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RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:02:00 - [1] Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec?
Trogglodite	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:08:00 - [2] No. Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. Don't like it? Get in there, smart bomb them, play bowling, whatever - but don't suggest that everyone mining ice is a macro'er and throw them all to the pirates to please yourself.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:12:00 - [3] Amazing description of the way any normal player group in eve would organize and run an ice mining op in one of the last places in high sec to gather pos fuel materials.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:12:00 - [4] Interesting, I'm going to send an alt there tonight to get some of that free ice. Where's the issue?
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:14:00 - [5] get free ice harass them for a few hours petition them once a day etc ccp should make all npc corp members over 3 months old sign up automatically for factional warfare. Make em killable at least
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Trogglodite No. Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. Don't like it? Get in there, smart bomb them, play bowling, whatever - but don't suggest that everyone mining ice is a macro'er and throw them all to the pirates to please yourself. Smartbombing won;t kill a mackinaw in a 0.7 system after the CONCORD buffs. Suicide ganking singularly probably wouldn;t be effective without loads of pilots either, and the constant ratting to keep sec status up (again, since the chnages) ruins the whole diea of cleaning up macro'ers yourself. So, what now? =s
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Trogglodite Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. because others are abusing macro's.
Captain Pompous	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:32:00 - [8] Originally by: RedSplat with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) I'm going to say it: maybe they just dont want to talk to some RANDOM unknown person who convos them from local out of the blue. And why should they, frankly, given the level of sanity and decorum the EVE playerbase generally possesses. Also, you're straying too far from your remit. I'd suggest in future that you stick to your Dodixie-Aunia-Auvergne Bermuda Triangle
Raneru Euphoria Released	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Smartbombing won;t kill a mackinaw in a 0.7 system after the CONCORD buffs. Suicide ganking singularly probably wouldn;t be effective without loads of pilots either, and the constant ratting to keep sec status up (again, since the chnages) ruins the whole diea of cleaning up macro'ers yourself. So, what now? =s Don't buy isk?
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:50:00 - [10] You know what's interesting here is the fact that this entire discussion is based off of double standards. CONCORD was buffed because players were suicide ganking players all the time, thereby penalizing suicide gankers. Now ice will not be moved to lowsec, which would penalize ice miners because players are exploiting macros. Hmm.. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com

Roderak Pleem Minmatar Abandoned Land	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:54:00 - [11] I was doing some roaming a month or so ago.. checking out some systems in minmatar space I hadn't been to. Hit a high sec dead end system, 40-50 names in local, most, but not all were gibberish names. The number of ppl in local was unusual for the systems I had just been through (between 0 and 10 ppl) Then I noticed there was an ice belt in the system, so I fly over to check it out. I see three groups of ships. Each group was 1 orca, 8 mackinaws, and 1 itty V flying back and forth to a local station. (there could have been two itty V's per group, one in transit) There was about 80km between the groups, so they didnt step on each others toes..I didnt see any GSC's in this op. You could definitely 'bowl' with these groups of ships.. the orca literally surrounded my 8 mackinaws. Each mackinaw hitting a different piece of ice. I didnt do the math.. but the amount of ice they were mining must have been staggering. Quite an operation. That seems where mining is going.. Do you think we have some stripped belts now? we haven't seen anything yet. lol. Regards, Rod
ToTheCore Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.14 22:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Captain Pompous I'm going to say it: maybe they just dont want to talk to some RANDOM unknown person who convos them from local out of the blue. I can understand where you're coming from with this, but that would make more sense with regards to players with names that don't look like someone had a seizure on the keyboard. I don't think most players in EVE like having characters named pnoxjqz.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:09:00 - [13] Edited by: Zeba on 14/01/2009 23:10:12 Originally by: ToTheCore Originally by: Captain Pompous I'm going to say it: maybe they just dont want to talk to some RANDOM unknown person who convos them from local out of the blue. I can understand where you're coming from with this, but that would make more sense with regards to players with names that don't look like someone had a seizure on the keyboard. I don't think most players in EVE like having characters named pnoxjqz. Ok look at it from this point of view. Lots of people in high sec need pos fuel. Lots of people in eve like to greif miners. Miners get all concentrated into a single belt in a single system due to the high sec ice field nerf so you can easily have 80+ people there. Certain miners being alts of pvp/manufactoring corps who need pos fuel get the lulz idea of naming all thier new ice miner alts lkasjhdfs and such just to be annoying because they know it is annoying. They then log onto the forum GD where much lulz ensued. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
No Class	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:14:00 - [14] Can a low skilled pilot in a frigate or cheap cruiser take down a Mackinaw? How many Mackinaws can you destroy before your not alowed in the system?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:16:00 - [15] Originally by: No Class Can a low skilled pilot in a frigate or cheap cruiser take down a Mackinaw? How many Mackinaws can you destroy before your not alowed in the system? Actually not too many as a mackinaw fitted to mine ice has no grid or cpu left for any type of tank. Been a standing complaint for ages. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Molly Mayhem Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:18:00 - [16] Edited by: Molly Mayhem on 14/01/2009 23:18:16 Originally by: No Class Can a low skilled pilot in a frigate or cheap cruiser take down a Mackinaw? How many Mackinaws can you destroy before your not alowed in the system? Military analysts are calling this a CONCORDOKKEN.
No Class	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:23:00 - [17] Concordokken..................Do you get to destroy your target before you are concordokkened?
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:24:00 - [18] Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 14/01/2009 23:24:34 Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo and reside exclusively in NPC corps. So because 99% of the chat's I've recieved from randoms have been exclusively "Help me in my mission please" scams, begging, other spam, or all of the above, I'm labelled a macro for ignoring the unwashed? And further heightened by my presence in an NPC corp obviously not being because I've had an utter bar of being told what to do by player-run corps and alliances who think they have some right to "expect" me to do what they say despite my RL commitment issues? oh, and Quote: (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) just shows that you're ignorant of the facts that discredit what you say. Quote: They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. When I fly to a belt in my mack, it's hard not to be within 1k of another player since we all warp in to the same spot at 0. And what's wrong with me using a secure can? Quote: Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Obviously a macro in use there, because real players aren't capable of coordinating bookmarks labelled 'can 1','can 2' and 'can 3' Quote: Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? Because Hi sec POS shouldn't exist right? If you feel the miners are a problem, go pop them, you've got the tools at your disposal.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.14 23:25:00 - [19] I hate to say it but IMO the bigger jackass in the PvP transaction that is suicide anti-macro PvP is the legitimate player. Killing macro miners does nothing. At all. They have a bottomless pool of ISK to replace their ships, they don't lose more than a few minutes of their time because all they have to do is grab another ship and reactivate the macro, there are hundreds of them at work across various systems protected by buffed CONCORD and NPC corp mechanics, the RL companies they work for probably have a plethora of idle accounts skilled up for mining to replace accounts that get successfully petitioned. To kill one just to say you did it is one thing, but smartbombing a gang of them and their pods is just silly (unless you're just trying to run down your sec status.)
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:30:00 - [20] Fair Game is easily one of the dumbest movies I ever saw.

Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:43:00 - [21] I've tried to splork mackinaws in .7 post concord buff in a gank fit thorax and failed miserably. Now granted, I don't have gallente cruiser V. But I do have appropriate blaster spec, drone interfacing V, blah blah blah. Even a typically fit mack is going to weigh in at about 4000-5000 EHP. Which means an "all Vs" guy may kill it in the 10 seconds you get in .5. In .7, forget it. IMO you'll need at least two cruisers to have a shot at it. Which means that much more organization and grinding to get your sec rating back. Not a problem for people with good 0.0 access, but a major stumbling block for the rest of us. Forget it. Let them mine their little automated butts off. Increased productivity just means lower prices on empire ice. Alternatively shoot me a note, I may be bored and in the area. A blastheron may be crap -- but it can still gank mackinaws.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:57:00 - [22] Quote: IMO you'll need at least two cruisers to have a shot at it. Which means that much more organization and grinding to get your sec rating back. Not a problem for people with good 0.0 access, but a major stumbling block for the rest of us. ORCA-bombers have shown that Sec status is not an issue. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Trogglodite No. Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. Don't like it? Get in there, smart bomb them, play bowling, whatever - but don't suggest that everyone mining ice is a macro'er and throw them all to the pirates to please yourself. i lol'ed Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Horsemen of Apocalypse	Posted - 2009.01.15 00:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Gunnanmon Interesting, I'm going to send an alt there tonight to get some of that free ice. Where's the issue? i agree, if its not to far out of my way, i might head down there Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:06:00 - [25] I think all mining should be macroized... it's ****ing boring
Hacra Minmatar Malicious Intentions The Church.	Posted - 2009.01.15 01:11:00 - [26] A) Free ice, go get it B) Suicide gank 'em
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.15 02:35:00 - [27] Oh FFS nerf it all ready. We have enough propaganda threads hating on Ice Macro miners. Reality? Who the hell cares? If you want to make ISK, mine for trit. Remove all the Ice miners running on a macro it will still make you more ISK than Ice. All these double duck dogge BS threads mean nothing. I mined 800 Ice in 3 days without a macro a month ago. I still made my fuel requirements and 100 mill ISK. Why did I stop? It was **IN BORING!! Let them macro the **.
Josh Causto Gallente Fatalix Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:07:00 - [28] Hey lets see, I sure do love low ice prices, and I'm sure CCP love those subscriptions they get from macroers. Nope I don't think CCP will do anything soon.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:38:00 - [29] lol I've started stealing from these guys in Tolle I just grabbed a load of ice in my Prowler but it seems that blue ice sells for **** so I gotta go grab a Mammoth. Do these macroers ever fight back or are they all just afk all the time?
NSSQUAD	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:39:00 - [30] yeah for real F!@K all you macro miners i hate you with a passion. your KOS to me so plz move to low sec

Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Dirk Magnum lol I've started stealing from these guys in Tolle I just grabbed a load of ice in my Prowler but it seems that blue ice sells for **** so I gotta go grab a Mammoth. Do these macroers ever fight back or are they all just afk all the time? When I made one of my combat alts I used him to nick ore and ice in minnie space as something to do to keep occupied as I flipped skills. All the ice miners I nabbed ice who did talk couldn't care less about a load or two gone missing as they have to mine for days to get the quota for pos fuel and figured out to acknowledge the thieves presence usually spurred them on to keep stealing just for the attention as stealing ice is [i]really[i] low profit. So yeah you can steal all day long but its like one of the least profitable things to do in eve past afk mining a veld roid in an indy.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Dirk Magnum I hate to say it but IMO the bigger jackass in the PvP transaction that is suicide anti-macro PvP is the legitimate player. Killing macro miners does nothing. At all. They have a bottomless pool of ISK to replace their ships, they don't lose more than a few minutes of their time because all they have to do is grab another ship and reactivate the macro, there are hundreds of them at work across various systems protected by buffed CONCORD and NPC corp mechanics, the RL companies they work for probably have a plethora of idle accounts skilled up for mining to replace accounts that get successfully petitioned. To kill one just to say you did it is one thing, but smartbombing a gang of them and their pods is just silly (unless you're just trying to run down your sec status.) THIS. Far better to just steal from their cans. (assuming jetcans or unanchored secure cans) Why not make a profit off of them? Now, if they are using Anchored secure cans then you are out of luck on that front. not much you can do then but be somewhat annoying.
NSSQUAD	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:53:00 - [33] Edited by: NSSQUAD on 15/01/2009 03:54:39 ok now all you guys who are defending them you make good points but your still ***** footing around the bush. there is no saying no it doesn't happen for this no matter what you guys bring to the table. because it really is happening and when you do come across a blob of people with "fghsgfhgfhsdfyhsty" as there name yes there is a problem=this needs to be handled with a swift boot the the macro miners. how can it be so hard to just make a program that scans eve for outside programs influencing the game. crist back in 2000 that was an possibility. p.s. dont you love to just get your hauler and keep stealing there ore? i find most of the time they ship is there but no one at the helm. so feel free to steal to your hearts ditsier.
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.15 05:40:00 - [34] Edited by: Zex Maxwell on 15/01/2009 05:41:01 Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? Technically, All empire ice belts have been removed. or what was said by CCP, that they removed the respawn of all ice belts in empire. The reason why they are still there is because of the Large amounts of units that are in each ice roid. Take a scanner in with you and you will see what I am talking about. Since the ice mining is not doing so well with the market, hardly anyone mines them other then stupid lazies and macro miners. so those belts will be there for a long time. i will give them another year before they are totally gone.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.01.15 06:45:00 - [35] So much hate for play'a. You have any idea how hard it is to code your own macro programs to EVE? You should get respect from that! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2009.01.15 08:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Zex Maxwell Technically, All empire ice belts have been removed. Originally by: Patch Notes Misc: Ice belts have been removed from all systems with 0.8+ security standing Empire != 0.8+ security standing. Ice belts still exist in empire. As do macro/farmers. And now, as mentioned above, they use Orcas. Of course, to get the benefit of the Orca they have to form a corp (for the Orca and hauler pilot). Can we war dec them? No, because they close the corp when the war dec arrives and open a new one. Ad infinitum. And there's nothing you can do to stop that, because apparently it's not an exploit of the war dec system.
Futuristic Eagle League of Gentlemen Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.15 10:33:00 - [37] Heh, I saw one of these little clusters yesterday. Me and a corpmate tried to bait them with cans full of ice named the same as theirs, it didnt work sadly. Pity, I wanted an easy orca kill =(. Screeny. Umm... yeah... Isk farmers?
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:33:00 - [38] think it's time for me to dust out the mastodoon.... --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Lithyia Theia	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:47:00 - [39] 2 years ago no one did ever defend macro miners on the forum, what has changed? I think you who are defending them now must be WOW players.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Gunnanmon Interesting, I'm going to send an alt there tonight to get some of that free ice. Where's the issue? he just said they use GSC's... Also, the ice isn't worth much due to farmers. Originally by: Zeba Amazing description of the way any normal player group in eve would organize and run an ice mining op in one of the last places in high sec to gather pos fuel materials. Organized player groups tend to use player corps. Originally by: Trogglodite No. Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. You don't have to personally mine the ice used to fuel your POS. Non-solo players can mine plenty of ice in low sec and 0.0 and then use jump freighters or whatever to move it somewhere safe for your to buy.

