Originally by: GM Grimmi

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We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action.

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Originally by: Donatien de'Sade

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So, what is a reasonable timeframe? How old was ZenZoku again?

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Originally by: Vashan Tar

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When their alliance was disbanded using in game mechanics they had the option of either reforming a new alliance (losing sov) or joining an existing one (kenzoku) and losing their name.

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Originally by: Lyer

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If I could catch the goon tears about to flow in this thread I could end many a drought.

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Originally by: Montasque

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for a topic that is being taken very seriously by most of the player base.

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Originally by: masternerdguy

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Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.

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Originally by: Vashan Tar

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Standard Goon emorage

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Originally by: Cheeba Don

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Put the pitchforks down folks, Franken already lost all his space.

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Originally by: Montasque

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Originally by: Lyer

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If I could catch the goon tears about to flow in this thread I could end many a drought.

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Yeah, goons suck, I get it. Instead of trolling can you please add some constructive criticism one way or another?

I'd love to hear the argument for how this is NOT favoritism.

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Anyway...sure, favoritism is noticed here, but who really cares about a name change.

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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Quote:

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So you're saying if they waited to re-form their Alliance... the consequence would have been that they would have lost Sov correct?

In order to re-form quickly they had to use this already created Alliance with a different name, right?

So, they had a choice... either lose Sov, or lose their name. They made a choice to keep sov.

So what rule is it that says if you don't like the consequence of your decision... CCP will adjust the game to fit your needs? I'm sure A LOT of scammed people would like to petition CCP under this new rule of "Not having to take responsibility for your actions".

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Edited by: Sertan Deras on 24/03/2009 15:31:10
So, lets see here:

According to you, there is precedent for this. I think that we are due to hear what that precedent is. Since we can produce several examples of cases where you DID NOT do an alliance name change when requested, I think it's fair if you provided cases where you (supposedly) did.

Also, what is a timely manner? KenZoku existed as an alliance for quite some time before they decided to use it as a sov holding entity. In addition, I find it very strange it took you two months to decide this was a good idea.

Since these are supposedly the new rules of alliance name changing, I think we are owed a complete and descriptive explanation as to what those new rules are, and what precedent was in place to change those rules so abruptly.

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Originally by: Cendaliaa

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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you new to the game or just acting as a troll?
like every gm said to any alliance that wanted to change their name "disband" and create a new alliance, so what happens when you disband an alliance and have sov?

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Originally by: Montasque

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Instead of trolling can you please add some constructive criticism one way or another?

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Originally by: Mr M

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Yet another emo whine thread from Goons? Please go back to CAOD. There's a reason why I don't read that and I don't what to see your whining here.

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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Originally by: Tobruk

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I don't think CCP has a full appreciation of how dangerous a situation like this is to their game.

It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself. How long will we tolerate this ****??

Is it time for another open letter to CCP? no, its already gone past that point.

Frankly I find this **** too hard to stomach:

- spawning BPOS
- Handing out motherships
- Changing the titan memorial rules when molles titan died
- refunding titans after saying they never would

2 Titans in game died to "broken mechanics" 1 AZN and 1 D2 both pilots petitioned the loss but no exception was given. A good policy. The game has rules, they can change, but until then we live, fly, and die by them.

People care that its BOB you did it for, because you have a LONG history of doing them special favors, but it really doesnÆt matter that its BOB, most people recognize that. It matters that YOU broke the rules and gave someone special treatment. WhatÆs even more insulting is that you changed their name to Band of Brothers Reloaded, as though, by not giving them their original name back somehow it would be ok. How stupid do you think we are? What a disgusting insult.

This action is shameful beyond words CCP. Your failure to act last time and your continued, blatant cheating is a slap in the face to every person who plays the game.

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Originally by: Pnuka

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Thanks for the timely reponse.

Here in America, we follow rules and laws to the exact letter, part of the reason we are so god damn good at everything. Your US based clients are just not as sensitive as myself to the Euroasia way of doing things is all.

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Pnuka

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Thanks for the timely reponse.

Here in America, we follow rules and laws to the exact letter, part of the reason we are so god damn good at everything. Your US based clients are just not as sensitive as myself to the Euroasia way of doing things is all.

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Ahh, there's the trolling we missed.

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Originally by: Cendaliaa

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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you new to the game or just acting as a troll?
like every gm said to any alliance that wanted to change their name "disband" and create a new alliance, so what happens when you disband an alliance and have sov?

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I'm actually new to the game, but whatever...

From what I've read BoB DID lose sov when the alliance was disbanded and had to start over. Their name was taken so it was petitioned, but it took until now to actually get it changed. So...I don't think this is favoritism or any of that sort, but I'm not 100% sure until CCP gives examples of doing this for other alliances.

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Edited by: Agent Known on 24/03/2009 15:35:31

Originally by: Cendaliaa

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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you new to the game or just acting as a troll?
like every gm said to any alliance that wanted to change their name "disband" and create a new alliance, so what happens when you disband an alliance and have sov?

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I'm actually new to the game, but whatever...

From what I've read BoB DID lose sov when the alliance was disbanded and had to start over. Their name was taken so it was petitioned, but it took until now to actually get it changed. So...I don't think this is favoritism or any of that sort, but I'm not 100% sure until CCP gives examples of doing this for other alliances.

