy orders gets wiped out due to insufficient wallet, how can you tell which order is being taken out? Is it displayed in the wallet info somewhere? Yes. There is this list of "orders". The order in question was there and then, as if by magic, it will no longer be there. Originally by: Marshiro 3. Where do killboard module values come from, as there appears to be no eve-central for luxury items? Or are they hard coded from some master database that someone collected over time and actually does not follow the market closely. A momma module meets an attractive daddy module. In time they have a few little modules. Some don't always grow up to be nice. That's where killboard module values come in. (Depends on the software as it is 3rd party to Eve. Equally, dissection or conversation about killboard package depends on the package & is not really for discussion here at EO.) Originally by: Marshiro 4. Is there a master list of known scammers and their previous acts somewhere? How about a list of pirates that don't honor their ransom demands? No. Many attempts to make one, there is even one that is supported, but with the fungibility of identity no list is going to be comprehensive. That's just scammers. Ransomers who do or don't is another list that isn't even being tried. Originally by: Marshiro 5. If you package a courier contract inside another, can the courier still see inside of it? Can cargoscanners (from suicide gankers) scan them? (i've heard about the item inside can inside courier technique, but that doesn't work for things like, say a cruiser) Is there some combination of couriers and cans that is effectively peek proof? This is one of those things you simply have to figure out for yourself. It isn't hard either. Mount up a cargo scanner and make the contract combinations. Why take our(my) word for it when you can do it yourself. Originally by: Marshiro 6. Who the heck buys battleship t1 bpc at up to 10m each considering how, post insurance nerf, that there has to be a glut of unused battleship bpos around? A customer who is either genius or a fool. The key thing to remember: it is a paying customer so why waste energy wondering and spend your time counting. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
MailDeadDrop The Collective	Posted - 2010.06.29 20:58:00 - [463] Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 29/06/2010 20:59:51 Originally by: Marshiro 1. Can you create a buy order for rigged ships? Say a order of tri-ccc raven or something. Originally by: Shar Tegral No. Allow me to elaborate on the "why" of Shar's answer. The answer is "no" but for reasons only tangentially related to the presence of the rigs. You cannot put up a buy or sell order for assembled (i.e. not "packaged") goods. So even an unrigged Raven could not be bought/sold via the market as long as it is assembled. This is also why used BPOs cannot be sold on the market: immediately prior to a BPO being used (manufactured with, researched, copied, ...) the system "assembles" the BPO. Unlike other assembled goods in Eve, there is no "repackage" option for BPOs. (Which is probably a good thing, otherwise we'd have piles of idiots/drunks screaming about the weeks of research time lost when they repackaged their researched ship BPOs...) Edit: which is exactly what Mme Pinkerton explained at the top of this page. /facepalm MDD
stannoman	Posted - 2010.07.01 06:07:00 - [464] I have a question concerning the market for traders on a specific level. I have now worked up my way and got 50million ISK. The regular trade goods however, seem not to be a good way anymore to trade, because theyre just too cheap products. I have 40mill capital, to buy things with, to trade, but what items should I look for specificly, now that the Trade Goods start to get too cheap to use the full capital for trade runs? Thanks in advance
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.07.01 17:19:00 - [465] Originally by: stannoman The regular NPC trade goods however, seem not to be a good way anymore to trade, because theyre just too cheap products. I added that part because I believe that is the trade activity that you are discussing. As such I'm going to gear my advice (opinion) from the perspective. (If I'm wrong, take it for what it is worth to you.) Firstly, this activity is usually looked upon as very low end trading. The only challenge is being the first one to get on the NPC's teat. Low Returns You did know that Prices are at their lowest just after DT right? This means that about 5 minutes after DT all the prices are jacked up to almost Max. The reverse is also true: First person to sell off after DT gets the bestest pricing as well. People tend to try to control this by setting up buy & sell orders so that when the market server (the CCP internal server) goes live they'll hopefully snatch product first. This makes it more about bilking the mechanics of the system instead of actually making economic plans/choices. (Mind you I've engaged in this as well - Don't make the world, do try to get by in it!) But I hope this part explains to you why margins are so thin. Also the thin margins are why few suggest it as a "good" activity. That being said, trading in player items tends to bring better margins however you have to be smarter instead of just earlier. I'd love to give you some advice but, truly, if I post it here the advice will be worthless shortly thereafter. You might have to dig in this thread or the market resources section of Evelopedia for primers on trading. This area has been well covered by many. Trying to tell you my own opinions about the matter, here, would simply generate misleading debate over something, like I said, already well covered again and again. In short, the whole teach a man to fish thingey. If you can't figure it out from what is available, none of us can really help you much. From deficiency in you or us who knows & truly who cares - just a simple truth. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.03 02:14:00 - [466] Originally by: Chomondeley A colleague and I are ... looking into investing [2B] in Bonds. Is there a reputable Bond or IPO service that we can look into? Offerings are thin on the ground at the moment. Rates vary from 2%-ish for the T4U IPO to 7%+ for a first time bond offering from a new face. There is no substitute for doing your own homework, and nobody to blame but yourself if the offering fails and you lose your money.
ameerkam47	Posted - 2010.07.04 04:56:00 - [467] Hi MD, long time reader here, I have a quick question. I got into trading a month ago and its too damn profitable, so profitable in fact that i have started a 2nd account dedicated to trading, and am interested in running a bond to expand for more iskies, how is that done. I have seen other threads about bonds, but is there a specific in game mechanic or is it once a month/week I send my investors their cash?
Arch Harley	Posted - 2010.07.04 22:00:00 - [468] Concerning trade routes - I'm looking to commit to trade routes with one of my characters. Specifically inter-region routes selling items that I can procure from market and move to another location and sell to buy orders for profit. Is this viable as a long-term plan? If so my question would be - is it possible to find consistent routes to provide a steady income? I'm not after any freebies or handouts - but I seem to be playing the guessing game between jita/amarr currently. I spend my day landing opportune items; selling tit and tat for profit as I stumble across it. This doesn't seem like the best use of my time - especially since most of my revenue is generated by pure luck/chance. Arch is currently flying a mammoth with CE-IIs and CH optimization rigs - but I'm struggling to consistently generate more than 30+ mil a day trawling the market and trying to catch trends on Eve-Central with roughly 500mil available to me. As a side note, I did spot a couple of items from the main hubs, but required incredibly large amounts of isk to generate a noticable profit (which isn't worth it in my indy ship). I don't want to get popped and have lose everything, which means splitting the hauls, effectively halting growth. I'm probably going around this the wrong way somewhere as I'm very new to this - but any tips/help would be most appreciated. Cheers, A.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.07.05 01:44:00 - [469] Bonds Advice Originally by: ameerkam47 I have seen other threads about bonds, but is there a specific in game mechanic or is it once a month/week I send my investors their cash? There are in game "shares" which can be sent to investors and used as a mechanism to distribute funds. Additionally some people like to simply manual manage who is invested and do the dividend payouts by hand. (I'm one of those!) There is no automatic payout mechanism. Trader Advice Originally by: Arch Harley Is this viable as a long-term plan? Yes Originally by: Arch Harley If so my question would be - is it possible to find consistent routes to provide a steady income? Not possible as there are too many variables. Originally by: Arch Harley I don't want to get popped and have lose everything, which means splitting the hauls, effectively halting growth. My preferred vehicle of gypsy trading is an Orca with cargo rigs. Go with an agility fit and an afterburner to sling you into warp faster. Cargo is vastly greater, the alternate cargo bays are very useful and hidden. It sounds like you are filling "demand" in one region with goods sold in another region. I, myself, call this gypsy trading. It tends to bring low profits unless there is some sort of lag in market adjustments. Filling buy orders empowers someone else, rarely will it empower you. Cross Region trading, which doesn't necessarily means you haul cargo(!!!), is all about acquisition elsewhere and resale in another region. Resale by listing your own standing sell orders, not by filling standing buy orders. The actual cargo hauling is often done via contract instead of the trader physically moving things from place to place. Usually the trader uses multiple clients to monitor regions of interest. This way he can buy & sell planning out his trading and simply set up couriers for others to handle. I hope that's enough advice for you, should get you to see other avenues along side your current activity. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.05 17:12:00 - [470] Originally by: ameerkam47 Is there a specific in game mechanic or is it once a month/week I send my investors their cash? Go for once a month - cuts your overhead down. You could set up a corp solely for the purposes of disbursing bond interest using the share dividend mechanism, but I doubt it would be worth the hassle for a short term bond. Doing it manually doesn't take much time. It was taking me 30 to 45 minutes a month to pay 36 investors.
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.07.05 17:29:00 - [471] Edited by: Varo Jan on 05/07/2010 17:29:46 Originally by: Arch Harley I'm looking to commit to trade routes with one of my characters. Specifically inter-region routes selling items that I can procure from market and move to another location and sell to buy orders for profit. Is this viable as a long-term plan? If so my question would be - is it possible to find consistent routes to provide a steady income? I'm not after any freebies or handouts - but I seem to be playing the guessing game between jita/amarr currently. I spend my day landing opportune items; selling tit and tat for profit as I stumble across it. This doesn't seem like the best use of my time - especially since most of my revenue is generated by pure luck/chance. Yes, it is a viable plan. Be prepared to settle for low margins, but make sure you turn your capital over daily. Products will change, routes will change. Do not rely on Eve Central. Do your own research. There was a guy in my old corp who had it down to a fine art. He'd spend a few days researching, then run a bond for a month or two by trading between two regions. Made a mint. He played smart. Quote: Arch is currently flying a mammoth with CE-IIs and CH optimization rigs - but I'm struggling to consistently generate more than 30+ mil a day trawling the market and trying to catch trends on Eve-Central with roughly 500mil available to me. As a side note, I did spot a couple of items from the main hubs, but required incredibly large amounts of isk to generate a noticable profit (which isn't worth it in my indy ship). I don't want to get popped and have lose everything, which means splitting the hauls, effectively halting growth. Hauling is great to start - it teaches you a lot of things about your regions. However, sooner or later you'll want to switch to courier contracts. It saves your time and moves the risk to the courier company. It's worth the cost.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.07.06 18:35:00 - [472] Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 06/07/2010 18:36:00 Withdrawn - replied to an old question which got long answered meanwhile. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.07.06 19:13:00 - [473] Originally by: Hel O'Ween Withdrawn - replied to an old question which got long answered meanwhile. Yeah but it is the variety of answers that sometimes makes for great win. Or laughter! Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Versoth	Posted - 2010.07.07 00:35:00 - [474] Hi, first time MD poster here, thought I've popped my head in to check things out from time to time. With my imminent departure for college, I figured the best and least time-consuming way to continue to make ISK was to make a manufacturing and research character (missions just take too much time) I asked around in my corp, a few of whom have done the same thing, and was referred to the wonderful tool that is EveHQ and the Prism tool. The only problem is that the prices were not updated. No problem, I thought, there is a simple way to get price updates that I've heard so much about. So I dug around and got to the price updating tab and updated faction prices from evehq.net with no problem. However, and I've noticed this before... Eve-Central is down. I realize that I'm probably apocalyptically late to the show on this one, but forums search sucks and I couldn't find any information on alternatives that wasn't from 2008. So I ask you, gods of the EVE market: How would I set up EveHQ to update market prices from a working source?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.07.08 13:22:00 - [475] Originally by: Versoth So I ask you, gods of the EVE market: How would I set up EveHQ to update market prices from a working source? I apologize for the delay in any response. I noticed your query shortly after you posted it. I do not use EVE-HQ at all myself. My clumsy research into the application itself yields little... ... zero information on how to resolve this, or almost any, issue with the application. I can't even tell if the application is being supported. I didn't want to sandbag you with this information which is why I did not post. I had hoped someone might have answered you with something better than what I've given you. Sadly, I think that perhaps there is no better answer. I just didn't want you to think you were ignored. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Bernard Schuyler	Posted - 2010.07.09 20:53:00 - [476] For someone brand new at trading, are there any tips on picking a station or stations to get your feet wet? I mean apart from the granted avenue of "research?" There are LOTS of stations so any kind of narrowing down helps :-p For example, are regional empire hubs someplace good to start looking?
