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Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.10 22:07:00 - [1] http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=21953&start=450 13 Titans in one system. Do the Dev's even care how badly broken Titans are making their game any more? Do they even both to read the various battle report forums? I suppose CCP MIGHT do something once 16 titans light up their DDD's and vaporize a capfleet. Maybe when the box gets released and reviewers pan their games over things like this we might see some action.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.11 04:08:00 - [2] Edited by: Grarr Dexx on 11/01/2009 04:13:20 And everyone wants to bring out 15+ titans with HICs being as common as they are now a massive capfleet ready to bash their face in if everything goes awry.
Zeveron Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.11 05:38:00 - [3] Yeah and warping a titan on a dread fleet is w/o any danger. 3x dreads can kill a titan if its tackled. 24 titans should be able to kill a cap fleet, like 50 bs can kill a dread. the question is if this can happen, bcs of varius reasons ________________________________________________
esc shk	Posted - 2009.01.11 09:51:00 - [4] Cry me a river build a bridge and get over it? It's a fact of the game. Titans are there for building and piloting. Do you not want them anymore? All the other caps would start getting piloted instead. If it needed to be fixed there would be a next step up from titan.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.11 09:54:00 - [5] Quote: PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:02 am author: Sith8 Some hectic program for all involved, runnin around southern regions in what seems to be an effort by GS/Friends to do a two pronged attack. Lots of pew pew for everybody and seems that we are really gettin our moneys worth for our subs. Good times, too bad my now late carrier disagrees. (thanx Dungar) Ruff overview of the night for our side; we got word that NC wanted to violate our installations in northern Catch (F4R and that area) so our support went there to deal with them, meanwhile MM/KIA seemed to have a keen interest in HED so we put up a pretty nice deterrant in the form of approx 13 Titans in system, it worked and MM/KIA buggered off to Querious to harass some GBC folks. Later on it was GS turn as now US TZ was gettin into full swing, so off to RIT the parade went and pew pewed with GS/PL for awhile, some DD went off some kills, some losses. Any sp errors or other errors of any kind can be blamed on my sleepyness and the fact that I ran out of coffie. So Against All Authorities has 13 titans?
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 13:31:00 - [6] They have a lot more, like any bigger alliance out there. The game has reached a point where it becomes more and more obvious, that both supercaps are simply crap. MS don't scale well. The bigger the fight, the more and more useless they get. Titans don't scale well either, the more titans you have, the more idiotic things you can do with them. DDing entire capfleets is only one of them. Titans in their current for are utterly idiotic, from about any game design perspective i can think of. They don't even encourage pewpew, on the contrary. A few bubbles and a few nanotitans plus a cynojammer, and you can effectively block a whole system, a whole constellation, or even a whole region, depending on jumproute layouts.. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Zeveron Yeah and warping a titan on a dread fleet is w/o any danger. 3x dreads can kill a titan if its tackled. 24 titans should be able to kill a cap fleet, like 50 bs can kill a dread. the question is if this can happen, bcs of varius reasons If you want to use that comparison, Doomsdays should be changed from a single AoE damage event to a single-target, damage-over-time weapon. Of course, that would invalidate the win button you are trying to accomplish, but don't let logic stand in the way of your lovely thinking.
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:38:00 - [8] Edited by: Aleyra Mel on 11/01/2009 21:39:22 Originally by: Zeveron Yeah and warping a titan on a dread fleet is w/o any danger. 3x dreads can kill a titan if its tackled. 24 titans should be able to kill a cap fleet, like 50 bs can kill a dread. the question is if this can happen, bcs of varius reasons Every ship has danger when it warps to battle, titans cannot be the exception. But there is a flaw with what you say. 3x dreads can kill a single titan if its tackled. Although im not sure if 3 dreads are enough but ill just follow your logic. But 24 titans wont kill a single dread, they will kill the whole dread fleet. 50 bs will again kill a single dread, not the whole dread fleet. See now that there is indeed a problem here? Also to the OP. You really think people care about titans? I posted a thread in features and ideas forum about changing the doomsday weapon to a module similar to stealth bomber bombs. So you have to launch one by one the dds. And that will give plenty of time to the fleet to get out, unless of course they are heavily tackled. Problem is none really cared to discuss my idea and/or post some different ideas. Topic had only 2 replies and 100 views, and the topic now is at 8th page.... You see? Noone really cares. Why CCP change it when topics like those get so few answers?... So yes there is a problem. But people dont care to be fixed, so i dont see the reason for all those dd-nerf posts tbh. I did my part, trying to help getting fixed, and had no support....
