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Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:12:00 - [61] Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates. Completely agreed. There should be 90% fewer pos's in 0.0. It's a bad game mechanic. What CCP should do is 1.) actually enforce the EULA and get rid of macro miners (heh, don't hold my breath amirite?). 2.) lower the fuel requirements on high sec pos's somehow (so that people will still have their copy/invention slots etc)* 3.) increase the ice-products related fuel cost of 0.0 POSs by 10x. This will fix almost all 0.0 "big alliance owns territory that 99% of the time is empty" problems. Mining for ice should be BORING and HORRIBLY TIME CONSUMING, and ice products should be EXPENSIVE BEYOND BELIEF. This will have the bonus side effect of making it expensive to jump capital ships and fire DDD's. Actually, now that I think about it, the cheap availability of Ice products really is at the heart of the downfalls of a LOT of game mechanics. If it cost 150M to fire a DDD, people wouldn't hotdrop 2 titans on gangs of 5 cruisers. If it cost 50M every max-range carrier jump, people would start traveling alot more like they used to. Eve seems so small and close now that everyone has capital ships and jump freighters, there's no sense of living on the edge when it takes 3 carrier jumps and less than 10 minutes to jump from the furthest system to a 0.4. ~X *This is a problem of a different game mechanic problem - the hard cap on the number of copy/build/invention slots in static stations, combined with the inability of people to put up a high sec pos and offer the slots for open usage of other people, combined with the increasing number of people in eve, is creating lots of hassle for newbies who want to get into manufacturing, and we shouldn't discourage people from doing that. It shouldn't be a case of "You must make 100M/month profit or not have a pos". There should either be more slots in stations or high sec pos's should be cheaper, or people should be able to sell their manufacturing services. What can I say? You're indisputably correct.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:53:00 - [62] A max-skilled Mack with shield buffer rigs (assuming that's used to make them a little more suicide-resistant) has something like 7300 EHP. A suicide 'geddon with 8 YF-12a smartbombs (Therm damage is the Mack's lowest overall EHP resist, 7000 effective) you'd need to get off 3 volleys of all 8 smarties before you pop them. With a max-skilled cycle timer of 7.5 seconds, there'd be 15 seconds from first to third blast. Now I don't know how fast concord responds, but I bet it'd be before you get that third shot off.
IVeige	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:06:00 - [63] hi i would like to play bowling hulk, any ship i can use to bump effectivelay ?
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:37:00 - [64] Originally by: Malcanis What can I say? You're indisputably correct. ORLY? I think that's the first time someone on the EVE forums has ever said those words to me. tear ~X
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:14:00 - [65] Edited by: Darkeen on 16/01/2009 00:17:43 Originally by: Dirk Magnum I hate to say it but IMO the bigger jackass in the PvP transaction that is suicide anti-macro PvP is the legitimate player. Killing macro miners does nothing. At all. They have a bottomless pool of ISK to replace their ships, they don't lose more than a few minutes of their time because all they have to do is grab another ship and reactivate the macro, there are hundreds of them at work across various systems protected by buffed CONCORD and NPC corp mechanics, the RL companies they work for probably have a plethora of idle accounts skilled up for mining to replace accounts that get successfully petitioned. To kill one just to say you did it is one thing, but smartbombing a gang of them and their pods is just silly (unless you're just trying to run down your sec status.) Actuallu killing them all is a GOOD ideas. As by definition, the are MACRO'ing, not AFK mining... So there is no-one at the PC, just a Macro running commands all the time. So the person/s are away somewhere else (or at worst playing with other screen on an alt/main) and they get ganked... The macro cant run and either shuts down (stopping their ice producing activities) or the player has to re-write the macro to include getting into new mackinaws... and has to buy a whole heap of makinaws... The smart player would set up a POS, build Mackinaws, then go ganking these Makinaws som the macro'ers are forced to buy his WAY overpriced Mak's! Reduces thier isk, increases his, stops them from mining ice whilst the macro is down (or the macro is busy buying and getting into a new ship) and he gets a few Lulz fomr the gankings... I dont see a problem....