Mark Democratic	Posted - 2010.07.09 21:29:00 - [477] Dissatisfied with all other careers in EVE ( and I've tried them all in my 3 years of playing) I have decided to try the only career I have not delved into, that also interests me the most...trading. Now, I like to think of myself as a smart person, give me a university math problem and I will solve it for you, but in regards to anything about markets, I am a complete IDIOT. I understand that the principle of Trading is "Buy Low, Sell High" so I have tried doing that, but its particularly hard to find sell orders that are low enough to sell to buy orders with a profit. Thus I come to my first set of questions. 1. Do I set up my own Sell Orders, as supposed to selling to buy orders? 2. Where Do I set up my Sell Orders, mission hubs, trade hubs, less-populated regions, maybe even low or null sec? Now I have heard of this fad called "station-trading", where ( In Jita at least) one micromanages his sell orders, since the competition will just undercut you by a penny every 5 minutes. Now, I cannot allocate the time required to "station-trade" in this manner, so my next question is... 3. How do I deal with competition (even when not station- trading, competition in general)? Another thing I have been wondering, is about these trade hubs. Whats the "trading rule" surrounding them, what I mean is... 4. Are trade hubs good place to get cheap goods, as the competition is high there. 5. And if #4 is true, then logically the outer, less populated regions are a good place to sell at higher prices? One thing thats REALLY been bugging me is with this new PI mechanic, and its effect on the market. I have read on the forum about people who, after PI came out, purchased alot of these commodities that used to be sold by the NPC stations at low prices, and now have sold them at higher prices (since the price of these commodities have gone up, due to the labor of pilots involved to extract them). People made billions off this. I never even thought of that. How does one predict things such as these. Another example, if two major alliances begin fighting eachother, will this effect the market, and how will I know which items it will effect. My big question here is... 6. How does one predict curves, trends and the overall changes in the market? (Any examples would be appreciated) But perhaps my biggest question yet, "What type of things should I trade?". Items with small volume? I have tried to sell Minerals like Zydrine in bulk, going from region to region, marking down the prices, and seeing if a buy order is higher than a sell order in another region, and selling like this to make a profit. But I havn't found that to be very successful, what else? Drones, ammo? Is this what traders make billions out of? I don't think so 7. What sort of things should a aspiring trader sell. I cannot say I am a rich person, I have always been very spendy. In my three years of playing, never have I had a wealth that exceeded 200mil. I hope to change that. At this moment I have around 100mil I am willing to invest in trading. And I am NOT willing to do PLEX. I would like to see if I can become a billionaire without resorting to PLEX ( kind of feels like cheating to be honest) Any help would be VERY well appreciated and recieved. Thank You
PinkFish	Posted - 2010.07.10 06:43:00 - [478] Originally by: Mark Democratic Stuff First off let me congratulate you on moving to this thread from the one you started. Showing a willingness to listen to what people say in MD is a refreshing change. It even makes me want to help you! The easiest way to get started as a trader in EVE is simply to apply the knowledge of all the little things you've picked up over years of playing. Few new traders have this luxury, so you have a considerable advantage in this regard. Every time you have been annoyed because something is not the way you would like, you had an opportunity to profit. Successful low time investment trading is 100% about figuring out how to monetize those annoyances, and doing so to the maximum amount possible. You won't find specific details here in MD. Anyone who tells you what to trade or how is trying to mislead you in some way. Similarly there is considerable uncertainty in EVE, so that questions related to what activities are best in hubs are a gamble at best. It's different for every item and the answer changes without warning from day to day. My only advice to you is a rehash of what I've just said. Stop trying to trade by following advice on these forums (except for mine! :)), and instead start trying to monetize your knowledge of EVE. You already know how the other professions work, so go make their lives more convenient for a small (large) fee. Good luck.
Helios Black Hellhounds. HellFleet	Posted - 2010.07.13 18:39:00 - [479] Originally by: Mark Democratic Now, I like to think of myself as a smart person, give me a university math problem and I will solve it for you, but in regards to anything about markets, I am a complete IDIOT. I understand that the principle of Trading is "Buy Low, Sell High" so I have tried doing that, but its particularly hard to find sell orders that are low enough to sell to buy orders with a profit. Thus I come to my first set of questions. Do the opposite, buy high and sell low. Place a buy order on the market that is .01 isk higher than the highest in station and then sell that for .01 isk lower than the lowest sell order in that station. Really works well in Jita. Originally by: Helicity Boson Maybe you should go play Uno with your mom so you can be "second winner" again.
Neighbourhood Spiderman Daily Bugle	Posted - 2010.07.19 09:17:00 - [480] Originally by: PinkFish Originally by: Mark Democratic Stuff More stuff Greetings and Salutations This is by far one of the best advice i have read in this thread and should be read by many as most MD Elitists wont share there market wisdom until it is too late for you to make any iskes from it. Sincerely Your Friendly Neighbourhood Spiderman
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.07.20 08:26:00 - [481] Originally by: Neighbourhood Spiderman This is by far one of the best advice i have read in this thread and should be read by many as most MD Elitists wont share there market wisdom until it is too late for you to make any iskes from it. Mind, I totally agree with you except for in the area I have marked in bold. Additionally, I can only speak for my own motivations on this but I think you are granting "MD Elitists" more credit, and less credit, then they deserve. Firstly, "MD elites" do not often work as a group in any fashion. What most people infer from the interaction is a more nefarious "unseen hand" then what actually tends to occur. Secondly, as many elites miss out on market opportunities as those that leverage them. By its very nature it is the opportunities that dictate the window in which to capitalize. Veterans of the market can almost instinctively pick up on changes. There is no "elites" only information network. Now to the idea about sharing of the information & advice: One common thing that can be said about all those who visit here, with earnestness, is that we all agree: Isk is power. If that is an agreed upon community axiom then it goes without saying, sharing power to just anyone is the height of idiocy. The giving of advice is a burden upon the giver. Honest brokers feel a sincere obligation to anyone who follows their advice. The list of things that can go wrong with such advice is numerous. Far better to teach people how to read the market and learn to decide for themselves then it is to give any direct advice. Originally I was going to break down the points into smaller ancillary points with finer shadings. Hopefully my choice to just shorten the whole matter is more effective for its brevity. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.21 19:45:00 - [482] Just wondering about this, someone did explain it to me once a long time ago, but I am not sure I can remember the details as to why it happens .. Lets say I have an item listed in a system for sale @ 1.5m each Why then do people pay me more than that for the item? Usually the same amount as the highest sell order in system? Twice today I have received 2.1m for something that's listed, by me, for 1.2m. Its not a bug so what causes it?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.07.22 00:15:00 - [483] Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Lets say I have an item listed in a system for [sale]. Why then do people pay me more than that for the item? Usually the same amount as the highest sell order in system? This and other common questions are answered briefly in the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia. Originally by: Market Discussions FAQ Why do people sometimes pay more than my asking price when I was asking the lowest price? Recall that the best order is always matched first. They might have right-clicked the second-best (or some other) order, but the transaction processing system matched their bid to your order. [Emphasis added.] Further explanation As a convenience, when the buyer right-clicks an ask in the Market window and chooses "Buy This", the dialog box for the creation of his or her own bid is pre-populated with the item type, location and price of the order clicked. (To change the location or price for their bid, the person would need to expand the "Buy" dialog box to the "Advanced" dialog box by clicking the appropriate button on the default "Simple" buy dialog box.) If the person right-clicked an order with a non-minimum price and then submits his or her bid at that higher price, he or she is expressly choosing to offer extra ISK beyond what is demanded by the minimum ask. The notional "Broker" then executes the trade as submitted, rather than proactively saving the buyer ISK by adjusting the bid to match available orders. (The implemented order-matching mechanism is an element of market policy determined by CCP.) Sometimes people will do this on purpose, e.g., someone might use the Advanced dialog box to enter an "Immediate" duration bid (using this duration avoids Market Order Broker Fees) for many units of an item at a higher-than minimum price to scoop up all the units that are spread across a score of smaller-volume asks, rather than clicking on each ask individually. This costs the buyer some extra ISK but saves some time. á á
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.22 01:46:00 - [484] Ahh right now I get it. Many thanks for explaining and for the links. Some good readin'.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.07.29 19:22:00 - [485] Originally by: Bernard Schuyler For someone brand new at trading, are there any tips on picking a station or stations to get your feet A quick glance at the market gives you a good starting point. - Open the market. - Go through a dozen or so items commonly used, like Rifter, Drake, Damage Control II, Large Shield Extender II, Ogre II ... you get it. Adjust the list to the type of goods you'd like to sell (minerals, cap production parts, <your trading field>) - Take note of the system(s)/station(s) where most (both number of orders and volume) of them are sold. - Pick the station that seems to be the best for your trading wishes. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Marshiro	Posted - 2010.07.30 07:47:00 - [486] Okay, new question. 1. Is there some way you can improve the speed of loading orders in the market window and computing averages in the price window? Some folks are giving me numbers like 30minutes to update a tycoon V worth of orders, but my experience in jita requires me to wait some 10~20 seconds to have everything loaded more often than not. Is this a bandwidth problem, client problem or server problem? 2. What do you do when evemon is clogged up with more than a quadrillion orders or something? Is there a way to clear the history (okay, maybe i should ask in Battleclinic, but i figure folks of MD probably face this issue a lot) and make it run faster?
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.07.30 11:14:00 - [487] Originally by: Marshiro Okay, new question. 2. What do you do when evemon is clogged up with more than a quadrillion orders or something? Is there a way to clear the history (okay, maybe i should ask in Battleclinic, but i figure folks of MD probably face this issue a lot) and make it run faster? You might want to try a dedicated trader tool like EMMA, EVE Trader, EVE Meep, (bias alert:) EVEWalletAware etc. The Market Resources wiki lists some apps along with the link to their web site or EO forum thread. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Dino2d	Posted - 2010.07.30 20:36:00 - [488] Is there a way to see the demand in a single solar syste or station that is in the same region as you are. For example i am traveling from Arant to Vale( Both in same region) and i want to check what is in demand in Vale but i dont wanna waste time browsing through all products from which some are not in demand on Vale. Thank you Dino
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2010.07.31 01:00:00 - [489] Originally by: Marshiro 1. Is there some way you can improve the speed of loading orders in the market window and computing averages in the price window? Cache cleaning helps this. Originally by: Dino2d Is there a way to see the demand in a single solar system or station that is in the same region as you are. No. Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame.
Blatantly Obvious	Posted - 2010.07.31 14:23:00 - [490] Hey, I'm curious about what industrial to train for, on the way to getting into perhaps a freighter at some point. I also wonder if the gallente freighter undocks more easily than the other races due to its vertical size. :)
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici Alliance	Posted - 2010.08.04 17:34:00 - [491] Originally by: Blatantly Obvious Hey, I'm curious about what industrial to train for, on the way to getting into perhaps a freighter at some point. I also wonder if the gallente freighter undocks more easily than the other races due to its vertical size. :) Can't really go wrong with Gal industrial - by far and away the best T1 indy when levelled to skill V and a spacious well rounded freighter. If you're only interested in training a T1 indy to skill IV then the Min Mammoth is your best bet; Min also have a very handy blockade runner for wormholes (2 high slots), but the smallest freighter (albeit the most "nimble") if you were to take Min indy to level V. Truth be told there's not a whole lot of difference in the freighters, but the T1 level V gal indy is good enough to sway the choice in many cases to gallente. Really not sure if any dock easier or not - though my observations are it makes naff all difference. Amarr make the prettiest freighter tho :o)
Lucyna Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.08.06 18:03:00 - [492] It's usually worth it to train to Amarr Industrial I to get the Bestower, truely the best bang for the SP required. From there you can train other races (Minmatar and Gallente are good), but if you are taking the path to Freighter, it doesn't really matter what the best bang for your SP is, because you are committed to taking Industrial to level V anyway. Comparison (remember, all get 5% increase in cargo and velocity per level) Unskilled: Frenir: Max Velocity 80 m/sec Mass 820,000,000 kg Capacity 720,000 m3 Obelisk: Max Velocity 65 m/sec Mass 940,000,000 kg Capacity 750,000 m3 Providence (soooo pretty) Max Velocity 70 m/sec Mass 900,000,000 kg Capacity 735,000 m3 Charon: Max Velocity 60 m/sec Mass 960,000,000 kg Capacity 785,000 m3 So, if you are not planning on having others web you to instawarp, then the Fenrir is your best bet; it's much smaller mass makes it more agile. You also might want to read this. Why not to buy a Freighter
PureMurder	Posted - 2010.08.06 21:28:00 - [493] Firstly, awesome answers and thanks! And I agree, the providence is beautiful -- could be the determining factor in choosing ships when the difference in performance is so small. Sorry about my response here, not trying to be a know-it-all but... well there aren't many people you can discuss these things with so... :) The suicide formula could have included the mod drop rate of the suiciding ships, if you have time to scoop that up (% based for how often it gets looted before you can get to it or whatever). Also, I think you might be able to exceed the profitability line a little because it would be hard for people to justify killing you for like 1 ISK if you went 1 isk over. Doing a little self-trading-hauling between bordering regions, I've decided that there isn't actually much isk to be gained by doing so. Finding a route that will make 1m/trip is actually pretty hard and the time just isn't worth it. It's entirely possible that I'm "doing it wrong", so any comments here are appreciated (how to find a route). Currently I'm just going off eve-central, uploading market data and looking for trades region to region or intra-region. I find also that it's very hard to determine what trades involve me going into low sec. Just curious - I figure that the most popular races for suicide gankers = amarr and minmatar but I'm not sure. Any comments on that? Further, I'm looking for some indy software that will let me calculate the reprocess values of different items in the game so that I can trade better. Any help here would be greatly appreciated!
