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Max Godsnottlingson Amarr Freelancing Cares	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:49:00 - [1] Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 11/03/2009 12:57:04 Recently I have started following the forums for the upcoming Star Trek on-line. The one thing I have noted is that every time Eve gets mentioned in a thread, masses of people (I use the word 'people' lightly) jump up and start slagging Eve off something terrible. However, this seems to be a common thread on many an on-line games forum. Mention Eve and a whole crowd start appearing out of the woodwork to shout how in their opinion it is the worst game ever! I suspect from the contents of what these 'folks' spew, that most have only played the game for a short while, couldn't cope with it, and have wandered off with a chip on their shoulder bigger then Mt. Everest.
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 12:53:00 - [2] Good for them, although I couldn't honestly care any less about their opinion - I enjoy it and I feel happy spending MY cash on it each month, so they can slag it off all they want for all I care. Likewise, do you really think they care if I believe that WoW is full of 14yr old kids who think they are so l33t and pwnz0r because they have some Magic Sword of E-peen +3? Just because I think it, doesn't make it true. Actually, wait a sec... :)
Corwain	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:12:00 - [3] I'd say 2 reasons: 1. Many people feel EVE is full of "greifers" and fail to understand that loss is just a part of EVE as it is apart of poker. I have some ultra competitive friends, but when I pointed out how much titans are worth in RL money and then further pointed out that you can lose one in the blink of an eye they all went "Aw man, that's so mean! I don't like that game, it sounds cruel." 2. Compexity: there is so much math involved in EVE that you need multiple out-of-game programs just to survive. EFT, EVEMon, market programs if you are gonna play the market, wallet programs...spreadsheets, calculators, etc. Most people are overwhelmed at first and never pick their way past the complex exterior. Sure, once you know the tricks and have the right programs it's easy, but its hard to wrap your head around initially. Hopefully all the new addons (ship fitter, etc) with Apocrypha will help. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:13:00 - [4] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Magic Sword of E-peen +3 So true!
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:20:00 - [5] Because we're mostly smug elitist ********s with the combined social grace and charisma of a slug. When was the last time you chatted to some random in local about anything other than booze or pirating? ____________________
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:39:00 - [6] Originally by: ReaperOfSly Because we're mostly smug elitist ******s with the combined social grace and charisma of a slug. When was the last time you chatted to some random in local about anything other than booze or pirating? True, true. /monocle /sip Originally by:** Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Corwain	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:55:00 - [7] Originally by: ReaperOfSly anything other than booze or pirating? What else is there? -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 13:59:00 - [8] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: ReaperOfSly anything other than booze or pirating? What else is there? Sex, Drugs and Rock&Roll?
jason hill Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:18:00 - [9] Edited by: jason hill on 11/03/2009 14:18:34 me ! nuff said destroy everything you touch
Culmen Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.03.11 14:44:00 - [10] Most people hate EvE, because EvE hates people Seriously this game is all about the hate Many developers try to create the feel of a cold, harsh, unforgiving place But CCP actually built it, thats why it's awesome and further more why do i even need a sig?
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:03:00 - [11] Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 11/03/2009 15:06:30 EVE is a game for people who like screwing people over, and for people who like getting screwed over. That's how we like it. Most people don't. Most people are normal - Infectious -
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:05:00 - [12] Maybe we should ask the people on here for when you mention wow, you may find your answer.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:05:00 - [13] Because they are carebears. Darkfall was created with the intention of being a harsh-PvP free-for-all empire-building monstrosity similar to EVE, and there EVE is often held up as an example of what DF should aspire to. So, if a MMOG forum attracts people who hate EVE, the game attached to that forum is rubbish. - DesuSigs
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:08:00 - [14] Mostly because people have likes and dislikes, and the more insecure ones turn their dislikes into hate-rants. For a comparable reaction, just type into militia or corp chat that you like World of Warcraft, and watch the venom flow. Now why such hate for a game they don't play?
