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Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:23:30 -
[901] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Ms Michigan wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I guess gankers will just have to come up with more bros and higher DPS fits.
I pity those capitol ship producers who will have to take a price cut when the supply/demand causes Freighter prices to drop. They are the real victims here. Only regular freighter prices and capital ship prices should drop by your logic. Good point. However, I doubt it will be a lot. Maybe 10% is my guess. If it is more, so be it. I don't see a problem with this. Freighters prices are already much higher than they have traditionally been. Cap ship prices should come down imho as carriers, FAX's, and Dreads will see much more action (loss?) with the cap ship changes coming. Overall your point is a good point (not a bad one as you paint it) because the cost of replacement for those cap ships will need to come down to compensate for the losses on the battlefield. As more players move into cap ships also with the Skill Injector changes and as EVE ages this will be good too. Cap ships are their own developing class of ships with infighting now and this will bring some neat cap ship battles which is again, good for the game and EVE and players. More variety is better. More gud fights are better. You should look at the margin on freighters. Their price increase was from minerals. Why should good haulers and other industrialists like myself lose out at all?
Yeah, I thought someone might say that. However, as was mentioned before though. As mineral moving and hisec mining becomes a tad safer, this will directly effect the prices you are referring to as those mineral prices drop. So it is a neutral sum and the point you made will probably be invalidated.
Let me state for the record though, I am not saying you should have a smaller profit margin than what is traditionally been given on freighter/cap ship building. Plus, again, cap ships will probably be dying more with the Cap ship changes so there is room to make profit there.
Just that prices on cap ships like freighters and cap ships will drop probably a tad with these changes may be a valid point. |
HeXxploiT
Little Red X
219
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:24:36 -
[902] - Quote
Got your work cut out for ya with this module alone Fozzie.
This change will really shake things up. Should be very fun. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16272
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:32:09 -
[903] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote: Look at this change this way sir. Instead of the glass half-empty....it is half-full.
The glass is half full for me.
They've made it clear that they don't want my business. That frees up enough money for me to buy The Division in a few weeks. The beta was really fun, like I haven't seen in a shooter since Gears of War.
Quote: Now that EHP has been buffed on freighters and JF's especially, don't you think this will increase the payout on the ganks?
No, because I can actually do basic math.
Slightly increased likelihood of getting the loot with an AG moron in the system does not offset a 50% increase in overhead operating costs.
As such, our target range has shrunk by as much as 80% if we are interested in a profit.
This of course incentivizes people like CODE or possibly the Russians who will gank anything in the freighter class for lulz, because they get their funding elsewhere. If you can't make a profit, might as well cause a scene.
And of course the larger proportion of empty freighters being ganked will be seen as evidence by carebears like you that ganking needs to be nerfed once again. When the root of the problem is and always has been the unreasonable restrictions and punitive mechanics you want placed against people rather than you just learning to play the game correctly.
Quote: It is all balanced.
It's not. If you don't know that you're a moron, and if you're not a moron you're a liar.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7215
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:33:53 -
[904] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Except that isn't balance. It's just straight up making ganking 50% harder. No, it's not...
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They're in highsec because otherwise risk would be nonexistent for miners and haulers. They're in highsec for the same reason miners and haulers are, to reduce how much effort they have to put into playing. James may have started it out as his tantrum against mining barge changes in highsec but most code members are there because it's easy. This is evident from the fact that it's safer and more rewarding to mine in nullsec, yet code don't generally operate there.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I find it hard to believe that hauling is low profit, considering how often people fly through Uedama afk with more than a billion isk in their cargo hold. I can almost guarantee that most of that value was not created through hauling. I'd not haul because it would cost me more to lose a single pilot to slowboating a freighter than I can simply pay someone else to haul, let alone guarding the damn thing. Honestly, I don't know why they do it.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And yet the game's economy was in a much better place, with the relative earning and purchasing power of new players several times higher...