EdwardNardella Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2010.08.08 18:19:00 - [494] I suspect that this question may be acceptable in its own thread but I figured I would ask here first. I am looking for systems with a high trade volume but are not in the top 10 most populated systems. In other words, what systems are market hubs that aren't listed here: 1 Jita 2 Rens 3 Amarr 4 Dodixie 5 Oursulaert 6 Motsu 7 Arnon 8 Hek 9 Akiainavas 10 Penirgman CCRES is recruiting pilots who want to live in WSpace/Wormholes. Fill out an application here!
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.08.09 01:11:00 - [495] Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 09/08/2010 01:13:01 Secondary mission hubs like Lustrevik. Entry (or near-entry) systems to 0.0 like Esescama or Orvolle. But of course "high trade volume" is a relativ term. Compared to all four major hubs, the volumes aren't really high. Compared to some low sec dead end out in the void, on the other hand ... -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Kei Darker	Posted - 2010.08.10 01:58:00 - [496] Hello Hello. Just a quick question. I feel like it isn't worth making a new thread for, so I'll just put it here. Here it is: What is a good calculation for what price I should sell a blueprint copy at once I manufacture it? I have a few BPOs and I've researched some ME into a few of them and would like to start copying away and selling. I'm relatively new to eve and looking to start this business venture, but am not sure what prices I should be selling BPCs at once I make them and trying to figure if it would be better to make the BPCs or just use the BPOs to make ships and sell them. Thanks in advance.
Lucyna Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.08.10 04:25:00 - [497] Another question... I've heard that people at the top end of the trade money-makers are either using or manipulating markets that are contract only (like faction ships). Is there some strategy or does it just take a crapload of capital and some manipulation to make the ISK in these markets?
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.08.11 04:37:00 - [498] Originally by: Kei Darker What is a good calculation for what price I should sell a blueprint copy at once I manufacture it? Try this recent thread in Science and Industry: Linkage
Serene Python	Posted - 2010.08.19 21:45:00 - [499] So I've wanted to mess about with the market for a while. Been buying goods from a mission hub and selling stuff there as well... I got the hang of testing the waters but I'm only making roughly 1-2m profit a day so I'm wondering what else I need to do to be able to make much more than this. I've got almost 100m just sitting in my wallet that I'm unsure of how to use to make more isk. Suggestions?
Lucyna Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.08.19 22:04:00 - [500] Originally by: Serene Python So I've wanted to mess about with the market for a while. Been buying goods from a mission hub and selling stuff there as well... I got the hang of testing the waters but I'm only making roughly 1-2m profit a day so I'm wondering what else I need to do to be able to make much more than this. I've got almost 100m just sitting in my wallet that I'm unsure of how to use to make more isk. Suggestions? Seems like it's time to expand to other places. Look at the hubs prices. Their sell orders might not be as high as some of the mission hubs, but what you lose in margins you make up for in volume. Also, you can try branching out into different regions as well. Check eve-metrics.com for pricing around Eve.
Serene Python	Posted - 2010.08.20 00:42:00 - [501] Originally by: Lucyna Originally by: Serene Python So I've wanted to mess about with the market for a while. Been buying goods from a mission hub and selling stuff there as well... I got the hang of testing the waters but I'm only making roughly 1-2m profit a day so I'm wondering what else I need to do to be able to make much more than this. I've got almost 100m just sitting in my wallet that I'm unsure of how to use to make more isk. Suggestions? Seems like it's time to expand to other places. Look at the hubs prices. Their sell orders might not be as high as some of the mission hubs, but what you lose in margins you make up for in volume. Also, you can try branching out into different regions as well. Check eve-metrics.com for pricing around Eve. I actually am avoiding trade hubs cause of the 0.01 isk wars. I'll check out moving the goods out to other mission areas, anything else I could try doing as well?
Lucyna Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.08.20 16:41:00 - [502] Originally by: Serene Python Originally by: Lucyna Originally by: Serene Python ... ... I actually am avoiding trade hubs cause of the 0.01 isk wars. I'll check out moving the goods out to other mission areas, anything else I could try doing as well? Typically you can find higher buy prices than your buy prices at hubs, or you can ship your items to hubs and list them right in the middle of buy and sell orders to move them quickly at hubs, no 0.01 isking. This is more true of Sell than it is of buy orders at hubs. You could set up more buy orders around other mission hubs. If you still aren't getting the volume you want, go ahead and find other items or move into another station.
Serene Python	Posted - 2010.08.24 02:47:00 - [503] Originally by: Lucyna Originally by: Serene Python Originally by: Lucyna Originally by: Serene Python ... ... I actually am avoiding trade hubs cause of the 0.01 isk wars. I'll check out moving the goods out to other mission areas, anything else I could try doing as well? Typically you can find higher buy prices than your buy prices at hubs, or you can ship your items to hubs and list them right in the middle of buy and sell orders to move them quickly at hubs, no 0.01 isking. This is more true of Sell than it is of buy orders at hubs. You could set up more buy orders around other mission hubs. If you still aren't getting the volume you want, go ahead and find other items or move into another station. Alright thanks will try this and see how I do.
Lillith Starfire	Posted - 2010.09.11 12:09:00 - [504] Sorry to ask noob question but how do bonds and loans work? I have been reading this forum with interest but can not find out how these things work. Is it just a case of people asking for 123 ISK and then it is up to them to repay the interest and the original amount? Or is there some kind of in game mechanism to enable all this? Do you have to be in a player corp?
Lucyna Minmatar Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.11 18:20:00 - [505] Originally by: Lillith Starfire Sorry to ask noob question but how do bonds and loans work? I have been reading this forum with interest but can not find out how these things work. Is it just a case of people asking for 123 ISK and then it is up to them to repay the interest and the original amount? Or is there some kind of in game mechanism to enable all this? Do you have to be in a player corp? The very basic of investments is you give your money to a player offering equity or bonds. They work in slightly different ways. Stock Bond One in-game mechanic for issuing return on investments is the dividend function, which can be used in the corporation window. To answer your question on having to be in a player corp, no you really don't. People pay out "manual dividends" by keeping track of who invested what amount then paying them out based on how much they've invested. You can see many examples of bonds and several examples of stock in the forum. Also, check out the eve wiki on investing in EVE. Remember, there are no secure bonds or IPOs (initial public offerings of stock), the people who run the investments can usually walk away with the entire investment at any time and pay out nothing, resulting in a total loss for you. _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;)
Samroski	Posted - 2010.09.15 11:39:00 - [506] What happens to market orders when you deactivate an account? Do they continue to buy and sell? Could one reactivate the account 3 months later and reap in profits on long term orders? :)
Taji Kann Caldari Bright Exports Ltd	Posted - 2010.09.16 06:52:00 - [507] Originally by: Samroski What happens to market orders when you deactivate an account? Do they continue to buy and sell? Could one reactivate the account 3 months later and reap in profits on long term orders? :) Yes and yes. Done that a few times. Unsubbed. Later re-subbed to fat wallet (and some filled/expired buy orders too). Your long term success with this depends of course on whether the market stays stable, falls or rises for a particular item and its volume movement.
gamarabi	Posted - 2010.09.17 11:19:00 - [508] Does anyone know of a thread that would point out stable public companies? If there isn't a thread could anyone make suggestions on good public companies to purchase shares in?
Imperator Principes Minmatar SSGS Marketing and Analysis	Posted - 2010.09.17 18:37:00 - [509] Originally by: gamarabi Does anyone know of a thread that would point out stable public companies? If there isn't a thread could anyone make suggestions on good public companies to purchase shares in? I would look at either the LLSE or the BSAC.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.09.17 19:53:00 - [510] Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 17/09/2010 19:53:20 Originally by: gamarabi Does anyone know of a thread that would point out stable public companies? If there isn't a thread could anyone make suggestions on good public companies to purchase shares in? Ironically, the Titans4U scam alert thread also list a couple of the successful past and current non-scamming business. Read from here. They're not all open for new investments now, though. But you might find some names to watch out for in the future. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Grey Wind	Posted - 2010.09.21 23:56:00 - [511] Most likely a newb question frequently asked. But I am looking into getting a trading alt going, and have absolutely NO bloody idea how all this trade ** works as far as people that make good money on it. Is there any group that teaches basics to people, a public channel new folks can go to in order to learn how to do this stuff...Basically anything to help me go from "I R NEWB" to "I know how this ** works"
Misha M'Liena Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.09.22 10:01:00 - [512] Grey wind. First off. Read. Then read some more. There's the stickies. In the stickies are Guides (novel concept reading guides on being a trader i know) Then read some more. You will learn alot. with regards Misha.
PinkFish	Posted - 2010.09.25 02:39:00 - [513] I'm looking at the profit potential of various moon material reactions and I'm trying to understand market pressures therefrom. Specifically I'm holding a medium sized stock of Fernite Carbide and I'm attempting to understand how it's price relates to some sort of equilibrium. When I cost out creating Fernite Carbide it yields a profit of ~680k per batch, putting it in the lower-middle of the field for profitability. Then I look at things like Nanotransistors which produce something like 1.6m per batch. My question is why is there so much resistance to price change on Fernite Carbide when market forces should push people away from creating it as fast as they do? Why do people react the less-profitable goods?
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente League of Gentlemen Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.09.27 01:44:00 - [514] Originally by: PinkFish I'm looking at the profit potential of various moon material reactions and I'm trying to understand market pressures therefrom. Specifically I'm holding a medium sized stock of Fernite Carbide and I'm attempting to understand how it's price relates to some sort of equilibrium. When I cost out creating Fernite Carbide it yields a profit of ~680k per batch, putting it in the lower-middle of the field for profitability. Then I look at things like Nanotransistors which produce something like 1.6m per batch. My question is why is there so much resistance to price change on Fernite Carbide when market forces should push people away from creating it as fast as they do? Why do people react the less-profitable goods? Have you considered folks who have the moons to produce Fernite Carbide, but perhaps lack the moons to make Nanotransistors? There may be a cost to exporting the "wrong" materials and/or importing the "right" ones. Alternately, there's the tried and true "not everybody figures out their profits" theory. DesuSigs
Deane Wispa	Posted - 2010.09.27 16:57:00 - [515] Edited by: Deane Wispa on 27/09/2010 16:59:49 What's the difference b/w Visibility skill and Procurement? I have Procurement level 3 which is only 10 jumps, but apparently I am able to place buy orders at region. Bug? Or did I misinterpret something?
Lucyna Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.09.28 19:39:00 - [516] Originally by: Deane Wispa Edited by: Deane Wispa on 27/09/2010 16:59:49 What's the difference b/w Visibility skill and Procurement? I have Procurement level 3 which is only 10 jumps, but apparently I am able to place buy orders at region. Bug? Or did I misinterpret something? Procurement is for changing the range at which you can set remot buy orders and visibility is for changing the range of buy orders that require procurement. If I wanted to set a buy order from eystur in frarn, i'd need procurement. If I wanted that order's range to be longer than station, i'd want visibility. Make sense? _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;)
Reason Devine	Posted - 2010.10.02 23:09:00 - [517] Sell orders/brokerage sysem My apologies for what is assuredly a basic question, but I cannot find an answer to it already in the forums. It concerns sell orders. I'm a very new player, and 3 times now I have put up sell orders, only to receive no money when the items are bought. I understand that if I put up an item for sale, and someone else has the same item for sale at a lower price, he is first in line for people who accept the item at my price. Ok... the problem is, I put the items up for sale and paid the broker fees, and yet when my sell order is finally fulfilled, the items are gone and I never see a cent! Do I not understand how the system works? Where is the incentive for me to sell at anything but the buyer's asking price if I'll never see the money from my sell? Thank you for any answers.
Calypsa Aeurelieus	Posted - 2010.10.02 23:34:00 - [518] Check your Journal. If it doesn't show a sale transaction it didn't sell. In which case you should check the "Deliveries" section of the station you were selling in, as that's where unsold items go after a sell order expires. :)
Reason Devine	Posted - 2010.10.03 00:13:00 - [519] That's just the thing. I set up the orders for 3 or 6 months (whichever the max is) and after only a few days, my orders no longer show up on my active orders. Yet, my wallet history does not show that I took in the money that I sold them for!
