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Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:46:00 - [31] Originally by: Dirk Magnum lol I've started stealing from these guys in Tolle I just grabbed a load of ice in my Prowler but it seems that blue ice sells for **** so I gotta go grab a Mammoth. Do these macroers ever fight back or are they all just afk all the time? When I made one of my combat alts I used him to nick ore and ice in minnie space as something to do to keep occupied as I flipped skills. All the ice miners I nabbed ice who did talk couldn't care less about a load or two gone missing as they have to mine for days to get the quota for pos fuel and figured out to acknowledge the thieves presence usually spurred them on to keep stealing just for the attention as stealing ice is [i]really[i] low profit. So yeah you can steal all day long but its like one of the least profitable things to do in eve past afk mining a veld roid in an indy.
Bish Ounen Gallente Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Dirk Magnum I hate to say it but IMO the bigger jackass in the PvP transaction that is suicide anti-macro PvP is the legitimate player. Killing macro miners does nothing. At all. They have a bottomless pool of ISK to replace their ships, they don't lose more than a few minutes of their time because all they have to do is grab another ship and reactivate the macro, there are hundreds of them at work across various systems protected by buffed CONCORD and NPC corp mechanics, the RL companies they work for probably have a plethora of idle accounts skilled up for mining to replace accounts that get successfully petitioned. To kill one just to say you did it is one thing, but smartbombing a gang of them and their pods is just silly (unless you're just trying to run down your sec status.) THIS. Far better to just steal from their cans. (assuming jetcans or unanchored secure cans) Why not make a profit off of them? Now, if they are using Anchored secure cans then you are out of luck on that front. not much you can do then but be somewhat annoying.
NSSQUAD	Posted - 2009.01.15 03:53:00 - [33] Edited by: NSSQUAD on 15/01/2009 03:54:39 ok now all you guys who are defending them you make good points but your still ***** footing around the bush. there is no saying no it doesn't happen for this no matter what you guys bring to the table. because it really is happening and when you do come across a blob of people with "fghsgfhgfhsdfyhsty" as there name yes there is a problem=this needs to be handled with a swift boot the the macro miners. how can it be so hard to just make a program that scans eve for outside programs influencing the game. crist back in 2000 that was an possibility. p.s. dont you love to just get your hauler and keep stealing there ore? i find most of the time they ship is there but no one at the helm. so feel free to steal to your hearts ditsier.
Zex Maxwell Caldari	Posted - 2009.01.15 05:40:00 - [34] Edited by: Zex Maxwell on 15/01/2009 05:41:01 Originally by: RedSplat Tolle. Isnt it about time all ice got moved to Lowsec? Technically, All empire ice belts have been removed. or what was said by CCP, that they removed the respawn of all ice belts in empire. The reason why they are still there is because of the Large amounts of units that are in each ice roid. Take a scanner in with you and you will see what I am talking about. Since the ice mining is not doing so well with the market, hardly anyone mines them other then stupid lazies and macro miners. so those belts will be there for a long time. i will give them another year before they are totally gone.
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.01.15 06:45:00 - [35] So much hate for play'a. You have any idea how hard it is to code your own macro programs to EVE? You should get respect from that! "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of ~~gold~~crap"
Emily Spankratchet Minmatar Pragmatics	Posted - 2009.01.15 08:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Zex Maxwell Technically, All empire ice belts have been removed. Originally by: Patch Notes Misc: Ice belts have been removed from all systems with 0.8+ security standing Empire != 0.8+ security standing. Ice belts still exist in empire. As do macro/farmers. And now, as mentioned above, they use Orcas. Of course, to get the benefit of the Orca they have to form a corp (for the Orca and hauler pilot). Can we war dec them? No, because they close the corp when the war dec arrives and open a new one. Ad infinitum. And there's nothing you can do to stop that, because apparently it's not an exploit of the war dec system.
Futuristic Eagle League of Gentlemen Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.01.15 10:33:00 - [37] Heh, I saw one of these little clusters yesterday. Me and a corpmate tried to bait them with cans full of ice named the same as theirs, it didnt work sadly. Pity, I wanted an easy orca kill =(. Screeny. Umm... yeah... Isk farmers?
Grimpak Gallente Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:33:00 - [38] think it's time for me to dust out the mastodoon.... --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Lithyia Theia	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:47:00 - [39] 2 years ago no one did ever defend macro miners on the forum, what has changed? I think you who are defending them now must be WOW players.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Gunnanmon Interesting, I'm going to send an alt there tonight to get some of that free ice. Where's the issue? he just said they use GSC's... Also, the ice isn't worth much due to farmers. Originally by: Zeba Amazing description of the way any normal player group in eve would organize and run an ice mining op in one of the last places in high sec to gather pos fuel materials. Organized player groups tend to use player corps. Originally by: Trogglodite No. Why should I become pirate fodder just so that I can feed my POS because you don't like the fact that others are abusing macro's. You don't have to personally mine the ice used to fuel your POS. Non-solo players can mine plenty of ice in low sec and 0.0 and then use jump freighters or whatever to move it somewhere safe for your to buy.