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 11/03/2009 15:06:30 EVE is a game for people who like screwing people over, and for people who like getting screwed over. Speak for yourself, but I much prefer doing the screwing :)
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Ratchman For a comparable reaction, just type into militia or corp chat that you like World of Warcraft, and watch the venom flow. Now why such hate for a game they don't play? Because WoW popularised MMOGs with the PvE theme-park model, resulting in a huge influx of new people to other MMOGs who expected them to conform to this model, and also resulting in more and more developer focus on WoW-clones, reducing the number of anything-but-WoW games produced. Unlike EVE-haters, WoW-haters have some justification.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:29:00 - [17] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Ratchman For a comparable reaction, just type into militia or corp chat that you like World of Warcraft, and watch the venom flow. Now why such hate for a game they don't play? Because WoW popularised MMOGs with the PvE theme-park model, resulting in a huge influx of new people to other MMOGs who expected them to conform to this model, and also resulting in more and more developer focus on WoW-clones, reducing the number of anything-but-WoW games produced. Unlike EVE-haters, WoW-haters have some justification. And there's your answer OP.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.11 15:39:00 - [18] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich And there's your answer OP. True that. - DesuSigs
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:00:00 - [19] Originally by: Crumplecorn Unlike EVE-haters, WoW-haters have some justification. Thread has just been ended with a massive Epic Hammer of Thread Closure +8 (at +8 weapons start glowing - those who have played Knight Online like games will know what I mean).
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:07:00 - [20] BTW I put that quote in bold because I can guarantee you will see that on every other forum as well as a reason for X gamers to hate Y gamers. The arguments themselves are usually opinion based but many gamers treat it as a fact based argument so usually hold to the above ideals.
Moejdal	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Likewise, do you really think they care if I believe that WoW is full of 14yr old kids who think they are so l33t and pwnz0r because they have some Magic Sword of E-peen +3? Which it is? Atleast a good rate of the players are ''turds''. I should know, i've been playing it for 3 years.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:10:00 - [22] People are quite egotistical. Eve runs counter to most MMOÆs in that instead of giving up all of its secrets within the first few weeks and allowing the average Joe to become the next version of that games universals messiah the first thing Eve does is take a bucket of icey cold water and throws it in your face. Look at the average MMO: 1. No real loss û If you die you just respawn some distance from the fight and maybe your equipment will suffer damage that can easily be repaired if not replaced just as quickly. Here on the other hand weeks or months or work, depending on your situation may go down the drain. 2. power levelers û I never understood this group of people, both in MMOs and in other games in general but for some reason there are players who think your not good at games if you cant complete the game as quickly as possible. I bet their significant others are quite unsatisfied in bed but more to the point in Eve you can not one day beat the oldest player in terms of SP or quickly get to his level if you spend every waking minute leveling, it just doesnÆt work like that here. 3. pvp optional û even in games with pvp servers you still make a conscious choice to play on those servers or ôflag upö on a non pvp server. In eve, your always in pvp, for a lot of people who just want to gather wealth without the slightest risk thatÆs quite erksome and as usual when those sorts of people come to eve the first thing they do is complain and demand a multi server approach like the ôsuccessfulö MMOs. 4. PSP (player stupidity protection) û in most MMOs, if you do something stupid like fall for a scam you just have to report them to a CSM, wait a day or so, get your stuff back and the other guy gets a warning or ban. In here on the other hand if you fall for it you have to live with it. In short eve is hated for the simple fact that it doesnÆt let your average player stroke his ego. It requires you to work for your place, rewards your successes and punishes your failures. If Floyd was alive here today heÆd likely say most MMO players have an inferiority complex with violent outbursts when they donÆt get their way. Personally I wouldnÆt have it any other way, you cant fully enjoy something without the risk of one day losing it. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Micheal Dietrich BTW I put that quote in bold because I can guarantee you will see that on every other forum as well as a reason for X gamers to hate Y gamers. The arguments themselves are usually opinion based but many gamers treat it as a fact based argument so usually hold to the above ideals. One difference I would hope is that I didn't say there was anything wrong with WoW, merely the effects it has on the industry were not ideal. From the OP's post, I do not believe this is the case in the instances which inspired this thread. - DesuSigs
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:24:00 - [24] Originally by: Jacob Mei If Floyd was alive here today heÆd likely say most MMO players have an inferiority complex with violent outbursts when they donÆt get their way. I suspect you mean Freud, otherwise I'm not quite sure what Pink Floyd would have to say about MMOs...