When the game was vastly more dangerous than it is right now.
Safety kills newbie subs. To be fair, income streams have nothing to do with hauling. I made a couple of years worth of PLEX on Saturday alone (yes, actual profit) without undocking and without hauling or having anything hauled. If anything needs to have more risk or reduced reward it's trading. Newbies probably wouldn't have such a problem with the economy though if they didn't lose their ships when they got to a certain size purely through not quite understanding the aggression mechanics. I'll never lose a (non-gank) ship in highsec - that's right, I'm saying it - so I'll never need to worry about such things, newbies will. How's that balanced?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7215
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:38:20 -
[905] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:It affects...
A: Whether or not a camp of sufficient size will exist at all. B: Whether any given target is actually viable.
The bumbling fuckwit may still be on the bottom of the food chain, but the expected cost to him for being incompetent is reduced.
A camp of sufficient size is one single player. It is now, it will be then. All targets are viable, there's no such thing as an ungankable freighter now and there won't be after. At most, gankers will need to add a bit more DPS, which they can do either by adding more F1 monkeys or by taking a second run. Considering during Burn Amarr/Jita, many of the gankers were smashing with huge amounts of overkill and leaving people behind saying "hey I wanted to gank too..." because of the sheer numbers of pilots they had available, I can't imagine they'll have a problem.
Consider it this way, this change will encourage people to recruit more gankers.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:46:54 -
[906] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ms Michigan wrote: Look at this change this way sir. Instead of the glass half-empty....it is half-full.
The glass is half full for me. They've made it clear that they don't want my business. That frees up enough money for me to buy The Division in a few weeks. The beta was really fun, like I haven't seen in a shooter since Gears of War. Quote: Now that EHP has been buffed on freighters and JF's especially, don't you think this will increase the payout on the ganks?
No, because I can actually do basic math. Slightly increased likelihood of getting the loot with an AG moron in the system does not offset a 50% increase in overhead operating costs. As such, our target range has shrunk by as much as 80% if we are interested in a profit. This of course incentivizes people like CODE or possibly the Russians who will gank anything in the freighter class for lulz, because they get their funding elsewhere. If you can't make a profit, might as well cause a scene. And of course the larger proportion of empty freighters being ganked will be seen as evidence by carebears like you that ganking needs to be nerfed once again. When the root of the problem is and always has been the unreasonable restrictions and punitive mechanics you want placed against people rather than you just learning to play the game correctly. Quote: It is all balanced.
It's not. If you don't know that you're a moron, and if you're not a moron you're a liar.
Keep on calling names.
You missed completely (purposefully is my guess) my point about haulers carrying more directly correlating to their increase in EHP.
Also - What is this 50% you keep quoting?!?! You can rage, show the math. Someone else did and it was like 8 more ships at most over the 22 normal worst case. So that is no 50%. And if by 50% you mean you have to get more people to do it and that is your 50% then.... I have no sympathy. Again it would be 8 more pilots or like 35%.
If you want the higher end benefits of an MMORPG, it is always they rule you have to gather more people to do so. For you to complain about this (and I notice your tears and rage did not include anything to my response earlier about you wanting it to be smaller groups yet accusing us of being the care bears) then grow some leadership ballz and make it happen....but I don't think you will do that with your immature attitude you have shown here. 10 year player my butt. How old are you?
Go play that other game you are talking about. You will be back. EVE is the best MMORPG for a reason. This change is nothing in the grand scheme and it is why people have been playing for 8 or 10 years. (Although if you are willing to give up on your 10 years of game time and yet you care so much I highly doubt you really have that or that it was continuous play.) |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3097
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:47:50 -
[907] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:Ms Michigan wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:I guess gankers will just have to come up with more bros and higher DPS fits.
