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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Miss Reyana Aideron
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:45:57 -
[211] - Quote
Really bad bad idea. Please don't do this! |
Esnaelc Sin'led
AdAstra. Beach Club
30
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:46:14 -
[212] - Quote
What if the extraction system was giving SP allocated ONLY in the same category of skill ?
Let's say you have all gunnerie for Lasorz, but you only fly matars (just example, it might sound stupid). You chose to extract all thjose Lazors skills. But once you chose to sell them to another player, he will only be able to allocate those SP in "Gunnery", not Armor, nore Shield, neither Missiles. |
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH Circle-Of-Two
118
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:46:15 -
[213] - Quote
I have 5 accounts active , haven't touched the game for nearly a year ...but i just had to log in after reading this. You must be fukken kidding me ....right ? NO! |
Orions Lord
NeoCom Systems
14
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:46:17 -
[214] - Quote
All above |
strumpel
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:46:52 -
[215] - Quote
no, thank you |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Chapters.
57
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:46:58 -
[216] - Quote
I don't know if this is good or not (I want more iteration around the idea before deciding)..
Could the "unallocated" be more restricted? For example limit unallocated SP to specific groups or skills (groups could work a bit better). So if I extract 500k from Engineering it would create Engineering skillpack and so on.
This would make it impossible to transferring science skills to combat. It also would mean that choices still matter as if you trained useless skills, those would cost less in the market.
Also I would go with function that calculates how much SP is thrown away at different SP amounts.. So you would get always a bit less SP when your SP amount is 30M than 25M. |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1265
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:47:12 -
[217] - Quote
I have removed an ASCII art post.
Quote:13. Spamming is prohibited.
Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words GÇ£firstGÇ¥, GÇ£go back to (insert other game name)GÇ¥ and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of GÇ£thread necromancyGÇ¥ which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
521
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:47:29 -
[218] - Quote
Been discussing with peeps.
ONLY way this seems to be possible sans massive abuse, based on the discussions I've seen is to set a fixed limit on number of SP transactions OR SP values, either SP going in or coming out, per set time frame, similar to remaps.
Not saying I'm a huge fan of the idea... but I can understand some of the thought behind it. I would further draw a hard limit on 100mil/120mil SP+ being unable to gain SP from this.
The Law is a point of View
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Broggo Yimmix
Infinity Engine Sleeping Dragons
5
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:47:53 -
[219] - Quote
Bad idea CCP.
This looks alot like a pay to win scenario. Also it means people can do whatever with their characters and it doesn't change their value. High sec gank till you're as low as you can go then part out the toon > rinse and repeat; Awox to your hearts content then part out the toon and use the funds to start all over. It removes the lasting effects of a players actions and makes truly disposable toons of Value.
I don't mind the consmetic part of the store, but this is an apocalyptically bad decision. It makes monocle gate look positive in comparison. |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12658
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:48:26 -
[220] - Quote
From the company that brought you Sov Wanding, now, pay to win skill system.
Stay tuned next week for the introduction of unicorns...pay to win unicorns! |
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Marsha Mallow
2621
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:48:39 -
[221] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:and last but not least having SP and winning are two different things. Indeed
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12658
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:50:00 -
[222] - Quote
Alt Pilot1 wrote:Incurso wrote:I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours.
I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win.
IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now.
I think because Eve has too much E-Peen. A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly. This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly.
Famous last words.
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Robert Warner
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
127
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:50:14 -
[223] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside.
While many of my compatriots will likely shun any notion of trading skill points, I must say the idea doesn't bother me (and yes I'm a player who has multiple characters over or approaching 200M SP). I don't mind certain ingrained mechanics being changed provided there is a rational reason behind it and that the solution is well conceived and well implemented (take note Fozzie sov).
