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foobarx
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Posted - 2009.02.04 22:00:00 -
[31]
I still get to instapop some of the weaker cruisers and destroyer class's.
So do I with my autos. And 3 1/2 seconds later I get to pop another. |
foobarx
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Posted - 2009.02.04 22:04:00 -
[32]
With bouncer II's you could warp in and drop some sentry drones to give you some drone snipage
Eh, yeah. Three of them. And what will you use to kill the fast frigates? Harsh language? |
Julie Thorne
14th Legion
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Posted - 2009.02.04 23:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: foobarx I still get to instapop some of the weaker cruisers and destroyer class's.
So do I with my autos. And 3 1/2 seconds later I get to pop another.
QFT. I'm pretty sure everyone who uses an AC Vargur used to pilot an arty boat for months and they have a good reason why they stick to ACs. I had a Mach and loved it (almost 50km optimal with fusion, 0.025 rad/s tracking) and I've undocked it hmm... maybe 6 times in the last 10 months? AC ships are much more fun and more effective (as long as you fight Angels/Mercs mostly) than arty boats IMO. |
Marcus Insanus
Minmatar Inventores Lda.
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Posted - 2009.02.05 01:38:00 -
[34]
Everytime I fly a Arty Vargur (This mix sounds wierd), i get the feeling of flying a Raven.
- The Vargur was made to fit 800mm ACs (there's the cap problem everyone talks about), just has the phoon was made to fitt 4x800mm + 4xSiege. It's law. Also, The Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner is a MUST HAVE in any Vargur. - I've tested having a Shield Boost amplifier or a Shield Extender, well, the Extender gives me some buffer, but the boost from the Amplifier is to much to take it out, and since i don't have a perma tank, i keep the amplifier. - 2 x small Pith b-type ? Cap Stable ? Go Fly Caldari. I use a Vepa's Large (Same as Pith A-type) and still can get 5m of cap. a bit more if you fit a cap recharger or a battery. the Target Painter / Web / Tracking Computer in the Mid Slot can be useful, but get real, how many times do you really turn that on? 2 or 3 times in the first ships maybe, after that you forget because you have to wait the cycle to finish.
So with all this, here goes the fitting. Highs - 4 x 800mm T2 (Fusion or Phased with around 40k range) - Tractors and Salvagers at will Mediums: - Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner - Vepa's Modified Large Shield Booster (172.18 HP/s boost) - 2 x Resists at will - 1 x Shield Boost Amplifier II (Trying to get a Complex module to fit here) (the other module is mission depend, in case i need more tank, cap or a web, really depends on my mood) Option 1- Shield Boost Amplifier II (Gives 54 HP/s more) Option 2- Web, helps kill frigs with the med or small drones Option 3- Cap Recharger, gives +2 minutes to the cap Life Lows: - 2x gyros - 2x Tracking Enhancers - Power Diagnostic system II (i can fit a Gyro here, but cmon, the damage it gives does not compare to the bonus of a PDS II) Rigs: - SMC - Ambit Extension Drones: - Mix of small and Medium T2 Drones Mission dependant.
So, every mission we need to pay attention to 4 things: Ammo, Resists, Drones, Dificulty
Don't compare doing a mission with a Golem and doing it with a Vargur.
If you are a Minmatar, you don't like easy sh** flying around, you like the speed, you like to come close on the fire and ear the ammo hitting the hull of the opposite ships, look at your transversal, try to outmanover a cruiser to get the trasversal below 50m/S. And Get all you DPS in that BS and see crunchs of armor being ripped apart at every hit.
It's a hard life, but it's the way we like it.
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Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.02.05 09:16:00 -
[35]
Hmm.. someone said "I'm sure the Vargur pilots that are cheering for the autos have been flying arty setups for a long time before they got into the Vargur. There must be a good reason they use 800mm's."
I tend to agree with that statement. I hadn't thought about it that way before. There must be something about the auto setup to gather it such a devoted crowd.
