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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.23 09:59:00 -
[31]
The cap bonus simply rules on an Apoc, not to mention the extreme grid. Sure, the Armageddon looks awesome and i miss flying it.
I can sit in a belt and let the npc's orbit me at their optimal and still not break a sweat (even with heavy spawns). Arma's have a big battle to fight with their cap hp and i'm honestly just too lazy for that :)
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.23 09:59:00 -
[32]
The cap bonus simply rules on an Apoc, not to mention the extreme grid. Sure, the Armageddon looks awesome and i miss flying it.
I can sit in a belt and let the npc's orbit me at their optimal and still not break a sweat (even with heavy spawns). Arma's have a big battle to fight with their cap hp and i'm honestly just too lazy for that :)
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 16:59:00 -
[33]
Mega Pulse:
3x dmg mod
28km range
8km falloff
0.027 tracking
7.88 rof
50 cpu
2,500 grid
Dual Heavy Beam:
2x dmg mod
32km range
2km falloff
0.017 tracking
7.22 rof
45 cpu
1,750 grid
So better range and rof on the duals, but much better damage over time with the mega pulse with a significant boost to tracking(which, due to the recent patch is absolutely essential).
Can you fit 7 in a armageddon? Absoultely. 16,500 grid goes to 20,625 with engineering 5. And that 50 cpu per goes down to 40 with weapons upgrade 4. So 7 will take 280 cpu and 17,500 grid. Which leaves you more then enough for the all the other mods you need. Can't use 2 large armor repairers, of course, but using 2 is stupid. Either use a hardener or put in a cap relay.
Boils down to:
7 mega pulse
1 mwd
1 cap rechargers
1 Tracking computer
1 large rep
1 hardener
1 heat sink
5 cap relays
Tons of cap, decent tanking ability and much much MUCH better damage.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 16:59:00 -
[34]
Mega Pulse:
3x dmg mod
28km range
8km falloff
0.027 tracking
7.88 rof
50 cpu
2,500 grid
Dual Heavy Beam:
2x dmg mod
32km range
2km falloff
0.017 tracking
7.22 rof
45 cpu
1,750 grid
So better range and rof on the duals, but much better damage over time with the mega pulse with a significant boost to tracking(which, due to the recent patch is absolutely essential).
Can you fit 7 in a armageddon? Absoultely. 16,500 grid goes to 20,625 with engineering 5. And that 50 cpu per goes down to 40 with weapons upgrade 4. So 7 will take 280 cpu and 17,500 grid. Which leaves you more then enough for the all the other mods you need. Can't use 2 large armor repairers, of course, but using 2 is stupid. Either use a hardener or put in a cap relay.
Boils down to:
7 mega pulse
1 mwd
1 cap rechargers
1 Tracking computer
1 large rep
1 hardener
1 heat sink
5 cap relays
Tons of cap, decent tanking ability and much much MUCH better damage.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.23 18:49:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: StinkFinger
Can't use 2 large armor repairers, of course, but using 2 is stupid. Either use a hardener or put in a cap relay.
I disagree. I used to use hardeners, didn't notice a difference. Two large repairers do use more cap but you don't have to cycle them both that many times. I find it nice to cycle one about half way through the cycle of the other. Works great. One armor repairer on the Arma was not enough. I had to run it constantly and I still could not stay ahead of the damage, even with hardeners.
Bottom line is my setup works in practice, not theory.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.23 18:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: StinkFinger
Can't use 2 large armor repairers, of course, but using 2 is stupid. Either use a hardener or put in a cap relay.
I disagree. I used to use hardeners, didn't notice a difference. Two large repairers do use more cap but you don't have to cycle them both that many times. I find it nice to cycle one about half way through the cycle of the other. Works great. One armor repairer on the Arma was not enough. I had to run it constantly and I still could not stay ahead of the damage, even with hardeners.
Bottom line is my setup works in practice, not theory.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 21:55:00 -
[37]
Mine works better.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.23 21:55:00 -
[38]
Mine works better.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.23 23:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: StinkFinger
Mine works better.
Maybe on weaker spawns it does. One harderner and one large repairer won't hold up against two 750k rats at 30k. I know from experience. Two large repairers will.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.23 23:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: StinkFinger
Mine works better.
Maybe on weaker spawns it does. One harderner and one large repairer won't hold up against two 750k rats at 30k. I know from experience. Two large repairers will.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.23 23:10:00 -
[41]
2 armor reps work better than 1 armor rep and 2 hardeners.
But... 2 armor reps and 2 hardeners work better than 3 armor reps.
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.23 23:10:00 -
[42]
2 armor reps work better than 1 armor rep and 2 hardeners.