Lucyna Interstellar Killer Bee Enterprises	Posted - 2010.10.05 09:22:00 - [520] Originally by: Reason Devine That's just the thing. I set up the orders for 3 or 6 months (whichever the max is) and after only a few days, my orders no longer show up on my active orders. Yet, my wallet history does not show that I took in the money that I sold them for! Could be a downtime issue. See if you see the transaction after downtime, if it's not there, double check then petition. If it's a Buy Order, using Margin Trading, you may have insufficient funds to complete the transaction. You'll see a weird "release" journal entry in that case. _________ Eve - for when I'm not playing minecraft ;)
Cry Meariver	Posted - 2010.10.08 13:21:00 - [521] I have been looking around and havent been able to find a price for Raysere's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane. Anybody know what this is worth or where I can find out? Thanks -Tweedle Doo
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.10.08 23:33:00 - [522] Originally by: Cry Meariver I have been looking around and havent been able to find a price for Raysere's Modified Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane. Anybody know what this is worth or where I can find out? Thanks -Tweedle Doo You might want to try the forum section named Price Checks, or you might want to ask in one or more of the in-game trade channels, e.g., "Modules and Munitions". To broaden your search criteria, you might figure out if there are any other variations of that module with the same attributes (maybe one or more other officer variations, or maybe some deadspace variation), and see what prices you can find for those similar items. á á
Sin Meng Gallente Ronin Spectres	Posted - 2010.10.10 05:56:00 - [523] I'm taking some business classes at my college and we're about to get into discussion of economic models. In the odd chance I happen to bring EVE's model up, what would best describe it? I've heard terms like hypercapitalism, war economy, and such thrown around but I've never seen a formal fitting description for EVE's economy. I know its not a "real economy" but purely for the sake of understanding, I'd like to know.
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.10.10 17:26:00 - [524] Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 10/10/2010 17:29:52 I don't think there's a good answer to this question. IMHO the lack of complex industrial organization in EVE (from the players' POV; not considering RP explanations) is a good starting point to think about this topic, the extremely small role of service industries (tertiary sector) would be another thought worth considering. In my experience even large industrial outfits in EVE have at best the dimensions and degree of organization of medieval workshops, nothing comparable to the complexity required to operate factories (that became necessary with industrialization). If you want to force the structure of the EVE economy into some RL bracket, your result will probably vary depending on whether you class NPC interactions the same as interactions with other players or compare them to interactions with government instead. Keep in mind that a big part of durable capital assets (-> BPOs) is produced (out of thin air) and sold by NPCs.
Ivorr Bigun	Posted - 2010.10.19 10:02:00 - [525] Edited by: Ivorr Bigun on 19/10/2010 10:03:31 hi, Q. If there is a buy order up like the following: buy: 170,000,000 Q:21, min:21 is there a way of making it so this buy order will fail? Originally by: CCP Shadow bodily fluid
Nephelm	Posted - 2010.10.23 19:59:00 - [526] Probably asked a thousand times around here but let's say there is a station where everybody is selling and buying Drakes. If all the sellers decrease their price just to be the cheapest (and there are 100 sellers) how does the price rise? Does someone buy all the drakes and relist them or how?
Drab Cane Carbenadium Industries	Posted - 2010.10.25 04:01:00 - [527] Originally by: Nephelm Probably asked a thousand times around here but let's say there is a station where everybody is selling and buying Drakes. If all the sellers decrease their price just to be the cheapest (and there are 100 sellers) how does the price rise? Does someone buy all the drakes and relist them or how? People are buying items from sell orders faster than the items are being added. For example, Seller A puts up 100 items at 10 isk each. Seller B and C each put up 5 items at around 8 isk each. B and C compete with each other until their prices are close to 6 isk each. Buyer comes along and buys 50 items: 10 at close to 6 isk each. 40 at 10 isk each. Seller A is once again the lowest price at 10 isk. Take a look at the average daily volume of an item when working out your pricing strategy. ----------------------------------------------- - Who Dares, Wins
Nephelm	Posted - 2010.10.25 05:51:00 - [528] Edited by: Nephelm on 25/10/2010 05:54:11 I know this works for ammo and stuff that gets traded a lot but does it also work for +5 implants/expensive ships? I've been watching Jita lately, mostly +5 implants and a few days ago lowest for memory was 120mil and now it's 112. I seriously doubt someone is going to buy 50 implants so that the lowest would be again 120. LE : Highest buy is 109mil. So, will the buyers lower the price to keep the profit margin or will a wealthy player wait for prices to drop close to 110 and then buy them all up to 119 or close?
Rendini	Posted - 2010.11.05 02:35:00 - [529] Hi there! I have a question about buying items. I just recently started trading. I have a buy order placed over the region and got two of the same items in the same station. But they are separate. It looks like I have to place a separate sell order for each. Is there no way to remotely stack these items remotely?
Exuron	Posted - 2010.11.05 16:32:00 - [530] Are you sure they are in the same station and not in the same system? They are probably items that cannot be stacked if it is the same station. About stuff not updating, blame CCP and their new patch. "It will update after the next downtime".. lol
Rendini	Posted - 2010.11.14 03:21:00 - [531] Another newb question (this time about courier contracts) if a person accepts a contract with a pickup out in 0.0 does he automatically get access to the station in 0.0 the stuff is in?
Zia Pow Krazy Banana	Posted - 2010.11.14 04:28:00 - [532] Originally by: Rendini Another newb question (this time about courier contracts) if a person accepts a contract with a pickup out in 0.0 does he automatically get access to the station in 0.0 the stuff is in? No Ego - Epeen - Eve The 3 Amigos of the MMO world.
Daveion Steel Gallente 6thsense Corp Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.15 21:04:00 - [533] Well, some very useful tips on this sticky, I will leave impressed. However I have only read the first ten pages. Just in case it has not been mentioned already, you can use the mouse wheel to help you in your 0.001 isk wars. If that was already said, I must have missed it. Such a great comunity we have. Fly safe and Trade with risk and isk . "What's your honest opinion?" "The one thing I can never be wrong about."
DarthCaboose	Posted - 2010.11.19 09:39:00 - [534] Originally by: Rendini Another newb question (this time about courier contracts) if a person accepts a contract with a pickup out in 0.0 does he automatically get access to the station in 0.0 the stuff is in? As Zia pointed up above, winning a contract does not give the winner any more access to stations than usual. Any lucrative, too-good-to-be-true contracts that have extremely weird station names in 0.0 space should be approached with extreme caution. However, if the offer does seem genuine, you may want to try to get in contact with the contract owner and work out a way to re-assign the contract to a more secure location. Gentlemen's agreements are tenuous at best, but sometimes talking to the selling party can resolve the issue for the better. Then again, I've had my share of conversations where the seller of the contract was trying to convince me that, no, you can access any station in the game and that there is no limitation at all. Buyer beware!
DarthCaboose	Posted - 2010.11.19 09:50:00 - [535] Originally by: Sin Meng I'm taking some business classes at my college and we're about to get into discussion of economic models. In the odd chance I happen to bring EVE's model up, what would best describe it? I've heard terms like hypercapitalism, war economy, and such thrown around but I've never seen a formal fitting description for EVE's economy. I know its not a "real economy" but purely for the sake of understanding, I'd like to know. The ISK is, of course, fiat money. It is produced from external sources that provide funds to various users like with missions, pirate drops and more. It is destroyed through money sinks like sales taxes, broker fees, insurance and more. Perhaps even a devaluing of items as they progress through a production chain may count towards affecting the currency. Fiat money, given the opportunity, will quickly adopt whatever value its users believe items and ships should be, provided the user knows how to value things properly! I would categorize Eve Online as a specialization market with a large degree of separation between the different items; a lot of user effort is required to organize the data to determine connections between different products and figure out ways to exploit them. I've seen cases of market equilibrium occurring in cases where it shouldn't make sense (valuing Condensed Veldspar as higher than Dense Veldspar, is very common in smaller regional markets), but only because of human ignorance to how items are all connected together. Eve Online, to the average human being, is quite a complex game! Many of the huge profit margins I hear from traders should, no doubt, be attributed partially to taking advantage of people not knowing better or not spending the time to do the proper research about prices and everything.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.12.06 04:20:00 - [536] Happy 2 year birthday stickied thread.
DarthCaboose	Posted - 2010.12.08 08:19:00 - [537] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 Happy 2 year birthday stickied thread. So it is! May this thread prosper for the many more years to come! ... Seriously though, doesn't anyone else have any good market questions to ask?
Kutle	Posted - 2010.12.15 14:18:00 - [538] I have a question...... Why jita? as the bigest hub?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2010.12.18 07:14:00 - [539] Originally by: Kutle I have a question...... Why jita? as the bigest hub? See reasonable coverage of this issue in the Jita entry of the EVElopedia. A long time ago, a "highway" system of jump connections helped make Yulai the central trade system for the EVE universe, and Jita was only the leading Caldari second-tier hub. When the highway system was removed by CCP, Jita rose toward its current prominence. á á
Xolornem Srrpep	Posted - 2010.12.21 11:14:00 - [540] Can you open the packages on Courier contracts to see what's inside without failing the contract?
Tekota legion industries ltd Veni Vidi Vici Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:47:00 - [541] Originally by: Xolornem Srrpep Can you open the packages on Courier contracts to see what's inside without failing the contract? Yes. More discussion of the hows and whys of this can be found in this recent thread.
Euphoriiia	Posted - 2010.12.26 05:49:00 - [542] I've reached a certain point in my daytrading where the isk i'm making is relatively insignificant compared to the effort of updating a gazillion orders. What sort of mods should i be looking to play with if i have around 250m NAV and around 140m liquid? And is daytrading a viable option for a rtading career or do you need to eventually move into hauling to see big profits? Posted this in my own thread aswell, jsut trying to get the most answers i can, ty =)
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2010.12.29 07:31:00 - [543] Originally by: Euphoriiia I've reached a certain point in my daytrading where the isk i'm making is relatively insignificant compared to the effort of updating a gazillion orders. Markets are constantly shifting, it is quite normal that profitable markets attract more traders, increasing competition, decreasing profits, making traders move on, etc. You too should keep researching the markets to see when its time to move to other items/locations. Quote: And is daytrading a viable option for a rtading career or do you need to eventually move into hauling to see big profits? Of course it is viable. However hauling often enables bigger margins. Its a matter of assessing if the extra time/effort is worth it. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation.
Corcyrus Endymion Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming	Posted - 2010.12.29 19:54:00 - [544] Originally by: Aineko Macx Originally by: Euphoriiia I've reached a certain point in my daytrading where the isk i'm making is relatively insignificant compared to the effort of updating a gazillion orders. Markets are constantly shifting, it is quite normal that profitable markets attract more traders, increasing competition, decreasing profits, making traders move on, etc. You too should keep researching the markets to see when its time to move to other items/locations. Quote: And is daytrading a viable option for a rtading career or do you need to eventually move into hauling to see big profits? Of course it is viable. However hauling often enables bigger margins. Its a matter of assessing if the extra time/effort is worth it. Bigger margins and lower volumes. I think the only time it's worth hauling for your average trader is moving stuff between hubs. It's lovely you can sell for a 1000% mark up somewhere in the ass's end of New Eden, but with 1 unit sold a day, what would be the point. Except if the unit is worth billions there. Not that many of those out there though
Voldanus	Posted - 2010.12.31 07:30:00 - [545] Edited by: Voldanus on 03/01/2011 04:25:51
Kethas Protagonist	Posted - 2011.01.03 22:19:00 - [546] Hi everyone. Long time reader, first time poster, etc. etc. I picked EVE up for about three months in early 2010, had to leave, and am now testing the waters again. I was rather distressed to learn that EVE Metrics had closed its doors - I put their historical data to rather good use earlier, and I'd like to be able to do the same again. Two questions, one idle curiosity, one more relevant: 1) What's the story behind EVE Metrics closing? If I had to guess, I'd say the authors concluded they could make more money selling similar services in private vs. accumulating advertising revenue on the free site, but I'm not sure. Just curious. 2) Is there a replacement? Specifically, is there any way to access historical mean/median prices and trading volume, by good? I need to estimate demand curves to make market-entry and pricing decisions and without EVE Metrics, while I probably can still do so using EVE-Central's order history, it'd be a lot more work. Thanks in advance for your time.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.04 21:59:00 - [547] Originally by: Kethas Protagonist Hi everyone. Long time reader, first time poster, etc. etc. I picked EVE up for about three months in early 2010, had to leave, and am now testing the waters again. I was rather distressed to learn that EVE Metrics had closed its doors - I put their historical data to rather good use earlier, and I'd like to be able to do the same again. Two questions, one idle curiosity, one more relevant: 1) What's the story behind EVE Metrics closing? If I had to guess, I'd say the authors concluded they could make more money selling similar services in private vs. accumulating advertising revenue on the free site, but I'm not sure. Just curious. 2) Is there a replacement? Specifically, is there any way to access historical mean/median prices and trading volume, by good? I need to estimate demand curves to make market-entry and pricing decisions and without EVE Metrics, while I probably can still do so using EVE-Central's order history, it'd be a lot more work. Thanks in advance for your time. 1) They likely grew tired of it, it grew too demanding, they had alot of costs they claimed with no real way to pay for it except out of their own pockets....that sort of thing. Some good projects have died because there's very few ways to monetize a project like that to help pay for costs. 2) Eve-Central. That's it. Projects Blog
Chesty McJubblies Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2011.01.05 03:27:00 - [548] I've got a couple of questions; 1. What was your name before it was changed for you? 2. Do you like your new name?
