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LynxHUN
Caldari
Ten Below Zero
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:01:00 -
[1]
I have sent a following bugreport and got some answer. Please let us know your opinion as well.
Hi,
The shield bonus skill which supposed to give shield hp bonus ( siege warfare ), still buged. Its give only bonus for the maximum possible shield hp but let the current hp down unlike the armor bonus. Eg.: 10k shield +lvl5 bonus you should have 11k of 11k shield but you will have only 10k of 11k. This bonus in its current state is fully useless. Please fix it as soon as possible.
Thank you!
Lynx
// This is by design as shields have a natural recharge where as armor doesnŠt.
// Regards, [BH] JAFBH
"This is by design as shields have a natural recharge where as armor doesnŠt."
Ah yes, to recharge shield from 91+ to 100 will take about 3-6 mins, depend on the ship and the fitt. And when we jump trough the gate, right into the midle of a fight, this bounus is fully useless. I saw people to lost thier ship becouse of this, while an armor tanked ship survived.
Lynx
// Thank you for the update. As previously stated, this is by design. Please create
// thread on the game development forums to debate the design if you wish to do so.
// BH Osmotic
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Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:11:00 -
[2]
Do you want our opinion on the response of the BH, or on the idea of making the shield bonus the same to the armor one.
The bug hunters response is perfectly valid, it is probably working however CCP designed it to be.
As for the idea of making the shield bonus the same as the armor bonus, I like it. Not game breaking but it will definitely help gangs who are jumping into hostile camps. Which is something you generally want to avoid unless you have superior numbers...
_
Add your own line! |
AshtarDJ
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:15:00 -
[3]
/Signed
While you're at it, make the remote shield transporter have the same fitting requirements as the remote armour repairer. It's hard enough to get ppl to actually want to fit one, why should it be harder to do it?
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JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
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Posted - 2009.03.02 15:40:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: AshtarDJ
/Signed
While you're at it, make the remote shield transporter have the same fitting requirements as the remote armour repairer. It's hard enough to get ppl to actually want to fit one, why should it be harder to do it?
Would love to see this implemented 
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Ravenal
The Fated
E.Y
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Posted - 2009.03.02 16:14:00 -
[5]
you forget that you do get an immediate bonus. Your passive recharge increases from the time you get the bonus. This means the optimal recharge of passive ships is higher while the extra buffer gained by the bonus is missing - in the case of passive shield tanked ships it is of smaller consequence.
granted, it is not a big bonus - but it is worth mentioning in the context of this thread.
Also, this applies only to people that are jumping in and out of the bonus ... not to people that stay in the same system, defensive advantage there, yes.
still... /signed
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Rudolf Miller
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.03.02 17:19:00 -
[6]
I think the better idea to the OP is to request making shield RR a valid tactic in eve instead of just armor RR
but yes... make the shield insta-boost on the bonus please... us shield tankers will love you
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.03.02 17:49:00 -
[7]
To the OP, that's how gang bonus's for shields have ALWAYS worked.
I'd like to see it changed, but it's too easy to abuse it otherwise.
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Flinchey
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.03.03 06:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: LynxHUN
I have sent a following bugreport and got some answer. Please let us know your opinion as well.
Hi,
The shield bonus skill which supposed to give shield hp bonus ( siege warfare ), still buged. Its give only bonus for the maximum possible shield hp but let the current hp down unlike the armor bonus. Eg.: 10k shield +lvl5 bonus you should have 11k of 11k shield but you will have only 10k of 11k. This bonus in its current state is fully useless. Please fix it as soon as possible.
Thank you!
Lynx
// This is by design as shields have a natural recharge where as armor doesnŠt.
// Regards, [BH] JAFBH
"This is by design as shields have a natural recharge where as armor doesnŠt."
Ah yes, to recharge shield from 91+ to 100 will take about 3-6 mins, depend on the ship and the fitt. And when we jump trough the gate, right into the midle of a fight, this bounus is fully useless. I saw people to lost thier ship becouse of this, while an armor tanked ship survived.
Lynx
// Thank you for the update. As previously stated, this is by design. Please create
// thread on the game development forums to debate the design if you wish to do so.
// BH Osmotic
you do realize..
that 11k shield vs 10k shield will have a faster recharge rate
THAT. is the truly useful part of it. where armor just offers a little more buffer, shield offers extra passive tank
if it instantly repaired your shield as well, compared to the armor boost, it's a little O/P.
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LynxHUN
Caldari
Ten Below Zero
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Posted - 2009.03.03 14:33:00 -
[9]
Did you ever calculated that, how much will your shield recharge rate grow?
