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Killitt	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:21:00 - [571] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: Lexa Hellfury Originally by: Kathrine Mordesa Lighten up its only a name. People who think this is about a name are pretty dumb. People who think this is about anything but a name are pretty dumb. goons spreading anti-eve propaganda again (&*( CCP! $#(! THIS GAME I QUIT AND I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE ELSE TO QUIT BLAH BLAH BLAH)... Oh wait, let me hear how they were going to do this secretly and sweep it under the rug.... I'm sure they thought no one would notice the change. after you tell me how this was another big secret/conspiracy you can tell me how goonswarm doesn't secretly want to ruin this game. i mean, just look at what their 'community' and 'culture' brings us.... Is stealing 5 dollars different then stealing 1000? I mean it's just 5 dollars....Just an illegal name change. What Goon doesn't bring us is "bending the rules" because daddy likes them better. They are very honest when it comes to their dishonesty.
Royaal	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:22:00 - [572] Originally by: Boknamar Edited by: Boknamar on 25/03/2009 07:50:38 Originally by: Count Bolton ... Yes, but the reason I like this game so much is the idea that the player's avatar starts with nothing, and through various means attempts to carve out a niche in the EVE universe. There are many different positions to occupy, and the different approaches that the player can use are vastly varied. They can range from assembling the weak together under one banner to joining with someone more powerful, and many things in between. What these ways have in common is that the player lives or dies, succeeds or fails, by their wits, resourcefulness, and determination. What drew me to the game initially, and kept me here even after some rough initial experiences, is that despite the harshness of the game world, it is in a way the most profoundly fair one that I have seen. The people kicking my knees out and grinding my face in the dirt are able to do so because they were given the same opportunities as everyone else, and managed to pull themselves into a superior position. From the beginning, everyone is set free to trample on one another to get to the top, and whether you're the oppressor or the oppressed, tomorrow is another day which may lead to power or ruin. When CCP hands out perks to a certain group of players, however minor, it calls into question their commitment to this vision of the game. I think the community is entitled to a little e-outrage whenever this happens. In the end, it helps keep CCP honest, or at least more wary about being dishonest. This 100%. More sandbox and less favoritism would be nice. You know how new or potential players say they couldn't get into EVE because of how the game favors whoever has been playing the longest? As a new player myself I can say that this is not helping.
Killitt	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:37:00 - [573] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia oh well allow me to retort! (i got this, chill out 'brosef') but if ccp changes their rules for bobr and not for someone else then the game is pointless for anyone to play and we should all leave. (let's not mention that this has nothign to do with the actual game) Pretty much....Which is why the fuss. We don't like to see our game tarnished by petty favoritism. CCP is receiving a public flogging for this, as well they should. Because the thing they really don't want to hear is the silence of cancellations "brosef"
Abba	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:40:00 - [574] Originally by: Tobruk I don't think CCP has a full appreciation of how dangerous a situation like this is to their game. It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself. How long will we tolerate this **?? Is it time for another open letter to CCP? no, its already gone past that point. Frankly I find this ** too hard to stomach: - spawning BPOS - Handing out motherships - Changing the titan memorial rules when molles titan died - refunding titans after saying they never would 2 Titans in game died to "broken mechanics" 1 AZN and 1 D2 both pilots petitioned the loss but no exception was given. A good policy. The game has rules, they can change, but until then we live, fly, and die by them. People care that its BOB you did it for, because you have a LONG history of doing them special favors, but it really doesnÆt matter that its BOB, most people recognize that. It matters that YOU broke the rules and gave someone special treatment. WhatÆs even more insulting is that you changed their name to Band of Brothers Reloaded, as though, by not giving them their original name back somehow it would be ok. How stupid do you think we are? What a disgusting insult. This action is shameful beyond words CCP. Your failure to act last time and your continued, blatant cheating is a slap in the face to every person who plays the game. To be fair I do remember at least one titan being reimbursed in the drone region. The titan memorial was only for the first titan no? I'm not sure what you are referring to with the handing out of mother ships, I remember there was a scandal where their mother ships were petitioned to be put into station which they then used to rig them. TBQH I don't think its a big deal at all the only people that really care are NC+pets and goonswarm+pets. I also don't know why there is so much whining. If you were the best alliance and had the vet pool bob does I bet you could get "special treatment" too. Unfortunately bob was/is the undisputed king of eve and still to a degree is. (How many other alliances could go through what they have and not disintegrated, and as soon as NC leaves you know it's pretty much over in delve for GS.) You got to remember bob has played a big role in building this game, and to add: Bob scandals gets press on Slashdot blogs and game news sites and it is quite large free advertisement. I've come back twice now after reading bob scandals and thinking ill see whats happening in eve lately. You can see it in the server numbers too. Big scandals = more money. Lets see a pandemic legion scandal bring ccp new players (lol). Regardless I can't be the only one that thinks its all pretty silly. It's not like they are gaining any special advantage over you in game for this one and tbqh it makes you all look like a bunch of crybabies. Note: if they got 'band of brothers' back I would agree that it was a righteously horrible decision by ccp, but goon gets to keep haargoths trophy of epic betrayal so who cares?