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.17 06:43:00 - [66] The cost of killing them is disproportionate. It costs a crew a lot of isk + security status to suicide them. You will spend 3x more isk and time killing them then they spend re-equipping. isk farmers have the upper hand in this game. They basically run it. It will get a LOT worse in the coming months.
Auldslapper	Posted - 2009.01.17 10:31:00 - [67] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? They've been operating in that system and surrounding systems for well over a year and have been petitioned numerous times and not one has been banned from game :s
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.01.17 10:39:00 - [68] there are actually people out there who create loads of accounts and do this. I havn't seen anything that would distinguish what you've seen as a macro'er not one of these crazy multitasking ice miners.
Exuscon Amarr Frontier Explorations Inc. CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.17 10:53:00 - [69] Sounds like EVE is turning into SWG, I wonder how long before CCP sells to SOE?
Auldslapper	Posted - 2009.01.17 11:46:00 - [70] Originally by: Typhado3 there are actually people out there who create loads of accounts and do this. I havn't seen anything that would distinguish what you've seen as a macro'er not one of these crazy multitasking ice miners. most of these aren't totally macro's, they usually have several barges and a hauler, the person behind the keyboard then fly's each barge out to a BM within the ice belt and starts the macro running then just fly's the hauler to collect the ore

Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.17 11:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Grimpak think it's time for me to dust out the mastodoon.... MASTODONNN!!!!! that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans?
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Irida Mershkov that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans? Of course.
Jack Rowanburn PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:13:00 - [73] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates. Completely agreed. There should be 90% fewer pos's in 0.0. It's a bad game mechanic. What CCP should do is 1.) actually enforce the EULA and get rid of macro miners (heh, don't hold my breath amirite?). 2.) lower the fuel requirements on high sec pos's somehow (so that people will still have their copy/invention slots etc)* 3.) increase the ice-products related fuel cost of 0.0 POSs by 10x. This will fix almost all 0.0 "big alliance owns territory that 99% of the time is empty" problems. Mining for ice should be BORING and HORRIBLY TIME CONSUMING, and ice products should be EXPENSIVE BEYOND BELIEF. This will have the bonus side effect of making it expensive to jump capital ships and fire DDD's. Actually, now that I think about it, the cheap availability of Ice products really is at the heart of the downfalls of a LOT of game mechanics. If it cost 150M to fire a DDD, people wouldn't hotdrop 2 titans on gangs of 5 cruisers. If it cost 50M every max-range carrier jump, people would start traveling alot more like they used to. Eve seems so small and close now that everyone has capital ships and jump freighters, there's no sense of living on the edge when it takes 3 carrier jumps and less than 10 minutes to jump from the furthest system to a 0.4. ~X This is a problem of a different game mechanic problem - the hard cap on the number of copy/build/invention slots in static stations, combined with the inability of people to put up a high sec pos and offer the slots for open usage of other people, combined with the increasing number of people in eve, is creating lots of hassle for newbies who want to get into manufacturing, and we shouldn't discourage people from doing that. It shouldn't be a case of "You must make 100M/month profit or not have a pos". There should either be more slots in stations or high sec pos's should be cheaper, or people should be able to sell their manufacturing services. What can I say? You're indisputably correct. Unfortunately not. I can't say anything about points 2 or 3 for lack of experience but point 1: CCP Do ban macro miners. They do so as well as they are able because they have to be very VERY careful. If they banned just one legitimate player on the say so of one persons petition that renders the whole system useless. Even if they have 30 petitions and it turns out the person was a legitimate player that would be a bad day - CCP would have set the precedent that enough petitions and you can get anyone banned, and not necessarily just for macroing after that. Not to mention from a customer service point of view if you * of one person you likely lose more than one customer or potential customer ------------- Originally by:** CCP Wrangler These players, now all they'll do is post and post about the extension to the extended downtime. Geez, it's not the end of the world after all...
ZenSun Total Mayhem. Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:18:00 - [74] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? And people wonder why the market is totally fecked? woops
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Irida Mershkov that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans? Of course. Maybe that should be changed to giving you an aggression timer against the miner who uses the can. So instead you can pop macro-miners cans to stop them selling the ISK.
Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 13:10:00 - [76] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: Grimpak that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans? Better still, just ninja flip their cans with a couple of Cranes and a Orca in a safe to keep unloading at.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.17 13:54:00 - [77] Originally by: Rethie Better still, just ninja flip their cans with a couple of Cranes and a Orca in a safe to keep unloading at. We're talking about Giant Secure Cans here — you can't quite flip those… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:35:00 - [78] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rethie Better still, just ninja flip their cans with a couple of Cranes and a Orca in a safe to keep unloading at. We're talking about Giant Secure Cans here ù you can't quite flip thoseà GSC are only lockable if they are anchored (maybe I am wrong?) and you can't anchor if you are in NPC , so they are in private corp if they are anchored, which means an easy wardec gives you reds, empire or not.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:42:00 - [79] Originally by: Rethie GSC are only lockable if they are anchored (maybe I am wrong?) and you can't anchor if you are in NPC No. Being in an NPC corp doesn't keep you from anchoring your cans.
Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:52:00 - [80] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rethie GSC are only lockable if they are anchored (maybe I am wrong?) and you can't anchor if you are in NPC No. Being in an NPC corp doesn't keep you from anchoring your cans. Brain fart, sorry, early morning blues, sec region status stops anchoring, duhh!!

Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.17 23:22:00 - [81] Edited by: Irish Blend on 17/01/2009 23:27:10 Originally by: Roderak Pleem I was doing some roaming a month or so ago.. checking out some systems in minmatar space I hadn't been to. Hit a high sec dead end system, 40-50 names in local, most, but not all were gibberish names. The number of ppl in local was unusual for the systems I had just been through (between 0 and 10 ppl) Then I noticed there was an ice belt in the system, so I fly over to check it out. I see three groups of ships. Each group was 1 orca, 8 mackinaws, and 1 itty V flying back and forth to a local station. (there could have been two itty V's per group, one in transit) There was about 80km between the groups, so they didnt step on each others toes..I didnt see any GSC's in this op. You could definitely 'bowl' with these groups of ships.. the orca literally surrounded my 8 mackinaws. Each mackinaw hitting a different piece of ice. I didnt do the math.. but the amount of ice they were mining must have been staggering. I am in a system right now with 74 people in local, I should check out that ice belt...hmm there is no belts in this system at all. They must be macro mission runners Gibberish names? You mena like xx in front or back or both? or l or 1 or 3 or leet or l337 speak? Yep - get rid of all those kinds of peopkle I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce http://www.skamarakas.com/jim Got a question about EVE Online, ask. If I know the answer, I will tell
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 18:35:00 - [82] There are a lot of clowns that do the name thing. There is one thing they can do to weed regular players from farmers easily.. The farmers' weakness is their account sharing. A toon is logged in for a 23 hour period.. every day I have written down a farmers name and gone to bed.. Got up the next morning - still there Went to work and came home - still there. Wash, rinse, repeat. Compile a list, watch them and ban them. One (1) person could make a difference in the farmer population. If one person took that on the farmer population would plummet.. BUT! CCP would lose probably 1/3 of their playerbase. That is 1/3 of their income. Farmers are basically paying CCP off.
ToTheCore Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 22:25:00 - [83] Originally by: Irish Blend Gibberish names? You mena like xx in front or back or both? or l or 1 or 3 or leet or l337 speak? Yep - get rid of all those kinds of peopkle Take a look at the signature of the poster below you. That is what is meant by gibberish names. Names like 'xxl33tm4cr0xx' tend to be stupid and unreadable at best, but it usually seems fairly obvious that someone created a character named that on purpose.
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.18 22:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Loyal Servant There are a lot of clowns that do the name thing. There is one thing they can do to weed regular players from farmers easily.. The farmers' weakness is their account sharing. A toon is logged in for a 23 hour period.. every day And what will you get a farmer banned for? Playing more then you?
