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Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.02.25 13:59:00 - [1] The Caldari need some decent turret ships. The hybrid range bonus is a decent flavor difference from gallente ships but the Ferox and Moa have classically been underpowered compared to Thorax / Brutix. I think that the 5th turret added to the Moa / Eagle has been a big recent improvement and I believe that the Ferox could also be improved as well by giving it 7 turrets (like the Brutix). The 5 turret/5 missile hardpoint layout means that the Ferox does not benefit as much from mag stabs and I have not been able to find any role in which this ship shines. With 7 turrets I think some decent railboat roles could open up and I don't think this would result in an overpowered battlecruise. Does anyone have other thoughts on how this underutilized battlecruiser could be improved? - Helo
Saietor Blackgreen The First Foundation	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:09:00 - [2] 7th turret + more fitting to actually squese it in could do the trick. Even now Ferox is extremely PG-deficient. --- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again!
arbiter reformed Minmatar Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:10:00 - [3] lazor bonus tbh. lazor ferox is win
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:23:00 - [4] All the Tier 1 BC's could use a little buffing to make them more viable in comparison to Tier 2 BC's, however not in the same role obviously. Looking at their bonuses: Prophecy: cap and tank Harbinger: cap and damage Cyclone: damage and tank Hurricane: damage and damage Ferox: optimal and tank Drake: damage and tank Brutix: damage and tank Myrmidon: damage and tank and quoting myself from a previous thread: Quote: cap and optimal bonuses being (at least intended) equivalent to damage, there is a clear mismatch between the roles of amarr and minmatar BC's with caldari and gallente ones. Where the previous two are the tankier one and the gankier one, the latter are both the same but with different weapon systems. Due to the lower amount of slots on Tier 1 BC's aswell as lower base hp, they simply end up being outperformed in all ways by Tier 2. It would seem that Brutix needs the repper bonus changed to a damage equivalent one (10% falloff seems most reasonable, direct damage would make it too good). And similarly Ferox would either have to go the tank or the damage way. Personally I would keep the hybrid orientation and change its resistance bonus to a hybrid damage bonus instead. Then it would justify its existence as a railboat (or blasters with Null for that minority [you know who you are]). This also makes more sense because we all know the Drake is good at tanking but does not do that great damage. ----------------------
arbiter reformed Minmatar Shut Up And Play	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:26:00 - [5] why put null in your blassters for 10 km ish range when lazors go 20km with scorch.. lazor ferox srsly
Gneeznow North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:49:00 - [6] ferox is badass as a blaster boat, 500 dps and nobody ever seems to see it coming until its too late, laser ferox also works wonders, 25km with scorch it owns pretty hard, hell even with 425 II autocannons and falloff rigs it kicks ass, ferox is a great turret ship
Knawt Ongrid	Posted - 2009.02.25 14:50:00 - [7] Edited by: Knawt Ongrid on 25/02/2009 14:52:17 Originally by: Jin Entres All the Tier 1 BC's could use a little buffing to make them more viable in comparison to Tier 2 BC's, however not in the same role obviously. Looking at their bonuses: Prophecy: cap and tank Harbinger: cap and damage Cyclone: damage and tank Hurricane: damage and damage Ferox: optimal and tank Drake: damage and tank Brutix: damage and tank Myrmidon: damage and tank and quoting myself from a previous thread: Quote: cap and optimal bonuses being (at least intended) equivalent to damage, there is a clear mismatch between the roles of amarr and minmatar BC's with caldari and gallente ones. Where the previous two are the tankier one and the gankier one, the latter are both the same but with different weapon systems. Due to the lower amount of slots on Tier 1 BC's aswell as lower base hp, they simply end up being outperformed in all ways by Tier 2. It would seem that Brutix needs the repper bonus changed to a damage equivalent one (10% falloff seems most reasonable, direct damage would make it too good). And similarly Ferox would either have to go the tank or the damage way. Personally I would keep the hybrid orientation and change its resistance bonus to a hybrid damage bonus instead. Then it would justify its existence as a railboat (or blasters with Null for that minority [you know who you are]). This also makes more sense because we all know the Drake is good at tanking but does not do that great damage. This partly. Only I would keep the Ferrox the same. Really, having flown them all, all tier one BC are not great ships, and they each need a tank bonus to remain consistent. Buff the Ferrox and you'd have to adjust all the other tier one BC. The real solution to the BC tiers and imbalance is to change the Drake and Myrmidon. People understand the role difference with the Amarr and Minmatar BCs. Change the Myrmidon and Drake for more gank. Give the myrm a 5% damage or 7.5% falloff bonus to replace the armor repper bonus, and give the Drake a 5% rof bonus to replace the shield resistance bonus. Both these ships right now overstep on and outdo the role of their tier one because they get the same tanking bonus. Take away their tanking bonused and they become gank BC like their Amarr and Minmatar counterparts. For missioning, taking away the tanking bonuses for Myrm and Drake would correct the imbalance presently where the Drake and to a lesser extent the Myrm allow Caldari and Gallente to gain entry into level 4s at lower skill levels than Amarr and Minmatar. Also, it would end the Drake whinage over damage. Both could still be setup with passive shield tanks it would however not be so easy to sport a level 4 tank while actually making them faster at level 3s. For pvp it would bring these two ships forward to the gank role with buffer tanks like the Harbinger and Cyclone.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 15:55:00 - [8] Both ferox and moa need more pg to be able to fit things up. Even the eagle lacks pg :( The slot lay outs and bonuses are okay ,but when you want to fit these ships up for their intended role you will see it is impossible due to lack of powergrid , and if you fit fitting modules these ships will do less than acceptable dps. So eighter give them + bonus for dmg(5%/lvl) or more powergrid. I see no reason why these ships should have much less pg than the other (especially gallente) ones as these are gunboats too ,but instead of blasters these need rails, and rails need even more pg/cpu than blasters. Oh and dont come with that the caldari ships dont need mwd,they need mwd as much as other factions ships.
Kazang Gallente Arbitrary Freedom	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:03:00 - [9] The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Kazang
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.02.25 16:56:00 - [10] Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? ----------------------
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? Possibly no ,he is just those idiots who thinks they know the truth,but cant proove anything.
Impolite Andevil The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.25 17:48:00 - [12] Originally by: Jin Entres Edited by: Jin Entres on 25/02/2009 16:59:13 Originally by: Kazang The ferrox is fine, its just idiots dont know how to fit it well. Its as good as if no better than the brutix, not for pure dps but its not meant for that. 1v1 a properly fit ferrox will beat a brutix. Not to mention the fact it makes an excellent disposable sniper. Care to enlighten us with a proper fit? Simple! Full passive shield tank with lasers in the highs! An be sure NOT to fit a cap booster. You might run out of charges, and then where would you be?
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:43:00 - [13] Thanks for your input so far! Here are some of my thoughts. "Laser Ferox" = fail IMO "extra PG for Ferox, and also Moa, Eagle" - Sure PG would help these ships but I want the turret hardpoints first. From what I understand it takes Advanced Weapons Upgrades V, an implant and a rig to fit the Eagle without any fitting mods. I'd take this as an argument that the ship needs a little PG but CCP may differ with me on that. However... what ship in Eve doesn't need a little more PG? "Ferox is already better than Brutix especially with some secret fit" - I am sure that there must be some successful Ferox fits, especially if you knew exactly what fight you were fitting ffor. However, this is not really how Eve works. What I think the Ferox needs is to fulfill some specific role reasonably well, "disposable sniper" for example. However currently I would probably be better off in a Moa for this role. If the Ferox had 7 turrets I would have some reason to choose it over the Moa. "Blaster Ferox" - I've looked at this and it has some good DPS... but much less than the equivalent fit on the Brutix. Brutix has two more turrets and a 25% hybrid damage bonus so can fit much more gank than Ferox. A Blaster Ferox with 7 turrets would be more able to compete. Now I don't know what difference the range bonus has here... possibly it is a good advantage but it doesn't seem so to me when we're talking about an optimal difference between the ships of a few km... while for DPS the difference is in hundreds. Keep the suggestions coming! I really like the look of the Ferox and want to be able to use them. - Helo
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:45:00 - [14] Edited by: Stalina on 25/02/2009 20:47:23 Originally by: Naomi Knight Oh and dont come with that the caldari ships dont need mwd,they need mwd as much as other factions ships. Like the nighthawk needs HAM's and MWD? Right? [Ferox, blasterox] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hobgoblin II x5 Might switch warp disrupt for scrambler these days and web for invul. Oh right powergrid: Ferox has 1343 PG for 6 turrets, brutix has 1437 pg for 7 turrets, wahwahwah moar powergrid please. _________________________________
Dax Ee'nnach Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.25 20:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Heloise ChateauBriande Keep the suggestions coming! I really like the look of the Ferox and want to be able to use them. - Helo /signed
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:25:00 - [16] Ferox is fine tbh. 250mm T2 rails snipeing out to 130km. Park it 100km away from your BS blob and plink away at small fry swarming friendly battleships. 200mm T2 rails with a modest buffer tank and some usefull EWAR. Can even squeak in a gang mod. Who primaries a ferox early? The problem in most players eyes is the ferox doesn't do OMGWTFBBQ damage.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:41:00 - [17] Rails = weakest DPS weapon turret Caldari = only race without a turret damage bonus ship Yep, there is a great combination.... range (while useful) isn't a sufficient replacement for decent DPS, even in QR post nano.... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Megan Maynard on 25/02/2009 21:51:10 When did it break???? And their "power" is their ability to hit at insane distances and maintain a great tank because they don't need tracking computers.............. Nano it, put a buffer in, damage mods and rails and have fun plinking out at 100 km. The things I would do if the minmatar had a range bonus like the caldari do............... Stop, hammer time.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.25 21:56:00 - [19] Originally by: arbiter reformed lazor bonus tbh. lazor ferox is win Convert all caldari rail ships to sansha/marauder style ships! with optimal and resists rather than damage and tracking laser and shield tanks ftw!
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:18:00 - [20] Originally by: Megan Maynard Edited by: Megan Maynard on 25/02/2009 21:51:10 When did it break???? And their "power" is their ability to hit at insane distances and maintain a great tank because they don't need tracking computers.............. Nano it, put a buffer in, damage mods and rails and have fun plinking out at 100 km. The things I would do if the minmatar had a range bonus like the caldari do............... You should stop posting. nano it?? omg... dont need tracking comps??? then its range wont be better than any other bc and its dmg will be still low. Actually the brutix is a better sniper. And pls tell me how do you fit tank +250mm rails?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:19:00 - [21] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 25/02/2009 22:19:34 Originally by: Stalina <PWNage Ferox> It can actually become even better swapping an Extender for an Invulnerability Field and a Nos instead of the launcher. If you want to discuss useless Tier1 BCs start with the Prophecy, it has nothing going for it except above average tank and a beak. At least the others have decent options available to them Bottom line, the old horses have largely been supplanted by the younger stallions due to better performance. Tier 1 is only really mandated when you need an even cheaper ship for those "this is going to end badly" fights .. you know .. the fun ones
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Stalina Like the nighthawk needs HAM's and MWD? Right? [Ferox, blasterox] oh yeah brutix fit .... If i would want to use blasters i would use the brutix, is there any reason to use ferox over a brutix in close range?? Brutix --> close range Ferox ---> long range got it?
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:27:00 - [23] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Ferox is fine tbh. 250mm T2 rails snipeing out to 130km. Park it 100km away from your BS blob and plink away at small fry swarming friendly battleships. 200mm T2 rails with a modest buffer tank and some usefull EWAR. Can even squeak in a gang mod. Who primaries a ferox early? The problem in most players eyes is the ferox doesn't do OMGWTFBBQ damage. Oh i cannot decide which one to use the ferox with 126km opt +170dps or the brutix with 84km opt +263 dps +25m3 more drone . It is so hard to choose....
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:29:00 - [24] Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/02/2009 22:30:48 Where the ferox can shoot at 80km with faction instead of t2 ammo, resulting in 4 times better tracking. I have this feeling someone here thinks a ferox has 5 turret hardpoints, it has 6. Edit: Oh you allready realised: Quote: edited because my EFT had 5/5 for turrets/launchers... now I see Ferox has 6 turrets. I want 7 though darnit!! While EFT is a great tool, and can also be used to compare ship balance on certain points, you really can't be taken serious if you didnt even check the ship in game. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Furb Killer Where the ferox can shoot at 80km with faction instead of t2 ammo, resulting in 4 times better tracking. I have this feeling someone here thinks a ferox has 5 turret hardpoints, it has 6. Sure it can for 140dps and tracking is still low for hitting most ceptors.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:35:00 - [26] I dont know which fit you uses, i can get 184 dps at 76+15 (i am sure you can get more, that was just a random fit i had with ammo for that range). Now we make a nice graph, and we assume the ferox isnt moving, and an interceptor (i took a crow) is at 50% of its max transversal speed (which is pretty reasonable imo). Then you still do over 80 dps against it. Now when we switch on that same fitting to spike ammo (so equal tracking to your brutix), we do 0 dps to the crow. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Xanos Blackpaw Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:37:00 - [27] the ferox is fine. its made to be a support sniper and its great in this role. 180 dps at 151 KM. --------------------------------------------- Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi".