Very few ships will be fitted in pvp for shield hp recharge rate instead of maximum hp. In pvp usualy u will use weapon upgrades not shield powers. Think of it, u havea blaster rokh with 27k hp. That heave about 33hp/sec peak recharge. When u get the bonus u will have about 30k shield with ~39 hp/sec peak recharge.
Thats not a big diferenc. So as i wrote earlier your shield will recharge from 91% to 100% in about 3-6 mins. If the enemy start shoot you the 33hp/sec peak recharge wont help you, neither 39hp/sec. But the +3k shield will buy some more time for your remote reppers or your fleet befor the enemy switch primary.
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Alex Raptos
Caldari
Phoenix Rising.
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Posted - 2009.05.29 15:01:00 -
[10]
You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Either fit a shield booster, or stop complaining about something working as intended. Its one of the few things that encourages active tanking shields anymore and even then for passive shield ships, it doesn't effect them because their fight is always around 35% shields anyway.
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
I've become gay for Mark Harmon despite my initial reservations about the show NCIS but nobody will ever know
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.05.29 15:38:00 -
[11]
are you just stupid or do you like wasting ccp's time?
you should know that it's working as intended as it is if you want it changed try the F&I forum the bug report is for bugs not whining.
usually I'd agree with this subject but seeing idiots like this which cause the bug reporting and petition ques to be filled with crap ****es me off.
-----------------------------------
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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LynxHUN
Caldari
Ten Below Zero
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:55:00 -
[12]
Am I stupid? Says it who cant understand what i said...
Read it agin man and stop being daffy.
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Calexis Atredies
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Posted - 2009.05.29 22:54:00 -
[13]
As a person who uses a siege mindlink in roaming HAC and recon gangs where our tanks are usually a shield buffer, I approve of the idea to make the bonus instant... when pursuing targets or jumping it would be much appreciated
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Sakal
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Posted - 2009.05.30 06:55:00 -
[14]
/signed
This is a good idea
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.05.30 08:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Flinchey
you do realize..
that 11k shield vs 10k shield will have a faster recharge rate
THAT. is the truly useful part of it. where armor just offers a little more buffer, shield offers extra passive tank
if it instantly repaired your shield as well, compared to the armor boost, it's a little O/P.
quoting the part that keeps being forgotten.
if the armor skill improved rep _amount_ by 10or15% aswell, then i'd sign this in this age of passive tanks, but alas....
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.05.30 08:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
Originally by: Flinchey
you do realize..
that 11k shield vs 10k shield will have a faster recharge rate
THAT. is the truly useful part of it. where armor just offers a little more buffer, shield offers extra passive tank
if it instantly repaired your shield as well, compared to the armor boost, it's a little O/P.
quoting the part that keeps being forgotten.
if the armor skill improved rep _amount_ by 10or15% aswell, then i'd sign this in this age of passive tanks, but alas....
Because shield HP tanks are SO much stronger than armor HP tanks. Hell, change the siege warfare bonus so that it increases recharge time as well if you want to, just let us have our full HP after jumping.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Q'Vic
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:40:00 -
[17]
/signed
It should work like Lynx said. |
Siohn Sai
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.03 10:22:00 -
[18]
From what I've heard, most PVP'ers favour armor tanking (at least in fleet engagements). Clearly there must be a reason. Why not balance things a bit? Or is it "by design" that shield tanks are for PVE and armor tanks are for PVP?
Nerf shield recharge if you must, but please: Listen to the OP! He's got a fair point.
- Siohn
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Vigaz
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Posted - 2009.06.03 10:36:00 -
[19]
/signed
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T0mPi
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Posted - 2009.06.03 11:32:00 -
[20]
Lynx right,
for example, if we use covert jump portal, to jump some pvp action, the SB+Recon ships can't use the shield hp bonus, because these in fight immediately. So in this case it does not make sense.
Regards,
Tompi
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2009.06.03 14:16:00 -
[21]
Given how long it takes to recharge the last few % of shield, this bonus is effectively wasted in many very common PvP scenarios.
It should be applied like the armor bonus. FFS armor already has better resists and is way more popular in RR, at least let the leadership shield bonus be as useful as the leadership armor bonus!
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Mach 1
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Posted - 2009.06.04 09:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Flinchey
Originally by: LynxHUN
I have sent a following bugreport and got some answer. Please let us know your opinion as well.
Hi,
The shield bonus skill which supposed to give shield hp bonus ( siege warfare ), still buged. Its give only bonus for the maximum possible shield hp but let the current hp down unlike the armor bonus. Eg.: 10k shield +lvl5 bonus you should have 11k of 11k shield but you will have only 10k of 11k. This bonus in its current state is fully useless. Please fix it as soon as possible.
Thank you!
Lynx
// This is by design as shields have a natural recharge where as armor doesnŠt.
