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Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:08:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Tzar'rim
You can talk all you want but it still stands; if you lose the main way of interacting with unknown players you fall into some sort of autistic gameplay; everyone in their own little box of friends and no interaction at all.
That paragraph makes no sense at all.
It was already explained to you that local still works for chatting. You can initiate convos all you like. Besides corp, alliance, public channels and voice services all will still work - so how did you cook up that autistic scenario above?
The low sec mining op doesn't chat via local - they use gang chat. The incoming pirate doesn't chat in local until *after* the kill when he brags about it.
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Lets be honest, you want to remove local since that would give you more targets and more targets is good ofcourse.
You are very much mistaken. I want "delayed" local (you see - it's still there - just doesn't show people until they start convo - which they still can do any time they want) even though I never ganked innocents (hey - WT ain't innocents :-) ) at gate and have no intention of ever going pirate.
I want danger. I want interesting. I want challenging.
Delayed Local (you don't appear in list until you write in local) improves challenging for *everybody*.
The very same feature that helps the ganker also helps the potential gankee. :-)
Sure - innocent little mining/ratting/missioning op doesn't see ebil bunch of pirates appear in system - unless they have scouts doing probes.
But at the same time pirates can't just roam through 20 systems quickly and check within a second if there are potential targets in system. They have to put in a bit of effort too - send scouts around, make guesses about what systems are more likely to have targets. They'll roam less systems in a given timeframe - which - if you happen to be in a nice off-the-beaten-path system means you'll be safer for longer than you were before (though *feeling* less safe at the same time - good thing).
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Even better if that means that effort is rewarded over being passive. Still, simply removing it and going "there, that's done" is the wrong way to do it and I haven't come up, or read a realistic, reasonable and intelligent idea on how to change local without the downsides.
Ahem - that debate happened couple years ago - and never quite stopped. Some of it even realistic and reasonable. |
Zaknussem
Caldari
Intrum Industria
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:13:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Zeba
However mining in w-space is going to be harder than 0.0 due to the ai enabled rats that will avoid the standard bs tankers and commence to popping your mining ships left and right.
Question: Is this something you know for a fact, or just another assumption on your behalf? This thread sadly contains too much of the latter.
I remain neutral on the thread topic itself, as I am not in a position to judge whether local is broken in any way, nor do I have any suggestions to improve it. |
Sade Onyx
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:22:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Zeba
Tbh I guess we need a clarification from the devs on what they mean by delayed local. 
Agreed
Originally by: Perry
Most of us remember a bug which removed local for some hours after a patch a year ago. It was awesome. Till i started a 1v1 and 10sec later 10 more hostiles arrive and i have to bail. So yeah, removing local would not improve PvP one bit in my opinion,
What this highlights is that removing Local will widen the gap between new players and experienced players, well actually it would make these two classes of players so far apart that you may as well split Eve into two servers. |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:24:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Zeba
Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 11:09:49
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Originally by: Rex Lashar
How is local affected in these new systems under the new map and scanner changes? How is it affected everywhere else?
How local chat will work in wormhole systems and the degree to which we will roll any changes out to the rest of the EVE universe is still under discussion. Personally I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems.
A great opportunity is being laid at our, the rightious pod pilots of New Eden, feet to voice our will in a grand concerto of solidarity! If you want w-space to be truely free and wild then let CCP Whisper know you are behind his epic idea to make a genuine radical game mechanic change in how Eve is played for the betterment of us all.
Thumbs up if you are down with CCP Whisper. edit: whoops forgot to add the madatory Discuss! Flame! Troll Away!
Now with added dev content! Please read the whole thread and give your approval for making this feature a development priority only after careful thought.
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
remove local entirely in w-space ... |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:24:00 -
[95]
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.  |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:25:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Zaknussem
Originally by: Zeba
However mining in w-space is going to be harder than 0.0 due to the ai enabled rats that will avoid the standard bs tankers and commence to popping your mining ships left and right.
Question: Is this something you know for a fact, or just another assumption on your behalf? This thread sadly contains too much of the latter.
