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clone 1 Laughing Leprechauns Corporation Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:42:00 - [271] Originally by: Avon Anyone from 4S posted in here yet? Oh you mean when CCP(GM) overreacted to the term '4S' being offensive and was changed to a non name corp and was proved wrong and they undid their mistake? CCP did something stupid, people reacted, CCP undid it. I can see similarity with the first two steps, I wonder if CCP will complete the cycle. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
Laura Rampart	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:43:00 - [272] Originally by: Tobruk Edited by: Tobruk on 24/03/2009 18:31:14 Originally by: Laura Rampart Originally by: Tobruk For bob it just happend. And still you havent adressed a single one of my points - did any of the people who were killed by a privateer wardec get thier ships back? NO. should bob get its name back. NO. What about people who got suicide ganked, did they get their stuff back? NO. Did Bob get their territory back? NO Did Bob get their name back? NO The example above are only examples of when CCP changed rules. This discussion is about wheter CCP changed rules before and these are the proofs. no, because clearly THEY DIDNT CHANGE THE RULES even they havent claimed that. this discussion is about weather CCP broke the existing rules to give a special favor to one group. to me its pretty clear. to you... well your debating some other topic/ can't admit you have no point and simply hate goonswarm (which is fine i hate them too). You so fail at reading, they obviously changed the rule by stating: Originally by: GM_Grimmi This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment. So now, if you actually READ what the GM posted, you'd see that: -NOT THE FIRST TIME -WILL BE DONE FOR OTHERS if the same conditions are met
Ezoran DuBlaidd Freedom From Fear Industries	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:43:00 - [273] Originally by: GM Grimmi Yesterday we changed the name of the alliance KenZoku to Band of Brothers Reloaded as the result of a petition by their leadership. It has come to our attention that this was not a popular decision among some of our players and weÆd like to take this opportunity to address those issues. We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action. The leadership of KenZoku/Band of Brothers did petition us immediately after they were disbanded and their name was taken. While we worked on the petition for about two months we do not feel that they should suffer because of that. Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case. This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment. where's the list of alliances who received this same preferential treatement, in changing a non-offensive name without having to reform the alliance, other than bob? or is this just lying bull**, again, to cover ccp cheating for bob, again? they reformed, they chose the name kenzoku, leaders of bob/kenzoku STATED that they'd never wanted the name band of brothers, but the name they wanted was refused to them because it looked too much like CCP, so based upon bob leadership's PUBLIC statements -- they never wanted that bob name anyway. so, since this is ok, all the alliances who have non-offensive names, may now petition for name changes and get the names changes and NOT lose sov? or is this just bull lies to cover up MORE ccp cheating for bob? seriously.... will this never cease? why does anyone want to continue to play a game where the staff cheats for one alliance again and again, just whenever they feel like doing it, and yet, even with a make-believe internal affairs department AND a csm team (who is supposed to keep ccp from AGAIN cheating for bob)... you "people" just can't stop cheating. bob REFORMED under the name kenzoku not a month ago... they CHOSE that name... no one forced them to take it. so, are all the petitions for alliance name changes going to be honored??? or are you just full of **?
Iamien Caldari Stargate SG-1 Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:44:00 - [274] Edited by: Iamien on 24/03/2009 18:46:00 One of the advantages of them joining KenZoku was that they got could get sov sooner. One of the downsides is they didn't have the name they wanted. If they would had waited longer, they could of had this name in the first place, but wouldn't have gotten sov as quickly. Reverse it CCP. Pure favoritism.(and I hate the Goons.)
damgood85 Gallente Excelsior Solar Management Stargate Experiment 626	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:45:00 - [275] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Saying we should just quit if we don't like what happened is like saying Rosa Parks should have just stopped using buses. Isn't that what the boycott was.... Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
clone 1 Laughing Leprechauns Corporation Lotto Syndicate	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:46:00 - [276] Originally by: Iamien One of the advantages of them joining Kenzuko was that they got sov sooner. One of the downsides is they didnt have the name they wanted. If they would had waited longer, they could of had this name in the first place. Reverse it CCP. Quoted for the cold calculated truth. -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:48:00 - [277] Originally by: clone 1 Originally by: Iamien One of the advantages of them joining Kenzuko was that they got sov sooner. One of the downsides is they didnt have the name they wanted. If they would had waited longer, they could of had this name in the first place. Reverse it CCP. Quoted for the cold calculated truth. This.
