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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
421
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Posted - 2012.05.09 01:42:00 -
[301] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Everything that creats ISK in the game is an ISK faucet. Mining is an ISK faucet. Salvaging. ISK faucet. Ratting is an ISK faucet...
Sleeper loot is also an ISK faucet. WH's aren't getting nerfed because...
THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM! The risk vs. reward in WH space is balanced.
And no...WH sleeper loot does not generate more ISK than Incursions. CCP has already stated this. Stop trying to say otherwise. Just because you keep saying it does not make it any more true. You are wrong about what an isk faucet is, and you are wrong about blue loot $ not exceeding incursions.
Wanna go for the trifecta?
Darth - WH's aren't getting nerfed, because there are more people running WH's in addition to those living in them. Isk is further spread out amongst more people.
Also - it is *more* dangerous in WH's.
If you can't wrap your little head around that - uninstall - that's all i got.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
185
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Posted - 2012.05.09 07:02:00 -
[302] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote: You are wrong about what an isk faucet is, and you are wrong about blue loot $ not exceeding incursions.
.
Huh? CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
34
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Posted - 2012.05.09 07:30:00 -
[303] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Mars Theran wrote:are you sure some of those numbers weren't from a full year?10 trillion? 8 trillion? I'm pretty certain the fanfest video listed those off as last years annual influx from those sources. Let me check. edit.. monthly averages, as suggested. Surprising amount of ISK, but if you look here it isn't exactly out of balance, and look at the bounties which should now be higher as a result of Drone Region nerfs. The numbers quoted were not a monthly average for blue loot & Incursion payouts. In the fanfet presentation I recall december was said to be the busiest month for incursion runners. February wasa shortened month. Before farming a month before Incarna came out WH ISK injection dwarfed Incursion payouts& inlation really started in earnest a month before the Incursion sites opened up. Will be interesting to see how much drone bounties increase ISK injection but I hear ( second hand ) they are not that great. inflation started getting worse as incursion came out, isnt it notable??? |
Samillian
Moonshine Industries The Last Chancers.
137
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 08:55:00 -
[304] - Quote
You Incursion runners have been sucking on the low risk ISK tit a while now and you never expected it to change?
Get real, the change to Incursions is as nothing to the Sanctum nerf that wiped many small Null Alliances out of existence. Vanguards still pay more than lvl 4 missions and the fact that you have to work harder for your ISK is no bad thing.
Just because your little bit of EvE was heavily out of balance in regards to risk vs reward and needed rebalancing does not automatically mean everyone else in the game should suffer.
Grow up, grow a pair and move to a into a wormhole if you think you can earn more there rather than having an infantile rant all over the forums. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:52:00 -
[305] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:quote] inflation started getting worse as incursion came out, isnt it notable???
Incorrect Inflation started getting worse BEFORE Incursions came out
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1203/EveInflation_2010-2012.gif CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 17:57:00 -
[306] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Apolyon I wrote:quote] inflation started getting worse as incursion came out, isnt it notable??? Incorrect Inflation started getting worse BEFORE Incursions came out Good thing the incursion nerf was to address the ****** up state of risk/reward, and not as a hotfix to inflation then.
Also, anyone interested in a quick break down of why darth's statistics suck, scroll to top of page. I will be reposting that information periodically as he repeatedly tries to bury it with necro ship toasting.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
MortisLegati
Caldari War Materiel
1
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Posted - 2012.05.09 17:59:00 -
[307] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Ocih wrote:Nerf Jove space too. Its my understanding Jove space was nerfed when CCP laid off a bunch of co-workers after the Incarna fiasco late last year & WiS & WoD got axed
I can already tell you're not paying attention right here.
Also, people need to learn that ISK Faucet means NPCs adding ISK into the game by giving it to players and an ISK Sink is NPCs taking ISK out of the game by taking it from players. Inter-player trade has nothing to do with sinking or adding ISK to the game. The economy is bigger than you, kthx.
Done with this thread. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:03:00 -
[308] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: Also, anyone interested in a quick break down of why darth's statistics suck, scroll to top of page. I will be reposting that information periodically as he repeatedly tries to bury it with necro ship toasting.
I'd start reposting of your statistics but there are not any
CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Antisocial Malkavian
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
74
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:05:00 -
[309] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:
-I am not exagerating. Blue loot is a bigger ISK injector then Incursion payouts.
-CCP's Escalation to Inferno NERFing b!tch slapped HI SEC (thru Incursion site time increases) & Lo SEC (Drone poo anhilation& Incursions NERF) PvE Incomes yet left W-Space scot free. Expect a mass migration there over the summer.
I love your raging all over the forum. all CCP did is putting incursion into its right place. stop blaming them
theres a reason I dont see anything this guy says but a red bar.