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Aleyra Mel But 24 titans wont kill a single dread, they will kill the whole dread fleet. 24 titans cost what?, and how many BS or dreads could i have for that money?. Cos i bet if i spent the amount it cost to buy and fit 24 titans on dreads or BS i could wipe out a few fleets with them.......
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:51:00 - [10] So its just a matter of money? If that ship costs more it has to be able to kill cheaper ships? My bs costs 100m but i can hardly kill a 20m ceptor. Why? Also when you pay 60b for the titan you dont buy the dd only, you buy the jump bridge, you buy the gang bonus, you buy the clone bay etc...
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.11 21:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Aleyra Mel So its just a matter of money? If that ship costs more it has to be able to kill cheaper ships? Not necessarily but its not a bad idea, considering this is a pvp game being "able" to kill things is rather expected. Originally by: Aleyra Mel My bs costs 100m but i can hardly kill a 20m ceptor. Why? A BS can easily kills a ceptor, if you cannot you need to check your fittings and drones. Originally by: Aleyra Mel Also when you pay 60b for the titan you don't buy the dd only, you buy the jump bridge, you buy the gang bonus, you buy the clone bay etc... So?.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:02:00 - [12] ISK should never be an i-win button, and in all areas of eve it isn't, but for titans it should be? Rrright.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.11 22:10:00 - [13] Edited by: lebrata on 11/01/2009 22:12:31 Originally by: Batolemaeus ISK should never be an i-win button, and in all areas of eve it isn't, but for titans it should be? Rrright. I have seen titans being called "I-WIN buttons" for years now and yet i have seen them die regularly and seen a lot of alliances with them fall.
Xaroth Brook Minmatar BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:52:00 - [14] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Aleyra Mel My bs costs 100m but i can hardly kill a 20m ceptor. Why? A BS can easily kills a ceptor, if you cannot you need to check your fittings and drones. I have yet to see the first BS that kills my inty alt .... though I'm also not stupid enough to go solo BS' in an inty... back on topic.. keep in mind that ships have specific roles.. you won't see a logistics ship killing a dread, and you won't see a dread hitting anything that moved faster than a snail... titans are one shot flies.. they fly in, shoot their load and their end of the combat is pretty much done for.. a dread has a pretty constant (yet high) rate of damage. if you turn that into a graph view (yay ascii graphs) you'll end up with this: Titan: __/\____________________ Dread: ------------------------ add enough of those spikes together, and yes, you can pretty much kill anything.. but if the enemy fleet can somehow 'evade' those spikes, those titans will pretty much be done for It was like a baby, it landed on my lap and was helpless and totally defenseless. Then I shot it and bragged about it on a killboard.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2009.01.11 23:58:00 - [15] and how is a fleet of sieged and unable to move dreads supposed to evade those nasty spikes ?
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.12 00:02:00 - [16] Originally by: Amy Wang and how is a fleet of sieged and unable to move dreads supposed to evade those nasty spikes ? How are the now vulnerable titans (13 x 60 bil each = 780 bil + fittings) supposed to avoid the reserve fleet of dreads that lands on top of them after they pop their loads and starts chewing through them one by one.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.12 01:53:00 - [17] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Amy Wang and how is a fleet of sieged and unable to move dreads supposed to evade those nasty spikes ? How are the now vulnerable titans (13 x 60 bil each = 780 bil + fittings) supposed to avoid the reserve fleet of dreads that lands on top of them after they pop their loads and starts chewing through them one by one. How exactly were you planning on keeping those titans in place? Honor tackling?
BiggestT Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:15:00 - [18] My idea of titans was like the revelations 1 trailor (or was it 2?). You see the titan ACTUALLY fitting guns and FIGHTING (the biggest ship in game staying around for a fight? Say it isnt so!). FFS I dont see why ppl dont think Titans are broken, they fit smartbombs instead of cap guns, and simply warp out when they DD. They are by no means "fathers of the fleet" more like "heres some alpha dmg kthxbai". You know a shipclass isnt excactly working as expected when they nano the damn things to warp out faster . Are they isk balnced? Maybe.. Can they be killed? Sure.. But the fact is they have a stupid role now which shld be looked at by CCP. Troll away EVE history t2 precisions
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:39:00 - [19] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Aleyra Mel But 24 titans wont kill a single dread, they will kill the whole dread fleet. 24 titans cost what?, and how many BS or dreads could i have for that money?. Cos i bet if i spent the amount it cost to buy and fit 24 titans on dreads or BS i could wipe out a few fleets with them....... 24 Titans costs less then the value of the high end moons taken and defended with them.