Karezan	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:48:00 - [278] I find all the *****ing amusing because I strongly believe the only reason for it is because Goonswarm (and friends) feels slighted for not being able to grief BoB as much as possible. If this really upsets you this much, quit. If you still believe CCP clearly favors BoB above all else, despite the long history and many many threads like this about different issues regarding BoB favoritism, I doubt this one will make the difference. The only thing that will is showing them how you feel by costing them money. But you won't do that, so I guess spamming is the next best option. If you were my employer, and I just never showed up for work, would you keep spamming me with emails telling me how upset you are that I never show up, but keep paying me anyway, expecting that one day I'll feel bad and change my mind? That's similar to what's happening here. CCP has it's history of nepotism, and says they've dealt with that and now they are unbiased. If you honestly believe they lied, despite such a long history and so much drama surrounding the T20 case and other incidents, why do you think this thread will change anything? Especially when this is a very minor incident compared to the T20 one.
Garathyal	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:50:00 - [279] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Your logic is so flawed, I'm not even sure why I'm talking to you. Why is the "only" way to "really" protest to quit? We enjoy this game. We think the rules were broken...mostly because they were. Saying we should just quit if we don't like what happened is like saying Rosa Parks should have just stopped using buses. ermmmm... dude.... ^^
Yonker GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:52:00 - [280] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: clone 1 Originally by: Iamien One of the advantages of them joining Kenzuko was that they got sov sooner. One of the downsides is they didnt have the name they wanted. If they would had waited longer, they could of had this name in the first place. Reverse it CCP. Quoted for the cold calculated truth. This. qtiyd

Garathyal	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:52:00 - [281] Originally by: Karezan I find all the *****ing amusing because I strongly believe the only reason for it is because Goonswarm (and friends) feels slighted for not being able to grief BoB as much as possible. If this really upsets you this much, quit. If you still believe CCP clearly favors BoB above all else, despite the long history and many many threads like this about different issues regarding BoB favoritism, I doubt this one will make the difference. The only thing that will is showing them how you feel by costing them money. But you won't do that, so I guess spamming is the next best option. If you were my employer, and I just never showed up for work, would you keep spamming me with emails telling me how upset you are that I never show up, but keep paying me anyway, expecting that one day I'll feel bad and change my mind? That's similar to what's happening here. CCP has it's history of nepotism, and says they've dealt with that and now they are unbiased. If you honestly believe they lied, despite such a long history and so much drama surrounding the T20 case and other incidents, why do you think this thread will change anything? Especially when this is a very minor incident compared to the T20 one. Very very well said. The bile and whine and semi legalese is just silly. Mind you if I had spent 3-4 weeks kkilling 500 POSes I would be sad right now too.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:52:00 - [282] Edited by: Avon on 24/03/2009 18:54:56 Originally by: clone 1 Originally by: Avon Anyone from 4S posted in here yet? Oh you mean when CCP(GM) overreacted to the term '4S' being offensive and was changed to a non name corp and was proved wrong and they undid their mistake? CCP did something stupid, people reacted, CCP undid it. I can see similarity with the first two steps, I wonder if CCP will complete the cycle. And how did it get undone? What happened? And by whom? Read the threads about it. See how CCP clearly stated they were making an exception to the {re)naming policy then. The drama here is that there is no precedent, and that is not true. I can think of another example too, as it happens. Added: another 2 in fact, and there are probably more. アニメ漫画です
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:52:00 - [283] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 24/03/2009 18:55:16 Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: clone 1 Originally by: Iamien One of the advantages of them joining Kenzuko was that they got sov sooner. One of the downsides is they didnt have the name they wanted. If they would had waited longer, they could of had this name in the first place. Reverse it CCP. Quoted for the cold calculated truth. This. This, I said it myself but it got buried in the thread. ...and the reason why people like me think this is a big deal. Because essentially it's gasp cheating, so they could have their cake and eat it. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Freedom From Fear Industries	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:54:00 - [284] Originally by: LaVista Vista Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/03/2009 15:23:23 Grimmi, due all respect, I think this could have been solved a bit nicer. So tell me if I'm wrong, but here's what happened: 1. BOB was compromised and disbanded after they eliminated a built-in safeguard, in exchange for convenience. 2. They joined an alt-alliance in order to keep sov. 3. They then petition for their name back. CCP gets a second opinion from your friendly neighborhood friends. 