Silent Killa Xeno Tech Corp MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:09:00 - [41] Farmers yummmmmmmmmm http://macrointel.eve-kb.org/
PinkMonkey Dragon	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:35:00 - [42] back when i cared more, i would troll the ice macros.. mostly i would just steal MASSIVE amounts of ice from them.. they mined faster than a 35km3 occator could haul it.. made hundreds of millions.. BUT, i also petitioned them. one day, they would just diapear. i stole so much ice from one macro that he actually started trying to talk to me (it made NO sense at all. NONE. random words from a babel fish, imho)... and oddly, he didnt stop me. i dont know if the ice miners were on another comp out of his control or what, but either he didnt, or wouldnt, or couldnt stop me... i ended up with 1200 ice. 3 days later, petition kicked in.. never saw them again. by my estimation, i have got 50+ macros banned in ice belts.. and i stoped trying 1.5-2 years ago. SO, petition with EVERY bit of evidence you can find to prove they're a macro.. and, then, start stealing from them if ya can. imho, half the haulers in those ops arnt macroing, they are THE one real person--leave them off the macro petition, because if the GM's get even ONE of them to talk durring an op, they wont ban them (because onyl unattended macros are against the rules)
Squably Minmatar Invenio Inceptum	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:56:00 - [43] I love those idiotic macro gangs, they jettison into cans, get a gang of some cruisers n steal the ice from the cans before the itty gets there.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:26:00 - [44] Lets just try this idea... they don't speak your language. There are hundreds of reasons why a person would not reply to you when you are bugging them in local or even directly using a convo If they are really macro's bump them... push them out of the belt ans see what happens. If you al of a sudden get screamed at in a language you do not understand then things are quite clear. If this is indeed a macro, good for the owner, send in a petition and get on with life. Macro's are stupid, but people who sit in a belt for hours on end trying to figure out if they are inteligent beings or trying to communicate with them are...
David Grogan Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:27:00 - [45] can u jam macro miners so they cannot lock roids or ice without concord popping your ass? it would be great if u could cos we could create macro jammers to find and jam macro miners lol
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Josh Causto Hey lets see, I sure do love low ice prices, and I'm sure CCP love those subscriptions they get from macroers. Nope I don't think CCP will do anything soon. Soon? Ever.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:32:00 - [47] So they are macromining ICE, whoopeedo... Ice mining is even more boring than regular mining and should be abolished from the game or should indeed be a completely automated process imo. In fact I find the farmers (macro or not) quite fitting for their role. They actually mine ice as work which is more or less the only reason why somebody would do it, certainly not for fun. And I simply do not see it as a very profitable occupation. The ice it self does not generate isk out of thin air, while missions do. And it will not take me many missions before I can buy ice isotopes to fuel my POS for weeks. And for mining, you would make more isk/hour by mining Veldspar at some mission site than ice. I can only guess there is a ice farming industry going on as it is so incredible simple to do, and by that notion very boring too. I guess there must be some kind of demand for the isotopes, but it does not seem so bad as the prices are low. So while farmers might be an eyesore to some I do not really care about them as long as they stick to low level income procedures. Again, the ice in it self is not an isk faucet and ice mining is not an interesting occupation at all. I would like to see ice mining disappear completely when we see some POS reforms later on.
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:47:00 - [48] If a real legit player(s) is using 5 mackinaws, all npc corp, all random names, mining ice 23/7, never talks, they deserve to be ganked. WE ARE AT WAR WITH MACROS. If you act like one, you will be shot.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:26:00 - [49] Out of interest, does anyone know of a chat channel what relays information about "dubious" mining operations? I'm bored with missions, and might wanna sacrifice a few Ravens for something to do. The Ghost-training vote thread
Komen Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:28:00 - [50] Speaking as a former miner, the only part about 30 people with a hauler making regular trips to empty cans into the station that suggests macros, is the gobbledy**** names of the characters in question. And these might not be macros, but alts of a corp which is 0.0 based and mines ice itself to fuel POS's. On the other hand, they very well might be macros. Who can tell? Well, the devs could, I'm betting, by tracing the easiest trail of all - where do the ice/refined products go? It's all logged in the database. Hell, you know what? Here's a simple tool - look for ice being mined over periods of...let's say longer than 10 hours, by the same character. If you see a character mining 23/7, then you've either got someone who doesn't sleep playing your game, or else you've got an EULA violation - account sharing, macro, whatever. So here, CCP, is your flowchart: Search for mining activity. Say a random sample of 1000 characters every day. Did they mine? No? Move on. Yes? Okay, how many mining cycles? Under 10 hours per day - let 'em go. Over 10? Now how many days in a row have they mined. Etc. Honestly, I feel very strongly about this. Either take an active role in enforcing your EULA, or else don't be surprised that no-one takes it seriously. Depending on players to report these violations is WEAK SAUCE. There's a quote I remember imperfectly - an unenforced law weakens all other laws, or something to that effect. Being that the EULA is a form of 'law' for conduct in game, the quote applies.

Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:33:00 - [51] They need to make one huge blob of 50+ mackinaw around a single can. More Profitable. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Futuristic Eagle Heh, I saw one of these little clusters yesterday. Me and a corpmate tried to bait them with cans full of ice named the same as theirs, it didnt work sadly. Pity, I wanted an easy orca kill =(. Screeny. Umm... yeah... Isk farmers? Omg, that is just absurd, look at all the ships! I wish I had a few suicide bombers there :P The thing is, that normal miners must feel stupid and waisting their time (cus of low prices for ore) when things like this happen. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Salliene Gallente Trinity Acquisitions	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:27:00 - [53] 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:42:00 - [54] Oh in case anyone was wondering as soon as you park a hauler next to one of their jet cans they warp in an Itty 5 and switch the jet can with LSC's. Someone over at the macro warehouse is watching what's going on at least
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates.
Kazang Gallente Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I think all mining should be macroized... it's ****ing boring Quoted for great truth!
Haclya Caldari The Red Ring	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Huberek Morchu If a real legit player(s) is using 5 mackinaws, all npc corp, all random names, mining ice 23/7, never talks, they deserve to be ganked. WE ARE AT WAR WITH MACROS. If you act like one, you will be shot. some times legit player who don't talk have the main char linked in bio if want to talk is smart to chek the bio to I hate marcos to but I always chek the bio just in case ,if like to gank just gank all then
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.15 17:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates. Completely agreed. There should be 90% fewer pos's in 0.0. It's a bad game mechanic. What CCP should do is 1.) actually enforce the EULA and get rid of macro miners (heh, don't hold my breath amirite?). 2.) lower the fuel requirements on high sec pos's somehow (so that people will still have their copy/invention slots etc)* 3.) increase the ice-products related fuel cost of 0.0 POSs by 10x. This will fix almost all 0.0 "big alliance owns territory that 99% of the time is empty" problems. Mining for ice should be BORING and HORRIBLY TIME CONSUMING, and ice products should be EXPENSIVE BEYOND BELIEF. This will have the bonus side effect of making it expensive to jump capital ships and fire DDD's. Actually, now that I think about it, the cheap availability of Ice products really is at the heart of the downfalls of a LOT of game mechanics. If it cost 150M to fire a DDD, people wouldn't hotdrop 2 titans on gangs of 5 cruisers. If it cost 50M every max-range carrier jump, people would start traveling alot more like they used to. Eve seems so small and close now that everyone has capital ships and jump freighters, there's no sense of living on the edge when it takes 3 carrier jumps and less than 10 minutes to jump from the furthest system to a 0.4. ~X *This is a problem of a different game mechanic problem - the hard cap on the number of copy/build/invention slots in static stations, combined with the inability of people to put up a high sec pos and offer the slots for open usage of other people, combined with the increasing number of people in eve, is creating lots of hassle for newbies who want to get into manufacturing, and we shouldn't discourage people from doing that. It shouldn't be a case of "You must make 100M/month profit or not have a pos". There should either be more slots in stations or high sec pos's should be cheaper, or people should be able to sell their manufacturing services. -- Sig under construction.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:44:00 - [59] Sorry i haven't elaborated more on the OP post, i was busy defending Macro usage and downplaying its role in the selling of isk elsewhere.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:58:00 - [60] Originally by: RedSplat Sorry i haven't elaborated more on the OP post, i was busy defending Macro usage and downplaying its role in the selling of isk elsewhere. Sorry i haven't trolled your thread, i was too busy feasting on your delicious non-macro tears