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.2317/JKES0811.17.1 Bees That Drink Human Tears -- ITS SCIENCE!!! |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 18:08:00 -
[310] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I'd start reposting of your statistics but there are not any
DarthNefarius wrote:Listen to Dr E you obviously haven't... he states in the writing of a graph the percentage of Eve doing incursion he also states the number of peeps living in WH's ( ergo the the number of people doing sites is less unless 100% of them are). This is kind of the point, you've clearly never run wormholes, yet have chosen to comment on them. The number of people running wormhole sites is not <= the number of people living in them.
People scan down sites in high sec, jump in and run c1/c2 wormholes in their drakes or overpriced tengus. Similarly, people scan down C3s in low sec and do the same, a lot of major null sec alliances scan down c5/c6 whs and have entire capital ops where they jump in and clear capital escalation sites. In fact recently I think -A- took over a few WH systems for this very purpose.
None of these people live in wormholes, they live in high sec, low sec and null sec, yet they likely contribute just as much to the total amount of blue loot farmed as any WH dweller. And this is why your stats are completely useless, because the number of people living in wormholes, which is hard to calculate accurately anyway, is not even remotely related to the number of people raiding wormholes for PvE content.
DarthNefarius wrote:If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space. If you're talking about the graph showing the number of incursions runners that is fairly useless for your purposes for the reason stated above. But, assuming it was useful, that looks like ~17,000 people running incursions, right?
How many active subscribers does Eve online have? >400,000 as of last month? And 5.4% of them are in wormholes?
400,000 x 0.054 = 21,600
So there are 4,000 more people "living" in wormholes, than there are running incursions? Oh wow, and people raid WHs on top of that?
Now GTFO Darth and never try and use statistics to support your terrible ideas again.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
606
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:14:00 -
[311] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:[quote=DarthNefarius][quote=Derth Ramir]
You also have to consider time investment here. Wormholers probably have one of the highest time requirements placed on them with regard to managing their POSs, mining Gasses, Scanning, and running Sleeper sites which aren't exactly as common as missions or even remotely frequent spawners. Then there is just general time spent scouting and watching and spying/surveiling, which accounts for almost half of any wormholers time in game provided they actually make an effort and don't just show up to blow up Sleepers.
In all, it has a high burnout factor for anyone that actually invests in it actively in game, and you want to take away the one relatively guaranteed payout for all that time invested. Good job. Wormholes pale in comparison to null sec sov holding in terms of costs incurred.
And we're forced to sell our harvested resources on the market just like everyone else. No NPC buy orders outside the overseers artifacts which are rare.
It's not rocket surgery. |
Ayn Randy
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
7
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Posted - 2012.05.09 18:21:00 -
[312] - Quote
Wormholes vs Incursions comes down to Risk vs Reward.
In wormholes, you could lose everything. Doing highsec incursions your pretty safe hoarding your isk.
Wormholes wont get nerfed, if you wanna make the kinda isk they make then why dont you take the same risks? |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 18:46:00 -
[313] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Mars Theran wrote:[quote=DarthNefarius][quote=Derth Ramir]
You also have to consider time investment here. Wormholers probably have one of the highest time requirements placed on them with regard to managing their POSs, mining Gasses, Scanning, and running Sleeper sites which aren't exactly as common as missions or even remotely frequent spawners. Then there is just general time spent scouting and watching and spying/surveiling, which accounts for almost half of any wormholers time in game provided they actually make an effort and don't just show up to blow up Sleepers.
In all, it has a high burnout factor for anyone that actually invests in it actively in game, and you want to take away the one relatively guaranteed payout for all that time invested. Good job. Wormholes pale in comparison to null sec sov holding in terms of costs incurred. And we're forced to sell our harvested resources on the market just like everyone else. No NPC buy orders outside the overseers artifacts which are rare. Overseers artifacts? You mean the personal effects from rated sites? I used to get about 7 or more of them a day when I was in sov null :) I did have one hell of a system for farming rated sites though :P and they do need to be transported for sale, unlike incursion payouts.
But mainly just the sheer effort required to find and run the sites far exceeds the effort required to farm incursions.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:09:00 -
[314] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:[How many active subscribers does Eve online have? >400,000 as of last month? And 5.4% of them are in wormholes?
400,000 x 0.054 = 21,600
So there are 4,000 more people "living" in wormholes, than there are running incursions? Oh wow, and people raid WHs on top of that?
Now GTFO Darth and never try and use statistics to support your terrible ideas again.
Go read Q4 QEN 2010 in order to figure out how the numbers of residents in Wormholes is calculated. Dr E's chart in fanfest 2012 said 5% of Eve's characters were running Incursions too. CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 22:16:00 -
[315] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:[How many active subscribers does Eve online have? >400,000 as of last month? And 5.4% of them are in wormholes?
