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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Chi Quan
Jade Phoenix Deutschland Event-Horizon
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:55:00 -
[91]
has anyone checked if the heretic (tech2 destroyer) is still a vaiable anti 'ceptor platform? with them going 12km+/sec i doubt it, maybe up the gun slots to the original 3. -- Tempus fugit -- |
Almarez
Setenta Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:58:00 -
[92]
Also, Why only HAM bonuses? Can we get heavy missles on there also? Is the rof bonus on the Sac only for HAMS or heavies as well? New outpost-30 bil isk, Items to save up for cap ships-700 mil isk, Going to bed early now that you don't have to work for that and realizing how much poontang you were missing-PRICELESS |
RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:59:00 -
[93]
I have an idea....
Use Neuts on your Curse/Pilgrim. Its still insanely powerful.
Khanid ships are now so unbearably better then the other Amarr ships it will be sad. 4 REAL BONUSES!! For an Amarr ship this will really make the Khanid class boat almost as good as everyone elses.
I thought this thread was a joke when I first saw it, then when I saw that it was real......
I haven't stopped crying tears of joy.
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Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:01:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Sorted but its been in the game for years - forum whining seems to be at a peak and focused on NOS recently. BAM NERF BAT>.. whats next ? Dampners? I bet 50M.
That's not a bet I'd take. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets don't. |
1iskrental
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:02:00 -
[95]
I dont think there is anything wrong with it as is nerfing amarr again pilgrim will suck as will curse y dont mimys ever get stuff took of em like the fastest hac ability to shoot even without cap is a joke tbh what ships will amarr have left to fly vagas fleets of em everywhere there will be all doing 15k ffs
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Vanst Keal
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:02:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Michayel Lyon Seriously guys, what's wrong with tracking? Sig radius penalty?
I have no idea who you are and I probably shouldn't even be posting here, but this is exactly what I started thinking when I read about these changes. Tracking works to keep guns balanced and could be applied to Nos fairly easily. Sig radius penalties work for missiles, drones, and guns equally well, why not Nos too? I'm sure the creative guys could come up with something to explain why heavy Nos doesn't work at 100% efficiency on anything smaller than a battleship. This sort of karmic-balance cap interlinkage whateverthehell change is ten tons of BS in a five ton crate.
tl;dr: OMG CCP, wtf, gtfo |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:05:00 -
[97]
Originally by: RossP Zoyka Khanid ships are now so unbearably better then the other Amarr ships it will be sad. 4 REAL BONUSES!!
Three and a half.
We'll get four if they make the missile bonus apply to standard and heavy missiles, like any other ship, and up a little the CPU on some ships.
If they do that, then I'll shed tears of joy. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Ruah Piskonit
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:06:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Ruah Piskonit on 30/07/2007 17:11:08 Ok, 3 pages in, and I read the whole thing.
Point 1: Nos - NPC, the new mechanics apply? Simple yes or no will do.
Point 2: The Curse/Pilgrim problem: I see a lot of 'adapt or die' stuff on the forums, and really its not productive. The truth is, the Curse/Pilgrim are designed to be nos boats while the Domi, with its drone&hybrid damage bonus was not supposed to be a nos boat. The changes, while welcome, have not differentiated the difference between the Domi and the curse/pilgrim. A very high stacking penalty and/or 'Nos points' like turret or missle points would have been a much more logical step. But this seems like an awfully complicated mechanic to fix something very simple. I would say - make NoS cost more cap to use then it takes (so you are burning cap to burn their cap) but less then a Neut. Something along those lines would have been fine - the problem with NoS was that people were using 4+ of them to fuel their duel rep tanks along with a cap booster. . .thats what needed to go - the duel-rep-perma-tank-till-your-opponent-runs-dry setups. . .Not the use of NoS to kill smaller ships. . .that was a good thing.
