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Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:59:00 - [1] The Caldari need some decent turret ships. The hybrid range bonus is a decent flavor difference from gallente ships but the Ferox and Moa have classically been underpowered compared to Thorax / Brutix. I think that the 5th turret added to the Moa / Eagle has been a big recent improvement and I believe that the Ferox could also be improved as well by giving it 7 turrets (like the Brutix). The 5 turret/5 missile hardpoint layout means that the Ferox does not benefit as much from mag stabs and I have not been able to find any role in which this ship shines. With 7 turrets I think some decent railboat roles could open up and I don't think this would result in an overpowered battlecruise. Does anyone have other thoughts on how this underutilized battlecruiser could be improved? - Helo
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:09:00 - [2] 7th turret + more fitting to actually squese it in could do the trick. Even now Ferox is extremely PG-deficient. --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again!
arbiter reformed Minmatar Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:10:00 - [3] lazor bonus tbh. lazor ferox is win
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:23:00 - [4] All the Tier 1 BC's could use a little buffing to make them more viable in comparison to Tier 2 BC's, however not in the same role obviously. Looking at their bonuses: Prophecy: cap and tank Harbinger: cap and damage Cyclone: damage and tank Hurricane: damage and damage Ferox: optimal and tank Drake: damage and tank Brutix: damage and tank Myrmidon: damage and tank and quoting myself from a previous thread: Quote: cap and optimal bonuses being (at least intended) equivalent to damage, there is a clear mismatch between the roles of amarr and minmatar BC's with caldari and gallente ones. Where the previous two are the tankier one and the gankier one, the latter are both the same but with different weapon systems. Due to the lower amount of slots on Tier 1 BC's aswell as lower base hp, they simply end up being outperformed in all ways by Tier 2. It would seem that Brutix needs the repper bonus changed to a damage equivalent one (10% falloff seems most reasonable, direct damage would make it too good). And similarly Ferox would either have to go the tank or the damage way. Personally I would keep the hybrid orientation and change its resistance bonus to a hybrid damage bonus instead. Then it would justify its existence as a railboat (or blasters with Null for that minority [you know who you are]). This also makes more sense because we all know the Drake is good at tanking but does not do that great damage. ----------------------
arbiter reformed Minmatar Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:26:00 - [5] why put null in your blassters for 10 km ish range when lazors go 20km with scorch.. lazor ferox srsly
Gneeznow North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:49:00 - [6] ferox is badass as a blaster boat, 500 dps and nobody ever seems to see it coming until its too late, laser ferox also works wonders, 25km with scorch it owns pretty hard, hell even with 425 II autocannons and falloff rigs it kicks ass, ferox is a great turret ship
Knawt Ongrid	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:50:00 - [7] Edited by: Knawt Ongrid on 25/02/2009 14:52:17 Originally by: Jin Entres All the Tier 1 BC's could use a little buffing to make them more viable in comparison to Tier 2 BC's, however not in the same role obviously. Looking at their bonuses: Prophecy: cap and tank Harbinger: cap and damage Cyclone: damage and tank Hurricane: damage and damage Ferox: optimal and tank Drake: damage and tank Brutix: damage and tank Myrmidon: damage and tank and quoting myself from a previous thread: Quote: cap and optimal bonuses being (at least intended) equivalent to damage, there is a clear mismatch between the roles of amarr and minmatar BC's with caldari and gallente ones. Where the previous two are the tankier one and the gankier one, the latter are both the same but with different weapon systems. Due to the lower amount of slots on Tier 1 BC's aswell as lower base hp, they simply end up being outperformed in all ways by Tier 2. It would seem that Brutix needs the repper bonus changed to a damage equivalent one (10% falloff seems most reasonable, direct damage would make it too good). And similarly Ferox would either have to go the tank or the damage way. Personally I would keep the hybrid orientation and change its resistance bonus to a hybrid damage bonus instead. Then it would justify its existence as a railboat (or blasters with Null for that minority [you know who you are]). This also makes more sense because we all know the Drake is good at tanking but does not do that great damage. This partly. Only I would keep the Ferrox the same. Really, having flown them all, all tier one BC are not great ships, and they each need a tank bonus to remain consistent. Buff the Ferrox and you'd have to adjust all the other tier one BC. The real solution to the BC tiers and imbalance is to change the Drake and Myrmidon. People understand the role difference with the Amarr and Minmatar BCs. Change the Myrmidon and Drake for more gank. Give the myrm a 5% damage or 7.5% falloff bonus to replace the armor repper bonus, and give the Drake a 5% rof bonus to replace the shield resistance bonus. Both these ships right now overstep on and outdo the role of their tier one because they get the same tanking bonus. Take away their tanking bonused and they become gank BC like their Amarr and Minmatar counterparts. For missioning, taking away the tanking bonuses for Myrm and Drake would correct the imbalance presently where the Drake and to a lesser extent the Myrm allow Caldari and Gallente to gain entry into level 4s at lower skill levels than Amarr and Minmatar. Also, it would end the Drake whinage over damage. Both could still be setup with passive shield tanks it would however not be so easy to sport a level 4 tank while actually making them faster at level 3s. For pvp it would bring these two ships forward to the gank role with buffer tanks like the Harbinger and Cyclone.