But... 2 armor reps and 2 hardeners work better than 3 armor reps.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.23 23:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
2 armor reps work better than 1 armor rep and 2 hardeners.
But... 2 armor reps and 2 hardeners work better than 3 armor reps.
Yep, just as my experience has indicated. Except for three repairers, never actually tried to take it that far. Two hardeners and two large repairers is what I would consider to be an actual "tank", maybe three hardeners. One repairer and one hardner is just silly. Why bother? Just put on a bunch of tachs, tracking computers and sensor boosters and kill the rats from 150km.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.23 23:46:00 -
[44]
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
2 armor reps work better than 1 armor rep and 2 hardeners.
But... 2 armor reps and 2 hardeners work better than 3 armor reps.
Yep, just as my experience has indicated. Except for three repairers, never actually tried to take it that far. Two hardeners and two large repairers is what I would consider to be an actual "tank", maybe three hardeners. One repairer and one hardner is just silly. Why bother? Just put on a bunch of tachs, tracking computers and sensor boosters and kill the rats from 150km.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.24 00:44:00 -
[45]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 24/07/2004 00:45:38
1 armor rep + 1 hardener geared towards the type of damage the rat you're hunting does is more then enough to deal with spawns up to and including 1 mil bounties.
For example, against an angel commanders, I use a kinetic hardener + a large accomadation repairer....tanked that for a about 40 minutes, since I couldn't do enough damage to take him out (was using a mega beam/tachyon setup...didn't realize those guys had so high em/therm resistances).
Will 2 repairers work better?
Probably.
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
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StinkFinger
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Posted - 2004.07.24 00:44:00 -
[46]
Edited by: StinkFinger on 24/07/2004 00:45:38
1 armor rep + 1 hardener geared towards the type of damage the rat you're hunting does is more then enough to deal with spawns up to and including 1 mil bounties.
For example, against an angel commanders, I use a kinetic hardener + a large accomadation repairer....tanked that for a about 40 minutes, since I couldn't do enough damage to take him out (was using a mega beam/tachyon setup...didn't realize those guys had so high em/therm resistances).
Will 2 repairers work better?
Probably.
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
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Hotice
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Posted - 2004.07.24 04:47:00 -
[47]
Could put in 1 Large armor repair and 1 tech 2 medium armor repair. Save some PG and CPU pretty much same effect. Would also be good to use 1 tech 2 large armor repair and 1 tech 2 medium armor repair. This twin tech 2 setup is the one I'm using and have great effect.
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Hotice
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Posted - 2004.07.24 04:47:00 -
[48]
Could put in 1 Large armor repair and 1 tech 2 medium armor repair. Save some PG and CPU pretty much same effect. Would also be good to use 1 tech 2 large armor repair and 1 tech 2 medium armor repair. This twin tech 2 setup is the one I'm using and have great effect.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.24 07:09:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:41
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:10
Originally by: StinkFinger
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
Well on my setup I have no problems taking out 1 mil isk rats with radio crystals. What you should do is take the damage modifier and ROF of my named guns, factor in my two heatsink 2s, and my skills and then figure out if I am doing more DOT with my seven Dual Modal Beams than you are with a Tach/Mega Beam setup, your skills and your single heatsink. Then get back to me.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.24 07:09:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:41
Edited by: Alowishus on 24/07/2004 07:11:10
Originally by: StinkFinger
Are 2 repairers worth the damage nerf you'll take since you have to use those lame dual beams?
Nope.
Well on my setup I have no problems taking out 1 mil isk rats with radio crystals. What you should do is take the damage modifier and ROF of my named guns, factor in my two heatsink 2s, and my skills and then figure out if I am doing more DOT with my seven Dual Modal Beams than you are with a Tach/Mega Beam setup, your skills and your single heatsink. Then get back to me.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.07.24 11:45:00 -
[51]
myself i got 6 mega beams fitted, a single tech2 damage mod, and i went with the 1 large armor rep 3hardeners version.......and it only took me one pdu.
only have a small smartbomb fitted, but the damn frigs nearly never close down to 4.5 or so for me to hit for real, so i went with a small one simply for a lil missle defense and fun :D (oh yeah i got one med beam laser on that rig too, it can take off a frigs shields for the drones :D)
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Man'corr
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Posted - 2004.07.24 11:45:00 -
[52]
myself i got 6 mega beams fitted, a single tech2 damage mod, and i went with the 1 large armor rep 3hardeners version.......and it only took me one pdu.
only have a small smartbomb fitted, but the damn frigs nearly never close down to 4.5 or so for me to hit for real, so i went with a small one simply for a lil missle defense and fun :D (oh yeah i got one med beam laser on that rig too, it can take off a frigs shields for the drones :D)
All of above post was formulated wth 100% honesty and 100% sarcasm. Now i only need to get drunk
The 3rd turret is the Malediction is missing. Plz make as much noise as possible so that CCP gets us a remedy for that, possibly before X-Mas this year. |
Shirei
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Posted - 2004.07.24 12:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: fras
I've tested the following which works ok:
hi: 7x megapulse
med: 2x cap recharger, 1x scrambler
lo: 1x L armour rep, 3x hardner, 4x T2 damage mod.