Micheal Dietrich Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Micheal Dietrich BTW I put that quote in bold because I can guarantee you will see that on every other forum as well as a reason for X gamers to hate Y gamers. The arguments themselves are usually opinion based but many gamers treat it as a fact based argument so usually hold to the above ideals. One difference I would hope is that I didn't say there was anything wrong with WoW, merely the effects it has on the industry were not ideal. From the OP's post, I do not believe this is the case in the instances which inspired this thread. I don't disagree. There is nothing wrong with saying a game is crap as long as you understand it is of opinion and not that of fact. I personally played wow until about level 24 or so when I became so insanely bored with pve. It's in my opinion that it is boring but for 10 million people they seem to enjoy it. In the end though I found more fun in WAR, which is supposedly a wow clone, but there are aspects of it that I like better than wow (like being able to pvp since level 1) And in the end I enjoy EVE for completely different reasons. For one I love the skill system. I love having no class boundaries. After 2 years I can shoot every gun and I can fly every race ship up to BS and it shows on my character. In here an accomplishment really has meaning. If someone hates this game then oh well, more space for me.
Elora Danzik Caldari Ward-Tech Industries	Posted - 2009.03.11 16:33:00 - [26] Eve is closer to RL then any other MMO, I cared to look into. If you are the CEO of a corp, you have corp politics to deal with. Just like work. If you fall for a scam you lose it...just like life. 3 years ago fell for a vending machine scam, the feds got involved. lost $10k RL money got a check 3 months ago for $222 Rl money. Why should a video game just give you your stuff back for being stupid? If you are head of alliance, then I hear the politics is corp x100,000. (never been in that position just heard CEO of old corp complain ALOT about it) Just like real life if you decided you don't like a career path you can change it. Try doing that in WOW WITHOUT having to roll a new Char. It seems in EVE the people who play it and stick around for a while enjoy the complexity as a challenge that is not encountered in RL. The irony is if you applied the same delegence to RL you could be as sucessful as you are in eve. Yes I am gulity too.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.03.11 17:42:00 - [27] There are a few reasons why they dont like eve. The main ones are. 1. Repercussions for their actions. They want games with no drawbacks or consequences. 2. Risk. EvE is the only MMO with real risk involved. This fightens them. 3. Instant gratification. they want it now but in eve it very rarely works out that way. 4. Difficulty. Putting missions aside, eve is not the easyest of games to play. It is complex and requires you to think about what you are doing. This angers and confuses the dumb. 5. Envy. They know full well their game sucks in every way compared to eve but they cant come here because they just cant handle the freedom, risk, complexity or time to learn.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Zetsubou Corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 17:54:00 - [28] Originally by: baltec1 There are a few reasons why they dont like eve. The main ones are. 1. Repercussions for their actions. They want games with no drawbacks or consequences. 2. Risk. EvE is the only MMO with real risk involved. This fightens them. 3. Instant gratification. they want it now but in eve it very rarely works out that way. 4. Difficulty. Putting missions aside, eve is not the easyest of games to play. It is complex and requires you to think about what you are doing. This angers and confuses the dumb. 5. Envy. They know full well their game sucks in every way compared to eve but they cant come here because they just cant handle the freedom, risk, complexity or time to learn. See what I mean about elitism? ____________________
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Hoodlums Associates	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:10:00 - [29] Originally by: ReaperOfSly See what I mean about elitism? I used to play SWG. The people who are left there all panic the moment anyone metions hard NPC's and decay. Its a sorry sight to see
Morgorathi Minmatar The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple	Posted - 2009.03.11 18:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Max Godsnottlingson Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 11/03/2009 12:57:04 Recently I have started following the forums for the upcoming Star Trek on-line. The one thing I have noted is that every time Eve gets mentioned in a thread, masses of people (I use the word 'people' lightly) jump up and start slagging Eve off something terrible. However, this seems to be a common thread on many an on-line games forum. Mention Eve and a whole crowd start appearing out of the woodwork to shout how in their opinion it is the worst game ever! I suspect from the contents of what these 'folks' spew, that most have only played the game for a short while, couldn't cope with it, and have wandered off with a chip on their shoulder bigger then Mt. Everest. EvE = Science Fiction Simulation STO crowd = *****y neckbeards QQing because some nice pirate blew up their Mining frigate and no one wants to play star tweks with them.