4. Months later, you decide that there's basis for letting an alt-alliance, which suddenly became a main-alliance, change their name. 5. You try to justify it by saying that they have done it to other alliances too. However it's the case that alliances have only been given another chance, if they misspelled the name or the like. I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly why it was warranted, that an re-utilized alt-alliance suddenly could get a renaming. I could personally not care less if even goonswarm had their name changed. However the response of yours lacks a bit. You haven't justified a whole lot, which I had hoped for. It's also obvious that people weren't pleased with it. I hope that you will address the issue further. Originally by: Vashan Tar When their alliance was disbanded using in game mechanics they had the option of either reforming a new alliance (losing sov) or joining an existing one (kenzoku) and losing their name. Well, they lost all their space. But still. I agree with this. you mean they lost their space for now... i'm sure bob has petitioned that it wasn't really hargy-mon and ccp is going thru the logs to find a time when dude rebooted his router, or logged in at a library or something and his public ip is one number off even... and even if it's not for another year that he does that... they'll use that as a reason to give delve back to bob. or theyu'll just create a new area, much better than delve, and bob will "accidentally" be the first to discover it and will settle there. or some similar cheating meme.
Elo Behram Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:54:00 - [285] the issue with this explanation is that it isn't an explanation what criteria did Ken/BoB meet that entitled them to a name change? because up until now the only way you could cajole a name change out of CCP for anything (character, corporation, alliance) was to show that it was offensive, and lots of people have been refused some very trivial name changes for things like misspellings ~
Moonlight Express Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:55:00 - [286] Why there was not this kind of outrage from goons when members of NC were caught exploiting moons for years that produced most of NCs Titan and capital fleet? What's worst? Name change or exploits of trillions of isk? They should take away all of those ships that were produced from those exploited founds first and then they can take away the name. Deal?
Nahrix Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:56:00 - [287] Originally by: Garathyal Originally by: Nahrix This isn't about 'kicking BoB when he's down'. This is about CCP. BoB is merely tied to the situation because they happen to be the alliance that CCP is showing the alleged favoritism. Look at this thread. Goons aren't the only ones noticing the gravity of a situation in which a select group of players are allowed to cheat. The magnitude of the cheat does not matter; partially, this is a matter of principle; primarily, this is a matter that highlights the existance of a history of cheating which we all believed was behind us. We will assume you are cancelling your subs then. Don't let the door hit you on the ass as you leave. What? Instead of refuting my statement, it appears that you are saying I am correct in my assessment, and therefore must leave the game?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:56:00 - [288] Edited by: Avon on 24/03/2009 18:56:50 Originally by: Moonlight Express Why there was not this kind of outrage from goons when members of NC were caught exploiting moons for years that produced most of NCs Titan and capital fleet? What's worst? Name change or exploits of trillions of isk? They should take away all of those ships that were produced from those exploited founds first and then they can take away the name. Deal? Don't be silly, it isn't cheating if their side does it, it is emergent gameplay. アニメ漫画です
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:59:00 - [289] Originally by: Karezan I find all the ***ing amusing because I strongly believe the only reason for it is because Goonswarm (and friends) feels slighted for not being able to grief BoB as much as possible. Fail. Originally by:** Karezan If this really upsets you this much, quit. If you still believe CCP clearly favors BoB above all else, despite the long history and many many threads like this about different issues regarding BoB favoritism, I doubt this one will make the difference. The only thing that will is showing them how you feel by costing them money. But you won't do that, so I guess spamming is the next best option. Said in a thread which was started in response to spamming, irony etc. Originally by: Karezan If you were my employer, and I just never showed up for work, would you keep spamming me with emails telling me how upset you are that I never show up, but keep paying me anyway, expecting that one day I'll feel bad and change my mind? So your suggesting we quite EVE and get another EVE? Right. Originally by: Karezan That's similar to what's happening here. CCP has it's history of nepotism, and says they've dealt with that and now they are unbiased. If you honestly believe they lied, despite such a long history and so much drama surrounding the T20 case and other incidents, why do you think this thread will change anything? Especially when this is a very minor incident compared to the T20 one. The scandal last time changed things for the better. If you think this thread will change nothing, well you know what they say about doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result. - DesuSigs
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:59:00 - [290] They dealt with the moon mining to the best of knowledge that they allow to go public, the exploit was plugged and over 70 accounts were banned, so what does it matter? After all it's clear they were always going to fix it once CCP found out about it (or as soon as they were known to have known about it) in this particular case CCP aren't probably going to do anything. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.