Do you have all named guns or how do you fit that? Even with weapon upgrades 5 that would be short like 50 CPU.
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Shirei
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Posted - 2004.07.24 12:25:00 -
[54]
Originally by: fras
I've tested the following which works ok:
hi: 7x megapulse
med: 2x cap recharger, 1x scrambler
lo: 1x L armour rep, 3x hardner, 4x T2 damage mod.
Do you have all named guns or how do you fit that? Even with weapon upgrades 5 that would be short like 50 CPU.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.24 19:42:00 -
[55]
Originally by: fras
I've tested the following which works ok:
hi: 7x megapulse
med: 2x cap recharger, 1x scrambler
lo: 1x L armour rep, 3x hardner, 4x T2 damage mod.
That ain't gonna fly Orvolle. The Arma has 562.5 CPU with max skills and that setup uses 610-615 depending on skills.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.24 19:42:00 -
[56]
Originally by: fras
I've tested the following which works ok:
hi: 7x megapulse
med: 2x cap recharger, 1x scrambler
lo: 1x L armour rep, 3x hardner, 4x T2 damage mod.
That ain't gonna fly Orvolle. The Arma has 562.5 CPU with max skills and that setup uses 610-615 depending on skills.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.24 21:49:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
2 armor reps work better than 1 armor rep and 2 hardeners.
But... 2 armor reps and 2 hardeners work better than 3 armor reps.
Yep, just as my experience has indicated. Except for three repairers, never actually tried to take it that far. Two hardeners and two large repairers is what I would consider to be an actual "tank", maybe three hardeners. One repairer and one hardner is just silly. Why bother? Just put on a bunch of tachs, tracking computers and sensor boosters and kill the rats from 150km.
2 large acco's and 3 hardeners (what i'm running for a while now) is a dream. 2x thermic 1x EM, which give 80% resistance to both and is good for sansha's and bloods (my part of space).
Btw, what that other guy said that one repairer with some hardeners is enough.. no way, unless you keep MWD'ing out of their (the npc's) optimal, but once you get webbed by a "1x 1.5mil 2x 1mil and some frigates", or stumble on a commander you're in serious trouble.
Imo, the apoc is the only one that can tank that nicely and still pack the punch needed to kill the spawn. With an arma, choices have to be made due to cap: go for damage or go for tank.
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SKiNNiEH
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Posted - 2004.07.24 21:49:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
2 armor reps work better than 1 armor rep and 2 hardeners.
But... 2 armor reps and 2 hardeners work better than 3 armor reps.
Yep, just as my experience has indicated. Except for three repairers, never actually tried to take it that far. Two hardeners and two large repairers is what I would consider to be an actual "tank", maybe three hardeners. One repairer and one hardner is just silly. Why bother? Just put on a bunch of tachs, tracking computers and sensor boosters and kill the rats from 150km.
2 large acco's and 3 hardeners (what i'm running for a while now) is a dream. 2x thermic 1x EM, which give 80% resistance to both and is good for sansha's and bloods (my part of space).
Btw, what that other guy said that one repairer with some hardeners is enough.. no way, unless you keep MWD'ing out of their (the npc's) optimal, but once you get webbed by a "1x 1.5mil 2x 1mil and some frigates", or stumble on a commander you're in serious trouble.
Imo, the apoc is the only one that can tank that nicely and still pack the punch needed to kill the spawn. With an arma, choices have to be made due to cap: go for damage or go for tank.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.24 22:26:00 -
[59]
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
Imo, the apoc is the only one that can tank that nicely and still pack the punch needed to kill the spawn. With an arma, choices have to be made due to cap: go for damage or go for tank.
Agreed. I think I've done everything I can do with the Arma. I was planning on retiring it and getting an Apoc. It's still a good ship though.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2004.07.24 22:26:00 -
[60]
Originally by: SKiNNiEH
Imo, the apoc is the only one that can tank that nicely and still pack the punch needed to kill the spawn. With an arma, choices have to be made due to cap: go for damage or go for tank.
Agreed. I think I've done everything I can do with the Arma. I was planning on retiring it and getting an Apoc. It's still a good ship though.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
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