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Surfs Down	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:35:00 - [91] Don't you guys get it. CCP ARE the Macro Ice miners. Jeesh... it is blinding obvious. They are artificially inflating the ISK value for PLEX and GTC's. Here is how it works. If I can sell my PLEX for 1bn ISK then the value of my real money goes further. If I can only get say 200m ISK for it then one may be tempted to use an ISK seller.<-- No flames please. I have not and never will use an ISK seller. The less PLEX and GTC's that are available the more ISK they are worth. At some point the value to buy through the PLEX/GTC system will exceed the amount that a Macro can generate on one account in the time period the PLEX/GTC is available thereby removing cash incentive to real Macro Miners. It's simple supply and demand and it saves me from mining Ice which is a balls ache at the best of times.
Mithius Fear	Posted - 2009.01.19 18:44:00 - [92] Another way to work this is the beer to playing time ratio. If I have to spend 3 solid days in ubber mack to mine/haul/refine enough ice for a month then really that is 3 days I am not in the pub. So cost of night in pub is circa = ú40 GBP x 3 = ú120 GBP. Now lets say that it will take 1 night to mine enough ABCs that I can then sell to buy POS fuel. Getting POS fuel and fueling maybe another night. That means at this point I have saved ú50 GBP ( other ú30 GBP went to buying in beer to drink at home). Now effectively I have 50 extrs quid in my pocket that I can use to buy some GTCs. Now that is a lot of ISK and beer to playing time ratio is maintained.
Capt Sly	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:11:00 - [93] another possible solution.... Massive NPC rat spawns in ice fields in high sec. BS, BC and cruiser. Stuff big enough to kill Macro Macks.
Hoody	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:13:00 - [94] Originally by: Capt Sly another possible solution.... Massive NPC rat spawns in ice fields in high sec. BS, BC and cruiser. Stuff big enough to kill Macro Macks. Would make mining a lot more interesting
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:18:00 - [95] Why do I get the feeling that all these 'soulutions' are from people who never once warped to an ice belt and are running off forum propaganda. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Irish Blend Caldari 10045th Logistics Battalion	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:39:00 - [96] Originally by: Zeba Why do I get the feeling that all these 'soulutions' are from people who never once warped to an ice belt and are running off forum propaganda. They are from forum trolls who dont know what it takes in a single Mack to mine enough ice to refine to get enough isotopes to run a single large POS If they knew how much work it took they would understand why people live in the ice belts I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce http://www.skamarakas.com/jim Got a question about EVE Online, ask. If I know the answer, I will tell
Capt Sly	Posted - 2009.01.19 19:51:00 - [97] Nope don't know how much work it is. Must be a lot because everybody doing it is way too busy too talk.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.19 22:42:00 - [98] Edited by: Loyal Servant on 19/01/2009 22:42:12 Originally by: Irish Blend Originally by: Zeba Why do I get the feeling that all these 'soulutions' are from people who never once warped to an ice belt and are running off forum propaganda. They are from forum trolls who dont know what it takes in a single Mack to mine enough ice to refine to get enough isotopes to run a single large POS If they knew how much work it took they would understand why people live in the ice belts Ever visit an ice belt? Ever see the number of isk farmers in those belts? Just because it takes a lot of 'time' it must be okay to break the rules and make it harder for smaller outfits that like to mine. Or is it because the farmers tell this sad story of playing games so they can send that $5 a month back to their parents in some small fishing village back west? Perhaps you actually approve of the other illegal activities that they are doing while buying and selling isk, or their means of obtaining it? Farmers are not only involved in isk trading but a lot of them are into other kinds of fraud. Edit: typo