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:27:00 - [31] Originally by: Max Godsnottlingson Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 11/03/2009 12:57:04 Recently I have started following the forums for the upcoming Star Trek on-line. The one thing I have noted is that every time Eve gets mentioned in a thread, masses of people (I use the word 'people' lightly) jump up and start slagging Eve off something terrible. However, this seems to be a common thread on many an on-line games forum. Mention Eve and a whole crowd start appearing out of the woodwork to shout how in their opinion it is the worst game ever! I suspect from the contents of what these 'folks' spew, that most have only played the game for a short while, couldn't cope with it, and have wandered off with a chip on their shoulder bigger then Mt. Everest. Because people hate being reminded of how they fail. Yeah I'm an elitist *******. It feels pretty good.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.11 20:30:00 - [32] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Originally by: Jacob Mei If Floyd was alive here today heÆd likely say most MMO players have an inferiority complex with violent outbursts when they donÆt get their way. I suspect you mean Freud, otherwise I'm not quite sure what Pink Floyd would have to say about MMOs... "Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb..."
Elysarian Minmatar dudetruck corp	Posted - 2009.03.11 22:23:00 - [33] I'm going to drop one in here for discussion... Runescape. Ok, it's "sharded" in a way (multiple worlds but skills and market via Grand Exchange are global). However: until relatively recently there was real risk if you stepped into the Wilderness (more WoW-like now that they changed this to having PvP worlds and PvE worlds though) - Wilderness has the equivalent of Eve's Sleepers in the form of Revenant Ghosts. PvP in a broader sense is there though: you will always be competing with others for resources, mob spawns and on the market. Death leads to "real loss" in most cases in that, unless you can get back to your gear within the timer your stuff despawns (you can buy a better gravestone to increase this time - like a clone but for stuff instead of SP) - penalty for PKer dying is they lose more stuff (all items if you are the aggressor in a fight). You can respec into another "class" at any time without penalty or re-rolling just by levelling up the relevant skills as the level cap is on a per-skill basis rather than global. Ok, so the gfx aren't up to much (that's the main complaint people have about the game) - but I've been playing on/off for over 6 years. Also: RS had a major engine upgrade awhile ago which lead to a lot of similar "Emo-Rage-quit" posting on forums (Recent developments in these boards over the dropping of Classic remind me of those days). Discuss ===================================== It smells of spoon! =====================================
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:12:00 - [34] Almost all of the MMOs out there are full of 'bears, casual players who don't want to think too hard about something out of fear it will give them a stroke. When they immigrate to EVE, they expect rainbows and space ponies and a theme park built just for them. Then they get **y to find they have to do the heavy lifting, and think that the game's ** when its simply different. Explanation number 2, which is my favorite, is that they're just a bunch of tards. Stimulus
Ja'kar Geb's Call Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:19:00 - [35] Ok then how much influence on eve do these so-called carebears have on the game dynamics? MAFIA Website
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:22:00 - [36] Originally by: Sakura Nihil Explanation number 2, which is my favorite, is that they're just a bunch of tards. Yea. Personally, I like this one much better. Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Evthron Macyntire	Posted - 2009.03.11 23:24:00 - [37] Edited by: Evthron Macyntire on 11/03/2009 23:24:16 Because it is an almost perfect representation of what real life would be like if society stopped babying everyone. Minus the killing of course. And that scares people. ------------------------------ Sigs like this.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2009.03.12 00:15:00 - [38] Originally by: Ja'kar Ok then how much influence on eve do these so-called carebears have on the game dynamics? The suicide ganking nerf comes to mind. Also, the fact that despite being a virtual ISK faucet, L4s remain everywhere in highsec. Stimulus
Zarda Sulan Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.12 08:09:00 - [39] Edited by: Zarda Sulan on 12/03/2009 08:09:20 i love all mmo's, most of them you have to take with a pinch of salt- the main reason why eve is hated by so many is the loss factor- when you have pve/pvp games like wow where dying results in absolutely no loss it can draw the crowds in - which in this case most games are like this. The exceptions are the ones where pvp loss can be significant - like rising force online where you lost actual items (like mech drivers loosing thier mechs and loosing pvp points which gave you standing)- attracts only a certain kind of ppl. Then you have Eve in all its brutality- alot of ppl hate the fact that you can work for months getting a nice shiny ship and loose it in a mere few seconds- this scares off alot of ppl and unfortunetly with the popularity of mmo's there seem's to eb a huge increase of carebears who hate living in a virtual world where they can loose everything. thats why alot of ppl throw hate at this game- its only really liked by space fans and the hardcore pvper's who can accept loss. Huh?
