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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Valkorsia
Caldari Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:05:00 -
[241]
Congrats CCP on making Caldari worthless.
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Der Seben
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:06:00 -
[242]
CCP i really hate you for that.
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MMak
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:06:00 -
[243]
Who is that idiot? Who proposed it?! Close range on falcon without any tank? ****..
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:09:00 -
[244]
Why give a drone bay to the Rook (which it cant use at its supposed snipe range anyway) while giving no drone bay to the falcon (which it actually could use in its supposed brawler (lol) role).
Besides ALL recons have the same drone bay in both of their incarnations why make a difference here? Give Falcon and Rook the 25m¦ drone bay or actually better a 40m¦ one which is what all other recons at least have.
Also if you intend a "brawler" role for the falcon then maybe consider giving it an option to tank properly while being not completely useless in its ECM role?
The range advantage was its only real defense, now you are forcing it to fit tanking modules thereby reducing the available slots for ECM so this results in a DOUBLE NERF: The intended and justified range nerf and the probably not intended but nonetheless included ECM slot nerf due to need of tank modules.
So as weird as it may sound, the ship needs a bigger ECM Str boost then you proposed to still work in that close range brawler role.
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Letifer Deus
181st Legion W A S T E L A N D
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:09:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 24/03/2009 22:10:51
Originally by: Valkorsia Congrats CCP on making Caldari worthless.
Originally by: KingDiomedes why dont u just kill off caldari for good then you can give me all the wasted sp ive spent a year piling into caldari since they are now totally useless
This stuff hasn't even made it to SISI yet. STFU
Originally by: Amy Wang Why give a drone bay to the Rook (which it cant use at its supposed snipe range anyway)
My guess is to give it a chance of fending off an inty that has come out to tackle it. Either by destroying it with hobs/warriors or breaking lock with ecm drones. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
JgGravy
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:10:00 -
[246]
For every person on this complaining, there are 3-4 right now doing something in front of their computer i can't say in public.
I think it's a great change, having a Caldari character myself and toying with the ECM i enjoyed it. But it wasn't for me, sure you can get on the KM, by making said target useless. From a fight to win aspect, it's great. For a fight to fight aspect, it sucks. I've actually had luck with a Arazu/Lachies against falcons in the past. Stay cloaked longer than they do, when they hit their targets, you hit them back. Also by flying one of said ships you often become the target of the falcon pilot. Letting someone else in your fleet to get said target while you die.
One person said it great here, as every other race's recons got nerfed, the defense for the Caldari has gone out the window. Maybe had you boys stuck up for us, we would have been there. But now, it's your turn to bend over and enjoy.
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Jarne
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:14:00 -
[247]
I have the following proposal:
Change the close-range ship's bonus to jus affect multispectral jammers. A few reasons:
- It reduces range - It reduces maximum possible jamming strength while keeping average strength - It increases flexibility which is need when close-range, where you have to jam what is near you and can't select targets that easily - Having better working multispecs decreases the number of jammers needed, making it possible to fit scramblers or a shield tank
Also I find it strange that the long-range ship gets the damage bonus and the drone bay. I would find it logical to have that on the short range ship.
Scorp useful in RR-gangs would be great. - Success=Achievements/Expectations
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Spartan dax
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:15:00 -
[248]
Well Chronotis, since you guys finally figured out that SDA's Force the ECM ships to stock up on jammers and be usefull for nothing else but jamming and now have decided to change it, take a look at racials while you're at it.
By removing racials and introducing a multispec with slightly higher strength than today but lower than todays racials we'll see ECM ships with only 1-3 jammers instead of 4-5, giving the ECM ships far greater utility as well as being a huge nerf to the "ECM whiners club" as there is less jamming modules around.
It will also make ECM ships extremely sturdy tacklers as they will be with a 3-4 slot Shieldtank, 1 ECM, Point, Web and MWD. A ship to be feared when it drops next to you instead of as today where it just goes "pof".
New Falcon btw ECM Strength Bonus 25% per level 5% Shieldresistances per level Force reconstuff per level.
More agility, speed and maybe 85 more PG, 3/3 turret/launcher slot configuration instead of 2/2 and since it's supposed to be closer increase it's scan res as well slightly and give it a dronebay! A close range tackler with less dps and slower lock than a frig? That would be useless. Drone bay!
Love the proposed scorp but give it a 125m3 drone bandwidth. The Rook deserves a 10% missile velocity bonus so screw the dronebay.
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Algey
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:15:00 -
[249]
Awsome, so now falcons will be in close, doing no damage and getting insta popped.
Yep, you've certainly fixed ECM :D
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:16:00 -
[250]
What was I told when CCP nerfed the crap out of damps? Less QQ, adapt or die, can I has ur stuff?