Its an educated guess based on info gleened from dev posts and my own personal knowledge of programming ai to make tactical and strategic descisions in a hobby enviroment.(SupCom. Sorian is a God.) The devs have stated the ai will switch targets under changing scenarios and I can't help but think the programmers paid just that little bit moar attention to the "Pillage Teh Player Mining Op" script.  |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:34:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Zaknussem
Originally by: Zeba
However mining in w-space is going to be harder than 0.0 due to the ai enabled rats that will avoid the standard bs tankers and commence to popping your mining ships left and right.
Question: Is this something you know for a fact, or just another assumption on your behalf? This thread sadly contains too much of the latter.
We don't know how much "harder" they'll be. But we know from devblog that officer spawns in eve-space and Seeker npcs in w-space are supposed to get new and improved AI. I assume the idea behind giving them AI is not to make them behave as simplistic as usual npcs - otherwise there would be no point. So whether they turn out to be real hard or not - it's safe to assume that they are supposed to be tough.
*If* that includes switching targets - or making more reasonable target selections in the first place - then - yes - mining would get harder. Potentialy *a lot* harder.
Standard practice for mining ops in 0.0 has been for years to send in well-tanking BS/Carrier in first and collect all aggro (not killing rats so they don't respawn).
Classic rats don't change targets usually - so next come in the 6 barges and strip the ark belt for hours while the deadly flotilla of rat npcs keeps shooting uselessly at the tank they'll never break.
Even the slightest change in that predictable behaviour would change all 0.0 mining. Notice that in eve-space only officer spawns are going to get AI for now - so most 0.0 mining can go on unchanged.
With even slightly less predictable rats hauler and barges would be fitted a bit differently and a mining op would need more firepower to fight off rats in time before they wipe out all barges.
One fact that too many in empire don't know - there is nothing more carebearish than mining within core of alliance territory. You get plenty warning before invaders cross border systems. The rats never target you. The macros didn't wipe the belt days ago. No random low sec gankers to threaten your mining op. No war declaration bothering you at all. You can have more risk for less value mining in high sec empire than in well run alliance space.
Core alliance space *is* high sec if your alliance territory is big enough.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:41:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Zeba
Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 07:37:03
Originally by: Venkul Mul
No, not until there are better systems to see hostiles than mashing local scan every 30 seconds and hoping they are within 14 AU.
Most of the people in W space will not be in a deadspace area (at most some of the exploration sites will be in deadspace, but not even that is certain) and even with the current probes it will be easy to scan and pinpoint them from outside the range of the on board scanner.
Good thing they are introducing a completely new easy to use after you figure it out flexible low fitting probe launcher system that will be available for use on any ship with the added feature of reuseable place anywhere you want warp capable probes.
Also:
Question: this is an attempt at misinformation or simply you are bad at reading comprehension?
The "completely new easy to use after you figure it out flexible low fitting probe launcher system" work only to find anomalies, it will not find ships .
To make it even better probes will be totally removed from the list of items you can scan for. So with the new probing system under development there is no way to detect a cloaked prober. And no way to detect an enemy ship with the low fitting probe launcher.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:49:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Zeba
Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 07:37:03
Originally by: Venkul Mul
No, not until there are better systems to see hostiles than mashing local scan every 30 seconds and hoping they are within 14 AU.
Most of the people in W space will not be in a deadspace area (at most some of the exploration sites will be in deadspace, but not even that is certain) and even with the current probes it will be easy to scan and pinpoint them from outside the range of the on board scanner.
Good thing they are introducing a completely new easy to use after you figure it out flexible low fitting probe launcher system that will be available for use on any ship with the added feature of reuseable place anywhere you want warp capable probes.
Also: Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
Question: this is an attempt at misinformation or simply you are bad at reading comprehension?
The "completely new easy to use after you figure it out flexible low fitting probe launcher system" work only to find anomalies, it will not find ships .
To make it even better probes will be totally removed from the list of items you can scan for. So with the new probing system under development there is no way to detect a cloaked prober. And no way to detect an enemy ship with the low fitting probe launcher.
I think you may be slightly incorrect on one point Venkul-
I think that the dev blog said that probes wouldn't be able to be probed out, not that they don't show up on the scanner. So people will still be able to see probes out in space, you just can't get a hit on one and warp to it. |
Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:49:00 -
[100]
Reserved, it's a big post |
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Element 22
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:50:00 -
[101]
Another reserve, I did say it's a big post didn't I |
RedSplat
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:51:00 -
[102]
I support local being delayed in 0.0 and W-Space.
