Dude. Your threads.

Ok, I'll play this one too. Faction guns are kind of a mixed bag. As you noted, they do slightly more damage up until spec 3, where they are overtaken by T2 guns. However, they sometimes have significant ancillary benefits of clip size (can be useful on occasion I guess), lower fitting (marginally useful, especially for tight PvE fits), and cap use (immensely useful if you're talking about tachyon beams). Their drawback, other than lower damage, is that they can't use T2 ammunition and are limited to T1/faction.

Faction launchers are more situationally useful. Rather than directly increasing damage the way faction guns do, they increase RoF (as do the launcher spec skills). However, good faction launchers will always have a higher RoF than T2 launchers at spec 5 -- and they have a higher capacity on top of that. So firing the same missiles, faction launchers always do more damage. T2 launchers of course retain the advantage of being able to fire T2 missiles, which is critical for unguided missiles and at least useful for guided missiles. So there's a real choice to be had there.

As to why? Because the spec skills are designed to work with T2. There's really nothing more to it. Faction offers an option for lower skilled players and allows tight fitting that otherwise wouldn't work -- that's the advantage.

Edit: as for that wasted expense: sell them. It's not like they depreciate. All you've done is limited your liquidity for a time.

Sorry I tend to be this way on every game. And i'm aware i can see it for the same price. But shouldn't the dramatically increased price give me a bigger damage increase?

Would you be against specializations benefiting faction? (You probably are) If so, why?

However, making them just as good as tech II seems like a bad idea. The already have easier fitting and use less capacitor. Giving them the same or better dps than tech II just makes tech II obsolete. (And of course, make faction weapons even more pricey.)

They should be cheaper however, no more than 3 to 4 times as expensive as their tech II counterparts.

I don't think people understand how prices work in this game. Prices are set by players. Both the sellers and buyers. Given the high price of these items it's clear they work just fine as they are. Personally I always use tech 2 use I have a fitting issue.

>Faction weapons for low skilled characters

LOL

Bring the price down if they're supposed to be for noobies

No, I don't think you understand how Eve works. Faction weapons offer improved ability over T1, but at a price. They are a way for wealthy younger players to get good performance at an increased ISK cost. They have easier fitting requirements, or cap use, which makes them easier for characters without perfect fitting/core skills. If you got the benefit of the same damage, with less cap use, or easier fitting, at a lower skill point requirement, it would just make expensive high SP fits even more OP in favor of wealthy, high SP min/maxers.

Edit - ISK cost alone is not a good balancing mechanism. See: Supercarriers and Titans.

Suddenly Caldari Navy Invulns, DG Boosters, and FN webs make so much more sense.

-Liang

I'm A-Ok with faction weapons getting the use of the spec skill and being able to use T2 ammo.

-Liang

Deadspace is better than T2.

Faction is more like T1.5.

Generally:
Use faction until you have the skills to use T2, use T2 until you have the ISK to use deadspace/pirate


[EDIT] Clearly some exceptions exist, but that is why I said 'generally'.

So how come with Large Autocannon Spec IV, my tech 2 800mm repeatings do less damage than the faction one? With the same faction EMP?

According to EFT

Deadspace is better than T2.

Faction is more like T1.5.

Generally:
Use faction until you have the skills to use T2, use T2 until you have the ISK to use deadspace/pirate


[EDIT] Clearly some exceptions exist, but that is why I said 'generally'.

T1 faction should stay as they are. CCP should add new faction t2 mods like a Caldari Navy Cruise Missle Launcher II, or a Fed Navy Neutron Blaster II.

Only those would be able to benefit off of spec skills.

Just for badassness, a Federation Navy Stasis Webifier II (the sqeekuel).

So how come with Large Autocannon Spec IV, my tech 2 800mm repeatings do less damage than the faction one? With the same faction EMP?

According to EFT

After a wasted expense, I realized that faction weapons do not benefit from specialization skills (derp). However, why is this? This has probably been mentioned before.

I know this calls into question the entire premise of the faction system, but why should t2's ever do more damage than faction? They cost upwards of 30 times more isk than t2's, and you get fitting bonuses? It seems like this current layout only benefits rich players who don't want to take the time to train, and that's a very low portion.


Thoughts/Criticisms?

But it can't use Barrage, therefore it sucks.

-Liang