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.12 02:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Aleyra Mel My bs costs 100m but i can hardly kill a 20m ceptor. Why? A BS can easily kills a ceptor, if you cannot you need to check your fittings and drones. I have yet to see the first BS that kills my inty alt .... though I'm also not stupid enough to go solo BS' in an inty... back on topic.. keep in mind that ships have specific roles.. you won't see a logistics ship killing a dread, and you won't see a dread hitting anything that moved faster than a snail... titans are one shot flies.. they fly in, shoot their load and their end of the combat is pretty much done for.. a dread has a pretty constant (yet high) rate of damage. if you turn that into a graph view (yay ascii graphs) you'll end up with this: Titan: __/\____________________ Dread: ------------------------ add enough of those spikes together, and yes, you can pretty much kill anything.. but if the enemy fleet can somehow 'evade' those spikes, those titans will pretty much be done for Please explain, in detail so that CCP can fix the exploit, how a a dread in siege "evades" anything.
Zeveron Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2009.01.12 18:13:00 - [21] Well i would change my dd, for an uber siege (lets say 20x damage and tank) anytime. If i could tank 20 dreads and 1 shot a dread I wouldnt had a problem. I also need faster locking time, to lock bss and 1 shot them with 1 gun :-) ________________________________________________
Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.01.12 18:31:00 - [22] Originally by: BiggestT You see the titan ACTUALLY fitting guns and FIGHTING (the biggest ship in game staying around for a fight? Say it isnt so!). Too right. Apart from it being unfun gameplay wise it's a huge immersion breaker. Imagine the Millennium Falcon nano***ing around some Imperial Cruisers. TIE fighters and the X-Wings buzzing all over. All good. Suddenly a speck in the distance appears, 5 seconds later a Deathstar is blotting out the sun. 15 seconds later a nearby planet has turned to dust and meanwhile the Deathstar has performed most of a snap-180 degree turn. Cut to Obi-wan saying very quickly he's sensed a disturbance in the force, and back just in time to see the Deathstar dissappearing on the horizon. Luke has the plans but he's buggered if he ever got near that trench. _
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.12 18:51:00 - [23] Originally by: Zeveron Well i would change my dd, for an uber siege (lets say 20x damage and tank) anytime. If i could tank 20 dreads and 1 shot a dread I wouldnt had a problem. I also need faster locking time, to lock bss and 1 shot them with 1 gun :-) Really that sounds fair. You want to kill a Titan bring in a support fleet and nuke it's cap. If the other guys have a proper battlegroup defending the thing, well that could be the beginning of a welp moment. Add no longer needing to expend low slots on barrier tanking a DDD blast and that really seems like a fleet fight that would be a lot more fun for all involved.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:07:00 - [24] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Amy Wang and how is a fleet of sieged and unable to move dreads supposed to evade those nasty spikes ? How are the now vulnerable titans (13 x 60 bil each = 780 bil + fittings) supposed to avoid the reserve fleet of dreads that lands on top of them after they pop their loads and starts chewing through them one by one. How exactly were you planning on keeping those titans in place? Honor tackling? I would proly use the tacklers i was smart enough to keep in reserve tbh.
Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:29:00 - [25] Edited by: Aleyra Mel on 12/01/2009 19:31:11 @lebrata: I agree that titans should be useful and should be worth their money, but a ship to be worth its money doesnt mean it has to kill anything. Freighters worth their money and cant kill anything. And if you see my post here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=965230, im not saying DD to be removed just to get fixed and not be so imbalanced especially when we will soon face dozens of titans together on a single system. @Zeveron: You might want your titan to pwn everything and 1 shot a dread but thats not for you decide. If you want solo-pwn-mobile go play WOW, we are discussing here how titans should get fixed. You think removing the dd and giving the titan the ability to 1 shot everything is balanced? Either join the discussion and post something useful or please just leave. And as a guy said above, 60b for an alliance that holds multiple high-end moons and makes 60b and more per month, building a titan is nothing. Making ISK in EVE has become very easy, especially for 0.0 holding alliances. Titan introduced for the sole purpose to lower the blobs, and it failed. Now its time to look at that ship and balance it.