// Regards, [BH] JAFBH
"This is by design as shields have a natural recharge where as armor doesnŠt."
Ah yes, to recharge shield from 91+ to 100 will take about 3-6 mins, depend on the ship and the fitt. And when we jump trough the gate, right into the midle of a fight, this bounus is fully useless. I saw people to lost thier ship becouse of this, while an armor tanked ship survived.
Lynx
// Thank you for the update. As previously stated, this is by design. Please create
// thread on the game development forums to debate the design if you wish to do so.
// BH Osmotic
you do realize..
that 11k shield vs 10k shield will have a faster recharge rate
THAT. is the truly useful part of it. where armor just offers a little more buffer, shield offers extra passive tank
if it instantly repaired your shield as well, compared to the armor boost, it's a little O/P.
I agree with the original poster. And to think it would make shield tankers overpowered compared to armor tankers.... well thats just stupid
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.06.04 11:38:00 -
[23]
well argumented 
yes recharge rate matters a lot. any broadsword, phobos, drake, shield-cane, tengu, alliance-tourney-vigil, vaga, extended recon or any remaining nano can confirm. heck we even have extended beam zealots, myrmidons and even some real armor tankers put extenders to their BS to overcome this little worry about the gjallerhorns.
sry, but you guys are just too spoiled by passive tanking. loot at you.. you're trying to make the second-best gang bonus #1: you already have the improved recharge rate. asking for instant HP boost is like demanding the skirmish skill to add top speed on top of the agility bonus (sure i'd love to have that, but...) not going to happen.
and wanna talk about information warfare...? no? didnt think so
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.06.04 12:07:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider
sry, but you guys are just too spoiled by passive tanking.
Hint: the people that care about passive tanking don't really care about HP. The people asking to get their HP don't really care about recharge.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.06.04 12:59:00 -
[25]
and that destroys my accusing of wanting-it-all how exactly?
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putting the gist back into logistics |
Nicoli Malthus
Caldari
The First Somerset Strikers
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Posted - 2009.06.04 16:58:00 -
[26]
I support this fix.
I hate it when i join a gang, and it looks like i just got shot.
If i'm at 100% shields, and get a bonus for 5% more, then i should still be at 100% shields, not 95%. Forget the recharge rate.
What matters here is more a visual thing, you get a bonus, and then your ship goes into the red, no body likes to see red on their ship stats, we like them blue, blue is good, red is bad...
Again, supported.
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Moonlight Cloud
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Posted - 2009.07.08 11:47:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Moonlight Cloud on 08/07/2009 11:48:09
Edited by: Moonlight Cloud on 08/07/2009 11:46:57
I use armor tank, but I agree with Lynx, this is an issue. And if you think about it, it wouldn't be overpowered at all, if it recharged instantly. Here is why:
- if your ship is fitted for passive shield recharge, it won't have as much buffer shield hp, so the effective hp growth won't be that great. Anyway, with a ship like that, you want to tank, not take dmg in your buffer, so that +% won't mean anything anyway, since your recharge rate increases already the way things are now. So you'll only get like +500 effective hp, woohoo, that wont save your broadsword or drake, if they heavily hit your passive recharge tank.
- if your ship is fitted for buffer shield tank, you don't really get any recharge bonus, as it is still awful (as Lynx calculated before). +6 or so recharge / second won't save your ship, if your 30k shield is draining rapidly. But that extra buffer that the instant recharge would offer, now that would really be useful.
But heck, if you think this is so OP this way because of the shield native recharge, just make the +HP bonus a little less, and make it instant.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.07.09 04:17:00 -
[28]
Except shields already passively regenerate. It's working as intended.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Nian Banks
Minmatar
Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2009.07.09 07:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Except shields already passively regenerate. It's working as intended.
I personally believed that there should be a self regenerating system for armor tanking.
To be more precise, I feel that the module types, 'Adaptive Nano Plating' and 'Regenerative Plating' should have a self repair bonus.
Heres my suggestion.
--------
Adaptive Nano Plating I
8% resist all.
Regenerates 20 armor HP every 2 seconds while out of combat (not locked by hostile), Bonus is stacking nerfed with other Adaptive Nano Plating's.
--------
Regenerative Plating I
6% Armor HP bonus.
100% bonus to Adaptive Nano Plating regeneration.
--------
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Corp 1 Allstars
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Posted - 2009.07.09 10:21:00 -
[30]
Shield is shield, armor is armor, leave it be, it's just fine.
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.09 17:53:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Siohn Sai
From what I've heard, most PVP'ers favour armor tanking (at least in fleet engagements). Clearly there must be a reason. Why not balance things a bit? Or is it "by design" that shield tanks are for PVE and armor tanks are for PVP?
Nerf shield recharge if you must, but please: Listen to the OP! He's got a fair point.