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.18 22:49:00 - [85] You want macros gone from highsec? Get on board with the "1 billion ISK PLEX" initiative. Spammed ISK goes for 2x secure system ISK. When PLEXes hit 1B it will no longer be profitable to ice mine at current ice prices. Not even 23x7. If you are selling GTCs think about holding off a month or two. If you're not a GTC seller consider investing in one or more for the good of Eve (and my wallet). If you are a Jita trader consider daytrading them with the aim of pushing up buy order prices.
Roderak Pleem Minmatar Abandoned Land	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:05:00 - [86] Originally by: Irish Blend Edited by: Irish Blend on 17/01/2009 23:27:10 Originally by: Roderak Pleem I was doing some roaming a month or so ago.. checking out some systems in minmatar space I hadn't been to. Hit a high sec dead end system, 40-50 names in local, most, but not all were gibberish names. The number of ppl in local was unusual for the systems I had just been through (between 0 and 10 ppl) Then I noticed there was an ice belt in the system, so I fly over to check it out. I see three groups of ships. Each group was 1 orca, 8 mackinaws, and 1 itty V flying back and forth to a local station. (there could have been two itty V's per group, one in transit) There was about 80km between the groups, so they didnt step on each others toes..I didnt see any GSC's in this op. You could definitely 'bowl' with these groups of ships.. the orca literally surrounded my 8 mackinaws. Each mackinaw hitting a different piece of ice. I didnt do the math.. but the amount of ice they were mining must have been staggering. I am in a system right now with 74 people in local, I should check out that ice belt...hmm there is no belts in this system at all. They must be macro mission runners Gibberish names? You mena like xx in front or back or both? or l or 1 or 3 or leet or l337 speak? Yep - get rid of all those kinds of peopkle Just for the hell of it, I went back to a system next door to where I saw these ice miners with gibberish, yes gibberish names, and took the following screenshot of one of the groups of ships in the ice field: Gedugaud Ice Miners 1900x1100 Here we see FPOP, currently in wcro5 corp, previously of wcro2 corp, previously of wcro1 corp. Most people would call this orca pilot a corp jumper. Jumping corp when a war dec happens. Or, maybe the guy didn't like wcro1 corp and left and went to wcro2 corp because it was twice as good as wcro1.. etc.. we can certainly guess whatever we want.. right? Perhaps this is a valid player with a bunch of valid alts surrounding him paying for some other valid eve accounts like yours.. who knows.. looks lame to me.
State Security Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:32:00 - [87] Originally by: Loyal Servant yada yada yada... CCP would lose probably 1/3 of their playerbase. That is 1/3 of their income. Farmers are basically paying CCP off. ahem ISK Farmers, what can you buy with ISK? GTC's ISK Farmers play for free my friend. CCP is getting jack-all for them being there besides being boned right in the duty hole. We the player base get holed too because we have to deal with the spam and the players who buy billions of ISK to gain advantage over those of us who don't.
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:07:00 - [88] Every MMO has whiners who complain about macros but dont do anything about it If they bother you do what we did years ago - get in a gang of kestrels and go kill them over and over and over till your forehead is bloody and you give up. Then leave them alone and dont buy from them If no one buy sfrom them there is no market for them and they go away. A farmer who sells their ISK fr a GTC to play for free still gets hard cash in CCP's hands via the GTC purchaser - your not doing the math if you think people playing on GTC's dont buy money in CCPs pockets I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce http://www.skamarakas.com/jim Got a question about EVE Online, ask. If I know the answer, I will tell
Auldslapper	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:13:00 - [89] Originally by: State Security ahem ISK Farmers, what can you buy with ISK? GTC's ISK Farmers play for free my friend. The slight problem with that is that someone has to buy the gtc in the first place to feed the farmers requirements, CCP still get the extra $$ from all these gtc's that the farmers are using it's just that it doesn't come directly from the farmers
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:52:00 - [90] Edited by: Companion Qube on 19/01/2009 10:52:08 Use groups of gankfit destroyers and spike them one by one, the mackinaws will be dealt with. Gank destroyers are cheeeeeeeeeap



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