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.15 19:12:00 - [61] Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates. Completely agreed. There should be 90% fewer pos's in 0.0. It's a bad game mechanic. What CCP should do is 1.) actually enforce the EULA and get rid of macro miners (heh, don't hold my breath amirite?). 2.) lower the fuel requirements on high sec pos's somehow (so that people will still have their copy/invention slots etc)* 3.) increase the ice-products related fuel cost of 0.0 POSs by 10x. This will fix almost all 0.0 "big alliance owns territory that 99% of the time is empty" problems. Mining for ice should be BORING and HORRIBLY TIME CONSUMING, and ice products should be EXPENSIVE BEYOND BELIEF. This will have the bonus side effect of making it expensive to jump capital ships and fire DDD's. Actually, now that I think about it, the cheap availability of Ice products really is at the heart of the downfalls of a LOT of game mechanics. If it cost 150M to fire a DDD, people wouldn't hotdrop 2 titans on gangs of 5 cruisers. If it cost 50M every max-range carrier jump, people would start traveling alot more like they used to. Eve seems so small and close now that everyone has capital ships and jump freighters, there's no sense of living on the edge when it takes 3 carrier jumps and less than 10 minutes to jump from the furthest system to a 0.4. ~X *This is a problem of a different game mechanic problem - the hard cap on the number of copy/build/invention slots in static stations, combined with the inability of people to put up a high sec pos and offer the slots for open usage of other people, combined with the increasing number of people in eve, is creating lots of hassle for newbies who want to get into manufacturing, and we shouldn't discourage people from doing that. It shouldn't be a case of "You must make 100M/month profit or not have a pos". There should either be more slots in stations or high sec pos's should be cheaper, or people should be able to sell their manufacturing services. What can I say? You're indisputably correct.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.15 20:53:00 - [62] A max-skilled Mack with shield buffer rigs (assuming that's used to make them a little more suicide-resistant) has something like 7300 EHP. A suicide 'geddon with 8 YF-12a smartbombs (Therm damage is the Mack's lowest overall EHP resist, 7000 effective) you'd need to get off 3 volleys of all 8 smarties before you pop them. With a max-skilled cycle timer of 7.5 seconds, there'd be 15 seconds from first to third blast. Now I don't know how fast concord responds, but I bet it'd be before you get that third shot off.
IVeige	Posted - 2009.01.15 21:06:00 - [63] hi i would like to play bowling hulk, any ship i can use to bump effectivelay ?
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.15 23:37:00 - [64] Originally by: Malcanis What can I say? You're indisputably correct. ORLY? I think that's the first time someone on the EVE forums has ever said those words to me. tear ~X
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.16 00:14:00 - [65] Edited by: Darkeen on 16/01/2009 00:17:43 Originally by: Dirk Magnum I hate to say it but IMO the bigger jackass in the PvP transaction that is suicide anti-macro PvP is the legitimate player. Killing macro miners does nothing. At all. They have a bottomless pool of ISK to replace their ships, they don't lose more than a few minutes of their time because all they have to do is grab another ship and reactivate the macro, there are hundreds of them at work across various systems protected by buffed CONCORD and NPC corp mechanics, the RL companies they work for probably have a plethora of idle accounts skilled up for mining to replace accounts that get successfully petitioned. To kill one just to say you did it is one thing, but smartbombing a gang of them and their pods is just silly (unless you're just trying to run down your sec status.) Actuallu killing them all is a GOOD ideas. As by definition, the are MACRO'ing, not AFK mining... So there is no-one at the PC, just a Macro running commands all the time. So the person/s are away somewhere else (or at worst playing with other screen on an alt/main) and they get ganked... The macro cant run and either shuts down (stopping their ice producing activities) or the player has to re-write the macro to include getting into new mackinaws... and has to buy a whole heap of makinaws... The smart player would set up a POS, build Mackinaws, then go ganking these Makinaws som the macro'ers are forced to buy his WAY overpriced Mak's! Reduces thier isk, increases his, stops them from mining ice whilst the macro is down (or the macro is busy buying and getting into a new ship) and he gets a few Lulz fomr the gankings... I dont see a problem....
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.17 06:43:00 - [66] The cost of killing them is disproportionate. It costs a crew a lot of isk + security status to suicide them. You will spend 3x more isk and time killing them then they spend re-equipping. isk farmers have the upper hand in this game. They basically run it. It will get a LOT worse in the coming months.
Auldslapper	Posted - 2009.01.17 10:31:00 - [67] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? They've been operating in that system and surrounding systems for well over a year and have been petitioned numerous times and not one has been banned from game :s
Typhado3 Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire	Posted - 2009.01.17 10:39:00 - [68] there are actually people out there who create loads of accounts and do this. I havn't seen anything that would distinguish what you've seen as a macro'er not one of these crazy multitasking ice miners.
Exuscon Amarr Frontier Explorations Inc. CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate	Posted - 2009.01.17 10:53:00 - [69] Sounds like EVE is turning into SWG, I wonder how long before CCP sells to SOE?
Auldslapper	Posted - 2009.01.17 11:46:00 - [70] Originally by: Typhado3 there are actually people out there who create loads of accounts and do this. I havn't seen anything that would distinguish what you've seen as a macro'er not one of these crazy multitasking ice miners. most of these aren't totally macro's, they usually have several barges and a hauler, the person behind the keyboard then fly's each barge out to a BM within the ice belt and starts the macro running then just fly's the hauler to collect the ore

Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.17 11:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Grimpak think it's time for me to dust out the mastodoon.... MASTODONNN!!!!! that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans?
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Irida Mershkov that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans? Of course.
Jack Rowanburn PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:13:00 - [73] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Xiaodown Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates. Completely agreed. There should be 90% fewer pos's in 0.0. It's a bad game mechanic. What CCP should do is 1.) actually enforce the EULA and get rid of macro miners (heh, don't hold my breath amirite?). 2.) lower the fuel requirements on high sec pos's somehow (so that people will still have their copy/invention slots etc)* 3.) increase the ice-products related fuel cost of 0.0 POSs by 10x. This will fix almost all 0.0 "big alliance owns territory that 99% of the time is empty" problems. Mining for ice should be BORING and HORRIBLY TIME CONSUMING, and ice products should be EXPENSIVE BEYOND BELIEF. This will have the bonus side effect of making it expensive to jump capital ships and fire DDD's. Actually, now that I think about it, the cheap availability of Ice products really is at the heart of the downfalls of a LOT of game mechanics. If it cost 150M to fire a DDD, people wouldn't hotdrop 2 titans on gangs of 5 cruisers. If it cost 50M every max-range carrier jump, people would start traveling alot more like they used to. Eve seems so small and close now that everyone has capital ships and jump freighters, there's no sense of living on the edge when it takes 3 carrier jumps and less than 10 minutes to jump from the furthest system to a 0.4. ~X This is a problem of a different game mechanic problem - the hard cap on the number of copy/build/invention slots in static stations, combined with the inability of people to put up a high sec pos and offer the slots for open usage of other people, combined with the increasing number of people in eve, is creating lots of hassle for newbies who want to get into manufacturing, and we shouldn't discourage people from doing that. It shouldn't be a case of "You must make 100M/month profit or not have a pos". There should either be more slots in stations or high sec pos's should be cheaper, or people should be able to sell their manufacturing services. What can I say? You're indisputably correct. Unfortunately not. I can't say anything about points 2 or 3 for lack of experience but point 1: CCP Do ban macro miners. They do so as well as they are able because they have to be very VERY careful. If they banned just one legitimate player on the say so of one persons petition that renders the whole system useless. Even if they have 30 petitions and it turns out the person was a legitimate player that would be a bad day - CCP would have set the precedent that enough petitions and you can get anyone banned, and not necessarily just for macroing after that. Not to mention from a customer service point of view if you * of one person you likely lose more than one customer or potential customer ------------- Originally by:** CCP Wrangler These players, now all they'll do is post and post about the extension to the extended downtime. Geez, it's not the end of the world after all...
ZenSun Total Mayhem. Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:18:00 - [74] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? And people wonder why the market is totally fecked? woops
Irida Mershkov Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2009.01.17 12:29:00 - [75] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Irida Mershkov that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans? Of course. Maybe that should be changed to giving you an aggression timer against the miner who uses the can. So instead you can pop macro-miners cans to stop them selling the ISK.
Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 13:10:00 - [76] Originally by: Irida Mershkov Originally by: Grimpak that's a question actually, do you get Concorded for popping cans? Better still, just ninja flip their cans with a couple of Cranes and a Orca in a safe to keep unloading at.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.17 13:54:00 - [77] Originally by: Rethie Better still, just ninja flip their cans with a couple of Cranes and a Orca in a safe to keep unloading at. We're talking about Giant Secure Cans here — you can't quite flip those… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:35:00 - [78] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rethie Better still, just ninja flip their cans with a couple of Cranes and a Orca in a safe to keep unloading at. We're talking about Giant Secure Cans here ù you can't quite flip thoseà GSC are only lockable if they are anchored (maybe I am wrong?) and you can't anchor if you are in NPC , so they are in private corp if they are anchored, which means an easy wardec gives you reds, empire or not.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:42:00 - [79] Originally by: Rethie GSC are only lockable if they are anchored (maybe I am wrong?) and you can't anchor if you are in NPC No. Being in an NPC corp doesn't keep you from anchoring your cans.
Rethie Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.17 20:52:00 - [80] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rethie GSC are only lockable if they are anchored (maybe I am wrong?) and you can't anchor if you are in NPC No. Being in an NPC corp doesn't keep you from anchoring your cans. Brain fart, sorry, early morning blues, sec region status stops anchoring, duhh!!

Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.17 23:22:00 - [81] Edited by: Irish Blend on 17/01/2009 23:27:10 Originally by: Roderak Pleem I was doing some roaming a month or so ago.. checking out some systems in minmatar space I hadn't been to. Hit a high sec dead end system, 40-50 names in local, most, but not all were gibberish names. The number of ppl in local was unusual for the systems I had just been through (between 0 and 10 ppl) Then I noticed there was an ice belt in the system, so I fly over to check it out. I see three groups of ships. Each group was 1 orca, 8 mackinaws, and 1 itty V flying back and forth to a local station. (there could have been two itty V's per group, one in transit) There was about 80km between the groups, so they didnt step on each others toes..I didnt see any GSC's in this op. You could definitely 'bowl' with these groups of ships.. the orca literally surrounded my 8 mackinaws. Each mackinaw hitting a different piece of ice. I didnt do the math.. but the amount of ice they were mining must have been staggering. I am in a system right now with 74 people in local, I should check out that ice belt...hmm there is no belts in this system at all. They must be macro mission runners Gibberish names? You mena like xx in front or back or both? or l or 1 or 3 or leet or l337 speak? Yep - get rid of all those kinds of peopkle I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce http://www.skamarakas.com/jim Got a question about EVE Online, ask. If I know the answer, I will tell
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 18:35:00 - [82] There are a lot of clowns that do the name thing. There is one thing they can do to weed regular players from farmers easily.. The farmers' weakness is their account sharing. A toon is logged in for a 23 hour period.. every day I have written down a farmers name and gone to bed.. Got up the next morning - still there Went to work and came home - still there. Wash, rinse, repeat. Compile a list, watch them and ban them. One (1) person could make a difference in the farmer population. If one person took that on the farmer population would plummet.. BUT! CCP would lose probably 1/3 of their playerbase. That is 1/3 of their income. Farmers are basically paying CCP off.
ToTheCore Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.18 22:25:00 - [83] Originally by: Irish Blend Gibberish names? You mena like xx in front or back or both? or l or 1 or 3 or leet or l337 speak? Yep - get rid of all those kinds of peopkle Take a look at the signature of the poster below you. That is what is meant by gibberish names. Names like 'xxl33tm4cr0xx' tend to be stupid and unreadable at best, but it usually seems fairly obvious that someone created a character named that on purpose.
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.18 22:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Loyal Servant There are a lot of clowns that do the name thing. There is one thing they can do to weed regular players from farmers easily.. The farmers' weakness is their account sharing. A toon is logged in for a 23 hour period.. every day And what will you get a farmer banned for? Playing more then you?
Clair Bear Perkone	Posted - 2009.01.18 22:49:00 - [85] You want macros gone from highsec? Get on board with the "1 billion ISK PLEX" initiative. Spammed ISK goes for 2x secure system ISK. When PLEXes hit 1B it will no longer be profitable to ice mine at current ice prices. Not even 23x7. If you are selling GTCs think about holding off a month or two. If you're not a GTC seller consider investing in one or more for the good of Eve (and my wallet). If you are a Jita trader consider daytrading them with the aim of pushing up buy order prices.
Roderak Pleem Minmatar Abandoned Land	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:05:00 - [86] Originally by: Irish Blend Edited by: Irish Blend on 17/01/2009 23:27:10 Originally by: Roderak Pleem I was doing some roaming a month or so ago.. checking out some systems in minmatar space I hadn't been to. Hit a high sec dead end system, 40-50 names in local, most, but not all were gibberish names. The number of ppl in local was unusual for the systems I had just been through (between 0 and 10 ppl) Then I noticed there was an ice belt in the system, so I fly over to check it out. I see three groups of ships. Each group was 1 orca, 8 mackinaws, and 1 itty V flying back and forth to a local station. (there could have been two itty V's per group, one in transit) There was about 80km between the groups, so they didnt step on each others toes..I didnt see any GSC's in this op. You could definitely 'bowl' with these groups of ships.. the orca literally surrounded my 8 mackinaws. Each mackinaw hitting a different piece of ice. I didnt do the math.. but the amount of ice they were mining must have been staggering. I am in a system right now with 74 people in local, I should check out that ice belt...hmm there is no belts in this system at all. They must be macro mission runners Gibberish names? You mena like xx in front or back or both? or l or 1 or 3 or leet or l337 speak? Yep - get rid of all those kinds of peopkle Just for the hell of it, I went back to a system next door to where I saw these ice miners with gibberish, yes gibberish names, and took the following screenshot of one of the groups of ships in the ice field: Gedugaud Ice Miners 1900x1100 Here we see FPOP, currently in wcro5 corp, previously of wcro2 corp, previously of wcro1 corp. Most people would call this orca pilot a corp jumper. Jumping corp when a war dec happens. Or, maybe the guy didn't like wcro1 corp and left and went to wcro2 corp because it was twice as good as wcro1.. etc.. we can certainly guess whatever we want.. right? Perhaps this is a valid player with a bunch of valid alts surrounding him paying for some other valid eve accounts like yours.. who knows.. looks lame to me.
State Security Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.19 07:32:00 - [87] Originally by: Loyal Servant yada yada yada... CCP would lose probably 1/3 of their playerbase. That is 1/3 of their income. Farmers are basically paying CCP off. ahem ISK Farmers, what can you buy with ISK? GTC's ISK Farmers play for free my friend. CCP is getting jack-all for them being there besides being boned right in the duty hole. We the player base get holed too because we have to deal with the spam and the players who buy billions of ISK to gain advantage over those of us who don't.
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:07:00 - [88] Every MMO has whiners who complain about macros but dont do anything about it If they bother you do what we did years ago - get in a gang of kestrels and go kill them over and over and over till your forehead is bloody and you give up. Then leave them alone and dont buy from them If no one buy sfrom them there is no market for them and they go away. A farmer who sells their ISK fr a GTC to play for free still gets hard cash in CCP's hands via the GTC purchaser - your not doing the math if you think people playing on GTC's dont buy money in CCPs pockets I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce http://www.skamarakas.com/jim Got a question about EVE Online, ask. If I know the answer, I will tell
Auldslapper	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:13:00 - [89] Originally by: State Security ahem ISK Farmers, what can you buy with ISK? GTC's ISK Farmers play for free my friend. The slight problem with that is that someone has to buy the gtc in the first place to feed the farmers requirements, CCP still get the extra $$ from all these gtc's that the farmers are using it's just that it doesn't come directly from the farmers
Companion Qube	Posted - 2009.01.19 10:52:00 - [90] Edited by: Companion Qube on 19/01/2009 10:52:08 Use groups of gankfit destroyers and spike them one by one, the mackinaws will be dealt with. Gank destroyers are cheeeeeeeeeap

Surfs Down	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:35:00 - [91] Don't you guys get it. CCP ARE the Macro Ice miners. Jeesh... it is blinding obvious. They are artificially inflating the ISK value for PLEX and GTC's. Here is how it works. If I can sell my PLEX for 1bn ISK then the value of my real money goes further. If I can only get say 200m ISK for it then one may be tempted to use an ISK seller.<-- No flames please. I have not and never will use an ISK seller. The less PLEX and GTC's that are available the more ISK they are worth. At some point the value to buy through the PLEX/GTC system will exceed the amount that a Macro can generate on one account in the time period the PLEX/GTC is available thereby removing cash incentive to real Macro Miners. It's simple supply and demand and it saves me from mining Ice which is a balls ache at the best of times.
Mithius Fear	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:44:00 - [92] Another way to work this is the beer to playing time ratio. If I have to spend 3 solid days in ubber mack to mine/haul/refine enough ice for a month then really that is 3 days I am not in the pub. So cost of night in pub is circa = ú40 GBP x 3 = ú120 GBP. Now lets say that it will take 1 night to mine enough ABCs that I can then sell to buy POS fuel. Getting POS fuel and fueling maybe another night. That means at this point I have saved ú50 GBP ( other ú30 GBP went to buying in beer to drink at home). Now effectively I have 50 extrs quid in my pocket that I can use to buy some GTCs. Now that is a lot of ISK and beer to playing time ratio is maintained.
Capt Sly	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:11:00 - [93] another possible solution.... Massive NPC rat spawns in ice fields in high sec. BS, BC and cruiser. Stuff big enough to kill Macro Macks.
Hoody	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:13:00 - [94] Originally by: Capt Sly another possible solution.... Massive NPC rat spawns in ice fields in high sec. BS, BC and cruiser. Stuff big enough to kill Macro Macks. Would make mining a lot more interesting
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:18:00 - [95] Why do I get the feeling that all these 'soulutions' are from people who never once warped to an ice belt and are running off forum propaganda. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:39:00 - [96] Originally by: Zeba Why do I get the feeling that all these 'soulutions' are from people who never once warped to an ice belt and are running off forum propaganda. They are from forum trolls who dont know what it takes in a single Mack to mine enough ice to refine to get enough isotopes to run a single large POS If they knew how much work it took they would understand why people live in the ice belts I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce http://www.skamarakas.com/jim Got a question about EVE Online, ask. If I know the answer, I will tell
Capt Sly	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:51:00 - [97] Nope don't know how much work it is. Must be a lot because everybody doing it is way too busy too talk.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:42:00 - [98] Edited by: Loyal Servant on 19/01/2009 22:42:12 Originally by: Irish Blend Originally by: Zeba Why do I get the feeling that all these 'soulutions' are from people who never once warped to an ice belt and are running off forum propaganda. They are from forum trolls who dont know what it takes in a single Mack to mine enough ice to refine to get enough isotopes to run a single large POS If they knew how much work it took they would understand why people live in the ice belts Ever visit an ice belt? Ever see the number of isk farmers in those belts? Just because it takes a lot of 'time' it must be okay to break the rules and make it harder for smaller outfits that like to mine. Or is it because the farmers tell this sad story of playing games so they can send that $5 a month back to their parents in some small fishing village back west? Perhaps you actually approve of the other illegal activities that they are doing while buying and selling isk, or their means of obtaining it? Farmers are not only involved in isk trading but a lot of them are into other kinds of fraud. Edit: typo
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:12:00 - [99] Originally by: Loyal Servant Ever visit an ice belt? Ever see the number of isk farmers in those belts? Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. Quote: Just because it takes a lot of 'time' it must be okay to break the rules and make it harder for smaller outfits that like to mine. Ice is not like a normal roid that pops after a few cycles as they insane amounts of ice units in each piece of ice and there are hundreds of the things in an ice belt so anyone and everyone who has a fancy to mine some ice will always have plenty to go round. Quote: Or is it because the farmers tell this sad story of playing games so they can send that $5 a month back to their parents in some small fishing village back west? Perhaps you actually approve of the other illegal activities that they are doing while buying and selling isk, or their means of obtaining it? Farmers are not only involved in isk trading but a lot of them are into other kinds of fraud. Edit: typo Well this last part is a troll so no need to make a reasoned reply.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:19:00 - [100] Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. Originally by: Zeba Ice is not like a normal roid that pops after a few cycles as they insane amounts of ice units in each piece of ice and there are hundreds of the things in an ice belt so anyone and everyone who has a fancy to mine some ice will always have plenty to go round. So because there 'is enough to go around' means that it's okay for isk farmers to mine them? Do you actually believe this stuff you are typing up?

Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:58:00 - [101] Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. No low sec anywhere near me at all and I can go to Jita unhindered by any low sec as well as several other nearby hubs. Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Ice is not like a normal roid that pops after a few cycles as they insane amounts of ice units in each piece of ice and there are hundreds of the things in an ice belt so anyone and everyone who has a fancy to mine some ice will always have plenty to go round. So because there 'is enough to go around' means that it's okay for isk farmers to mine them? Do you actually believe this stuff you are typing up? Do you actually believe even if you farm ice 23/7 its worth even a minute fraction in isk of all the other stuff in eve that can be effectively farmed? Ice is for pos fuel, jump drives, doomsdays and not for making isk. The ice in empire what little of it is left has concentrated all the people who need ice for thier high sec pos into an extreamly limited area hence in certain systems the lone ice belt for that whole region being filled to near capacity. Are some of them macro users? Probably. Are all of them farmers? Of course but they farm pos fuel not [/i]isk so they produce none of those gloom and doom financial instabilitys that are attributed to isk farmers. Bit of a difference if you stop to think instead of twitch. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:59:00 - [102] Slow down boys, I'm running low on tin foil hats! The Market is going crazy for them with all these witch hunts happening! BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:02:00 - [103] Originally by: Spurty Slow down boys, I'm running low on tin foil hats! The Market is going crazy for them with all these witch hunts happening! Thats the funny thing about this whole little side witch hunt. Ice isn't a market force to be reckoned with its just an annoying thing that has to be mined so you can make the real iskies with your pos structures. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Argus Greymoore Gallente Tides of Silence	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:08:00 - [104] Go to Ardallabier. For months there's been the same 7 guys in the ice belt. Each has a random 4 character name, all in the same starter corp. 6 Mack's and one itty 5. They are there 23/7. It speaks for itself, and and only a blind person could not see the abuse going on there, like in many other ice belts.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:11:00 - [105] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? No, that idea is stupid, really. Ice in high sec is fine, and its not even that good ice.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:24:00 - [106] Quote: Smartbombing won;t kill a mackinaw in a 0.7 system after the CONCORD buffs. If you can't figure out how to smartbomb them out of existance you aren't thinking hard enough. Just don't solo. This is a game of cooperative play as well as pvp play. It will just take more assets to remove them than before.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:48:00 - [107] Originally by: Surfs Down Don't you guys get it. CCP ARE the Macro Ice miners. Jeesh... it is blinding obvious. They are artificially inflating the ISK value for PLEX and GTC's. Here is how it works. If I can sell my PLEX for 1bn ISK then the value of my real money goes further. If I can only get say 200m ISK for it then one may be tempted to use an ISK seller.<-- No flames please. I have not and never will use an ISK seller. The less PLEX and GTC's that are available the more ISK they are worth. At some point the value to buy through the PLEX/GTC system will exceed the amount that a Macro can generate on one account in the time period the PLEX/GTC is available thereby removing cash incentive to real Macro Miners. It's simple supply and demand and it saves me from mining Ice which is a balls ache at the best of times. Finally someone with sense! Plausable Deniability!
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.20 03:19:00 - [108] Originally by: Surfs Down Don't you guys get it. CCP ARE the Macro Ice miners. Jeesh... it is blinding obvious. They are artificially inflating the ISK value for PLEX and GTC's. Here is how it works. If I can sell my PLEX for 1bn ISK then the value of my real money goes further. If I can only get say 200m ISK for it then one may be tempted to use an ISK seller.<-- No flames please. I have not and never will use an ISK seller. The less PLEX and GTC's that are available the more ISK they are worth. At some point the value to buy through the PLEX/GTC system will exceed the amount that a Macro can generate on one account in the time period the PLEX/GTC is available thereby removing cash incentive to real Macro Miners. It's simple supply and demand and it saves me from mining Ice which is a balls ache at the best of times. Where's Occam's Razor gone..... --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Tanaka Atsuko Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.20 04:42:00 - [109] this is proof that CCP supports ISK buying by allowing macorwers to go unpunished and by providing them greater protection withthe concord buff
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 05:19:00 - [110] Originally by: Tanaka Atsuko this is proof that CCP supports ISK buying by allowing macorwers to go unpunished and by providing them greater protection withthe concord buff They support it by the fact that if you buy isk your likely to keep your account. I talked to a guy that bought isk more than 10 times and got caught twice. He does not care.. he has loads of money and if they catch him buying a billion isk be buys another billion and he is back at 0 Thing is, it does not take a rocket scientist to see the same gibberish names in the ice field 23/7 and realize that they are farming for isk. People ask.. why ice? and justify it by saying people need it for DDs and pos and jump fuel, etc etc. They are right you need ice product for all of those things. 'Oh there is no money in it' is a famous one. It's easier for the farmers to farm ice than it is for them to run missions and ninja rat. ice mining can be turned into a serious macro operation, and that is what it is. There is a human on hand controlling the 15 or so accounts that are farming ice so if you do something to them they are going to correct it.