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:55:00 - [8] Both ferox and moa need more pg to be able to fit things up. Even the eagle lacks pg :( The slot lay outs and bonuses are okay ,but when you want to fit these ships up for their intended role you will see it is impossible due to lack of powergrid , and if you fit fitting modules these ships will do less than acceptable dps. So eighter give them + bonus for dmg(5%/lvl) or more powergrid. I see no reason why these ships should have much less pg than the other (especially gallente) ones as these are gunboats too ,but instead of blasters these need rails, and rails need even more pg/cpu than blasters. Oh and dont come with that the caldari ships dont need mwd,they need mwd as much as other factions ships.
Kazang Gallente Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:03:00 - [9] The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Kazang
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:56:00 - [10] Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? ----------------------
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? Possibly no ,he is just those idiots who thinks they know the truth,but cant proove anything.
Impolite Andevil The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? Simple! Full passive shield tank with lasers in the highs! An be sure NOT to fit a cap booster. You might run out of charges, and then where would you be?
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:43:00 - [13] Thanks for your input so far! Here are some of my thoughts. "Laser Ferox" = fail IMO "extra PG for Ferox, and also Moa, Eagle" - Sure PG would help these ships but I want the turret hardpoints first. From what I understand it takes Advanced Weapons Upgrades V, an implant and a rig to fit the Eagle without any fitting mods. I'd take this as an argument that the ship needs a little PG but CCP may differ with me on that. However... what ship in Eve doesn't need a little more PG? "Ferox is already better than Brutix especially with some secret fit" - I am sure that there must be some successful Ferox fits, especially if you knew exactly what fight you were fitting ffor. However, this is not really how Eve works. What I think the Ferox needs is to fulfill some specific role reasonably well, "disposable sniper" for example. However currently I would probably be better off in a Moa for this role. If the Ferox had 7 turrets I would have some reason to choose it over the Moa. "Blaster Ferox" - I've looked at this and it has some good DPS... but much less than the equivalent fit on the Brutix. Brutix has two more turrets and a 25% hybrid damage bonus so can fit much more gank than Ferox. A Blaster Ferox with 7 turrets would be more able to compete. Now I don't know what difference the range bonus has here... possibly it is a good advantage but it doesn't seem so to me when we're talking about an optimal difference between the ships of a few km... while for DPS the difference is in hundreds. Keep the suggestions coming! I really like the look of the Ferox and want to be able to use them. - Helo
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:45:00 - [14] Edited by: Stalina on 25/02/2009 20:47:23 Originally by: Naomi Knight Oh and dont come with that the caldari ships dont need mwd,they need mwd as much as other factions ships. Like the nighthawk needs HAM's and MWD? Right? [Ferox, blasterox] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hobgoblin II x5 Might switch warp disrupt for scrambler these days and web for invul. Oh right powergrid: Ferox has 1343 PG for 6 turrets, brutix has 1437 pg for 7 turrets, wahwahwah moar powergrid please. _________________________________
Dax Ee'nnach Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Heloise ChateauBriande Keep the suggestions coming! I really like the look of the Ferox and want to be able to use them. - Helo /signed
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:25:00 - [16] Ferox is fine tbh. 250mm T2 rails snipeing out to 130km. Park it 100km away from your BS blob and plink away at small fry swarming friendly battleships. 200mm T2 rails with a modest buffer tank and some usefull EWAR. Can even squeak in a gang mod. Who primaries a ferox early? The problem in most players eyes is the ferox doesn't do OMGWTFBBQ damage.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:41:00 - [17] Rails = weakest DPS weapon turret Caldari = only race without a turret damage bonus ship Yep, there is a great combination.... range (while useful) isn't a sufficient replacement for decent DPS, even in QR post nano.... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Megan Maynard on 25/02/2009 21:51:10 When did it break???? And their "power" is their ability to hit at insane distances and maintain a great tank because they don't need tracking computers.............. Nano it, put a buffer in, damage mods and rails and have fun plinking out at 100 km. The things I would do if the minmatar had a range bonus like the caldari do............... Stop, hammer time.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:56:00 - [19] Originally by: arbiter reformed lazor bonus tbh. lazor ferox is win Convert all caldari rail ships to sansha/marauder style ships! with optimal and resists rather than damage and tracking laser and shield tanks ftw!