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2009.01.12 19:56:00 - [26] Revamp the DD into a blast that will disable/hamper the enemy fleet for a while, but not destroy it. Disabling or hampering what on the enemy fleet? I leave that to the imagination of the devs.
Xaroth Brook Minmatar BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Jas Dor Originally by: Xaroth Brook Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Aleyra Mel My bs costs 100m but i can hardly kill a 20m ceptor. Why? A BS can easily kills a ceptor, if you cannot you need to check your fittings and drones. I have yet to see the first BS that kills my inty alt .... though I'm also not stupid enough to go solo BS' in an inty... back on topic.. keep in mind that ships have specific roles.. you won't see a logistics ship killing a dread, and you won't see a dread hitting anything that moved faster than a snail... titans are one shot flies.. they fly in, shoot their load and their end of the combat is pretty much done for.. a dread has a pretty constant (yet high) rate of damage. if you turn that into a graph view (yay ascii graphs) you'll end up with this: Titan: __/\____________________ Dread: ------------------------ add enough of those spikes together, and yes, you can pretty much kill anything.. but if the enemy fleet can somehow 'evade' those spikes, those titans will pretty much be done for Please explain, in detail so that CCP can fix the exploit, how a a dread in siege "evades" anything. It's not an exploit, unless you call having brains is exploiting. If you know your opponent has a 20+ sized titan fleet, you sure as hell aren't going to launch in your entire dread fleet if you aren't 100% sure they are too far away to actually get tehre in time. Instead you have some decoys.. be it worth a few bil.. enough to tempt the opponent to launch their titan fleet.... at the same time you have a covops ready for a cyno field... not close to the battle, but close enough to not get ****d and still see the enemy count.. you'll also want some black ops and some cloaked HICs stand by to jump in support stuff and to tackle. The second they shoot their load the covops is to rush in, drop his cyno (and wave goodbye to his ship) so the enemy fleet can jump in.. as the covops warps in, the black ops start doing their thing to lock down the gates (a small inty group and a large bubble will do if they aren't already there.. they are mostly there to make sure nothing goes out or in without the FC knowing. In the meanwhile the HICS all warp in to lock the titans down as much as they can.. remember, at this point you only lost around 10-20b worth of capitals and support... so any titan kill will yield a net profit in 'losses'... by the time they got the titans locked down the dreads will be loading in and able to start locking on the locked titan(s) Now granted the enemy doesn't have a large backup fleet worthy of launching another titan DD run, you pretty much bumhumped an enemy titan. Keep in mind that this is just theorycrafting, and this won't work 80-90% of the time as it's dependant on too much variables.. but the concept is there and with the proper fleet command and a bit of chaos to mess up the enemy's fleet command it'll just work.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.01.12 20:59:00 - [28] The best nerf they can do is to limit stacking of DDD. That way they don't need to nerf titan itself, but nerf a group of titans, which is what most of us want. For example, after 1 DDD goes off in a grid, if another titan tries to DDD in same grid within 15 minutes (not that long) a message would pop up "Cannot activate DDD due to special instability disrupting your Doomsday device"
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:42:00 - [29] Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Dianeces How exactly were you planning on keeping those titans in place? Honor tackling? I would proly use the tacklers i was smart enough to keep in reserve tbh. Ahh, yes. Those tacklers. The tacklers (dictors or HICs), which just happened to be aligned (off grid, of course, because everything on grid would have been nuked), and just happened to have a warpin to the titans, which were probably 200km away from everything warpable, and just happened to arrive on grid (at a point close enough to said titans to tackle them) between the time the last DD went off and the titans, which were probably already aligned, warped out. Those tacklers. Yes, I can see now how that plan is absolutely foolproof and could not go wrong in anyway. Are you a strategic planner for one of the big alliances, by the way, I know some people who could use a mind as well-developed as yours.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.12 22:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: lebrata Originally by: Dianeces How exactly were you planning on keeping those titans in place? Honor tackling? I would proly use the tacklers i was smart enough to keep in reserve tbh. WAAAA TOO HARD NERF NERF. Titans get tackled and killed right now after they have popped their load and wiped out the ships on grid, the tactics used to achieve this are available and can be used after 1 or 10 titans has dropped a DDD.

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