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.01.05 03:56:00 - [549] Originally by: Chesty McJubblies I've got a couple of questions; 1. What was your name before it was changed for you? 2. Do you like your new name? I assume you're asking me. 1. NAMBLA, I was having some fun after watching the episode of south park on tv that made fun of the RL NAMBLA organization but I guess it was taken too literally and someone petitioned. 2. I wouldn't call it new, it's been this way for several years now. I've pretty much gotten used to how badass it is.
Ngwebs Universe	Posted - 2011.01.07 15:21:00 - [550] eve-central is down, is there any other website similar to this? TY guys...
Corcyrus Endymion Caldari Excessum Corporation Excessum Gaming	Posted - 2011.01.08 15:34:00 - [551] Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 08/01/2011 15:34:14 Originally by: Ngwebs Universe eve-central is down, is there any other website similar to this? TY guys... Read three posts up, with Hexxx stating there is just Eve-Central.
Grawenn	Posted - 2011.01.08 21:42:00 - [552] I messed up.. estimated when I should have calculated. I accepted a courier contract and ended up being a few cubic m's short of space for the package. I've re-contracted it to be picked up by someone else but times running out. What happens when the contract time runs out? I'll find out soon enuf but a heads up on info would be helpful.
trance atlas	Posted - 2011.01.09 05:51:00 - [553] they can fail it or they can let it run longer and you can still turn it in
Curance Lauwderbags	Posted - 2011.01.11 14:02:00 - [554] Thanks. I did some research, like I shoulda done to begin with, and found that out.
B Nabs	Posted - 2011.01.13 13:38:00 - [555] Hey guys, quick question about Market History. I'm trading to trade in liquid stocks for quick turnarounds, and was just wondering if market data shows the number of transactions for the region you're in, or the whole universe? Thanks
flakeys The Great cornholio's	Posted - 2011.01.13 16:19:00 - [556] Originally by: B Nabs Hey guys, quick question about Market History. I'm trading to trade in liquid stocks for quick turnarounds, and was just wondering if market data shows the number of transactions for the region you're in, or the whole universe? Thanks region
Ben Alman Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.24 01:39:00 - [557] Hi, is there any way to find out if there is actually a Market for items that can only be sold via contracts? I'm thinking about producing faction ABs but I have no idea if the available sell contracts ever get bought or if they are all fantasy values. Thanks
Barry Ze'Choppa Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.24 16:59:00 - [558] Good evening, gentlemens... Seriously though, I've been monitoring the Planetary P4 commodities of late, and noticed that Nano-factory is selling for a hightenend price (around 720,000). Does anyone know why? I'm using Jita for comparative figures, and found the other "simple" P4 products (Organic Mortar Applications and Sterile Conduits), to be holding steady at around 550,000- which makes sense when you compare them to the pricing of the "difficult" P4s (Such as Wetware Mainframes) selling at around 950,000. Considering Difficult P4s require twice as much base material to construct compared to the Simple P4s, the pricing seems fairly accurate. So why are Nano-factories, also a Simple P4, receiving a 50% bump? Thank you for your brainpower. P.S. Nano-factory was going for around 300,000 before the PI change. If it was just the patch making it harder to produce, wouldn't this affect the other Simple P4s as well?
Reeper 2435	Posted - 2011.02.01 21:50:00 - [559] any idea on the release date for (QEN) Q4 2010? Looking forward to this one.
Mhel Shaiten	Posted - 2011.02.02 10:49:00 - [560] Hi. It may seem a stupid question, but I didn't find the answer in the market section of the wiki so here I go : Let's say there's 2 buy orders, with the same conditions : same buy price, buy 100 units, minimum 1. if someone sells 10 units, which order will actually buy it? the oldest order? the one with the least time remaining (the oldest could have been set for 3 months, but a more recent one can have a lifespan of a week)? the one issued nearer? or just simply at random?
Ima Minar JAG - Faster Than Light	Posted - 2011.02.03 13:16:00 - [561] Do corporation contracts remain if the creator leaves corporation?
Dallmarr	Posted - 2011.02.06 00:16:00 - [562] quick one: the price history table is for the station or game wide?
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:31:00 - [563] Originally by: Mhel Shaiten Hi. It may seem a stupid question, but I didn't find the answer in the market section of the wiki so here I go : Let's say there's 2 buy orders, with the same conditions : same buy price, buy 100 units, minimum 1. if someone sells 10 units, which order will actually buy it? the oldest order? the one with the least time remaining (the oldest could have been set for 3 months, but a more recent one can have a lifespan of a week)? the one issued nearer? or just simply at random? The one that has been modified least recently.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.02.06 04:34:00 - [564] Originally by: Ben Alman Hi, is there any way to find out if there is actually a Market for items that can only be sold via contracts? I'm thinking about producing faction ABs but I have no idea if the available sell contracts ever get bought or if they are all fantasy values. Thanks The easiest way to do this would be to try to sell a few. I can think of a few other ways to look into it, but I reserve the right to keep that secret a secret
CaptainKhaos	Posted - 2011.02.06 19:29:00 - [565] Your current trade skills do not allow you to sell or buy items that far away from you. This item is in a station 3 Jumps away from you while your skills restrict you to this station. i have marketing lv 2 how come i cant sell :(
Melchiades Seti	Posted - 2011.02.11 20:58:00 - [566] What is DUST? I can't fin what people mean in any search.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2011.02.11 22:15:00 - [567] Edited by: Hel O''Ween on 11/02/2011 22:15:31 Originally by: Kethas Protagonist 1) What's the story behind EVE Metrics closing? If I had to guess, I'd say the authors concluded they could make more money selling similar services in private vs. accumulating advertising revenue on the free site, but I'm not sure. Just curious. Read for yourself: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1427146 Quote: 2) Is there a replacement? As already mentioned: EVE Central. There's another site, trying to fill the gap: http://eve-marketdata.com/ Quote: What is DUST? I can't fin what people mean in any search. DUST refers to the upcoming console game by CCP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_514 -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
bluenu	Posted - 2011.02.26 17:01:00 - [568] Edited by: bluenu on 26/02/2011 17:01:51 A courier contract of mine failed! Now I set the appropriate collateral and whatnot so that is not the issue. I did however, set up about 5-10 contracts and want to figure out what I "lost" in this one so I can replace it. After a bit of searching all I could figure out was the generic contract details. Is there a way to figure out what contents I put into that contract? How do i do it? In the event I can't I will keep track via personal spreadsheets. In the event I can I would appreciate any input. thanks! -Bluenu
Kalrand GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.02.26 19:43:00 - [569] Originally by: bluenu Edited by: bluenu on 26/02/2011 17:01:51 A courier contract of mine failed! Now I set the appropriate collateral and whatnot so that is not the issue. I did however, set up about 5-10 contracts and want to figure out what I "lost" in this one so I can replace it. After a bit of searching all I could figure out was the generic contract details. Is there a way to figure out what contents I put into that contract? How do i do it? In the event I can't I will keep track via personal spreadsheets. In the event I can I would appreciate any input. thanks! -Bluenu I've never found a way. What I do sometimes is put a unique isk-cents on either the reward or the collateral if I'm shipping a number of things at the same time at about the same volume to help keep track. Vote KALRAND for CSM!
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.02.27 03:45:00 - [570] Originally by: bluenu Is there a way to figure out what contents I put into that contract? How do I do it? If you put your goods into containers prior to creating your courier contracts, a caution like the following may show in the relevant log file in your <%USERPROFILE%\My Documents\EVE\logs\Gamelogs> or <%USERPROFILE%\Documents\EVE\logs\Gamelogs> directory: Originally by: Obfuscated log file [ 2011.02.14 01:23:45 ] (question) You are entering a non-empty container into this contract. The container and all its items will be entered into the contract.<br><br> The container <b>Fictional Container</b> contains the following items:<br> Towel I, Towel II, Toothbrush Fleet Issue, <br><br> Are you sure you want to continue? It lists only the verbal key for the typeids and does not show quantities, but that might in some cases be enough information to help remind you.
Moto Akimoto	Posted - 2011.02.27 20:08:00 - [571] What is the largest amount of ISK raised from the public by a corporation to date?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.01 03:09:00 - [572] Originally by: Moto Akimoto What is the largest amount of ISK raised from the public by a corporation to date? "The public", in the form of thousands of depositors, put trillions of ISK into EBANK over a period of roughly two years. When accounts were frozen, a net amount of roughly 2.5 trillion ISK was (notionally) on deposit for account-holders.
Brock Nelson Caldari T2 Technologies Unlimited SRS.	Posted - 2011.03.01 03:57:00 - [573] Quick question to auditors; When doing audits, do blueprints show as locked/unlocked or doesn't show that info at all? IPO coming soon
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.03.02 16:33:00 - [574] Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Moto Akimoto What is the largest amount of ISK raised from the public by a corporation to date? "The public", in the form of thousands of depositors, put trillions of ISK into EBANK over a period of roughly two years. When accounts were frozen, a net amount of roughly 2.5 trillion ISK was (notionally) on deposit for account-holders. Here is another number to blow you mind.. Over the space of EBANK's existence to date. The database has logged Total Deposits at 10,173,252,100,888.40, and Total Withdrawals at 7,456,427,103,408.55. According to the database EBANK had also processed loans the following values. Total Lent: 2,493,057,272,546.60 Total Repaid: 2,716,858,526,327.64 I note these values, as "Total Lent" would be included in the "Total Withdrawals" value, as would the "Total Repaid" would be part of the "Total Deposits". I find it hard to believe that any public entity in the near future will handle the same volume of ISK flow. Amarr for Life
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2011.03.03 02:25:00 - [575] Originally by: SencneS I find it hard to believe that any public entity in the near future will handle the same volume of ISK flow. Aside from the gambling houses, you mean. =) ______________________________
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2011.03.03 21:51:00 - [576] Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Aside from the gambling houses, you mean. =) EOH Has shares? OK so EBANK didn't have shares either... So I'll rephrase.. EOH Pays interest on deposited ISK? Yes, yes, either has EBANK for the last couple of years though that's what it was designed to do. I guess if you consider any public entity to be anyone performing any type of public service, then Chribba would have to win. But I was refining down to "public entity" as a more MD related term at least some sort of entity that people would generate a return on without having to interact with it. Should have been more specific, sorry about that. --------- This is not a jab at you Selene or EOH for that matter, I was looking to see if EOH did pay Interest and found something I chuckled over. I would have to say, EBANK could have stood to take a leaf out of EOH Policy here, I mean with this policy EBANK would have been in the black despite Riddic. "It should also be noted that all accounts that have not been logged onto for 90 days will have their ISK balances wiped (not refunded). The account will continue to stay in our system for record keeping purposes, and may be used again at a later date should a user return." For those that want to see that - It's in the "Ring Games" Section of EOH Website it's highlighted in Red. Amarr for Life
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2011.03.05 03:10:00 - [577] I didn't really consider the public qualifier before. In that case EBANK would probably win. The EOH policy of course makes no sense for a bank, unlike a service, but is quite useful for preventing a growth of liability while giving an incentive for users to be self policing. ______________________________
Moto Akimoto	Posted - 2011.03.05 22:59:00 - [578] I created new shares for my corp so now the shares outstanding = 30,000. I am holding 1,000 in my personal wallet and 29,000 is in the corp wallet. My corp profile shows "Shares 29,000", does this mean that corp profiles only track treasury shares and not total of shares outstanding? Where can I find the shares outstanding for a corp?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.07 00:55:00 - [579] Originally by: Moto Akimoto I created new shares for my corp so now the shares outstanding = 30,000. I am holding 1,000 in my personal wallet and 29,000 is in the corp wallet. My corp profile shows "Shares 29,000", does this mean that corp profiles only track treasury shares and not total of shares outstanding? Where can I find the shares outstanding for a corp? A long-standing bug can influence the count of corporation shares shown in the corporation's Show Info window. I believe the ledger of shareholders in the Corporation Wallet should be accurate.