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 25/02/2009 21:51:10 When did it break???? And their "power" is their ability to hit at insane distances and maintain a great tank because they don't need tracking computers.............. Nano it, put a buffer in, damage mods and rails and have fun plinking out at 100 km. The things I would do if the minmatar had a range bonus like the caldari do............... You should stop posting. nano it?? omg... dont need tracking comps??? then its range wont be better than any other bc and its dmg will be still low. Actually the brutix is a better sniper. And pls tell me how do you fit tank +250mm rails?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 25/02/2009 22:19:34 Originally by: Stalina <PWNage Ferox> It can actually become even better swapping an Extender for an Invulnerability Field and a Nos instead of the launcher. If you want to discuss useless Tier1 BCs start with the Prophecy, it has nothing going for it except above average tank and a beak. At least the others have decent options available to them Bottom line, the old horses have largely been supplanted by the younger stallions due to better performance. Tier 1 is only really mandated when you need an even cheaper ship for those "this is going to end badly" fights .. you know .. the fun ones
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Stalina Like the nighthawk needs HAM's and MWD? Right? [Ferox, blasterox] oh yeah brutix fit .... If i would want to use blasters i would use the brutix, is there any reason to use ferox over a brutix in close range?? Brutix --> close range Ferox ---> long range got it?
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:27:00 - [23] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Ferox is fine tbh. 250mm T2 rails snipeing out to 130km. Park it 100km away from your BS blob and plink away at small fry swarming friendly battleships. 200mm T2 rails with a modest buffer tank and some usefull EWAR. Can even squeak in a gang mod. Who primaries a ferox early? The problem in most players eyes is the ferox doesn't do OMGWTFBBQ damage. Oh i cannot decide which one to use the ferox with 126km opt +170dps or the brutix with 84km opt +263 dps +25m3 more drone . It is so hard to choose....
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:29:00 - [24] Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/02/2009 22:30:48 Where the ferox can shoot at 80km with faction instead of t2 ammo, resulting in 4 times better tracking. I have this feeling someone here thinks a ferox has 5 turret hardpoints, it has 6. Edit: Oh you allready realised: Quote: edited because my EFT had 5/5 for turrets/launchers... now I see Ferox has 6 turrets. I want 7 though darnit!! While EFT is a great tool, and can also be used to compare ship balance on certain points, you really can't be taken serious if you didnt even check the ship in game. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Furb Killer Where the ferox can shoot at 80km with faction instead of t2 ammo, resulting in 4 times better tracking. I have this feeling someone here thinks a ferox has 5 turret hardpoints, it has 6. Sure it can for 140dps and tracking is still low for hitting most ceptors.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:35:00 - [26] I dont know which fit you uses, i can get 184 dps at 76+15 (i am sure you can get more, that was just a random fit i had with ammo for that range). Now we make a nice graph, and we assume the ferox isnt moving, and an interceptor (i took a crow) is at 50% of its max transversal speed (which is pretty reasonable imo). Then you still do over 80 dps against it. Now when we switch on that same fitting to spike ammo (so equal tracking to your brutix), we do 0 dps to the crow. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:37:00 - [27] the ferox is fine. its made to be a support sniper and its great in this role. 180 dps at 151 KM. --------------------------------------------- Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:37:00 - [28] Edit: Oh you allready realised: Quote: edited because my EFT had 5/5 for turrets/launchers... now I see Ferox has 6 turrets. I want 7 though darnit!! While EFT is a great tool, and can also be used to compare ship balance on certain points, you really can't be taken serious if you didnt even check the ship in game. So sue me Furb. It still needs a 7th turret. - Helo
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:40:00 - [29] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 25/02/2009 22:40:45 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw the ferox is fine. its made to be a support sniper and its great in this role. 180 dps at 151 KM. Lies. or fail fit without an mwd.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:51:00 - [30] Edited by: Kuzya Morozov on 25/02/2009 22:51:18 Quote: Give the myrm a 5% damage or 7.5% falloff bonus to replace the armor repper bonus

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