Edit: I don't believe KenZoku had sov when they first petitioned for their name back, so it wouldn't be fair to have to lose what they gained simply because the petition took so long.

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Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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That's what I wonder too.

I for one am certainly not going to get involved in any CSM topic about this stuff.

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.

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Originally by: Tobruk

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It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself.

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Originally by: Hanabi Kazan

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.

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Please name one example of this happening to somebody other than KenZoku.

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Originally by: masternerdguy

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Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.

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Originally by: Hanabi Kazan

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.

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Please name one example of this happening to somebody other than KenZoku.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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words, snipped for thread brevity

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Originally by: Gone'Postal

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Originally by: Hanabi Kazan

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.

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Please name one example of this happening to somebody other than KenZoku.

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Given it's written in the future context, are you asking CCP to forsee the future?

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Originally by: Anne M. Lindbergh

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There is no sin punished more implacably by nature than the sin of resistance to change

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Originally by: ToTheCore

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Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Is it seriously THAT big of a deal...?

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That's what I wonder too.

I for one am certainly not going to get involved in any CSM topic about this stuff.

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And why the **** not? This is an issue the players clearly care about, so unless you were only using the CSM as a platform to advance ideas that you cared about (suicide ganking, for instance), there is no reason why you and the CSM shouldn't have a discussion about this.

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Originally by: Mr M

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Originally by: Tobruk

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It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself.

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If CCP helped BoB, why doesn't it show?

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Originally by: Pnuka

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Here in America, we follow rules and laws to the exact letter

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Originally by: ry ry

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it's a non-issue. the only people who care what bob are called are bob and, predictably, goons.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Mr M

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Originally by: Tobruk

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It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself.

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If CCP helped BoB, why doesn't it show?

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Yeah, you'd think CCP's pet alliance would have more space.
If CCP was really in BoB's pocket, they would have 'determined' that Haargoth was 'hacked' and rolled back the Alliance disbanding.

But don't mind me, continue threadnaughting.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Mr M

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Originally by: Tobruk

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It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself.

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If CCP helped BoB, why doesn't it show?

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Yeah, you'd think CCP's pet alliance would have more space.
If CCP was really in BoB's pocket, they would have 'determined' that Haargoth was 'hacked' and rolled back the Alliance disbanding.

But don't mind me, continue threadnaughting.

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action.

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case.

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Originally by: Hanabi Kazan

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.

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Please name one example of this happening to somebody other than KenZoku.

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Originally by: ry ry

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it's a non-issue. the only people who care what bob are called are bob and, predictably, goons.

Since goons have nailed their colours to the whole "we got bob renamed lolololbrosef aren't we terrible~~~~" thing it'd be a bit disappointing for them if all their victory archived was to append the word 'reloaded' onto the end of bob's name. plus it's an excuse to churn up some internet drama. lolololol CCP are terrible at eve brosef~~~~

Bob don't want to be called Ken because it's a funking awful name and they really didn't think very carefully about it as they scrambled to fix the disbanding mess.

i'd be disappointed if the CSM dedicate more than 5 minutes to discussing this nonsense.

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Originally by: Dmian

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I understand GoonSwarm point (but not thanks to the GSs themselves and the CAOD thread, which is shameful, but thanks to LaVista Vista who put things clearly for me to understand.)

But I have a question:
How much sov did Kenzoku had at the time of the "takeover" by the ex-BOB?
Because, if most of the sov was gained after BOB was disbanded (and the petition was made,) and the existing Kenzoku sov was negligible, then it would be a case of CCP just asking for 1B ISK and change the frakking name. Case closed.

But if Kenzoku had almost the same sov it holds right now, then I agree with the questions raised by LaVista Vista.

Anyway, the only part with full knowledge to understand this affair (precise data, reasoning on the petition, etc.) is CCP. I'd like to have further information about it.

BTW: have Goons sent an email to Internal Affairs yet due to his?

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Originally by: ry ry

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it's a non-issue. the only people who care what bob are called are bob and, predictably, goons.

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Originally by: Gilbert Drillerson

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After the rename was reported, they all gave up... They wont join a game where cheaters ate CCP employees....

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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quote]Because CCP being on BoB's side at all immediately implies that they will do anything and everything to help them. Because the world is, you know, black and white.

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Originally by: Vashan Tar

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I'm sorry, but this is total bull.

When their alliance was disbanded using in game mechanics they had the option of either reforming a new alliance (losing sov) or joining an existing one (kenzoku) and losing their name.
You have shown that kenny still have a third option, being get on the batphone and get the game changed to their liking.
I thought we had stopped this since the T20/aurora crap, sad to see this it not the case.

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Originally by: clone 1

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"Please keep in mind that the names cannot be changed after you have created the account, character or corporation so please take care what you name them."

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Originally by: masternerdguy

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Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.

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Originally by: Montasque

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1.) KenZoku had a handful of sov 3's, in Delve. I believe it was the primary reason they were chosen. But once all the ex-bob corps joined KenZoku their corp towers started claiming sov in all ex-bob systems, effectively giving them sov 1 on the first day.

2.) We all the play the same game, we should all be under the same rules. Regardless of SOV, this name change is unprecedented, and it underlines the relationship between ccp and bob, one that has a history of favoritism and corruption.

3.) I believe we are addressing this issue through proper channels, like the CSM, internal affairs, ect.