400,000 x 0.054 = 21,600
So there are 4,000 more people "living" in wormholes, than there are running incursions? Oh wow, and people raid WHs on top of that?
Now GTFO Darth and never try and use statistics to support your terrible ideas again.
Go read Q4 QEN 2010 in order to figure out how the numbers of residents in Wormholes is calculated. Dr E's chart in fanfest 2012 said 5% of Eve's characters were running Incursions too. The data I used was from sources linked and used by yourself, I did these quick calculations purely to show the errors in your own calculations that used the same data.
I have no idea if the results are actually accurate, CCP statistics tend to have enormous unspecified margins of error, they fluctuate wildly between various posts and the methodology by which CCP arrives at them is often never explained.
And you still don't understand that the number of people running wormhole sites is greater than the number living in them. Genius.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
35
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Posted - 2012.05.09 22:47:00 -
[316] - Quote
as far as I see, inflation getting worse when ppl started farming the f out of incursion.
why didnt inflation started right when incursion was out??? Because ppl didnt know how to farm them back there.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:26:00 -
[317] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:as far as I see, inflation getting worse when ppl started farming the f out of incursion. why didnt inflation started right when incursion was out??? Because ppl didnt know how to farm them back there.
Put your glasses on & look at the chart again. The big inflation spike started before Incursion sites were introduced. There was actually a deflationary period the 1-2 months after the farming agreement was put in place in late April early May. Then there was another spike again in september. Farming was started in earnest in May with an agreement between the armor & shield fleets. CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:30:00 -
[318] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:
The data I used was from sources linked and used by yourself, I did these quick calculations purely to show the errors in your own calculations that used the same data.
No it wasn't you lie. Your statistics are way off & further show how of the mark your assumptions are. CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
968
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:51:00 -
[319] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Simi Kusoni wrote:
The data I used was from sources linked and used by yourself, I did these quick calculations purely to show the errors in your own calculations that used the same data.
No it wasn't you lie. Your statistics are way off & further show how of the mark your assumptions are. All of the statistics used to disprove your analysis came from the sources that you yourself used:
*Just to clarify these above are the sources you posted, exactly how you posted them in this post.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
970
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 23:58:00 -
[320] - Quote
And just to unbury it (again) here is the specific part of my post disproving your analysis using that data:
DarthNefarius wrote:If you cannot connect the dots & do the math I suggest remedial algebra. So where are your numbers comming from ( oh wait there are no numbers so yours are straight outta your bum ) It would be nice if there was a published number of peeps doing WH sites but the numbers he provides just shows the people doing Incursion sites ( HI/LO/NULL ) vs the number living in WH space. If you're talking about the graph showing the number of incursions runners that is fairly useless for your purposes for the reason stated above. But, assuming it was useful, that looks like ~17,000 people running incursions, right?
How many active subscribers does Eve online have? >400,000 as of last month? And 5.4% of them are in wormholes?
400,000 x 0.054 = 21,600
So there are 4,000 more people "living" in wormholes, than there are running incursions? Oh wow, and people raid WHs on top of that?
Now GTFO Darth and never try and use statistics to support your terrible ideas again.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
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Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
223
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 08:48:00 -
[321] - Quote
This guy hates anything that affects his precious little incursion running. Stupidly arrogant and stubborn too. Generally, if EVERYONE disagrees with you, it isn't everyone else. Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4179
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 09:25:00 -
[322] - Quote
i see you're still upset over your safe little isk farming being nerfed "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
164
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 09:58:00 -
[323] - Quote
Andski wrote:i see you're still upset over your safe little isk farming being nerfed
Darth nefarius has no wormhole knowledge therefore cannot really comment and is merely throwing his toys out of the pram because incursions got nerfed. Risk vs. Reward and considering capitals are often used in the higher classes with the potential for wormholes to spawn in from anywhere at any time its as risky as it gets.
Edit: damn autocorrect lol |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
186
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 16:54:00 -
[324] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Andski wrote:i see you're still upset over your safe little isk farming being nerfed Darth nefarius has no wormhole knowledge therefore cannot really comment and is merely throwing his toys out of the pram because incursions got nerfed. Risk vs. Reward and considering capitals are often used in the higher classes with the potential for wormholes to spawn in from anywhere at any time its as risky as it gets. Edit: damn autocorrect lol
I know enough how to read statistics & numbers Seany... so how many characters do you believe reside in W-Space? CCP Soundwave "Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally" |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
970
|
Posted - 2012.05.10 17:03:00 -
[325] - Quote
Darth stop evading it every time you get your arse handed to you in a debate, and either post a logical and reasoned argument or just accept defeat.