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:54:00 - [40] Most other MMOs are very comfortable. Eve Online is not. Anyone coming from any other MMO is likely to dislike it, except a few who didn't like those comfort zones with their teddies and blankets.
Elysarian Minmatar dudetruck corp	Posted - 2009.03.12 09:54:00 - [41] Originally by: Zarda Sulan Edited by: Zarda Sulan on 12/03/2009 08:09:20 i love all mmo's, most of them you have to take with a pinch of salt- the main reason why eve is hated by so many is the loss factor- when you have pve/pvp games like wow where dying results in absolutely no loss it can draw the crowds in - which in this case most games are like this. The exceptions are the ones where pvp loss can be significant - like rising force online where you lost actual items (like mech drivers loosing thier mechs and loosing pvp points which gave you standing)- attracts only a certain kind of ppl. Then you have Eve in all its brutality- alot of ppl hate the fact that you can work for months getting a nice shiny ship and loose it in a mere few seconds- this scares off alot of ppl and unfortunetly with the popularity of mmo's there seem's to eb a huge increase of carebears who hate living in a virtual world where they can loose everything. thats why alot of ppl throw hate at this game- its only really liked by space fans and the hardcore pvper's who can accept loss. See, now your reasons that players of other MMO's hate Eve is why I love it. I'm a self-confessed carebear myself but I am still aware that when I'm sitting in a belt mining or in a deadspace area flying a mission there is a chance, however small, that another player in a PvP-fit ship could come in and take away the BS that took me 2 weeks to save for. The risk of loss is what makes Eve far less boring than those MMOs which require "grinding" to "level up". I also like that I can progress my character here in Eve while I'm not even at the computer (especially now we have a skill queue). You never know, one day I might venture out into low/null sec and risk it all for the adrenaline-rush that is real PvP ===================================== It smells of spoon! =====================================
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.03.12 10:23:00 - [42] People hate EVE because it has the potential to ** you over as much as real-life can. Fact is, I played WoW for 6 months just for perspective to see if it was as bad as everyone says. Its not terrible - and the initial grind is probably the most amusing part of it. However once you hit the top - its just disgustingly boring, full of whining and drama and generally not worth the effort at all. I cancelled my subscription to WoW after the 6 months, with the feeling that I had essentially finished the game. No, I didnt have all the useless achievements, nor had I completed every Raid Instance - but I knew that it was all the ing same anyway, regardless of where it was. EVE however, has no top - theres always some direction you can move in thats different to what you're doing. Even when you take a break from EVE you can continue to progress. Another problem people have with EVE, is that you make your own game - it doesnt serve up a dollop of barely imaginative story and tell you to get on with the killing. In EVE you exist, if you sit around expecting something to happen, it won't - you have to get out there and create your universe in the sandbox. Naturally, People with a **ty imagination or a feeble grasp on industrialism or politics cannot get on with EVE. There are, of course, a few that try - but their scope of the game generally goes as far as the PewPew, and not a lot else. The key issue people have with EVE, that will make them spit acid about it - is that... at some point, they've failed. Hard. They've either roamed into a bad sec system and got completely owned, and taken it personally - or have just failed to even get on their feet. Naturally people don't like a game when all they can manage to do is lose.
Ricard Clarence Gallente Sons Of 0din Black Legion.	Posted - 2009.03.12 11:44:00 - [43] MMO player prejudice, the new racism of 21'st century...