My main concern is in pricing of the packet itself in Aurum: we are already developing a serious issue with the price of PLEX and without being a doomsayer, the game has lost 25% of its active player base since February of this year (source: Eve-offline.net) - an extraordinary statistic by any reckoning. My primary interest is seeing a recovery in player activity, for the good of both myself and the Developer.
While I'm sure CCP's accountants are eyeing this as a financial opportunity, I would very strongly suggest extreme caution in the introduction of further micro-transactions based on the PLEX/Aurum model at this time. Eve is currently in a very delicate position, following a number of somewhat dubious design changes, now requiring substantial time and investment to repair. If the game world loses critical mass of players, it may 'fail cascade' very quickly.
If such a feature really must be introduced within the next year, careful planning of pricing will be required to ensure no further stress is placed on the transferable game time market.
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Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards
242
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:50:29 -
[224] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:...
Here's a quick scenario: My industry alts, already fully trained, are no longer training. I start training them again. They never leave their station, so a pair of +5's along with Min / Max'ed attributes on a large skill or three means I can pump out 2700 SP per hour in perfect safety. In 8 days, I've already pumped out over 500k SP (518,400). Drain the SP, sell for a profit, repeat.
There's no risk involved. I'm not losing any SP because the characters aren't training any more. They have the necessary skills at the necessary levels and never undock. There's zero risk and I'm not making a single sacrifice. ...
This is the first argument against that resonates for me. You can, with zero risk, have a never-ending stream of 5M SP cyno alts, potentially on a daily basis. Tracking of neutrals relative to who they're scouting for wouldn't be possible.
Additionally, the cost of this "perfect" +5 safe training is lower than offspec training, even beyond 5M SP. (Training speed is affected by more than 20% relative to optimal for an off-spec train).
Maybe, as part of a character transfer, 20% of the transferred character's SP are destroyed, and instead turned into 15% unallocated skillpoints, to let the buyer add some of their own "flavor" to the character?
I also really like the name change idea, but to show former aliases and have the old names be searchable in the same way. A link to the old name should land you on the character's new name, through any chain of renames. |
Alex Villiana
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:50:41 -
[225] - Quote
I think this is a terrible idea that comes dangerously close to Pay2Win (or even just the perception thereof).
The current system with the character bazaar may be acceptable exactly because of its poor discoverability and lack of ease of use. Noobs can be noobs without feeling that they need to buy 50 plex to buy a decent character.
Noobs are already often advised not set farming ISK to PLEX their account as a goal for their first month(s) and to rather enjoy the game as a game (not a second job). Under the propsed system, noobs may be made to feel that they need to farm ISK for both PLEX and SP, which will make for a terrible gameplay experience. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
796
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:50:48 -
[226] - Quote
I said this before and I will say it again. This is as close as it gets to pay to win. FotM and all bad things just enhance this into a super bad idea.
I will survive if this goes through but the backlash of players will be baaaaaaaad.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Kilian Katar
Tenth Company
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:51:31 -
[227] - Quote
Tzu Wu wrote:Ihfrit wrote:as a player returning from my extended break i do every few years .. you just made me want to perma quit. this is an awful idea making this game pay to win. Character Bazaar is already p2w, what the difference here guys? Do tell.
The character bazaar requires you to know something about the game to know what you are looking for, and ultimately as the blog points out means any character you buy can come with a less than favourable background. On top of this it is often used by older eve players buying or selling new boosters, carrier pilots miners etc as opposed to what is primarily a new character or relatively new character proposal by CCP Rise. |
Trixi Laminer
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:51:39 -
[228] - Quote
I don't know if i care that much about the SP This wont affect the game that much that I can see, but maybe im too blind too see it. |
Stalking Mantis
No.Mercy Triumvirate.
875
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:51:40 -
[229] - Quote
You learned nothing from the Jita riots.
You learned nothing from the reasons your servers that used to have 70 to 90 thousand people on them two years ago now have 15 to 20 thousand people on them.
GG CCP.