Point 3: Fast Ships - Interceptors and Nano-setups will become more prevelent due to these changes. I expect to see the Vegabond become a very common ship very common ship (already is and lots of people flying in intercptor packs. If this is what is wanted then I will adapt to that playstyle and start using my Crusaider - Line ships will fair ok because of Neuts and such as well (if you fix the fitting requirements) but what will happen to the middle range ships, the cruisers and BC ranges? I know I fit my BCs with very little PG and CPU left in the end, and that is with one nos. . .it is simply not an option to drop the nos for a neut. So things are going to get faster. . .ok
Point 4: Khanid - So things are going to get faster, it becomes difficult to stop a MWD/nano setup because its only weakness is its cap. Now we come to Khanid ships that are missle spamming armor tankers - perfectly fine, definatly preferable to shield tanking laser users - which would have been funney. But wait, we are taking an armor tanker and putting a close (and I mean very close) range setup on it? So we have 2 options, forget about the HAMs and whatnot and tank it to high hell. . .or nano it up. Now which do you think is going to happen. So now we have an oversized crow. So why make the bonus' range spacific. . .I see what is happening, but I also think there is a lack of real pvp use for these ships. Added to this is the PG/CPU problem, it needs a little more math to make it work. The damnation in particular is short a lot of PG to make this whole setup work.
All in all, I am glad Nos is being changed, but in the end it does not address the main problem and further divides Cap-dependant from Cap-free in favor of Cap free. And forces a whole race of slow ships to play close range. So, the Minmatization of EvE continues and their popularity will only rise. I was hoping the FOTM would change, but I guess these changes are actually silent buffs. More defense, less offence.
Oh, and did anyone see the "(and hopefully torpedos eventually)" comment? hint hint. . . ----
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Mysa
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:08:00 -
[99]
i EXPECT a pg rise on the dominix now if this nos cut goes down!!! The old vamp-domi just hit the wall and died.....
AND stop giving amarr any at all good changes, they are all slaves and should stay that way!(so tired of the damn roleplaying CVA/amarr fkrs..)
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:17:00 -
[100]
Fe suggestions/changes, i would like to see
Yeah, for the Khandid changes, Let them have a bonus to either missile, or you should really make it a double bonus. It would be like giving the Vaga a bonus for Arty only, it just restricts a set-ups already restricted by fittings/hardpoints, ect. Give them their normal, sized based bonuses, and let them go. Launcher total will keep them from replacing Caldari missile boats. Now, just need to give the poor Ferox that extra turret slot.
NOS change, probably really won;t matter. People will move on to Neuts, and cap will get drained even faster than currently. But just a suggestion, the ships that have a bonus to NOS, change their bonus to Energy neutralized, or less cap for Neuts. Leaving the bonus to NOS, makes them more chance based than the Rook.
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:19:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Mysa i EXPECT a pg rise on the dominix now if this nos cut goes down!!! The old vamp-domi just hit the wall and died.....
AND stop giving amarr any at all good changes, they are all slaves and should stay that way!(so tired of the damn roleplaying CVA/amarr fkrs..)
Keep expeciting... You wont get anything. The Vamp Domi was overpowered as many have reluctatly admitted. It needed to be nerferd. Now there will be neut domis out there.
Amarr need a boost. Dont be a troll.
As for Domi power grid ... Just fit a rack of Electrons on it. They will fit .. I have done it.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:21:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Mack Dorgeans Doesn't anyone use nos to maintain cap, not just drain it? Certainly in PvE, it's nice to have a module that helps maintain your cap without blowing a medium slot on an injector. You don't get as much of a boost, but it does give a little extra and make spare high slots useful on some ships that would otherwise have nothing viable to put there.
With this change, does the nos stop running when it detects the target has less cap than the attacker? If not, does it just keep cycling, and you never really know if it's having any effect?
Well, that's the intention. If your cap is less than your opponents, you can suck his cap to sustain yours. But if his cap is lower than yours, you get nothing.