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Originally by: Anne M. Lindbergh

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There is no sin punished more implacably by nature than the sin of resistance to change

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Originally by: Montasque

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Regardless of SOV, this name change is unprecedented, and it underlines the relationship between ccp and bob, one that has a history of favoritism and corruption.

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Originally by: Mr M

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Originally by: Tobruk

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It is so ungodly frustrating to fight an entity in game that has developer support, its like your fighting the game itself.

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If CCP helped BoB, why doesn't it show?

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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Originally by: Mr M

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Originally by: Pnuka

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Here in America, we follow rules and laws to the exact letter

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Define waterboarding

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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Originally by: Montasque

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Yeah, goons suck, I get it. Instead of trolling can you please add some constructive criticism one way or another?

I'd love to hear the argument for how this is NOT favoritism.

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Originally by: Pnuka

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Thanks for the timely reponse.

Here in America, we follow rules and laws to the exact letter, part of the reason we are so god damn good at everything. Your US based clients are just not as sensitive as myself to the Euroasia way of doing things is all.

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Originally by: Captain ULTIMATE

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So go back and read what you read except pretend we are talking about people being scammed. CCP has never rewarded people that "don't think carefully" which is what has made EVE a better game to play then most. Real consequences. Kenzoku made a choice, they can live with it.

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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Originally by: Greme

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Originally by: Montasque

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Regardless of SOV, this name change is unprecedented, and it underlines the relationship between ccp and bob, one that has a history of favoritism and corruption.

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Actually, on this note: Wasn't POS Bowling only really changed after a BoB precedent aswell?

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Originally by: Carver DiGriz

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Just to qualify: I am not Goon and not a Bob(R), although BoB is set red by my corp. I just started this game in '08 after reading about EVE in a Slate. Internet spaceships seemed fun and psuedo-social, but still operating within the rubric of a game with rules printed on the box lid. Good enough. I am loathe to don a tinfoil hat and would generally hope to avoid foolish conspiracies and flame throwing, but really?

Not for nothing... I think this stinks. What, were the BoB picnic napkins already ordered and it was too late to get the deposit back form the printer? Because I might be able to understand that.

I really don't know, so I am asking here
One: Can a ticker begin with a "."
Two: Is there a naming convention limiting an Alliance name to 24 characters

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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Originally by: ry ry

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rules are not being broken

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Originally by: ry ry

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sadly in this case it's a name change and no matter how much you try to blow it out of perspective, or imply that it is proof of some greater level of shadowy cheating, it's essentially meaningless.

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Originally by: CCP Atropos

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Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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I'm just saying you all need to step back and look at the big picture.

I really don't think this is a big deal since CCP could have rolled back sov had they wanted to.

So they changed the name of some alliance that holds a handful of systems. How does this effect the game?

You still know who to hate. Now get off this forum and go blow something up.

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Quote:

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provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe

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Originally by: clone 1

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Edited by: clone 1 on 24/03/2009 16:03:12

Originally by: ry ry

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it's a non-issue. the only people who care what bob are called are bob and, predictably, goons.

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Sorry but you are wrong. I don't like goons, I don't like them more than I don't like BOB/.BOB. .

It affects me because I was denied a 'name change' (all I wanted was a capital 'C') and was denied due to the rules by which everybody in the game are governed, and it applies to me because our old alliance was denied a change of 'U' to 'u' (within the first hours of creating the alliance) based on the rules by which everybody in the game are governed. Everybody it seems except BOB.

Rules are rules until a BOB incident changes them.

"Please keep in mind that the names cannot be changed after you have created the account, character or corporation so please take care what you name them."

"Player-run corporations, factions, organizations and player-owned items within the EVE Online game world are also subject to these rules and policies."

http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/namepolicy.asp

That's why I am ****ed off. THAT'S WHY.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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I'm just saying you all need to step back and look at the big picture.

I really don't think this is a big deal since CCP could have rolled back sov had they wanted to.

So they changed the name of some alliance that holds a handful of systems. How does this effect the game?

You still know who to hate. Now get off this forum and go blow something up.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: ry ry

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rules are not being broken

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You've kind of missed the point here, haven't you?

Originally by: ry ry

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sadly in this case it's a name change and no matter how much you try to blow it out of perspective, or imply that it is proof of some greater level of shadowy cheating, it's essentially meaningless.

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The 'greater level of shadowy cheating' has come and gone, all people are looking for is proof that it has the potential to occur again. Are you new here or what?

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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I'm just saying you all need to step back and look at the big picture.

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Originally by: Kay Han

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Lol u shouldnt have posted Grimmi...

They had a ****ed director who disbanded them... They joined their alt alliance in order to keep souv in a few systems.
No big deal till then... everythings legal.

But having u guys jump up and down like Molle says isnt an Option, tbh...

There were NO, ABSOLUTLY NO reason for u guys to change the name of Kenzoku to band of Brothers Reloaded (which is even more worse then Kenzoku tbh)

U just screwed a lot of Players... A lot.

But yeahhh i think just another scandal of this dimension is what the game really really and very badly needed...

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Originally by: ry ry

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sadly in this case it's a name change and no matter how much you try to blow it out of perspective, or imply that it is proof of some greater level of shadowy cheating, it's essentially meaningless.

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Originally by: Greme

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Actually, on this note: Wasn't POS Bowling only really changed after a BoB precedent aswell?