I pity those capitol ship producers who will have to take a price cut when the supply/demand causes Freighter prices to drop. They are the real victims here. Only regular freighter prices and capital ship prices should drop by your logic. Good point. However, I doubt it will be a lot. Maybe 10% is my guess. If it is more, so be it. I don't see a problem with this. Freighters prices are already much higher than they have traditionally been. Cap ship prices should come down imho as carriers, FAX's, and Dreads will see much more action (loss?) with the cap ship changes coming. Overall your point is a good point (not a bad one as you paint it) because the cost of replacement for those cap ships will need to come down to compensate for the losses on the battlefield. As more players move into cap ships also with the Skill Injector changes and as EVE ages this will be good too. Cap ships are their own developing class of ships with infighting now and this will bring some neat cap ship battles which is again, good for the game and EVE and players. More variety is better. More gud fights are better. You should look at the margin on freighters. Their price increase was from minerals. Why should good haulers and other industrialists like myself lose out at all? Yeah, I thought someone might say that. However, as was mentioned before though. As mineral moving and hisec mining becomes a tad safer, this will directly effect the prices you are referring to as those mineral prices drop. So it is a neutral sum and the point you made will probably be invalidated. Let me state for the record though, I am not saying you should have a smaller profit margin than what is traditionally been given on freighter/cap ship building. Plus, again, cap ships will probably be dying more with the Cap ship changes so there is room to make profit there. Just that prices on cap ships like freighters and cap ships will drop probably a tad with these changes may be a valid point.
wow you really have no clue.
Not only will freighter prices drop from lower demand, but if mineral prices also drop, freighter prices will suffer again because their mineral cost is the only thing keeping them up at this point. You just said yourself, they used to be cheaper. You have to bulk build them at a POS to get any decent margin out of them.
And seeing as the people making freighters in hi-sec are not the same people making carriers and dreads in low sec, then no, there wont be room to make profit there, its a very different industry.
There was plenty of ways already to haul and mine very safely and earn isk. Making the game even safer than now chips away at the margins of industrialists and overwhelmingly favours the dumb and lazy.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16272
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:57:42 -
[908] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote: Also - What is this 50% you keep quoting?!?!
Can you just not read? I already know you're innumerate, but are you illiterate as well?
It's been posted by several people throughout the thread, even on the last page for Christ's sake.
Quote: Go play that other game you are talking about. You will be back.
The Division, Massive's new multiplayer TPS/RPG.
And no, I won't.
EVE *was* the best MMORPG for a reason. And that reason was player freedom.
But now, CCP has decided that deliberately playing the game wrong should be enormously buffed, and that player freedom should be chopped off at the knees for the sake of catering to theoretical casual players. (none of whom have stayed in this game despite years of nerfs, I might add)
So now that player freedom isn't something to be lauded, but actively punished, I simply won't participate any longer. They've demonstrated in no uncertain terms that they no longer value me as a player, since they are insistent on nerfing my playstyle out of existence, so they won't have me as a customer either.
It's a simple value judgment.
Quote: Although if you are willing to give up on your 10 years of game time and yet you care so much I highly doubt you really have that or that it was continuous play
Try your ad homs somewhere else, you revolting carebear. It's precisely because I've played so long that it disgusts me what this game has become.
The company whose motto was "harden the **** up" falling over themselves to buff lazy, sloppy play. Anyone who isn't quitting by now doesn't care enough.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
399
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:57:49 -
[909] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:They're in highsec because otherwise risk would be nonexistent for miners and haulers. They're in highsec for the same reason miners and haulers are, to reduce how much effort they have to put into playing. James may have started it out as his tantrum against mining barge changes in highsec but most code members are there because it's easy. This is evident from the fact that it's safer and more rewarding to mine in nullsec, yet code don't generally operate there.
It's easy but very boring to disrupt nullsec operations: you go there and everyone docks because they're too risk averse to undock with a neutral in local, then you stay there and they stay docked. |
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 19:59:05 -
[910] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:
wow you really have no clue.