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Crash Sagramo
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:23:00 -
[103]
1. Damnation ghange is bad. It's imposible to fit now. 2. Nos... it will be destruction of curse/pilgrim 1 or 2 activation of neutralizer and you have no capacitor. I dont' understand why not leave it as it is. The argument - it is affect to strong... there is no ship without it in fits. Both animies have the same opportunity to use them. As to the fight ceptor vs BS... ceptor is a small ship, no ,metter BS has nosf fitted or no. Amar recons use nosf as main weapon, if nos will be nurfed like this - they'll be useless, 2 activation of mnd & 2 neutralizzers will darin it's capacitor till 0. Everybody who say that it's ok don't fly on this ships enough.
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General StarScream
Gallente Enheduanni
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:25:00 -
[104]
thanks for wasting 6 monhts of traning devs
tottal retared **** nerf.
i will not spend 6 monhts to skill up to other stuff, i will just stop playing.
how can we players, skill something, it might be nerfed anytime
the nos is not broken, its just some players whom dont want to fit cap boosters cuse it messes up with there sheild thank and pg
so the wine, tottal bs **** changes, atlest make it so when the cap on the ships are 50% /50% the nos acts as a nut, so it only drains cap and do not transfer it.
but making the nos useless is to mutch.
what about the talsiman implants, they gona be useless now as well.
so now the most powerfull races in eve will be those whom dont use cap to shot, like caldri and Min.
tottal ****, i have trained gallante, and are now useless for 2 years, the domi sucks, cuse it cant fit a full rack of guns witch dont hit **** anyway,
while the caldri is so powerfull its sick, you cant win vs a caldri ship its just to powerfull
they dont need cap to fire missils, there missiles do max dam everytime, and they can sheild tank wich uses alot less Pg and have alot more improvent mods over armor tanking,
great ide devs i wonder what your thinking, if you gona nerf something nerf caldri, they way to strong
bs ****
thees changes wont work well, the nos is a good wepon, no need to nerf it, most people just stay out of range.
the nos was the only effective wepon vs caldri min and amarr ships for the domi atlest, and is now useless,
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Mysa
Mortis Angelus The Church.
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:25:00 -
[105]
Originally by: KolwrathThe Vamp Domi was overpowered as many have reluctatly admitted. It needed to be nerferd. Now there will be neut domis out there.
Amarr need a boost. Dont be a troll.
As for Domi power grid ... Just fit a rack of Electrons on it. They will fit .. I have done it.[/quote
Ok neut domis work already tried it not that fun though, using cap boosters cuts med slots.
Amarr didnt get a boost, they are planned to become kamikaze_closerange_slow_turning_easy_hits now, neuts on curse and pilgrim?? usch..
Electrons?.. i want neutrons + nos-domi tank(now thats overpowered)
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SITH LORDVADER
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:27:00 -
[106]
Well what a shock Gratz all them that are amarr and fly hacs no need to bother now as they will all suck big time.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:27:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Mysa i EXPECT a pg rise on the dominix now if this nos cut goes down!!! The old vamp-domi just hit the wall and died.....
AND stop giving amarr any at all good changes, they are all slaves and should stay that way!(so tired of the damn roleplaying CVA/amarr fkrs..)
Keep expeciting... You wont get anything. The Vamp Domi was overpowered as many have reluctatly admitted. It needed to be nerferd. Now there will be neut domis out there.
Amarr need a boost. Dont be a troll.
As for Domi power grid ... Just fit a rack of Electrons on it. They will fit .. I have done it.
Actually, wonding if you can fit 4 Neuts, and 2 NOS. put the 4 Neuts on your enemy, and use NOS on your own Logistic drones to keep you cap up. Can pull them in and relaunch the for free recharge, then switch to combat Drones when enemy is drained dry.
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:40:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Mysa
Electrons?.. i want neutrons + nos-domi tank(now thats overpowered)
Yeah no doubt :)
People seem to forget that the Domi is a Tier 1 BS. Its not meant for the big weapons like neutrons. It is not supposed to have a huge PG. You cant fit a rack of tachyons on a Geddon, no full rack of torps on a raven (i dont think ... i dont fly caldari) ... so why should you be able to fit a rack of Neturons on a Dominix?