We'll see how it turns out. Until then, please read your posts when the damp and nos nerf occurred and feel the other side again, like the last time ECM was nerfed. ---- zzzz ... zzzz ... zzzz |
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Momoha
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:17:00 -
[251]
Cool, now I'll never bother training up a Falcon.
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Zamolxiss
Amarr ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:20:00 -
[252]
Brilliant approach Chronotis! you have a cookie from me
A few suggestions
1'st. Falcon(being an Ishukone design) needs a third turret hardpoint and a Medium Hybrid Turret damage bonus, and should also mimic the Rook's small drone bay.
Reason - as a brawler, the new falcon should be able to dish out 'some' dps.. not excessive, but still.. the same way the Arazu, Rapier and Pilgrim do..
2'nd. Scorpion needs a Large Hybrid Turret damage bonus instead of the Cruise/Torp ROF one.. if the Missile ROF is kept tho, another missile launcher hardpoint shold be added.
Reason - 4 bonused Cruise launchers have t2 frig dps, and that's simply unresonable for a battleship, even an ewar oriented one.. also, damage bonused siege launchers do little in the way of tangible DPS, without a missile velocity bonus the actual range is a joke even with maxed skills, and as it stands right now for torps, without multiple bonuses(range, rof/damage, explosion velocity) they do lol damage even to bs's if they aren't static..
3'rd I know it's off the issue, but seeing you've finaly tackled the Caldari Recons i'd like to mention the Lachesis witch really needs it's 'split damage bonus/weapon sistems' revised, it's to far behind the Huginn and the Curse wothout shining at EWAR like the Rook... even if that means 5 dual bonused Launchers/Hybrid Turrets.. it doesn't need to suck this bad!
ps. If you get to read this Chronotis, feel free to claim a second cookie
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Horeta
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:22:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Horeta on 24/03/2009 22:25:19 missiles are really NOT sniper weapons. so switch roles of falcon and rook. falcon as longrange and rook as combat shortrange. so rook can at least use his drones.. and i don't think that 3 lows are enough for tank.
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Letifer Deus
181st Legion W A S T E L A N D
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:24:00 -
[254]
I'll say it again: scorp should get 10% shield HP bonus instead of 5% launcher RoF. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Athren Glasconju
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:26:00 -
[255]
ECM ships are always primaried, putting them close to the enemy, with the sniper fleet its supporting 50km behind it... would make it 100mil isk worth of pure fail.
The only thing caldari pilots are even worth doing in pvp is ECM, take that away, and only thing we good for now is semi-afk mission runners in ravens.
...or using our drakes as bait ships.
I could deal with the missle nerf... ...but this would put the final spear into the dying heart of the Caldari, whoes only purpose in pvp would be easy killmails for our enemies.
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Lucas Quaan
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:28:00 -
[256]
Originally by: musgrattio Change ECM optimal to a base of 50km, base falloff of 50km.
A Rook with these bonuses would be optimal
20% bonus to ECM strength per level 5% bonus to shield capacity per level 5% bonus to Heavy/Heavy Assault Missile Velocity per level 5% bonus to Heavy/Heavy Assault ROF per level
Falcon:
10% bonus to ECM optimal per level 10% bonus to ECM strength per level 96% to 100% Cloak bonus 10% bonus to ECM falloff per level
There you go, you have 2 ships that while nerfed, are still very, very useful.
+1
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:30:00 -
[257]
I TOLD YOU SO
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
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Horeta
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:34:00 -
[258]
and general idea of taking ships that are ALWAYS PRIMARY in short range is fail. noone use them and noone will use them. if you want them really at closerange, give them tanking ability like hics.
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Mistress Frome
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:39:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Horeta and general idea of taking ships that are ALWAYS PRIMARY in short range is fail. noone use them and noone will use them. if you want them really at closerange, give them tanking ability like hics.
Don't take it close range then. You have ~80km of falloff to take advantage of, why not use it? ---
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Pian Shu
SPORADIC MOVEMENT Cruor-Salax Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:41:00 -
[260]
Since we're voting ...
I like the proposed changes for the Rook and the Falcon. It makes sense to me that now an ECM pilot will have to choose between having a racial jammer for every possible encounter and fitting a tank so that they can survive.
I would like to see drone bays on both ships, though. All the other recons have at least 40 m3 drone bays. I do see why it would be overkill to give the ECM boats the ability to field 40 m3 of drones, maybe they could have bays of that size with only 25 m3 of bandwidth?
I fly Caldari ships and have been working my way up to recons, but I veered off course when I realized that all Falcon pilots essentially fly the same ship (racial rack + pilots choice, sensor booster and MWD in the mid slots, SDAs in the low slots and a cloak for the high slot). If you don't fly your Falcon in this configuration with 200 km warp-ins then you are ridiculed. How is that fun?