Not only will freighter prices drop from lower demand, but if mineral prices also drop, freighter prices will suffer again because their mineral cost is the only thing keeping them up at this point. You just said yourself, they used to be cheaper. You have to bulk build them at a POS to get any decent margin out of them.
And seeing as the people making freighters in hi-sec are not the same people making carriers and dreads in low sec, then no, there wont be room to make profit there, its a very different industry.
There was plenty of ways already to haul and mine very safely and earn isk. Making the game even safer than now chips away at the margins of industrialists and overwhelmingly favours the dumb and lazy.
If mineral prices drop your costs to BUILD drop. How is that not proven? Then, and IF it happens, the volume demand for freighters drops (which I think it will about 10+%) prices will fall but your cost to build will have too. So yeah, you will have to bulk build to get profit, I get that. But that is always how freighters were. Look at it this way too. Maybe demand will go up because freighters are safer. As more people start hauling again because they don't worry about gankers! Ever think of that one?
You say it favors the dumb and lazy. I say it favors the players looking to branch out (cheaper ship prices and price of entry) and helps the economy as goods get moved more. Places like Derelik may see goods moved out there as people can move them a tad safer from Jita etc. Demand goes up. You are completely neglecting that possibility.
Plus too...whine more.
Diversify! Make cap ships. Sell your BPOs and build something else. I have had to change my industry tactics before. I didn't cry and whine all over the EVE-O Forums. Adapt. I get what you are saying although I think you are focusing on one tiny segment that MAY drop. Change your play. Move to null. Make even more profit and (heaven forbid) friends there. Build freighters there for more profit margin (because the minerals are amazing and the stations have lower costs) and then import with FRIENDS helping you move them. Quit solo playing at a POS in hi-sec. CCP made all these industry building changes months ago to move people out of hi-sec on purpose so that it WAS hard to make a profit building there.
Again, hi-sec mining and moving have nothing to do with your desire for completely safe and cheap profit margins in hi-sec freighter building. Build them in null or low and quit crying as I just gave you your solution. |
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Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:03:12 -
[911] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
A bunch of selected lines pulled and completely ignored my whole argument. A bunch of whiny stuff about how CCP used to be tough and make people adapt.
Go adapt yourself! If that means going and playing this other MMORPG...Fine. CRY more.
TBH, I am so full on your tears I couldn't want any for another year.
Can I have your stuff!?
haha
I am done responding to you. Off to go laugh with my friends about your diaper training. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16272
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:09:40 -
[912] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote: Go adapt yourself!
I am. I won't pay them to nerf me out of existence anymore.
Like I said before, it's a simple value judgment. Mischaracterize, rant and lie all you like, that doesn't change the truth.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Ylmar
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
44
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:19:21 -
[913] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:So now that player freedom isn't something to be lauded, but actively punished, I simply won't participate any longer. They've demonstrated in no uncertain terms that they no longer value me as a player, since they are insistent on nerfing my playstyle out of existence, so they won't have me as a customer either. Alright, let's finalize this. CCP, if you are reading this: I have just set aside a stack of 12 PLEX, and as soon as you guys show to me that the account holding the above character is deleted and that Kaarous Aldurald and all other characters tied to this account have been irretrievably biomassed, I will use these 12 PLEX to create a brand new account and pay for a year's worth of subscription. I have enough alts, but this is so worth it. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3098
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:27:46 -
[914] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote:
If mineral prices drop your costs to BUILD drop. How is that not proven? Then, and IF it happens, the volume demand for freighters drops (which I think it will about 10+%) prices will fall but your cost to build will have too. So yeah, you will have to bulk build to get profit, I get that. But that is always how freighters were. Look at it this way too. Maybe demand will go up because freighters are safer. As more people start hauling again because they don't worry about gankers! Ever think of that one?
Right, because hauling is so dangerous now that few people do it...oh wait. Hundreds if not thousands of freighters are passing through just one system each day and they are so terrified by the risks that the majority of them are on auto-pilot .