(I dont think you can even fit a full rack of neutrons on a mega for f-sake ... not with any sort of tank .. or some pg mods ... and maxed skills, but its been a while since i have flown a mega so i could be wrong)
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zoumau
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:43:00 -
[109]
So Amarr get nerfed again.. great.. damnation with less cpu than sacriledge and shortrange heavy assault missiles.. Vengeance.. no more damage bonus, which was added last patch. And since when do missile using damnations need better cap recharge. Not like you are using energy like with a beam setup.
Hmm maybe rev 2.3 the other amarr ships can get nerfed as well and changed to armor tanking missile ships.. ravens with 8 low slots.
Nos changes... lmao.. this gonna help the need for speed? more calculations needed for every action. ISO just checking if the target has cap, now it has to compare two ships cap to do something.
Think it's time some people stop inventing nifty stuff and focus on need for speed.. And if this means, drop the idiotic devs that invent crap like missile using amarr ships and hire some programmers, pls don't wait too long.
Or is this the second chance for heavy assault launchers? Missile users never liked them, let's see if we can turn beam users into short range crappy missile nobs.
Been a while since we have seen a good patch. Hope this never makes tranquilety.. oh wait, it will, i forget, sisi is not good enough for stress tests.
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Mari Onette
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:44:00 -
[110]
Aside from destroying my vengeance, these changes seem good. I've been playing with the malediction lately, and the adjustments to it should be very useful.
------ I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth |
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:44:00 -
[111]
Originally by: 1iskrental I dont think there is anything wrong with it as is nerfing amarr again pilgrim will suck as will curse y dont mimys ever get stuff took of em like the fastest hac ability to shoot even without cap is a joke tbh what ships will amarr have left to fly vagas fleets of em everywhere there will be all doing 15k ffs
Do you and everyone else like you know of the concept of grammar?
Seriously, learn to type properly, then get back to us.
50m Sig Contest! |
Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:46:00 -
[112]
Currently, the Pilgrim gets the Role bonus of:
Quote:200-unit reduction in liquid ozone consumption for cynosural field generation and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
I would recommend changing this (who uses a force recon for cyno's anyways Rolling Eyes).... to:
Quote:75% reduction in capacitor use of Energy Emission modules and 50% reduction in cynosural field duration.
The "main" weapon system of the Pilgrim and the Curse is neutralizing the enemies capacitor, while the drones / gang do damage. Without the ability to drain the enemies capacitor while maintaining your own makes these ships more vulnerable than any other recon.
How about we make Stasis Webifiers based upon these changes as well? Ex: A webber only lowers the speed of your opponent to match your own?
Or, we can make Sensor Dampeners: Decreases the target's range / sensor strength up to your own.
etc...
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
General StarScream
Gallente Enheduanni
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:49:00 -
[113]
arrrg well i guees it aint that bad, thinking about it more, its a good change, i cant edit my post,
so i think i was abit hasty in my omg omg omg eve is skrewed for me now ;)
it dont look so bad, even tho the nos should maybe have lower pg now, and lower cpu to fit, as it aint so powerfull anymore, like maybe 1k pg to fit insted of 2k and so on half the pg on em, so they can be used as back up and such
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Cailais
Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:50:00 -
[114]
Oh brilliant, just ******g brilliant. So with only a couple of decent ships (curse / pilgrim) available to the amarr pilot you decide to go stick it to them?
What is this? "Nerf Amarr Online"??? Best I switch back to training minmatar then...
C.
- sig designer - eve mail |
1iskrental
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:51:00 -
[115]
Do you and everyone else like you know of the concept of grammar?
Seriously, learn to type properly, then get back to us.
Hmmm
numpty springs to mind
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Sebastien LeReparteur
Minmatar Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:52:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Sebastien LeReparteur on 30/07/2007 17:52:41 Nice Amarr have decided to nerf their setup even more VS minmatar!!!
Yeah we can now kite them even more since their CC missiles are useless on moving bricks!!!