Chatea	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:44:00 - [575] Originally by: Count Bolton CCP has a long history of corruption and favoritism since day 1, even before BoB existed. It started with the 'Old Boys Club' of m0o, Evolution and RKK back during Castor years Internal QA knowledge of PvP exploits. Knowledge of market shifting patch changes before public release. Massive insider knowledge of the T2 BPO lottery and Aurora events flowed freely between these corporations. BoB crashing the nodes to win fleet battles wasn't just from their UK location. They exploited a flaw in how clients logged into the Tranquility server. It involved having a second game client open and filled, waiting on standby to forcibly disconnect your current client from the server. There were other methods involved, but it's an example how BoB had a deep understanding of eve's server mechanics and node balancing, as with other parts of the game. I used to work in ISD as a Bug Hunter, so I witnessed some of this corruption first-hand. The chaos server(original test server, before singularity existed) was a breeding ground for exploitation and insider knowledge. While I worked on squashing bugs, I would see other ISD members scouting out moons and enemy stations from the latest game backup. Some people also had '/spawn' privileges, and used it to gather insider knowledge on new equipment, game mechanics, and even exploits. I tried to report these problems myself, but they got swept under the rug by certain GMs and QA members. I remember Nebulai, the old Aurora lead calling me a liar, even after I caught some of his event staff cheating during an event(with slash commands), unfairly destroying other player's ships and property. I think the public opening of singularity server has been a large help in making EVE a level playing field. Everyone has equal rights to limitless equipment on the test server, and can tinker around with new patches and game changes. I also think transparency with the new ISD and event teams has gone a long way to remove favoritism and free giveaways of officer loot. Even though the impact of ISD, GM and developer corruption has been greatly reduced, I feel that CCP still doesn't take this kind of cheating seriously. Eve Online iron-clad naming policy has screwed over countless other people in the past due to its bitter fairness, and yet everything is waved for just one alliance. Not just any alliance; It's the same alliance that gets their hand caught in the cookie jar, every time. Aurora event scandals. 10/10 complexes with farmable overseers, exploiting aggro timers, bugged trade routes using titan portals, shooting players though starbase shields, crashing nodes down to a science, etc. The list is very, very long. For those that do not understand, this isn't about a simple name change. BoB used an already-existing 'alternate' alliance to fall back into after being disbanded, to immediately reclaim their sovereignty. The downside is they're stuck with using the alt-alliance, and must disband to create a more 'official' one. Using GM intervention, however, they are having their cake and eating it too. This is after the GM's told everyone else the cake was a lie. The widespread corruption is hard to quantify, as many players who went through it have already quit the game in disgust. I think the current player base will mainly cite the t20 scandal as their oldest memory, even though the free BPO's were trash and insignificant compared to t20's knowledge on how to control the lottery itself. I have also quit the game in disgust and no longer play EVE. I use this free account(gifted to me by kieron) to poke around and check out the new expansions every now and then. I thought the t20 scandal and creation of internal affairs would be the last time BoB was given any kind of favoritism by the higher powers. It saddens me that I was wrong. The tl;dr version: The cake is a lie, unless you're BoB. Then you get plenty of cake.
Colonel Xaven Decadence. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:48:00 - [576] This has a very bad taste and will go into EVE history again But it won't change the fate of this alliance of dev's "friends" with MSN connection to CCP. Just a little morale boost for them. Just a little. Proud member of RZR - Decadence.