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.19 23:12:00 - [99] Originally by: Loyal Servant Ever visit an ice belt? Ever see the number of isk farmers in those belts? Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. Quote: Just because it takes a lot of 'time' it must be okay to break the rules and make it harder for smaller outfits that like to mine. Ice is not like a normal roid that pops after a few cycles as they insane amounts of ice units in each piece of ice and there are hundreds of the things in an ice belt so anyone and everyone who has a fancy to mine some ice will always have plenty to go round. Quote: Or is it because the farmers tell this sad story of playing games so they can send that $5 a month back to their parents in some small fishing village back west? Perhaps you actually approve of the other illegal activities that they are doing while buying and selling isk, or their means of obtaining it? Farmers are not only involved in isk trading but a lot of them are into other kinds of fraud. Edit: typo Well this last part is a troll so no need to make a reasoned reply.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:19:00 - [100] Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. Originally by: Zeba Ice is not like a normal roid that pops after a few cycles as they insane amounts of ice units in each piece of ice and there are hundreds of the things in an ice belt so anyone and everyone who has a fancy to mine some ice will always have plenty to go round. So because there 'is enough to go around' means that it's okay for isk farmers to mine them? Do you actually believe this stuff you are typing up?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:58:00 - [101] Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. No low sec anywhere near me at all and I can go to Jita unhindered by any low sec as well as several other nearby hubs. Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Ice is not like a normal roid that pops after a few cycles as they insane amounts of ice units in each piece of ice and there are hundreds of the things in an ice belt so anyone and everyone who has a fancy to mine some ice will always have plenty to go round. So because there 'is enough to go around' means that it's okay for isk farmers to mine them? Do you actually believe this stuff you are typing up? Do you actually believe even if you farm ice 23/7 its worth even a minute fraction in isk of all the other stuff in eve that can be effectively farmed? Ice is for pos fuel, jump drives, doomsdays and not for making isk. The ice in empire what little of it is left has concentrated all the people who need ice for thier high sec pos into an extreamly limited area hence in certain systems the lone ice belt for that whole region being filled to near capacity. Are some of them macro users? Probably. Are all of them farmers? Of course but they farm pos fuel not [/i]isk so they produce none of those gloom and doom financial instabilitys that are attributed to isk farmers. Bit of a difference if you stop to think instead of twitch. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Spurty Caldari Technologic Dance	Posted - 2009.01.20 00:59:00 - [102] Slow down boys, I'm running low on tin foil hats! The Market is going crazy for them with all these witch hunts happening! BrRAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiNNNNNNZzzzzzzzzzzz
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:02:00 - [103] Originally by: Spurty Slow down boys, I'm running low on tin foil hats! The Market is going crazy for them with all these witch hunts happening! Thats the funny thing about this whole little side witch hunt. Ice isn't a market force to be reckoned with its just an annoying thing that has to be mined so you can make the real iskies with your pos structures. inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Argus Greymoore Gallente Tides of Silence	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:08:00 - [104] Go to Ardallabier. For months there's been the same 7 guys in the ice belt. Each has a random 4 character name, all in the same starter corp. 6 Mack's and one itty 5. They are there 23/7. It speaks for itself, and and only a blind person could not see the abuse going on there, like in many other ice belts.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:11:00 - [105] Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. 30+ Mackinaws in local, all in the single Ice belt there, with Macro'esque names and 'players' that don't respond to convo (i know what you were about to say, don't please.) and reside exclusively in NPC corps. They fly in gangs of 4 or more with each member within 1k of another, they move from one GSC to another with the cans anchored in a line that following the entirety of the belt. Every 3 minutes an itty 5 warps in to the bottom can, emptys it and warps back to the same station it left from. 3 minutes later it warps back into the belt but to the can next up the chain. Apparently, according to the few legit miners left there, this is the norm for that system and the operation is almost constant. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? No, that idea is stupid, really. Ice in high sec is fine, and its not even that good ice.
Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:24:00 - [106] Quote: Smartbombing won;t kill a mackinaw in a 0.7 system after the CONCORD buffs. If you can't figure out how to smartbomb them out of existance you aren't thinking hard enough. Just don't solo. This is a game of cooperative play as well as pvp play. It will just take more assets to remove them than before.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.20 01:48:00 - [107] Originally by: Surfs Down Don't you guys get it. CCP ARE the Macro Ice miners. Jeesh... it is blinding obvious. They are artificially inflating the ISK value for PLEX and GTC's. Here is how it works. If I can sell my PLEX for 1bn ISK then the value of my real money goes further. If I can only get say 200m ISK for it then one may be tempted to use an ISK seller.<-- No flames please. I have not and never will use an ISK seller. The less PLEX and GTC's that are available the more ISK they are worth. At some point the value to buy through the PLEX/GTC system will exceed the amount that a Macro can generate on one account in the time period the PLEX/GTC is available thereby removing cash incentive to real Macro Miners. It's simple supply and demand and it saves me from mining Ice which is a balls ache at the best of times. Finally someone with sense! Plausable Deniability!
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Dusk Blade	Posted - 2009.01.20 03:19:00 - [108] Originally by: Surfs Down Don't you guys get it. CCP ARE the Macro Ice miners. Jeesh... it is blinding obvious. They are artificially inflating the ISK value for PLEX and GTC's. Here is how it works. If I can sell my PLEX for 1bn ISK then the value of my real money goes further. If I can only get say 200m ISK for it then one may be tempted to use an ISK seller.<-- No flames please. I have not and never will use an ISK seller. The less PLEX and GTC's that are available the more ISK they are worth. At some point the value to buy through the PLEX/GTC system will exceed the amount that a Macro can generate on one account in the time period the PLEX/GTC is available thereby removing cash incentive to real Macro Miners. It's simple supply and demand and it saves me from mining Ice which is a balls ache at the best of times. Where's Occam's Razor gone..... --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal I went to the forums for special powers and all I got was a dancing padlock and a banhammer.
Tanaka Atsuko Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.20 04:42:00 - [109] this is proof that CCP supports ISK buying by allowing macorwers to go unpunished and by providing them greater protection withthe concord buff
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 05:19:00 - [110] Originally by: Tanaka Atsuko this is proof that CCP supports ISK buying by allowing macorwers to go unpunished and by providing them greater protection withthe concord buff They support it by the fact that if you buy isk your likely to keep your account. I talked to a guy that bought isk more than 10 times and got caught twice. He does not care.. he has loads of money and if they catch him buying a billion isk be buys another billion and he is back at 0 Thing is, it does not take a rocket scientist to see the same gibberish names in the ice field 23/7 and realize that they are farming for isk. People ask.. why ice? and justify it by saying people need it for DDs and pos and jump fuel, etc etc. They are right you need ice product for all of those things. 'Oh there is no money in it' is a famous one. It's easier for the farmers to farm ice than it is for them to run missions and ninja rat. ice mining can be turned into a serious macro operation, and that is what it is. There is a human on hand controlling the 15 or so accounts that are farming ice so if you do something to them they are going to correct it.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 07:13:00 - [111] Originally by: Loyal Servant Originally by: Zeba Yes. Matter of fact there is one in the high sec system im mining missions in and there is never anyone there. Hell even the belts are full of untouched ore. I have seen them, too. The reason there are no farmers in them is because they are... A. In lowsec B. have no direct hisec path to jita. Meaning they are in hisec but you have to go thru lowsec to get there. screnshot 1 screenshot 2 Ice belt: 1, check High sec system: 0.5 , check Near a trade hug?: amarr 6 jumps, Jita 14, check First pick was taken with 47K+ people in play, second with 25k+ people in play. I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? In the second instance the only guy mining ice was I for at least 1 hour.
Loyal Servant Caldari PURE Legion KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.20 08:04:00 - [112] I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me.
Surfs Down	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:17:00 - [113] Quote: I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? I fail to see your Ice mining upgrades. You sir fail!!!!