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:37:00 - [28] Edit: Oh you allready realised: Quote: edited because my EFT had 5/5 for turrets/launchers... now I see Ferox has 6 turrets. I want 7 though darnit!! While EFT is a great tool, and can also be used to compare ship balance on certain points, you really can't be taken serious if you didnt even check the ship in game. So sue me Furb. It still needs a 7th turret. - Helo
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:40:00 - [29] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 25/02/2009 22:40:45 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw the ferox is fine. its made to be a support sniper and its great in this role. 180 dps at 151 KM. Lies. or fail fit without an mwd.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.25 22:51:00 - [30] Edited by: Kuzya Morozov on 25/02/2009 22:51:18 Quote: Give the myrm a 5% damage or 7.5% falloff bonus to replace the armor repper bonus
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2009.02.25 23:29:00 - [31] Beam Harb or Rail Brutix will kick the living crap out of a Ferox. Short range Ferox is lolltastic in comparison with short range BCs of every other race. I'm a big fan of saying every ship is good if you use it right...... but the ferox is just bad, much like the raptor.... it just doesn't have enough OOmmph to get the job done.... -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari Druuge Crimson Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Naomi Knight Oh i cannot decide which one to use the ferox with 126km opt +170dps or the brutix with 84km opt +263 dps +25m3 more drone . It is so hard to choose.... And if you want to kill frigs from your bs you wont hit them with spike loaded. And it is already bad if your friends bses are swarmed by enemy frigs .... If the hostiles are cooperative Spike can hit. If not switch out to faction Tungsten and take sub 2km/s transversal shots. This is really piloting tatics and theorycrafting that are outside the scope of the discussion. The Moa, Ferox and Eagle are all highly niche in their function. They preform that niche very well but the price paid is a damage output that is hardly eyepopping. Some deal with it and others don't.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:17:00 - [33] If the Ferox gets an additional turret you will have the same weird situation as with the Rokh: running out of cap just by firing your guns.
cpt Mark	Posted - 2009.02.26 00:23:00 - [34] I dont want a turret ship... i want a better missile Battleship
6Bagheera9 Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.02.26 03:21:00 - [35] Virtually all the tier 1 BCs (except the Brutix though its tough to fit) are underwhelming. Creativity will find niches, but they simply aren't first line ships.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.26 03:47:00 - [36] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/02/2009 03:47:59 Why not fit a buffer tank and shield harmonizing link? Kickass buffer to boot, and the passive recharge can almost be called a tank. Much like the Cyclone I see the best use for it as a cheap wannabe command ship, fit a link to boost the gang, slap some rails or blasters or even missiles on, whatever fits once ubertank, mwd and warfare links are sorted. Could even say its in some way better than the XL-Booster Cyclone.
Gneeznow North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.26 11:06:00 - [37] Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 25/02/2009 22:40:45 Originally by: Xanos Blackpaw the ferox is fine. its made to be a support sniper and its great in this role. 180 dps at 151 KM. Lies. or fail fit without an mwd. [Ferox, t2 rigs] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M [empty high slot] Hybrid Locus Coordinator II Hybrid Locus Coordinator II Hybrid Locus Coordinator I ....... lulz 150km + 14km falloff, 150dps
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.02.26 12:45:00 - [38] Edited by: Noisrevbus on 26/02/2009 12:50:39 Originally by: Haradgrim Yep, there is a great combination.... range (while useful) isn't a sufficient replacement for decent DPS, even in QR post nano... Originally by: Haradgrim I'm a big fan of saying every ship is good if you use it right...... but the ferox is just bad, much like the raptor.... it just doesn't have enough OOmmph to get the job done.... This, and this. Range + size: I think i argued the same case in a recent Raptor-thread. The range bonus of most (smaller-) ships is simply not enough to compete with a damage bonus. Once we start looking at BS sizes (Rokh) and the ships with double bonuses (Eagle, Vulture) the range bonus start to become appearant, but at the same time it is not incredibly strong (a Scorch-Lot still shoot quite alot further than a double-bonus Beagle). I'm not sure if it's a deficiency in the bonus itself, or in the hybrid-weapon platform (as argued before), but the bonus simply can't compete unless you reach breakpoint ranges that have a real effect in the game. The Rokh for example does, both with rails and blasters, which is why it's considered a good platform. Changing ammunition and weapon types: With blasters Rokh hit beyond certain short tackle-ranges, which allow it to do something similar can't do better. While i too get the idea that the range bonus can be seen as a supplement for using different ammunition, that concept is today rather more turned around. Where a damage platform can use longer ranges instead, or go point blank with much more damage. Especially, when considering that certain ships get a tracking bonus as well, which is more in tune with "upgrading" weapons or ammunition than the ability of a Ferox to "downgrade". Ineffective range: Rails The end result is that with Blasters, the bonus of the Ferox do not alter it's strategic position (over eg., a Brutix), unlike what it does for Vultures, Rokhs and Eagles. With Rails the ability to downgrade ammunition can not match the ability to upgrade ammunition and/or weapon size. A Ferox with 250mm do not have enough range, or enough punch to warrant a semi-sniper position over a Brutix either (trading about 100 DPS for 30km range, prior to drones, using 250mm II's /w Spike and 2x Comps, just to take an extreme range yet possible example). Especially when a range of around 130km is in the middle of no-man's land in terms of reach, right between two warp-points. To fight in it's optimal and use it's range bonus a Ferox have to slowboat there (and should you start downgrade ammo, you'll lose damage down to ~90km range [even with CN ammo] which is shorter than a Brutix), even if you do gain some tracking it's a bad trade-off. Ineffective range: Blasters The same argument is more easily posed with Blasters, where the tech II ammunition is actually not worse than the faction-counterparts. With Void the damage is considerably less, not only without bonus but also less turrets and less drones. The difference is otherworldly. Using Null the Ferox do escape immidiate web/scram range (unlike a Raptor), but have no comfort-zone to operate in (unlike the double range-bonused ships) so it's still closer to web/scram than point-range and a short range platform. The Brutix will also do more damage at longer range with Rails and AM. Summary: I just can't think of any scenario where that range bonus, in a reasonable (or common) live-situation would be better than damage or tracking. That's my gripe with it. It's not that i dislike the concept, but it should be balanced around other logical ranges in the game. Short range is bracketed up where webs, scramblers and disruptors operate. Sniping is bracketed up between warp-points. Sniping beyond 100km but not up to 150km is fairly useless. Having a range bonus but still being in tackle-range is fairly useless. That makes the Ferox, fairly useless (where a Vulture and Eagle pay alot of "bonus-value" to make some sense).
fkingfurious	Posted - 2009.02.26 13:00:00 - [39] Blaster Ferox isn't actually all that bad, certainly no worse than a Cyclone or Prophecy, and has benefited alot with the Scrambler chnages as a brave pilot can attempt to get away with only a Scram as it's tackle. 6x Ion II, Assault Launcher II 10MN MWD, 2x LSE II, Invuln II, Scrambler II 3x MFS II, DCU II No rigs if you're poor, resist rigs if you're not poor and extender rigs if you're rich. That gives it 68K EHP with the resist rigs (78k with extender) and 520+ DPS with faction ammo. The beauty of the ship is that it's optimal range bonus allows Null to comfortably hit well beyond overloaded web range, which is why you don't need one. As anyone who's been on the receiving end of an AB/Scram frig knows, a webber won't help you hit them if they get close, so carrying one for that purpose just gives a false sense of security. Against any close range BC/Cruiser the lack of web won't hinder you at all, except for stopping someone slow boating to a gate. So really, as a blaster boat theres nothing wrong with it. (And if you are worried about frigs swap the launcher for a small neut and carry 5 warrior II's and you're as safe against them as a BC is going to get anyway).
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.02.26 13:27:00 - [40] Edited by: Noisrevbus on 26/02/2009 13:30:39 Originally by: fkingfurious The beauty of the ship is that it's optimal range bonus allows Null to comfortably hit well beyond overloaded web range, which is why you don't need one. 13.3km [optimal + falloff] (on perfect skills) vs. 13.0km [overloaded] (on a non-bonused ship). What am i missing? 0.3km is well beyond? Are you sure you are not mixing the Ferox up with the Vulture? ;). (edit: 13.3km even, when double-checking, not 13.6km)
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.26 21:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Noisrevbus 13.3km [optimal + falloff] (on perfect skills) vs. 13.0km [overloaded] (on a non-bonused ship). What am i missing? 0.3km is well beyond? Are you sure you are not mixing the Ferox up with the Vulture? ;). (edit: 13.3km even, when double-checking, not 13.6km) 8.4 optimal + 7.8 falloff = 16.2 range on maxed ferox w/ null, and 5.6 + 7.8 on unbonused ship. Not that it is any sort of reasonable buffer against someone trying to get his overheated web on you, especially not in something as sluggish as a ferox. I still dont understand why people dont use the ship for the role its intended for, its a tier1 bc with tanking bonus, put a massive tank and warfare link on it. And use rails instead of blasters, it gets a bonus to optimal, which is a bonus to rails. [Ferox, warfare link] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M 200mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Plutonium Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M Dual 150mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge M Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x5
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:06:00 - [42] Edited by: Karl Luckner on 26/02/2009 22:09:19 Great idea, you could as well fit 5 snowball launchers. And one unbonused ganglink doesn't make you primary. Tanking itself is no role.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:18:00 - [43] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/02/2009 22:19:16 Originally by: Karl Luckner Great idea, you could as well fit 5 snowball launchers. And one unbonused ganglink doesn't make you primary. Tanking itself is no role. Lulz. Providing gang boost is a role if you didnt know that. And surprise, for that role having a good tank is advised, while you couldnt care less about dps. Besides you can as well fit blasters, duh. Still a waste of that nice optimal bonus, but if you insist do it.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:43:00 - [44] Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen 7th turret + more fitting to actually squese it in could do the trick. Even now Ferox is extremely PG-deficient. Just more grid would be a start. Although I won't complain about it being a 7 turret BC - I mean, lets face it, the Brutix gets 7 turrets, a 50m3 dronebay, and a damage bonus. Compare to that ... well, even a 7 turret Ferox isn't particularly awesome, but it'd be a step along the right lines. Ideally it'd also have a low -> mid too. But now I think I'm starting to get a bit optimistic.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:49:00 - [45] A mindlinked Claymore has a role in a small gang. The Ferox you proposed is hardly more then dead weight.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:55:00 - [46] Brutix is just a Thorax on steroids, not comparable to the Ferox in any way.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.26 22:59:00 - [47] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 26/02/2009 23:02:57 Originally by: Karl Luckner A mindlinked Claymore has a role in a small gang. The Ferox you proposed is hardly more then dead weight. You realize you are comparing a tier1 BC to a CS here? You see the pricetag?? But yea, the BCs just get the bonus to warfare links cause devs couldnt be arsed to think of something useful FYI, a mindlinked Claymore would profit from said Ferox a big deal.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.02.26 23:13:00 - [48] No, I just say a your setup can't fill the Role auf a gang booster. A single unbonused ganglink is no substitute for tackle and DPS.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.27 00:14:00 - [49] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 00:18:05 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 00:16:41 Originally by: Karl Luckner No, I just say a your setup can't fill the Role auf a gang booster. A single unbonused ganglink is no substitute for tackle and DPS. Well, you are wrong. Unless increased EHP is a bad thing in PvP now. You might notice no t1 BC gets a bonus to its ganglinks, so it fills the role just as good as any BC does. So what was your point again? Also tackle has nothing to do with gang boosters, not the slightest bit, and so does DPS. You really think that 1x web 1x scram are worth more than increased HP for the whole fleet? Really? Nobody in his right mind would use a Cyclone for DPS either, but its a much better booster platform than the hurricane.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.02.27 00:51:00 - [50] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 00:18:05 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 00:16:41 Well, you are wrong. Unless increased EHP is a bad thing in PvP now. You might notice no t1 BC gets a bonus to its ganglinks, so it fills the role just as good as any BC does. So what was your point again? Also tackle has nothing to do with gang boosters, not the slightest bit, and so does DPS. You really think that 1x web 1x scram are worth more than increased HP for the whole fleet? Really? Nobody in his right mind would use a Cyclone for DPS either, but its a much better booster platform than the hurricane. I guess we just have to agree to disagree. For me, there is no point in fielding such a poor gangbooster instead of an gankship/e-war platform. May become interesting for larger gangs, where it actually would make a difference, but in that case I would go for a fleetcommand anyway.
Ryoken McKeon Galactic Defence Syndicate Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.27 01:01:00 - [51] Give it the extra turret slot and PG, but make the optimal bonus to rails only. That will differentiate it's use with a brutix.
MidnightMartyr Gallente NailorTech Industries Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.27 01:44:00 - [52] Originally by: Stalina Edited by: Stalina on 25/02/2009 20:49:16 Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile My mind just exploded due to the fact that there is null in only one of the guns. (very OCD) Was that intentional, and thus have a reason, or did you just miss one when converting the charges? /ocd
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.02.27 02:03:00 - [53] Personally the resist bonus seems idiotic. The range bonus says it is a sniper. Why do you need resists when you're sniping? Why not give it a bonus that compliments the optimal range bonus? Or maybe increase the amount of the optimal range bonus. Let it snipe at 150km with a decent fit. Not one with t2 rigs or like...4 tracking computers + 4 tracking enhancers. I would use these if they could actually shoot outside sentry range without gimping them so much that it is more worth while to fly something else. --- Put in space whales!