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 07:13:00 - [111] Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. screnshot 1 screenshot 2 Ice belt: 1, check High sec system: 0.5 , check Near a trade hug?: amarr 6 jumps, Jita 14, check First pick was taken with 47K+ people in play, second with 25k+ people in play. I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? In the second instance the only guy mining ice was I for at least 1 hour.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 08:04:00 - [112] I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me.
Surfs Down	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:17:00 - [113] Quote: I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? I fail to see your Ice mining upgrades. You sir fail!!!!
Lord Roshan SUBLIME L.L.C. SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:43:00 - [114] Edited by: Lord Roshan on 20/01/2009 10:44:34 If you keep destroying Mackinaw's. They will run out. Mack's are Tech 2, So insurance gives back only a fraction. Also it takes 300-500 seconds each duration of 4 units of Ice on each Mackinaw. Current Ice value is 60,000-80,000. It averages at 70,000 normally. So 4 Units equals to 280,000 ISK every 300-500 seconds (5-8 minutes) per ship/duration. The current average price of a Mackinaw is 80,000,000 ISK. If a Mackinaw is Destroyed, It will take 286 Durations on a Mackinaw, minus the Insurance, Which only pays back 20-30 mil. Now you may say they have groups, So with a group of say, 5 Mackinaw Ships, they will make the money 5 times as fast. However, Yous are forgetting. If you used Smartbombs to destroy the groups of ships. You not only Destroy 1, You will have destroyed all of them. Which balances it out, So that they must saveup 5 times more, Because of loosing 5 ships. So them saving up 5 times as fast, Will mean very little. Keep destroying them when they bring out New Ships. Their wallet is not bottomless. They will go broke very quickly.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:01:00 - [115] Originally by: Surfs Down Quote: I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? I fail to see your Ice mining upgrades. You sir fail!!!! You fail to use "hide passive modules" and show little knowledge of EVE.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:06:00 - [116] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/01/2009 12:07:01 Originally by: Loyal Servant I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me. You go to a system, you see people mining ice, you scream macro. There is a huge bias in your evaluation system. For you anyone mining ice is a macro. Edit: just to point it, most people seeing your name would scream "Meaningless name: Macro".
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.20 14:42:00 - [117] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/01/2009 12:07:01 Originally by: Loyal Servant I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me. You go to a system, you see people mining ice, you scream macro. There is a huge bias in your evaluation system. For you anyone mining ice is a macro. Edit: just to point it, most people seeing your name would scream "Meaningless name: Macro". Its more than that. Always the same pattern. -npc corp -random name -no standings -no bio -no employment history -online 23/7 -same activity -inhuman precision -no socializing -no response to harrasment or even destruction -crap fits -same creation date as other players in group No human can do what these guys do. Only a dedicated farmer or macro. In the rare possibility it is a normal player who simply plays too much, they deserve to be ganked too.
Callista Omenswarm Astronautical Engineering	Posted - 2009.01.20 15:09:00 - [118] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Its more than that. Always the same pattern. -npc corp -random name -no standings -no bio -no employment history -online 23/7 -same activity -inhuman precision -no socializing -no response to harrasment or even destruction -crap fits -same creation date as other players in group No human can do what these guys do. Only a dedicated farmer or macro. In the rare possibility it is a normal player who simply plays too much, they deserve to be ganked too. But again, that doesn't prove Macro. There's one operation that runs out of Halaima 23/7, guy drops a jet can and has around 5 macks. I've greifed a couple of times, bumping off roids, stealing can, etc.. every time this guy reacts.. drops drones, switches to his GSC, picks up from my cans. Never says a word though. Farmer, but not a macro. If mining all day every day is what he wants to do, he's free to. Who's to say he isn't some Tech Support person playing at work?
Shadowschild	Posted - 2009.01.20 15:30:00 - [119] Farmers are in every MMO i've played. It's so blatantly obvious too. WHy is it always the same story??? Hiding behind the game mechanics & never getting banned??? WTF!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:24:00 - [120] Call the Witchsmeller Pursuivant to end the horrid ice mining scourge once and for all!

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:37:00 - [121] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Its more than that. Always the same pattern. -npc corp -random name -no standings -no bio -no employment history -online 23/7 -same activity -inhuman precision -no socializing -no response to harrasment or even destruction -crap fits -same creation date as other players in group No human can do what these guys do. Only a dedicated farmer or macro. In the rare possibility it is a normal player who simply plays too much, they deserve to be ganked too. Always the same reply: "I am incapable of recognizing a player using multiple accounts from a macro, so I call them macro." Note that I all the post I have seen I am the only one to post a screenshot of a ice belt at different times of the day. No one so far has bothered trying to document that the people he call is on 23/7 is on line at different times. Sure macro exist, but are much more rare than people think, most are people multiaccounting. And nothing in the EULA is against multiaccounting.
Joss Sparq Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:54:00 - [122] Originally by: Trogglodite No. Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. Don't like it? Get in there, smart bomb them, play bowling, whatever - but don't suggest that everyone mining ice is a macro'er and throw them all to the pirates to please yourself. 1) Contrary to popular (and uninformed) belief, jumping into low-security space doesn't automatically result in the destruction of your vessel by pirates, player or otherwise. 2) He did not suggest everyone mining ice is a macro user, though he did suggest that many ice miners are. That is an important difference which you're missing there. Next, Originally by: Dirk Magnum I hate to say it but IMO the bigger jackass in the PvP transaction that is suicide anti-macro PvP is the legitimate player. Killing macro miners does nothing. At all. They have a bottomless pool of ISK to replace their ships, they don't lose more than a few minutes of their time because all they have to do is grab another ship and reactivate the macro, there are hundreds of them at work across various systems protected by buffed CONCORD and NPC corp mechanics, the RL companies they work for probably have a plethora of idle accounts skilled up for mining to replace accounts that get successfully petitioned. To kill one just to say you did it is one thing, but smartbombing a gang of them and their pods is just silly (unless you're just trying to run down your sec status.) I see Dirk has a good summary of the overall situation/problem. Generally, try to avoid podding them unless you're planning to spend some time living in low security space - or beyond - as a result. Originally by: Dirk Magnum lol I've started stealing from these guys in Tolle I just grabbed a load of ice in my Prowler but it seems that blue ice sells for ** so I gotta go grab a Mammoth. Do these macroers ever fight back or are they all just afk all the time? Back in my "good old days" when I'd started playing EVE, having dabbled in PvP and started harassing those whom I asssumed (by observation) were macro controlled characters I could expect a fight every so often - but not very often. One of the more memorable was an Iteron V that chose to fight back v.s. my Badger II. I can only describe it as being like watching whales try to mate - in slow motion. From memory I won because I had a Light Neutron Blaster v.s. their Light Electron/Ion Blaster, or something silly like that. We had each other scrambled and were sitting off station because of pre-Warp to Zero days. I eventually switched to the Mammoth as I quickly found it to be more flexible plus I liked fitting a dual 180mm AC to it to plink the other feisty Iterons I provoked. Originally by:** Dirk Magnum Oh in case anyone was wondering as soon as you park a hauler next to one of their jet cans they warp in an Itty 5 and switch the jet can with LSC's. Someone over at the macro warehouse is watching what's going on at least The only solace I get from it is that at least they have to work a little harder for their ill gotten gains.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 20:08:00 - [123] Originally by: Zeba Call the Witchsmeller Pursuivant to end the horrid ice mining scourge once and for all! Just gonna quote myself caused I missed sniping the fifth page and its totaly comparative of whats going on in this thread. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Lt Angus Caldari End Game. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 21:08:00 - [124] Originally by: Shadowschild Farmers are in every MMO i've played. It's so blatantly obvious too. WHy is it always the same story??? Hiding behind the game mechanics & never getting banned??? WTF! Farming is not against the rules, explain why you think it should be?
Blastil	Posted - 2009.01.20 21:49:00 - [125] Originally by: Joss Sparq Post. Logic. Make. Brain. EXPLODE! seriously, lowsec FTW. We need more industry down here. And since POS'es are mainly a lowsec/0.0 thing, I think that mining for their ice should all happen there anyway. The only thing highsec POSes do is make manufacturing easier, and if your tired of crouded production ques, you should move out to lowsec. No wait times out here.
ggfdfasdgfsfdg	Posted - 2009.01.20 21:56:00 - [126] Originally by: Lt Angus Originally by: Shadowschild Farmers are in every MMO i've played. It's so blatantly obvious too. WHy is it always the same story??? Hiding behind the game mechanics & never getting banned??? WTF! Farming is not against the rules, explain why you think it should be? this
Tonglil Caldari Cosmic Euphoria Inc.	Posted - 2009.01.21 06:52:00 - [127] Hear me out? --- How about instead of moving belts into lowsec, move them to isolated highsec pocket system without a station. Macros will be harder to create since the surrounding systems will be lowsec with pirates. --- Visit my EVE blog EVE's Weekend Warrior @ http://evewarrior.com See ya around and fly safe capsuleers!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.21 13:17:00 - [128] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Loyal Servant I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me. You go to a system, you see people mining ice, you scream macro. There is a huge bias in your evaluation system. For you anyone mining ice is a macro. Edit: just to point it, most people seeing your name would scream "Meaningless name: Macro". Its more than that. Always the same pattern. -npc corp -random name -no standings -no bio -no employment history -online 23/7 -same activity -inhuman precision -no socializing -no response to harrasment or even destruction -crap fits -same creation date as other players in group No human can do what these guys do. Only a dedicated farmer or macro. In the rare possibility it is a normal player who simply plays too much, they deserve to be ganked too. Instead of labelling them at first meeting I have checked them a little while on line, it is only a few jump and I can spare the time. Results: - 19: all 6 guys in your image are in system, 3 in the belts 3 docked. They haven't left station for some minute (AFK and logged? maybe); - 7 AM: only 3 of them in system, mining ice; - 13: all 6 in system and mining ice, in 2 different groups. Nothing conclusive but: 1) at least 3 of them aren't mining 23/7 2) probably 3 of them aren't macros as they aren't docking, dropping cargo and returning in the belt as a macro would do; 3) 3 of them are probably sharing the account (but they could have my same sleep schedule). I haven't definitely disproved that they are macros or isk farmer, but I think I have proved that Loyal Servant observation was based more on his wish to find macro user than on real facts. My impression is that most of the "macro haters" use the same approach. They see something dubiousand immediately label it as a macro, without any attempt to confirm that. Those characters (the 2 groups of 3 characters, BTW) could be easily alts of two players with a good PC running 3 of them at the same time to fuel some 0.0 POS, or of some guy farming isk running them in the background while at work: Remember that isk farming is not against the EULA, isk selling is against the EULA. If isk farming was against the EULA ratters would be the first to be banned from the game.
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.21 13:28:00 - [129] Originally by: Venkul Mul Always the same reply: "I am incapable of recognizing a player using multiple accounts from a macro, so I call them macro." Note that I all the post I have seen I am the only one to post a screenshot of a ice belt at different times of the day. No one so far has bothered trying to document that the people he call is on 23/7 is on line at different times. Sure macro exist, but are much more rare than people think, most are people multiaccounting. And nothing in the EULA is against multiaccounting. [/quote Sorry, I dont buy it. If you act like the above, you will be shot. Simple as that.
Ocih Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.21 13:46:00 - [130] The example used says they weren't macro mining. 20 guys jumping to cans in a belt, haulers too. That's quite a ****in macro..