Well, I've set up the skill training list and it's going to take 115days to train fully into the Vargur with all the necessary skills, an extra couple of days to train the arty setup up too. (T2 guns + Vargur it self)
I'm going to try both for a few days each and decide for myself which I prefer; The easy arty, or the more powerful yet more work autos.
The suto setup will be pretty cheap to swap from, with only Ambit Extension I's on it, the problem starts when I have to replace the T2 ACR rig when I realise that the auto setup works nicer :P But, we'll see.
Thanks for all of your input guys, I appreciate it. You've vastly improved my reality of what to expect when I begin the T2 mission running journey of awesomeness. Until then, I'll keep firing my 1400mm's that poke out of my Faelstrom's hull, and dream of the day that I can salvage and loot all of that floating debris at the same god damn time as killing the ships it came from.
See you in the Agent's Bar o/ Cypher V. |
Punktious
Expert Systems
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Posted - 2009.02.05 11:53:00 -
[36]
I run lvl 4's with a arty vargur, and I'm very happy with it.
[Vargur, 1200ms] Reactor Control Unit II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Valkyrie II x5
-Punk ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it. |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
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Posted - 2009.02.05 12:30:00 -
[37]
vs angels and other close range missions the auto vargur outperforms the arty vargur by far. t2 falloff rigs are also very cheap, and so is barrage.
ohh and to the op: a paladin only really beats the vargur vs enemies thats weak against its damage, it wont come close to the vargur vs angels for instance, but the vargur wont compare to the pala vs sansha ofc. kronos...me don't like it, i still think a domi is better... golem seems like the better overall ship, but i still have to fly it. |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.02.05 17:02:00 -
[38]
The moral of this thread is twofold.
1. Try both an arty and an AC Vargur, stick with the one you enjoy more. 2. When you're done, train a Paladin for blood / sansha missions :) _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
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keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Marcus Insanus Tracking Computer in the Mid Slot can be useful, but get real, how many times do you really turn that on? 2 or 3 times in the first ships maybe, after that you forget because you have to wait the cycle to finish.
Have you ever even used a tracking computer?
Hint: its always on, just like a sensor booster. |
Boma Airaken
The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.02.06 00:48:00 -
[40]
Ok so I guess I will post my setup. Granted I am really lazy and am not really the type that sits and runs missions back to back, and I smoke and have a kid so my AFK factor is enormous.
High: 4x 800mm ACII w/ Barrage L 2x Tractor 1x Salvager
Med: XL Booster II Shield Boost Amp II Cap Recharger II T2 active hardeners, mission specific.
Low: 3x Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension II
Tanks all level 4's quite easily and is cap stable. Autocannons instapop frigs and cruisers out to 92km. I have never had a problem with any level 4 mission at all in this ship.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Titan Industries Technology Team Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.06 07:21:00 -
[41]
The Vargur is quite good, better than any other Minmatar BS, that is for sure. |
Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:41:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 06/02/2009 16:42:41
My Vargur does well in most missions.
Historically I've preferred Artillery. With the QR balance I've found that AC works better for most missions on my Vargur. A significant factor is the 40km tractor range. I don't want to fly after wrecks so there is seldom need for the longer range Arty anyway. The occasional BS that makes it out to far orbit before I get to it (or see it flying away) just takes a little longer to die but it does die |
JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span
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Posted - 2009.02.08 14:57:00 -
[43]
Id say fly it :)
Though with all the amarr/cald i wish eve was lilttle closer to how it was 3yrs ago. No one flying amarr but me (we'll thats what it seemed like) - We are anonymous. We Are legion. |
Sigurd Gudmundson
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Posted - 2009.02.09 12:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Boma Airaken Ok so I guess I will post my setup. Granted I am really lazy and am not really the type that sits and runs missions back to back, and I smoke and have a kid so my AFK factor is enormous.