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.02.27 02:07:00 - [54] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Originally by: Noisrevbus 13.3km [optimal + falloff] (on perfect skills) vs. 13.0km [overloaded] (on a non-bonused ship). 8.4 optimal + 7.8 falloff = 16.2 range on maxed ferox w/ null, and 5.6 + 7.8 on unbonused ship. If you had actually bothered to read the referal post of the citation, you can clearly see the original poster saying "Ion". Your ranges are with Neutron. That is another weapon. As for the argument about Rails. Rails are an option, but not necessarily a clear cut choice. A range bonus is definately not supposed to be only a Rail bonus (even if longer range stand to reach better scaling), that's a "bad Gallente" argument. Even if you switch over to Rails, the damage bonus on the Brutix is superior. I have already raised some points as to why, if you had bothered to read the larger argument of what you are trying to quote out of it's context. Gang links, while i agree with the general idea of Links being a utility-option that can square against having eg., tackle (in a gang large enough to support it); being able to fit a Link is nothing unique to the Ferox. Instead, being unable to effectively incorporate Links is more in relation to the Caldari platforms as they lack grid, with grid-hungry weapons. The Drake being even worse than the Ferox in that regard (good boat without the link, but not made to fit a link despite having a bonus toward it). The Drake unlike the Ferox though, is a good platform overall.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.27 02:39:00 - [55] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 02:45:39 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 02:42:00 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 02:41:09 Originally by: Noisrevbus If you had actually bothered to read the referal post of the citation, you can clearly see the original poster saying "Ion". Your ranges are with Neutron. That is another weapon. Yea, my bad. I did actually notice it after I reading another post later, but didnt bother to edit. Quote: As for the argument about Rails. Rails are an option, but not necessarily a clear cut choice. A range bonus is definately not supposed to be only a Rail bonus (even if longer range stand to reach better scaling), that's a "bad Gallente" argument. Even if you switch over to Rails, the damage bonus on the Brutix is superior. I have already raised some points as to why, if you had bothered to read the larger argument of what you are trying to quote out of it's context. Well, I see it this way, a true bonus to blasters besides damage would be tracking, or falloff like the Deimos gets. Optimal is wasted on blasters, as you take a 50% penalty right away with AM, while Null gives more from falloff than optimal. Rails on the other hand profit a great deal from optimal bonus, more so since you dont typically use ammunation that'll cut your bonus in half right away. Quote: Instead, being unable to effectively incorporate Links is more in relation to the Caldari platforms as they lack grid, with grid-hungry weapons. The Drake being even worse than the Ferox in that regard (good boat without the link, but not made to fit a link despite having a bonus toward it). The Drake unlike the Ferox though, is a good platform overall. Yea, exactly my point. I'd never suggest putting a link on a Drake really as you lose out so much potential there. The Ferox on the other hand, much like the Prophecy (and Cyclone to some extend), is a low priority when calling targets (no dps to speak of, good tank), and hence the ideal platform to put a link on. I'm using links on the Hurricane now and then, but since it gets called primary early on it is a bad booster platform, Cyclone however does good as people usually shoot it last. In my opinion, the only race that doesnt get a nice t1 warfare link platform are gallente, as basically both of their BCs are damage dealers, although I can see the myrm being remotely useful in that role I'd prolly fit it for dmg anyway.
bldyannoyed Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.02.27 12:23:00 - [56] I think the Ferox should definitely get an additional turret slot and a boost to fitting to accomodate it. Because of course the ship wouldn't be massivley superior to all the other tier 1 BC's if it did..... Seriously, with the way scramlers work these days (allowing you to tackle with only a single module) the tasty resist bonus (compared to the utter fail of say the Brutix's rep bonus) a 7 Ion triple MFS ferox would be an absolute monster. With my skills (so no all lvl5 silliness) I would get 515DPS out of 7 IonII's with CN AM and 3x MFS II BEFORE drones and whatever you choose to throw at the last high slot. So potentially you're looking at 600DPS or more (you get 97 out of 5 Hob II's) with a 57K UNRIGGED buffer tank and the ability, thanks to a questionable change to scrams, to tackle all by your very own self. DO IT IMMEDIATELY CCP.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.27 13:45:00 - [57] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 27/02/2009 13:45:09 Originally by: Lilith Velkor While ~250 dps arent exactly stellar, having the option for mid-range sniping isnt useless in a well-rounded gang. But it isnt 250dps it is 170dps with 6x250mm rails +2 magfs t2. If you want to use antimatter with rails then you should fit blasters. 170dps is nothing ,even some frigs have more ...
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2009.02.27 15:45:00 - [58] Originally by: MidnightMartyr Originally by: Stalina Edited by: Stalina on 25/02/2009 20:49:16 Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile My mind just exploded due to the fact that there is null in only one of the guns. (very OCD) Was that intentional, and thus have a reason, or did you just miss one when converting the charges? /ocd checking range? _________________________________
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.02.27 16:02:00 - [59] Quote: If you want to use antimatter with rails then you should fit blasters. lolwut? 250mm Rails on a Ferox with antimatter have a 25km optimal without any tracking mods... add your 15km falloff and you're still dealing reasonable damage at 40km out, which is perfect midrange sniper territory. Add some magstabs, tracking computers and a little bit of tank and an afterburner and you have a ship dealing 250 gun dps at 35km whilst travelling at 400m/s. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.02.27 18:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Heloise ChateauBriande Keep the suggestions coming! I really like the look of the Ferox and want to be able to use them. Issue is the same with almost all rails platforms (ie, moa, eagle, ferox, etc). They never have enough powergrid to fit the powergrid hungry top tier rails - which you need to snipe and counter-snipe. They need to fit sensor boosters then most of the time to target out to those ranges and often tracking computers to hit out to those ranges even though they're supposed to be sniper ships. Increasing power grid and locking distance, base optimal on the ships - by itself - would fix their problems. Then they'd be a reasonable sniper. Right now you need to put fitting equipment on them to fit the guns, you wind up hitting for non-existent damage and you have no tank to speak of.
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.02.27 18:13:00 - [61] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: If you want to use antimatter with rails then you should fit blasters. lolwut? 250mm Rails on a Ferox with antimatter have a 25km optimal without any tracking mods... add your 15km falloff and you're still dealing reasonable damage at 40km out, which is perfect midrange sniper territory. Add some magstabs, tracking computers and a little bit of tank and an afterburner and you have a ship dealing 250 gun dps at 35km whilst travelling at 400m/s. 250dps at 35km is terrible. Not sure what you're smoking and you can't even fit the top tier without using a fitting mod.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.27 18:58:00 - [62] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 19:01:47 Originally by: Naomi Knight But it isnt 250dps it is 170dps with 6x250mm rails +2 magfs t2. If you want to use antimatter with rails then you should fit blasters. 170dps is nothing ,even some frigs have more ... You're forgetting drones, I've used 5x warrior II and 3x 150s / 3x 200s in my fitting. 225 dps incl. drones (244 with hobos) with 30km range on the rails, 253 if you go with antimatter which clearly isnt really worth it.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.27 20:47:00 - [63] Originally by: Lilith Velkor You're forgetting drones, I've used 5x warrior II and 3x 150s / 3x 200s in my fitting. 225 dps incl. drones (244 with hobos) with 30km range on the rails, 253 if you go with antimatter which clearly isnt really worth it. Pulse harbinger 450dps at same range +drones :P
Lilith Velkor Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.	Posted - 2009.02.27 22:43:00 - [64] Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 22:43:33 Originally by: Naomi Knight Pulse harbinger 450dps at same range +drones :P So? Does that pulse harbinger have a warfare link on, and how much damage can it soak? How much damage can it rep back per second ontop of its buffer?
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.27 23:23:00 - [65] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 27/02/2009 22:43:33 Originally by: Naomi Knight Pulse harbinger 450dps at same range +drones :P So? Does that pulse harbinger have a warfare link on, and how much damage can it soak? How much damage can it rep back per second ontop of its buffer? Yes it can fit 1 warfare link easily,but i dont think gank bc-s need warfare link, command ships are much better for them. It has 34k ehp no repair, why do you need repair btw it wont save your ship? And 50m3 drones ,twice than the ferox has. And no rigs. How much your ferox has ,while still doing 250dps at 35km? And dont forget the mwd.
Joe Logoffski	Posted - 2009.02.28 02:16:00 - [66] Edited by: Joe Logoffski on 28/02/2009 02:22:28 Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes it can fit 1 warfare link easily,but i dont think gank bc-s need warfare link, command ships are much better for them. It has 34k ehp no repair, why do you need repair btw it wont save your ship? And 50m3 drones ,twice than the ferox has. And no rigs. How much your ferox has ,while still doing 250dps at 35km? And dont forget the mwd. It has MWD ofc, 120k EHP, 312 dps passively tanked across the board. You might realize it would have killed your harbinger with its silly dps before you even managed to strip 25% of its shield if it has a tackler to keep you there, as you are barely able to get past its passive recharge. Only 25m¦ drones, but thats a case of target selection, your harbinger would be better against cruiser and up, while the Ferox in question is rather limited to frigates and weak cruisers (or lolfit BCs ). But its a gang ship anyway. I'm using rigs on it though, and imo a harbinger should as well. 34k EHP is laughable at best compared to what harbinger is capable of buffer-wise (my cane easily beats that without any rig while doing 200 dps more without effort), just as 450 dps is ridiculously low for a harb. Posting on alt as main sub just ran out...
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.02.28 08:06:00 - [67] Originally by: Joe Logoffski Edited by: Joe Logoffski on 28/02/2009 02:28:59 Edited by: Joe Logoffski on 28/02/2009 02:26:58 Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes it can fit 1 warfare link easily,but i dont think gank bc-s need warfare link, command ships are much better for them. It has 34k ehp no repair, why do you need repair btw it wont save your ship? And 50m3 drones ,twice than the ferox has. And no rigs. How much your ferox has ,while still doing 250dps at 35km? And dont forget the mwd. It has MWD ofc, 120k EHP, 312 dps passively tanked across the board. You might realize it would have killed your harbinger with its silly dps before you even managed to strip 15% of its shield if it has a tackler to keep you there, as you are barely able to get past its passive recharge. You see how useful a rep tank is there, the low dps Ferox would eat your whole buffer in 3 1/2 minutes, while you'd need 13 minutes to drop its tank. Only 25m¦ drones, but thats a case of target selection, your harbinger would be better against cruiser and up, while the Ferox in question is rather limited to frigates and weak cruisers (or lolfit BCs ). But its a gang ship anyway. I'm using rigs on it though, and imo a harbinger should as well. 34k EHP is laughable at best compared to what harbinger is capable of buffer-wise (my cane easily beats that without any rig while doing 200 dps more without effort), just as 450 dps is ridiculously low for a harb. Posting on alt as main sub just ran out... Could you just post the fit? Ive tried to do everything on the ferox what you aimed for but it just doesnt ads up. So you are lieing or made an error somewhere. You are wrong. First it is not 1vs1(especially as you suggested putting gang war module on the ship-->at least 10ppl gang to worth it),so your ferox would melt much faster if 5+ ships shoot it minimizing its recharge ability ,what is neglectible due to this. The rigs you would put on these ships cost 14m/each that is 40m for the 3 rigs, my whole harbinger costs less than 40m after insurance. and it has a point + scrable or web +50m3 drones which wasnt included in the dps. Btw dps is much more important than tank especially in gang. Your crane would do this dmg at 1km ,not at the range of 35km.
Franga	Posted - 2009.02.28 09:02:00 - [68] Originally by: Gneeznow ferox is badass as a blaster boat, 500 dps and nobody ever seems to see it coming until its too late, laser ferox also works wonders, 25km with scorch it owns pretty hard, hell even with 425 II autocannons and falloff rigs it kicks ass, ferox is a great turret ship I tend to agree with this. Blaster boat with just a 10MN AB. Yes, an AB. No-one seems to really care about it and leave it until last. Then when they see the killmail and the ferox is up near the top ... ----------
Joe Logoffski	Posted - 2009.02.28 15:52:00 - [69] Edited by: Joe Logoffski on 28/02/2009 15:55:19 Originally by: Naomi Knight Could you just post the fit? Ive tried to do everything on the ferox what you aimed for but it just doesnt ads up. So you are lieing or made an error somewhere. It is posted in this thread at page 2... Maybe you didnt get the EHP right because you forgot to set the booster (if you manage to put a link on your harby, use the proper one, set it as booster and you also get a bit more EHP from it). Quote: You are wrong. First it is not 1vs1(especially as you suggested putting gang war module on the ship-->at least 10ppl gang to worth it),so your ferox would melt much faster if 5+ ships shoot it minimizing its recharge ability ,what is neglectible due to this. Btw dps is much more important than tank especially in gang. Uhm, lets look at an example. Lets say we have a large fleet engagement, both sides have 5k dps each. Your harbinger literally instapops, living about 7 seconds once it is primaried. In this period of time it'll have inflicted a whole 3150 damage. My Ferox would pop after 24 seconds once primaried (even a tiny bit longer due to recharge), in this time inflicting 5400 damage, and increasing the whole gangs EHP as long as it lives. Since it sports more dps, you harbinger will most likely be primaried long before my Ferox anyway, but thats debatable, depeding on how large the fleets are removing the boosters is advisable early on even if they are heavily tanked.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.02.28 18:41:00 - [70] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 28/02/2009 18:46:43 Quote: 250dps at 35km is terrible. Not sure what you're smoking and you can't even fit the top tier without using a fitting mod. It's really 290 gun DPS at 35km + 15km Falloff, and you most certainly can fit a full rack of 250mm. What you can't do is fit a full rack of 250mm and also get away with a gang mod, but that just goes without saying; if you want to gang mod, drop to 200mm. Personally I prefer to fit D150mm and pick off frigates, but that's just my own preference. You get 45k EHP out of it without rigs too, which is nothing to sneer at considering the low cost of the entire setup. [Ferox, 250mm] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 10MN Afterburner II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Quote: Could you just post the fit? Ive tried to do everything on the ferox what you aimed for but it just doesnt ads up. So you are lieing or made an error somewhere. You neglected gang bonuses; 312 passively tanked DPS comes from something like 3x CDFE, 2x LSE, 1x Invul, 3x SFC & 1x DC and the gang bonus module you'd run on such a ship. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.02.28 19:33:00 - [71] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Personally the resist bonus seems idiotic. The range bonus says it is a sniper. Why do you need resists when you're sniping? Why not give it a bonus that compliments the optimal range bonus? An in-built resist bonus means you need to fit less shield mods for a buffer tank which in turn frees up midslots for tracking computers and sensor boosters so you can maximise you range/tracking.