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

---

You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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I'm just saying you all need to step back and look at the big picture.

I really don't think this is a big deal since CCP could have rolled back sov had they wanted to.

So they changed the name of some alliance that holds a handful of systems. How does this effect the game?

You still know who to hate. Now get off this forum and go blow something up.

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Originally by: Mathin Storm

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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I'm just saying you all need to step back and look at the big picture.

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and the big picture is that they changed BoB's name and not any of the other alliances that petitioned for it. so why BoB and not the others?

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Originally by: ry ry

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perhaps they would do better looking for a sense of perspective?

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Until then, innocent until proven guilty (regarding this issue at least).

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Originally by: Montasque

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Corruption is a slippery slope. This time it's a name change, next time it will be something bigger that has large in-game ramifications. It's not acceptable and showing favoritism one way or another has to stop.

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Originally by: Gefunkt

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Originally by: ry ry

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sadly in this case it's a name change and no matter how much you try to blow it out of perspective, or imply that it is proof of some greater level of shadowy cheating, it's essentially meaningless.

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Given the proven history of of cheating between the two entities in question, we are 100% correct in demanding a greater level of transparency.

On one side, we have BOBR. On the other, we have several examples of alliances that requested a renaming due to typos and were denied. What makes the case of BOBR different from the case of, say, Stain Allaince?

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Originally by: Zang Hoor

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Originally by: clone 1

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[stuff

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can i have your stuff ? whining ?

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Originally by: Nimue Medb

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Hell if you don't like it, can't stomach it, feel let down or feel your e-peen is suddenly smaller than it was when you woke up, take a stand and leave instead of whining in these forums. It's doing my head in.

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Originally by: ry ry

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hey, i don't care what they're called or if CCP changed their name for them. i also don't think the issue warrants the sort of tedious FAUX INTERNET OUTRAGE it's going to illicit.

sadly in this case it's inconsequential (beyond the additional load on the servers) and no matter how much you try to blow it out of perspective, or imply that it is proof of some greater level of shadowy cheating, it's essentially meaningless.

if you really want to show CCP how angry you are, vote with your feet. once all those canceled subs start hitting them in the bank-account they'll be forced to reconsider their evil cheating ways.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: ry ry

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perhaps they would do better looking for a sense of perspective?

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Another proponent of "this is a minor issue and we can safely say that CCP would never do anything significant to help BoB"?

You've convinced me. CCP would certainly never do anything that actually made a material difference, like say spawning BPOs. That would never happen.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Until then, innocent until proven guilty (regarding this issue at least).

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They've already been proven guilty in the past. This is not an isolated issue. It is up to them to prove that they haven't been up to the same kind of crap again this time.

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Originally by: Shenko Minara

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Originally by: Greme

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Actually, on this note: Wasn't POS Bowling only really changed after a BoB precedent aswell?

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POS Bowling: using the bumping mechanics, extreme size of capitals/supercapitals, and ability to land ships at any point in space, in order to bump ships out of the protective POS shield.

BoB and allied forced took to this with their Titans and Motherships. Shortly after Goonswarm built a Titan and joined in, it was deemed to be an exploit.

Take that as you will.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Until then, innocent until proven guilty (regarding this issue at least).

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They've already been proven guilty in the past. This is not an isolated issue. It is up to them to prove that they haven't been up to the same kind of crap again this time.

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Wow, remind me to never have you in a Jury.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Giving up instead of trying to fix problems is always the better solution.

As for this forum doing your head in, hell if you don't like it, can't stomach it, feel let down or feel your e-peen is suddenly smaller than it was when you woke up, take a stand and leave instead of whining in these forums.

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Originally by: Shenko Minara

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Originally by: Greme

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Actually, on this note: Wasn't POS Bowling only really changed after a BoB precedent aswell?

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POS Bowling: using the bumping mechanics, extreme size of capitals/supercapitals, and ability to land ships at any point in space, in order to bump ships out of the protective POS shield.

BoB and allied forced took to this with their Titans and Motherships. Shortly after Goonswarm built a Titan and joined in, it was deemed to be an exploit.

Take that as you will.

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Also, to all you people white knighting CCP, especially the ones who are relatively new players: I highly, HIGHLY suggest you go educate yourself on a little incident involving one CCP employee named T20 and, coincidentally enough, the very alliance who received their free name change card a couple of days ago.

Until you do, you honestly just look terribly stupid to the rest of us.

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Originally by: Greme

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<funny image that doesn't need to be quoted>

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Originally by: Gone'Postal

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Originally by: Montasque

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for a topic that is being taken very seriously by most of the player base.

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Can you define most? and post stats of your data collection on such wording. I'd like to view your numbers.

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Originally by: ry ry

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T20 giving his player-character a ****load of RPs on the sly is very different to Bob successfully petitioning their own name following a 2 month (!!!) investigation by CCP, you big drama lama you.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Until then, innocent until proven guilty (regarding this issue at least).

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They've already been proven guilty in the past. This is not an isolated issue. It is up to them to prove that they haven't been up to the same kind of crap again this time.

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Wow, remind me to never have you in a Jury.

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I'm sorry. I didn't realise we were in pretend court. Ok, let's do it the court way. I call T20 as a character witness for CCP.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Originally by: ry ry

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T20 giving his player-character a ****load of RPs on the sly is very different to Bob successfully petitioning their own name following a 2 month (!!!) investigation by CCP, you big drama lama you.