Without more demand (which their wont be), the price of freighters will come down pretty much proportionally with mineral prices. In layman's terms, my costs goes down, but my revenue comes down just as much and my profits don't do ****. With less demand (which their could be), the price of freighters will come down, but my costs stay the same and my profits fall.
Ms Michigan wrote: You say it favors the dumb and lazy. I say it favors the players looking to branch out (cheaper ship prices and price of entry) and helps the economy as goods get moved more. Places like Derelik may see goods moved out there as people can move them a tad safer from Jita etc. Demand goes up. You are completely neglecting that possibility.
If mineral prices drop, miners get paid less, not more. If demand drops, ship builders get paid less, not more.
Who benefits from cheaper ships? oh yeah mission runners...the least attacked player base in the game \o/.
Ms Michigan wrote: Diversify! Make cap ships. Sell your BPOs and build something else. I have had to change my industry tactics before. I didn't cry and whine all over the EVE-O Forums. Adapt. I get what you are saying although I think you are focusing on one tiny segment that MAY drop. Change your play. Move to null. Make even more profit and (heaven forbid) friends there. Build freighters there for more profit margin (because the minerals are amazing and the stations have lower costs) and then import with FRIENDS helping you move them. Quit solo playing at a POS in hi-sec. CCP made all these industry building changes months ago to move people out of hi-sec on purpose so that it WAS hard to make a profit building there.
Again, hi-sec mining and moving have nothing to do with your desire for completely safe and cheap profit margins in hi-sec freighter building. Build them in null or low and quit crying as I just gave you your solution.
Lol, he says knowing nothing about me or the groups i'm with. The irony of saying im the one seeking complete safety and should quit trying to play solo after you said EVE should have solo safe activities. I'm aware i can adapt. We all know it wouldn't be the first time. Ive accepted CCP want to make this change, but that doesn't mean i have to let you spout total BS.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:40:02 -
[915] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Lol, he says knowing nothing about me or the groups i'm with. The irony of saying im the one seeking complete safety and should quit trying to play solo after you said EVE should have solo safe activities. I'm aware i can adapt. We all know it wouldn't be the first time. Ive accepted CCP want to make this change, but that doesn't mean i have to let you spout total BS.
I said solo play referring to newbs. You are obviously not a newb my point!! Plus you never even addressed the fact that I called you out on your lack of proof for how you work in null or low. Instead I referenced your point about working solo at a pos in hi-sec churning out freighters.
As to your point about freighters being in the thousands...great. There are that many people doing it. Who is to say (CCP does) without numbers what is healthy and what is not; you say it like it is a bad thing. Maybe it is low. Where is your data on the backend servers to prove your point.
Again, CCP has said this is a balance between the wolves and prey. Your point about building might be an unintended consequence. Why can't we just talk about the outliers and theory craft instead of everyone here having to scream about how upset they are and how hard CCP is butt-hurting them.
I get it, I used to do the same thing. But that is not what these forums are for. ISD's delete pages of this sort of banter especially when it turns to name calling and has no substance because the DEVs want to get people's thoughts about the changes...not their tears and hearsay.
Ms Mich
P.S. Ylmar - LOL Nice. I will match you and donate 12 plex to the next donation drive is Kaarous and his alts unsub. :) |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16272
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 20:43:58 -
[916] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote: Again, CCP has said this is a balance between the wolves and prey.
And that's exactly the problem here.
That they have completely thrown away the concept of player freedom in highsec.
Quote: Why can't we just talk about the outliers and theory craft
Because you don't get to dictate what other people find noteworthy about the changes made in the thread?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
TRAINSPOTTING
337
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:05:52 -
[917] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ms Michigan wrote: Go adapt yourself!
I am. I won't pay them to nerf me out of existence anymore. Like I said before, it's a simple value judgment. Mischaracterize, rant and lie all you like, that doesn't change the truth.