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.02.28 19:40:00 - [72] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 28/02/2009 19:43:51 Originally by: Franga Originally by: Gneeznow ferox is badass as a blaster boat, 500 dps and nobody ever seems to see it coming until its too late, laser ferox also works wonders, 25km with scorch it owns pretty hard, hell even with 425 II autocannons and falloff rigs it kicks ass, ferox is a great turret ship I tend to agree with this. Blaster boat with just a 10MN AB. Yes, an AB. No-one seems to really care about it and leave it until last. Then when they see the killmail and the ferox is up near the top ... In small engagements the enemy might get close enough for your blasters to become effective but in larger fights you will spend most of your time chasing faster targets around while doing practically zero dps, which is not very useful. A blaster Ferox works ok vs slower ships (e.g BS) and also in situations where you land right on top of your target but this doesn't happen that often and even then there are other ships that work better in the same circumstances (e.g. Brutix, HAM Drake, 1600mm plated Hail Cane etc). When both mobility and range are needed, it sadly falls short. If you're going to argue about whether or not this ship is effective you need to examine it's specific (and unique amongst BCs) role. First and foremost, it's a fleet support sniper. The question should be, is it good enough as it is or does it need a boost?
Dasalt Istgut	Posted - 2009.02.28 20:03:00 - [73] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 28/02/2009 18:46:43 Quote: 250dps at 35km is terrible. Not sure what you're smoking and you can't even fit the top tier without using a fitting mod. It's really 290 gun DPS at 35km + 15km Falloff, and you most certainly can fit a full rack of 250mm. What you can't do is fit a full rack of 250mm and also get away with a gang mod, but that just goes without saying; if you want to gang mod, drop to 200mm. Personally I prefer to fit D150mm and pick off frigates, but that's just my own preference. You get 45k EHP out of it without rigs too, which is nothing to sneer at considering the low cost of the entire setup. [Ferox, 250mm] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 10MN Afterburner II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M 250mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Quote: Could you just post the fit? Ive tried to do everything on the ferox what you aimed for but it just doesnt ads up. So you are lieing or made an error somewhere. You neglected gang bonuses; 312 passively tanked DPS comes from something like 3x CDFE, 2x LSE, 1x Invul, 3x SFC & 1x DC and the gang bonus module you'd run on such a ship. Uh, so you get **** damage at range with a lol-afterburner fit on a Battlecruiser. Your tank is poor, your tracking is poor, you need two optimal mods to hit medium range... Good luck with that fit.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.02.28 20:09:00 - [74] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Personally I prefer to fit D150mm and pick off frigates, but that's just my own preference. Originally by: Dasalt Istgut Uh, so you get ** damage at range with a lol-afterburner fit on a Battlecruiser. Your tank is poor, your tracking is poor, you need two optimal mods to hit medium range... Good luck with that fit. Back to school please to learn the finer principles of comprehension.Whilst you're there, look up the phrase "Devil's Advocate"! Originally by:** Cedric Diggory Personally I prefer to fit D150mm and pick off frigates, but that's just my own preference. Just because I link a setup - in this case done simply to show that it's easily possible to fit 250mm rails on a Ferox - doesn't mean I'd fly it. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Laughlyn Vaughns Gallente Active Exploration Organisation IMPERIUM.	Posted - 2009.02.28 23:43:00 - [75] I do think that yeah the 7th turret on a ferox would be nice but didnt they already add the 6th turret to improve the dps? sure it used to be 5/5 layout on it. But yeah a further 7th turret or alteration in the skill bonii which also the brutix beign the damage dealer would be rather nice to offer variety in the tank/gank offerings having the ferox with range and damage would make it a very desirable sniper i'd imagine, i've doen a few firign tests with corp mates oveer the years and the eagle/ferox just didnt dent the ships i used unless it was a frig and even then my Wolf/Jag dodnt suffer that much. on the subject of 7th turrets - 7th turret for the Fleet Tempest
Groknor	Posted - 2009.03.01 01:48:00 - [76] Originally by: Haradgrim Rails = weakest DPS weapon turret Caldari = only race without a turret damage bonus ship Yep, there is a great combination.... range (while useful) isn't a sufficient replacement for decent DPS, even in QR post nano.... Actually artillery has the least dps.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.03.01 02:17:00 - [77] The idea with increasing the range bonus to 20% makes most sense to me. Would give it a role, instead of trying to turn it into a Brutix light.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.03.03 09:28:00 - [78] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Personally the resist bonus seems idiotic. The range bonus says it is a sniper. Why do you need resists when you're sniping? Why not give it a bonus that compliments the optimal range bonus? Or maybe increase the amount of the optimal range bonus. Let it snipe at 150km with a decent fit... I'm liking this idea. Since most of us agree that it is no competition for the Brutix in blaster range... perhaps make the Ferox a sniping specialist... i.e. replace the tanking bonus with another optimal range bonus so is like a cheap Vulture? Could be pretty nice... and also I would love to have 6-7 turrets on my Vulture... - Helo
Snow Banshee Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.03 10:06:00 - [79] @people who say: "FEROX HAVE TOO FEW PG. THE BRUTIX IS SOOOO UBER .. ( whine, whine whine)" Did you at least checked the base PG of those ships? Here the links: BRUTIX VS FEROX Only 75PG difference! And thats not really an advantage considering that armor tankers need much more PG than shield tankers. You simply cant have everithyng, go "tank" OR "gank" and thats true for both ships. Stop whine and learn how eve works. P.S.) Brutixes is even harder to fit than feroxes ....
welsh wizard 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.03.03 10:39:00 - [80] Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. --------------- RIP Crazy Horse
Dark Voynix Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.03.03 10:57:00 - [81] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:00:00 - [82] Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore But ferox only has 6 turret slots while the brutix has 7 ,that is a huge difference.
GyokZoli Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:07:00 - [83] The best Ferox setup ever: [Ferox, salvaging] Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II 10MN Afterburner II Large Capacitor Battery II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Salvager I Salvager I Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x5
achoura	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:15:00 - [84] Buy rails, snipe, profit? It's a mini rokh, and the only bc that can actually engage outside sentry range. The ferox is in no way a perfect machine, however BC in general need review so a thread such as this is ultimately pointless. Something in a mroe relevant forum section regarding bc in general would prove more production long term... *The EVE servers and their patches*
arbiter reformed Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:23:00 - [85] Edited by: arbiter reformed on 03/03/2009 11:25:34 comparing the ferox to a harbinger is a moot point, comp+are it to a prophecy and youll see the ferox isnt a bad boat. no it cant use blasters as well as a brutix but should it? either way it makes a great lasor boat and and the best rail bc (not that that makes it pwn) but it can be nice for sniping of takle on gatecamps, its not a daps monster but it can fit a nice buffer tank and, remember it does more dps than a prophrecy with lazors, cyclone is also somwhat underwhelming not all ships should be good at the same thing
Dark Voynix Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:50:00 - [86] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore But ferox only has 6 turret slots while the brutix has 7 ,that is a huge difference. NO .. not at all!!! You are not considering the "grid problem". You are supposing that the brutix can easilly put 7x neutron blastersand the ferox just 6, but this in unpractical( for both ships). Most brutix setups downgrade at least partially to ion/electrons, to be able to put that damned 7th gun. And as i said before: Since brutix is an armour tanker it have less PG for guns than the ferox, so the one more gun it can put in theory, can be practically used only if you downgrade all ( almost) the turrets. Note: im not saying that have 7 turrets is bad, im just saying that the difference between ferox and brutix is quite ephemeral because of PG restriction.
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.03 11:55:00 - [87] Originally by: arbiter reformed remember it does more dps than a prophrecy with lazors, cyclone is also somwhat underwhelming not all ships should be good at the same thing Arguing that a Ferox is ok cos it's better than the 2 worst BCs in the game is pretty stupid. Both the Prophecy and Cyclone are useless except in PvE, so your comparison actually supports the argument to boost the Ferox for PvP.
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:01:00 - [88] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 03/03/2009 12:03:59 Originally by: Dark Voynix NO .. not at all!!! You are not considering the "grid problem". You are supposing that the brutix can easilly put 7x neutron blastersand the ferox just 6, but this in unpractical( for both ships). Most brutix setups downgrade at least partially to ion/electrons, to be able to put that damned 7th gun. And as i said before: Since brutix is an armour tanker it have less PG for guns than the ferox, so the one more gun it can put in theory, can be practically used only if you downgrade all ( almost) the turrets. Note: im not saying that have 7 turrets is bad, im just saying that the difference between ferox and brutix is quite ephemeral because of PG restriction. The Brutix can easily fit a full rack of electron blasters and a very nice dual rep tank. It struggles to fit ions and can't fit neutrons. The Ferox can fit 250s and a tank with a single RCU. It can fit smaller guns quite easily so I think its grid is ok. However, its damage is pants. Adding a 7th turret without increasing the grid at all might be a balanced way to give it a boost as this would force you to either go for max damage+range (with 250s) and minimal/zero tank or drop down to 200mm rails to be able to fit a tank. This is pretty much the compromise that you currently need to make with the Eagle.
arbiter reformed Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:03:00 - [89] Originally by: Cletus Graeme Originally by: arbiter reformed remember it does more dps than a prophrecy with lazors, cyclone is also somwhat underwhelming not all ships should be good at the same thing Arguing that a Ferox is ok cos it's better than the 2 worst BCs in the game is pretty stupid. Both the Prophecy and Cyclone are useless except in PvE, so your comparison actually supports the argument to boost the Ferox for PvP. ok but remember the tier 1 bcs are all lacking compared to there tier 2 counterparts, the ferox is a viable gunnery pvp ship, saying that its crap because its better than two of 4 tier 1 bcs is slightly odd methinks, and i never said it was worse than the brutix just that it was worse with blasters which is resonable imo
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:09:00 - [90] Originally by: arbiter reformed ok but remember the tier 1 bcs are all lacking compared to there tier 2 counterparts, the ferox is a viable gunnery pvp ship, saying that its crap because its better than two of 4 tier 1 bcs is slightly odd methinks, and i never said it was worse than the brutix just that it was worse with blasters which is resonable imo Agreed. We aren't saying it's crap - it isn't. But it is a bit "meh". Personally I think the Prophecy and Cyclone need fixing more but while we're relooking at all T1 BCs we might aswell boost the Ferox a little bit to make it more worth flying. I think the Brutix is fine, it's an awesome ship, but for the sake of fairness it could be be given a minor boost too - dunno what tho. Anyway that's all OT. The point of this thread is does the Ferox need fixing and if so how? Is it broken? No, i don't think so. Could it use some love? Yes.