Face it, you've lost this thread. You may as well let it die rather than continuously post empty comments. To be honest I am surprised CCP haven't locked it yet.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
224
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 08:36:00 -
[326] - Quote
Darth reminds me of a guy I attacked who informed me that him self-destructing his thanatos in his POS was a win. 1 - 0. Past stubborn, these guys are delusional. Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |
Michael1995
Lead Farmers Academy Kill It With Fire
14
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Posted - 2012.05.11 08:59:00 -
[327] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:
-I am not exagerating. Blue loot is a bigger ISK injector then Incursion payouts.
-CCP's Escalation to Inferno NERFing b!tch slapped HI SEC (thru Incursion site time increases) & Lo SEC (Drone poo anhilation& Incursions NERF) PvE Incomes yet left W-Space scot free. Expect a mass migration there over the summer.
Blue loot is a bigger ISK injector because MORE people are RUNNING the sites to GET them!
So more people are coming to Wormholes? Are you joining them? If so, more targets for us!
Kthxbai! One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
Sirinda
Lead Farmers Academy Kill It With Fire
93
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 09:03:00 -
[328] - Quote
Definitely bigger than you incursion payouts, Darth. |
Aron Croup
Incompatible Protocol Bittervet Mercenaries
94
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Posted - 2012.05.11 09:13:00 -
[329] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Incursions getting nerfed & drone alloys getting nerfed why are the blue loot NPC buy orders not getting nerfed to to help with the inflation?!?! The Pax Amarrian nerf was a good precendent of a NPC sell order which was balanced next the sleeper blue loot NPC buy order should be cut in the name of balance. A possible bounty 10% cut is being thrown around too by CCP Soundwave. Only one currenntly smelling like a rose is the Wormhole residents with the Escalation to Inferno. Lets have the current inflation mean the end fo Empire NPC's no longer being able to affford to buy sleeper crap (NPC buy orders) which is non ribbons (blue loot) which acually adds something to Eve & empire ( at least with Incursions Capsuleers are providing a service to Empire residents what has blueloot added to Empire's security? ) . LETS HAVE EVERYONE FEEL THE PAIN OF ESCALATING INFERNO[:!: A pox on EVERYONE'S house
Sleepers do not have bounties, which is why they drop the blue loot. CCP Soundwave merely mentioned that at some point in the future it may become necessary to cut bounties by 10% but that doesn't mean they won't cut blue loot drops by 10% at the same time.
Other than that, there is still the risk vs reward element. Wormholes are a lot more dangerous to operate in than doing incursions in high-sec or ratting in null-sec. You cannot miss using your d-scan, even for just 30 seconds without risking losing all your ships, as there is no other warning that you are about to be attacked, not to mention that the cost of living in a wormhole is significantly higher than the cost of living in empire.
All in all, you sound pretty butthurt and I don't see the merit in your argument that because one ISK income is nerfed all others should be nerfed as well.
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Samillian
Moonshine Industries The Last Chancers.
140
|
Posted - 2012.05.11 10:29:00 -
[330] - Quote
Aron Croup wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Incursions getting nerfed & drone alloys getting nerfed why are the blue loot NPC buy orders not getting nerfed to to help with the inflation?!?! The Pax Amarrian nerf was a good precendent of a NPC sell order which was balanced next the sleeper blue loot NPC buy order should be cut in the name of balance. A possible bounty 10% cut is being thrown around too by CCP Soundwave. Only one currenntly smelling like a rose is the Wormhole residents with the Escalation to Inferno. Lets have the current inflation mean the end fo Empire NPC's no longer being able to affford to buy sleeper crap (NPC buy orders) which is non ribbons (blue loot) which acually adds something to Eve & empire ( at least with Incursions Capsuleers are providing a service to Empire residents what has blueloot added to Empire's security? ) . LETS HAVE EVERYONE FEEL THE PAIN OF ESCALATING INFERNO[:!: A pox on EVERYONE'S house Sleepers do not have bounties, which is why they drop the blue loot. CCP Soundwave merely mentioned that at some point in the future it may become necessary to cut bounties by 10% but that doesn't mean they won't cut blue loot drops by 10% at the same time. Other than that, there is still the risk vs reward element. Wormholes are a lot more dangerous to operate in than doing incursions in high-sec or ratting in null-sec. You cannot miss using your d-scan, even for just 30 seconds without risking losing all your ships, as there is no other warning that you are about to be attacked, not to mention that the cost of living in a wormhole is significantly higher than the cost of living in empire. All in all, you sound pretty butthurt and I don't see the merit in your argument that because one ISK income is nerfed all others should be nerfed as well.
Your wasting your time I'm afraid, Darth ignores completely any post that brings up the higher risks and logistical costs or difficulties of living in WH space and concentrates only on the potential ISK earned. He doesn't believe in taking into consideration any facts that might detract from his argument.
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