OldPueblo DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.24 18:59:00 - [291] Originally by: Moonlight Express Why there was not this kind of outrage from goons when members of NC were caught exploiting moons for years that produced most of NCs Titan and capital fleet? What's worst? Name change or exploits of trillions of isk? They should take away all of those ships that were produced from those exploited founds first and then they can take away the name. Deal? Are you being serious? Because I can't really see that as a serious post.
Twoside Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:01:00 - [292] Originally by: Moonlight Express Why there was not this kind of outrage from goons when members of NC were caught exploiting moons for years that produced most of NCs Titan and capital fleet? What's worst? Name change or exploits of trillions of isk? They should take away all of those ships that were produced from those exploited founds first and then they can take away the name. Deal? proof or stfu.. ohwait there isnt any as the ones guilty got banned. Futhermore post with your main, coward.
Kheldon Fel	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:01:00 - [293] Originally by: Laura Rampart Originally by: Tobruk Edited by: Tobruk on 24/03/2009 18:31:14 Originally by: Laura Rampart Originally by: Tobruk For bob it just happend. And still you havent adressed a single one of my points - did any of the people who were killed by a privateer wardec get thier ships back? NO. should bob get its name back. NO. What about people who got suicide ganked, did they get their stuff back? NO. Did Bob get their territory back? NO Did Bob get their name back? NO The example above are only examples of when CCP changed rules. This discussion is about wheter CCP changed rules before and these are the proofs. no, because clearly THEY DIDNT CHANGE THE RULES even they havent claimed that. this discussion is about weather CCP broke the existing rules to give a special favor to one group. to me its pretty clear. to you... well your debating some other topic/ can't admit you have no point and simply hate goonswarm (which is fine i hate them too). You so fail at reading, they obviously changed the rule by stating: Originally by: GM_Grimmi This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment. So now, if you actually READ what the GM posted, you'd see that: -NOT THE FIRST TIME -WILL BE DONE FOR OTHERS if the same conditions are met Stain Empire, ARSED and a dozen other corps/alliances who were denied similar name changes would like to have a word with you.
Twoside Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:04:00 - [294] I'm not sure what's more pathetic, X13 alliance having their heads up their masters asscakes or incompetent ccp employees making their whole company look bad... over and over again. Sad :(
Aetec Raa	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:05:00 - [295] Originally by: Karezan I find all the ***ing amusing because I strongly believe the only reason for it is because Goonswarm (and friends) feels slighted for not being able to grief BoB as much as possible. If this really upsets you this much, quit. If you still believe CCP clearly favors BoB above all else, despite the long history and many many threads like this about different issues regarding BoB favoritism, I doubt this one will make the difference. The only thing that will is showing them how you feel by costing them money. But you won't do that, so I guess spamming is the next best option. If you were my employer, and I just never showed up for work, would you keep spamming me with emails telling me how upset you are that I never show up, but keep paying me anyway, expecting that one day I'll feel bad and change my mind? That's similar to what's happening here. CCP has it's history of nepotism, and says they've dealt with that and now they are unbiased. If you honestly believe they lied, despite such a long history and so much drama surrounding the T20 case and other incidents, why do you think this thread will change anything? Especially when this is a very minor incident compared to the T20 one. For me, these "vote with your wallet" arguments are the weakest of all. We all play Eve for a reason. Mostly because we are tired of the same ole *t we see from other MMO's. In all of the time that I have followed news from Eve the only accusations of favoritism that I have seen involves the same alliance, BoB. I have never met a member of the Goons or BoB in game or real life. I really don't care if one defeats the other or if they gang up on themselves and kill their own titans. The problem for me stems from CCP's willingness to change the rules as they see fit to benefit a single alliance. The option to vote with my wallet is always there. CCP can't control that. I would rather wait and see if they handle this according to the rules that they themselves have put forth. If they don't then I am always free to vote with my wallet when I feel a reasonable amount of time for them to deal with the situation has passed. I do find it suspicious that every charge of favoritism that I have seen has involved BoB somehow.