You heard it guys, he outright refuses to adapt himself. It is his Constitutional right or something to be able to gank the way he's used to! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16272
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:11:34 -
[918] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: You heard it guys, he outright refuses to adapt himself. It is his Constitutional right or something to be able to gank the way he's used to! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Remember a few posts up when I was talking about mischaracterizations and lies?
This guy is an excellent example.
It is not that I refuse to adapt. However, I refuse to be told that I am the only one who should have to adapt. Carebears never have, and CCP seems determined to shut the servers down before that happens.
I'm merely agreeing with them. They've said they don't want my business, and that's fine with me at this point.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3099
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:13:17 -
[919] - Quote
@ Ms Michigan
I never said i work solo, or in low or null. I dont know what you're talking about in that regard. I said, you have to bulk build them from a POS to get any decent margin out of them and that the capital industry is in low/null.
You've mistaken my replies to you as pleas to CCP to not go through with the change. I did that twenty or so pages ago. My replies to you were to debunk your posts and educate you. And of course ask why you think bad haulers should benefit at the expense of good haulers.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
TRAINSPOTTING
337
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:21:37 -
[920] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: You heard it guys, he outright refuses to adapt himself. It is his Constitutional right or something to be able to gank the way he's used to! Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Remember a few posts up when I was talking about mischaracterizations and lies? This guy is an excellent example. It is not that I refuse to adapt. However, I refuse to be told that I am the only one who should have to adapt. Carebears never have, and CCP seems determined to shut the servers down before that happens. I'm merely agreeing with them. They've said they don't want my business, and that's fine with me at this point.
Yes, you refuse to adapt since you're quitting. However, do know that I'm fully supportive of your righteous decision. |
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16272
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:26:39 -
[921] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Yes, you refuse to adapt since you're quitting.
That is adapting to this change.
To not adapt would be to keep on paying CCP to nerf me out of existence.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
357
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:44:47 -
[922] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
It is not that I refuse to adapt. However, I refuse to be told that I am the only one who should have to adapt. Carebears never have, and CCP seems determined to shut the servers down before that happens.
I'm merely agreeing with them. They've said they don't want my business, and that's fine with me at this point.
You do realise that high sec gankers are carebears right...... HS ganks barely cost you thing... after the loot drop and gank/ships to freighter fit maths has been done.. your concorded catalysts are the same as a lvl 4 mission runners missiles.. and your risk is practically zero just like a lvl 4 mission runner.
Stop patting yourself on the back and thinking that cause u gank in high sec your a pvper... your not.. your a carebear.
I see you joined the HS gankers cause you couldn't cut it in low sec or worm hole space against actual pvpers.. lol... your a carebear man.. its alright.. its ok to admit you fail at pvp and need to be spoonfed.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security The OSS
1224
|
Posted - 2016.02.15 21:50:54 -
[923] - Quote
I'll be honest, if you can't see why this is unhealthy for the economy I really don't know what to tell you. |
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1616
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Posted - 2016.02.15 22:00:07 -
[924] - Quote
I have removed some off-topic, troll, and personal attack posts and those quoting them.
Quote: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE The Ditanian Alliance
71
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Posted - 2016.02.15 22:01:45 -
[925] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ms Michigan wrote: Again, CCP has said this is a balance between the wolves and prey.
And that's exactly the problem here. That they have completely thrown away the concept of player freedom in highsec. Quote: Why can't we just talk about the outliers and theory craft
Because you don't get to dictate what other people find noteworthy about the changes made in the thread? [edit: Oh, and because that was all hashed out in the reddit thread about this a few hours after the change was posted, by people who can actually do basic math.
I am taking what you are saying seriously...again, I just don't see it as an issue. For example, years ago (I mean like when I started playing and for years after) hi-sec ganking was just NEVER as big as it became the past few years. I am not using that as my sole basis, just an example to give you something else to consider. Not to mention back then, EVE's economy was very vibrant. There was a huge hi-sec contingent.