Further i would like to see -5 sec status pilots and below that sec not appearing in ANY local in the game unless they speak in it first.
Outlaws and pirates broadcasting their presence to potential victims? That is just idiocy, breaks immersion and panders to those that dock up the moment anything Red enters system. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:56:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Lets be honest, you want to remove local since that would give you more targets and more targets is good ofcourse.
Wrong I want it removed for greater safety on my expeditions into w-space. Moast players are lazy and won't be arsed to have to go throught the motions of a quick manual scan at the planets and so will leave me alone. This promotes smarter tactics past probing out a wormhole checking local to see if someone is there and if not going to the next system. This puts all the power in the roamers hands as they only have to spend a few seconds to let let local load a system instead of having to do a proper scout. We will eventually have this feature as it just makes sense an all accounts in w-space but the devs have all the info so I will not emorage against their position just try to subtly(or not) bump up its sense of priority.
You're either trying to hide your true reasons or you're sorely mistaken. You are ofcourse right in stating that most people are alergic to effort but lets have a look at the 2 sides;
- someone in Wspace doing their thing, they're occupied with rats and most of them will be (lets be honest) PVEers who don't/can't understand anything over "more damage on my CNR" and "increase mining yield!!!". Result is them not paying attention too much
- a small group of active hunters trying to find some juicy targets, they got their scout, falcons, dps and neuts all ready to rock
Guess who'll benefit the most from removing local? I'm all for effort=benefits, it's my mantra so to speak and removing local would actually benefit my 'line of work'. But that doesn't automatically mean that I'll agree to it.
To add to your good post, lets look how it will work for the scanner in the two groups:
- roaming gang scanner: enter system, drop probes, scan for target ships and next wormhole at the same time. If he find nothing at the first or second try, recall probes and jump outside the WH space. Time needed? 2-5 minutes.
- PvE/Miners group scanner: drop probes, scan to see if someone enter the system, repeat, repeat, repeat and so on, until the gang has cleared the system, completed the mining op and is ready to leave the system. Time spent clicking "scan"? several hours, without doing anything different and in a ship that probably will be incapable of doing anything different. Mining ice is more exciting.
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Evelgrivion
Ignatium.
Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:56:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Zeba
Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 11:09:49
Originally by: CCP Whisper
Originally by: Rex Lashar
How is local affected in these new systems under the new map and scanner changes? How is it affected everywhere else?
How local chat will work in wormhole systems and the degree to which we will roll any changes out to the rest of the EVE universe is still under discussion. Personally I want local to be in delayed mode in wormhole systems.
A great opportunity is being laid at our, the rightious pod pilots of New Eden, feet to voice our will in a grand concerto of solidarity! If you want w-space to be truely free and wild then let CCP Whisper know you are behind his epic idea to make a genuine radical game mechanic change in how Eve is played for the betterment of us all.
Thumbs up if you are down with CCP Whisper. edit: whoops forgot to add the madatory Discuss! Flame! Troll Away!
Now with added dev content! Please read the whole thread and give your approval for making this feature a development priority only after careful thought.
Wasn't the entire point of PrismX's post that he'd love to see local replaced, while simultaneously expressing how there is a need for a surrogate system that provide basic intelligence, and isn't worse than what local is now?
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:02:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Wasn't the entire point of PrismX's post that he'd love to see local replaced, while simultaneously expressing how there is a need for a surrogate system that provide basic intelligence, and isn't worse than what local is now?
If you had did as I asked in the op and read the entire thread before commenting you would have realised that I'm asking for it to be noticebly moved up the priority list for development hopefully to be implimented in m10 and not 'lulz i rwantin no loclz nao doo eet nao nao nao!!!1111'
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:10:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
- PvE/Miners group scanner: drop probes, scan to see if someone enter the system, repeat, repeat, repeat and so on, until the gang has cleared the system, completed the mining op and is ready to leave the system. Time spent clicking "scan"? several hours, without doing anything different and in a ship that probably will be incapable of doing anything different. Mining ice is more exciting.