- Siohn
It has more to do with uniform tanks throughout the fleet. The favor is in turret ships instead of missile ships and since most turret ships use armor tanks - thats whats favored.
If you look at RR Fleets, then yes, armor tanking is the preferred tank because of how many races are based off of armor tanks along with the ability for those non-natural armor tanking races to convert to such and work efficiently.
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Quesa
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.09 18:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Except shields already passively regenerate. It's working as intended.
Except the OP is not referring to a type of shield tank. He's referring to stuff like jumping through gates and coming out the other side with half shields due to the gang/fleet bonuses re-affecting his shields after jump.
Take, for instance, flying a LSE buffered Curse. On jump you have full shields. After you come through the gate your shields are at about 1/3 capacity because the bonus of the LSE is calculated after you hit the system. So this has more to do with some flawed mechanics which are considered 'features' by CCP.
If they treated it like Armor HP (when a sessions change or gang bonus hits) everything would be peachy.
If you would actually CRITICALLY THINK before posting most of you wouldn't look like complete morons on a public forum.
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Zeveron
Destructive Influence
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Posted - 2009.07.10 10:04:00 -
[33]
You guys know how much time you need to passive regenerate a 37.5% shield bonus?
Never tried never gona try it.
Shield bonus should be given at 100% like armor bonus.
Passive recharge is useless in pvp in 90% of the cases and the 10% of the cases you should be in a specific ship (drake, nh, vulture, ferox).
/signed
________________________________________________
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Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.11 10:03:00 -
[34]
LynxHUN,
I'm in favor of if your shields at 100% health, and you get a max health bonus of +x%, you should still be at 100% health. percentage wise...
Regardless if your loading a new area or not.
Why penalize a bonus? seems silly
***********
Military Tactics
Dasfry, CEO
Demio's Corporation
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DARTHxFREE
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.07.11 20:21:00 -
[35]
/not signed
I think it's fine
I fly Siege warfare, wether passive on Ferox or active on Claymore
The red dip in shields is a good notification that all is working, and I like that.
As some one already stated shield affects both Cappacity + Regen
Originally by:
And when we jump trough the gate, right into the midle of a fight, this bounus is fully useless. I saw people to lost thier ship becouse of this, while an armor tanked ship survived.
It's not usless
Poeple didn't lose thier ships "because of this"
An armor tanked ship survived obviosly because he was targeted after the shield tankers died
to make the statment you did and to imply fair terms means all targets were hit with the same DPS at the same time (massive AOE attack?)
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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LynxHUN
Caldari
Ten Below Zero
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Posted - 2009.07.12 08:51:00 -
[36]
Edited by: LynxHUN on 12/07/2009 08:53:08
Quote:
It's not usless
Poeple didn't lose thier ships "because of this"
An armor tanked ship survived obviosly because he was targeted after the shield tankers died
Yes its usless.
And yes people can lose ships cous of it. And who told u that was same battle?
I lost ship cous of it. My friends warped to me and started locking when i was baiting, but i just died right at the moment they locked me. That +5-6k shield could save me.
Next time an abaddon was baiting, the enemy droped carriers on him, and he was in hull when he jumped out. if he didnt get that extra amor when we jump in and the bonus activated, he would lose his ship too.
I know these things are rare, but thats why is even worse.
And like someone said before there is a lot of situation and fleet setups where this bonus is useless. Like the hac/recon roaming gangs etc.
I still hope ccp will change this, its not a shield tank boosting because your pssive regen will grown anyway if your shield at 100% or not. And others and me are wrote how little is that regen. Its only matters if someone bring a fully relay fitted drake or NH into battle, but i can tell u if someone come to pvp in a ship like that, the whole ship doesn't worth anything.
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KissedByDeath
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Posted - 2009.07.13 05:27:00 -
[37]
Yes this is a problem with buffer(shield) setup ships. I think best thing to do is to give full shield after jumping systems. Only give the "red" shield "bonus" when person joins fleet (only once), but give full shields after a jump.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.13 10:58:00 -
[38]
/signed
The actual system is just ridiculous. Shield gang bonus should have the same bevahiour than Armor players : Full when applied.
_______
Local is fine, period.
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.07.13 19:10:00 -
[39]
Meh, this case is a nice example of bad game design by CCP, tbh. By far not the only one though - overheating and stacking penalty, anyone? Doubt it's going to get fixed, since it's quite regarded as a "feature" by now.
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2009.07.20 12:18:00 -
[40]
Originally by: KissedByDeath
Yes this is a problem with buffer(shield) setup ships. I think best thing to do is to give full shield after jumping systems. Only give the "red" shield "bonus" when person joins fleet (only once), but give full shields after a jump.
I'd go along with this.
Glyken
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