arbiter reformed Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:13:00 - [91] Edited by: arbiter reformed on 03/03/2009 12:15:32 i think the tier 1 bcs do a few things well, they can provide valuble ganlink support to gangs while tanking well, they are positioned rather well between cruiser hulls and tier two bcs, could they use some love? sure why not but theyve got to be worse than tier two and or have a noticably different role, but still tank better than cruisers, when you say fix the ferox you have to compare it to its counterparts and compared to the rest of the tier one bcs its fine if nothing amazing (laser ferox is an exeption) if theres an argument to boost one of the tier one bc,s you should really also argue to boost all tier one bc¦s. which i think isnt really needed.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:17:00 - [92] Leave it alone. It already got it's sixth turret and now performs admirably, it's not our fault that you can't figure out how to use this ship to it's full effectiveness. It's just as good as the Brutix and Cyclone are. If anything needs a boost, it's the poor old Prophecy. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:17:00 - [93] Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore But ferox only has 6 turret slots while the brutix has 7 ,that is a huge difference. NO .. not at all!!! You are not considering the "grid problem". You are supposing that the brutix can easilly put 7x neutron blastersand the ferox just 6, but this in unpractical( for both ships). Most brutix setups downgrade at least partially to ion/electrons, to be able to put that damned 7th gun. And as i said before: Since brutix is an armour tanker it have less PG for guns than the ferox, so the one more gun it can put in theory, can be practically used only if you downgrade all ( almost) the turrets. Note: im not saying that have 7 turrets is bad, im just saying that the difference between ferox and brutix is quite ephemeral because of PG restriction. If you realy want to tank a Brutix, you are down to Electrons. You even need a T2 RCU to get a Neutron Setup on a shield tanked Brutix(fits with the 5% Powergrid Imp and Named Shield Extenders). Shield Tank Ferox got about 40-50% more Buffer compared to a shield buffered Brutix and 50% more Range(what isn¦t that bad with Null) and while beeing a bit slower and having 60% less DPS. DPS compared to a Armor Tanked Brutix is more or less the same imho. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
achoura	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:25:00 - [94] Originally by: Cletus Graeme Originally by: arbiter reformed remember it does more dps than a prophrecy with lazors, cyclone is also somwhat underwhelming not all ships should be good at the same thing Arguing that a Ferox is ok cos it's better than the 2 worst BCs in the game is pretty stupid. Both the Prophecy and Cyclone are useless except in PvE, so your comparison actually supports the argument to boost the Ferox for PvP. The only person who actually mentioned best and worst was you which means that even if you're not consciously saying it, you've already classified them based on what you think is best flawing your own arguments. Moreover, saying that they useless for pvp only displays your ignorance (again flawing your arguments) of the ships you're attempting to "discuss". Their role may be severely limited, but the do work outside of pvp, if only in a limited fashion. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:35:00 - [95] Quote: Both the Prophecy and Cyclone are useless except in PvE, Cyclone is pretty damn useful in PVP to be honest, provided you ignore the lame tanking bonus and fit it properly. Makes a really nice, fast, high damage battlecruiser. Very effective for the amount it costs, and whislt it's not as good a min/max ships as the hurricane, I think you'd be surprised at how well an unrigged Cyclone compares to unrigged tier two battlecruisers. It's rigs that really imbalance it, as the min/max effect comes into play. As for the Prophecy, there's not a finer bait/cyno ship in the game. Damage is absolutely woeful (please change that laser cap bonus to laser damage!) and so it simply doesn't get used. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:42:00 - [96] Originally by: achoura The only person who actually mentioned best and worst was you which means that even if you're not consciously saying it, you've already classified them based on what you think is best flawing your own arguments. What? Originally by: achoura Moreover, saying that they useless for pvp only displays your ignorance (again flawing your arguments) of the ships you're attempting to "discuss". Their role may be severely limited, but the do work outside of pvp, if only in a limited fashion. Give me a PvP situation where you would pefer a Prophecy in your gang over a Harbi or a Cyclone instead of a Cane. I bet you can't. This is why they aren't useful for PvP. You can get kills in ANY ship in EvE but if there is no reason to fly it cos another ship does the job better then they won't get used much. This is a general problem for ship in EvE which don't have a well defined role. AFs had the same problem when compared with T1 cruisers and although the changes to warp scrams have made AFs more useful the problem still exists. The Rook also suffers from the same problem cos the Falcon does the same job better and the Rook doesn't offer anything signficantly different. Can you still use a Rook in PvP? Sure. Can you kill stuff in it? Sure. Would your FC prefer you in a Falcon? Definitely. Anyway this disucssion is supposed to be about the Ferox so this is my last post about other BCs.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.03 12:44:00 - [97] Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Dark Voynix Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 03/03/2009 10:39:58 You're supposed to fit blasters to a Brutix which use less grid than rails hence the small grid difference. Thing is you can fit everything you need on a Brutix quite happily, same goes for most Gallente ships. The Brutix is not harder to fit effectively than the Ferox though, not by a long shot. If so then we are talking about 2 completelly different roles, so they cannot be compared. And again: fit full rack of 250mm on a ferox is not harder that fit a full rack of neutron on a Brutix. Salvatore But ferox only has 6 turret slots while the brutix has 7 ,that is a huge difference. NO .. not at all!!! You are not considering the "grid problem". You are supposing that the brutix can easilly put 7x neutron blastersand the ferox just 6, but this in unpractical( for both ships). Most brutix setups downgrade at least partially to ion/electrons, to be able to put that damned 7th gun. And as i said before: Since brutix is an armour tanker it have less PG for guns than the ferox, so the one more gun it can put in theory, can be practically used only if you downgrade all ( almost) the turrets. Note: im not saying that have 7 turrets is bad, im just saying that the difference between ferox and brutix is quite ephemeral because of PG restriction. For blasters neutron --> ion is a minimall loss in range for rails 250mm -->200m is a huge setback for you optimal. Thats why you should aim for fitting 250mm rails not because of the dmg but optimal(which is a ferox should be good at). So brutix easily fit with 6*250mm rails+mwd ,while the ferox need 1 rcu to fit these, and your tank is still nowhere. Most rail ships can even fit a tank because they need sensor booster+tracking comp+ dmg mods in the low slots. Thats why your argument that the brutix needs more pg because of it is an armor tanker is wrong, ferox cant fit any tank at all. If you want to use the ferox with 200mm rails you are much better to fly a brutix with 250mm rails. Much better dmg ,same range, more drones and better overall ship stats. Thats why brutix is better than the ferox even in snipe range ,what shouldnt happen. Ferox needs a boost to be clearly better than the brutix in snipe range , just like the brutix is much better with blasters than the ferox.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.03 13:10:00 - [98] Quote: If you want to use the ferox with 200mm rails you are much better to fly a brutix with 250mm rails. Much better dmg ,same range, more drones and better overall ship stats. Thats why brutix is better than the ferox even in snipe range ,what shouldnt happen. Can I have what you're smoking? To fit 7x250mm Rails and nothing else, the Brutix pilot either requires a 5% PG implant or an RCU. That's with NO OTHER MODS FITTED. In this configuration, it does 150% of the DPS that a 6x250mm Ferox will do, but when using Spike the Ferox has a 97km optimal compared to the Brutix's 65km; that's one hell of a range difference, and is the difference between your anti support sniper sitting on his own between the battleships and the targets, or actually sitting in amongst the sniper battleships as the Ferox (and Vulture) can. The Brutix is not a better sniper than the Ferox, please stop with this crazy EFT warrioring and learn to fit. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2009.03.03 13:20:00 - [99] Edited by: The Djego on 03/03/2009 13:20:41 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: If you want to use the ferox with 200mm rails you are much better to fly a brutix with 250mm rails. Much better dmg ,same range, more drones and better overall ship stats. Thats why brutix is better than the ferox even in snipe range ,what shouldnt happen. Can I have what you're smoking? To fit 7x250mm Rails and nothing else, the Brutix pilot either requires a 5% PG implant or an RCU. That's with NO OTHER MODS FITTED. In this configuration, it does 150% of the DPS that a 6x250mm Ferox will do, but when using Spike the Ferox has a 97km optimal compared to the Brutix's 65km; that's one hell of a range difference, and is the difference between your anti support sniper sitting on his own between the battleships and the targets, or actually sitting in amongst the sniper battleships as the Ferox (and Vulture) can. The Brutix is not a better sniper than the Ferox, please stop with this crazy EFT warrioring and learn to fit. After outfitting it, you can have over 40km more Optimal with a Ferox(and the diffrence between hitting stuff at 100km and 150km is huge), more buffer(LSE + Resistance Bonus > pointless Armor Rep Bonus for Sniping). Also the Optimal Bonus Scrpts can be switched to Tracking in the TCs, what gives the Ferox at equal range a far better Tracking. So: + More Range + More Tracking at equal Range + More EHP + better Resisatances/bigger buffer for RR help or more time for warping out - 100 DPS less within 90km ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.03 13:45:00 - [100] Yes brutix is better sniper than the ferox. Oh and how can you snipe from bs snipe range (170km) with the ferox?you cant.
Dark Voynix Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:00:00 - [101] Originally by: Cletus Graeme Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 03/03/2009 12:03:59 Originally by: Dark Voynix NO .. not at all!!! You are not considering the "grid problem". You are supposing that the brutix can easilly put 7x neutron blastersand the ferox just 6, but this in unpractical( for both ships). Most brutix setups downgrade at least partially to ion/electrons, to be able to put that damned 7th gun. And as i said before: Since brutix is an armour tanker it have less PG for guns than the ferox, so the one more gun it can put in theory, can be practically used only if you downgrade all ( almost) the turrets. Note: im not saying that have 7 turrets is bad, im just saying that the difference between ferox and brutix is quite ephemeral because of PG restriction. The Brutix can easily fit a full rack of electron blasters and a very nice dual rep tank. It struggles to fit ions and can't fit neutrons. The Ferox can fit 250s and a tank with a single RCU. It can fit smaller guns quite easily so I think its grid is ok. However, its damage is pants. Adding a 7th turret without increasing the grid at all might be a balanced way to give it a boost as this would force you to either go for max damage+range (with 250s) and minimal/zero tank or drop down to 200mm rails to be able to fit a tank. This is pretty much the compromise that you currently need to make with the Eagle. That's exactly my point ... To make brutix a tanker you have to downsize your guns ( mix of electron/ion at best) and reduce the damage mods ( low slots are for tank), so is not like "having 1 more turret mean have 7/6 more damage. You can have one less turret slot but with better guns you can obtain almost the same DPS. I really don care if ferox have 6 or 7 turrets, my point was about the considerations made by some people about the lack of powergrid. Also one more consideration: brutix is a close range combat ship so its always fought back. On the other side having a sniper ferox that shoot from 150km even if have no tankor do redicolous damage, sually is out of fight back range for everyone exept sniper bs's. Considering all you see that ferox have a better survivability, so i dont understand why prople claim that's a crap ship.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.03 14:26:00 - [102] Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes brutix is better sniper than the ferox. Oh and how can you snipe from bs snipe range (170km) with the ferox?you cant. Seriously, what are you smoking? Even with FOUR TRACKING COMPUTERS RUNNING OPTIMAL SCRIPTS the Brutix maxes out at 95 optimal, 15 falloff. That's 0 DPS at 125km. The Ferox with NO TRACKING COMPUTERS hits 97 optimal and 15 falloff, meaning that without any tracking mods the Ferox will outdamage the Brutix at 125km. Add the same four optimal range tracking computers and you have 143km optimal and 15 falloff. The best possible range using all available slots and focusing on nothing else for a Brutix is 95km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 141km. The same principle applied to the Ferox gives 143km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 189km. It should also be noted that due to the Ferox having a resist bonus, it also has higher EHP in this same crazy pure sniper configuration. If we scale these setups back to try and balance range, DPS and EHP, the Ferox will win every single time. The Brutix only takes over once you drop within 75km of your targets. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2009.03.03 15:30:00 - [103] Ferox is good because: It costs as much as an assault frigate these days - while being 100% insurable. Resist bonus makes this a very tankable ship. Null ammo with blasters allows you to hit out to interceptor range. I wouldn't mind a 7th turret - although a utility slot on the ship means you can fit a NOS for pvp, or a cloak for 0.0 ratting. Should I get around to training up my leadership skills I'll definitely consider getting this ship a gang link with blasters. Important Internet Spaceship League Wants You
Kusum Fawn	Posted - 2009.03.03 15:34:00 - [104] Originally by: arbiter reformed lazor bonus tbh. lazor ferox is win As a curiosity, can you post this laser fit? really can you all post more fits, thats the best way you can all get your stories straight,
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.03 15:57:00 - [105] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 03/03/2009 15:58:20 [Ferox, Laser2 ] Damage Control II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2009.03.03 21:53:00 - [106] I am missing the hundreds of threads with questions like "What is a good setup for a Brutix or Cyclone?" and answers like "None, get a Ferox!"
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.04 00:46:00 - [107] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 00:48:05 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 00:47:25 Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 00:46:42 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes brutix is better sniper than the ferox. Oh and how can you snipe from bs snipe range (170km) with the ferox?you cant. Even with FOUR TRACKING COMPUTERS RUNNING OPTIMAL SCRIPTS the Brutix maxes out at 95 optimal, 15 falloff. That's 0 DPS at 125km. The Ferox with NO TRACKING COMPUTERS hits 97 optimal and 15 falloff, meaning that without any tracking mods the Ferox will outdamage the Brutix at 125km. Add the same four optimal range tracking computers and you have 143km optimal and 15 falloff. The best possible range using all available slots and focusing on nothing else for a Brutix is 95km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 141km. The same principle applied to the Ferox gives 143km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 189km. It should also be noted that due to the Ferox having a resist bonus, it also has higher EHP in this same crazy pure sniper configuration. If we scale these setups back to try and balance range, DPS and EHP, the Ferox will win every single time. The Brutix only takes over once you drop within 75km of your targets. 1,Why are u obsessed with 125km optimal? Is it a goal if you reach it your ship is awesome if not it sux? 2,Why is that 125km better than the 90km for brutix? 3,Ferox more ehp?Oh that is false and a lie. I always use a damage controll it is the best mod for buffer tank. When you fit it ,the brutix will have more ehp than the ferox , strange isnt it? Even without the dc the ferox only has 1.5k more ehp, it is neglectible. 4,Scale back to where? whats the point ,to bring out ferox better ? post your ferox fit and I will post a brutix fit which is better. 5,You will spend more shooting time sub 90km than between 90km and 125km. Especially when roaming or breaking enemy gate camp.
Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.03.04 02:40:00 - [108] Originally by: Cedric Diggory The Ferox with NO TRACKING COMPUTERS hits 97 optimal and 15 falloff, meaning that without any tracking mods the Ferox will outdamage the Brutix at 125km. Add the same four optimal range tracking computers and you have 143km optimal and 15 falloff. The best possible range using all available slots and focusing on nothing else for a Brutix is 95km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 141km. The same principle applied to the Ferox gives 143km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 189km. It should also be noted that due to the Ferox having a resist bonus, it also has higher EHP in this same crazy pure sniper configuration. Just to reiterate from page two: The main problem of the ship is the lack of logic in the range bonus (or how sweeping changes of game have affected hybrid weapons and platforms). There are a number of nominal engagement ranges in EVE (let's call it logical range). General scram/web ranges, general disruptor/bubble ranges, mid range, semi-sniper range and proper sniper warpable ranges. The main problem with the Ferox is that despite whatever weapon system you put on it, the bonus do not increase it an additional logical range. A Ferox with Blasters+Null, still operate in general scram/web range, a Ferox with 250mm+Spike boosted by an unreasonable amount of target comps, still do not reach sniper proper ranges. In regard to Cedric's argument here, a Ferox would need 2x SB (range + unscripted) to just land a lock at 150km. No matter how you tilt and turn, you don't have the slots to achieve that logical range you aim for with that crazy example of 4 TCs (without dropping speed mod, dps or using rigs). That also sum up the very same problem with the ship, bonus or weapon system. The next logical range is the semi-sniper max range of 100km, warp-in provided by the game and warp-out unavailable. To utilize and sort of logical advantage in range, you need the mobility to dictate it. You will warp in at either 100km or 150km+, and to utilize a 125km range, you will need to slowboat there. A Ferox doesn't do that well, especially not a Ferox without MWD, and fitting both 250mm II and an MWD poses further problems. If you make the right choice and instead look to specialize in semi-sniper to mid range, your Ferox do not really outperform a Brutix anymore. With Blasters: Both a Ferox and a Brutix are in scram range. With AM-ammo: Both a Ferox and a Brutix are in point range. As a semi-sniper: Both the Ferox and Brutix can work all predefined ranges. At 125km: None of the ships are effective, as you need to slowboat there (and dictate range). As a proper sniper: None of the ships work effectively If you consider Lisento Slaven's comment about a double range bonus (or if you simply look at Eagles and Vultures): With Blasters: A Ferox could operate in point range. With AM-ammo: A Ferox would be a semi-sniper (and could work the semi-sniper ranges). With a sniping setup: A Ferox could effectively hit 150km and be a proper sniper. Then it would make sense, but it would also mean a double bonus just to have a range bonus make sense (have logic). Which you could argue is paying twice for one essential bonus (and something that keep Eagles and Vultures from being good platforms). You can argue two angles, the ship bonus is bad or the weapon systems are bad (which then affect Gallente as well).
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.04 09:44:00 - [109] Originally by: Naomi Knight 1,Why are u obsessed with 125km optimal? Is it a goal if you reach it your ship is awesome if not it sux? Because that is the maximum possible range for a Brutix. This is an ad hominem; I'm not "obsessing" over a specific range, merely demonstrating why the Ferox's range bonus is doing it's job perfectly. At 125km the Brutix becomes useless, whereas the Ferox can still be configured to hit at beyond this range. Quote: 2,Why is that 125km better than the 90km for brutix? Sniper battleships will be between 150 & 200km from the gate. If you're at 90km, you're on your own with no support. If you're at 130km, you're both far enough from the snipers to assist with rails using high damage ammo if and when the snipers get dropped on, but close enough to also receive drone assistance/assist with drones. At 90km, the time it would take your drones to move in to assist (or vice versa) is much longer, and you're almost equidistant to the tacklers and snipers. Quote: 3,Ferox more ehp?Oh that is false and a lie. I always use a damage controll it is the best mod for buffer tank. When you fit it ,the brutix will have more ehp than the ferox , strange isnt it? Even without the dc the ferox only has 1.5k more ehp, it is neglectible. This is a straw man: I did not say the fit's included a damage control. If a damage control is your only tank, the Brutix has more EHP. If both rig for HP using a DC as their only tank module, the Ferox comes out on top again. Swings and roundabouts. Quote: 4,Scale back to where? whats the point ,to bring out ferox better ? post your ferox fit and I will post a brutix fit which is better. 5,You will spend more shooting time sub 90km than between 90km and 125km. Especially when roaming or breaking enemy gate camp. The purpose of the Ferox is to operate outwith the ranges other ships can, in other words between 125km & 175km. Fit appropriately! [Ferox, 250mm Rails] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M 250mm Railgun II, Spike M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:01:00 - [110] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 04/03/2009 12:05:03 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Originally by: Naomi Knight 1,Why are u obsessed with 125km optimal? Is it a goal if you reach it your ship is awesome if not it sux? Because that is the maximum possible range for a Brutix. This is an ad hominem; I'm not "obsessing" over a specific range, merely demonstrating why the Ferox's range bonus is doing it's job perfectly. At 125km the Brutix becomes useless, whereas the Ferox can still be configured to hit at beyond this range. Quote: 2,Why is that 125km better than the 90km for brutix? Sniper battleships will be between 150 & 200km from the gate. If you're at 90km, you're on your own with no support. If you're at 130km, you're both far enough from the snipers to assist with rails using high damage ammo if and when the snipers get dropped on, but close enough to also receive drone assistance/assist with drones. At 90km, the time it would take your drones to move in to assist (or vice versa) is much longer, and you're almost equidistant to the tacklers and snipers. 3, This is a straw man: I did not say the fit's included a damage control. If a damage control is your only tank, the Brutix has more EHP. If both rig for HP using a DC as their only tank module, the Ferox comes out on top again. Swings and roundabouts. Quote: 4,Scale back to where? whats the point ,to bring out ferox better ? post your ferox fit and I will post a brutix fit which is better. 5,You will spend more shooting time sub 90km than between 90km and 125km. Especially when roaming or breaking enemy gate camp. The purpose of the Ferox is to operate outwith the ranges other ships can, in other words between 125km & 175km. Fit appropriately! [Ferox, 250mm Rails] 3Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II 3Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range 2Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range 6250mm Railgun II, Spike M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile 3Core Defence Field Extender I Warrior II x5 1,So ferox is good because it can shoot farther than the brutix,even if that + optimal doesnt help it at all? As Noisrevbus said ferox doesn't get anything from its optimal bonust thats why it is flawled. 2, And how will you get to your 130km spot? Ask someone to make it for u, especailly as your fit doesnt have mwd? The brutix can warp to 70-100km to gate if there is no bubble or warp to other sniper hacs like the zealot or muninn or just 70km on sniper bs to work as an anti tackler. Much more possiblity than your ferox has. Oh and if your ferox is not farther than 100km then its optimal bonus is meaningless. Guess what, my brutix wont be primary,and possibly no enemy tacklers will come close to me,their targets are the battleships in a group not the lone brutix somewhere in the field. So possibly you wont need any assistance at all. And useing antimatter with your rails against tacklers?your setup will have 38km optimal 311dps the brutix with uranium has 35km opt 378dps, much better. Oh and the brutix can change to antimatter too ,yeah 24km opt. but 454dps ,see the difference? 3,Why would you put anything other than a damage contol up? and about rigs... omg 4,The range is not a goal,doing dmg to targets is your job, if you fly a damage support ship, by doing it from farther you wont do your job better. 5, If you want to use your rails in falloff range you are doing it wrong,its already low dps will be even smaller , thus you would be better off fling a rifter or other t1 crap frig. And your fit : -it has no mwd--> fail -it uses 3 rigs , each one costs around 14m isk, and only has a just noticable better ehp than without rigs ,making the use of rigs completly meaningless. Compare it to my brutix: [Brutix, noob setup] Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II 3Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II 2Tracking Computer II Sensor Booster II 7250mm Railgun
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:19:00 - [111] Originally by: Naomi Knight 1,So ferox is good because it can shoot farther than the brutix The Ferox doesn't need changed because it fits it's role. That role is being able to shoot further than the Brutix Quote: even if that + optimal doesnt help it at all? Greater range = better tracking. Get it? Quote: As Noisrevbus said ferox doesn't get anything from its optimal bonust thats why it is flawled. False and a lie. See above comment. Quote: And how will you get to your 130km spot? Ask someone to make it for u, especailly as your fit doesnt have mwd? You don't, you sit with the other sniper ships. The Brutix has to get closer than this, you do not. You are still useful right up beyond your first falloff, which is 150km. Quote: The brutix can warp to 70-100km to gate if there is no bubble or warp to other sniper hacs like the zealot or muninn or just 70km on sniper bs to work as an anti tackler. Much more possiblity than your ferox has. Oh and if your ferox is not farther than 100km then its optimal bonus is meaningless. Bingo. Brutix is a midrange sniper, not a sniper platform. It should sit with the Beam Zealots and other high damage, high risk HACs. Ferox sits with the snipers. Quote: Guess what, my brutix wont be primary You say this like you think the Ferox will be? Quote: and possibly no enemy tacklers will come close to me,their targets are the battleships in a group not the lone brutix somewhere in the field. So possibly you wont need any assistance at all. You're also going to provide very little assistance to those battleships, and if an inty does decide to come mess your day up, you're going to be dying a slow an humiliating death alone at 75km. Quote: And useing antimatter with your rails against tacklers?your setup will have 38km optimal 311dps the brutix with uranium has 35km opt 378dps, much better. Oh and the brutix can change to antimatter too ,yeah 24km opt. but 454dps ,see the difference? Yes... the brutix does more damage. That's its role. The Ferox has more range, that is ITS role. As discussed, range = tracking. Extra range on AM means better tracking on targets if your targets fall within close range ammo optimal-falloff, which as your role is anti support makes the Ferox more useful. It's a moot point; at 75km from the field and 75km from the snipers, the Brutix will always be using the same ammo. Quote: Why would you put anything other than a damage contol up? and about rigs... omg You're pretty dumb, has anyone ever told you that? it's not the Brutix that fares better: Gallente ships have more hull than the other races so they always win the "I has EHP with DC!" war. Quote: The range is not a goal,doing dmg to targets is your job, if you fly a damage support ship, by doing it from farther you wont do your job better Tracking, tracking, tracking, tracking and tracking. Am I getting through to you? Range = Tracking! Quote: If you want to use your rails in falloff range you are doing it wrong,its already low dps will be even smaller , thus you would be better off fling a rifter or other t1 crap frig. It's perfectly good form to use railguns within the first falloff. Quote: And your fit : -it has no mwd--> fail -it uses 3 rigs , each one costs around 14m isk, and only has a just noticable better ehp than without rigs ,making the use of rigs completly meaningless. The rigs were for comparison to an equivalently rigged Brutix. They were there to demonstrate the point about EHP that you completely failed to notice as the foam coming out of your mouth has begun to obscure your eyes. Also, given that the Ferox sits with the sniper battleships, an MWD is not in the slightest bit necessary: That's the folly of wannabe-sniper ships like the Brutix. Snipers align out, they do not need a microwarpdrive. How many sniper battleship fits do YOU know with a MWD? --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:30:00 - [112] OMG all I mean ALL your senteces are wrong and false. Could somebody point out to him how stupid his post is ? He just wont listen to me... Even his sentences contradict to his other sentence some line over them. Jesus.
Diomidis Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.04 12:57:00 - [113] I wish ppl could learn to fly their ships better and optimize their skills better than all these EFT warriors seeking nothing but "optimal" situations and fittings... I've heard all the complains I read in here about the Ferox, for the Brutix and the Deimos etc...surely, there are better gang ships than these...but it's not like Caldari, nor Gallente have better turret BCs, do they? It's not that the Eagle is the best sniper, nor the best blaster platform, yet does that make it useless or a shame to use? The Ferox is cheap, and with decent skills it's not disappointing as a close range blaster ship. Additionally it can be fit for sniping out to decent "mid-sized" turret ranges = less than 150km. Only the Eagle and the Cerb can shoot past that range, both requiring a lot of ISK and a lot of skills above those the Ferox requires, leading to more fragile and seriously specialized fits. The Prophecy vs. Harbinger argument is totally different, as both those ships are more or less meant for laser turrets, while the Brutix and the Ferox are the only ships in their racial class specifically meant for turrets. As most amarrian vessels, those are too straightforward: Gank = Harbi, Tank = Prophecy. And above their low price tags, some ships like the Cyclone, the Ferox and the Prophecy have the huge advantage of being hugely underestimated by the enemy... Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game!
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.04 13:11:00 - [114] Originally by: Naomi Knight OMG all I mean ALL your senteces are wrong and false. Could somebody point out to him how stupid his post is ? He just wont listen to me... Even his sentences contradict to his other sentence some line over them. Jesus. It's OK, I'll accept your submission. At the end of the day you're forgetting what the old 5/5 turret/missile Ferox used to be like which is scandalous, as it's not been long since they gave the Ferox & Moa their extra turret slot. It's a wonderful turret ship, and your arguments are based around comparison to what is without a shadow of a doubt the best of the tier one battlecruisers - the Brutix. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Ponies4ever	Posted - 2009.03.04 15:55:00 - [115] What about decreasing damage for all railguns by 5 or 10%, increase the range with 25% and change the range bonus caldari rail ships get to a damage bonus? :D
Noix Arikani	Posted - 2009.03.04 16:47:00 - [116] I took down a raven with a Ferox on sisi but the ferox is still very underpowered
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.03.04 17:08:00 - [117] My favourite roaming pvp ship was the Ferox... and that was back in 2007 when it only had 5 turrets rather than 6. Should probably fit another one out. Nothing draws targets to you like being a blinker in a Ferox. - Originally by: The Cuckoo Good luck in defending idiotic and greedy noobs, as far as I'm concerned, you are their champion.