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Since the implication is dev involvement in BoB, they are not that different at all.

Also, I wouldn't trust the whole 2-month thing. The idea that it took CCP 2 months to decide to help BoB alone comes off a ridiculous, but adding on that after all that careful deliberation they would then decide to ok it at a time when it would cause far more trouble than if they had done it straight away is unfathomable. It literally requires you to believe that they put a lot of thought into it because they were reluctant to help BoB, then suddenly without thinking helped BoB. What?

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Originally by: rValdez5987

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Well now that goons arent blue I can really speak my mind a bit better.

Stop crying goons. You have their space so why do you care about what they call themselves?

The truth to that is you will never be satisfied until Band of Brothers ceases to exist in any form, a goal which you will NEVER reach.

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Originally by: Leellu Multipass

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As a long time player who's been a player since the days of beta I find this unacceptable.

It is blatant favoritism. And after everything CCP has went trough because of the favoritism towards the alliance formerly known as BoB doing this just tells us that you don't care about maintaining a game that has a fair playing field for all the players.

I spoke with my wallet when the t20 incident came out and I quit the game for 2 years. Only to come back and see that nothing changed.

If you're going to have a GM/Developer alliance then please come out publicly and stop deceiving the player base.

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Originally by: Igus

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this is really just another step (and probably the most effective as of yet) in theit"need for speed" changes. what better way to reduce lag than to **** off players enough to leave the game. its brilliant ccp! oh please oh please will you lend me someone to manage my company i really need customer suport like only you can give!

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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Yesterday we changed the name of the alliance KenZoku to Band of Brothers Reloaded as the result of a petition by their leadership. It has come to our attention that this was not a popular decision among some of our players and weÆd like to take this opportunity to address those issues.

We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action. The leadership of KenZoku/Band of Brothers did petition us immediately after they were disbanded and their name was taken. While we worked on the petition for about two months we do not feel that they should suffer because of that. Having them disband and lose sovereignty again was not deemed appropriate in this case.

This action was limited to changing their name, as we have done before for others - we did not assist them in regaining their sovereignty after the Band of Brothers alliance was disbanded, nor did we assist with that now. Any other corporation or alliance finding themselves in the same situation would get the same treatment.


For those of you wishing to discuss this please use the two existing threads on the topic:
In CAOD: Kenzoku goes Super Saiyan, transforms into ~Band of Brothers Reloaded~
And if you cannot post there, there is also a thread in the Assembly Hall: [Proposal] Disband BOBR

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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I'm sorry. I didn't realise we were in pretend court. Ok, let's do it the court way. I call T20 as a character witness for CCP.

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Yes, one bad employee who was not reprimanded properly proves all of CCP is corrupt.

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Originally by: Corban Mah

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Considering 3000 people got screwed over because of poor game mechanics, I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be allowed to change at least their name.


Goonfail needs to stfu and everyone else complaining too.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Yes, one bad employee who was not reprimanded properly proves all of CCP is corrupt.

Yes, he should have been fired.

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Originally by: Agent Known

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Edited by: Agent Known on 24/03/2009 15:25:45
Mountains out of molehiles...just let them have their name and take it from them by force.

Seriously, what's wrong with it? CCP can do whatever they wish since they own the game. If you don't like the change, can I have your stuff?

Anyway...sure, favoritism is noticed here, but who really cares about a name change. It's not like they got a full set of T3 BPOs or something.

Edit: Also, *puts on fire suit*

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 24/03/2009 16:48:26

Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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I'm sorry. I didn't realise we were in pretend court. Ok, let's do it the court way. I call T20 as a character witness for CCP.

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Yes, one bad employee who was not reprimanded properly proves all of CCP is corrupt.

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If all you've got are sarcastic remarks, remind me never to hire you as a lawyer.

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Originally by: Shenko Minara

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Originally by: Greme

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Actually, on this note: Wasn't POS Bowling only really changed after a BoB precedent aswell?

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POS Bowling: using the bumping mechanics, extreme size of capitals/supercapitals, and ability to land ships at any point in space, in order to bump ships out of the protective POS shield.

BoB and allied forced took to this with their Titans and Motherships. Shortly after Goonswarm built a Titan and joined in, it was deemed to be an exploit.

Take that as you will.

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Originally by: clone 1

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Edited by: clone 1 on 24/03/2009 16:03:12

Originally by: ry ry

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it's a non-issue. the only people who care what bob are called are bob and, predictably, goons.

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Sorry but you are wrong. I don't like goons, I don't like them more than I don't like BOB/.BOB. .

It affects me because I was denied a 'name change' (all I wanted was a capital 'C') and was denied due to the rules by which everybody in the game are governed, and it applies to me because our old alliance was denied a change of 'U' to 'u' (within the first hours of creating the alliance) based on the rules by which everybody in the game are governed. Everybody it seems except BOB.

Rules are rules until a BOB incident changes them.

"Please keep in mind that the names cannot be changed after you have created the account, character or corporation so please take care what you name them."

"Player-run corporations, factions, organizations and player-owned items within the EVE Online game world are also subject to these rules and policies."

http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/namepolicy.asp

That's why I am ****ed off. THAT'S WHY.