Moto Akimoto	Posted - 2011.03.08 17:56:00 - [580] Thanks for answering my questions. Here is another one: How many unique items are available through the market interface? Thanks in advance for your reply.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.09 08:17:00 - [581] Originally by: Moto Akimoto How many unique items are available through the market interface? Thanks in advance for your reply. According to this table of metadata from EVE-Central, there are 6490 typeids assigned to a marketgroup. I don't have the most recent datadump from CCP handy, so I'm not sure if that's a table based on what has been loaded to EVE-Central or what is available in the Market system. At worst, it's probably a good estimate of total SKUs on the Market.
Moto Akimoto	Posted - 2011.03.16 00:27:00 - [582] What is the max share distribution possible? Unrestricted by the amount of isk in the wallet ofc
Vierego	Posted - 2011.03.16 15:59:00 - [583] Howdy, I read the sticky guide and glanced over a couple guides (and read the title of each thread) and none seem to point me in the right direction. I'm wondering if it is possible, or there is a program out there, that lets you export the price history/quantity moved. I have dumper, which gives me a wealth of information, and have jimmy rigged a way to get volmoved for buy and sell using the useful dumper tool. The only problem is, I'm not sure how to calculate for Buy/Sell orders that get created and filled between my market scans. So I thought if I had both reports I could average them out. I buy mission loot in bulk at above buy order prices! (sinq laison)
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.17 01:42:00 - [584] Originally by: Moto Akimoto What is the max share distribution possible? Unrestricted by the amount of isk in the wallet ofc According to the Dominion Patch Notes: "The dividend payments are no longer restricted to 2,147,483,64 ISK." "2,147,483,64" looks an awful lot like a typo of (2 ^ 31) = 2 147 483 648, or thereabouts. If the new limit is 64-bit-based, then the analogous upper bound would be 2^63-ish (roughly 10 ^ 19), and is much, much larger than the total amount of ISK in player hands in New Eden.
Thoraemund	Posted - 2011.03.17 01:49:00 - [585] Originally by: Vierego I'm wondering if it is possible, or there is a program out there, that lets you export the price history/quantity moved. I have dumper, which gives me a wealth of information, and have jimmy rigged a way to get volmoved for buy and sell using the useful dumper tool. The only problem is, I'm not sure how to calculate for Buy/Sell orders that get created and filled between my market scans. So I thought if I had both reports I could average them out. Generally, cache-scraping is the way to get Market History data, cache resource tools such as (or based on) Reverence or libevecache, for example. Once you have the actual Market History data, you won't need to estimate quantities moved, since you will have the actual figures. For the high, low and mean daily prices in the Market History data, the values are the "massaged" figures that result after outliers have been removed. The exact parameters of this outlier removal have not, to my knowledge, been shared by CCP or determined exactly by players.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.17 02:03:00 - [586] Dagnabbit! Still, the mild embarrassment of accidentally posting with an alt has to be a lot less than what CCP's pre-EVE Gate "web developers" felt. Imagine the embarrassment of claiming to be a "web developer" and having to admit that despite, literally, years of work on a forum system, it could not store the most basic user preferences from one authenticated session to the next... Ouch!
Moto Akimoto	Posted - 2011.03.29 16:34:00 - [587] What happens to corporate shares owned by a character when the character is deleted? Are the shares returned to the corp by dafault? Do these shares get deducted from "Shares Outstanding" for dividend distributions?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.30 23:45:00 - [588] Originally by: Moto Akimoto What happens to corporate shares owned by a character when the character is deleted? Are the shares returned to the corp by default? Do these shares get deducted from "Shares Outstanding" for dividend distributions? I did not biomass a pilot to test this, but according to the patch notes for Build 41736 to 45017 addresses EVE: Trinity Changes and Fixes (2007-12-05): "Shares from terminated characters are now returned to the corporation." And to be clear, I read that to mean that they are returned to the issuing corporation, not the corporation that employs the pilot being bio-massed. All shares are counted for the purpose of dividend calculations, whether held in the corporation treasury, or by shareholders at large.
Valeroth Kyarmentari	Posted - 2011.03.31 18:33:00 - [589] I skimmed the first dozen pages or so and didn't see this question, so hopefully it wasn't in the last few. An idea, it would be useful for someone to go through and pickout all the questions and answers and put them one document/FAQ. Question: I setup a buy order with lets say a 5 jump range. 1. Will that buy order range extend into bordering regions? Or will it stop at the region borders. 2. Will that buy order range take a shorter path through another region? For example, I set a buy order in System A with a range of 5 jumps. I can get to System B (which is in the same region) in 5 jumps if I take a route through a neighbor system, but it would take 8 jumps if I stay in region. Will my buy order extend to it? Thanks.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.03.31 23:15:00 - [590] Originally by: Valeroth Kyarmentari Question: I setup a buy order with lets say a 5 jump range. 1. Will that buy order range extend into bordering regions? Or will it stop at the region borders. 2. Will that buy order range take a shorter path through another region? For example, I set a buy order in System A with a range of 5 jumps. I can get to System B (which is in the same region) in 5 jumps if I take a route through a neighbor system, but it would take 8 jumps if I stay in region. Will my buy order extend to it? 1. Buy orders will buy only within the region in which they are set. 2. Yes. A couple of years ago, Covert Kitty made a similar inquiry and ended up testing it, reporting the results, and accumulating some support and agreement from other posters. Originally by: Valeroth Kyarmentari An idea, it would be useful for someone to go through and pickout all the questions and answers and put them one document/FAQ. I take it you missed the link to the Market Discussions FAQ in the EVElopedia that is linked at the top of the first post on the first page of this thread? The FAQ was indeed compiled largely from this thread. If you're content with my answers, I encourage you to take a minute to integrate them into the FAQ. I understand that if you can log in to these forums, you should be able to log in to edit the EVElopedia.
Amar Azaph	Posted - 2011.04.12 13:29:00 - [591] Is there a set of basic steps that a new player should do to try and make some money from the market? In other words, a quick short guide to trading etc?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.04.12 23:07:00 - [592] Originally by: Amar Azaph Is there a set of basic steps that a new player should do to try and make some money from the market? In other words, a quick short guide to trading etc? There is no one-size-fits all guaranteed set of steps that all rookie traders must take on the road to trading success. I.e., there's no magic formula like: Originally by: South Park, Season 2, Episode 17 Phase 1: Collect Underpants Phase 2: ? Phase 3: Profit However, the bottom line does often boil down to something as simple as: "Buy low; sell high." For further introductions, the Market Resources page on the EVElopedia, linked from the sticky at the top of this forum, does include a selection links to "Newbie Guides and Q&A" resources, right near the top. The Market Discussions FAQ also includes brief overviews of a few styles of trading.
Ender Sparrow	Posted - 2011.04.20 08:09:00 - [593] Where could I place an order to buy into certain corps?
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.04.21 03:46:00 - [594] Originally by: Ender Sparrow Where could I place an order to buy into certain corps? Without knowing exactly what sort of buying you want to do, or which corporations are the certain ones that you have in mind, I'm not sure of the best answer, so I will try a few: there is no official stock exchange (in-game or out-) on which you can buy and sell shares in any NPC or player corporation, nor is there any official debt market; many offerings (of debt or equity) are launched in threads in the Market Discussions forum itself, and there are scores of offerings that have failed or succeeded and whose merits and failings you will see in those threads (Moto Akimoto recently put some effort into listing many recent offerings in threadID=1487083; to invest in these, generally you must notice the thread and then reply to indicate your interest; note: these are player-run operations, so do not send ISK unless to assess it to be worth the risks of doing so); and the offerings of a limited number of player corporations are listed on the BSAC Stock Exchange, which bills itself as "EVE's only real-time stock exchange" (Again, this is a player-run operation, so do not send ISK unless you assess it to be worth the risks of doing so).
Tefa Serine	Posted - 2011.04.24 09:24:00 - [595] Edited by: Tefa Serine on 24/04/2011 09:26:41 About marketing skill, i quote this from some guide i found: "Now with a high enough skill you can manage your profits without ever having to leave the station." So, normally my mission hub is far away from nearest trade center and i have to transport all of them there to sell. Can i sell them from my mission hub with high enough Marketing skill, or any other skill at all? Marketing should let me use the assets to sell items i have in remote location. Does it use the buyer position and range of the item or myself? To ask it in relation to the above story; If i leave my items in the mission hub and travel to trade center, can i sell the items to buyers available in trade center? Procurement skill... I read from wiki that it lets you buy stuff from space without being docked, while that wouldn't be possible without Procurement. I thought you can do that even without the skill anyway? If i have understood right, Procurement only does that you get a second alternative dialog to buy items remotely. Meaning that your buy order will be visible to other people in that location by range of Visibility skill.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.04.24 15:48:00 - [596] Originally by: Tefa Serine About marketing skill, i quote this from some guide i found: "Now with a high enough skill you can manage your profits without ever having to leave the station." You can "manage your profits without ever having to leave the station" without having any of the remote trade skills, but they do give you more options. Originally by: Tefa Serine So, normally my mission hub is far away from nearest trade center and i have to transport all of them there to sell. Can i sell them from my mission hub with high enough Marketing skill, or any other skill at all? No skill will magically transport the items for you. However, if you use a courier mission to hire someone else to transport the goods to your sales location, you can stay in your mission location the whole time, and after the goods are delivered by the courier mission to your sales location, you can use the Marketing skill to set up remote Sell Orders. Originally by: Tefa Serine Marketing should let me use the assets to sell items i have in remote location. Does it use the buyer position and range of the item or myself? To ask it in relation to the above story; If i leave my items in the mission hub and travel to trade center, can i sell the items to buyers available in trade center? The distance measured in for the Marketing skill is the distance between the pilot and the intended location of the Sell Order. Again, no skill magically moves items such that you can sell items in Station X to an order that buys items only in Station Y. Originally by: Tefa Serine Procurement skill... I read from wiki that it lets you buy stuff from space without being docked, while that wouldn't be possible without Procurement. I thought you can do that even without the skill anyway? If i have understood right, Procurement only does that you get a second alternative dialog to buy items remotely. Meaning that your buy order will be visible to other people in that location by range of Visibility skill. Procurement lets you set standing orders remotely. You can, as you note, buy remotely if you buy things immediately. When you are setting a remote standing Buy Order, the Visibility skill dictates the maximum catchment radius of that Buy Order. Generally speaking, all orders are visible to all pilots all the time (with exceptions if they have filters turned on, or if an order expired but has not yet been cleared by the server), and you do not need the Visibility skill for that. From the Market Discussions FAQ on the EVElopedia, linked in the first post of this thread: Originally by: Market Discussions FAQ What are the skills for making and modify orders remotely? The skills Marketing and Procurement allow you to create Asks and Bids (Sell Orders and Buy Orders, respectively) at stations away from your current location (but still in the same region). The Visibility skill allows you to increase the catchment radius when creating remote Bids (Buy Orders). The Daytrading skill allows you to modify the prices of remote orders. No skills will magically move items from one station to another. If you set a remote bid, the items you buy will be delivered to the station(s) where that bid is effective. To set a remote ask, the item(s) to be sold must already be at the remote location. This Diagram of EVE Trading Skills for Remote Orders illustrates the effect of these skills.
Monstress	Posted - 2011.05.05 01:18:00 - [597] Hi, as a station trader in Jita, I find myself spending quite a bit of a time updating my buy/sell orders many times a day. However, the amount of UI lag involved in updating orders and market refreshes makes this a discouraging task more and more each day. Any other station traders out there who stare at nothing but their wallet and market window want to share any hints or tips to make this process less painful? Thanks
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.05.05 18:34:00 - [598] Originally by: Monstress Hi, as a station trader in Jita, I find myself spending quite a bit of a time updating my buy/sell orders many times a day. However, the amount of UI lag involved in updating orders and market refreshes makes this a discouraging task more and more each day. Any other station traders out there who stare at nothing but their wallet and market window want to share any hints or tips to make this process less painful? Thanks Not really, if it makes you feel better, everyone suffers from it. To make it less painful I pay a little game: I see how many orders I can update in an hour and then break my record. Fly me to the moon and let me play amongst the stars.. let me see what spring is like on Jupiter and Mars..