Amarr Liason Officer Extraordinare
-->Check Out Amarrian Vengeance/Amarr FW History from 2011 to 2014
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=352629&find=unread
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2008
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:51:53 -
[230] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Alt Pilot1 wrote:Incurso wrote:I don't get all the hate EVE already has a pay to win option. Anyone with to much real life money and not enough brains or patience can drop several hundred dollars on a bought toon then a pile of PLEX. You may or may not figure out how to play well but you can go from zero to high skill and high end ships with out ever undocking once and in a few hours.
I assume it doesn't happen much because you have to pay ALOT to win.
IDEA: If this happens can we get some sort of slop bucket to train points we intend to sell? I have no interest in capital ships and I'm nearly max SP on the things I want. I would trade SP for ISK. I just don't want to give up the stuff I have now.
I think because Eve has too much E-Peen. A lot of older players want to be forever above the younger players, and don't want them to catch up that quickly. This new SP transfer system can be really good for Eve Online in the long run. It'll make it more noob friendly. Famous last words. Yeah, how dare the game be more accessible!
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Atezaria
Hole'n'Roll
1
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:51:58 -
[231] - Quote
I will have to say please do not do this CCP:
I understand the need for your firm to create revenue, but this is not the way to go I feel..
I kind of smell a huge potenial for CC scams which in turns will hit CCP's invoice system. and probably new ways to exploit the game for RM-traders, which we do not want..
So please CCP. Look into another way of creating revenue and to attract new ppl to the game :)
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Lena Lazair
Sefrim
550
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:52:46 -
[232] - Quote
Esnaelc Sin'led wrote:What if the extraction system was giving SP allocated ONLY in the same category of skill ?
Let's say you have all gunnerie for Lasorz, but you only fly matars (just example, it might sound stupid). You chose to extract all thjose Lazors skills. But once you chose to sell them to another player, he will only be able to allocate those SP in "Gunnery", not Armor, nore Shield, neither Missiles.
Ooo, I like this too. Split up TSP's by major skill categories, categorized separately on the market. It works to maintain the general commoditization of SP and simplification of bazaar/transfer, but ensures that people aren't just converting old mining/PI alts into supercap pilots and maintains at least some degree of the skill speculation/specialization elements of good bazaar trades. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
162
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:53:35 -
[233] - Quote
CCP has come out with some pretty terrible ideas in their history but this one has got to be the worst.
Suggestion for a rebalance of ECM - Modulated ECM Effects
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grevicious
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:53:51 -
[234] - Quote
Daria3war wrote:Love this idea . CCP thinking about the future of the game. L33T bitter vet get rekt. We need fresh players and new ideas. The old way of doing things is killing the game. +1 Let the tears flow
some people just dont want the game to go backwards is all. adding new players is good, be nicer if they had to put the same time in i did to achieve the skills i have, you are a new toon and there obviously all for PAY TO WIN , get rekt.
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Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
291
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:54:05 -
[235] - Quote
Batten Down the hatches, Theres a 'hitstorm coming right this way . . . .
Personally P2W is bad, HOWEVER . . . if this was implimented in the same way as remaps ( ie you can remove skills once per year, and implant them, say twice) then it might be a better solution if you are really that keen to roll the dice.
@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet
TDSIN Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' for more info, Join today!