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Originally by: Capa

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So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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For those that are missing the clear cut issue here, unless I'm mistaken (always possible) we ended up having to fight under sov 3 conditions (jammers) in systems that wouldn't have had sov 3 yet if BoB hadn't used the shortcut taking over the Kenzoku alliance to get sov 1 immediately. They were able to use that shortcut and then later get their name changed to what they wanted (lol beave). So it's more then just a name change, it influenced sov mechanics "on the battlefield" and also broke a strict policy with years of enforcement behind it. The first one isn't that big a deal because it came with a penalty of them having to identify themselves with a name that sets young boys all a quiver, but the fact that they could then reverse it goes against all that EVE is about. Real consequences.

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Originally by: Cailais

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Simply put there should be a mechanism within the game that allows Characters, Corps and Alliances to modify or change their name - subject to a fee - and provided the 'old' name is recorded in a publicly viewable history.

C.

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Originally by: Cailais

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Simply put there should be a mechanism within the game that allows Characters, Corps and Alliances to modify or change their name - subject to a fee - and provided the 'old' name is recorded in a publicly viewable history.

C.

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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So... what were we talking about?

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Honestly, all these people complaining about corruption need to vote with their wallets.

Why continue paying CCP to cheat against you?

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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That's funny because during the weekend, I saw Goonswarm doing POS bowling. And wait, what? It's legal because they have the POS's shield password.

I love uninformed people

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Originally by: Ironnight

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Wow the system works and people whine? What is it with you people?

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Originally by: Ironnight

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Wow the system works and people whine? What is it with you people?

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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For those that are missing the clear cut issue here, unless I'm mistaken (always possible) we ended up having to fight under sov 3 conditions (jammers) in systems that wouldn't have had sov 3 yet if BoB hadn't used the shortcut taking over the Kenzoku alliance to get sov 1 immediately. They were able to use that shortcut and then later get their name changed to what they wanted (lol beave). So it's more then just a name change, it influenced sov mechanics "on the battlefield" and also broke a strict policy with years of enforcement behind it. The first one isn't that big a deal because it came with a penalty of them having to identify themselves with a name that sets young boys all a quiver, but the fact that they could then reverse it goes against all that EVE is about. Real consequences.

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Yes, one bad employee who was not reprimanded properly proves all of CCP is corrupt.

Yes, he should have been fired.

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Are you really this daft, or do you just role-play being coy in internet spaceships?

The T20 incident doesn't prove all of CCP is corrupt, but it does set a precedent that factions inside CCP like to help BoB. For them to then allow this to happen, knowing the past transgressions with the very same alliance is unfathomable from a PR perspective and unacceptable from a fair play perspective.

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Originally by: Zang Hoor

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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For those that are missing the clear cut issue here, unless I'm mistaken (always possible) we ended up having to fight under sov 3 conditions (jammers) in systems that wouldn't have had sov 3 yet if BoB hadn't used the shortcut taking over the Kenzoku alliance to get sov 1 immediately. They were able to use that shortcut and then later get their name changed to what they wanted (lol beave). So it's more then just a name change, it influenced sov mechanics "on the battlefield" and also broke a strict policy with years of enforcement behind it. The first one isn't that big a deal because it came with a penalty of them having to identify themselves with a name that sets young boys all a quiver, but the fact that they could then reverse it goes against all that EVE is about. Real consequences.

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so u leave game also now ??? if so can i have your stuff plz.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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Edited by: Crumplecorn on 24/03/2009 17:01:22

Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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So... what were we talking about?

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CCP favouring BoB again and the only responses supporting CCP so far being "I'm too new to know what's going on" and "I don't care so it's ok".

Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Honestly, all these people complaining about corruption need to vote with their wallets.

Why continue paying CCP to cheat against you?

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Because we'd rather see EVE fixed than do without?

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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Originally by: Sertan Deras

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Yes, one bad employee who was not reprimanded properly proves all of CCP is corrupt.

Yes, he should have been fired.

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Are you really this daft, or do you just role-play being coy in internet spaceships?

The T20 incident doesn't prove all of CCP is corrupt, but it does set a precedent that factions inside CCP like to help BoB. For them to then allow this to happen, knowing the past transgressions with the very same alliance is unfathomable from a PR perspective and unacceptable from a fair play perspective.

---

Now if you want to go down that road, I can point out some Dev Blog about demographics. They found out that actually, GOONSWARM has more CCP employee than Bob.

If you want to play Tin Foil hat, I can point out that Titans were nerfed because Goonswarm couldn't adapt.

What's even far more disturbing is that devs refuse to fix the broken mechanic of Alliance Disbanding by one person. That they allow such thing to be coded in the game when you have an almost impossibility of unlocking a corp-bpo that was locked down without the full vote of all the share holders. I don't get that.

Goons are the worse in Eve, theifs, greifers, they now play the bully to the whole Eve and acts like they are the good guys with the good intentions. Just look what happened to the Eve Cemitery! The super threadnought which point was to made Eve-Online and CCP look like fools. You're all but angels here.


My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

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Originally by: Corban Mah

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The only reason you are fighting in Delve is, beaucse you exploited poor game mechanics. So be happy that CPP didn't admit their failure and screwed over 3000 people.

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

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Originally by: Midge Mo'yb

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DUnno about you but i requested the M on my name to be capitalised last week and it was done with no hastle :S you might wanna ask nicely

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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Now if you want to go down that road, I can point out some Dev Blog about demographics. They found out that actually, GOONSWARM has more CCP employee than Bob.