Nypheas Azurai	Posted - 2011.05.06 11:42:00 - [599] Originally by: Tutskii To make it less painful I pay a little game: I see how many orders I can update in an hour and then break my record. I have some stamps you might be interested in licking :P --------------------
Holdas	Posted - 2011.05.06 14:32:00 - [600] Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks!
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.05.08 04:25:00 - [601] Originally by: Holdas Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks! It depends, but probably Accounting 5. Without Standings Let's start out ignoring standings: Broker Relations reduces the Market Order Broker Fee rate by 5% per skill level. (See this Chart illustrating the effect of standings on Market Order Broker Fees for full details.) The initial rate is 1.00% of the gross value of your order (Buy or Sell) when you create a standing order (i.e., any order with a duration longer than "Immediate"). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Market Order Broker Fee from 0.80% to 0.75%. Accounting reduces the Sales Tax by 10% per skill level. The initial rate is 1.00% of your actual sales, paid when the sale actually takes place (rather than when the order is placed). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Sales Tax from 0.60% to 0.50%. You say you "mostly sell things", so I am guessing that the value of your standing sell orders is significantly more than the value of your standing buy orders. In this situation, reducing your Sales Tax will be a greater benefit (0.10% > 0.05%). If you place standing buy orders to acquire goods that you later sell with standing sell orders, then keep in mind you are paying Market Order Broker Fees for two orders in relation to each unit you sell (once when buying, again when selling), so you would see that 0.05% reduction twice (2 + 0.05 = 0.10%). Now, 0.10% looks a lot like 0.10%, but presumably your buy orders are for a lower gross value than your sell orders ("buy low, sell high", right?), so the 0.05% paid on your buy orders is probably less than 0.05% on your sell orders... so reducing your Sales Tax by 0.10% still has an edge over reducing your Market Order Broker Fees by 0.05%. Standings When you add consideration of standings, things can change: If the faction and corporation of the station where you are placing your standing orders like you (positive standings), then your Market Order Broker Fee rate will be reduced even further. That would make Accounting an even better choice. If, however, you have significant negative standing where you are trading, the Market Order Broker Fees can get up to as high as 4.00% (instead of 1.00%), and so the benefit of reducing them becomes more significant.
Holdas	Posted - 2011.05.08 05:13:00 - [602] Originally by: Thoraemond Originally by: Holdas Broker Relations 5 or Accounting 5? Which one makes the biggest impact on your trading costs? I mostly sell things, thanks! It depends, but probably Accounting 5. Without Standings Let's start out ignoring standings: Broker Relations reduces the Market Order Broker Fee rate by 5% per skill level. (See this Chart illustrating the effect of standings on Market Order Broker Fees for full details.) The initial rate is 1.00% of the gross value of your order (Buy or Sell) when you create a standing order (i.e., any order with a duration longer than "Immediate"). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Market Order Broker Fee from 0.80% to 0.75%. Accounting reduces the Sales Tax by 10% per skill level. The initial rate is 1.00% of your actual sales, paid when the sale actually takes place (rather than when the order is placed). Training from Level 4 to Level 5 in this skill would reduce your Sales Tax from 0.60% to 0.50%. You say you "mostly sell things", so I am guessing that the value of your standing sell orders is significantly more than the value of your standing buy orders. In this situation, reducing your Sales Tax will be a greater benefit (0.10% > 0.05%). If you place standing buy orders to acquire goods that you later sell with standing sell orders, then keep in mind you are paying Market Order Broker Fees for two orders in relation to each unit you sell (once when buying, again when selling), so you would see that 0.05% reduction twice (2 + 0.05 = 0.10%). Now, 0.10% looks a lot like 0.10%, but presumably your buy orders are for a lower gross value than your sell orders ("buy low, sell high", right?), so the 0.05% paid on your buy orders is probably less than 0.05% on your sell orders... so reducing your Sales Tax by 0.10% still has an edge over reducing your Market Order Broker Fees by 0.05%. Standings When you add consideration of standings, things can change: If the faction and corporation of the station where you are placing your standing orders like you (positive standings), then your Market Order Broker Fee rate will be reduced even further. That would make Accounting an even better choice. If, however, you have significant negative standing where you are trading, the Market Order Broker Fees can get up to as high as 4.00% (instead of 1.00%), and so the benefit of reducing them becomes more significant. Excellent answer, thanks! I pretty much only sell, so accounting is best then. Training that atm in this case. I appreciate the answer and the chart. Now I just have to grind standings I suppose
Reality G one	Posted - 2011.06.07 21:25:00 - [603] Hey, Sorry if this is the wrong place... but I was wondering if anyone knew any good trading tools? Like station trading tools, I'm actually giving myself a headache trying to work out if I'm making a profit with Tax fees and brooker fees etc =/ I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.06.10 00:16:00 - [604] Originally by: Reality G one Hey, Sorry if this is the wrong place... but I was wondering if anyone knew any good trading tools? Like station trading tools, I'm actually giving myself a headache trying to work out if I'm making a profit with Tax fees and Broker fees etc =/ I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want. Did you find the list of applications in the Market Resources EVElopedia page linked from the thread that is stickied above this one in Market Discussions? The list is fairly thorough. It seems that you might be interested in something from the "Wallet and Order Management" category. Depending on factors like (i) how much ISK you are using in your trading, (ii) how many different items you have looked into, you might want to think about this: If you are not sure that your trading is profitable, perhaps there are different items you could trade in that offer a larger margin?
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission EVE Trade Consortium	Posted - 2011.06.10 12:20:00 - [605] Originally by: Reality G one I've tried almost every program I could find on the forums but none seem to do what I simply want. Welcome to my little "How to ask questions right" course. 1) When asking questions, key is to be as precise as possible. So instead of writing "almost every program" you'd list the applications you already tried and which didn't do what you want/the way you want it. This saves yourself and others the time of recommending tools you already tried out. 2) And instead of "[...] but none seem to do what I simply want", you also state what application A did, what you didn't like/want about the way it did the job. On top of that, describe how you'd like the application to handle that case. 3) Bonus points for contacting the developers and dropping them a short note along the lines of "Hi, I just tried your <x>, was looking after <thing>, but only found your tool to do <other thing>. Did I miss something? If not, you might want to consider adding this in an upcoming release of your tool." -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:32:00 - [606] What is special about the 14th of June? I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches.
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2011.06.14 16:58:00 - [607] Originally by: Ray McCormack What is special about the 14th of June? On the 14th of June, 1789, the Reverend Elijah Craig first produced whiskey distilled from corn. It was called bourbon because Craig lived in Bourbon County, Kentucky. (According to Wikipedia.)
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.15 02:00:00 - [608] When is Eve going to work? Go make a new disaster, that's what I'm counting on. You're someone else's problem, now I only want you gone... http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1516147 mcv
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.06.15 03:37:00 - [609] Originally by: Ray McCormack What is special about the 14th of June? My birthday IRL! What did you get me?
Ray McCormack Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2011.06.15 06:44:00 - [610] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 My birthday IRL! What did you get me? 1b ISK for every inch of ****. I agree that shooting people with a headache in the head is a good idea, because it will stop their headaches.
Jupix Minmatar MuroBBS United	Posted - 2011.06.17 19:36:00 - [611] What the hell is happening to technetium? 13 % drop in less than a month! Why? Someone dumped almost 100B worth of it on the market one day, but other than that, it's just been falling day in and day out, no idea why.
Dethmourne Silvermane Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.	Posted - 2011.06.21 12:28:00 - [612] Originally by: Jupix What the hell is happening to technetium? 13 % drop in less than a month! Why? Someone dumped almost 100B worth of it on the market one day, but other than that, it's just been falling day in and day out, no idea why. New expansion means a potential moon rebalance; if one did drop, and tech was nerfed, its value would dump fast. People are panic selling because a CCP employee noted the moons needed to be rebalanced with a tech nerf "soon" in alliance tournament.
Meuterer Gallente	Posted - 2011.06.21 14:18:00 - [613] Is there some good article/post/guide/discussion on how to analyze the price history tab. something like this this, but maybe a bit more detailed / expressing alternative methods etc.
Dark Inkura	Posted - 2011.06.23 23:54:00 - [614] Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:59 Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:43 When looking at the market table view what do the "Orders" and "Quantity" tabs specify. Is it the number of buy orders that have been filled and the number of sell orders that have been bought from or something else? Thanks.
Enoch Schuldenberg	Posted - 2011.06.24 22:02:00 - [615] Edited by: Enoch Schuldenberg on 24/06/2011 22:02:32 Originally by: Dark Inkura Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:59 Edited by: Dark Inkura on 23/06/2011 23:54:43 When looking at the market table view what do the "Orders" and "Quantity" tabs specify. Is it the number of buy orders that have been filled and the number of sell orders that have been bought from or something else? Thanks. It's a sum of both buy order and sell transactions (not orders) executed. It's all transactions that actually happened, how many of them were on the sell side, how many on the buy side - there is no way to tell for sure. However, under rules of supply and demand, if the average price (yellow dot on the history tab) is closer to the upper limits, you can safely assume that those were the sell orders filled in and vice versa.
FearNo Evil	Posted - 2011.06.26 23:32:00 - [616] First time posting, "How does a bond work exactly?"
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.06.27 19:02:00 - [617] Originally by: FearNo Evil First time posting, "How does a bond work exactly?" It depends on the particular bond but in general MD bonds work like this: Someone makes a "bond opening" post with conditions, interest %, length, and so on. People then reserve as much of the bond as they want or are allowed depending on the bond. When the bond is full, a "send isk" post will be made, at which point you should send the isk you pledged. What happens from then, depends on the bond. Hopefully you will get your principal plus interest at some point in the future, but people DO scam from time to time. And, thats about it. If you are thinking about investing, I recommend you do your homework and look up the person you are investing on, their posting history, their NAV, etc etc etc. But really if someone wants to keep your money, they will. Make sure you trust the person you send isk too. There ARE scammers here and there and investing should NOT be done lightly. That is just my opinion though.
FearNo Evil	Posted - 2011.06.29 04:07:00 - [618] Thank You I appreciate your help
Chevalleis The Legendary Conquest	Posted - 2011.06.29 16:42:00 - [619] There's something in the markets that I don't seem to get. Take PLEX for example. I would assume that everybody would just keep 0.01 isking themselves. However plex rised over 25 million in a matter of days. (lotso 0.01 isking). How is this possible, unless numerous people for numerous times placed orders for millions more than normally?
Tekota legion industries ltd AAA Citizens	Posted - 2011.06.30 05:11:00 - [620] Originally by: Chevalleis unless numerous people for numerous times placed orders for millions more than normally? In most instances it's just this. As to why, well the reasons could be numerous: Folks not wanting to constantly 0.01 isk so assume if they put their order out there by a few million other traders will let that order fill rather than follow it and reduce their margins. Folks could be wanting to purposely change a perceived price point of an item because they have nefarious plans. They might want to drive a competitor out of a market by destroying margins as a loss leader for future exploitation. They might be doing it for giggles. Or they may have made a typo and set a sell order at buy order price (or vice versa).
Tutskii	Posted - 2011.07.03 02:02:00 - [621] Originally by: Chevalleis There's something in the markets that I don't seem to get. Take PLEX for example. I would assume that everybody would just keep 0.01 isking themselves. However plex rised over 25 million in a matter of days. (lotso 0.01 isking). How is this possible, unless numerous people for numerous times placed orders for millions more than normally? If you want to increase the price of something you can do so by setting up orders 500 k or 1 m apart and hoping the market follows. There are numerous reasons to do this, for example, you may hope people won't follow such an increase, or you may have a stock of an item you are planning to dump on the increased buy orders. Plex is a high volume good and several people buying at once will raise the price quickly as sell orders are usually separated by x amount of isk and are for relatively few units.
SquirrelWizard	Posted - 2011.07.05 03:29:00 - [622] Edited by: SquirrelWizard on 05/07/2011 03:31:27 I'm looking to get into trading, and one of the things I foresee that I'm going to have to do is set up courier contracts to transport goods over vast(and some not so vast) distances. My question involves finding a fair payment per jump (assuming its all through highsec)for these contracts. edit: I have seen the post for Red Frog Freight, but based on the info given in it, they're more oriented at large capacity courier contracts rather than the small capacity contracts I'd be making. Their prices would basically ruin my bussiness plan.