You didn't talk about the Kitsune, though. Any chance of replacing its optimal range bonus with something more useful? It doesn't have the targeting range necessary to use the bonus, and to be honest I'd rather have my small, fast ship closer to something with turrets than farther away. A signature radius bonus might be nice. Or perhaps a bonus to remote ECCM?
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Athren Glasconju
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:43:00 -
[261]
Actually, on seconds thoughts, I still dont like messing with the range of ecm modules themselves, BUT... I do like the idea of swapping the roles of the falcon with the rook, (allow the rook[non-cloaker] to get a 200km ecm range so its sitting with the sniper fleet its supporting[which wont be cloaked either]) but, only if you give the falcon some better tanking, so it can better support its other force recon counter-parts, like the rapier.
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Lijhal
FrEE d00M Fighters
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:44:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Lucas Quaan
Originally by: musgrattio Change ECM optimal to a base of 50km, base falloff of 50km.
A Rook with these bonuses would be optimal
20% bonus to ECM strength per level 5% bonus to shield capacity per level 5% bonus to Heavy/Heavy Assault Missile Velocity per level 5% bonus to Heavy/Heavy Assault ROF per level
Falcon:
10% bonus to ECM optimal per level 10% bonus to ECM strength per level 96% to 100% Cloak bonus 10% bonus to ECM falloff per level
There you go, you have 2 ships that while nerfed, are still very, very useful.
+1
this!
For the Scorp ... remove the ecm stuff .. add 5% Large hybrid RoF & 5% Large Hybrid dmg bonus on it .. add 2 turret hardpoints and 1000pg; 75cpu on it and we'll be fine
thx
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:45:00 -
[263]
Originally by: drapo I welcome the changes, long overdue. If there is anything that limits the "fun factor" in Eve, it's solo or small gangs against the overpowered falcon.
yes you see the solution to overpowered falcons was to make the blackbird and griffin and kitsune worthless and take away all character from the scorpion.
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Freyya
Eve Liberation Force Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:47:00 -
[264]
I have a better idea; Leave the falcon as it is but give the arazu a 200+ km scrambler range, give the pilgrim a 200Km tracking disruption (no not a neut one, that would make it overpowered :P) and the rapier a 200Km target paining range...ohh alright a 200km web range then.
There problem solved with purrrrfectly balanced recons. With only recons in mind then. All the whiners happy and all the buff other recons people happy too. Win Win no? ___________
NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth
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GuardianVale
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:47:00 -
[265]
hey CCP Chronotis you're a ****ing moron that doesn't know a god damn thing about your own game
peace
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:49:00 -
[266]
You know what's really hilarious, in a sad way? Everyone is complaining about the Falcon in solo and small-gang fights, the fleet pilots just insta-pop them with sniper battleships/HACs. And guess what these changes are going to do in a solo or small-gang fight: absolutely nothing. Falcon alts with the new Falcon will still perma-jam one or two targets just fine and ruin every "1v1" they get into, and people will still fill the forums with whine threads about it. -----------
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:51:00 -
[267]
What idiot thinks people will fly a short range instapop falcon with no tank?
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:53:00 -
[268]
Edited by: TraininVain on 24/03/2009 22:56:50 CCP chaps. I think you're roughly onto something with the range thing. I think in it's current state being 150+ off and working full effect is silly.
I think you're overcooking it with the Falcon though.
The Pilgrim is a poor point of reference. The Pilgrim has is generally used as a close range hit and run boat from what I can see.
The Falcon is just not that kind of boat. Whereas the Pilgrim has useful stuff to go in mid (stuff that helps it be at short range) and high slots (short ranged stuff) and a drone bay the Falcon is, by nature of Caldari e-war, a one trick pony... er .. spaceship.
It jams and that's all. The highs are generally utility slots. It's double bonused for one kind of e-war instead of being bonused for the same e-war as T1 AND getting a hefty range bonus on something else.
What's more you're ADDING jam strength to balance it (further?) gimping ECCM.
I honestly think looking into some secondary caldari e-war might be the way to go here.
No clue what it should be, but that's why you make the big bucks.
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:53:00 -
[269]
I used to fly a Scorpion in faction warfare. In those days we had a ton of people flying around at extreme range, trying to cause us various kinds of trouble from out there (mostly sniping our support ships).
I used the range of the Scorp to mess up their fun. It was awesome in that role, and a lot more survivable than a Falcon or a Blackbird would have been. Specifically I needed the toughness to keep my expensive ECM range rigs alive. ;-)
I don't have any problem with turning the Scorp into a brawler, but I don't think it should lose all its range bonuses. Shorten the range, sure. But don't kill it entirely. Sometimes it's nice to have a sturdy ship that can reach all the way out to some sniper and turn him off.
It's important to remember that ships sometimes have roles (fleet protection, area denial) that don't involve killing things. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.24 22:55:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Jack Gates "ecm brawlers"
aka "explosion"
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