If you want to play Tin Foil hat, I can point out that Titans were nerfed because Goonswarm couldn't adapt.

What's even far more disturbing is that devs refuse to fix the broken mechanic of Alliance Disbanding by one person. That they allow such thing to be coded in the game when you have an almost impossibility of unlocking a corp-bpo that was locked down without the full vote of all the share holders. I don't get that.

Goons are the worse in Eve, theifs, greifers, they now play the bully to the whole Eve and acts like they are the good guys with the good intentions. Just look what happened to the Eve Cemitery! The super threadnought which point was to made Eve-Online and CCP look like fools. You're all but angels here.


My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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That's funny because during the weekend, I saw Goonswarm doing POS bowling. And wait, what? It's legal because they have the POS's shield password.

I love uninformed people

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That's pretty ironic since you appear to be uninformed. Having the POS password allows us to legally get inside the shields. That means we can warp to the inside of a POS and sit there if we want. If ships get bumped out, well thats the bumping mechanic. Bowling before was exploiting a mechanic that allowed you into the shields long enough to bump ships out before being bounced out. The POS shield is meant to be a safety barrier UNLESS you have the password.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Edited by: LaVista Vista on 24/03/2009 15:23:23
Grimmi,

due all respect, I think this could have been solved a bit nicer.

So tell me if I'm wrong, but here's what happened:


1. BOB was compromised and disbanded after they eliminated a built-in safeguard, in exchange for convenience.
2. They joined an alt-alliance in order to keep sov.
3. They then petition for their name back. CCP gets a second opinion from your friendly neighborhood friends.
4. Months later, you decide that there's basis for letting an alt-alliance, which suddenly became a main-alliance, change their name.
5. You try to justify it by saying that they have done it to other alliances too. However it's the case that alliances have only been given another chance, if they misspelled the name or the like.

I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly why it was warranted, that an re-utilized alt-alliance suddenly could get a renaming.

I could personally not care less if even goonswarm had their name changed. However the response of yours lacks a bit. You haven't justified a whole lot, which I had hoped for. It's also obvious that people weren't pleased with it.

I hope that you will address the issue further.

Originally by: Vashan Tar

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When their alliance was disbanded using in game mechanics they had the option of either reforming a new alliance (losing sov) or joining an existing one (kenzoku) and losing their name.

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Well, they lost all their space. But still. I agree with this.

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Originally by: Crumplecorn

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It literally requires you to believe that they put a lot of thought into it because they were reluctant to help BoB, then suddenly without thinking helped BoB. What?

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Originally by: Corban Mah

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The only reason you are fighting in Delve is, beaucse you exploited poor game mechanics. So be happy that CPP didn't admit their failure and screwed over 3000 people.

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Originally by: Mathin Storm

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: thelung187

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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But remember perspective. CCP could have 'cheated' a lot more in the past few months for BoB. But they didn't.

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You're not seriously giving this as a rationalization are you?

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I'm just saying you all need to step back and look at the big picture.

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and the big picture is that they changed BoB's name and not any of the other alliances that petitioned for it. so why BoB and not the others?

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

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Quoted for the mother ****-ing truth.

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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So tell me exactly how that's not POS bowling?
Legally or illegally, bowling is pushing people out of the force field with big ships.

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Originally by: onymous

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Originally by: GM Grimmi

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We have previously changed names provided a petition was created within a reasonable timeframe and the situation warranted such action.

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I would like to hear your reasoning that "the situation warranted such action" and I'd like to hear some precedent too, since you're claiming it exists.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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If I were CCP I would've stripped the original name from the fake corp Goonswarm created and given it back to BoB.

Goonswarm has admitted that they took the name just to harass BoB. They also admitted to wardeccing every BoB corp for the sole purpose of preventing them from being able to form a new alliance. They are just annoyed because CCP is putting its foot down regarding their harassment tactics.

It's a basic principle that players should get to choose the name of their corporation or alliance. Goonswarm intentionally tried to thwart that by using game mechanics inappropriately. Wardecs are not for the purpose of blocking alliance creation. And neither is it appropriate to create a corp name and ticker just to deny it to someone else. This isn't a case where its questionable whether Goonswarm did these things for legitimate purposes. They unequivocally stated that the wardecs and corp creation were to harass BoB.

Also, everyone knows that the BoB alliance was not disbanded because BoB wanted to disband, it was because of a spy in the executor corp. BoB is still stuck with the tactical repercussions of that, losing all sov. The name change is purely cosmetic. For Goonswarm to act like a purely cosmetic name change means that CCP is somehow helping them win the game is completely asinine. It has no tactical repercussions at all. Everyone is in the same place as before. What Goonswarm considers "unfair" is that someone would dare impede their right to grief the hell out of everyone in EVE.

I am not aware of an alliance being renamed, but I know of a corp and multiple characters that have been renamed because they were created for the express purpose of trying to pass themselves off as other corps or players. It completely makes sense to me that an alliance would be allowed to rename when it was used solely because other groups griefed them into using it.

I am glad CCP doesn't allow Goonswarm to run roughshod over this game, implicitly condoning their griefing by ignoring it. Goonswarm just has sour grapes that their juvenile antics aren't allowed to run rampant.

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Originally by: Tobruk

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

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Quoted for the mother ****-ing truth.