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:10:00 - [44] I went to the STO forums and I saw Star Trek furries. I now have to sub when it's released to grief them.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:12:00 - [45] Quote: In short eve is hated for the simple fact that it doesnÆt let your average player stroke his ego. It requires you to work for your place, rewards your successes and punishes your failures. If Floyd was alive here today heÆd likely say most MMO players have an inferiority complex with violent outbursts when they donÆt get their way. Personally I wouldnÆt have it any other way, you cant fully enjoy something without the risk of one day losing it. Is that Sigmen Floyd?
Tallaran Kouros Caldari Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.12 14:53:00 - [46] Originally by: TraininVain Quote: In short eve is hated for the simple fact that it doesnÆt let your average player stroke his ego. It requires you to work for your place, rewards your successes and punishes your failures. If Floyd was alive here today heÆd likely say most MMO players have an inferiority complex with violent outbursts when they donÆt get their way. Personally I wouldnÆt have it any other way, you cant fully enjoy something without the risk of one day losing it. Is that Sigmen Floyd? Nah Pink Floyd.
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.03.12 17:53:00 - [47] Originally by: TimMc Most other MMOs are very comfortable. Eve Online is not. Anyone coming from any other MMO is likely to dislike it, except a few who didn't like those comfort zones with their teddies and blankets. Actually I disliked PvP in most other MMOs, and especially those PvP servers (and god damn it the unrestricted PvP servers). However, it was the strong dislike of the difference between the hard-to-change PvP/PvE builds and the insane advantage that someone just 10 levels over you have due to hit&damage level modification tables. In Eve, if you have the skills it's just a matter of switching ships and there are no levels. Once you're done with the basics you're almost on equal terms (and it's nothing that can't be fixed by choosing the right ships, tactics or simply having a few more pilots). ______________________________________________ -My respect can not be won, only lost. It's given freely and only grudgingly withdrawn.
Lardarz B'stard Amarr Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.03.12 18:42:00 - [48] lack of wizards / goblins is a big factor
TimMc Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2009.03.12 22:31:00 - [49] Originally by: Nomakai Delateriel Originally by: TimMc Most other MMOs are very comfortable. Eve Online is not. Anyone coming from any other MMO is likely to dislike it, except a few who didn't like those comfort zones with their teddies and blankets. Actually I disliked PvP in most other MMOs, and especially those PvP servers (and god damn it the unrestricted PvP servers). However, it was the strong dislike of the difference between the hard-to-change PvP/PvE builds and the insane advantage that someone just 10 levels over you have due to hit&damage level modification tables. In Eve, if you have the skills it's just a matter of switching ships and there are no levels. Once you're done with the basics you're almost on equal terms (and it's nothing that can't be fixed by choosing the right ships, tactics or simply having a few more pilots). Only other MMO I've played was Guild Wars, where PvP was balanced arenas. Alot of fun with no losses, but Eve is alot better because of how much more complicated it is.
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2009.03.13 05:20:00 - [50] Edited by: Kessiaan on 13/03/2009 05:22:48 When I first started playing EvE I was the biggest carebear ever. I had my little Scythe (later a Retriver, then a Hulk), and I mined, and every time I got flipped it **ed me off so much because anyone who felt like it could come fk with me whenever they wanted for any/no reason at all. I came really close to quitting and (gasp) going back to WoW, but then one day I got fed up and decided that I didn't care how many years of SPs they had on me, I was going to get my revenge. So I switched into my (horribly fit) Rupture, came back, and shot it out. And I won. Wasn't easy (see aforementioned horrible fit), but I thought it over afterwords, refined my fit, and I continued to win. Then, a few weeks later, I thought, "Hey, I can have all these rocks to myself if I run all these other jackasses out of here" and annoyed all the other miners in my favorite systems into leaving. And I quickly gave up any thoughts of quitting. I think the biggest hurdle new players have is realizing that EvE is about managing risk, not avoiding it altogether. And realizing that all the tools you need to protect yourself are available to you almost from the start, as long as you play smart. Nobody will hold your hand here, a lot of people can't seem to get over that, or don't want to deal with the stress. EvE is a game you play to achieve, not to just blow off steam while you kill mindless mobs all day.