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Freedom From Fear Industries	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:05:00 - [296] Originally by: Moonlight Express Why there was not this kind of outrage from goons when members of NC were caught exploiting moons for years that produced most of NCs Titan and capital fleet? What's worst? Name change or exploits of trillions of isk? They should take away all of those ships that were produced from those exploited founds first and then they can take away the name. Deal? so what you're saying, is that everyone that was a member of the alliance formerly known as kenzoku... should be treated in the same way --- banned? ok, i say go for it. great idea. maybe then the cheating will stop.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:10:00 - [297] Originally by: Aetec Raa I do find it suspicious that every charge of favoritism that I have seen has involved BoB somehow. Who could possibly benefit from those constant allegations? Even if they prove unfounded, mud sticks, right? I'm sure no part of the Eve community would even consider faking offense in order to further their own agenda. Unpossible. アニメ漫画です
Moonlight Express Amarr Moonlight Express Inc.	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:12:00 - [298] Originally by: Twoside Originally by: Moonlight Express Why there was not this kind of outrage from goons when members of NC were caught exploiting moons for years that produced most of NCs Titan and capital fleet? What's worst? Name change or exploits of trillions of isk? They should take away all of those ships that were produced from those exploited founds first and then they can take away the name. Deal? proof or stfu.. ohwait there isnt any as the ones guilty got banned. Futhermore post with your main, coward. Oh, so the 70 accounts that got banned never produced anything and NC members never received capitals from those people? 70 accounts was just a drop in the bucket of all of NC members that benefited from those exploits and if you think otherwise then you are dumber then you sound. But it does not matter to you that they cheated because it benefited you. Oh, and while you are at it, why donÆt you ask your NC buddies to stop posting with alts as well. Hypocrite.
Garathyal	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:16:00 - [299] Edited by: Garathyal on 24/03/2009 19:21:00 Originally by: Nahrix What? Instead of refuting my statement, it appears that you are saying I am correct in my assessment, and therefore must leave the game? Edit: So all of the players, from 0.0 to Empire, from Goons to members of Kenzoku themselves who believe that these cheated gains are not acceptable, should unsubscribe their accounts as well? That is absolutely what I am saying - I am not sure why you don't get it. I am betting a) you won't quit because you are not that bothered and b) even if you did the number of people who would follow you would be miniscule. So like I said if CCP is so bad off you go then..... The thing is you won't. Why? Because CCP is not the big failure you are talking about. The bottom line is no-one really cares and your claim is hardly worth responding to. As the saying goes. Put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise forget it and get on with your game.
Karezan	Posted - 2009.03.24 19:17:00 - [300] Originally by: Crumplecorn Said in a thread which was started in response to spamming, irony etc. Your point? I admitted spamming is the next best option to try and get this changed, just not a very good one. Originally by: Crumplecorn So your suggesting we quite EVE and get another EVE? Right. Another game. The fact that there is no game similar to EVE might make this harder, but the alternative is you support a company you dislike or hate. This is pretty much the norm for MMO's, people *** constantly but keep playing anyway, meaning there is little incentive for the company to take action, especially when you consider this will probably blow over in a week (at least the spamming part will). Originally by:** Crumplecorn The scandal last time changed things for the better. If you think this thread will change nothing, well you know what they say about doing the same thing twice and expecting a different result. Except people are saying nothing changed, BoB is still cheating, etc. How did it change things for the better last time, if the same issue that was around then is still around now? Last time: Big drama about favoritism, big changes supposedly happened, this won't happen again. Now: Big drama about favoritism, people expect changes, this time it really won't happen again, I promise! You know what they say about doing the same thing twice and expecting different results.



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