Glasgow / Newcastle EVE Meets Organiser
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Gigiarc
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:54:13 -
[236] - Quote
This idea is actually extremely good. Excellent work on CCP's part. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2008
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 16:54:27 -
[237] - Quote
Robert Warner wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:[img]http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/68656/1/skilltrade1_550.jpg[/img] The Character Bazaar has been around for a while, allowing enterprising players to buy and sell characters from others. Lately, we've been exploring some new ideas around improving it, but ultimately realized that our effort was better spent investigating a similar idea: skill trading. This is a pretty big thing, so make sure you read the entire dev blog, and let us know what you think of the ideas inside. While many of my compatriots will likely shun any notion of trading skill points, I must say the idea doesn't bother me (and yes I'm a player who has multiple characters over or approaching 200M SP). I don't mind certain ingrained mechanics being changed provided there is a rational reason behind it and that the solution is well conceived and well implemented (take note Fozzie sov). My main concern is in pricing of the packet itself in Aurum: we are already developing a serious issue with the price of PLEX and without being a doomsayer, the game has lost 25% of its active player base since February of this year (source: Eve-offline.net) - an extraordinary statistic by any reckoning. My primary interest is seeing a recovery in player activity, for the good of both myself and the Developer. While I'm sure CCP's accountants are eyeing this as a financial opportunity, I would very strongly suggest extreme caution in the introduction of further micro-transactions based on the PLEX/Aurum model at this time. Eve is currently in a very delicate position, following a number of somewhat dubious design changes, now requiring substantial time and investment to repair. If the game world loses critical mass of players, it may 'fail cascade' very quickly. If such a feature really must be introduced within the next year, careful planning of pricing will be required to ensure no further stress is placed on the transferable game time market. This is a fair point, but it's sort of looking at it the wrong way.
Right now, to affect a transfer of SP to a person, one has to pay 2 PLEX just to do the transfer. This is in addition to whatever deal the two parties struck.
Adding an aurum cost to skill extractors merely maintains this "tax;" it doesn't add a new source of pressure to PLEX. You can expect quite a bit of the pressure to PLEX applied by the Character Bazaar to be relieved as folks move to this more granular, personalizable system.
Of course, the transfer won't be perfect; it could indeed increase total PLEX pressure, or maybe even reduce it overall. It remains to be seen.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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O'b Haru Sen
EVE University Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:54:40 -
[238] - Quote
Terrible idea. Here are two reason why:
1. For new players this will imply they need to buy SP to be more competitive, and since they don't have ISK, that means buying PLEX or Aurum. Now this generates income for CCP, but I would also expect it to raise the threshold to really play EVE significantly. Monthly subscription fee will not be enough, you will need to spend more money to buy into EVE. So will this really generate more income via SP transfers or scare off new players enough for subscription numbers to fall? The SP gap is probably one of the most significant reasons not to start playing EVE already, I fear this will make it worse.
2. I payed CCP a significant amount of money for making competent specialised alts (hauler, scanner etc). SP transfers significantly devalue those in an instant and make me regret my decision to do so, thus I feel cheated as a customer. I'm not whining, but you sure heard about the importance of customer SAT?
Although I am personally only affected by the 2nd, the 1st point troubles me most. It seems like selling out on EVE's future for short term gain.
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
329
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:55:03 -
[239] - Quote
Buying skill points is something I have to think about, I think its good for bringing up characters.
Just make a limit in the consumption, so say 1 package a year or something, or make it so that you can buy upgrade slots with PLEX and the higher the SP of the char, the more PLEX to invest to up the char with slots for skillupgrades.
Just a question, will char transfers still be possible? I have moved alt spots between multiple accounts every year, its a great way to get your scan alt to a primary slot on a new account (example). Is that still possible?
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Tzu Wu
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
45
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Posted - 2015.10.15 16:55:16 -
[240] - Quote
Broggo Yimmix wrote:Bad idea CCP.
This looks alot like a pay to win scenario. Also it means people can do whatever with their characters and it doesn't change their value. High sec gank till you're as low as you can go then part out the toon > rinse and repeat; Awox to your hearts content then part out the toon and use the funds to start all over. It removes the lasting effects of a players actions and makes truly disposable toons of Value.
I don't mind the consmetic part of the store, but this is an apocalyptically bad decision. It makes monocle gate look positive in comparison.
You can already exchange tags for sec status. All of the stuff you mentioned is already doable via the character bazaar. This,trading of SP, has nothing to do with selling off a character with bad a bad reputation. |
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