Tanthius Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:53:00 - [577] Originally by: Colonel Xaven This has a very bad taste and will go into EVE history again But it won't change the fate of this alliance of dev's "friends" with MSN connection to CCP. Just a little morale boost for them. Just a little. You're right, it was of little to no consequence for the average BoB member. Reading the pages and pages of tears over something so trivial, now, is downright hilarious.
Vasili Z Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:53:00 - [578] seems fine to me ------- Eve requires no skill anymore
Niraco79 Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers Reloaded	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:57:00 - [579] Edited by: Niraco79 on 25/03/2009 08:58:08 Thank you CCP...because of this name change i killed a goon today....clearly i was not succesfully when i was a kenny, but killing kenny did wonders to me. PS the threadnaught is hillarious. Thank you..did not laugh so hard since the BoB disband.
Aranthil	Posted - 2009.03.25 08:58:00 - [580] To quote Mzr's excellent post that answers it all: "My case: After a few months of playing S9 ticker became available (didn't had it at that time). Kindly asked 2 times the GMs to give it to my corp since no-one was using it. "No, can't do!" So I had to close the corp - move all assets to corp members, get out/kick all corp members, and finally leave the corp only to re-do it 10min later with the ticker we wanted. Other examples: Stian Empire was created. Someone noticed the typo, told CCP. CCP told them to disband the alliance (and getting no refund from the 1bn isk needed to create it), recreate the alliance (and once again pay 1bn isk to create it) and make sure to spell the name correctly. black 0ut was created. Someone realized how dumb this was, and so they asked CCP to change it to Black Out. CCP told them no, and that they'd have to disband the alliance (and get no refund from the 1bn isk needed to create it), recreate the alliance (and once again pay 1bn isk to create it) and make sure to spell the name the way they wanted to. Against All Authorities had a slight mishap where someone didn't pay the maintenance build. They lost all their sovereignty, had to recreate the alliance, and had to once again front the 1bn isk fee. CCP did not reimburse any of that. BoBR's case: The EULA clearly doesn't give you ANY rights to have your alliance name changed. As for bad game mecanics when BoB was first dismantled, it was no-ones fault (in-game), the same faulty game mecanics apply to EVERYONE in-game (other alliances can suffer the same fate sooner or later - until CCP changes something). You went down thru legitimate in-game mecanis - have the spine to recognize it. The name itself has little importance (you can have yer old name back for all I care). But bending the EULA rules, still going strong for sov3 in some systems and not paying the 1bn bill - these FACTS clearly put CCP in a delicate position AGAIN because it clearly shows BoBR plays this game by one set of rules and us the rest by another set. First among equals. And lets make one thing clear, this is not BoBR's fault. This is a CCP failure, because they still want to interfere in Eve politics. Why is this happening.. idk, the only logical conclusion is that some people with A LOT of decisional power in CCP still have strong ties with BoBR. After the T20 problems, I sincerely doubt even lead GMs do something big like this without asking permision from the head-honchos. Eve is not CCP's love-child anymore, it's a cash cow. And it shows. Milk it while you can. However some people will never understand that money, even BIG money can be made in a number of ways. It doesn't have to be like this. If CSM has any voice whatsoever this issues will be on their agenda. And yes Internal Affairs should be notified about this, they should get mails from as many peeps as possible. Be decent, civil, but have a voice. Mail them! Btw, BoBR I hope you understand why a lot of Eve hates you now. It's not yer so-called elitism. It's the cheating you need to resort to in order to win something, it's the lenghts you go to bend the rules. As for sending us out for a walk in RL so we don't moan about internet spaceshipz business.. How about you follow yer own advice, and when you come back at the keyboard you try to play the game fair-play (and have some phun while you're at it). The irony is that it's not gonna matter in the end. Enough entities in-game have the means now to take you down completely and keep you down. You're not the elitist alliance you once were. You're just average now (as A LOT of other peeps got into A LOT of caps now). Fame lasts 15min, infamy lasts a bit longer." At least give other people the same rules you apply yo bob if you can t manage to apply core rules to them...

EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:01:00 - [581] Edited by: EdFromHumanResources on 25/03/2009 09:02:38 Originally by: Tanthius Originally by: Colonel Xaven This has a very bad taste and will go into EVE history again But it won't change the fate of this alliance of dev's "friends" with MSN connection to CCP. Just a little morale boost for them. Just a little. You're right, it was of little to no consequence for the average BoB member. Reading the pages and pages of tears over something so trivial, now, is downright hilarious. Even funnier would be watching you lose all your sov(again) when you tried to make a new alliance if you didn't get preferential treatment. Oh who am I kidding no ones going to kill those ten pos you have left in random ratting systems. Too busy killing the fleets you keep throwing against 49- edit: To the guy above me, the best part is they aren't winning. I am sure ISD will soon be covering their exploits in lowsec. ------------------------------------------------- Everyone hates goonswarm for one reason or another. ... And they promote ***gotism -Zurrar
Razoq Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:06:00 - [582] Originally by: GM Grimmi Yesterday we changed the name of the alliance KenZoku to Band of Brothers Reloaded as the result of a petition by their leadership. It has come to our attention that this was not a popular decision among some of our players and we’d like to take this opportunity to address those issues. We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action. The leadership of KenZoku/Band of Brothers did petition us immediately after they were disbanded and their name was taken. While we worked on the petition for about two months we do not feel that they should suffer because of that. Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case. This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment. you cannot be this stupid!
LoveKebab Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:15:00 - [583] Edited by: LoveKebab on 25/03/2009 09:16:55 Originally by: Deva Blackfire And no im not LK. liez ! Originally by: Razoq You cannot be this stupid! Or mabey you are i guess. grabs popcorn is this all going about the name ?! it's been done before, it will be done in future... why so bitter ?! xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial
HARYBARY Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:17:00 - [584] I make new post with an idea for using "Band of Developers" instead "Band of Brothers Realoded" but topic was locked 12 min later. WHY I"M NOT SURPRISED http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1033227
Sue Cheng	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:23:00 - [585] I think the name change is OK. Why not cut them some slack, now that they failed and broke up from the inside. Also Kenny was not so fun of a name. Now Band of Brothers Reloaded aka BOBr is fun for everyone: - Band of Brothers = WW2 Television Series - Reloaded = Matrix Movie Copyrighted and the Matrix Sequel that nobody wanted - BOBr means Beaver in russian - BOBr means something really dirty in Polish (would get censored out if I wrote it down) All quite funny things. Also funny that even the press and game magazines are picking it up and writing at least columns and some announced a full page on the topic. If this will be beneficial or not for CCP we will see, I for one hope it brings in more players... And last but not least, I got lots of characters that names are bad. Now that CCP has lowered their standards for that strict policy I can finally petition those...
CyberChick SiN. Corp Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:24:00 - [586] I don't play much if at all, mostly I just keep my the remainder of my 18 months game time card sub going after selling a character last year and work on skill training, I keep thinking about returning, but seeing this has pretty much changed my mind forever. So I think I will just about let the subscription run out, sell the character for isk then give it too some of my old corp mates for free. I have no opinion or interest in bob or goons, but the issue that concerns me is that its one rule for some and another for everyone else, from what I have been reading Bob/kenny(whatever you are atm) are going to defend this as simply nothing, I disagree strongly, there are hundreds of thousands of subscriptions for eve, and yet 3000+ of them are getting preferential treatment - Did I miss the tick box on the character creation screen all those years ago? Trying to get through the mind of those that dismiss this as nothing, while at the same time not being a member of the bobr/whatever means they will never get the same treatment either. I'm somewhat out of touch with who is bobs allies, but if you count yourself as one of those alliances/corporations do you think you could get your character/corp/alliance name changed by a petition when other entities mentioned earlier like stain empire couldn't?
Razoq Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:28:00 - [587] Edited by: Razoq on 25/03/2009 09:28:53 Originally by: LoveKebab Edited by: LoveKebab on 25/03/2009 09:16:55 Originally by: Deva Blackfire And no im not LK. liez ! Originally by: Razoq You cannot be this stupid! Or mabey you are i guess. grabs popcorn is this all going about the name ?! it's been done before, it will be done in future... why so bitter ?! You are about as clueless as your alliance arnt you? Dont care about the name i care about the rules..
Deva Blackfire D00M.	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:28:00 - [588] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/03/2009 09:29:17 Originally by: Sue Cheng - BOBr means something really dirty in Polish (would get censored out if I wrote it down) Actually bobr (b=br) in Polish is also a beaver. But sometimes is used to describe other thing, which would get censored here :) @ poster above bitterness is leaking out of you. Want a tissue?