Silent Killa Xeno Tech Corp MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:09:00 - [41] Farmers yummmmmmmmmm http://macrointel.eve-kb.org/
PinkMonkey Dragon	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:35:00 - [42] back when i cared more, i would troll the ice macros.. mostly i would just steal MASSIVE amounts of ice from them.. they mined faster than a 35km3 occator could haul it.. made hundreds of millions.. BUT, i also petitioned them. one day, they would just diapear. i stole so much ice from one macro that he actually started trying to talk to me (it made NO sense at all. NONE. random words from a babel fish, imho)... and oddly, he didnt stop me. i dont know if the ice miners were on another comp out of his control or what, but either he didnt, or wouldnt, or couldnt stop me... i ended up with 1200 ice. 3 days later, petition kicked in.. never saw them again. by my estimation, i have got 50+ macros banned in ice belts.. and i stoped trying 1.5-2 years ago. SO, petition with EVERY bit of evidence you can find to prove they're a macro.. and, then, start stealing from them if ya can. imho, half the haulers in those ops arnt macroing, they are THE one real person--leave them off the macro petition, because if the GM's get even ONE of them to talk durring an op, they wont ban them (because onyl unattended macros are against the rules)
Squably Minmatar Invenio Inceptum	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:56:00 - [43] I love those idiotic macro gangs, they jettison into cans, get a gang of some cruisers n steal the ice from the cans before the itty gets there.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:26:00 - [44] Lets just try this idea... they don't speak your language. There are hundreds of reasons why a person would not reply to you when you are bugging them in local or even directly using a convo If they are really macro's bump them... push them out of the belt ans see what happens. If you al of a sudden get screamed at in a language you do not understand then things are quite clear. If this is indeed a macro, good for the owner, send in a petition and get on with life. Macro's are stupid, but people who sit in a belt for hours on end trying to figure out if they are inteligent beings or trying to communicate with them are...
David Grogan Gallente The Motley Crew	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:27:00 - [45] can u jam macro miners so they cannot lock roids or ice without concord popping your ass? it would be great if u could cos we could create macro jammers to find and jam macro miners lol
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Josh Causto Hey lets see, I sure do love low ice prices, and I'm sure CCP love those subscriptions they get from macroers. Nope I don't think CCP will do anything soon. Soon? Ever.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:32:00 - [47] So they are macromining ICE, whoopeedo... Ice mining is even more boring than regular mining and should be abolished from the game or should indeed be a completely automated process imo. In fact I find the farmers (macro or not) quite fitting for their role. They actually mine ice as work which is more or less the only reason why somebody would do it, certainly not for fun. And I simply do not see it as a very profitable occupation. The ice it self does not generate isk out of thin air, while missions do. And it will not take me many missions before I can buy ice isotopes to fuel my POS for weeks. And for mining, you would make more isk/hour by mining Veldspar at some mission site than ice. I can only guess there is a ice farming industry going on as it is so incredible simple to do, and by that notion very boring too. I guess there must be some kind of demand for the isotopes, but it does not seem so bad as the prices are low. So while farmers might be an eyesore to some I do not really care about them as long as they stick to low level income procedures. Again, the ice in it self is not an isk faucet and ice mining is not an interesting occupation at all. I would like to see ice mining disappear completely when we see some POS reforms later on.
Huberek Morchu	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:47:00 - [48] If a real legit player(s) is using 5 mackinaws, all npc corp, all random names, mining ice 23/7, never talks, they deserve to be ganked. WE ARE AT WAR WITH MACROS. If you act like one, you will be shot.
Gunnanmon Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:26:00 - [49] Out of interest, does anyone know of a chat channel what relays information about "dubious" mining operations? I'm bored with missions, and might wanna sacrifice a few Ravens for something to do. The Ghost-training vote thread
Komen Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:28:00 - [50] Speaking as a former miner, the only part about 30 people with a hauler making regular trips to empty cans into the station that suggests macros, is the gobbledy**** names of the characters in question. And these might not be macros, but alts of a corp which is 0.0 based and mines ice itself to fuel POS's. On the other hand, they very well might be macros. Who can tell? Well, the devs could, I'm betting, by tracing the easiest trail of all - where do the ice/refined products go? It's all logged in the database. Hell, you know what? Here's a simple tool - look for ice being mined over periods of...let's say longer than 10 hours, by the same character. If you see a character mining 23/7, then you've either got someone who doesn't sleep playing your game, or else you've got an EULA violation - account sharing, macro, whatever. So here, CCP, is your flowchart: Search for mining activity. Say a random sample of 1000 characters every day. Did they mine? No? Move on. Yes? Okay, how many mining cycles? Under 10 hours per day - let 'em go. Over 10? Now how many days in a row have they mined. Etc. Honestly, I feel very strongly about this. Either take an active role in enforcing your EULA, or else don't be surprised that no-one takes it seriously. Depending on players to report these violations is WEAK SAUCE. There's a quote I remember imperfectly - an unenforced law weakens all other laws, or something to that effect. Being that the EULA is a form of 'law' for conduct in game, the quote applies.