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No Dumb **** were not mad about the name, WE ARE MAD CCP BROKE THE RULES FOR BOB, whatever the reason.

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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Goons are evil

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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If I were CCP I would've stripped the original name from the fake corp Goonswarm created and given it back to BoB.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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Goonswarm has admitted that they took the name just to harass BoB. They also admitted to wardeccing every BoB corp for the sole purpose of preventing them from being able to form a new alliance.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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It's a basic principle that players should get to choose the name of their corporation or alliance.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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Wardecs are not for the purpose of blocking alliance creation. And neither is it appropriate to create a corp name and ticker just to deny it to someone else. This isn't a case where its questionable whether Goonswarm did these things for legitimate purposes. They unequivocally stated that the wardecs and corp creation were to harass BoB.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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Also, everyone knows that the BoB alliance was not disbanded because BoB wanted to disband, it was because of a spy in the executor corp.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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BoB is still stuck with the tactical repercussions of that, losing all sov. The name change is purely cosmetic. For Goonswarm to act like a purely cosmetic name change means that CCP is somehow helping them win the game is completely asinine. It has no tactical repercussions at all. Everyone is in the same place as before.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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What Goonswarm considers "unfair" is that someone would dare impede their right to grief the hell out of everyone in EVE.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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I am not aware of an alliance being renamed, but I know of a corp and multiple characters that have been renamed because they were created for the express purpose of trying to pass themselves off as other corps or players. It completely makes sense to me that an alliance would be allowed to rename when it was used solely because other groups griefed them into using it.

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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I am glad CCP doesn't allow Goonswarm to run roughshod over this game, implicitly condoning their griefing by ignoring it. Goonswarm just has sour grapes that their juvenile antics aren't allowed to run rampant.

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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So tell me exactly how that's not POS bowling?
Legally or illegally, bowling is pushing people out of the force field with big ships.

---

It is POS bowling, which is now possible to do legitimately since warping to a POS without having the password stops you outside the POS, no longer rubber banding you inside to bump ships. That was not the case when BoB did it over and over for weeks. I bet that makes you happy that they got a taste of their own medicine except in a legal way right?

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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So tell me exactly how that's not POS bowling?
Legally or illegally, bowling is pushing people out of the force field with big ships.

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Originally by: Tobruk

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

---

Quoted for the mother ****-ing truth.

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No Dumb **** were not mad about the name, WE ARE MAD CCP BROKE THE RULES FOR BOB, whatever the reason.

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Originally by: Tobruk

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Only character names that are deemed as inappropriate are eligible for a possible name change. Names will not be changed for any other reason.

it took me 1.2 seconds to read the above...

If after 2 month of deliberation you still concluded that it was OK to rename kenzoku... the Grimmi, you are ****ing hopeless

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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I am glad CCP doesn't allow Goonswarm to run roughshod over this game, implicitly condoning their griefing by ignoring it. Goonswarm just has sour grapes that their juvenile antics aren't allowed to run rampant.

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Originally by: Tobruk

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Originally by: Kuar Z'thain

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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My point is, no side in this war is better than the other. And to be honest, it's funny to see you guys sooo ****ed off for a stupid name. You still won versus Band of Brothers, but that doesn't seem enough for you.

---

Quoted for the mother ****-ing truth.

---

No Dumb **** were not mad about the name, WE ARE MAD CCP BROKE THE RULES FOR BOB, whatever the reason.

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Originally by: Rodj Blake

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Originally by: Tobruk

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Only character names that are deemed as inappropriate are eligible for a possible name change. Names will not be changed for any other reason.

it took me 1.2 seconds to read the above...

If after 2 month of deliberation you still concluded that it was OK to rename kenzoku... the Grimmi, you are ****ing hopeless

---

Bolded the important part for you.

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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It's legal until too many people use it and CCP decide to ban the use of it. Just like the original POS bowling. When Bob used the old way of it, it was legal.

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Originally by: Montasque

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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I get it, you hate goons. We do some pretty crappy things, but we do it within the rules of the game.

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hahaha er ha

Originally by: Montasque

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Originally by: Professor Impossible

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I am glad CCP doesn't allow Goonswarm to run roughshod over this game, implicitly condoning their griefing by ignoring it. Goonswarm just has sour grapes that their juvenile antics aren't allowed to run rampant.

---

I get it, you hate goons. We do some pretty crappy things, but we do it within the rules of the game.

The fact is, this isnt about goons, so framing it as such is silly. This is about how there should be one set of rules for everyone in EvE, and that favoritism has to stop if CCP want any credibility in the eyes of the player base.

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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It's legal until too many people use it and CCP decide to ban the use of it. Just like the original POS bowling. When Bob used the old way of it, it was legal.

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No it wasn't it was deemed an exploit and the only reason they got away with it for awhile is because it was a NEW exploit.

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Originally by: Rodj Blake

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Originally by: Tobruk

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Only character names that are deemed as inappropriate are eligible for a possible name change. Names will not be changed for any other reason.

it took me 1.2 seconds to read the above...

If after 2 month of deliberation you still concluded that it was OK to rename kenzoku... the Grimmi, you are ****ing hopeless

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Bolded the important part for you.

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Originally by: Laura Rampart

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No it wasn't it was deemed an exploit and the only reason they got away with it for awhile is because it was a NEW exploit.

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