Drake Dracoli EXTERMINATUS.	Posted - 2009.03.13 08:49:00 - [51] I've been posting on the Darkfall forums for years, as well as my clan forums, and I tell you, there's a rabid hate for EVE even among the hardcore PVP crowd. I think it's because deep down they know that EVE is could have been potentionally totally awesome for them, but they were unable to get into the game due to slow startup and real time skill training. The hate goes so far that I've been banned from even talking about in my clan's forums or Ventrilio.
Victor Valka Caldari Kissaki Corporation	Posted - 2009.03.13 12:17:00 - [52] Originally by: Drake Dracoli I've been posting on the Darkfall forums for years, as well as my clan forums, and I tell you, there's a rabid hate for EVE even among the hardcore PVP crowd. I think it's because deep down they know that EVE is could have been potentionally totally awesome for them, but they were unable to get into the game due to slow startup and real time skill training. The hate goes so far that I've been banned from even talking about in my clan's forums or Ventrilio. Kill them an take their stuffs! And when they proclaim that "This is madness!" you answer with "This is EVE!". Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.03.13 12:34:00 - [53] I know this is goign to make me sound elitist (Hell, perhaps I am, a bit). Players who tried Eve, and didn't like it: - People wanting a Freespace or Counter-Strike in space. (nothing against those, matter of taste only) - Those who can't stand meaningfull pvp and risk of signifiant asset lost. - Those who got bored because they didn't find anything to do, they got too used to being led by the hand by a few lines of code telling them what they should do. People who didn't like Eve, and didn't try it: - Sheep - Sheep - Elves ------------------------------------------
Smokin Gunn	Posted - 2009.03.13 12:58:00 - [54] Eve has no room for those emo-raging kids. We hate them more then they hate us.
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:08:00 - [55] Eve is too complex for their puny mainstream console gamer minds. ----------- Originally by: CCP Whisper Deal with it.
Glarion Garnier The Scope	Posted - 2009.03.13 15:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Ratchman Mostly because people have likes and dislikes, and the more insecure ones turn their dislikes into hate-rants. For a comparable reaction, just type into militia or corp chat that you like World of Warcraft, and watch the venom flow. Now why such hate for a game they don't play? words of wisdom. You just gained 3 poinsts diplomacy in my books :) _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Bullageddon Caldari	Posted - 2009.03.13 16:51:00 - [57] Originally by: Max Godsnottlingson Edited by: Max Godsnottlingson on 11/03/2009 12:57:04 Recently I have started following the forums for the upcoming Star Trek on-line. The one thing I have noted is that every time Eve gets mentioned in a thread, masses of people (I use the word 'people' lightly) jump up and start slagging Eve off something terrible. However, this seems to be a common thread on many an on-line games forum. Mention Eve and a whole crowd start appearing out of the woodwork to shout how in their opinion it is the worst game ever! I suspect from the contents of what these 'folks' spew, that most have only played the game for a short while, couldn't cope with it, and have wandered off with a chip on their shoulder bigger then Mt. Everest. Idiots who are too dumb to do certain things inevitably just talk trash about it to cover their own inadequacies. === This Space For Lease or Sale.
rValdez5987 Amarr PROGENITOR CORPORATION	Posted - 2009.03.13 18:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Tallaran Kouros Good for them, although I couldn't honestly care any less about their opinion - I enjoy it and I feel happy spending MY cash on it each month, so they can slag it off all they want for all I care. Likewise, do you really think they care if I believe that WoW is full of 14yr old kids who think they are so l33t and pwnz0r because they have some Magic Sword of E-peen +3? Just because I think it, doesn't make it true. Actually, wait a sec... :) EVE players are right, everyone else is wrong and is **** to not take seriously.... But I play warhammer for pvp and I gotta say that game is ok. But seriously haven't you even noticed my post already ended and your reading my sig?
Jago Kain Amarr Pan Galactic Traders	Posted - 2009.03.13 23:26:00 - [59] Originally by: Smokin Gunn Eve has no room for those emo-raging kids. We hate them more then they hate us. And what is more, we hated them first. Any reciprocal hate is merely them biting our style. ___________________________________________________ The game will never be over, because we're keeping the meme alive.