High: 4x 800mm ACII w/ Barrage L 2x Tractor 1x Salvager
Med: XL Booster II Shield Boost Amp II Cap Recharger II T2 active hardeners, mission specific.
Low: 3x Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension II
Tanks all level 4's quite easily and is cap stable. Autocannons instapop frigs and cruisers out to 92km. I have never had a problem with any level 4 mission at all in this ship.
I've just tried this setup and I am not able to get it cap stable. What's your secret? |
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.02.09 16:32:00 -
[45]
Having taken in a lot of the information people ahve been suggesting, I would say that if you're going to run missions outside of the Minnie space, then use the arty setup. This one to be precise;
------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Vargur, MiRu Arty] Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Shield Boost Amplifier II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router II Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you're shooting Angels all the time, then use this one;
------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Vargur, MiRu Auto] Capacitor Flux Coil II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Cap Recharger II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Projectile Ambit Extension II Projectile Ambit Extension II
Hammerhead II x5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that pretty much sums it up :-)
I prefer the mobility of the AB setups rather than the extra tank you can fit. ----------------------------------------------
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.02.09 18:14:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Pwett on 09/02/2009 18:14:21
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson
I've just tried this setup and I am not able to get it cap stable. What's your secret?
I have perfect cap skills and that setup is 'cap stable' for all of 2 minutes. I have no idea how he goes AFK with that one. |
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:46:00 -
[47]
Well I went with Pwett's AC setup and I have to say it's bloody lovely, despite only having T1 rigs fitted and Marauders lvl 2 trained - I know, I know. I'm working on it!
Have only had the shields fall below full once, on Recon part 1 against Angels. Just seemed to have a bit too much DPS on me |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.02.09 21:26:00 -
[48]
It's really a basic setup, I just played around with the tank a bit because I just love Pithi B-types. |
Boma Airaken
The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:32:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Boma Airaken on 11/02/2009 00:33:45
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson
Originally by: Boma Airaken Ok so I guess I will post my setup. Granted I am really lazy and am not really the type that sits and runs missions back to back, and I smoke and have a kid so my AFK factor is enormous.
High: 4x 800mm ACII w/ Barrage L 2x Tractor 1x Salvager
Med: XL Booster II Shield Boost Amp II Cap Recharger II T2 active hardeners, mission specific.
Low: 3x Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension II
Tanks all level 4's quite easily and is cap stable. Autocannons instapop frigs and cruisers out to 92km. I have never had a problem with any level 4 mission at all in this ship.
I've just tried this setup and I am not able to get it cap stable. What's your secret?
Squire implants, and I don't really use the booster unless I am going AFK. Plenty of time to take a leak, grab a smoke, save the kid from the electrical outlet, etc. Other than the implants and perfect cap skills I don't know what to tell you. I can run the booster pretty much forever, have done it plenty of times, unless of course I am being neuted. I don't know of any setups that permatank vs bloods.
Everyone in my alliance EFT's it and says the cap stability is a lie, but I have been using this setup for months with no cap issues. *shrug*
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Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:05:00 -
[50]
Hehe, fair enough mate.
I too have perfect cap skills and the impants but it won't permarun for me lol. personally I blame my wife, everything's her fault.
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Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.11 17:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Everyone in my alliance EFT's it and says the cap stability is a lie, but I have been using this setup for months with no cap issues. *shrug*
Cap stability means that the setup will permanently run all of the active modules without capping out.
what you are doing is Cap management. Bursting your booster when needed and running it till the cap dries out if you need to ninja afk. Cap management also includes the booster setups because you have to inject cap to run the setup and eventually the cap boosters will run out. being cap stable with cap boosters is ok but you will still cap out eventually.
the only setup i could find that was genuinly cap stable was the faction one i posted :/ everything will perma run and never switch off (unless you are neuted ofc) EFT doesnt account for neuts or nos (unless it can somehow)
in order of approximate stability (imho) FULL Passive Passive (active resists) Pimped dual smalls or undersized + amps full active fast recharge
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Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:11:00 -
[52]
So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:20:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
It seems faster because golem mission running is like mining with missles :) _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
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Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 18:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
It seems faster because golem mission running is like mining with missles :)
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foobarx
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Posted - 2009.02.11 19:03:00 -
[55]
For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Probably depends on what you're fighting. I'd be very surprised if a Golem could keep up with my auto Vargur popping Mordus, Angels, or mercs. Especially in missions with lots of fast cruisers, like Mordus Headhunters.