Lord Roshan SUBLIME L.L.C. SUBLIME CREATIONS ALLIANCE	Posted - 2009.01.20 10:43:00 - [114] Edited by: Lord Roshan on 20/01/2009 10:44:34 If you keep destroying Mackinaw's. They will run out. Mack's are Tech 2, So insurance gives back only a fraction. Also it takes 300-500 seconds each duration of 4 units of Ice on each Mackinaw. Current Ice value is 60,000-80,000. It averages at 70,000 normally. So 4 Units equals to 280,000 ISK every 300-500 seconds (5-8 minutes) per ship/duration. The current average price of a Mackinaw is 80,000,000 ISK. If a Mackinaw is Destroyed, It will take 286 Durations on a Mackinaw, minus the Insurance, Which only pays back 20-30 mil. Now you may say they have groups, So with a group of say, 5 Mackinaw Ships, they will make the money 5 times as fast. However, Yous are forgetting. If you used Smartbombs to destroy the groups of ships. You not only Destroy 1, You will have destroyed all of them. Which balances it out, So that they must saveup 5 times more, Because of loosing 5 ships. So them saving up 5 times as fast, Will mean very little. Keep destroying them when they bring out New Ships. Their wallet is not bottomless. They will go broke very quickly.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:01:00 - [115] Originally by: Surfs Down Quote: I fail to see the hordes of macro miners mining 23/7. Maybe instead of "every ice system, at every time of the day" it is some system, mostly near Jit, and all the rest is propaganda? I fail to see your Ice mining upgrades. You sir fail!!!! You fail to use "hide passive modules" and show little knowledge of EVE.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.20 12:06:00 - [116] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/01/2009 12:07:01 Originally by: Loyal Servant I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me. You go to a system, you see people mining ice, you scream macro. There is a huge bias in your evaluation system. For you anyone mining ice is a macro. Edit: just to point it, most people seeing your name would scream "Meaningless name: Macro".
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.20 14:42:00 - [117] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/01/2009 12:07:01 Originally by: Loyal Servant I just went to a system 1 jump from where I was... and what do I find... A crew of macro isk farmers in the belt in a back end system. Linkage Got me I guess there are none. That is not a lot but it's 6 plus 1 hauler. I can go to all kinds of systems up north and guaranteed to find 100 in one belt alone. There were 8 people in this system... 7 isk farmers and me. You go to a system, you see people mining ice, you scream macro. There is a huge bias in your evaluation system. For you anyone mining ice is a macro. Edit: just to point it, most people seeing your name would scream "Meaningless name: Macro". Its more than that. Always the same pattern. -npc corp -random name -no standings -no bio -no employment history -online 23/7 -same activity -inhuman precision -no socializing -no response to harrasment or even destruction -crap fits -same creation date as other players in group No human can do what these guys do. Only a dedicated farmer or macro. In the rare possibility it is a normal player who simply plays too much, they deserve to be ganked too.
Callista Omenswarm Astronautical Engineering	Posted - 2009.01.20 15:09:00 - [118] Originally by: Huberek Morchu Its more than that. Always the same pattern. -npc corp -random name -no standings -no bio -no employment history -online 23/7 -same activity -inhuman precision -no socializing -no response to harrasment or even destruction -crap fits -same creation date as other players in group No human can do what these guys do. Only a dedicated farmer or macro. In the rare possibility it is a normal player who simply plays too much, they deserve to be ganked too. But again, that doesn't prove Macro. There's one operation that runs out of Halaima 23/7, guy drops a jet can and has around 5 macks. I've greifed a couple of times, bumping off roids, stealing can, etc.. every time this guy reacts.. drops drones, switches to his GSC, picks up from my cans. Never says a word though. Farmer, but not a macro. If mining all day every day is what he wants to do, he's free to. Who's to say he isn't some Tech Support person playing at work?
Shadowschild	Posted - 2009.01.20 15:30:00 - [119] Farmers are in every MMO i've played. It's so blatantly obvious too. WHy is it always the same story??? Hiding behind the game mechanics & never getting banned??? WTF!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.20 19:24:00 - [120] Call the Witchsmeller Pursuivant to end the horrid ice mining scourge once and for all!

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