I am also not some huge macro-economics major here. I tend to listen and consider (as much as I don't always like them) to people like Querns and the Economic gurus there who seem to be more overall EVE economy driven these days. I have not seen too much from them in here decrying the death of ganking. If I remember, they seemed to say the same I did for other reasons.
I am not saying the argument isn't noteworthy either. I am just saying we have talked it to death.
If you have more numbers from your reddit circle special, then please do post. We would all love some educated stuff then instead of "well this is the death of MY playstyle." hurf durf
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
357
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Posted - 2016.02.15 22:03:14 -
[926] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:I'll be honest, if you can't see why this is unhealthy for the economy I really don't know what to tell you.
More freightors make it to market = more supply to markets. More supply = cheaper ships.
More freightors make to to market = greator profits for corps. If corps are pvp corps that SRP then corp can afford to replace members PvP losses. More corp funds = more content for members = members enjoy eve more and dont unsub.
Sounds horrible.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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GetSirrus
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
104
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Posted - 2016.02.15 22:05:56 -
[927] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:However, I refuse to be told that I am the only one who should have to adapt. Carebears never have, and CCP seems determined to shut the servers down before that happens.
1. reduced yield to procurer and retriever 25% 2. reduced refining effectiveness. This one alone impacts 16 ores skills which now need to be trained to level 5, plus requires the use of hardwaire Beancounter RX-804. (which requires Cybernetics 4, if you did not already have this). 3. arbitrary scale back of ME and PE on BPO to 10 and 20% 4 additional taxes to industry including POS (and list can go on)
Plenty of adaption happens elsewhere, industrialists just don't whinge about it at every opportunity. They have long since HTFU and got on with the game. "One more nerf" - I laugh everything I see some "woe is me" posting.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7215
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Posted - 2016.02.15 22:10:01 -
[928] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:I'll be honest, if you can't see why this is unhealthy for the economy I really don't know what to tell you. It's not unhealthy for the economy. At the very worst prices will drop and a few people will move to something else and the prices will balance out once supply drops enough.
Consider the battleship build prices changes change. This is nowhere close to as big an economic hitting change as that, and the economy survived.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
1039
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Posted - 2016.02.15 22:29:47 -
[929] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Ms Michigan wrote: Again, CCP has said this is a balance between the wolves and prey.
And that's exactly the problem here. That they have completely thrown away the concept of player freedom in highsec. Quote: Why can't we just talk about the outliers and theory craft
Because you don't get to dictate what other people find noteworthy about the changes made in the thread? [edit: Oh, and because that was all hashed out in the reddit thread about this a few hours after the change was posted, by people who can actually do basic math.
Hisec has never been about player freedom. Hisec has always had limits and those who know how to function inside those limits prosper in their activities.
You want freedom, move to lowsec where the consequences are less (no Concord), or move to nullsec where there are no consequnces (no Concord and no hit to sec status) for your ganking activities. The only consequences in those areas come from other players and gate/station guns; as it should be. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
16273
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Posted - 2016.02.15 23:03:31 -
[930] - Quote
Ms Michigan wrote: I am taking what you are saying seriously...again, I just don't see it as an issue.
Of course you don't.
I say this not to be insulting, but I don't view your side as being capable of intellectual honesty. Had CCP done something equally as punitive to say, mission runners, you would be up in arms.
To put it succinctly, I think you are all hypocrites.
Quote: For example, years ago (I mean like when I started playing and for years after) hi-sec ganking was just NEVER as big as it became the past few years.
And you're wrong. Before the insurance nerf, for example, suicide ganking was far, far more prevalent. Anyone who ganked at the time will tell you the same thing.
For crying out loud, you used to be able to gank in fully fit Battleships and turn a profit, something that is impossible today.
Quote: If you have more numbers from your reddit circle special, then please do post.
Why? I already told you where it is, go and find it yourself. You'll benefit far more from perusing it yourself than if I quote one individual section or other.
Horse to water, I swear.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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