As I stated in an earlier post the npc are not going to be pushovers and the majority of miners in a w-system are going to want maximum yield so a well tanked orca or command ship is going to be a given along with your combat ships. Now last time I remember doing that job is even less appealing than mining ice so why not stick a probe launcher on and scan for ships and sites as you relax to the gentle whoosh of the strip miners? I know your just trying to bring some spice to the thread but at least get your argument right. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:13:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The "completely new easy to use after you figure it out flexible low fitting probe launcher system" work only to find anomalies, it will not find ships .
To make it even better probes will be totally removed from the list of items you can scan for. So with the new probing system under development there is no way to detect a cloaked prober. And no way to detect an enemy ship with the low fitting probe launcher.
I think you may be slightly incorrect on one point Venkul-
I think that the dev blog said that probes wouldn't be able to be probed out, not that they don't show up on the scanner. So people will still be able to see probes out in space, you just can't get a hit on one and warp to it.
I asked that question on the thread and got no reply.
In this post I used "scan" as a synonym of "probe", not as a reference to the directional scanner.
So to rephrase: a probe will not be a selectable category when you are using a probe launcher and probes to probe a system .
No idea if the probes (charge) will appear on the directional scanner, but the directional scanner has a operative range way shorter than the current existing probes.
We really need a set of synonyms for scan e probe.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:16:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Venkul Mul
- PvE/Miners group scanner: drop probes, scan to see if someone enter the system, repeat, repeat, repeat and so on, until the gang has cleared the system, completed the mining op and is ready to leave the system. Time spent clicking "scan"? several hours, without doing anything different and in a ship that probably will be incapable of doing anything different. Mining ice is more exciting.
As I stated in an earlier post the npc are not going to be pushovers and the majority of miners in a w-system are going to want maximum yield so a well tanked orca or command ship is going to be a given along with your combat ships. Now last time I remember doing that job is even less appealing than mining ice so why not stick a probe launcher on and scan for ships and sites as you relax to the gentle whoosh of the strip miners? I know your just trying to bring some spice to the thread but at least get your argument right.
What part of "click scan every 30 seconds for 5 hours is bad" are you missing? |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:21:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Zeba on 02/02/2009 13:23:01
Originally by: Venkul Mul
What part of "click scan every 30 seconds for 5 hours is bad" are you missing?
Wrong mindset for the target player. The exploration and industrial people who will be attracted to this space are raised on the roid scanner and staggering miner II or strips to pull ore out every 30 seconds to get just that little bit extra yield out of an osprey or retreiver. The probers are about the same only its the rescan button instead of dragging ore. They will gladly and easily hit the scan button to stay safe just like they did with the miners.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Denaris Aschanna
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:29:00 -
[110]
So how about if local was set to delayed mode, but every time you ran a scan it would make your presence known to others in the system to some extent?
Not necessarily make you appear in local, but possibly a message flashing up on your screen along the lines of 'Scan pulse detected'. To my mind if you're sending out active scanning signals it's going to light you up like a christmas tree with the amount of energy required for sending out a scan.
This would have the advantage of a: AFK people not paying attention would miss the message, b: People actually watching what they were doing would have some warning and could decide whether or not to safespot, run a scan themselves etc.. just an idea..
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:30:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 02/02/2009 13:31:23
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Lets be honest, you want to remove local since that would give you more targets and more targets is good ofcourse.
Wrong I want it removed for greater safety on my expeditions into w-space. Moast players are lazy and won't be arsed to have to go throught the motions of a quick manual scan at the planets and so will leave me alone. This promotes smarter tactics past probing out a wormhole checking local to see if someone is there and if not going to the next system. This puts all the power in the roamers hands as they only have to spend a few seconds to let let local load a system instead of having to do a proper scout. We will eventually have this feature as it just makes sense an all accounts in w-space but the devs have all the info so I will not emorage against their position just try to subtly(or not) bump up its sense of priority.
Hmm... I have to agree with Tzar'rim. I've been on both ends of scanning someone out in 0.0 and it takes virtually no time at all to pop into the system and use the directional scanner to find miners. In fact I've seen it done so fast in heavily belted systems that the miners don't have time to warp out even WITH local instantly telling them there's a bad guy present.