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.21 20:22:00 - [131] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Originally by: Venkul Mul Always the same reply: "I am incapable of recognizing a player using multiple accounts from a macro, so I call them macro." Note that I all the post I have seen I am the only one to post a screenshot of a ice belt at different times of the day. No one so far has bothered trying to document that the people he call is on 23/7 is on line at different times. Sure macro exist, but are much more rare than people think, most are people multiaccounting. And nothing in the EULA is against multiaccounting. [/quote Sorry, I dont buy it. If you act like the above, you will be shot. Simple as that. The point is that you pretend to have the insigth to look a belt and recognize the macro at first glance. So you don't do most of the check you posted early, you only assume they are positive. So be honest and say "I want a excuse to kill miners". A little info: in EVE you don't need excuses to kill people.
Catrha Steinard	Posted - 2009.01.21 20:29:00 - [132] Ok. Macro mining is bad. We all get that. There will always be loopholes to get around crap. But if we can make consequences for them I believe it would disappear. Therefor I propose that we eliminate ALL GSC's from belts. Not only would this reduce lag it would make macro's have to use jet cans. (unless there is another way around it). Just a possible thought. I know everyone loves it when they warp into a belt and find 68238278 GSC's floating around. <sarcasm there>. Might reduce lag too. I dont know. Anyways flame away!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.22 00:12:00 - [133] Originally by: Venkul Mul So be honest and say "I want a excuse to kill miners". A little info: in EVE you don't need excuses to kill people. Absolutely. But what your missing Venkul is that the people here are not playing eve they are playing the forums. Basically every time you say black they will say white and so the forumwars emorage on. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.22 00:57:00 - [134] Originally by: Catrha Steinard Edited by: Catrha Steinard on 21/01/2009 22:15:14 Edited by: Catrha Steinard on 21/01/2009 22:14:44 Ok. Macro mining is bad. We all get that. There will always be loopholes to get around crap. But if we can make consequences for them I believe it would disappear. Therefor I propose that we eliminate ALL GSC's from belts. Not only would this reduce lag it would make macro's have to use jet cans. (unless there is another way around it). Just a possible thought. I know everyone loves it when they warp into a belt and find 68238278 GSC's floating around. <sarcasm there>. I dont know, anyways flame away! Been away from the game for a long time? If you don't renew the GSC it is removed after a month. And people using mackinaws or hulks will not bother with GSC.
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.22 04:48:00 - [135] Edited by: Zex Maxwell on 22/01/2009 04:53:35 Originally by: Emily Spankratchet Originally by: Zex Maxwell Technically, All empire ice belts have been removed. Originally by: Patch Notes Misc: Ice belts have been removed from all systems with 0.8+ security standing Empire != 0.8+ security standing. Ice belts still exist in empire. As do macro/farmers. And now, as mentioned above, they use Orcas. Of course, to get the benefit of the Orca they have to form a corp (for the Orca and hauler pilot). Can we war dec them? No, because they close the corp when the war dec arrives and open a new one. Ad infinitum. And there's nothing you can do to stop that, because apparently it's not an exploit of the war dec system. I don't think you read all my post. They will still be there since there is a lot of units still left in the ice. therefor you have to you just have to bare with the macro miners. PS: even tho tolle is a .7 system IT will still take a long time for all the ice to be gone. CCP is watching ALL the roid and Ice belts in eve. So they are probbly turning down the respawn of ice units, and one the ice belt is dust. it will probbly stay that way sine the micro miners will be the first ones to mine the newly spawned ice. Also note that some belts only spawn 2 times a week. sometimes once. Just wait it out, they will macro miners will soon run out of steam and sell their accounts.
AmmoniaisNH3	Posted - 2009.01.22 07:50:00 - [136] how are you guys stealing ice when they dont use cans :( can you open the orca's cargo?
Valhallas	Posted - 2009.01.22 14:58:00 - [137] So its not really easy to suicide a Mack, and your sec status will drop off like a rock. Its no longer possible to steal from the macroers as the ice is routed thru a GSC. So what does that leave for getting back at the macroers? Well how about suiciding a fully loaded iteron 5. Just spam the itty with a cargo scanner. Once full warp scram, bump then kill it. (Also may require a ship to transfer any dropped cargo to your own can which can then be picked up or destroyed) Would 4 newly created characters trained up to lv3 destroyer be enough to do this?, I'm not sure, 32 t1 blasters on an industrial is a lot, all fully insured of course. Cost per destroyer lost is minimal. When sec status falls too low just bin the characters and create new ones and repeat. It only requires that you keep one of your three character slots free to recycle the characters. I realise that the macroers could switch to direct hauling to the station in thier Macks, but at least thier profits would be down. Any thoughts on this?
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.22 15:02:00 - [138] Originally by: Valhallas Would 4 newly created characters trained up to lv3 destroyer be enough to do this?, I'm not sure, 32 t1 blasters on an industrial is a lot, all fully insured of course. Cost per destroyer lost is minimal. When sec status falls too low just bin the characters and create new ones and repeat. It only requires that you keep one of your three character slots free to recycle the characters. I think that recycling characters for the purpose of ganking farmers will probably get you a ban. Remember, the farmers have more control than we do.
Darth Obvious	Posted - 2009.02.23 02:22:00 - [139] 6 macks swarming around a single Orca fell victim to a single disco Phoon in Kamio tonight. The characters piloting the Mackinaws were probably macros
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.23 02:31:00 - [140] These are common, not just in hi-sec but 0.0 too It's a good thing we have things like the Ice Preservation Society to fight this menace, but it is not always enough. - Infectious -

Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.02.23 17:13:00 - [141] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? It's time a LOT of the over plentiful resources of Hisec got moved to low or just plain removed. well mannered ah*
Ryoken McKeon Galactic Defence Syndicate Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.23 17:49:00 - [142] Step 1: Insure your battleship Step 2: Fit with Smartbombs Step 3: Warp to ice field Step 4: Find largest concentration of mackinaws Step 5: Disco! Step 6: Get friends in haulers to take all the ice that drops
Insa Rexion Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ	Posted - 2009.02.23 18:06:00 - [143] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. screnshot 1 screenshot 2 Ice belt: 1, check High sec system: 0.5 , check Near a trade hug?: amarr 6 jumps, Jita 14, check First pick was taken with 47K+ people in play, second with 25k+ people in play. I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? In the second instance the only guy mining ice was I for at least 1 hour. can I has a trade hug, i is lonely well mannered ah*


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