Glamaz Cruciatia	Posted - 2009.03.13 23:39:00 - [60] right, didnt bother to read all the replies but Im sure its been said.. Real Life example... You go to a football/soccer/baseball whatever ya fancy match.. your surrounded by team A fans, who are rivals with team B, you mention team B alot and you'll be lucky to get out of there with any bones intact... Now lets see.. EVE = space mmo, star trek online (MMO?) or atleast a space game, they kind of share the same market.. and each side will back their team... you mentioned EVE in a 'rival teams' forums... and yet you think its them with the problem??
The AEther Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2009.03.14 05:06:00 - [61] This one is pretty simple - for same reason you log onto EVE and find people ranting about other games (wow comes to mind).
Omaku Toba	Posted - 2009.03.14 17:50:00 - [62] Its hated because people like hating things they aren't a part of and enjoy making out what they are involved in to be the best thing in the universe. Admittedly I sometimes fall prey to this behaviour from time to time when discussing WoW but then again I played the game for over three years and therefore are somewhat qualified to offer an opinion. Most WoW players have never heard of Eve Online and those that have mostly quit after playing the game for an hour because it didn't have the constant reward system which WoW has. Tell someone that the best thing they can do the first few days of their characters existance is to train learning skills which don't make thing blow up with the wave of a hand usually puts most players off. Welcome to the world of instant gratification which the majoriy of MMO's are designed into satisfying but which Eve Online doesn't subscribe too. The result is a game which rewards patience and forward thinking and so gives low level satisfaction interspersed with smaller rewards such as being able to use new ships and weapons or simply blowing another player up.
goodby4u Valor Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.14 18:44:00 - [63] Edited by: goodby4u on 14/03/2009 18:49:48 Edited by: goodby4u on 14/03/2009 18:49:22 Edited by: goodby4u on 14/03/2009 18:45:02 Originally by: Elysarian I'm going to drop one in here for discussion... Runescape. Ok, it's "sharded" in a way (multiple worlds but skills and market via Grand Exchange are global). However: until relatively recently there was real risk if you stepped into the Wilderness (more WoW-like now that they changed this to having PvP worlds and PvE worlds though) - Wilderness has the equivalent of Eve's Sleepers in the form of Revenant Ghosts. PvP in a broader sense is there though: you will always be competing with others for resources, mob spawns and on the market. Death leads to "real loss" in most cases in that, unless you can get back to your gear within the timer your stuff despawns (you can buy a better gravestone to increase this time - like a clone but for stuff instead of SP) - penalty for PKer dying is they lose more stuff (all items if you are the aggressor in a fight). You can respec into another "class" at any time without penalty or re-rolling just by levelling up the relevant skills as the level cap is on a per-skill basis rather than global. Ok, so the gfx aren't up to much (that's the main complaint people have about the game) - but I've been playing on/off for over 6 years. Also: RS had a major engine upgrade awhile ago which lead to a lot of similar "Emo-Rage-quit" posting on forums (Recent developments in these boards over the dropping of Classic remind me of those days). Discuss Runescape is an incredibly boring and horrible game, now before you go on about"you didnt play it long enough".... Look up goodby2u, hes not the greatest gift to human kind ever but hes quite skilled up. It is an endless grinding session with crappy graphics and very little reward as a result, the playerbase is what holds it back because a large quantity of them are quite young and whiney when they lose their stuff. But your point may as well be taken, the loss thingy happens indeed, but there is no push to go into the wilderness besides pvp(and some other stuff that you really dont need to do).... Also if you pvp a certain way you can ensure you dont lose anything with grabbingcoughwhip alone with save 1 itemcough EDIT:To avoid looking like im just going on a mindless rant about some crappy game, there are points I liked. The free-for-all arena thing they had in that volcano was incredibly fun, especially when you are with a team or using ancient magicks. Its a good way to blow 3 years of your life trying to get every quest done and every skill to 99, if only to realise that you blew a 3 years of your life to skill everything in a random mmo to 99 and have absolutely nothing to show for it. Lastly, I <3 guthans.
Aricaan Gallente Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo	Posted - 2009.03.14 18:50:00 - [64] People hate EVE cause its Terribad... duh! ISK rules everything around me.

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