I sense a disturbance in the force, Oh wait it is my bandwidth going higher since my Amarr friend just quit...
So with that NOS nerf any ship will be able to solo LVL 4 except the fricking Raven? -----------
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Kolwrath
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:52:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
Originally by: 1iskrental I dont think there is anything wrong with it as is nerfing amarr again pilgrim will suck as will curse y dont mimys ever get stuff took of em like the fastest hac ability to shoot even without cap is a joke tbh what ships will amarr have left to fly vagas fleets of em everywhere there will be all doing 15k ffs
Do you and everyone else like you know of the concept of grammar?
Seriously, learn to type properly, then get back to us.
Lol I was thinking the same thing. Yeesh
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Logan Fyreite
Nubs. D-L
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:53:00 -
[118]
Seems a lot like the changes are going to focus the Khanid ships to one range role, but this is in fact not unprecedented. When Matari ships have bonus to falloff it would seem to indicate that they should fit Autocannons, and when they have bonuses to Optimal that they should fit Arties. Huge generalization there but for the most part it holds true, other than those breaking the mold setups that user arties on a ac setup or the reverse. Focusing on the closer ranged missile group is a change since there are no other ships in the game that do that. Oh - no you might have to skill up a new area, instead of just guns, drones, and armor. Seems like a good thing, at least in some small way, give you a bigger cross section of skills to choose from so amarr are not quite as one trick as everyone was complaining that they were.
NOS/Neuts now seem to have changed roles, but fitting requirements definately need to be looked at! Nos/Neuts are going to be much more management heavy weapons unlike the lock target -> win that they are now. Interceptors get a slight ninja bonus since NOS will not be able to 1 hit them to zero cap but neuts still will. Besides, even before the changes a solo BS is in trouble if a single longer ranged (read crow) inty engages it outside of web range. If you have NOS fitted then you can live but if not, you better hope the pilot screws up or that your drones get him before he kills them, good luck there. Pilgrim/Curse pilots are not going to be as powerful Solo anymore but it's not like they are useless all of a sudden. Neuts are still going to be very effective, and it's not like drones + sensor damps do not still eqaul win. Just means their solo appeal with diminish some for a while until people figure out new ways to own in them, aka cap boosters and neuts or some setup like that.
Overall the changes are about a 5.5/10, not as OMG world is ending as some are making them out to be and not that great either. How many responders are just jumping at this because it's a change and how many have actually gone on the test server and tried a few setups. I tried a few domi setups and came up with a few that were not bad, but I don't have the skills to test out the Curse/Pilgrim or any of the Khanid ships for that matter.
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BubbaZanetti
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:53:00 -
[119]
Killing NOS usefulness when our only two worthwhile ships have NOS bonuses, and then adding missiles as a focus, when those two useful ships are drone ships, and all of our other stuff is gunnery based, excellent idea. Thanks a pantload.
Even when Amarr get loving, they get screwed. Awesome.
Oh, well. I guess all these gunnery skill points will be useful in Minmatar ships. If you could let me know about six months in advance before you decide to make speed irrelevent in combat, so I could switch out of Minmatar and into Gallente, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
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Yuandin
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Posted - 2007.07.30 17:54:00 -
[120]
CCP introduced heavy assault missiles not long ago, and as it turns out, nobody wants them... prices on the market prove that point.
So, now, Amarr pilots get this short range bs rammed down their throats
with A SHORT RANGE ONLY BONUS - that no other ships in the whole game have to put up with!
This is garbage! like an earlier poster said, make the CPU fit tight, so its not easy to fit long range, but don't screw Amarr pilots AGAIN with a hokey bonus!
The old -10% cap use "bonus" for lasers was always just a device to prevent other races from equiping lasers. In 2003, the phony bonus didn't matter cause there were no stacking nerfs yet, and you could produce an insane alphastrike capability with Amarr ships. But instead of just introducing stack nerfing right then, you first nerfed Amarr directly in several ways, and later on introduced stack nerfing, ending up with an over nerf, that by the looks of this is never going to be evened up...
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