Concorduck Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 14:33:00 - [51] They need to make one huge blob of 50+ mackinaw around a single can. More Profitable. ----------------------------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn Contact the CSM about it, voting themselves into disbandment wouldn't be pushing the boundaries of absurdity for them.
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Futuristic Eagle Heh, I saw one of these little clusters yesterday. Me and a corpmate tried to bait them with cans full of ice named the same as theirs, it didnt work sadly. Pity, I wanted an easy orca kill =(. Screeny. Umm... yeah... Isk farmers? Omg, that is just absurd, look at all the ships! I wish I had a few suicide bombers there :P The thing is, that normal miners must feel stupid and waisting their time (cus of low prices for ore) when things like this happen. ----------------- Destiny is not a matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It's not a thing to be waited for - it is a thing to be achieved.
Salliene Gallente Trinity Acquisitions	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:27:00 - [53] 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about.
Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:42:00 - [54] Oh in case anyone was wondering as soon as you park a hauler next to one of their jet cans they warp in an Itty 5 and switch the jet can with LSC's. Someone over at the macro warehouse is watching what's going on at least
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.	Posted - 2009.01.15 15:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates.
Kazang Gallente Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton I think all mining should be macroized... it's ****ing boring Quoted for great truth!
Haclya Caldari The Red Ring	Posted - 2009.01.15 16:42:00 - [57] Originally by: Huberek Morchu If a real legit player(s) is using 5 mackinaws, all npc corp, all random names, mining ice 23/7, never talks, they deserve to be ganked. WE ARE AT WAR WITH MACROS. If you act like one, you will be shot. some times legit player who don't talk have the main char linked in bio if want to talk is smart to chek the bio to I hate marcos to but I always chek the bio just in case ,if like to gank just gank all then
Xiaodown coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.01.15 17:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Salliene 1 - This is EVE. Stop coming up with silly justifications for why you want to grief someone, just go do it. It's allowed, it's encouraged, it's how EVE works. Saying that you only grief macro'ers is like saying you only murder drug dealers. You're still a murderer no matter what your stretched logic tells you. 2 - What I would wonder is if we ripped out all the macro miners and forced player corps to mine their own ice, how much of an impact that would have on 0.0. Right now a large alliance has to devote very little time to keeping their POS fueled outside of hauling. Imagine if BoB or the Goons suddenly had to provide their own ice for the hundreds (thousands?) of POS'es they have without the help of unaffiliated macro farmers? Might be interesting, might not, just something I am curious about. I think it would have a fantastic effect on 0.0 POS spam is one of the things that everyone hates. Completely agreed. There should be 90% fewer pos's in 0.0. It's a bad game mechanic. What CCP should do is 1.) actually enforce the EULA and get rid of macro miners (heh, don't hold my breath amirite?). 2.) lower the fuel requirements on high sec pos's somehow (so that people will still have their copy/invention slots etc)* 3.) increase the ice-products related fuel cost of 0.0 POSs by 10x. This will fix almost all 0.0 "big alliance owns territory that 99% of the time is empty" problems. Mining for ice should be BORING and HORRIBLY TIME CONSUMING, and ice products should be EXPENSIVE BEYOND BELIEF. This will have the bonus side effect of making it expensive to jump capital ships and fire DDD's. Actually, now that I think about it, the cheap availability of Ice products really is at the heart of the downfalls of a LOT of game mechanics. If it cost 150M to fire a DDD, people wouldn't hotdrop 2 titans on gangs of 5 cruisers. If it cost 50M every max-range carrier jump, people would start traveling alot more like they used to. Eve seems so small and close now that everyone has capital ships and jump freighters, there's no sense of living on the edge when it takes 3 carrier jumps and less than 10 minutes to jump from the furthest system to a 0.4. ~X *This is a problem of a different game mechanic problem - the hard cap on the number of copy/build/invention slots in static stations, combined with the inability of people to put up a high sec pos and offer the slots for open usage of other people, combined with the increasing number of people in eve, is creating lots of hassle for newbies who want to get into manufacturing, and we shouldn't discourage people from doing that. It shouldn't be a case of "You must make 100M/month profit or not have a pos". There should either be more slots in stations or high sec pos's should be cheaper, or people should be able to sell their manufacturing services. -- Sig under construction.
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:44:00 - [59] Sorry i haven't elaborated more on the OP post, i was busy defending Macro usage and downplaying its role in the selling of isk elsewhere.
Faife Federation of Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2009.01.15 18:58:00 - [60] Originally by: RedSplat Sorry i haven't elaborated more on the OP post, i was busy defending Macro usage and downplaying its role in the selling of isk elsewhere. Sorry i haven't trolled your thread, i was too busy feasting on your delicious non-macro tears

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