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.03.05 05:18:00 - [118] Edited by: Heloise ChateauBriande on 05/03/2009 05:20:56 Camilo, Care to share some fits, strategies or something? I like the look of the Ferox and want to start flying it some more. - Helo
Tagami Wasp	Posted - 2009.03.05 07:41:00 - [119] [Ferox, Blasterox] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Photon Scattering Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M Ancillary Current Router I Capacitor Control Circuit I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Warrior II x5 Should you be able to fit that, it's around 400 dps before overheating. Lasts for 14 mins. Only 46K EHP and MWD will drain yopu in about 2 mins. However, if you can apply 400dps at approximately 15Km, then a 35K EHP ship (like most HACs), should be dead and you should be lighting the victory cigar. Oh. you need to pulse that MWD. but a EFT warrior can do it, right? P.S. The Assault Launcher must be there, fits with the ships name. see SHP
Camilo Cienfuegos Earned In Blood	Posted - 2009.03.05 09:13:00 - [120] Cheap and simple setup. Works out to about 450 DPS, 60k EHP and nicely balanced resists. If you want to blow the budget, rig for shield extenders. It's also worth noting that due to the range bonus, this is one of the few medium turret ships that performs well using null ammo. [Ferox, Roaming Blasters] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II Invulnerability Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Piranha Light Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hornet EC-300 x5 - Originally by: The Cuckoo Good luck in defending idiotic and greedy noobs, as far as I'm concerned, you are their champion.
welsh wizard 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.03.05 10:28:00 - [121] Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/03/2009 10:30:23 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Originally by: Naomi Knight Yes brutix is better sniper than the ferox. Oh and how can you snipe from bs snipe range (170km) with the ferox?you cant. Seriously, what are you smoking? Even with FOUR TRACKING COMPUTERS RUNNING OPTIMAL SCRIPTS the Brutix maxes out at 95 optimal, 15 falloff. That's 0 DPS at 125km. The Ferox with NO TRACKING COMPUTERS hits 97 optimal and 15 falloff, meaning that without any tracking mods the Ferox will outdamage the Brutix at 125km. Add the same four optimal range tracking computers and you have 143km optimal and 15 falloff. The best possible range using all available slots and focusing on nothing else for a Brutix is 95km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 141km. The same principle applied to the Ferox gives 143km optimal + 23km falloff for 0 dps at 189km. It should also be noted that due to the Ferox having a resist bonus, it also has higher EHP in this same crazy pure sniper configuration. If we scale these setups back to try and balance range, DPS and EHP, the Ferox will win every single time. The Brutix only takes over once you drop within 75km of your targets. What exactly are you planning on shooting with spike at those ranges? Stations? It doesn't track anything that a Ferox has a hope of destroying at those kinds of ranges. If you're going to compare the ships as support snipers you need to come waaaay down to CN Tungsten range. So this statement: Quote: Bingo. Brutix is a midrange sniper, not a sniper platform. It should sit with the Beam Zealots and other high damage, high risk HACs. Ferox sits with the snipers. Is false, the Ferox cannot sit with the BS snipers and fulfill its role. You're talking 115km max. --------------- RIP Crazy Horse
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.05 10:39:00 - [122] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 05/03/2009 10:40:14 Quote: Is false, the Ferox cannot sit with the BS snipers and fulfill its role. You're talking 115km max. You're talking *****s. 125km is the theoretical max of the Brutix, 189km is the theoretical max of the Ferox. Quote: What exactly are you planning on shooting with spike at those ranges? Stations? It doesn't track anything that a Ferox has a hope of destroying at those kinds of ranges. If you're going to compare the ships as support snipers you need to come waaaay down to CN Tungsten range. At 150km, you'd be amazed how well it tracks. Fire up SiSi and try it if you don't believe me. --- Originally by:** 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
welsh wizard 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.03.05 10:46:00 - [123] Give it a rest mate, I've flown Eagles for years and Spike M doesn't even track moving frigates/dictors at 230km nevermind 140km. Sure, you may get the odd fortunate volley when their transversal is low but otherwise it isn't happening. Flying without an mwd aswell... No. --------------- RIP Crazy Horse
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.05 11:36:00 - [124] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 05/03/2009 11:38:04 Quote: Spike M doesn't even track moving frigates/dictors at 230km nevermind 140km. Sure, you may get the odd fortunate volley when their transversal is low but otherwise it isn't happening. Flying without an mwd aswell... No. Appeal to Authority? Doesn't cut it. Your previous post also contained the fallacy "moving the goalposts", but I let that slide. Even so that problem isn't with the Ferox, but with medium railgun ammo. The Brutix trying to use Spike would suffer exactly the same problems. As for flying without an MWD... Not flown many Amarr ships, huh? --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
welsh wizard 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.03.05 22:00:00 - [125] Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/03/2009 22:04:20 Erm, yeah actually, I fly all sub-BS amarr ships (apart from the electronic frigates). I'm guessing you're referring to the Geddon and the Retribution, neither of which are particuarly suited to sniping? All the other Amarr ships can pack an mwd easily enough. Whats your point? Wrt the Ferox I was stating that using spike as a benchmark for comparing sub-bs fleet snipers is contrary to their role. Not entirely sure why you consider that to be "shifting the goalposts" when the thread is about the Ferox' damage output. Fact is, spike doesn't work consistently against the Ferox' preferable target. --------------- RIP Crazy Horse
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.06 02:21:00 - [126] How about a bonus to the effectiveness of tracking computers for the ferox instead of a resist bonus? --- Put in space whales!
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.06 02:39:00 - [127] Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/03/2009 02:39:22 Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen 7th turret + more fitting to actually squese it in could do the trick. Even now Ferox is extremely PG-deficient. This really. Would make Ferox a nice ship. The extra PG to fit a gang link even better. As for the resistance bonus, no its a good bonus and should stay.
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.06 02:45:00 - [128] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 06/03/2009 02:39:22 Originally by: Saietor Blackgreen 7th turret + more fitting to actually squese it in could do the trick. Even now Ferox is extremely PG-deficient. This really. Would make Ferox a nice ship. The extra PG to fit a gang link even better. As for the resistance bonus, no its a good bonus and should stay. I think there could be a better bonus to replace it. Even another stupid optimal range bonus would be better. Let it shoot past 150km reliably. --- Put in space whales!
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2009.03.06 04:37:00 - [129] Tagami, The Assault launcher reduces the spread of heat through the high slots right? Is that what you meant about its placement? - Helo P.S. Fit looks good I may try it.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.06 10:03:00 - [130] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 05/03/2009 22:08:12 Erm, yeah, I fly all sub-BS amarr ships (apart from the electronic frigates). I'm guessing you're referring to the Geddon and the Retribution, neither of which are particuarly suited to sniping? All the other Amarr snipers can pack an mwd easily enough. Whats your point? Look at the Cruisers. Omen lacks the PG to fit even FMP and a MWD, Maller can fit the MWD with FMP but does zero damage as it's a tank-bonused ship. Prophecy has the same problems as the Maller, then there's the Geddon. Then there's the Absolution, which regularly is flown without a MWD. As for sniping, my point was that there can be no comparison: Caldari are the only race to receive turret bonuses specifically aimed at sniping. The point also remains: How many sniper fits do you know that fit a MWD? Quote: Wrt the Ferox I was stating that using spike as a benchmark for comparing sub-bs fleet snipers is contrary to their role. Not entirely sure why you consider that to be "shifting the goalposts" when the thread is about the Ferox' damage output. Fact is, spike doesn't work consistently against the Ferox' preferable target. It's shifting the goalposts because it entails discussion over the state of Spike M, which is outwith the scope of this topic. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Tzeriz	Posted - 2009.03.07 13:09:00 - [131] Kinda have to agree on this post, Ferox could really use a 7th turret to be made a proper Battlecruiser, instead of the joke it currently is, Brutix has 50m3 dronebay compared to the Ferox 25m3 dronebay aswell, and apart from that the ships are pretty indentical minus the bonuses they get, and the fact that Ferox only has 6 turrets compared to the 7 Brutix has. And bigger drone bay/bandwidth as mentioned above:S Ferox + 1 turret Hardpoint please.
Kissapasi Kissapasi Corporation Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.07 14:37:00 - [132] [Ferox, Bad Boy Setup] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Medium Nosferatu II Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 --- Nearly 500 dps, ability to hit to 20km+ with pretty good damage, ~80k ehp, ~150dps passive tank. I really fail to see the point of op, ferox is totally fine especially while it costs 20m in the market. I suggest everyone start stockpiling them immediately for cheap price before clueless people start realizing how good they in fact are.
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.07 16:30:00 - [133] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 07/03/2009 16:32:45 Originally by: Kissapasi [Ferox, Bad Boy Setup] Nearly 500 dps, ability to hit to 20km+ with pretty good damage, ~80k ehp, ~150dps passive tank. I really fail to see the point of op, ferox is totally fine especially while it costs 20m in the market. The tank is very impressive but your DPS numbers are misleading. That setup with ALL LVL 5 SKILLS does only 455 DPS (including drones) when using AN MF which gives you an optimal of only 7km To be able to hit at 20km you must use Scorch which drops the DPS to 383. With equivalent skills a (1600mm plated) armor tanked Harbinger fitted with Focused Pulse lasers but only 2 Heat Sinks (i.e using 1 LESS damage mod) does 620 DPS with AN MF (same optimal) and 527 DPS with Scorch (same optimal). The Harbi can use medium drones so this is with Hammerhead IIs instead of Hobgoblin IIs. It has about 60k EHP. Also the setup you suggested will cost a lot more than the 20mill you paid for the ship. T2 mods and rigs will bring the total cost (ship + mods) to around 80mill. If you're going to fit a BC with rigs that cost 15mill each then spending an extra 15mill to buy a Harbinger instead makes more sense to me.
Kissapasi Kissapasi Corporation Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.07 18:34:00 - [134] Edited by: Kissapasi on 07/03/2009 18:35:54 Originally by: Cletus Graeme The tank is very impressive but your DPS numbers are misleading. That setup with ALL LVL 5 SKILLS does only 455 DPS (including drones) when using AN MF which gives you an optimal of only 7km To be able to hit at 20km you must use Scorch which drops the DPS to 383. With equivalent skills a (1600mm plated) armor tanked Harbinger fitted with Focused Pulse lasers but only 2 Heat Sinks (i.e using 1 LESS damage mod) does 620 DPS with AN MF (same optimal) and 527 DPS with Scorch (same optimal). The Harbi can use medium drones so this is with Hammerhead IIs instead of Hobgoblin IIs. It has about 60k EHP. Also the setup you suggested will cost a lot more than the 20mill you paid for the ship. T2 mods and rigs will bring the total cost (ship + mods) to around 80mill. If you're going to fit a BC with rigs that cost 15mill each then spending an extra 15mill to buy a Harbinger instead makes more sense to me. 5% Medium energy turret hardwiring is dirt cheap, so is 3% turret ROF/DAM. Use them. Harbinger is very powerful especially if you got slave implants, but Ferox has some advatanges over it: 1. Passive recharge, some people might appreciate self regenerating buffer instead of needing to dock and repair every time after combat if no remote repairing is present. 2. Passive recharge also works as a tank, a 150 dps peak on 80k buffer makes Ferox last long time especially if incoming dps is low. 3. If you got skills, you can overheat the invulnerablity field for some extra buffer/tank. 4. It's a Ferox, almost nobody will primary a Ferox. 5. Works even without rigs which will make the price difference even higher. You can also rig it with resistance rigs which are dirt cheap and still maintain a buffer tank of ~70k for a price of a plain Harbinger.
Cletus Graeme Caldari Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.07 20:40:00 - [135] Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 07/03/2009 20:42:33 Originally by: Kissapasi 5% Medium energy turret hardwiring is dirt cheap, so is 3% turret ROF/DAM. Use them. I do, however, you neglected to mention them in your setup. In any case, they would just boost the DPS of both ships so the comparison still stands. In case you missed it, my point was that a tank fitted Harbi easily outdamages a laser Ferox even when fitted with one less damage mod. A gank Harbi would do about double the DPS (but have a very poor tank)! Why use a laser Ferox with it's medicore DPS when you can use a Harbi and actually do some serious damage? Originally by: Kissapasi 1. Passive recharge, some people might appreciate self regenerating buffer instead of needing to dock and repair every time after combat if no remote repairing is present. Originally by: Cletus Graeme The tank is very impressive A 1600mm plated Harbi can fit a MAR and Cap Injector so repairing is not an issue until you run out of 800s. Most fights don't last that long :) Originally by: Kissapasi 2. Passive recharge also works as a tank, a 150 dps peak on 80k buffer makes Ferox last long time especially if incoming dps is low. Originally by: Cletus Graeme The tank is very impressive If the incoming dps is low (e.g 150dps) then most tanks can handle it anyway. Originally by: Kissapasi 3. If you got skills, you can overheat the invulnerablity field for some extra buffer/tank. Originally by: Cletus Graeme The tank is very impressive You can also overheat a MAR. Originally by: Kissapasi 4. It's a Ferox, almost nobody will primary a Ferox. Originally by: Cletus Graeme The tank is very impressive Obvious question: what exactly is the point of such an impressive tank if nobody will primary you? Originally by: Kissapasi 5. Works even without rigs which will make the price difference even higher. You can also rig it with resistance rigs which are dirt cheap and still maintain a buffer tank of ~70k for a price of a plain Harbinger. Shield rigs are indeed much cheaper than Armor rigs and the Ferox is cheaper than the Harbi so COST is the most sensible reason to use a Ferox instead but tbh, i'd rather spend more ISK and be more useful to my gang. You can passively shield tank the Harbi too if you really want to but its shield tank is pretty poor so it's a bad idea when solo or in a small gang. IMO the Ferox needs to be a good SNIPER to be worth using in PvP. If it does this well then it doesn't need changing. If it doesn't then maybe it needs a boost.
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.03.07 21:07:00 - [136] Edited by: Dibsi Dei on 07/03/2009 21:07:14 Don't compare tier 1 battlecruisers with tier 2.