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Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:54:00 -
[56]
It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time |
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 22:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
You know I think you may be right. There is something extremely satisfying about insta-popping ships over 70+ KM away and then 3 seconds later popping another .
I'll be completely honest, I purchased this character recently as the Caldari way of playing was boring me. Only now do I realise what I have been missing all this time. The Vargur is FUN to fly! 430+m/s with the AB running, Autocannons blazing away, ships blowing up all around me and all the time a smile upon my face.
Although I feel I must stress that I'm not a fan boy, I'm far too old and grumpy for that kind of thing. Ask my wife!
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Chiller
Minmatar 4 Marketeers Rura-Penthe
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:40:00 -
[58]
Like many of the above posters, I also really wanted to fly the Vargur as an Arty boat. I squeezed on the cannons etc and tbh the damage output/tracking/PG made it difficult to love. I did not have good auto cannon skills at the time, and so had to bite the bullet and train them up. I cannot tell you just how impressive the autocannons are with barrage ammo. Frankly it is just something you have to see. The three key ingredients to making the Vargur an AC boat are: autocannon II's (so you can use Barrage ammo), Barrage Ammo (all about falloff), and at least 1 Ambit Ext rig (Falloff). I use 2x800's and 2x650s, but that is a personal choice. If you like to cook and clean your missions on the move, striking targets out past 40 Km just means you have to chase down the wrecks. And inside of 40Km... the AC Vargur is a wrecking machine.
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Traderboz
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Posted - 2009.02.16 01:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
No offense, but that's really ignorant. Flight time affects a mission once per warp in zone, NOT per volley.
It simply delays your damage by a single constant (i.e., whatever the flight time is), which is measured in seconds. This is because you fire your second volley before your first hits, your third before your second hits, etc. Put another way, you aren't waiting on the flight time to fire the next volley. Thus, it's simply a constant delay in your damage that is applied once, not multiple times, and in the big scheme of mission efficiency it's trivial.
Now, I'm not saying Vargur isn't better for some missions, especially after QR where torps struggle a bit more against smaller ships. But it's not the flight time making them worse.
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Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.02.22 19:09:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Traderboz
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
No offense, but that's really ignorant. Flight time affects a mission once per warp in zone, NOT per volley.
It simply delays your damage by a single constant (i.e., whatever the flight time is), which is measured in seconds. This is because you fire your second volley before your first hits, your third before your second hits, etc. Put another way, you aren't waiting on the flight time to fire the next volley. Thus, it's simply a constant delay in your damage that is applied once, not multiple times, and in the big scheme of mission efficiency it's trivial.
Now, I'm not saying Vargur isn't better for some missions, especially after QR where torps struggle a bit more against smaller ships. But it's not the flight time making them worse.
I think what he's trying to say is that each ship you kill, you waste *however many* volleys because they die when a previously launched batch of torps hits, probably AFTER you've already launched another bunch that's destined not to hit.
TBF though, after like, 1 mission, you should really be able to judge if you're going to kill a rat or not with the amount of missiles currently in space on their way to the target, so as you can swap targets before you've actually killed the the first rat.... wow, I think I need to re-take GSCE English :S
Anyway, I've EFTd a Golem, and I can't see how it's a good ship... whatever fit I use it's either really low DPS, or really low range. Both with huge tanks. Not my style, I like to kill stuff before it even gets a chance to hit me :D
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