Making local "delayed mode" would only benefit the pirates that are good with the directional scanner as the other scanner options take way to long to be useful. From what I understand the W-Space wormhole drop in points will be random (I might be wrong here). If that's so then miners or ratters will have absolutely no way to counter the directional scanner of pirates since they can't point at the drop points and scan back. That would be terrible from a design/balance standpoint making W-Space much worse for law abiding citizens than even empire low sec.
Edited for spelling 
---
To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto...
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:33:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Par''Gellen on 02/02/2009 13:33:15
Originally by: Denaris Aschanna
So how about if local was set to delayed mode, but every time you ran a scan it would make your presence known to others in the system to some extent?
Not necessarily make you appear in local, but possibly a message flashing up on your screen along the lines of 'Scan pulse detected'. To my mind if you're sending out active scanning signals it's going to light you up like a christmas tree with the amount of energy required for sending out a scan.
This would have the advantage of a: AFK people not paying attention would miss the message, b: People actually watching what they were doing would have some warning and could decide whether or not to safespot, run a scan themselves etc.. just an idea..
Now there is an idea I can get behind! They'd need to remove the directional scanner first though.
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To err is human. But it shouldn't be the company motto...
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:34:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Denaris Aschanna
So how about if local was set to delayed mode, but every time you ran a scan it would make your presence known to others in the system to some extent?
Not necessarily make you appear in local, but possibly a message flashing up on your screen along the lines of 'Scan pulse detected'. To my mind if you're sending out active scanning signals it's going to light you up like a christmas tree with the amount of energy required for sending out a scan.
This would have the advantage of a: AFK people not paying attention would miss the message, b: People actually watching what they were doing would have some warning and could decide whether or not to safespot, run a scan themselves etc.. just an idea..
Thats a good idea. Kinda like a trip line with some cans. But it would only work if you have a deployed ship scan probe set to passive scan. Maybe a new scan type for the new probe mechanics?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Revan Starstrider
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:34:00 -
[114]
Reasons to have no local/ talk-activated local:
1. Improves immersion. No more looking in local to see how many enemies are in the system so you can bring more.
2. As an extension to #1, imagine having to actually gauge what type and what amount of ships to bring to a fight. Exciting.
2. The talk-activated local destroys the argument that removing local will kill social activities; those who want to talk may talk and be seen in local, those who dont, will not show up.
3. Ratters dont want local removed. They want to be safe. After reading lots and lots of threads, I still dont know how to make them happy if local is removed. They seem to offer no arguements other than dont remove local.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:41:00 -
[115]
The key to redeveloping local is in fact redeveloping the scanner: If I open my scanner, it's a pretty sure thing that I want to use it... so why not make the scanner more like the overview, and have it update itself periodically rather than manually?
It's a small change that'd make all the difference. It's often put forward that the onboard scanner is more useful to the hunter than the hunted, and if that's a concern then this simple change remedies that. |
Zaknussem
Caldari
Intrum Industria
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Posted - 2009.02.02 13:54:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Zeba
Its an educated guess based on info gleened from dev posts and my own personal knowledge of programming ai to make tactical and strategic descisions in a hobby enviroment...The devs have stated the ai will switch targets under changing scenarios and I can't help but think the programmers paid just that little bit moar attention to the "Pillage Teh Player Mining Op" script.
Unless the AI team has found a way to make Sleepers multitask in combat in a sensible manner (scram the haulers, jam the gankers, kill the haulers, for example) then the Sleepers are only going to be a nuisance instead of a real threat. The ability to switch targets is useless if there's no real AI to call the shots.
What you know of AI programming sadly means nothing in this case unless you're on the CCP AI team. When it comes to CCP and upcoming features in EvE, I have learned that even cautious optimism can lead to disappointment...and new NPC AI is actually one feature I'd like to see CCP pull off in style.
In short, your assumptions aren't doing anyone any favours. I suggest that you stick to the facts, and not try to make your guesswork come off as facts. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.02.02 14:02:00 -
[117]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
I really appreciate how you've managed to imply that Whisper needs to fight his team over what nice to have's we'll push into the project, before release, through some weird game of leverages, cloaks and daggers. Sounds like good fun.
But I can't agree.