Candy Oshea Amarr Techfree Investment Group	Posted - 2011.07.05 04:36:00 - [623] Originally by: SquirrelWizard Their prices would basically ruin my bussiness plan. If i was you, i would lowball the reward untill you find the minimum ppl will accept, there is no rules to this. Start very low, if no-one takes it increase it slightly. Freighters waste money with half empty loads. If you can't afford the premium courier's charge, but can afford the wait for the goods, do this. ___ iCandy Bonds
Rhivre Caldari TarNec	Posted - 2011.07.05 11:07:00 - [624] Originally by: SquirrelWizard edit: I have seen the post for Red Frog Freight, but based on the info given in it, they're more oriented at large capacity courier contracts rather than the small capacity contracts I'd be making. Their prices would basically ruin my bussiness plan. You could take a look at Universal Railways (I think they are still going) to see if they are more in your price range Universal Railways
Tigerras Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.05 16:00:00 - [625] Question: How much should I ask for in an initial loan for a semi-first time poster to MD? And what is a reasonable interest rate? The loan term is going to be 1-2 months. Background: I am returning to Eve after an absence, and need to jump-start my trading business. I want to expand it greatly, but don't want to risk too much money (especially other people's) while I shake off the cobwebs of 6 months of inactivity. I've used up much of my liquid assets to buy a PLEX, and while I'll have some more coming up liquid soon, I'm sitting doing nothing with a lot of my potential buying/selling capacity due to lack of funds. 500m would set me up pretty right now, 1b would be great, but I'm worried it would be too much for a first timer. My past business experiences have been varied, but successful. I have run an overly sucessful standing service that gave me so much work I got burned out, and have been doing this trading thing to keep my account solvent and buy fun stuff for a while before quitting last time. Regarding the interest rate question, I have a capital cargo bay BPO that I will have to sell in case the whole thing goes south to repay the loan. I don't want to give it to a third party, but am not sure if it counts as a collateralized loan if I am not giving it over as collateral. Any input on this? Thanks.
Tekota legion industries ltd AAA Citizens	Posted - 2011.07.05 18:42:00 - [626] Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss. Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan. As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a very rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire. The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?".
analtanalt	Posted - 2011.07.05 19:20:00 - [627] Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss. Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan. As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a very rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire. The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?". Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO. I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice.
analtanalt	Posted - 2011.07.05 19:58:00 - [628] Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss. Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan. As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a very rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire. The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?". Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO. I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice. No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt.
Tigerras Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.07.05 20:28:00 - [629] Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss. Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan. As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a very rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire. The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?". Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO. I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice. No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt. facepalm
Serene Python	Posted - 2011.07.06 17:01:00 - [630] Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss. Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan. As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a very rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire. The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?". Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO. I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice. No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt. Why don't you just embrace it? Let analtanalt be you're MD posting character?
RAW23	Posted - 2011.07.06 19:09:00 - [631] Originally by: Tekota Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Thanks for the ad! Yes, I still offer this service. If anyone is interested just get in touch and we can hammer out the (pretty straightforward) details.
Tigerras Smash Incorporated	Posted - 2011.07.07 11:22:00 - [632] Originally by: Serene Python Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: analtanalt Originally by: Tekota Wouldn't be a collateralised loan if you kept hold of it. Collateral is basically there to ensure that if you did a runner with the cash there would be something of equal value to sell off to cover the loss. Now BPOs typically make excellent collateral for two reasons. Firstly they're a sensible collateral in that it would normally take some time to replace the print to research levels you like, secondly you can make use of them while they're held. There are (used to be) several people set up to hold the BPO as collateral while allowing you to produce from it. Think RAW23 used to do such a thing but I've not paid attention recently. Obviously if someone else is holding collateral you have to trust them to not run off with it and the investors need to trust that the person holding it will liquidate and return their funds if you bail out on the loan. As to interest rates, for a collateralised offering you'll probably get away with 3% per month, maybe a bit more if you want it to fill faster. For an uncollaterlised offering many factors come into play - investors are primarily concerned with the risk of you doing a runner, a higher interest rate is likely needed then to weigh against that concern, but if there is a bad feeling about you, your risk, your history then no amount of interest will overcome that concern. And of course too high a rate also makes things look suspicious. At a very rough guess I'd suspect 5-7% per month might fill if all history checks out and you pass the MD Trial By Fire. The MD Trial By Fire - to allay fears about risk be prepared to answer some questioning, rather intense and accusatory at times. One thing that will almost certainly come up will be "you got burnt out and quit before - what are the chances of you doing the same again whilst this loan is running?". Thanks for the reply. Part of the debate I'm having in taking out this loan revolves around that BPO. I am not fully certain I want to keep it, so selling it outright will net be probably a billion isk give or take...but I don't want to get rid of it as it is a nice BPO. I've got some thinking to do....thanks for the advice. No matter how many times I try to check it, I always post under that stupid corp-holding alt. Why don't you just embrace it? Let analtanalt be you're MD posting character? Now you've done it....she's doomed to be melted once the bond I have up is done....to be replaced with rectalbrownalt. Another serious question: Is it worth trying to run a third party service if you have no intention of aiding in transfers of capital ships? Is there a market for sub-capital third party services? What is a reasonable price to charge for such a thing?
Chevalleis The Legendary Conquest	Posted - 2011.07.08 05:11:00 - [633] To run a third-party service requires the runner to have a high level of trust. Also, third party services aren't limited to ships. They also do collateral-holding and even sometimes run online websites. For the price, I have no idea.
RAW23	Posted - 2011.07.08 10:46:00 - [634] Originally by: Tigerras Another serious question: Is it worth trying to run a third party service if you have no intention of aiding in transfers of capital ships? Is there a market for sub-capital third party services? What is a reasonable price to charge for such a thing? There is certainly a market for third party services outside of supercap transfers as bonds, loans, lotteries, bets and such like all need securing. I'm not sure whether it is something worth aiming at as a goal, though. You are unlikely to make huge amounts of isk from it but the isk you do make will be fairly low effort and it is the low effort that is the attraction. But getting yourself to a position where people trust you sufficiently to engage your services would not be low effort if pursued purely for the goal of becoming a third party. Really, getting asked to do third party work tends to be a side-effect of doing something else (like running bonds or lotteries) that involves being trusted with isk. As to costs, it varies depending on the jobbut as an example I might charge 100mil per month for securing a bond with an arrangement that will require me to put an alt into a corp as CEO.
Tigerras Smash Incorporated	Posted - 2011.07.08 15:01:00 - [635] Edited by: Tigerras on 08/07/2011 15:01:49 Originally by: RAW23 Originally by: Tigerras Another serious question: Is it worth trying to run a third party service if you have no intention of aiding in transfers of capital ships? Is there a market for sub-capital third party services? What is a reasonable price to charge for such a thing? There is certainly a market for third party services outside of supercap transfers as bonds, loans, lotteries, bets and such like all need securing. I'm not sure whether it is something worth aiming at as a goal, though. You are unlikely to make huge amounts of isk from it but the isk you do make will be fairly low effort and it is the low effort that is the attraction. But getting yourself to a position where people trust you sufficiently to engage your services would not be low effort if pursued purely for the goal of becoming a third party. Really, getting asked to do third party work tends to be a side-effect of doing something else (like running bonds or lotteries) that involves being trusted with isk. As to costs, it varies depending on the jobbut as an example I might charge 100mil per month for securing a bond with an arrangement that will require me to put an alt into a corp as CEO. Makes sense. I figured it might make a nice, easy extra income, but probably should be something I wait a bit to try to do. I'm evaluating other options atm as well. Thanks for the info.
Nikolaj Jagd	Posted - 2011.07.30 15:23:00 - [636] Question regarding station trading. Hi guys I have a little question regarding station trading. Yesterday i gave an alt 20 mil isk, and sent it to amarr (tried in dodixie first) My problem is, i have to change my orders every 5 minutes :s i can't find any items in which i can keep my price in more than 5 minutes. And it seems like, whenever someone buys at a higher price than I, that is the exact 5 minutes where all the items are sold to them :S So put simply, i can't buy enough stuff to actually get anything to sell :S Do you guys recommend that i trade in another system or what to do?
odama jasonsson Caldari Het Biervat	Posted - 2011.08.03 12:18:00 - [637] Edited by: odama jasonsson on 03/08/2011 12:18:42 Originally by: Nikolaj Jagd Question regarding station trading. Hi guys I have a little question regarding station trading. Yesterday i gave an alt 20 mil isk, and sent it to amarr (tried in dodixie first) My problem is, i have to change my orders every 5 minutes :s i can't find any items in which i can keep my price in more than 5 minutes. And it seems like, whenever someone buys at a higher price than I, that is the exact 5 minutes where all the items are sold to them :S So put simply, i can't buy enough stuff to actually get anything to sell :S Do you guys recommend that i trade in another system or what to do? 2 tips: -Don't place all your bets on one horse -When trading in a trade hub this is going to happen sooner or later. either you start doing a different kind of trading, or you have to check more often. --
Borkers	Posted - 2011.08.08 01:26:00 - [638] Originally by: Nikolaj Jagd Question regarding station trading. Hi guys I have a little question regarding station trading. Yesterday i gave an alt 20 mil isk, and sent it to amarr (tried in dodixie first) My problem is, i have to change my orders every 5 minutes :s i can't find any items in which i can keep my price in more than 5 minutes. And it seems like, whenever someone buys at a higher price than I, that is the exact 5 minutes where all the items are sold to them :S So put simply, i can't buy enough stuff to actually get anything to sell :S Do you guys recommend that i trade in another system or what to do? Two things to try: 1) The conservative approach. Offer more money. If the buy price is 300 and the sell price is 330, don't offer 301 ISK. Offer 310. The other traders will at least be tempted to ignore your offer and continue piddling around 300. Remember: 2% of something is more than 10% of nothing. 2) The aggressive approach. Break your buy order into several smaller orders, so you can change prices more often. This is a lot more work, but it gives you more control.
Borkers	Posted - 2011.08.21 23:10:00 - [639] For manufacturers selling T1 goods in Jita: Why do you bother? I'm considering getting started with manufacturing, and looking at various blueprints. Even with Material Levels over 200, and Production Efficiency V, almost every T1 manufactured good is worth less than its component minerals on the Jita market. If you use a cheaper source for minerals, why don't you just sell those minerals for a markup in Jita?
Blaze Stigma Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2011.08.22 13:25:00 - [640] is any one had trouble Last night with market? i try to sell some ice. but i didnt get ** for it in isk. so i am ask all of you if you had that problem? also when i sold it told me i had 25 when i really had 3445 . this is pisng me off so yea SweetCake is a Lie
Nubbinss	Posted - 2011.08.30 18:21:00 - [641] Noob here. I have searched for an answer to my trading question but did not find one, but apologies if it has been answered. I have been dabbling in trade, and have a decent working knowledge (for a noob) of the system. However, the other day, selling something into a buy order, the max buy order in the region for the item was 3400isk per... but the buy order when i hit sell was giving me 4400isk per. I had not noticed this discrepancy before, the price I was able to get for dumping an item equaled the best price reaching my location. I have regional buy/sell/adjust powers - but not 40 jumps. I have been able to see buy orders before that covered 40 jumps, so I wasn't sure if maybe there was something larger that affected the price I received for my item, that I lacked skills to visibly see. Is it possible that someone had much higher market skills than I had placed a 4400ISK buy order that for whatever reason, i was not even capable of seeing? What would account for a buy price higher than any of the visible ones I could see?
Tekota The Freighter Factory	Posted - 2011.08.31 06:57:00 - [642] Originally by: Nubbinss Noob here. I have searched for an answer to my trading question but did not find one, but apologies if it has been answered. I have been dabbling in trade, and have a decent working knowledge (for a noob) of the system. However, the other day, selling something into a buy order, the max buy order in the region for the item was 3400isk per... but the buy order when i hit sell was giving me 4400isk per. I had not noticed this discrepancy before, the price I was able to get for dumping an item equaled the best price reaching my location. I have regional buy/sell/adjust powers - but not 40 jumps. I have been able to see buy orders before that covered 40 jumps, so I wasn't sure if maybe there was something larger that affected the price I received for my item, that I lacked skills to visibly see. Is it possible that someone had much higher market skills than I had placed a 4400ISK buy order that for whatever reason, i was not even capable of seeing? What would account for a buy price higher than any of the visible ones I could see? There are no skills that relate to which market buy orders you can see and sell to - ie. everyone, regardless of SP, can sell to other people's buy orders and can see every buy order in a region. Two possibilities for what you described: Either (a) the 4400 buy order was always there but your column sorting was off (eg. you had it sorted by age or quantity or location or something other than by buy price) so you didn't see it. Or (b) somebody created their 4400 buy order just as you were clicking buttons and lining up to sell.

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