Lord Blandness	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:32:00 - [589] Originally by: GM Grimmi Yesterday we changed the name of the alliance KenZoku to Band of Brothers Reloaded as the result of a petition by their leadership. It has come to our attention that this was not a popular decision among some of our players and weÆd like to take this opportunity to address those issues. We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action. The leadership of KenZoku/Band of Brothers did petition us immediately after they were disbanded and their name was taken. While we worked on the petition for about two months we do not feel that they should suffer because of that. Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case. This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment. Could you cite another instance where a name was changed for a reason besides being vulgar
Razoq Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:34:00 - [590] Edited by: Razoq on 25/03/2009 09:35:37 Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 25/03/2009 09:29:17 Originally by: Sue Cheng - BOBr means something really dirty in Polish (would get censored out if I wrote it down) Actually bobr (b=br) in Polish is also a beaver. But sometimes is used to describe other thing, which would get censored here :) @ poster above bitterness is leaking out of you. Want a tissue? No bitterness here I like playing third world MMO'S so much drama..

HabeousCorpus	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:35:00 - [591] It is sad to see CCP twist and turn to justify their latest Bob favour. Its like a drug or something, they feel compelled to play with fire - knowing that every favour handed out to bob damages the game, their reputation as a company, and their reputation as individuals. GM Grimmi may have been ordered to write that piece of trash, but if somebody said that to my face I'd call them a liar - Its insulting.
Sic Volo	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:37:00 - [592] So dear Beavers or BoD-s, you just got two brand new bonus names among the comunity, and that will not be the end I gues. Congrats :) I will try to open a threat, kind of Best Name contest and players may help ya in finding your identity. Let see how long it will be open :)
Donatien de'Sade Ars Notoria	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:40:00 - [593] This must have had the sanction of a very senior dev... Grateful if you could tell us which of the top CCP personnel are in bob/KenZ/.bob. and to be fair, which ones are in other 0.0 alliances (taking into account all their alts ofc). No need to out the characters themselves. In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move
Lubre Ztripp	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:45:00 - [594] Originally by: Sic Volo So dear Beavers or BoD-s, you just got two brand new bonus names among the comunity, and that will not be the end I gues. Congrats :) I will try to open a threat, kind of Best Name contest and players may help ya in finding your identity. Let see how long it will be open :) Im going with "The Beaver Brothers"
Maria Dalin	Posted - 2009.03.25 09:48:00 - [595] Its simply outrageous that so many ppl used so many words in so pathetic thread. You know that from the time that goons have sov over Delve, there is fewer DB spawns there...haxorz.
LoveKebab Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:00:00 - [596] Originally by: Razoq You are about as clueless as your alliance arnt you? Dont care about the name i care about the rules.. lol then tell me what rules were broken when GMs changed KZN name to BoB.R ? cuz that was the whole post u quoted about name change and u saying im clueless when i said its been done before :O u r just sad :( xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial
Different Tan	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:01:00 - [597] Edited by: Different Tan on 25/03/2009 10:01:52 This is not about Goons or Bob. Nobody cares about bob or goons, except bob and goons. What people do care about is CCP giving Bob favours OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. And then giving us crap non-excuses like "Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case". (because it would be mean, presumably, and we cant have that).
Itt Burns	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:06:00 - [598] It would be intresting to know what bobbits think about bending rules like this. Originally by: Avon, BNC, Band of Brothers Reloaded What I want are rules that are enforced fairly and equally. If something is not allowed, then it should be the same for everyone. If something is allowed, then it should be the same for everyone. How hard is that to understand? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=245785&page=7#186 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/245785/page/7#182 Thank you for agreeing with the rest of us non-bobbits.
Khanto Thor Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:07:00 - [599] BoBr fails in attempt to build outpost
Razoq Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 10:13:00 - [600] Originally by: LoveKebab Originally by: Razoq You are about as clueless as your alliance arnt you? Dont care about the name i care about the rules.. lol then tell me what rules were broken when GMs changed KZN name to BoB.R ? cuz that was the whole post u quoted about name change and u saying im clueless when i said its been done before :O u r just sad :( ok give an example when it has happened before where an alliance has not had to pay a billion isk and reset all the sov in systems controlled? even over a stupid typo like Stian and black Out. They could have set it up to use BoBR from day one after the disband but instead they went with an alt alliance kenzuko to get a jump start on gaining sov back. if you need help you can read the few hundred other posts on this subject. like if that would help.. i know im such an optimist damn me to hell... P.S thanx for waisting this 3 minutes of my life...



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