An Anarchyyt has already tried to explain what I said in the comment thread (and I have the feeling you've tried to re-interpret that as me having something against removing local, let me correct that right now) and you've just danced around that. Here's my personal opinion (regardless of my feelings on local being removed all together): I'm not very comfortable with my work the past 3 months feeling any less like real EVE space ''just because''. Nor am I willing to devalue this new addition to EVE by making it some sort of test-ground for mechanical changes that can't even be tested there. Hidden space is not 0.0, it's not designed to be like 0.0, stop applying 0.0 to hidden space. If we were to roll this out with delayed local we'd have absolutely 0 information after 3 months as we would lack any control set to reference.
Like most people I play with I do want local gone. But not as an afterthought, nor as some research project. Bring some reasoning to the table. It's not enough to want free candy. Everyone wants free candy. But I can invent ways to get free candy for you where the implementation is so bad that you'd never want to see candy again in your whole life.
but... local is Free Candy. |
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CCP Prism X
Gallente
C C P
CCP
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Posted - 2009.02.02 14:04:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Par'Gellen
stuff
That's using the noggin'!
Greyscale and Abathur actually had an *awesome* design for the on-board scanner. The only way I could describe it in few words is: Submarine combat.
Sadly it was way too much work to expect it to work with our current release schedule as well as it having some technical issues (We really can not have people pressing scan every 5 seconds and receive a huge record set over the wire. That's way to close to a nuke node button.) but --> personally, as in me, only me, not CCP, not all of EVE, just me, I only speak for me <-- found the concept to reek of the awesome old sub games I used to play when I was young and stupid..er.
The only reason I'm telling you this is so you understand that we view removing local as a huge mechanical change, for 0.0. We'd really want something as awesome as that design to replace it there. That has nothing to do with wormhole space lacking local chat as my only reason for that is having local delayed there and nowhere else creating a feeling of instancing and utter solitude in an MMO.
However, I'm not adamant on it in any sense. It's quite possible that I'm being overly defensive regarding my work. I do try and keep my draconian attitude in check so I allow for that possibility.
So post on. With the caveat that absolutely nothing is promised (as it is in real life when we exchange ideas.. but I know it's pretty futile bringing RL sense into forums. ) |
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Mihaill Blackthorn
Gallente
Foundation
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.02.02 14:05:00 -
[119]
Forces an aggressor to seek you out? What crap statement is that? You know darn good and well if there is no local all the groups will do is sit on the gate and gank over and over like it's an npc spawn.
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: bff Jill
I still don't see what the big deal with local is
Keep local, remove the ability to see how many/who are in it. If you speak in it, people know you are there, if you don't, you are invisible.
Create a probe that can be launched and scan an entire system to see how many people are in it from any point in system, with no locational information at all.
That is exactly what we mean when we say we want local 'removed'.
Now for those who are browsing the thread and are thinking onos no local and the pirates will get me. Yes this can happen if you are not paying attention but on the other hand it forces the aggressor to seek you out. Currently a prowling pvper can roam vast sections of space because all he has to do to find a target is see if someone is in local and do a check info then drop a probe. On the other hand a miner or ratter can instantly see the same and log. The amount of instantanious info that both persons get is immense and tbh kinda ruins the fun. However if there is no local then the aggressor has to meticulously scan out each and every system to find a target. This means as long as the person who wants to be left along is running an occasional scan for aggressors then he is safe. On the other hand it helps people looking for kills to for once have a chance to actually sneak up and kill a target. All in all its one of the vanishing few changes in the game mechanics that is completely unbiased and rewards the person who wants to actively and moar importantly smartly play the game be it a ganker or a carebear. Hopefully one day it can be applied to 0.0 but thats as far as I would support it outside of w-space and a battle for another day.
So again Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. for no local in w-space!
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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.02.02 14:07:00 -
[120]
No insta local in W-Hole space please. I plan to spend a lot of time exploring this new content and an insta local would ruin it for me. I want true exploration, I dont want to feel safe, I want to be on the edge of me seat trying to rat, salvage, scan, explore and the whole time not knowing what (or who) is around the next corner.
If there is a regular local and it spikes then i'll just cloak up or leave the W-Hole, I might aswell just go to null or low sec to rat.
Insta local will wreck W-Hole space, lets have an area of Eve that truely gives pilots some adventure and suprises. |
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