Graalum Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.07 21:15:00 - [137] Originally by: Kissapasi 4. It's a Ferox, almost nobody will primary a Ferox. since noone shoots feroxes, we should all fly feroxes right? Then no one will get primaried. and then we can live in lollypop land and sing songs.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.07 22:47:00 - [138] Quote: Why use a laser Ferox with it's medicore DPS when you can use a Harbi and actually do some serious damage? Because tier one != tier two. Comparisons between tiers fail; compare the laser Ferox to the Prophecy/Brutix/Cyclone and then come back to this discussion. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.07 23:13:00 - [139] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Look at the Cruisers. Omen lacks the PG to fit even FMP and a MWD, Maller can fit the MWD with FMP but does zero damage as it's a tank-bonused ship. Prophecy has the same problems as the Maller, then there's the Geddon. Then there's the Absolution, which regularly is flown without a MWD. I don't know about you, but i regularly get an MWD, LSE, and 5 FMP II's on an Omen with room to spare. The maller is not terrible because of its fitting, ditto the Prophecy. The geddon in a pulse fit fits an MWD easily enough as does the Absolution fit an MWD for everything. Quote: As for sniping, my point was that there can be no comparison: Caldari are the only race to receive turret bonuses specifically aimed at sniping Besides the Apoc, and tech 2 Amarr and Minmatar Quote: The point also remains: How many sniper fits do you know that fit a MWD? All of them Quote: It's shifting the goalposts because it entails discussion over the state of Spike M, which is outwith the scope of this topic. No, it doesn't. If you're shooting larger ships you want to be in something that is going to do more damage. Battleships are just fine for shooting cruisers, load up T1 ammo and go to town. Cruiser sized ships are best for shooting frigates since others cannot hit the smaller/faster ships well enough. To do this best they fit tech 1/faction ammo and not tech 2 ammo because the tracking penalty on the tech 2 ammo prohibits the ship from doing its job. Saying "you're using the wrong ammo" does not mean that you have to discuss the state of spike M, you're still simply discussing what the ship's job is and what it does best.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.07 23:27:00 - [140] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Because tier one != tier two. Comparisons between tiers fail; compare the laser Ferox to the Prophecy/Brutix/Cyclone and then come back to this discussion. Lol . Ferox is good because, if you use pulses it has better stats than the other tier 1 bcs? You cant be this stupid...
Shereza	Posted - 2009.03.08 00:47:00 - [141] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Cedric Diggory Because tier one != tier two. Comparisons between tiers fail; compare the laser Ferox to the Prophecy/Brutix/Cyclone and then come back to this discussion. Lol . Ferox is good because, if you use pulses it has better stats than the other tier 1 bcs? You cant be this stupid... I think you missed the point that Diggory was trying to make in that any situation where you compare a tier 1 ship, regardless of setup, to a tier 2 ship with a similar setup the inherent differences between the ship tiers will significantly skew the results. It has nothing to do with whether or not a laser using ferox is good. That aside, let's face it. If a ship can perform in a non-main role in a good to superb fashion, even sometimes to the point of surpassing a ship dedicated to said "non-main role," then I'd say that ship is fairly good. For that matter, given similar loadouts the laser ferox does about as well as the prophecy. From a PvE perspective and given similar loadouts he prophecy has better cap stability, approximately 10% more velocity, and has 20-50% more eHP while maintaining a higher sustained tank while the ferox actually does more rDPS, has a superior maximum tank, and marginally superior agility. With the fact that both ships have the same drone bay size the launcher the ferox can fit allows it to also exceed the prophecy in eDPS as well as rDPS. I can't say how the ferox stacks up to the brutix as a blaster boat or the cyclone as an ugly boat (um, what does the cyclone do in missions?) but if it can pinch hit for a prophecy then that easily says one, or both, of two things. The ferox is a decent to good ship and/or the prophecy seriously sucks. ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 01:12:00 - [142] It only says : prophecy sux cyclone too , fitting ferox with pulses is stupid, you can shoot for like 1.5 mins, oh comeon that's nothing.
Leyvan Stand Vyritza	Posted - 2009.03.08 01:26:00 - [143] I don't know about the ferox, but looking at how much the different ships are being used, I think that all tier1 BCs needs a slight buff. I have'nt seen a single proph or cyclone the last half year actually, that should tell us something. Brutix? don't know. but probably needs buff Ferox? almost noone uses, needs buff Proph? noone uses it, needs buff Cyclone? noone uses it, needs buff I mean, what looking at how underused the ships are it should be quite obvious they're in need of change. Amarr has 3 BS, how comes people are using ALL 3 of them alot instead of only using the 'baddon? Fittings? Wait oke, Proph has armor bonus so it should be better or AT LEAST at par with the harb in a more tank-focused fitting right? But I'm do remember multiple people posting that the Harb even outdoes it at that. The posters here says "okay they are fine", but how comes they are'nt being used at all?
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 01:31:00 - [144] Quote: It only says : prophecy sux cyclone too , fitting ferox with pulses is stupid, you can shoot for like 1.5 mins, oh comeon that's nothing. Or it says the Brutix is overpowered in a specific role, and you haven't yet figured out how to use your Ferox properly? --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
DARTHxFREE Aliastra	Posted - 2009.03.08 01:43:00 - [145] Edited by: DARTHxFREE on 08/03/2009 01:44:00 [Ferox, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hobgoblin II x5 Don't flt solo 572dps cheap as a chip and serves it's purpose /join Cheeze & Whine Club
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 09:42:00 - [146] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: It only says : prophecy sux cyclone too , fitting ferox with pulses is stupid, you can shoot for like 1.5 mins, oh comeon that's nothing. Or it says the Brutix is overpowered in a specific role, and you haven't yet figured out how to use your Ferox properly? No. The brutix is good the other 3 tier 1 bc need boost. And a brutix is much more useable than the ferox even when rail fitted.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 13:14:00 - [147] Quote: No. The brutix is good the other 3 tier 1 bc need boost. And a brutix is much more useable than the ferox even when rail fitted. Repeating this over and over like a mantra doesn't make it any more accurate. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:12:00 - [148] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: No. The brutix is good the other 3 tier 1 bc need boost. And a brutix is much more useable than the ferox even when rail fitted. Repeating this over and over like a mantra doesn't make it any more accurate. It is you who are repeating that : ferox can hit enemy at 150km so it is fine statement.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:18:00 - [149] Quote: It is you who are repeating that : ferox can hit enemy at 150km so it is fine statement. Am I? I think you have a bit of the old "selective comprehension" going on there... I've put down several different reasons why the Ferox doesn't need special attention. On the other hand, all I've seen you really post is "WAAAH! I can't figure out how to fit a ship that isn't min/maxed!" --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:22:00 - [150] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 08/03/2009 14:21:56 Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: It is you who are repeating that : ferox can hit enemy at 150km so it is fine statement. Am I? I think you have a bit of the old "selective comprehension" going on there... I've put down several different reasons why the Ferox doesn't need special attention. On the other hand, all I've seen you really post is "WAAAH! I can't figure out how to fit a ship that isn't min/maxed!" So you say i should fit the ferox like your fit? because you havent wrote anything else about it. And everybody can tell you that setup is a fail. No mwd ,3 rigs ....
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 14:47:00 - [151] Quote: So you say i should fit the ferox like your fit? because you havent wrote anything else about it. And everybody can tell you that setup is a fail. No mwd ,3 rigs .... Let me spell it out for you, as you're clearly not very good at the whole interpretation "thing": The Ferox is fine. This is demonstrated by comparing unbonused weapon systems on the Ferox against the same weapon systems on other tier one battlecruiers. This leads to only one possible conclusion that explains why you're convinced that the Brutix is so much better; The problem is in fact with Railguns. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 15:49:00 - [152] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: So you say i should fit the ferox like your fit? because you havent wrote anything else about it. And everybody can tell you that setup is a fail. No mwd ,3 rigs .... Let me spell it out for you, as you're clearly not very good at the whole interpretation "thing": The Ferox is fine. This is demonstrated by comparing unbonused weapon systems on the Ferox against the same weapon systems on other tier one battlecruiers. This leads to only one possible conclusion that explains why you're convinced that the Brutix is so much better; The problem is in fact with Railguns. The demonstration was wrong, so it doesnt support your Ferox is fine motto.
achoura	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:09:00 - [153] Tier one bc being sub-par to tier 2 aside, the ferox is a sniper and it does this well, more effectively that the ti moa, less effectively than the tii eagle/vulture. It is in essence, a mini rokh and used as such, is fine although stats wise it'll never be as good as a tier 2 bc, that's an inherent problem. The idea of adding a 7th turret to the ferox was gone over in detail in the gd forum (where it would actually have some effect) when ccp added one to the moa, and changed nothing. In any case, it does something no other bc dos with tbh, is more than the cyclone/proph do but the only serious bc sniper is the vulter, as always. *The EVE servers and their patches*
Kaileen Starsong Amarr Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.03.08 16:37:00 - [154] Originally by: achoura Tier one bc being sub-par to tier 2 aside, the ferox is a sniper and it does this well, more effectively that the ti moa, less effectively than the tii eagle/vulture. It is in essence, a mini rokh and used as such, is fine although stats wise it'll never be as good as a tier 2 bc, that's an inherent problem. The idea of adding a 7th turret to the ferox was gone over in detail in the gd forum (where it would actually have some effect) when ccp added one to the moa, and changed nothing. In any case, it does something no other bc dos with tbh, is more than the cyclone/proph do but the only serious bc sniper is the vulter, as always. Don't be silly, Ferox got his 6th turret added the very same moment Moa got additional turret.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 17:49:00 - [155] Quote: The demonstration was wrong, so it doesnt support your Ferox is fine motto. Repeating the same tired thing page after page doesn't make it any more accurate. You failed to demonstrate your own arguments, and have the audacity to come out with rubbish like this? You do so make my lol Naomi. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 19:22:00 - [156] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: The demonstration was wrong, so it doesnt support your Ferox is fine motto. Repeating the same tired thing page after page doesn't make it any more accurate. You failed to demonstrate your own arguments, and have the audacity to come out with rubbish like this? You do so make my lol Naomi. I've proved how the brutix is better then the ferox up to 100km. The ferox only better between 100-130km ,over 130km the ferox become useless , nearly 0 dps. And shooting at 100-130km doesnt better than shooting 80-100km you cant realy use that + optimal to your advantage.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 21:56:00 - [157] Quote: I've proved how the brutix is better then the ferox up to 100km. The ferox only better between 100-130km ,over 130km the ferox become useless , nearly 0 dps. And shooting at 100-130km doesnt better than shooting 80-100km you cant realy use that + optimal to your advantage. Don't make me tell you again why the Ferox can hit 150km away. What you've failed to realise Naomi is that the comparison you are making is true of every single tier one battlecruiers versus the Brutix. The Ferox cannot be imbalanced if it compares favourably - and indeed it does - to the majority of ships in it's class. Given this fact, there's only one outcome: The Brutix is the problem and the Ferox is fine. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:16:00 - [158] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: I've proved how the brutix is better then the ferox up to 100km. The ferox only better between 100-130km ,over 130km the ferox become useless , nearly 0 dps. And shooting at 100-130km doesnt better than shooting 80-100km you cant realy use that + optimal to your advantage. Don't make me tell you again why the Ferox can hit 150km away. What you've failed to realise Naomi is that the comparison you are making is true of every single tier one battlecruiers versus the Brutix. The Ferox cannot be imbalanced if it compares favourably - and indeed it does - to the majority of ships in it's class. Given this fact, there's only one outcome: The Brutix is the problem and the Ferox is fine. It can shoot at 150km and do like 60dps? Thats right it will have around 60dps+ minimal tank. So your conclusion is wrong, it is the brutix which is fine and the other 3 tier 1 bcs are weak.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:28:00 - [159] Quote: So your conclusion is wrong, it is the brutix which is fine and the other 3 tier 1 bcs are weak. 25% are right and 75% are wrong? Your logic is astounding. --- Originally by: 7shining7one7 a) there are no conspiracies whatsoever b) those who believe there are are nuts
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.08 23:32:00 - [160] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Quote: So your conclusion is wrong, it is the brutix which is fine and the other 3 tier 1 bcs are weak. 25% are right and 75% are wrong? Your logic is astounding. So if you look only at stealthbombers they are all right because more or less all are the same?
Lisento Slaven The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.03.09 02:16:00 - [161] Originally by: Naomi Knight It can shoot at 150km and do like 60dps? Thats right it will have around 60dps+ minimal tank. So your conclusion is wrong, it is the brutix which is fine and the other 3 tier 1 bcs are weak. Actually with my skills I can get the Ferox to do 145 DPS at 145km optimal with 14km falloff. Doesn't mean it will actually hit the target...it probably will depending on the size of it. 22k EHP. No rigs at all. --- Put in space whales!
General Paul Atomic Heroes Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.03.09 02:46:00 - [162] anyone mind posting a good vulture snipe fit between ferox ramblings ? I fit mine with blasters for the lulz currently
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.09 05:38:00 - [163] The Ferox actually isn't that bad with blasters, it doesn't do the DPS that the brutix does, and it doesn't have the ewar versatility, but for pure gank/tank? Pretty decent, it even gets a bonus because people will underestimate you. E.G. [Ferox, Blasters] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Bloodclaw Light Missile Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Hobgoblin II x5 570 DPS, 67k EHP, 118 dps regen. A brutix will be only slightly breaking that(and shield rigs are much cheaper than armor rigs) but will do it with a web and 24km point. On the other hand, the Brutix should be better, so complaining that the Ferox isn't is kinda weak in that regard. As a sniper, the increased range of the Ferox is very valuable. And its DPS is comparable to about 80km on its ideal targets under which its very hard to hit those ideal targets anyway.

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